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HOMEBREW Digest #1689
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/03/25 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1689 Sat 25 March 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Recipe needed for Maibock ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
Re: Pressure brewing ("Joseph E. Santos")
DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt and Clarity (Steve Zabarnick)
Re: Orange Peel (Sean C. Cox)
Racking problems ("Lee C. Bussy")
Beer and Biotechnology (TPuskar)
RE: Reno Brewpubs (Jim Dipalma)
Homegrown Hops and AA (Russell Mast)
Hydroponic Hops? (Russell Mast)
Wit, phenols and other goodies (Jim Busch)
Easy Method for Purging O2 (Philip Hofstrand)
Why rack inverted carboy? (Eric Peters (919) 405-3675)
Pre-cooking ingredients (MHANSEN)
A few words on gelatin (Jeff Guillet)
Mead inquiry ("Christopher D. Dudley")
Racking (berkun@decwet.enet.dec.com)
counterflow chillers (Ronald Moucka)
Pseudo-beer engine (Geoff Scott)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 7:35:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <GONTAREK@FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV>
Subject: Recipe needed for Maibock
Hello everyone! I was hoping that someone could help me out with a recipe
for a (tried and true) Maibock. I can't seem to find a good recipe in
any of the usual books. TIA.
By the way, with all of this talk about milling wheat, does anyone
know if I can use my PhillMill to crush wheat? Will it screw up the
rollers?
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery
Baltimore, MD
gontarek@fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:20:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos@WPI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pressure brewing
MnMGuy@aol.com asks:
>...something about submerging beer in water to carbonate....Anybody know
>how many psi one atmosphere is? What psi is carbonated beer?
I think the difficulty here is with the word 'carbonation'. If
you placed the beer at a depth of ninety feet(3 atmospheres) the air
would go into solution at a higher concentration but the beer would *NOT*
be carbonated. That is, unless you sealed it and brought it to the surface.
It would then be carbonated to 2 atmospheres.
3 atm @ depth - 1 atm @ surface = 2 atm air in solution
1 atmosphere = 14.696 psia (absolute pressure)
= 101.325 kPa (kilopascals absolute)
The carbonation level in beverages is measured in psig that is
pounds per square inch guage. This is a measurement of pressure in
relationship to a reference pressure. At 1 atm a container of liquid will
absorb as much as the 14.7 psi of atm allows but if you measured the
guage pressure the reading would be 0 because there is no differential
pressure.
side note:
As a student of Mechanical Engineering I am fairly confident
these facts hold true, but in my previous life I had the opportunity to
have not only a job but an adventure. I was a qualified Navy Diver. As
such I did some pretty interesting things which included a research
project to expand the decompression limits for divers. I had to spend 6
hours in a dry dive chamber pressurized to an equivalent of 40 feet of
sea pressure. 6 hours of alternately riding an exercise bike and sitting
makes one hungry so we had some fast food brought in through an air lock
the burgers were great but without thinking I ordered a large coke. I
soon realized my error with the first sip *completely FLAT*. This
experience proves the above theories.
The actual pressure of my beers can't be determined through the
caps or in a glass so I can't help you there.
DR J
(Just another happy homebrewer!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:43:23 -0500
From: steve@snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt and Clarity
If noticed that my beers made from DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt tend to have
clarity problems. Other malts I've used with the same process have not
shown this problem (Klages and M&F Pale Ale). I use a single-step infusion
mash at 150-155 F. The initial runnings from the sparge appear quite cloudy
despite significant recirculation. George Fix does not mention clarity
issues for this malt in his BT article on Belgian grains. Have others
encountered this clarity problem?
Also, an Oktoberfest made with D-C Pilsner and Munich malts came out
brilliantly clear. What is strange about the Pale Ale?
Steve Zabarnick
steve@snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil
Dayton, OH
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:17:43 EST
From: scox@factset.com (Sean C. Cox)
Subject: Re: Orange Peel
Aaron Shaw wrote about Orange Peel:
> do not use oranges that are "orange", because they
> have been dyed for appearance.
=Spencer Thomas replied:
=As far as I know, this is not true. Do you have real evidence to back
=up this statement?
My in-laws (just outside Orlando) have a couple orange trees in their
backyard which demonstrate that both of you are right :-)
Their Valencia (juicing orange) has generally yellow, lightly orange
fruits, whereas their Navel (eating orange) is pretty orange. The only thing
they put on their trees is water. :-)
Having seen (& picked) them for a couple years, it seems to me that
it's a varietal trait. However, I wouldn't put it past someone with lots of
Valencias to dye them orange and sell them as eating oranges (just look what
some people call beer!).
--Sean
=-=-= Sean Cox =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= FactSet Data Systems =-=-=
=-=-= scox@factset.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 1 Greenwich Plaza =-=-=
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Greenwich, CT 06830 =-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:00:59 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb@southwind.net>
Subject: Racking problems
Gregory J Egle in what I guess was a reply to another post that I
didn't read posts this:
Whenever I rack beer from one carboy to another I run into the
same problem.Right where the hose meets the racking cane, I get
a diminished flow rate. Sometimes just a trickle. It seems like
reason for this is the difference in inside diameter between
I have found that the pressure drop created during racking forces
dissolved CO2 out of suspension and it will collect right there where
the tube meets the cane. This sometimes gets bad enough to break the
syphon.
I just pinch the tube where it meets the cane and it disturbs the
flow enough to wash the bubble downstream.
Hope that helps some or at least I read the question right.
- --
-Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... |
leeb@southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! |
Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb |
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:14:34 -0500
From: TPuskar@aol.com
Subject: Beer and Biotechnology
This is for the heavy duty science types in the crowd. There's an
interesting article in the March 1995 issue of Bio/Technology magazine
entitled "What's Brewing in Barley Biotechnology." It has an interesting
overview of the brewing process as it relates to the biochemistry of our
favorite grain.
The article claims the overall USA market for barley as a raw commodity is
*$1 billion* a year and the brewing industry has 2.7 million employees!
Wonder if they counted all of us homebrewers? <g>
Apologies for the sort of non-beer related post. Thought some of the
biotechies might be interested.
Tom Puskar
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:33:09 EST
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Reno Brewpubs
Hi All,
In HBD#1688, Jeff Nielsen writes about high FGs:
>I'm having trouble attaining the appropriate final gravities since I switched
>to using Cornelious kegs as fermenters.
>I've read here in the past that the geometry of these kegs
>aren't really optimum.
Some time ago, George Fix wrote an article regarding the aspect ratio
of fermenters (the ratio of height to diameter), and the effects of the
aspect ratio on fermentation. I can't quite recall where I read this
article, nor do I have it on hand. What I do recall is that the article
said the "ideal situation" is when the aspect ratio is 1:1 or less, and
that it should not exceed 2:1. The aspect ratio of Corny kegs is a little
over 3:1, I think, the ball lock kegs I have are 9" in diameter and ~28"
in height.
As I recall, the article went on to state that elevated levels of
diacetyl and higher than normal FGs were observed when using taller,
narrower fermenters versus short, squat ones. A friend of mine who's a
proficient lager brewer experienced those same two problems when he
switched to fermenting in Cornys about a year ago. The problems disappeared
when he went back to using 6.5 gallon carboys.
Jeff, I'd suggest giving Fix's article a read, but FWIW I think the high
FGs you are seeing are related to fermenter geometry.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma@sky.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:51:27 CST
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Homegrown Hops and AA
According to a book I have on homegrowing hops, there's virtually no practical
way to determine your AA. If you know someone who grows hops professionally,
you might be able to get a bulk rate on lab work. You could also expiriment
with it. The book says that homegrown hops are probably best used for
finishing hops if you're concerned about accuracy. I'd imagine that good lab
work on hops would be too expensive to be worth it for a homebrewer, but if I'm
wrong, that's great.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:10:57 CST
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Hydroponic Hops?
I've missed about a year of HBD, so maybe this is an old discussion, but has
anyone tried to grow hops indoors hydroponically? Does anyone have any
information about whether or houw this could be done? Thanks,
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:22:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Wit, phenols and other goodies
Spencer says:
<* At the SOB, Celis said his beer has (for spices) bitter orange peel,
<coriander, and sweet orange peel. Nothing else! This is apparently
<the most definite he'd ever been on the topic. He refused to
<elaborate on the souring, saying something like "that's the tricky
<part." (I'm definitely paraphrasing here.)
Ive been looking into this. I was shocked to hear Pierre say he
used sweet orange in the Wit. Since I am brewing the AHA conference
beer, and I am using sweet orange, I had a search to find it. I have
this second-hand, but I have no reason to disbelieve it: Peter Camps
said he only uses bitter orange. Can someone near Austin, or a
Celis visitor confirm this?
I did end up getting Sweet Orange from the Frozen Wort. It came in
little pieces, like what you find at health food and spice shops. Ill
be using it soon, so I dont have results yet. I have heard that
it will (is?) for sale at the Wort. It tastes a bit orangey, then
becomes more bitter as it dissolves. My original hand imported
sweet peel was a different looking product, but they could be the
same thing.
I said:
<.False bottoms are sold in many shops now. Be sure to get perf sheet SS.
I should have said: false bottoms are sold at the Brewers Wharehouse in
Seattle and at East Coast Brewing Supply, NYC.
< Saturation for O2 in water at around room temperature is on the order
<of 10 ppm.
This is higher than the empirically determined values by Dr. Fix. It
will be in his next book, from what I hear.
<i have just begun fermenting 10-15 gallon batches and am wondering how often
<i should rack the beer off of the sediment- so far i am just following
<Dave Miller's rec. as if i had started with a large starter- ie when the
<bubbling drops to @ every 30 seconds i rack- should i rack again? or
<earlier?
<
Do the same thing you would do in a 5 gal ferment. For ale, a single or
two step ferment is fine. Lagers should be racked after primary.
<Dave Draper's post not too long ago about making American
<Wheat Beers (he doesn't like phenolics) and Jim Busch's
<reply (yuk!) made me wonder where these preferences come
<from. I'm in Dave's camp, can't stand the phenolics.
< So - are the phenolic flavor lovers former paste eaters?
I can assure you I have never been a paste eater! My love of Weizens
is a direct consequence of drinking so many good German versions.
About copper racking canes. I made one years ago and still use it.
I took 1/2 " soft copper and bent it into a large version of a
homebrew shop cane. Soldered a copper end cap to it, workd great for
boil racking or fermenter racking.
FWIW, hop shoots are up in Maryland.
Jim Busch
Colesville, Md
busch@mews.gsfc.nasa.gov
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:06:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Philip Hofstrand <philiph@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Easy Method for Purging O2
Greetings, Fellow Brewers:
Having benefited from much that is posted here, I thought I'd try
to repay the favor:
Those of you without a CO2 tank (yet) may want to give this technique a
try. I've used it for two batches with no problems. When racking to the
secondary, I was concerned about potentially oxidizing my wort, and yet
dropping a hose all the way into the carboy didn't appeal to me for
sanitation reasons. My work-around for this is to get dry ice pellets from
our lab, and drop a few into the empty secondary before racking. Dry ice
can be found at grocery stores (meat or seafood counter), and is fairly
cheap. However, most of them sell it as slabs, so you'll need to break it
up with a hammer. Keep it in the wrapper while hammering to avoid
contamination. Let the pellets dissolve (or sublimate, if you're picky
about your science) completely, and you should have an O2-free carboy to
rack into. A good way to verify this is to carefully lower a long kitchen
match into the carboy: the flame will go out when the CO2 layer is reached.
Simple. Well, hope that's useful to some of you.
Until next time,
Phil
- --
Philip Hofstrand (philiph@u.washington.edu)
"In taberna quando sumus, non curamus quid sit humus"
"When we are in the tavern, we spare no thought for the grave"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:36:16 EST
From: epeters@edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters (919) 405-3675)
Subject: Why rack inverted carboy?
In HBD 1688 Mark Prazer writes:
>
>In HBD 1680, Bob Christopher <oldfogy@svpal.org> wrote:
>|>
>|> As I mentioned before... With 2 "Fermentaps" you can transfer from
primary
>|> carboy to your secondary carboy in an oxygen-free atmosphere and
lose very
>|> little of your precious brew.
>|>
>Correct. But you do NOT need 2 Fermentaps to do this.
>
>Try this method. During active fermentation (in the primary w/ the
>Fermentap), sanitize your secondary carboy. Then take the exhaust
hose
>(the one connected to the racking cane) and put it in the secondary
>carboy "filling" it with CO2. When filled (an hour maybe?), pop an
>air lock on it and keep it around for the next week when you rack to
>it. Then remove the Fermentap from the primary, clean it, put it in
>the secondary, invert, etc. I would guesstimate that this method is
>over 95% O2 free and about $30 cheaper than buying 2 Fermentaps.
>
My brother and I have fermented two hundred gallons in inverted
carboys and have *never* racked our beer. Instead of removing
your beer from the break/trub/sediment, remove the sediment
from your beer. That is the beauty of inverted carboy fermentation,
primary and secondary ferments in one vessel, no racking, no
siphoning, no worries. Fill your carboy as usual. Pitch your
yeast, and invert. Every day or so, depending on how you feel,
drain your sediment. When fermentation is complete, drain directly
into your keg. If you bottle your beer, prime in the carboy,
remove it from the stand to mix properly, return it to the stand,
attach your filler, and go man go.
We all know there's no free lunch. The inverted carboy does have
a limitation. Sediment will collect on the shoulder without
falling into the neck where it can be drained. This is when your
carboy stand becomes critical. Our stand holds four carboys. Each
carboy rests on a "Lazy Susan" bearing (this has been discussed
at length recently by numerous people, including my brother, hope
I'm not beating a dead horse.) When it comes time to drain your
sediment, give the carboy a series of rapid twists on its bearing
and matter resting on the shoulders will fall into the neck. The
amount of twisting neccessary will depend on what yeast you use
and when you last twisted it.
Fermentap vs. Brewcap
Before I say anything, let me state that I have not seen a
Fermentap in person and am not fully qualified to be very
critical of it. From what I've seen in its advertisements,
the stand does not appear to facilitate this rotational twist
movement that I speak of (I may be wrong and if so, I apologize
for spreading misinformation,) and may not be worth the extra
money paid for it. The Brewcap is less expensive, easy to
assemble, and simple to use. However, the Brewcap requires
you to build a stand, which may be a draw back or a good thing,
depending on who you are. The drain tube and valve on the
Brewcap are a small diameter and can clog, especially of you
get hop pieces in the fermenter. We don't use pellet hops
(thats a different can o'worms,) and don't get hop peices in
our fermenters.
Is inverted carboy fermentation *really* easier? I strongly
think so, but I know some brewers who disagree. It only takes
a couple seconds to drain sediment and just a little longer to
twist it into the neck. We drain a few times during early
fermentation to remove cold break (debatable if neccessary),
then wait a few days until fermentation slows and yeast falls
rapidly before removing sediment on a near daily basis until
fermentation stops. Daily sounds like a lot but its a good
opportunity to check for crickets in the bubblers and do a
little bonding with your beer, quality time. A good trick is
to ferment at your brother's house and make him do all the
work :-)
We have never dry-hopped in an inverted carboy. Can anyone
share their experiences.
I am not affiliated with the Fermentap or the Brewcap or any
other brewing item in any way, shape, or form.
Eric Peters
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:57:53 -0600
From: MHANSEN@ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject: Pre-cooking ingredients
Hey CW (Collective Wisdom),
The thread on Wit (NOT Wit!) bier and the subsequent responses of
people precooking their unmalted wheat or flaked wheat (or any
other grain, for that matter) brings up a question. At what temp and for
how long do you cook them? After they are cooked do you just proceed
with your usual mashing procedure (eg. protein rest, saccharification,
mash-out) or would your mashing process change somewhat?
FWIW, I am not a paste-eater and I love the phenolics in weizen :-)
Thanks and brew on,
Mike (michael-d-hansen@uiowa.edu)
- Do not smoke grains. It makes you cough :-) -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:21:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet@lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet)
Subject: A few words on gelatin
After over a year of brewing all sorts of different styles, I've decided
to start brewing beers I really *like* . My latest batch is "Dad's
Birthday Brown" and I may say it's probably the best beer I've ever
made. It is also the first beer I've made where I used gelatin for
clearing. It definitely will not be my last.
I added one package of Knox unflavored gelatin to 1 cup of warm/hottish
water, dissolved it thoroughly, and poured it into my secondary. Three
days later I bottled. The gelatin cleared the beer beautifully and had
the added benefit of making the sediment in the carboy "stick" to the
bottom of it. I carried the carboy from the kitchen to the garage
without disturbing the sediment at all. I haven't noticed *any*
discernible off taste due to the gelatin.
This leads me to the following conclusion: Irish Moss is dead,
*GELATIN* is God.
-=Jeff=- Internet: jeff.guillet@lcabin.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:41:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher D. Dudley" <CNDUDLEYC@cscacs.csc.vsc.edu>
Subject: Mead inquiry
Hello all!
I was wondering if anyone could give me ANY info on mead? I am very
interested in it but have never tried it. It sounds quite yummy but I don't
know where I can get it. I am also interested in brewing it once I find
out if I like it. Thank you for your help!!!
Christopher
!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!
Christopher Dudley----------------------------------------Assistant Vax Manager
cndudleyc@cscacs.csc.vsc.edu----------------------------Castleton State College
Where in a brook
With a hook,
Or a lake,
Fish we take;
There we sit,
For a bit,
Till we fish entangle.
(from The Compleat Angler)
!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:04:19 PST
From: berkun@decwet.enet.dec.com <berkun@decwet.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Racking
There seem to be a number of siphon impaired people on the net lately.
Personally I don't have this problem, having spent 15 years with tropical
fish.
1. I dry hop in a 5 gallon carboy with whole hops. The hops float, the
racking cane goes to the bottom, no hops in cane, no problem. Stay with
whole hops.
2. I siphon right out of my boiling kettle into the carboy. I use a copper
racking cane (to answer another recently asked question). I made this out of
left over copper tubing from my immersion chiller. I sanitize it by dipping
one end in iodophor or chlorine solution and then (after rinsing) sticking
the other end in the boiling wort at the same time I stick in the immersion
cooler. Chemical sanitize the one end, boil sanitize the other. Don't know
if it's legit, but it works. I siphon through a copper scrubber and I've
never had a problem with it stuffing up. It does sometimes fall off the end,
but I just jab the tube back into it.
I also siphon thru a short piece of copper with holes in it. This produces
the famed Venturi effect, aerating my wort at the same time. No carboy
dances.
3. I start the siphon by filling the hose with water. A little tap water
never hurt anyone (well...rarely).
4. If your hose is bending where it meets the racking cane it will impede the
flow. Just take care to keep that area straight and use a more gentle curve
to reach whereever you're going to.
Have fun. There is no gravity, the earth sucks.
Ken Berkun
Seattle
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:42:47 GMT
From: rmoucka@omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Subject: counterflow chillers
Brewers,
A quick question about counterflow chillers. A few weeks
ago someone asked about the copper coiled in a large
diameter PVC type, rather than the garden hose type. I
think the PVC style would fit my "Brew Magic" type brewing
system I'm putting together better than the hose. Sorry I
didn't write the poster's address down. Has anyone tried
this version? Are they harder to make? Less/more
efficient? I'm picturing the hot wort flowing from the
kettle, through a hop back, through the chiller, and into
the fermenter. Ideas? Warnings? Cautions?
Many TIA
Ron
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:45:08 -0500
From: gscott@io.org (Geoff Scott)
Subject: Pseudo-beer engine
Well all this beer engine / sparkler discussion got me thinking. The
standard taps on my beer fridge don't do my UK styles justice. I liked
Bob's article in Zymurgy because it combined elements of the traditional
beer engine with current homebrew set-ups. I'm pretty well satisfied with
"artificial" CO2 but I liked the idea of forcing the beer through small
orifices to create smaller bubbles in the head. I considered adding a
third tap to my fridge following Bob's design but my fridge only holds two
kegs and I wanted to keep the existing (expensive) taps in service. As an
experiment I drilled a 1/16th inch hole in a dime sized disk of stainless.
I put the disk in the connection between the shank of the tap and the beer
line from the keg. While this really slows down the pouring, it creates
the small bubbles I was looking for. Give it a try! Since my first
attempt worked, I didn't experiment with hole sizes or number of holes - of
course YMMV.
regards,
Geoff Scott
gscott@io.org
Brewing page http://www.io.org/~gscott
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1689, 03/25/95
*************************************
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