Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1665
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/02/25 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1665 Sat 25 February 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
hop storage ("Charles S. Jackson")
Hopping beer (JAH)
Re: B-Brite (Jim Ancona)
secondhand bottling equipment needed (Scott_Lutke)
Brewpubs??? (Schwab_Bryan)
Yeast vs PSI ? (molloy)
moosebrew and IBU (SnowMS_at_CNTORSSA)
Counter flow chiller question (smtplink!guym)
Beer quality - homebrew vs. commercial ("Richard T. Whitney")
Extraction Rate Help (Kirk R Fleming)
Belgian White ("BARRON, GRAHAM LARS")
Phil's Philler/Siphoning/Yeast Nutrient (Jeff Hewit)
Playing with Grolsch bottles (Dmitry Kagansky)
AHA and Norm Pyle (" Patrick G. Babcock")
Recipe Info... (Guy Mason)
A few questions ("Keith Royster")
cheap counter-flow chiller ("Keith Royster")
IBU's/Gott/Judging $.02 (Mark Ohlstrom)
Recommendations for a good scale (Dan Wood)
(WHITE ZOMBIE)
HSA: a religious war? (Michael Sharp)
testing a yeast starter (Gary A. Meier)
Re: Beer line pressure drop (David S. Burlage)
skimming & dropping ("Babinec, Tony")
Request for Competion Info (Ken Schroeder)
dry hopping... (abaucom)
Club only Mega-brew-a-thon! (Richard B. Webb)
Modified Malt and Balling (Waldon, Tracy )
Fifth Annual March Mashfest (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
AHA IBUs/B-Brite/Great Western/dropping != racking (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
******************************************************************
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 12:49:11 CST
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson@ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject: hop storage
Norm, in response to Fred Waltman, said:
>
>Bingo! If you are buying your hops from a local homebrew store, I'd ask a
>LOT of questions: Who do you buy your hops from? Do you separate them
>yourselves into 1 oz. packages? How is this done? Do you use O2 barrier
>packaging? Does your supplier? How are they stored? etc. etc. etc.
In a year of reading the digest I have not seen a discussion of the
proper/best way to store hops. I have taken to using brown jars (ovaltine
works nicely), purging w/co2 and freezing. Seemed to be a reasonable
alternative to the cost of buying a heat sealer, o2 impermeable bags and some
nitrogen. I do know that the last hops I bought were scooped out of a regular
plastic bag that was retrieved from the refrigerator and closed with a
twist-tie. The store owner told that he had just gotten his hops a few days
ago and so I figger'd that there couldn't have been too much decrement yet.
Anyway it would be nice to see/hear how other keep their hops.
Steve (from Alabama and *NOT* rubbing it in)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
The Alabama Outlaw
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 14:42:11 -0500 (EST)
From: JAH@cvlab.harvard.edu
Subject: Hopping beer
Dear HBDers:
A friend of mine, without HBD access, recently brewed and kegged a batch
of ale using his left-over hops. Apparently, the hops were no good, as the
resultant beer has neither hop aroma nor bitterness. Is there any way to hop
finished beer and save this batch? Private e-mail is o.k.
TIA
Justin Haber
jah@cvlab.harvard.edu
------------------------------
Date: 21 Feb 95 15:00:55 EDT
From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona.DBS@dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: B-Brite
In HBD 1663, Patrick G. Babcock (USFMCHQL@IBMMAIL) writes:
> -=> Matt K asks about B-Brite...
>
>In its less costly form, B-Brite is known as Arm & Hammer Super Washing Form.
>Sodium Carbonate, for the most part.
Not quite. I believe B-Brite is mostly sodium percarbonate, which releases
oxygen when dissolved in water. So it sanitizes, as well as cleans. Sodium
Carbonate (Washing Soda) is a good cleaner, but not a sanitizer.
Jim Ancona
janco@dbsoftware.com
jpa@iii.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 15:26 EST
From: Scott_Lutke@vos.stratus.com
Subject: secondhand bottling equipment needed
Hi Group,
Does anybody have any knowledge of secondhand bottling line equipment
ect... I now do 4 bottles at a time taking 2.5 minutes per case.
Im opening a small micro and am interested in increasing my output.
If you know of any equipment, you can E-mail me at:
Scott_Lutke@vos.stratus.com
Thanks, Scott (Massachusetts)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:38:00 CST
From: Schwab_Bryan@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Brewpubs???
Greetings to one and all!! I am need of some assistance from those of
you within the San Jose, Sunnyvale Ca area. Are there any good Brewpubs
out there? I'll be within that area the end of this month and I do not
want to go thirsty!
Thanks!
Bryan Schwab_Bryan @lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil}:ddn:navy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 16:29:40 -0500
From: molloy@tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: Yeast vs PSI ?
Papazian <and I don't quote> tells about yeast serviving temperature changes
ok but not pressure or loss of very well. I am wondering about the Wyeast
as it has much pressure inside the package at the time it is ready to use.
Could their be any ill effect on the the yeast from this? I am also
wondering if K. Flemings yeasties exploded due to the change in pressure.
I just pitched some Wyeast Sunday that did not go full term in the package
and it seemed to perform better than other times when the package was
buldging.
PS. The yeast went in my Amber ale, thanks for everyones input on Amber.
BELL'S RULES Kzoo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 16:38:14 EST
From: SnowMS_at_CNTORSSA@CCIP.PERKIN-ELMER.COM
Subject: moosebrew and IBU
Les Wood asks for info on Moosehead beer. I am going to assume you
are asking about their lager since they don't export Ale (IMHO their
best product). I would recommend a mash using Harrington( 2-Row) from
Canadian Malting(try 70-75%) and the remaining 25-30% Corn(flaked
maize). Use German Hops(Low Alpha,noble)for bittering (try for 13-15
IBU) and same for aroma/flavour. For yeast that is a different story,
I have used the above with Yeast Lab's Canadian Ale (Labbatt's ?) with
excellent results.
I would like to comment on hop utilization, I have analyzed approx.
one dozen beer for BU's(done by a brewery) and they are quite varied
from the expected formula. I believe that it is not possible to have a
formula that will work for everyone in all cases. An example if one
looks at the second edition of Malting and Brewing Science, Table 9.10
(p288)shows the "effects of "standing" infusion mash...and derived
beers". This table shows that the bitterness can vary from 30 to
22(mg/l). The temperatures varied from 57 to 65.5 C. The explanation
was "At lower temperatures the alteration in the Lundin fraction
showed that proteolysis was more complete. This was also reflected by
a higher hop utilization, probably due to the reduced break caused by
the presence of lesser quantities of complex nitrogenous substances to
bring down the bittering substances".
This type of trend is also shown in Table 9.14(p298). The
bitterness of the beer varied from 23-24(mg/l for 100% Malt) to 28-30
(mg/l for 50% Malt, 50% adjuncts(Wheat flour, Maize, Rice flakes).
Miles in the Maritimes Canada.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:23:15 MDT
From: exabyte!smtplink!guym@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Counter flow chiller question
I see a general agreement in the Digest that chiller tubing (copper) should
be 3/8". My question is, 3/8" i.d. or o.d.? I'm specifically interested
in which one is needed for the Phillchill Phittings as I ordered a set of
these last week. It says that 25' of 3/8" copper tubing is needed but,
again, doesn't specify inner or outer diameter. I was in Home Depot over
the weekend with the intention of buying the tubing but they carried both
and I passed. My gut tells me I need 3/8" o.d. but I wasn't sure enough to
make the purchase.
Also, I have a half-barrel converted keg brew kettle I bought from BCI that
I would like to put a spigot of some sort on like the Sabco kettle. I know
that theirs has a welded nipple but I wondered if one couldn't attach a
1/2" brass ball valve simply using a fiber washer (or no washer) like on
the Easymasher. Perhaps the stainless steel is too rigid to allow for a
good seal in this fashion? Any input would be appreciated - email is fine.
--
Guy McConnell \/ Exabyte Corp. /\ Huntersville, NC \/ guym@exabyte.com
(Hey Norm, does "Huntersville" in the sig line count? We DO have Dilworth
Brewing Company down the street in Shah-lotte.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 21:16:00 PST
From: "Richard T. Whitney" <pp000171@interramp.com>
Subject: Beer quality - homebrew vs. commercial
Several questions for those of you out there with much more homebrewing
experience than I.
1) How does the "best" homebrew compare with the the "best" commercial beer?
"Best" is difficult to determine, but can any generalizations be made with
respect to the beer produced by homebrewers versus commercial brewers, once
a reasonably high level of competence is attained?
2) How do the raw materials used by commercial brewers differ from those
used by commercial (micro) brewers? I would imagine that the malt is quite
similar, the yeast more varied, and have no idea about the hops.
3) Finally, how much of largescale brewing is art vs. engineering, or asked
another way, could many other micro breweries produce a copy of, say an
Anchor Liberty Ale or a SN Celebration Ale, if it were in their business
model to produce such a product? If money was no object, and a brewery wanted
to produce a five star beer, using the best ingredients and state of the art
equipment, could most brewers pull it off or are there still lots of
intangibles left which translate into a disparity of results.
Thanks for any insights into these questions.
Rich Whitney
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 19:18:22 -0700
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Extraction Rate Help
RE: HBD #1663
>From: jeff@neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
>Subject: Extraction rte help!
>I ended up with an OG of 1.047...at LEAST 15 pts lower than I wanted
You didn't say how much wort you produced, but from your msg I figured
you used a total of about 7.5 gal then boiled for an hour. So, just to
get an idea of how 'bad' you did, I used 6 gal as your final yield. That
figure, along with a back of the envelope yield rate of 30 pts*gal/lb
gave me:
(30 pts*gal/lb)*(9 lb/6 gal) = 45 pts
If you reduced to 5 gal then computed yield would be 54. In all it
looks pretty predictable to me. The figure of 30 pts*gal/lb is just a
number I find to be what folks actually GET when they brew this way,
and it often provides a good estimate.
My point here is: *take good notes*. It just doesn't matter what anyone
else gets with their brewing, except as a goal to shoot for. What I
*think* you care about is knowing ahead of time what to expect--you can
only do that with careful notetaking.
There are other factors here as well (many), one of which is your
thermometer--for example, we have a digital handheld unit that MAY be
off by as much as 4F too high--don't know yet. If you are using one
that's off by that much, percent of fermentables in the final product
may be a big surprise (in either direction, depending on the thermometer
error). Again, it's not yield per se, but repeatability that I think
you're after.
Wow--I guest that was about $.08 worth.
Kirk R Fleming
-flemingkr@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil
-BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 21:37:53 EST
From: "BARRON, GRAHAM LARS" <GBARRON@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Belgian White
Dear HBDers,
This is my first time using the HBD, and I must give kudos to
everyone. This is indeed one of the most helpful resources for
homebrewers, especially novices such as myself.
Anyway, I'm interested in brewing an extract beer along the lines
of Celis White in the near future. I know I could never achieve a beer
that complex or good using extracts, but I'd like to give it a try.
I have obtained a couple of "Celis-alike" recipes from friends, but I
thought I would ask for any suggestions from you veterans out there.
There is a Belgian White recipe in the latest issue of ZYMURGY, but
it is a mash or partial mash recipe. If anyone has any suggestions
about possible extract substitutions in that recipe, I would also be
interested. Please e-mail me. Anything helps! Thanks in advance to
everybody and keep up the good conversation.
Graham L. Barron
gbarron@music.cc.uga.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:32:15 -0500
From: jhewit@freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Phil's Philler/Siphoning/Yeast Nutrient
PHIL'S PHILLER
I just used my new Phil's Philler for the phirst (sorry, I had
to do that once) time, and I think it's great. It's made of
brass, and fills bottles faster than my plastic filler. I
didn't bother with a time trial, but I know it's faster. It's
also easy to set the level in the bottle without spilling as
much as before. They cost about $14 (won't make the Frugal
Brewer FAQ), and are in many homebrew catalogs.
SIPHONING
There's been a lot of talk lately, here and especially on RCB,
about siphoning. There're various methods for filling tubes,
and for blowing and sucking. One thing I've thought of, but
haven't seen, is flexible bulb that would be somewhere in the
tube between the carboy and the bottling bucket, much like the
siphoning tubes available at automotive stores. I hesitate to
use an item designed for gas on my beer, but I haven't seen one
any where else. Has anyone seen such a beast, suitable for
transferring beer? If so, where?
YEAST NUTRIENT
I recently saw an add for yeast nutrient for use in making
beer. (I am aware that its use in making mead is standard,
although I have not yet made mead.) The add pointed out the
positive results of using nutrient, and the quick and healthy
ferments one could expect. So far, my ferments have seemed
fine, but I guess they could always be better. Anyway, has
anyone used yeast nutirent in making beer?
As always, TIA for any advice.
- --
Jeff Hewit
******************************************************************************
Eat a live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse
will happen to you the rest of the day.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:08:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Dmitry Kagansky <dkagan1@tinker.hofstra.edu>
Subject: Playing with Grolsch bottles
I bottled a stout a week ago, and used 2 party pigs, and 2 grolsch bottles.
Now the question: Can I open the grolsch bottles, pour some off to taste,
and then re-cap them? Logically (in my mind), it would work, but be a
little flat. Opinions?
Why? The stout is going to take longer than my regular ales, but I'm
impatient, and have never tried this (the re-capping thing). Usually, my
beer goes all at once, and the bottles are drained before I can even try
this method. But not many of my friends like stouts ('I can't SEE
through it!' whining abound), so I want to start drinking as soon as
possible. I figured I can use the bottles as 'testers.'
Thanks,
Dimi
DKAGAN1@TINKER.HOFSTRA.EDU
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:21:18 EST
From: " Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql@ibmmail.com>
Subject: AHA and Norm Pyle
*** Resending note of 02/21/95 16:40
To: INTERNET--IBMMAIL Internet Addresses
* Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its *
* original dimension. - Oliver Wendell Holmes *
Subject: AHA and Norm Pyle
IN HBD 1663...
-=> Norm Pyle comments on the 'level' of brewers catered to by the AHA...
I think you've got something there, Norm. Rather than deal with the student
beginning to challenge the master, the master chooses to ignore. This would be
consistent with their autocratic method of management (benevolent
dictatorship?) and the pullout from the BJCP; in effect, divorcing themselves
from their 'graduate students'.
Since they've given themselves a 10% raise, I guess I'll renew only if I get a
10% raise at work this year...
-=> Lee Bussy answers 'What can a judge do with his certificate?'...
Lee: I have an idea, but I'm holding my tongue... ;-)
(Just kidding. I actually DO appreciate what you guys do.)
-=> Chris Strickland asks about his frozen starter...
I wouldn't use these right out of the freezer. I'd boil them to both reduce
their SG and to sanitize them. Otherwise, sounds plausible to me!
-=> Andrew Keegan asks about texture on malt mill rollers...
In a previous quest to do as you are doing, I was told that the texturing of
the rollers helps to graw the grain in between. Cross-hatch patterns were
most often cited as best. (I've since given up on it and bout a Malt Mill.
Long story...)
Brew it! Don't chew it!
Patrick G. Babcock
USFMCHQL@IBMMAIL
(313)33-73657 (V)
(313)59-42328 (F)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 9:21:34 EST
From: Guy Mason <guy@polo.matrixnet.com>
Subject: Recipe Info...
Hello HBDer's,
Some quick questions from an Internet-challenged friend.
Anyone have an extract recipe for Corona?
Has anyone tried the Uckleduckfay Oatmeal Stout from TNJOHB?
Is it similar to New England Brewing Company's Oatmeal Stout?
Private e-mail is fine, if I get enough requests I'll post the results.
Thanx
============================================================================
Guy Mason
Matrix Software
guy@matrixnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:40:03 EST
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject: A few questions
I have a few questions I would like to direct to the collective.
(I feel like Loqutious of the Borg when I say that ;-) )
1) I have the opportunity of getting a soda fountain despensor for
fairly cheap. I have never seen the inner workings of one of these
things, so I don't know exactly how they work and what equipment is
included. My question is, is there any body out there that knows if
one of these things would be compatible with a cornelius kegging
system (or other type of kegging system) and what other equipment
would I need to complete the setup? Also, do you forsee any
potential problems. Finally, this is at an auction and I have no
idea what the item might be worth new so as to estimate what to
offer. I was thinking maybe $50 - $100.
2) I'm toying with the idea of going full-grain (actually, I know I
want to, it's just a matter of money). I saw a Gott 5gallon cooler
for about $25 yesterday. Right now I'm only doing 5gal batches, but
might go to 10gal when I go all-grain. Is a 5gal Gott big enough for
mashing/lautering or should I go bigger?
3) On the subject of going all-grain, my local brew supply store has
a gas cooker rated at 200,000Btu for $45. This sounds like a fair
price, but I haven't shopped around much. Does anyone know of a
better deal?
Unless you feel it to be of general interest, private e-mail is fine.
TIA
+------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Keith Royster | NC-DEHNR / Air Qualtiy |
| Environmental Engineer (EIT) | 919 North Main St. |
| n1ea471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | Mooresville, NC 28115 |
+------------------------------+ Voice: (704) 663-1699 |
| "I think I ran over my | Fax: (704) 663-6040 |
| Dogma with my Karma." | |
+------------------------------+-------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:25:28 EST
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject: cheap counter-flow chiller
Maybe someone has already figured this out, but I haven't seen a post
on it lately. I think I have built possibly the cheapest counter
flow chiller yet (sounds like a challenge to me ;-| ).
Ingredients Quantity Cost each
garden hose (25' x 1/2") 2 $3.47
Y-garden hose adapter-plastic 2 $0.97
plastic hose coupling (male) 1 $1.17
plastic hose coupling (female) 1 $1.17
copper tubing (20' x 1/4") 1 $7.20
TOTAL $18.42
First insert the 20' of copper tubing in the 25' garden hose (I used
mineral oil as a lubricant) through the male end of the hose, leaving
about 6" to 8" sticking out. Feel the hose to find the other end of
the copper tubing and cut it, again leaving about 6" to 8" of Cu tube
sticking out. Now put the male coupling on this end of the hose
(hose should now be male on both ends). Attach the Y-hose
adapters to each end, carefully threading the copper tubing out one
side of the Y-adapter so as not to crimp the tubing. Seal the gap
between the Cu tubing and the adapter with Silicon glue. Coil the
whole thing up to your liking, careful not to crimp the tubing
inside. Now cut the male end of the _other_ hose off and replace it
with the female coupling, making it all female. This hose is the
"water in" connector to your chiller. Use the scrap of hose left
over from the first hose as the "water out" draining hose. That's all
there is to it. You will probably need some other adapters, such as
some inexpensive compression fittings, for the ends of the copper
tubing, but that might me specific to your setup, so I'll leave the
rest to you.
Happy Brewing
+------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Keith Royster | NC-DEHNR / Air Qualtiy |
| Environmental Engineer (EIT) | 919 North Main St. |
| n1ea471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | Mooresville, NC 28115 |
+------------------------------+ Voice: (704) 663-1699 |
| "I think I ran over my | Fax: (704) 663-6040 |
| Dogma with my Karma." | |
+------------------------------+-------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:24:34 -0800
From: Mark Ohlstrom <mohlstr@CATI.CSUFresno.EDU>
Subject: IBU's/Gott/Judging $.02
As a new subscriber to the HBD, I have read with interest (and
occasional amusement) the topics available to we, the homebrewers.
I must enter the fray of IBU discussion with my observations, and more
particularly, questions about the process.
Currently, I am an all-grain brewer that mashes in a 5 gallon Gott
cooler, and I boil in a converted straight-sided keg. I practice infusion,
have found a practical grain limit of 13-14 lbs in the tun, and mash-out
to an initial volume of 7-8 gallons. Once in the pot, I boil down to 6-7
gallons, and yield 4.5-6 gallons to the fermenter, depending on the
amount of trub/hot break. My gravities range from 1.040 to 1.060; I
attribute that in part to the sparge volumes and the boil times.
None of the texts I've read on calculating IBU's make a point of
discussing *initial* boil volumes and how/if this should play into the
calculations. Is there any significance to the initial volume?
Using some hypotheticals (and please bear with my Excel calcs), if I
use the *kettle* volume (6.5) in the Rager formula, 1 oz of 10 % AU, a
60 minute boil with 30% utilization, an O.G. of 1.050, I come up with
34.44 IBU's. If I use my final fermenter volume (5.5), then I get 40.71.
Perhaps it is common sense, but none of the texts I have read has
made a distinction about the *proper* volume to use. Most of us would
be inclined to say *fermenter*, correct? I would argue that the final
kettle volume is the right one, since a gallon of unusable wort is still
one gallon of wort. Some brewers may not lose a gallon in the
process, as I do, but accurate calculations must have accurate
measurements.
Since I am a late comer to the IBU debate, I presume that the
disparaging of Garetz's approach to IBU calculation is with utilization
rates, not the formula itself. I say this because the formula in
Papazian's book works out pretty darn close to Garetz's if you use the
same utilization rates. I would concur that the Garetz
formula/utilization understates the IBU's: some of my own brews hit the
perceived high-end of the style, supported by the Rager %, yet fall in
the midpoint under the Garetz. Naturally then, the high end of the
Garetz calculation will make your brew out of style. That said, I recall
one writer in the HBD recently to say 20% is tops.
Practically speaking, I have determined (for now) to take the average
of the two to be consistent.
I've not yet explored other IBU formulas/theories, and would
appreciate further insight. If anyone would care to send me the text of
an alternate formula/utilization schedule, please do so!
On efficiency and the Gott cooler: as I stated, my *best* all-grain
gravity has been a 1.060 with infusion. Due to my setup, I have
resigned to sparge out to as much as 8 gallons to hit the 5-5.5 gallon
target. Perhaps the 1.060-ish gravity is all that can be Gott.
Lastly, on judging: it is a necessary evil. How can one explain the
variations, except for subjectivity? I saw not one but *two* 50's
awarded in the Pale Ale category during the AHA regional last year!
More than anything, a judges personal preferences play into a score.
Can you really expect a judge who doesn't like Pale Ale to be
unbiased? How many good brews have fallen due to a certain panel's
composition?
Now that my opinions are exposed and fair game to all, I trust you will
be kind (?) if not persuaded!
I brew when you yeast expect it.
Mark Ohlstrom (mohlstr@cati.csufresno.edu)
*****************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:45:13 -0600
From: Dan Wood <wood@cig.mot.com>
Subject: Recommendations for a good scale
In short, I'm looking for a good scale to weigh leaf hops, preferably
for under $40.
I've started buying hops in bulk from Just Hops (no affiliation, just
a delighted customer), and I'm finding it hard to gauge how much of
a 1 lb bag to use.
Most of the "diet" scales I've seen have granularity of an ounce
or less, and their accuracy is questionable. On the other hand, I'm
not ready to jump to a triple-beam. Anyone know of a simple balance,
good electronic scale, anything in between? TIA
Dan Wood wood@cig.mot.com
Motorola is not responsible for any statements contained in this post.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:10:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: WHITE ZOMBIE <LEET_77@access.ohio.gov>
Subject:
QUESTION ABOUT HOMEBREWING:
HOW MANY DRINKS CAN OYU BREW AT HOME?
HOW MUCH DO THE INGREDIENTS COST FOR SOME OF THEM?
TIM ANDERSON
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:36:03 -0800
From: Michael Sharp <msharp@Synopsys.COM>
Subject: HSA: a religious war?
Art Steinmetz <asteinm@pipeline.com> writes:
> Subject: HSA ignored at Breckenridge
>
> I was at the Breck brewpub in Breck. the other day (can you say "multiple
> feet of fresh powder?") and saw the sparge in progress. The hot wort flows
> into an open stainless bucket called a "gran-<something>" and from there is
> pumped into the boiler. Much foaming occurs in this bucket. The brewer on
> duty said HSA was not a concern, that's just the way the system was
> designed and that their Denver location uses a completely closed system.
>
> This setup looks to be a very efficient HSA *generator*. Can anyone
> explain what's going on? Thanks.
About a year ago I got a VIP tour of the Anheusier-Busch (sp?) plant as
part of the quarterly MBAA (Master Brewers Assoc of America) meeting.
They have developed equipment to mix hot air with the hot wort as soon
as it leaves the kettle. This is done in an ~3 story tall tower maybe 15' in
diameter. In this tank the uncooled wort is dropped from the top
(I imagine some kind of large assembly for distributing it evenly over the
diameter of the tank) against an upward air flow of something in excess of
at least 100F, I believe 160F was the number buut this was a while ago.
The bottom of this tower collects the hot wort and channels it to the
necessary chilling equipment.
This step caught me by supprise so I asked specific questions to make sure
I didn't misunderstand. The person answering was a very knowledgable plant
foreman with something between 15 and 20 years of experience so this was
not the case of a confused tour guide.
In the past HSA has been described to me as a bit of a religious issue.
There are two obvious sides and you're in one camp or the other. All the
data produced by one camp will never convince the other and vice versa.
I realize this doesn't really explain to you why anyone would do one thing
over another. I'm really not interested in starting a relgious war so I'm
going to avoid that all together. However, I think that it is important
to point out that there are two equally valid sides to this issue.
(aside: you should have seen the look on the foreman's face when he witnessed my
giving two tubes of brewery contaminants to someone I was meeting there
_after_ we had toured every nook and cranny of the brewery. Well, I reassured
him that they where only hop tollerant strains of Pediococcus and
Brettanomyces 8-) I was a good meeting. )
--Mike
(Lambic digest coordinator)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 12:55:28 -0600
From: gameier@fmc.com (Gary A. Meier)
Subject: testing a yeast starter
Keith Royster cited advice from his local supply store regarding how to
tell if a yeast starter is active:
"They instructed me to take a pinch of sugar (table sugar is fine) and drop
it into the starter bottle. If the yeast are active in sufficient
quantities, they will attack the sugar agressively, almost consuming it all
before it hits the bottom of the bottle. The result will be a column of
CO2 bubbles rising quickly to the surface of the wort. It is actually
quite amazing to watch!"
That sounds like too rapid a response to be attributable to the yeast, and
there is an alternative explanation. If the solution is supersaturated in
CO2 (as a yeast starter is likely to be after the yeast have digested the
available sugars), then adding sugar or any other finely divided solid
causes CO2 to bubble out of solution. The solid provides "condensation
nuclei", around which the gas bubbles form. Try adding a pinch of sugar or
salt or sand to nearly-flat soda or pasteurized commercial beer. You
should see a column of CO2 bubbles rising quickly to the surface, even
though no yeast are present.
The test itself may still be useful, but I think it is telling you that
yeast were previously active in the starter. This is a good sign, but it
is not quite a guarantee that the yeast are still healthy.
**************************************************************************
Gary Meier, Ph.D. Senior Research Computational Chemist
FMC Corporation
Agricultural Chemical Group phone: (609) 951-3448
Box 8 fax: (609) 951-3835
Princeton, NJ 08543 email: gameier@fmc.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:09:36 -0500
From: bq240@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David S. Burlage)
Subject: Re: Beer line pressure drop
Pressure drop per foot of hose is not simply a number that you
cann assign to a type of hose. Pressure drop per foot depends
strongly upon the flow rate through the hose. At zero flow, there
is no pressure drop, and the pressure drop per foot increses as
flow rate increases. The type of flow also makes a big diference.
In laminar flow, the roughness of the hose is not nearly as
important as it is in turbulent flow. See any basic text on
fluid dynamics.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 12:09:00 cst
From: "Babinec, Tony" <tony@spss.com>
Subject: skimming & dropping
I've enjoyed the recent thread on "dropping," especially various
postings by Brian Gowland, Jim Busch, and Jim Cave (Hi, all!). I
recommend Graham Wheeler's "CAMRA Homebrewing Guide"
and Wheeler and Protz's "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home" for
their insights into the British brewing practice, which is
somewhat different than the US one. I'd like to try to put the
discussion of dropping into some context. My understanding of
this is based on reading the above plus touring a couple British
breweries.
Brewers in Britain use ale yeasts, some of which are strong top
croppers. The process of "skimming" consists of the following:
As fermentation takes off, the yeast develop a head, or berm. At
ale fermentation temperatures, fermentation can be quite vigorous
and the head quite pronounced. A couple days in to the ferment,
the head discolors with some brown material. This brown material
is, variously, cold and hot break, hop by-products, spent yeast,
trub. There are purported deleterious flavors from this material,
and purported flavor benefits in the finished beer from removing
this material. The brewer would use a spoon to skim the head and
remove some of the trub and yeast. The beer nonetheless retains a
strong top crop of yeast. The problem with skimming is that one
has to intermittently skim the yeast and trub from the beer. To the
extent one doesn't, then as fermentation winds down, the head
and yeast fall through the beer, mixing all the originally lifted
material that hasn't been removed back into the beer. A
homebrewer can easily put skimming into practice by conducting
open fermentation, as has been well described by Jim Busch. The
blowoff method can also be seen as a variant of this method.
Rather than skimming, the brewer relies on an active fermentation
plus some hosing to blow the trub off of the beer. One other
point: The Burton Union system employed for so long by Bass
and still to this day by Marston can be seen as a variant of this
method.
Given the problem with removing yeast and trub from beer,
someone had the bright idea to instead remove the beer from the
yeast and trub. This is the "dropping" method. Dropping refers
to dropping the beer out of a vessel into a vessel below (a vertical
arrangement naturally suggests itself). Pre- and post- dropping,
the beer is still in primary fermentation. The trub is left behind,
while active yeast are carried along with the dropped beer. This
evidently is common practice in commercial British brewing.
Brian Gowland suggests an ersatz dropping method consisting of
racking the beer a couple days into primary fermentation, leaving
the stuff on top in the first vessel.
I don't know whether deliberate aeration at this point is necessary
or desirable. There are so-called "Northern yeasts" that seemingly
require splashing and aeration in order to do the job. The
sustained mouthfeel and smooth buttery flavor of Samuel Smith's
is the result. The Yorkshire Stone square system is the
fermentation system used for this type of yeast.
I suggest that on the homebrew level we can do a lot of
experimentation. Relatively recently, there has been a virtual
explosion in the availability of true British yeast. Contact Dan
McConnell at Yeast Culture Kit Company and ask him what he
has available "behind the scenes." Or, take a look at the Brewers
Resource catalog for a half-dozen or so interesting British yeast.
Regards,
Tony Babinec
tony@spss.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 10:18:37 PST
From: kens@squid.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Request for Competion Info
In an attempt to help my brew club, I am gathering information on homebrew
competitions to include in our newsletter. I have scanned the various
places on the www but not all competitions are posted. It would help
if competition organizers could email to me as much info as possible, even
if it just a contact name and phone number. As I compile the list I would
be glad to send it to any who are interested. Since the club I belong to is
in San Francisco (San Andreas Malts), I am keenly interested in west coast
competitions. My email address in a change mode as we install a new
mail server. You can mail to me at either of these two addresses:
kens@lan.nsc.com or kens@squid.nsc.com. Thanks for the help.
On another note, I haven't had the time to thank all those who responded
to my "cloudy beer problem". (My mother in law was staying at my house :-0).
I am going to try some of the sujestions this weekend and will post the
results in an effort to help others.
Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 13:18:47 EST
From: abaucom@fester.swales.com
Subject: dry hopping...
Is it OK to dry hop in a corny keg AFTER forced carbonation? I'm worried
about hops coming out of the hop bag and clogging the dip tube/valve assembly
due to the agitation of forced carbonation.
tia,
-Andrew
- ------
Andrew W. Baucom, abaucom@fester.swales.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:26:07 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271@appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Club only Mega-brew-a-thon!
Clear the decks and empty your carboys, there's plans abrewin!
My first homebrew club, The Impaling Alers of Kent, WA, has got something
special planned for National Homebrewing day the first Saturday in May.
I'd heard about the Great Northern Brewer's Homebrewing Club in Alaska
and their setting the homebrewing record of 450 gallons made in a single day.
I thought that we could give it a try, or at least die in the attempt!
At the very least, and if you can, plan on coming to Larry's Brewing supply
on May 6 and watching us make batch after batch of homebrew. We'll be doing all
grain, all extract, combinations, maybe even a mead or two! What we need is
quantity for the record, but quality will be nice too! We've got the 50 gallon
pilot brewery that can go a long ways towards filling a lot of carboys. We also
need you to bring your empty carboys and fermentation buckets down that day to
collect X gallons of chilled wort, suitable for yeast pitching. So here's the
deal. You can make your own brew if you're in the club, or buy some of the club
wort, or both! This is gonna be great!
I can brew twice that day in my own system, and fill up maybe 4 or 5 carboys
with those two different batches, and I can help brew in the 50 gallon tank,
and claim two or more carboys of wort from that batch. I can fill every
fermentation container I have, plus more, if only they are ready (empty) on May
6. Friday night I can have no brew going, and Sunday morning comes, I won't be
able to sleep for all of the carboy bubbling going on! Start planning for this
now. Plan on having all of your available fermentation containers empty come
May. And plan on setting up a lot of yeast starters suitable for pitching on
May 6. And bring plenty of coffee, 'cause it's going to be a long day!
More info to come...
Rich Webb
------------------------------
Date: Wed Feb 22 13:33:31 1995
From: <TWALDON@fcc.gov> (Waldon, Tracy )
Subject: Modified Malt and Balling
Over the weekend I brewed with D-C Pils malt for the first
time in over a year, having been using MF Pale Ale most
recently. The interesting thing I noticed was that when
using the modified Pils I had no problem with balling
during the mash-in, but when I switched to the highly
modified Pale Ale malt, balling became a serious problem.
At the time I thought it was due to the level of modification,
but it occured to me this weekend that with the Pale Ale
my strike temp was generally about 158 F, but would be
in the range of 128 F with the Pils.
So, which is it, temp, modification, or both? I imagine
someone who uses a single step mash with Pils malt
has the answer for me. Would this balling test be a good
test for when you buy the occassional generic bag of "malt"?
Norm Pyle's response to Jeff Hewit brought up a subject
near and dear to all of our hearts:
<After you've been brewing for 3 years or so, those ads
<get very tiring. How many times do I need to sift
<through the same ads for Charlie P slogans and
<sayings? After you've seen them 10 or 20 times you
<start to wonder if the magazine couldn't fill that
<space with something a little more useful.
Not that I disagree with you, Norm, but how
could we support the globe-trotting staff without
all the advertising revenue (Note: no emoticon here)?
Which probably gets to the heart of my concerns over
the AHA; absolutely no accountability over the funds
collected from the "members" of the non-profit org.
Not that I plan on entering the great IBU math debate, but
Al K. is such a great straight man that I couldn't resist.
Many, many unsuspecting homebrewers have bought
the book and have brewed with the formulas that
Garetz published and they have brewed overhopped
beer with them.
Overhopped beer? You must be kidding, never had one! :-)
Almost forgot...
Bruce DeBolt was asking about substituting 1 lb. of
Aromatic for an equal quantity of Munich, My
experience with both D-C malts is that the Aromatic
adds an incredible malty aroma and a strong malt
character. I would guess that 1 lb. would probably
be too intense, though I once put a pound and a half
in an Octoberfest and the judges comments were
WOW, w.r.t. the malt character. Since that time I've
never used more than 8 ounces (in 5 gal.) and get
very strong malt character from that. All I can say
is to experiment, but be prepared for an intense
malt character.
*************************************
Tracy Waldon twaldon@fcc.gov
Just another paranoid anarchist on the ISH
*************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:35:46 -0700 (MST)
From: walter@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Fifth Annual March Mashfest
Second (and last) Request for Entries and Judges
For The
Fifth Annual March Mashfest
An
AHA Sanctioned Homebrewed Beer and Mead Competition
Run By
The Mash Tonuges of Fort Collins, CO
Entries Due: 27 February to 10 March 1995
Judging: Friday 17 March and Saturday 18 March 1995
If you would like more info please contact:
Brian J Walter
618 Tyler Street
Fort Collins, CO 80521-3122
303.493.2586
walter@lamar.colostate.edu
Send USMail address for formatted copy of entry packet,
or email address for ascii version
------------------------------
Date: 22 Feb 95 09:22:00 -0600
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: AHA IBUs/B-Brite/Great Western/dropping != racking
Pat writes:
>How are the AHA *desired* IBUs determined?
They are meant to represent the IBU ranges typically found in commercial
beers. Some of them are way off, but they have been getting closer and
closer each year. Actually, I'm pretty happy with the 1995 guidelines
compared with those terrible 1994 guidelines (check out the "sweet maltiness"
in the Dry Stout subcategory). Alts are finally beginning to get into
the proper range to represent the *Dusseldorf* Alt they have been pretending
to be! There is still much work to be done, but I think that if you
compare the 1995 guidelines with, say, the 1990 ones, you would notice
BIG differences.
So, in fact, getting an accuate formula that estimates the IBUs you get
from your system is rather important.
***
There were two posts yesterday that said that B-Brite is Sodium Carbonate.
I assure you that there's more oxygen there than you think. No, it's
Sodium PERcarbonate, which, when added to water, basically makes something
similar to Sodium Carbonate in Hydrogen Peroxide. That's why it sanitizes.
Sodium Carbonate does not sanitize.
***
Mark writes:
>klages. However, I have seen Klages refered to as both a pale and a lager
>malt. I know that Klages is a barley strain not a malt variety. However,
>is it made into both Pale and Lager malts? I have ordered it as both and
Great Western may be like Schreier, i.e. they just make one and deliver that
when you request either lager or pale ale malt. Schreier calls theirs
2-row Brewer's Malt.
***
Sorry, I just deleted the question about whether dropping is the same
as racking, so I don't have the posters name. Actually, if you look again
at the timing of the transfer, dropping is quite specific. You'll note
that, when you make a beer, about a day or two into the fermenation, there
is a dirty head that rides up on top of a white foam. The concept of dropping
(which, incidentally could be done via racking, it doesn't requite a spigot)
is based upon the idea that you remove the beer before this dirty head has
a chance to fall back into the beer, so you leave it in the primary.
Al.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1665, 02/25/95
*************************************
-------
