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HOMEBREW Digest #1636
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/01/20 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1636 Fri 20 January 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
pressure airlocks (John Mason)
Closed press ferment (gary.foskuhl)
Yeast culturing (Lance Stronk)
5 liter minikegs (TPuskar)
5-litre mini kegs (richard frederick hand)
Poppet valves (Matt_K)
Re: Pathogens (Frank Caico)
Irish Moss / Costmary ("KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814)
Cornelious Keg Prices ("KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814)
Re: D-C Aromatic Malt (Frank Caico)
Contest /BJCP exam (Btalk)
Cider recipe/Lucifer? (SOC)" <mendrick@chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Wortus Interruptus / PET caps /low-temp starters (RONALD DWELLE)
Re:pathogen (Paul Brun)
if you ferment in Sankeys, how do you clean them? (Joe Boardman)
foop; carcinogens ("v.f. daveikis")
pH Meters ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
The Selling of the Cat's Meow ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
Free brew classes in NH!!! (MICHAEL_LESSARD)
Pathogens (Al Marshall)
Black Gold Update ("Joseph E. Santos")
maltzbier/freezer-collar ("Wallinger, W. A.")
Fermenting Ale Yeast at Low Temperatures ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
Response to an old query (Gary McCarthy)
Water Chemistry Gurus... (John Dodson)
Re: heifeweizen recipe? (Linscheid, SSgt James)
Re:PET and CO2 again (harry)
yeast preservation ... (Tom Fitzpatrick)
Fusel alcohols (David Draper)
Call Me Mr. Opinionated (molloy)
B-Brite, Bleach, Sanitizing, etc. (harry)
Capping 2L PET bottles. (MARK KEMPISTY - 957-8365)
O2 permiability/acid rest and decoctions (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Brewing Techniques ("Houseman, David L [TR]")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 04:19:18 GMT
From: john.mason@wpe.com (John Mason)
Subject: pressure airlocks
Greetings,
Wondering if anyone knows a source for pressure
air/fermentation locks. I need them for the
stainless steel pressure lagering tanks I'm
building. Adjustable locks prefered (0-15 PSI).
TIA for any help.
Cheers!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 15:23:08
From: gary.foskuhl@chatnet.com
Subject: Closed press ferment
The Gadgets issue of Zymurgy describes closed pressurized fermentation. I am in
the midst of perfecting it.....not getting the timing right when it comes to
"capping." Any suggestions? Anyone know of any additional literature on the
subject? Thanks.......
Gary Foskuhl
Dayton Regional Amateur Fermentoligists
------------------------------
Date: 19 Jan 1995 08:01:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Lance Stronk <S29033%22681@utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: Yeast culturing
John Maxwell writes:
>Given this, I don't understand why anyone bothers with yeast
>slants. They seem to involve substantialy more work, for the same
>results. Is it just the folks with frost-free freezers who do slants,
>or am I missing something signifigant?
I have cultured yeast by creating agar slants following a publication that I
had bough specifically for the subject (I can't think of the name right off -
something like, "Yeast Culturing For The Homebrewer"). Anyway, the book is not
very big - only about 40 pages. This description might jar someone elses
memory on this HBD. Anyway, I have propagated yeast from pure cultures (the
expensive ones you talk about - $3-$4 each) using the methods in the book. As
far as I can tell from my experience doing this is that you can 'see' the yeast
growing on the culture medium (which is the malt, yeast nutrient, and agar mix
- agar is a type of gelatin). If you store these slants for several months you
will notice that some of them may grow mold or other things. They will not
look creamy white like they are supposed to. I doubt very much that if you
propagated yeast in a starter solution that you could see this contamination.
The only way you could tell if you had a yeast culture that had gone astray
would be either a microscope or by tasting the culture (not an exact science by
any means).
You should consider how many batches of beer you will make in a year as well.
If you use more than, say, 5 different yeasts throughout the year and you are
thinking of propagating the pure yeast cultures, you will end up with 10 slants
per pure culture. That's 50 slants + in your refridgerator. Granted not all
of them will be 'good' but that is a lot of beer per year if you use one slant
per starter per 5 gallon batch.
I occasionally culture yeast but for the most part I just reuse what is in the
fermenter from the previous batch. After siphoning the beer out of the
fermenter and kegging, I put the next batch of wort right on top of the
yeast sediment (and some trub) on the bottom. Thus, handling of the yeast
slurry in the bottom of the fermenter is kept to a minimum (you don't have to
dump it out into a container and then repitch). This has worked well for me.
There is still some beer left in the fermenter so the new stuff I dump in will
mix with it but this has never been a problem and I have never had
contamination from doing this. I repeat this scenario with about 4 batches and
then dump the slurry and start over. This works well if you are into seasonal
brewing (ales in spring and fall, lager in winter, wheat beer in summer).
I hope it helps.
Lance Stronk
Sikorsky Aircraft, Stratford, CT.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:09:58 -0500
From: TPuskar@aol.com
Subject: 5 liter minikegs
After asking several questions and getting some excellent advice I now have
somthing I think I can contribute regarding the minikegs. I've been using
them for about a year and have had both good and bad experiences. I've put
plisners, wheat, bock and a somewhat ill defined light and very hoppy beer
into them. My biggest complaint is the amount of foam you get from them.
This, I find, is somewhat dependent upon style of beer. Heavier beers
foamed more in my experience.
I don't put an entire 5 gallon batch into the kegs. I always split into 2
kegs and the rest bottles. I use 1/3 cup of corn sugar for priming the
entire batch and then fill the 2 kegs. I then add a bit more sugar before
filling the bottles. The following chart was provided to me when I boughtthe
kegs:
# kegs filled sugar for rest of
batch
4 none
3 1.5
tablespoons
2 3
tablespoons
1 5
tablespoons
I've never had any sweeling, leaking or other physical type problems.
I usually tap without a CO2 cartridge and use the natural carbonation until
it runs out. To eliminate foaming, I depress the handle all the way down.
You gotta be quick or you lose most of the beer to foam. Generally, I draw
into a pitcher and let the foam settle somewhat. Makes me feel like a real
pub owner ;-) When I can't get any more beer from the keg I put in one of the
CO2 cartridges. I only goose it up enough to pour a beer with a reasonable
head, then turn it back down. If I run out of beer in the keg and still have
CO2 in the cartridge I just take the tap off and put it into the next keg.
If you're careful you can remove the gizmo without relaessing the gas. Just
be sure to turn it off at the valve. I've used one cartridge for two full
kegs!!!
All in all I like my system. I don't have an extra fridge for the larger
kegs and this allows me to keep some "draft" beer around to impress my
firends.
Hope this helps someone out there.
Happy brewing
Tom Puskar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:45:46 -0400
From: richard frederick hand <ac081@cfn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: 5-litre mini kegs
Thanks all for the replies I've been getting regarding the leaking CO2
tap and the "exploded" kegs. I fear I have lead some astray in using the
word "exploded". I have used it liberally as the opposite to imploded.
However, as some have experienced, the symptom was really a matter of
severe bulging at both ends. One of the cans bulged so much that it could
not stand up. I should also mention that this can blew its rubber seal
(cork) spewing the contents all over the owner's walls. (Brew-art?)
This supposedly could cause serious injury if one happened to be in the way.
In any case, I will provide a summary of comments in the near future from
the replies I have received. Just a note in passing, one reply mentioned
using the 16g. CO2 cylinders rather than the smaller ones. It is the 16g.
cylinders that are being used in this case. I'm also quite amazed about
the number of people who are also experiencing leaking cylinders/taps.
Perhaps we should send the collected comments to Fass Frisch in Germany
so they can perfect the problem?
Rick Hand
Halifax, Nova Scotia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 08:55:08 est
From: Matt_K@ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Poppet valves
Message:
I went to the brew store last night and replaced two leaky poppets.
The store recommended that I apply some vaseline to the poppets to get
a better seal. My initial reaction was: "I DON"T THINK SO". (Insert
mental flavour profile of Vaseline Pale Ale here). Are they out to
lunch or am I?
Once again, many thank's to the combined wisdom of the HBD for my
continued education/inspiration.
Matt
Montreal
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:01:55 +0500
From: fcaico@ycc.Kodak.COM (Frank Caico)
Subject: Re: Pathogens
d> As the an owner of a home brewing shop I am occasionally asked by
d> customers if there is anything that is pathogenic, carcinogenic, or
d> otherwise toxic that can develop in the brewing process. I know as a
d> home brewer with many years experience that this is not possible. I
d> posed this question to Dr. M. Lewis at Davis several years ago who
d> assured the class that there is no possibility of pathogens: However,
d> the question came up again with my insurance agent for the HB supply
d> store who said the underwriters are concerned about product liability.
d> The simple answer "no" has always satisfied me in the past, however,
d> does anyone know the technical answer/explanation to this question?
Hi,
I am sorry I don't know your name, but I will provide you a simple answer to
your question; Acidity.
During the brewing/fermenting process, the pH of the beer just keeps on
lowering and lowering. I think it bottoms out around 4 (I'm not an expert I
just pretend to be one). Anyhow, There are no *known* pathogens that can
survive in a medium of this acidity level. In fact, there are few organisms
period that can live in such a hellish environment.
The alcohol that is produced during fermentation is another factor in limiting
the growth of organisms - esp. pathogens.
Perhaps one of you more microbiologically minded individuals can correct me?
Frank
- ----
__ __
__/\_\ -------------------------+------------------------------ /_/\__
__/\_\/_/ Frank L. Caico | Eastman Kodak Co. \_\/_/\__
/\_\/_/\_\ -------------------------+ 901 Elmgrove Road /_/\_\/_/\
\/_/\_\/_/ Internet Adress: | 2/5/EP MC: 35400 \_\/_/\_\/
\/_/\_\ fcaico@ycc.kodak.com | Rochester, NY 14653-5400 /_/\_\/
\/_/ -------------------------|------------------------------ \_\/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:07:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814 <KFONS@china.qgraph.com>" <KFONS@china.qgraph.com>
Subject: Irish Moss / Costmary
Does anyone grow their own Irish Moss? How does it need to be treated to use
it (dehydrate/hang dry)?
*********************
Looking through the Nichols catalog I ran accross an herb called Costmary, what
is it and how is it used in homebrewing? They called it the homebrew herb.
Thanks,
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:09:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814 <KFONS@china.qgraph.com>" <KFONS@china.qgraph.com>
Subject: Cornelious Keg Prices
Who has the best prices on refurbished 5 gallon cornelious kegs (pepsi style)
these days? I am looking to buy 3 or 4.
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:06:24 +0500
From: fcaico@ycc.Kodak.COM (Frank Caico)
Subject: Re: D-C Aromatic Malt
>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Grady <grady@hpangrt.an.hp.com> writes:
Jim> In HBD #1633, Doug Flagg asks about experience with DeWolf-Cosyns
Jim> Aromatic malt. I just brewed a batch based on a recipe from the CAMRA
Jim> book "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home." I substituted the Aromatic
Jim> malt for the Amber malt in the recipe and it is probably the best beer
Jim> I have made to date. The recipe was from the Smile's Brewery Bitter
Jim> and what I put together was as follows: 3.8 kg D-C Pale Ale Malt 420 g
Jim> D-C Aromatic Malt
Jim,
What exactly is "Aromatic malt"? I have never heard of this.
Frank
- ----
__ __
__/\_\ -------------------------+------------------------------ /_/\__
__/\_\/_/ Frank L. Caico | Eastman Kodak Co. \_\/_/\__
/\_\/_/\_\ -------------------------+ 901 Elmgrove Road /_/\_\/_/\
\/_/\_\/_/ Internet Adress: | 2/5/EP MC: 35400 \_\/_/\_\/
\/_/\_\ fcaico@ycc.kodak.com | Rochester, NY 14653-5400 /_/\_\/
\/_/ -------------------------|------------------------------ \_\/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:57:00 -0500
From: Btalk@aol.com
Subject: Contest /BJCP exam
This is a repost of a contest announcement with additional details included.
The Borderline Yeast Infectors Homebrew Club will be hosting their first
annual AHA sanctioned contest on April 1, 1995.
Entry deadline is March 18, 1995.
Entries accepted in all AHA styles except Sake and Cider.
The BJCP exam will be given on the morning of the contest.
The contest and exam will be held at Kiwi's Restaurant in Corbettsville, NY
which is just outside of Binghamton, NY.
Entry forms will be available mid next week.
Cool Prizes!!
Best of Show wins a complete kegging system.
2nd BOS gets a Half Yard glass with stand.
3rd BOS gets 50 lbs Klages malt.
Club award. $50 gift certificate based on top 5 scoring beers entered by
each club.
Prizes will be awarded for First Place in each of 14 major categories. These
will include glassware, malt extracts, 6 packs.
Ribbons for top 3 places in each major category and BOS.
JUDGES NEEDED: Contact Bob Talkiewicz <btalk@aol.com>, phone 607-772-8442,
fax 607-722-1379.
Entry form requests to Doug Lukasik <lukasik_d@sunybroome.edu>. Include your
snail mail address.
BJCP exam info: Contact Scott Bickham <Bickham@msc.cornell.edu>.
Get brewing!
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:11:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jon Mendrick (SOC)" <mendrick@chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Cider recipe/Lucifer?
My roomate came back from Paris last summer bragging about this great
beer called Lucifer. Has anyone ever heard of this beer? I believe it
is a wheat beer. If so, any idea how to make it?
Also I would appreciate any cider recipes that could be sent my
way. Private e-mail preferred. Thanks a lot.
Cheers,
Jonny
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 11:12:46 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: Wortus Interruptus / PET caps /low-temp starters
Disaster yesterday. I was most of the way through the sparge and had
the first several gallons of the runnings in the brewpot on the stove,
just starting toward a boil. Long story unrelated to brewing, but I
ended up in the emergency room with my son and his friend and a couple
smashed fingers and didn't get back til late at night. Had about four
gallons of sparged wort in a carboy, about three gallons of wort that
had been heated to maybe 150 and then turned off to cool down at its
own rate. No way could I finish the process--I'll complete everything
tonight when I get home from work.
Question (for future reference, since I've already done what I
did)--what's the best thing to do when you've got no choice but to
stop when you're only half way toward the climax of your process? My
choices were: 1) put it all in the brewpot and stick it in the oven at
some temperature (180? 200? 210?) and leave it for about 18 hours. 2)
leave it all at room temperature. 3) cool it down to refrigerator
temperatures (this time of year, just stick it out on the porch). More
general question is how to minimize harm to the final beer by treating
the stranded wort the best way.
Another Q--Never done PET bottles but would like to try a few for
portability. Do you just re-use the original plastic caps or do you
get new ones somewhere? Where?
While I'm on--when I asked awhile ago about which ale yeast was best
for low temperatures, I had several off-list replies to the effect
that if I used a starter at the low temperature, the pitched yeast
would work better at the low temperature. True?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 9:11:05 MST
From: Paul Brun <pf21507@pfra.gc.ca>
Subject: Re:pathogen
Hello,
I saw your HBD message on pathogens and thought I would put in my
two cents worth.
As far as pathogens are concerned I am not sure. Although, here is
what I have to say about carcinogens.
Trihalomethanes (THM's) are disinfection byproducts that are formed
when chlorine reacts with naturally-occurring organic substances in
water. The major THM that is formed is the potential carcinogen,
chloroform. The amount of THM's formed depends on the chlorine
level, amount of Total Organic Carbon in the water, contact time,
temperature and pH.
Chlorine in the form of liquid sodium hypochlorite (laundry bleach)
or calcium hypochlorite (chlorine pellets), is a very common
chemical in domestic water treatment. It is used to disinfect,
remove iron, control iron bacteria, and oxidize hydrogen sulfide.
For homebrewers the only concern would be using water treated with
high levels of chlorine, which is sometimes the case in certain
cities. The THM's could be formed during the fermentation process
when the chlorine in the water reacts with the sediment. Although,
if chlorine levels are that high the water would have a definite
taste and smell which would make it undesirable for brewing.
Currently, Canadian Drinking Water Quality Guidelines recommend a
maximum concentration of 0.350 mg/L (ppm). Alberta (Canada) is
considering lowering that level to 0.100 mg/L.
Methods to remove THM's include Activated Carbon Filters (removal
efficiency decreases with age).
NOTE:
It is important to keep things in perspective. Most
homebrewers maintain sanitary conditions. This includes the
rinsing of the bleach cleaning solution. Therefore, the
chance of THM's causing cancer in the homebrewing process
is extremely low. In most cases the level of chlorine required
to cause cancer would make the beer taste horrible.
I just added this article to make the homebrewer aware of his/
her hobby. You can never know enough!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:35:32 -0700
From: Joe Boardman <boardman@amber.colorado.edu>
Subject: if you ferment in Sankeys, how do you clean them?
G'day all,
I am in the process of scaling up a bit, from 10 gal to 1 bbl
batches. I recently acquired a few used Sankeys, legally of course.
I recall a few folks conversing about fermentation in the 1/2 bbl's.
>From my past experiences with carboy fermentation, and an examination
of the Sankeys, it seems like it would be impossible to clean the
"grunge" (nice technical term, huh?) from the inside top of the keg.
What do the experts say?
Thanks and good brewing,
Joe Boardman
boardman@amber.colorado.edu
P.S. Has anybody else suffered the problem of spending more time working on,
talking about and building their homebrewery than actually brewing? If I don't
actually brew soon, my brew buddies will leave me for good. I'm starting
to think my hobby is building a brewery, not brewing beer.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:35:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "v.f. daveikis" <vdaveiki@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: foop; carcinogens
Hi folks--
The FOOP discussions prompted me to do something I've never done
before-- I bottled my krausen. I brewed a stout that blew off over a
litre of beer. This blowoff was collected in a 1 gallon jug with a
two-holed stopper-- one for the blowoff, one for the airlock. When
fermentation stoppped, I bottled it. Results-- slightly overbittered for
a stout ( which aren't all that bittered anyway) but not overpowering.
It was a fine drink. The main result that I was interested in was the
head. As this beer originated as foam, I wanted to see how the
head turned out. It had the best head of any beer I've brewed to date.
Thick as cream, lacing right to the bottom. Take this information any
which way you will.
Somebody asked aboiut carcinogens in beer. Pathogens-- you would have
to analyze youir brew for pathogenic microbes, but as far as I know yoiu
brew sterile stuff, and any infections are on purpose ( you infect wort
with yeast) unless you are not sanitizing everything prop[erly. However,
beer is full of carcinogens. Alcohol is a carcinogen, yeast has
carcinogens, as do hops, malt, and tap water. The air we breathe
contains carcinogens. You can't escape them-- but yoiu have to
understand that the amounts can be so infinitely small they have no real
effect. ie. smoke 40 cigarettes; breathe L.A. smog for a year-- you'll
get the same amounts of carcinogens. Chlorination of drinking water
results in chloroform formation-- a carcinogen. Hop oils and
preservative properties of hops are that way because they can resist
microbes-- its a chemical defence-- these chemicals are carcinogens. Go
to the library, pick up a book on pharmacology or on toxins and read on.
Best thing-- relax, don't worry, give the insurance guy a homebrew.
Victor Daveikis,, London Ont.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 10:38:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: pH Meters
In HBD #1628 Ed Scolforo (ed.scolforo@berkshirebbs.com) writes:
<I'd like to hear from homebrewers regarding their experiences
<with [pH] meters, both good and bad, and any recommendations
I bought the same unit (pH Checker) made in Mauritania and have had
mixed results. Yesterday I called several suppliers/manufacturers of
handheld pH meters, and noticed they all sold units in the $35-$40 range
and that the specs for these units were identical. This skimpy data
suggests there is a single OEM for the pH Checker, which is sold under
various names.
I've had sporadic readings from my meter, too, even after a given
reading appeared to have stabilized. In talking to the techs at these
various suppliers, I was told it's critical to ensure the probe is kept as
far away from the sample container as possible--and one indicated
that too small a container will render the readings unreliable.
Something about some normalized "cell size" which apparently
determines an ion gradient occuring in liquids in containers.
Believe me, I'm reading a lot between the lines on this one.
In any case, tonight I plan to conduct some experiments with tap water
to see how readings are driven by sample size, planetary alignment,
etc.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 10:50:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: The Selling of the Cat's Meow
In HBD #1627 Eric Stauffer (stauffer_eric_b@lilly.com) asked about the
legality
of an offer he's seen for a searchable Cat's Meow database. It's clear to
me
from the language of the Cat's Meow text (I think the word "Copyright" is
used)
that it can't be sold.
I've built a chunk of code that parse's the Cat's Meow and allows it to be
loaded
into a Microsoft Access database I built, and it's a lot of fun. After I
check with the
folks at Cat's Meow and get permission from them, I'll offer the Access
database
for free. I hope to make some arrangements to get the database deltas from
them so we can work together to keep the Access version up to date.
Again, this all depends on the GO/NOGO decision I get from the people who
care for and feed the Cat's Meow.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 12:52:02 -0500
From: MICHAEL_LESSARD@HP-Chelmsford-om1.om.hp.com
Subject: Free brew classes in NH!!!
OK this may seem like a plug for a business, but it is really for
individuals wanting to learn how to brew and to find out what is
involved. It's how I got interested and learned to brew. If you feel
you need to yell at someone about this message, flame me. These folks
doing the class don't know I have sent this message, I just think it's a
great way to discover brewing.
For the folks in the New Hampshire area wishing to learn the art of
brewing their own beer, there are FREE beginner seminars being offered
in Manchester, NH. The dates for these are:
Session 1 January 17 and January 31
Session 2 January 25 and February 8
Session 3 February 22 and March 8
Session 4 March 14 and March 28
Class size limited, 1st come 1st served. Classes start at 6:00 pm and
run appox. 3 hrs. The 1st date is brewing and the 2nd date is bottling.
Call and register if interested. Phone numbers are: (603)-624-1080 or
800-608-BEER (outside of Manchester area. Ask for Glenn or Jacki Roy of
BEER ESSENTIALS.
All the usual disclaimers, blah, blah, blah. and again don't yell at
them for this message.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:44:47 -0800 (PST)
From: alm@ibeam.jf.intel.com (Al Marshall)
Subject: Pathogens
dhvanvalkenburg requests information about pathogens in beer...
I would like to amplify the question as follows. I have never
had the opportunity to pose these to biochemists or microbiologists.
The statement
under discussion is usually rendered as "no known pathogens survive in beer".
Reasons commonly given are the low pH and alcohol content of beer.
Questions:
1. When we say "survival in beer" what are the limits in terms of
time & fermentation characteristics? Is a weak disordered fermentation just
as hostile as a strong normal type?
2. Is there something mutally exclusive about the characteristics
of the microbes that can survive in beer and human pathogens?
3. If the anser to (2) is no, are there any genera of pathogens that stand
any chance of mutating such that they survive in beer?
Private postings might insulate us from flames about deviating from
the true path of the digest... :-).
R. Al Marshall (not to be confused with Alan Marshall)
alm@ibeam.intel.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:01:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos@WPI.EDU>
Subject: Black Gold Update
Lisa,
You are correct, the recipe is for 5 gal. I started in a 6.5 gal primary
and lost 3-4 quarts in blowoff and a little more in racking. The
secondary was completed in a 5 gal. carboy. Both primary and secondary
are glass. As I stated this was an experiment and in retrospect I would
have started with less water to minimize loss. The blowoff tube went into
a 5 gal. bucket of water and after finishing I think th S.G. of the
bucket was as high as some of the brown ales I've made :(
DR J
Just another happy homebrewer!
------------------------------
Date: 19 Jan 95 11:03:25 PST
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA@chevron.com>
Subject: maltzbier/freezer-collar
From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject: maltzbier/freezer-collar
Date: 1995-01-19 12:46
Priority:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
memo:
i'd like to see the maltzbier recipe/procedure posted rather than email'ed
to the requestor. there may be more interest in this than you think.
and i'd like to see the particulars on the freezer-collar design which
someone was using to avoid drilling holes for the spigots in the body of the
freezer.
as a new subscriber, i like to see answers posted as well as questions,
avoiding the private email route. however, i do appreciate the one comment
regarding private email receivers - that in general folks are willing to
summarize the private email back to the hbd. trying to catch up on old hbd's
can be a what-mom-says-newt-thinks-of-hillary, so the summary keeps the size
of the hbd to a minimum.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 12:13:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Fermenting Ale Yeast at Low Temperatures
>From: diput@eis.calstate.edu
>Subject: Cold Conditioning Ale Yeast Strains
>Has anybody had any experience with acclimatizing an
>ale yeast strain to ferment at a lower temperature?
I haven't attempted to acclimate (acclimatize indeed!) thru culturing;
however, we used Wyeast #1728 (Scottish Ale) at about 55F and achieved what
we were
looking for--a somewhat relaxed ferment and production of a 3:1 gravity drop
per the book _Scotch Ale_ (Noonan?) from AOB. I don't know the specs on
1728, but it certainly had no trouble at 55F--except we had to hot start it
(70F).
My impression from the _Scotch Ale_ book is that for the traditional
Scottish
ales, one tries to do everything to make life miserable for the yeast, with
the
objective of much unfermented fermentables in the final product (malty).
-----------------------
Here's a question regarding our plan form clarifying a brown ale batch
using isinglass..
We currently have a 5gal and a 6 gal carboy each finishing up a ferment
from a single 11 gal brown ale batch. Our plan is to rack these both into
a single 1/2 bbl keg with the recommended charge of liquid isinglass.
We then propose to put an airlock on the keg (just in case) and cool
from the current 64F to maybe 45F and hold there for about a week.
Then, we propose to rack again into our dispensing keg and force
carbonate there preparatory to...well, drinking. The thinking here is as
follows: cool to assist in precipitating out the junk, and rack again to
avoid having so much sediment in our dispensing keg.
Q1: Does this plan sound okay?
We 'think' we detect a slight sulfur smell emanating from the
carboy airlocks--and I suspect autolysis->diacetyl, yet we're still
getting bubbles (at least) 1 per min. This really rankles my butt. We're
already at about 64F, so a diacetyl rest seems out of the question.
This leads me to ask:
Q2: How can the amateur actually detect diacetyl content with
accuracy (my taste buds and nose are useless)--everyone talks about
it but I've never seen any mention of how pro brewers actually MEASURE it.
-------
Several folks wrote me asking for the description of our 3-keg brew unit.
Please look in rec.crafts.brewing for the article entitled "Brewing System
Description". (It's about 11K of text, roughly)
------------------------------
Date: 19 Jan 1995 08:51:07 GMT
From: gmccarthy@dayna.com (Gary McCarthy)
Subject: Response to an old query
In HBD 1608 Robert Parker <parker@mote.Berkeley.EDU> asks
WHY WAS MY SPARGE SO FAST AND EASY?!
I know, once again, I am so far behind in my HBD reading. Life, baby, life!
But to answer the question, it is supposed to be easy! Sure everyone can add
complexity to this hobby, but remember the purpose: To have better beer.
Then put in as much work (or complexity) as YOU want. You are making the
beer you want. You should not expect that someone else will approve of your
methods or your effort, but as long as you make the beer that is great to
you. Then you have then accomplished your purpose.
Unabashed plug for Kate MacLeods' CD Trying To Get It Right on Courier Music
SLC - great folk music w/Matt Flinner on stringed instruments!!
G_Mccarthy@dayna.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:00:00 -0700
From: john.dodson@cantina.com (John Dodson)
Subject: Water Chemistry Gurus...
I found the recent water chemistry discussion very interesting... but I
must admit it was over my head. However it did prompt me to call our
local water lab and ask about our local water supply. I am wondering if
someone would be so kind as to give me a quick and dirty analysis of El
Paso's water. I'd like to publish the analysis in our local brewclub
newsletter and will give you full credit! :^)
Westside of town Eastside
Calcium 26 ppm 47 ppm
Magnesium 3 11
Sodium 150 127
Bicarbonate 190 144
Sulfate 150 143
Chloride 100 (?) 1 (?)
I'm not sure which chloride figure is correct? I undestand chlorides
cannot be removed by boiling(?). Our water does have a considerable
amount of chlorine. Is this water a natural for any particular style of
beer? How would you treat this water? Thanks, I appreciate your time!
... john.dodson@cantina.com
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 13:42
From: CGPCS07.WING@WING.SAFB.AF.MIL (Linscheid, SSgt James)
Subject: Re: heifeweizen recipe?
Mike Spinelli writes:
>I'm looking for a decent extract-based recipe for a Heifeweizen such as
>Weinhenstephan.
I don't normally brew from kits, but the Williams Wheat beer kit is IMHO
fantastic. I have used it three times with rave reviews. My boss is a
confirmed German wheat beer snob after living in Bavaria for a number of
years. He said that I could never produce a beer as good as his beloved
SchneiderWeissen <sp>. Well, to make a long story short, I humbled him.
It is a very good kit. It is also a bit expensive at about $25.00, but
well worth it.
Williams' number is: 800-759-6025
Good luck,
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:52:51 -0400
From: hbush@pppl.gov (harry)
Subject: Re:PET and CO2 again
ANDY WALSH writes:
On a similar line, how about soda kegs?
They have a rubber o-ring that is bound to be more permeable to
O2 than PET! (consider a helium balloon and how quickly the helium
escapes. I know the helium atom is smaller again, but you get the idea).
First off, I've never bottled in PET but can comment on the o-ring
deal. The surface area that gas has to diffuse through in a compressed
rubber o-ring is negligable and the thickness is great. You cannot compare
it to a rubber balloon, in which the exact opposite is true. As long as
there is a good seal, its a no-brainer. The seals on a Grolsch crock top
bottle are a good example of rubber gaskets doing the trick. As for
comparing the taste of beer bottled in glass as opposed to PET, how could
you even say that perceived differences in taste are caused by oxygen and
not by a leaching of some nasty chemicals from the PET bottle material
itself? I guess I'll just keep bottling in glass and minimize my
variables.
By the way, what does PET stand for?
Harry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 15:08:32 CST
From: fitz@fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick)
Subject: yeast preservation ...
John Maxwell writes:
>2. Freezing the yeast, as in Maribeth Raines' (pardon me if I just
>butchered your name, Maribeth...) article in Zymurgy a few years back.
I tried this method a number of times with different yeasts with
no success. Every time I tried to revive the yeast popsicle, the yeast was
dead. I know you can't use a frost-free fridge ... mine is an upright freezer
with the coils in the shelves, temp ~ 0 deg F. I tried different concentrations
of glycerin/yeast starter, even having some mixtures that stayed in the liquid
form at 0 deg. Has anyone had success using this method? I've heard you need
a laboratory grade freezer (-70 deg F?) for this method to work.
I now use an "original starter" method for keeping yeast up to about
6 months. When I get a new yeast pack/tube/culture, I make a starter right
away (32 oz jar fitted with stopper/airlock), build up the culture, then feed
it again and put it away in my beer fridge at 35 deg. The yeast (even ale yeast)
stays happy as long as there is food and it stays active. When I want to use
a stored yeast, I make a new starter and innoculate it with some of the stored
culture. I feed the "original starter" and put it back in the fridge until the
next use. The new starter is active in 24 hours and ready to pitch in 48 hours.
There are exceptions, of course. I like to build up the starters for lagers and
higher gravity beers. Just one more way a frugal (read : cheap) homebrewer
saves his yeast.
Prost!
Tom
P.S. This method was "cultured" from the hop duvel, John Isenhour.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 08:15:17 +1100 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper@mq.edu.au>
Subject: Fusel alcohols
Dear Friends, my fellow Macquarie-ite and brewclubster Ken Willing has
been educating me on fusel alcohols. Now that I have become aware of
them, particularly how they taste :-{, I'm looking for some commentary by
some of you HBDers who know more about it than I do (probably everybody
fits *that* description!). Are they strictly a byproduct of too high a
fermentation temp? Can anything be done to a beer that has 'em, once it's
got 'em? Which yeasts are particularly prone, or not, to producing them?
This is probably of general enough interest for posting, but as always I
am happy to receive private replies. Many thanks, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Never trust a brewer who has only one chin" ---Aidan Heerdegen
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper@mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
....I'm not from here, I just live here....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:24:42 -0500
From: molloy@tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: Call Me Mr. Opinionated
Mr. Op. on water chemistery, I use name brand bottled natural spring water
bought at any store, it always works great. Mr. Op. on inexpensive wort
chillers, we all have one, I call mine a sink, use ice cubes and watter
it works great. Mr. Op on plastic bottles (PET) whatever, Charlie P.
would puke if he knew you were treating the nectar of the gods in that manor.
Mr. Op. on containers, I use Grolsh bottles their perfect, 16 oz. so you need
fewer when bottling and their not too big I.E. 22 oz. so if you open one
early you don't have to choke down to much flat beer, Oh! and no I don't care
if I stole them. Bottles are also great because you can take them to all
kinds of neet places and show off your brewing talents, of course if your
beer is in plastic bottles you probably don't have any friends to visit
anyway. One last note about kegs, if you have one, you now have more friends
then you know what to do with "been there"
P.S. Grolsh bottles would have to be the crime of the century, all that
stainless steal, ceramic, rubber seal, that fancy thick glass.
"Somebody Stop Me"
Disclaimer: All comments were made in fun! If you were offended
"relax, have a home brew"
BELL'S RULES Kalamazoo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:35:32 -0400
From: hbush@pppl.gov (harry)
Subject: B-Brite, Bleach, Sanitizing, etc.
I'm new to the HB Digest, so my apologies if this topic has been
discussed already ( my SINCERE apologies if it has been discussed ad
nauseum- it has that potential). I've hooked up with a new Homebrew
supplier who emphatically maintains that B-Brite is NOT a sanitizer and
merely a beerstone cleaner.
Of course we know that good ol' Clorox is a great sanitizer, but I
had been previously led to believe that B-Brite was an oxygen-type bleach
(similar to Clorox 2) and would do the trick just as well. My reason for
using it was simple- I'm a male and therefore sloppy. Spilling bleach and
bleach/water from a chugging carboy as you empty it is the norm, and I
didn't want to worry about ruining the clothes I had on. With B-Brite, I
wouldn't have to worry, because, like Clorox 2, it's color safe!
So I'm back to bleach for now, but what's the deal? Is B-Brite an
acceptable sanitizer, or do I just wear my homebrew clothes?
Harry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:51:21 -0500 (EST)
From: MARK KEMPISTY - 957-8365 <MKEMPISTY@gic.gi.com>
Subject: Capping 2L PET bottles.
Hello all,
How does one cap 2L PET bottles? Do you just crank down on the original
cap?
Happy brewing!
- -- Mark
------------------------------
Date: 19 Jan 95 15:49:00 -0600
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: O2 permiability/acid rest and decoctions
Andy writes:
>and report back later. On a similar line, how about soda kegs?
>They have a rubber o-ring that is bound to be more permeable to
>O2 than PET!
When considering the permiability of a material to a particular gas,
you must consider the area and the thickness. Comparing the rubber
O-ring of a soda keg to a PET bottle, consider that the area of the
O-ring is probably less than 4% of the 2-liter PET bottle and that the
thickness of the O-ring is probably 20 times that of the PET bottle.
Therefore, even if the rubber O-ring was 10 times more permiable
than the PET bottle, the rate of diffusion would still be 50 times
lower with the soda keg.
*****
Our mailer croaked a couple of days ago and a post of mine was probably
lost into the ether. I don't recall most of the things that I mentioned,
but I do recall one. Jim Busch correctly explained the mechanism of the
acid rest, namely the enzyme phytase, at about 95F, will convert phytin
into phytic acid. This is the first rest in the classic, Bohemian triple-
decoction. However, he did not mention that you don't *have* to do a
decoction mash to use an acid rest. Although you do not get the other
benefits of decoction mashing (i.e. higher extract efficiency from
undermodified malt and increased malt flavours), you can still make use
of the acid rest to acidify your mash even if you use a stovetop-type
mash. Simply mash-in your temperature-controlled mash so the temp
settles at 95F and then go up from there. It's probably not a good
idea to use an acid rest if you are doing a true step-infusion (raising
the temps strictly by adding boiling water) since the volume of mash liquor,
by the time you get to mashout, will be exceedingly large.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 17:02:00 EST
From: "Houseman, David L [TR]" <DLH1@trpo3.Tredydev.Unisys.com>
Subject: Brewing Techniques
To those that are interested, you can contact Brewing Techniques to order by
calling 1-800-427-2993 or e-mail to btcirc@aol.com. Just answering the
question ask; no connection etc....
David Houseman
Groundhog Brewery
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1636, 01/20/95
*************************************
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