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HOMEBREW Digest #1587
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/11/24 01:12:24
HOMEBREW Digest #1587 Thu 24 November 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
IBU Calculations (Zeek67)
Hot Side Aeration, Blowoff Tubes (Philip Gravel)
Witbier (Ulick Stafford)
Hop cuttings...How ? (Paul Jeffrey)
Re: Stepping up Starters (Art Steinmetz)
Jane! Get me of this crazy thing! ("Robert W. Mech")
O2 Danger discussion / double relax (David Smucker)
NDN: Homebrew Digest #1586 (November 23, 1994) (Gateway)
Beer tasting party (EKTSR)
Sorray about that :( (BobbyRatt)
Coriander in Yeast Starters (Rob Reed)
Re: blow-off (Allan Rubinoff)
Counterpressure bottling (Greg Holton)
Methodologies--one answer and one question... (RONALD DWELLE)
California Lager Yeast (Guy Mason)
yeast at priming (Btalk)
Yeast effect on head retention? (ALKinchen)
George Fix's Filtration Talk at AHA 94 (Al Marshall)
First infection / modified Zapap (MHANSEN)
All Grain Questions (GubGuy)
SLUGGERS (Why bother with GROWLERS?) ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
Re: Batch primimg, recipe request (claytonj)
disappointing lager (Eamonn McKernan)
Hop question (Mario Robaina)
growlers (Jeff Frane)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 20:21:30 -0500
From: Zeek67@aol.com
Subject: IBU Calculations
I am currently writing a spreadsheet to formulate recipes and make some
brewing calculations. All is going well until I started working on an IBU
formula. The problem arises in the hops utilization. At first go, I used
the Time vs. O.G. chart that Papazian gives in NCJOHB. This gives a maximum
utilization of 30% at a 60 min. boil for a 1.040 gravity. When I consulted
the CAMRA book Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home by Wheeler and Protz, they
assume a maximum utilization (o.g. not given) of 20%. This is a major
difference! In fact when I check their recipes this seems right on based on
amount of hops used and IBU for style. I also consulted Eckhardt's book The
Essentials of Beer Styles and found his IBU style guidelines to match the
Protz book. If I use Papazian's utilization percentages based on my previous
batches (which were properly hopped for style) I find the IBU's calculate to
be way too high.
I noiticed that Gary Bell is also finding the same problem as he stated the
following different IBU's using different formulas for the same Winter
Welcome recipe:
"*Note: The hopping above gives the following IBU's based on different
calculation methods: (1) SudsW 43.2,(2) Rager 75.7, (3) Tinseth 66.9,
(4) Garetz 56.7, (5) Papazian 58.9"
For a gravity of 1.044 I have come up with the following utilizations (5 gal.
full wort boil using hops plugs):
60 min.: 20.6%
30 min.: 10.3%
10 min.: 4.5%
The formula is 0.30 - (o.g.-0.95) for 60 min boiled hops.
What are other people using? I would like this to be accurate so that I can
formulate recipes based on commercial recipes. BTW, the above mentioned
CAMRA book has recipes and profiles for over 100 commercial english beers.
It's quite good.
~Zeek
ZEEK67@AOL.COM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 22:37 CST
From: pgravel@mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Hot Side Aeration, Blowoff Tubes
===> Thomas55 ask questions relating to hot side aeration (as did
Dan FitzGerald earlier):
> Mr Palmer mentions that he doesn't like the practice of
>pouring hot wort into cool water waiting in the carboy but doesn't
>say why? Does this harm or change potential flavors? Is there any
>potential gain by ensuring that when the wort is cooled enough to
>be susceptible to infection it is locked safely in a sanitized
>fermenter?
Exposing hot wort to air leads to chemical reactions in which some
of the components in the wort are oxidized. This leads to flavors
in the beer which resemble wet cardboard. Typically, wort at tem-
peratures above 140^F is susceptible to hot side aeration (HSA).
Between 90^F and 130^F, the wort is most susceptible to bacterial
infection. Below 80^F, the wort is at its optimum for yeast growth.
The use of a wort chiller helps to bring the temperature down rapidly
through those temperature ranges where the wort is at risk of HSA and
bacterial infection.
===> Thomas55 asks about blowoff tubes:
> Another practice that Mr Palmer doesn't mention but I've seen
>others recommend against is the use of a "blow off" tube for the
>initial stages of fermentation. I know that some worry about the
>possibility of exploding glass and five gallons of wasted beer!
>I use this method but with out the stopper and small tubing
>Papazian describes. I use a single piece of tubing large enough
>to fit snugly in the neck of the carboy - about an inch inside
>diameter! ( I don't remember what size and since it is currently
>in use I can't readily measure it!) I don't see how anything could
>clog this and cause any pressure buildup besides the slight
>pressure of the 1 inch or so of water I submerge it in to keep out
>any uninvited guests. Am I missing something about this practice?
If you're going to use a blowoff tube, the method you describe reduces
the risks of the tube clogging to about nil. People use blowoff tubes
to catch the krauesen which can froth out of the fermenter. It sure
beats having the krauesen coming up through an airlock. If you use a
fermenter with a sufficiently large head space, you'll get no blowoff.
>Is there really any benefit of the removal of "excessively bitter
>hop resins" as Papazian describes? I also understand that the
>Krausen (foam) may contain some concentration of fusel oils of
>which it is a further benefit to reduce or eliminate from your
>beer?
Although Papazian is a proponent of blowing off krauesen, discussion
of this subject that I have seen here and in rec.crafts.brewing
indicates that this is not a universally held belief.
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel pgravel@mcs.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 23:55:31 +0000
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick@ulix.rad.nd.edu>
Subject: Witbier
There was a recent discussion of Wit beer making, and the following is my Wit
beer recipe that recently won best Belgian Ale at the Chicago Beer
Society's Spooky Brew contest. I made the beer having never tasted a Wit
beer from vague descriptions of the procedure, and I had to make a number of
modifications to my procedure.
The bill consisted of 4.4 lb of flaked wheat (purchased at a food market),
9 oz of oat flakes, and 5 lb of Belgian Pilsener malt. The wheat and
oats were boiled in 10 qt of water. This was added along with 4 qt of
cold water to the malt which had been mashed into 6 qt of 55 F cold
water. The temperature of 114 F was held for 10 minutes. Then I pulled
a thick `decoction' and heated it to 160 and held the temperature for
5-10 minutes. I did this because I had read that Wit were made with two
pots but without boiling decoctions to save enzymes in the malt poor
mash. When returned to the rest mash the temperature rose to 128 F,
which was held for 15-20 minutes. 40-50% thick decoction was again
pulled and heated to 150-160 for 10-15 minutes. When returned the
temperature of the mash rose to 140. This was repeated and the
temperature rose to 144. At this point 2 tsp of amylase was added, and
the mash held for 1.5 hours. An iodine test was negative. Then the
temperature was risen to 160 for 20 minutes, before mashing out at 168.
The sparge was slow, requiring frequent knife cuts in my copper manifold
Gott. It was sparged with 24 qt of water after recycling 10 qt. The
hops (25 g 12.8%aau Nugget) were added at 60 minutes of the 90 minute
boil. Orange peels and coriander (no note of quantity) were added at 5
minutes before boil off. After 30 minutes the chill was started
(immersion) and 1/2 oz of Durkee Orange flavoring was added. The total
volume was 7 gallons of 11 B wort. 2 quarts were canned for priming.
The beer was pitched with a starter made from a Belgian Ale called `Bos
Keun', because Wyeast white was unavailable to me. However after 2 days
with no activity I added slurry of Wyeast '007, German Ale. After a further
12 days the beer having reached 3 B was deliberately contaminated with a
fist full of malt and racked to a carboy. After 4 more days the beer had
a lacy top and had reached 2.5 B. It was pasteurized by heating to 160
prior to rapid chilling, the bottling wort and some fresh '007 were
added, and 74 bottles were filled.
The beer was judged by a National and an Experienced (not BJCP) judge,
and both gave it 41/50. The bouquet and aroma were described as citric
with either `hints of spice' or `no spice aroma to speak of'. The
appearance was `fizzy', tight creamy head, nice hazy shine, white
opalescense. Flavor was `Pretty authentic witbier taste. Nice lactic
tang. Spicing pretty light. Wheat flavor expressed well. Balance
nice.' and `Malt character dominates fruit and spice; should be drier'.
Body was about right or a little full. Overall more fruitiness and
coriander were recommended.
However, despite being a blue ribbon beer the opinion of most of my
friends who have tried it is bad. This is both due to unfamiliarity with
the style, and the overwhelming alien nature of some of the flavors. I
probably won't make the style again for this reason, but I hope the
description of my procedure helps those of you who wish to try.
__________________________________________________________________________
ADVERTISEMENT. Ph.D. Chemical Engineer | Dr. Ulick Stafford
seeks industrial research position. | P.O. Box 46, Notre Dame, IN 46556
http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html | Ulick.Stafford@nd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 08:56:43 +0200 (WET)
From: Paul Jeffrey <mspaulj@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Hop cuttings...How ?
Greetings to all in brew-land,
This year I grew my own hops in the back yard and I'm hooked. Just like
other foods, the finished product tastes better if you have grown some of
the ingredients with your own paws. I ordered 4 rhizomes from a well
known US company and although only two of them survived the passage
accross the Atlantic, I harvested a reasonable first year crop from them.
Now I WANT MORE !!
So...the question is, can I take cuttings myself from the rootstock to
provide me with more bines next year, and if so, when and how do I do it
??
Private EMail OK.
All the best
PaulJ.........
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 23:17:43 -0500
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Stepping up Starters
npyle@hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM writes:
>why bother stepping up the starter size?
I suspect the reason is less room for competing organisms. A
higher ratio of good yeast cells to sugar molecules will make
it tougher for bacteria and wild yeast who will get crowded
out.
That said, suppose you're in this situation (as I was
recently). The yeast you pitched is doing nothing so you want
to pitch some more. Do you make a starter or just pitch an
unswollen Wyeast pack?
The wort is sitting there doing nothing. I believe you need to
get some good yeasties in there ASAP.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 05:04:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech@eagle.ais.net>
Subject: Jane! Get me of this crazy thing!
> Date: 22 Nov 1994 00:05:13 -0000
> From: Gateway@foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
> Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1584 (November 21, 1994)
>
> Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:
>
> ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site.
> Check that the name has been entered correctly.)
Just who IS this person and place and why the hell havent they been sent
10 cases of over primed, skunked, cloudy, infected beer?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 06:28:43 -0500 (EST)
From: David Smucker <smucker@use.usit.net>
Subject: O2 Danger discussion / double relax
Over the last week or so of the HBD there as been a discussion about the
safety of the use of O2 for wort aeration. Jim Busch points out the
difficultly of reaching high concentrations of O2 in say a small room of
12 feet by 12 feet by 8 feet. Jim is correct, but there is one
additional factor, high pressure gas tanks are just not that big!
The largest one you can own in most areas is either a size S at 150 cubic
feet or a size 160 at 160 cubic feet. (Actual volume of a size S is just
under one cubic foot so at a supply pressure of 2250 psi divide by 14.5
psi (one atmosphere) times .97 cubic foot we get 151 cubic feet.) Even
the very large industrial high pressure type K tanks are only 242 cubic
feet which in general you can't own, only lease. (Some parts of the
country do lease a size T at 2640 psi which holds 330 cubic feet.) Very
large volumes can be obtained from liquid O2 tanks but you are unlikely
to have these at home.
The point of all of this is that if you vented a whole tank for most of
us you would get only a 150 cubic feet of pure O2. I have used my 160
cubic foot tank to do at least 15 --15 gallon batches, done a bunch of
metal cutting and brazing and I still have about 600 psi on this current
tank.
By the way I still feel that using pure O2 is the single biggest
improvement I have ever made in my brewing.
So with Jim, I say relax and relax again.
Now the CAUTION -- HIGH PRESSURE GASES CAN BE DANGEROUS. Pure O2 and oil
or grease can cause spontaneous combustion so directing high pressure O2
on to oily clothing can cause a serious problem, (but you will not burn
up your wort). You are most likely to hurt yourself or someone else by
knocking over a 100 pound tank or worse yet knocking off the valve and
you then have an unguided missile. HIGH PRESSURE GAS TANKS SHOULD ALWAYS
BE TIED OFF. I feel that other gases especially acetylene and propane
and good old gasoline are much more dangerous than an O2 tank. Reason,
because leakage can result in a bad explosion and/or fire. It pays to
know what you are doing and storing these in your house or basement is
just a plain bad idea.
One other thing while on the subject of O2. There are normally three
grades of O2, Industrial, USP (conforms to the purity standards of the
United States Parmacopoia) and Aviator's Breathing grade. Aviator's
Breathing and USP are the same except that the AB grade has a max of 6
ppm of H2O (vs. 50 ppm for the other two) so that it has a dew point of
-83 F. It doesn't freeze up at high altitude. My understanding of the
difference between Industrial and USP is that USP has a very strict
requirement that the pressure tank has never been used for any gas accept
USP O2. Most suppliers fill both from the same source. My beer gets
Industrial grade. It is 99.5 % pure, but may contain a max of .5 % of
argon, neon, helium, nitrogen, CO2, (total not each). That better than
air and my beer likes it that way.
Dave Smucker <smucker@use.usit.net>
Knoxville, TN
------------------------------
Date: 23 Nov 1994 02:50:36 -0000
From: Gateway@foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1586 (November 23, 1994)
Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:
ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check
that the name has been entered correctly.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 07:14:40 -0500
From: EKTSR@aol.com
Subject: Beer tasting party
Here's a light hearted subject to ponder and respond to: I have introduced
my wife to the joys of better beers thru selective purchases of better
microbrewed beers and thru attendance of festivals. She is so convinced now
that our megaswilling friends are in need of enlightenment she wants to host
a beer tasting party. (Actually, any excuse around our merry household
serves as a basis for a party ! !) My question and quest is what beers would
you suggest we serve?? I had thought of doing a style party: ie, all pale
ales from different brewers, but this would limit the experience of our
friends who might never have tasted yet might enjoy a wheat beer, an alt,
etc. So, the next thought was a light to dark party: start with a light beer
(not a LITE beer (:-) ) and go thru pales, IPA's,
dunkels, stouts, etc.
My question is: has anyone done this before?? What beers did you serve?? If
we choose to serve approximately 10 beers; which ten would you serve?? Keep
in mind a megaswilling pallete that is open to new experiences.
THANKS!! I'll post the results when they're in.
Stan White, Bloomfield CT.
ektsr@aol.com
"the way to BE is to DO"--Lau Tsu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 08:57:26 -0500
From: BobbyRatt@aol.com
Subject: Sorray about that :(
I won't waste much bandwidth with this, other than to say that I'm sorry
about the message that got posted in Tuesday's HBD. I didn't find this out
until it was too late to pull it back. I've deleted the HBD address from the
mail list I used so that this will never happen again. Once again, Sorry:(
Bob Surratt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 08:56:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Coriander in Yeast Starters
With all this talk about building up and fermenting lager yeast
starters near the planned batch fermentation temperature, it got
me to thinking about:
Coriander
If I am planning to brew a coriander beer, should I put some
coriander into the yeast starter to allow the yeast to
mutate, thereby developing enzymes to deal with the coriander
in the main fermentation. Also, if I am streaking out yeast,
should I add coriander to the agar media for the reason above?
Also, has anyone put together a Coriander FAQ?
TIA,
-Rob Reed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 09:20:29 EST
From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff@BBN.COM>
Subject: Re: blow-off
The last paragraph of my post on blow-offs in HBD #1586 was a bit muddled:
>I know most commercial brewers use blow-offs, but I wonder where the
>hose is attached to the fermenter. I suspect at the bottom, not the
>top. If that's so, this would mean that trub would get blown off,
>rather than krausen.
What I meant was this:
Some commercial brewers apparently use blow-offs. (I can't cite
specific brewers, but people have seen these on brewery tours.) But I
suspect that even those brewers who do use blow-offs don't allow the
krausen to be blown off (unlike homebrewers). This is just a guess --
anybody know for sure?
Allan Rubinoff
rubinoff@bbn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 09:32:14 -0500 (EST)
From: greg@kgn.ibm.com (Greg Holton)
Subject: Counterpressure bottling
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 10:33:41 -0500
> From: dsetser@nttfsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Dave Setser)
> Subject: Kegs to Bottles
>
> I've just purchased all the equipment necessary for kegging my homebrew,
> and love the convenience. The one problem that I've encountered is
> that of bringing samples to club meetings, friends, etc. Does anyone
> know of a method whereby I can condition my beer in the keg, and then
> use the keg to fill a limited number of bottles? Common sense tells
> me that if I just dispense to the bottle and cap it, I'll have problems.
> I'd appreciate any response - the more detailed, the better. Thanks
> in advance!
>
> Dave Setser
>
Dave --
What you need is a counterpressure bottler. They can be bought for
around $50 or made for around $20. Attached is a description of the
one I made, which works very well. I use it to bring bottles to club
meetings or otherwise share with friends and to enter in contests.
The $20 I quoted assumed having some of the odds & ends around
my house, but you shouldn't have to spend much more than that.
The ball cock valves vary a lot in price -- I got them for about $3
from a plumbing supply place. All parts are brass 1/4" pipe thread.
/^\ <-- liquid in
/ \ CO2 in
_/ \_ 1/4 hose barb
| | /^\
|___| / \
| | _/ \_
_____|_ | ball cock valve | | hose barb
|_______| | |___|
|__ | | |
| | 1/4 compression | | ball cock valve
| | fitting | _|________
- - | |__________|
| | 1/4 copper tubing | |
| | | |
- - 1/4 compression |---|
| | fitting | | CO2
__| |___________________ _____________| |_______ _________ out
| | | | [_____ |
| |--| |__ _________|_|___
| tee nipple tee | |>>
| |--| |--|______________|
--|| ||------------------| |-------------------------
|| || 3/8 compression fitting air spray
\---|| ||---/ nozzle for
\ || || / rubber stopper (fits bottle neck) bleeder
\ || || /
/ | | \ 3/8 OD copper tubing (~ 1.5 inch)
| | flared if possible.
| |
| | 1/4 copper tubing runs through 3/8 tubing
| | (from liquid inlet connection)
| |
| |
A short piece of plastic tubing on the end
will help to compensate for different bottle
lengths, so you're always filling from the bottom
of the bottle and not splashing.
To use, connect liquid inlet to the keg outlet and CO2 inlet to the CO2
cylinder. Insert filler into neck of bottle. Pressurize bottle with CO2
and bleed off several times (purges air from bottle). Pressurize again
with CO2, allowing about 5 secs to completely pressurize. Close CO2 valve.
Open liquid inlet valve. At this point, the pressure in the bottle should
be the same as that of the keg, so no beer flows. To cause the beer to
flow, crack the bleeder slowly and control flow by bleeding off CO2 pressure
a little at a time (that's why I like to use a trigger-type spray nozzle
there instead of another ball cock valve). Don't let if flow too fast or
it will foam and lose carbonation. Close liquid inlet valve (easy to forget,
but you'll only make that mistake once!). Cap off quickly (Grolsh bottles are
good for this purpose).
Good Luck.
Greg Holton
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 09:47:21 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: Methodologies--one answer and one question...
I mix my priming solution and wort this way:
1) I draw off a couple tablespoons of the wort for a hoppy taste
test.
2) I then make a priming solution by adding corn sugar, brown
sugar, molasses, honey, or dme to about a quart of water (or maybe use
gyle) and bring to a boil. (If my hopping is not right, I add hops at
the end of the boil and clamp a lid on tight for 5 minutes. If I'm
spicing, like for my recent Triple-Xmas Ale, I add the spice here as
well.) (BTW, I made a bad mistake and tried adding "allspice" to a
thanksgiving ale--gaaaaaack!)
3) I then gently pour the hot quart in the bottom of my primary
plastic bucket (pouring it through a kitchen strainer if I have added
hops).
4) I then (here's the secret) siphon the wort into the primary
bucket by laying the siphon hose in a half circle around the edge of
the bottom of the bucket, so it is lying in the priming solution. As
the wort comes out, it swirls around the bucket and mixes with the
priming solution. This swirling continues throughout the whole siphon
(you can see the whole mass swirling the whole time) and I always get
a good mix. In about 30 batches of using this method, I've never had
uneven priming in the bottles.
Now my methodology question. In the olden days, I never used to mash
out, but instead would just start sparging after conversion. After a
little reading and some intelligent notes on the HBD, I decided I
should always do a mash-out, by raising the temperature before
starting to sparge. Well, in my last three batches, I've been getting
some astringency--a bad taste--that I suspect is coming from spotty
overheating during mashout or sparging. I've tried both heating the
mash in a kettle on the stove (but I think I get bad hot spots in the
mash) and pouring 200-205 degree water into the mash ala Papazian, to
bring the mash temperature up to mash-out (but I think I get the same
kind of over-hot spots). Also, to keep my sparge up around 170, I've
been either applying heat to the pot or sparging with water hotter
than 170, and thus inviting more tannin leaching and astringency.
So, what's the method to keep the mash-out temperature uniform without
overheating parts of the mash, and to keep the sparge temperature
uniform without overheating parts of the sparge? (And don't tell me
RIMS, unless you're willing to give me a setup--I'm on a tight budget
and incompetent at do-it-yourselfing.)
Cheers,
Ron Dwelle(dweller@gvsu.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 9:44:09 EST
From: Guy Mason <guy@polo.matrixnet.com>
Subject: California Lager Yeast
Happy Thanksgiving Fellow HBDer's,
I'm dying to try a lager recipe now the several ales have been made with
great success. My problem is temperature, I don't have room for an extra
fridge and the basement storage for my apartment stays fairly constant
at 58-60F. I can't hook up a fan to use the evaporation/wet towel method to
get the temperature any lower. My homebrew supply store information source
says that Wyeast California Lager yeast works well up to 62F, while retaining
lager characteristics. What's the work on this yeast? Does it work well
for Pilsner's, Continental Lagers, Bocks, etc.
Thanks and remember
California from Spanish caliente meaning hot and fornicate meaning sex...
The land of hot sex!!!
- --
//-n-\\ The KLINGON
_____---=======---_____ IMPERIAL FLEET
=====____\ /.. ..\ /____===== Its not just a job
// ---\__O__/--- \\ Its an ADVENTURE !
\_\ /_/
We destroy more by 9AM than Romulans do all day!
Guy Mason
Matrix Software
guy@matrixnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 10:16:53 -0500
From: Btalk@aol.com
Subject: yeast at priming
Recently there have been a couple posts that mentioned adding fresh yeast at
priming bottling. The point was that the beer would condition more quickly,
like in a weeks time. There was also something about improving shelf life.
Interesting idea which naturally leads to questions!
What is the likelyhood of over carbonation from doing this? Or does the beer
just carbonate to the same point sooner?
How much yeast/starter to use? Any yeasty flavors that develop?
Thats it for now.
Later,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY<btalk@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:03:08 -0500
From: ALKinchen@aol.com
Subject: Yeast effect on head retention?
Brewed a Boh pils: pils(bin said Ireks, later learned it was D-C), crystal,
Saaz. Infusion mash. Protein rest, high sach rest. Split into two 5-gallon
batches. pitched Wyeast Bohemian (2124) in half and Wyeast Czech (2278), both
with 1 1/2 qt starters. Same temperature ferment (48^F) 4 weeks. Kegged,
lagered 6 weeks (33^F). Bottled with identical corn sugar prime. Stored cold.
Both crystal clear.
The 2124 batch has a good head. The 2278 batch has a FANTASTIC head. Best
ever. Slow collapse. Great lace.
I am truly confident that the only difference in the two batches is the
yeast, but never heard of such a yeast effect.
Does anybody have any ideas.
Al K
ALKInchen@AOL.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 08:46:59 -0800 (PST)
From: alm@ibeam.jf.intel.com (Al Marshall)
Subject: George Fix's Filtration Talk at AHA 94
Are the proceedings from the AHA 94 conference in Denver available?
Can someone comment on the usefulness/completeness of the section
documenting George Fix's talk on filtration assuming that one was not
present at the talk?
Thanks in advance;
-- Al Marshall
alm@ibeam.intel.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:19:35 -0600
From: MHANSEN@ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject: First infection / modified Zapap
Hey brewers,
I have been brewing for a little over a year (14 batches) and have never
had an infected batch. However last night, I bottled a batch that tasted
like vinegar. Yuck! I am guessing acetobacter or lactobacillus infection. I
just moved to a new place and this is my first batch made at the new
location. I use good old household bleach and I am pretty anal about
sanitation. Is it possible that there is a bacteria indiginous to my new
location that I did not have at my old location and as a result I may have to
change my sanitation procedures? This is discouraging because the last
beer I brewed at the old location took second in a recent competition.
Any ideas on eradicating this beast if it lives somewhere in my new
kitchen? Wiping everything down with bleach? Nuking the building?
In a post a few months ago I described my modified Zapap lauter tun and
wanted to report that the initial results were pretty good (about 75-80%
efficiency). A little tweeking and this thing will be great. The tun is made
of a single 7.5 gallon plastic bucket insulated with bubble wrap that is
coated on both sides with a foil-like material. Kept temp up in the tun very
well. The bucket is fitted with a stainless steel false bottom that I
fashioned out of a cylindrical flour sifter that professional chefs use. It
fits snuggly in the bottom of the bucket with about 1 inch of space for
foundation water. I attach a 3/8" tube to a plastic nipple that goes through
the side of the bucket and false bottom to draw the wort away. This
setup, sans false bottom, also serves as my bottling bucket. The whole
thing cost me about $35 to make.
Brew on my friends,
Mike (michael-d-hansen@uiowa.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 12:28:19 -0500
From: GubGuy@aol.com
Subject: All Grain Questions
Greetings fellow HBD'ers!
From the Beer Wastelands, I call upon you for your help. Being a recent
convert to all grain, (just finished my 4th batch) I have read through
numerous sources in my quest for better beer; including, but not limited to,
all FAQ's and text files in the Sierra archives that I can access. But
reading is not doing, and there is still much that can be learned from
experience (either your own or someone elses.). What it boils down to is
this: I have no brewing partners < 175 miles away. There are no local Homebr
ew Clubs. My nearest decent supplier is still 100 miles away, and the only
local people I know who brew are the ones I've persuaded into doing it
(extract only, BTW). With this in mind, I have ran across a few questions
that would best be answered by experienced all grainers.
Extraction rate. For my last 2 batches, I have acheived OG's of ~1.042.
Some specifics:
#1 was 5 lb German Wheat, 3 lb Vienna, 2 lb 2 Row. Doughed in @ 122 for a
temp of 115 for 30 min (my target temp was 104). Added 1.25 gal boiling
water - temp 144 (was trying for a 140 temp) for 30 min. Removed .5 gal
wort, brought to boil and returned to mash - temp 150 (was trying for temp of
158) for 20 min. Sparged with 5 gals 170 deg water (no gypsum, lactic acid,
etc). I apparently forgot to record the time of the sparge, but was probably
45 min to an hour. OG=1.043
#2 was 8 lb 2 Row, .5 lb 20 Crystal, .5 lb 60 Crystal, .5 lb 120 Crystal, .25
lb Cara-Pils, 2 oz Chocolate, 2 oz Black Patent. All grains were added to
the mash. I was going to do a single step infusion mash, but somehow my
temps got messed up. I was shooting for a target temp of 156. What I did
was bring 2.5 gals up to 175, added all my grain and got a temp of 145 (this
was assuming about a 20 deg drop in temp with adding grain, as per Papazian,
pg 296). Thinking this was too low, I let it sit for 30 min. Then added
1.25 gal boiling water, brought it up to 165, held for 60 min. Again sparged
with 5 gals water, this time at 180 deg (again, no additives). Sparge lasted
45 minutes. OG=1.040. My total water content was a bit high, ending up with
about 6 gallons of wort, so I think the OG was pretty consistent with batch
#1.
Enough background, on with the questions. I assume this means I'm
getting approx 20 pts/lb/grain. Is this correct? Is this good, bad,
average? I use a zapap lauter tun with no insulation. Batch #2 I added a
thermometer to my grain bed; temp was 155. Is this too low, i.e. should it
be the same temp as the sparge water? Is there an easy way to improve my
yields (read inexpensive)? And how about reaching your strike temp? Is
there a better, more reliable method than what I've been using? I'm making
pretty good beer now, but there is always room to improve.
With my current system 10 lbs of grain seems about the limit of what I
can use. If I wanted to, say, make a Dopplebock, what suggestions for
raising the OG would be feasible? This is assuming I don't want to cheat and
add DME. I was thinking perhaps using 10 lbs in the regular way, but taking
an additional 4 lbs of crystal for steeping in a separate pot, then boiling
down until I can add it to my big boiling kettle with the runoff from the 10
lbs that need to be mashed. Or maybe even making two separate batches and
boiling both down to about 3 gals then combining the two? Anyone used either
of these methods? Is it a reasonable alternative, or would I just be
creating much more work for myself?
Any hints, tips, suggestions (please, keep them clean!) welcome. But
wait, there's more.
With lagering season now upon us (at least us without any extra
refrigeration units), I have been thinking of several ways to go about this.
I have a back bedroom, that if kept unheated reaches temps of ~50 deg in the
coldest part of winter. That would seem to be OK for the primary (?, I
really haven't lagered before), but not quite cold enough for the secondary.
I have two things in mind: #1, use said bedroom, with 2ndary in a large tub
of water, supplemented with ice cubes or reusable ice packs every 12 (?, or
sooner) hours.
#2, build some kind of insulated box for outside to keep the temp constant.
I was thinking maybe a large cardboard box, lined with styrofoam & plastic
(to keep the wind chill factor out of the equation), or perhaps even spending
$10 on a roll of fiberglas house insulation, again with plastic for wind
protection (and to keep the little particles out of everything!). Has anyone
tried something similar, and if so, how did it work for you? Is an outside
container like I described able to keep a constant temp inside when outside
has a large fluctuation?
Sorry about being so long winded, but my options for help in these
areas is a bit limited (for the above stated reasons). If you must, private
email, but I think this is the kind of thing that should be discussed here
for the benefit of other newbie all grainers. TIA to all who make this a
resource as valuable as all my reference books. They can't be replaced, but
they can certainly be discussed, challenged, and improved upon.
GubGuy@aol.com Nunc est Bibendum (Latin; "Now is the time to drink")
-Ray Ownby- "In Wine there is Truth" -Dostoyevsky
Moses Lake, WA ("In vino veritas")
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 14:40:35 EST
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: SLUGGERS (Why bother with GROWLERS?)
With all this talk of "Growlers", I think "Sluggers" should
be mentioned also. "Sluggers" is the slang term that my friends use
to describe my use of 22 oz Champagne bottles. It was hatched from
two different (cloudy) thoughts:
- ..."They look like a softball bat..."
- ..."They're sure more than a mouthfull..."
At any rate, sluggers can be had at any recycle center (check
the green bin). Like a returnable, they can be capped by any lever
capper and most of the arbor style cappers with the standard caps.
There are a few brands that have a slightly larger diameter and can't
be used, so take along a cap to test the one's you suspect.
These are some of the brands I have found to work:
- Korbel Brut
- Martenelli Sparkling Cider
- Ballatori Grand Spumanti
- Maison Duetz Brut Rose
- Great Western New York Champagne
- Andre Dry Champagne
- Eden Roc Brut
- Andre Cold Duck
- Totts Blanc De Noir
- Espirit Sparkling Red Grape Juice
- Chateau St. Jean
I personally prefer the Korbel Brut and the Martinelli Cider
bottles, they are nice and dark and robust. Just don't bonk anybody
with one!
A myriad of 22 oz beer bottles are also out there, amonst them
Sam Adams Tripple Bock, Rogue Red Ale, Oasis Red Ale, etc.
Again, go to your nearest recycle center, especially around the
holidays. I have been told that the green glass doesn't even have any
recycle value for these centers; its just cheaper to dispose when
separated from the main waste stream. It's also handy to bring a
"pick stick", which is a ten foot pole (1 inch pine bannister), with
a piece of 1/8 to 1/4" rod bent in a hook taped to it to snag those
hard to get (middle of the dumpster) bottles. Don't be bashfull; most
people, when you tell them that you are a homebrewer, will exhibit
reactions ranging from amazement to treating you like some kind of
alchemist ("You create beer from the elements ?!?!?!!!!"). Whatever
works ...
Glen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 14:11:54 EDT
From: claytonj@cc.tacom.army.mil
Subject: Re: Batch primimg, recipe request
Greetings,
In HBD 1585, Bones, "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>" writes:
>...<snip>...
>My problem(s) is(are)
>inconsistent carbonation from bottle to bottle and generally low carbonation.
>I thought this method was supposed to increase consistency!
>...<snip>...
>I assume the problem stems from inadequate mixing of the
>priming sugar with the beer or stratification, but I've been reluctant to
>stir in the fear of introducing oxygen.
I bulk prime using corn sugar and a 5 gal. plastic bucket with a spigot
attached. Before racking to the bucket, I boil 1/2 to 3/4 cups of corn sugar
(depending on the carbonation I want) with 1 pint of water for about 10 min.
I cover the pot and set it on the basement floor to cool while I get set up.
I pour the sugar water into the bottom of the bucket (without splashing) and
rack with the hose on the bottom of the bucket. As mentioned many times
before, racking releases some of the CO2 dissolved in the beer providing a bit
of a blanket above the beer in the bucket. I take my sanitized brewing spoon
and move it from the bottom to about 3/4 the way to the top, using the side as
a fulcrum, to create an upwelling current that mixes the beer and priming
sugar. I move the spoon fast enough to make a visible current on the top but
am careful not to splash or disturb the CO2 layer on top. Do this four or
five times and bottle as usual. I get consistent carbonation in the bottles
and have noticed any oxidation problems. I think the upwelling motion mixes
better than just stirring.
Now for a question. I want to try my hand at brewing a stout and feel I
should go big or go home so, does anyone have a recipe for Grants Imperial
Stout (I love this stuff)? Maybe you took a tour and can pass along the some
of the ingredients so I know where to start. TIA.
Cheers,
Joe Clayton
Farmington Hills, MI
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 16:41:52 EST
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn@rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: disappointing lager
I could use some advice from the 'collected wisdom' out there. I have
an all-grain lager sitting in the secondary slowly bubbling away, and
I'm wondering why I bothered to brew it myself. It tastes like a light
version of Molson Ex. Mind you, one really has to search for any taste
at all, the stuff has so little flavour to it.
If I wanted swill, I could hit the local Brewers retail, and save myself
the shame of admitting that I'm responsible for such lousy beer. (apologies
to fans of ultra light beers).
The details:
2 step infusion mash at ~130F and 150F with lots of temperature
variations in my uninsulated pot. Mashout, sparge, boil etc
I don't have my ingredients here, but it was a hodgepodge of various
lager recipes mixed together, no major surprises. I think it was mainly
6 row, plus some munich malt. over 2 oz of hops if memory serves
(Hallertauer?) in various stages of addition over 60 min.
Wyeast California lager yeast reputed to be good at ale temperatures.
No I don't have a fridge, but my basement has been steady between 13
and 15 Celcius. I week in primary (2 carboys). 3 weeks in a 6gal glass
secondary and still bubbling! OG 1044 or slightly higher. SG 1011 at
racking to secondary. Still near 1011 as of last night.
What can I do to save this? Is it wise to add more fermentables at this
stage of the game? In fact, is it ever wise to add fermentables after
fermentation has gotten under way except for priming? I don't really want
any more alcohol in the beer. Maybe some fruit flavouring, or malto-dextrins
for (dare i hope for) beer flavour. Hell I'll dump jalapeno peppers in
there just so it doesn't taste like alcoholic water!
I thought that the wonderful sweet wort I tasted before pitching was
sure to give me a great lager (my first lager attempt). But boy was I
wrong!
While on the subject, If anyone knows of a pilsner recipe for ale
temperature ferments, I'd love to hear them . Preferably all grain.
Something like Becks maybe.
Thanks for listening,
Eamonn McKernan
eamonn@rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca
(this means I'm from Toronto) :>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 14:05:30 -0800 (PST)
From: sprmario@netcom.com (Mario Robaina)
Subject: Hop question
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 16:22:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch@teleport.com>
Subject: growlers
The last few days people have referred several times to breweries
selling "growlers", but haven't put them in any historical context.
At one time, this was one of the most common ways to get beer onto the
table at home: someone (usually one of the kids) was sent out to "rush
the growler", which meant they trotted around the corner to the local
pub/brewery/tavern with a bucket (apparently, old lard tins were
particularly handy) to fill with beer for mom and dad's dinner. This is
all pre-Prohibition, of course. Bottles were available, but this was
often preferred -- perhaps bottled beer wasnt that great, or maybe too
expensive. Most likely, this was the best way to get fresh beer on the
table.
I've heard that the term "growler" referred to the reaction at home when
the bucket arrived less than full, but this may be apocryphal.
Here in Oregon, the brewpub laws inacted a few years back ensured that
people could take beer home from draught sites (taverns, brewpubs,
etc.) and something very like a growler became quite popular.
Initially, people could bring their own vessels, but I think the law was
revised somewhat. After a short time, the OLCC apparently required
brewpubs to seal the containers, and some initial attempts included a
heat sealer that wrapped a little band around the cap. Presumably, this
had to do with open container laws (transportation in a motor vehicle)
rather than any problems with people wandering around with open bottles.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1587, 11/24/94
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