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HOMEBREW Digest #1599
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/12/08 00:24:28
HOMEBREW Digest #1599 Thu 08 December 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
lambic...NOT / priming / low-alcohol beer (uswlsrap)
Spanish Peaks Black Dog Ale ("Blahnik, Vance")
Worlds Cheapest Counterpressure Filler! (Glenn Anderson)
Kraeusen crud ("nancy e. renner")
1-800 Brew Catalogs (James A Lindberg)
Champagne bottles, Fermentaps, faux lambics ("Harralson, Kirk")
Aeration - To easy to be healthy? (Rick Starke)
FOOP (Domenick Venezia)
carboy glug-no-more (FFWJOHN)
Sam Adams <TM> Hops (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Sam Adams Triple Bock ("Dave Suurballe")
Pots/Temperature Control (JSTONE)
Aeration procedures / Hop Teas (MHANSEN)
GLATT MILL INTEGRITY (Evan Kraus)
Roller Mill Project Complete (Chris Barnhart)
smoking grains (MicahM1269)
Re: Steam Bock (Jim Ancona)
Re: Water Heater Conversion (Keith Frank)
Don't Throw it out! (George Kavanagh O/o)
UNANTICIPATED FERM TEMP (Charles Wettergreen)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 11:23:13 EST
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: lambic...NOT / priming / low-alcohol beer
- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------
To: I1010141--IBMMAIL
From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst
Subject: lambic...NOT / priming / low-alcohol beer
Tim Laatsch in LarryLand asks about Lindeman's:
Can you say expensive fruit soda? I knew ya could. (In fact, you did in your
post whether you know it or not.) Yes, lambics are supposed to have a sour
character (and lots of other things). I'm no expert, just a satisfied
imbiber,but stay away from that Lindeman's swill! If you want to get a little
more information, try subscribing to the lambic-digest. The discussion covers
Belgian brews generally, but you get some real lambic-heads there who will tell
you more than you ever imagined you'd want to know. Send subscribe request to
lambic-request@lance.colostate.edu
Eugene Sonn asks about priming:
I prime by starting with the boiled corn sugar and water in the bottom of the
"target" bucket and rack the beer on top of it with the hose on the bottom of
the bucket. The "swirling" action seems to be enough to mix the sugar and the
beer. Make sure your hose is long enough to lay on the bottom of the bucket and
you should have no problem getting a consistent mix without any other stirring
or splashing (which you want to avoid anyway).
Don Ulin asks about non-alcohol beer:
I don't know about _non_-alcohol beer, but I have made a decent enough
low-alcohol beer. OG was 1.024, with a pound of carapils in five gallons to
give it some body. Nothing remarkable, but good enough for a third place ribbon
at the Wisconsin State Fair among a wide range of styles (i.e., the category
for anything that didn't fit in a category). Go easy on the hops. It was a
cheap enough experiment--two cases for $7-8: One 3.3 pound bag of NW extract, a
pound of grain, hops totalling about an ounce, and a pack of (yes) dry yeast.
Pierre Rajotte's Belgian ale book in the style series gives a recipe for a
table beer he calls "Driver's Choice." OG is 1.016. Haven't tried it. I can
recall the published OG because I recently had the book out while giving
telephone advice to someone on tripels (how's that for a contrast in alcohol
content?) and paged by that part of the book. Not that one shouldn't be
careful, but my understanding from recent research (only a newspaper reader's
knowledge) is that the alcohol and pregnancy thing has been overstated.
It's hard to imagine that an occasional 1.016 beer should be a problem for
a healthy person. YMMV. I'm not a physician and I don't play one on TV.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 94 11:00:00 PST
From: "Blahnik, Vance" <vanceb@p01.uci.com>
Subject: Spanish Peaks Black Dog Ale
Does any body out there know what the hop profile in Spanish Peaks' Black
Dog Ale is. I really like the flavor and am unable to determine what hops
are used.
Thanks!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:25:05 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271@appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Beer flavor not wheel but log
The 'beer flavor wheel' is an attempt to standardize a language through which
tasters can agree on a word to flavor corelation. I don't know why it's in
the form of a wheel, but if the wheel is unraveled, it looks a lot like this.
Pay particular attention to the lack of indentation for this report. If you
use it, indent using the following standard:
Class 1
0110
0111
0112
Class 2
etc.
I hope that you find this useful in trying to communicate just what you're
tasting in your beers, meads, wines, sakes, ciders, or feathers...
Rich Webb, Kent, WA USA
Recommended descriptors of Beer Flavor
Relevance Key:
O: Odor
T: Taste
M: Mouthfeel
W: Warming
Af: After flavor
Class Term Relevance Comments, synonyms, definitions
Class 1 - Aromatic, Fragrant, Fruity, Floral
0110 Alcoholic OTW The general effect of ethanol and higher alcohols
0111 Spicy OTW Allspice, nutmeg, peppery, eugenol. See also 1003 Vanilla
0112 Vinous OTW Bouquet, fusely, wine-like (White wine)
0120 Solvent-like OT Like chemical solvents
0121 Plastics OT Plasticizers
0122 Can-liner OT Lacquer-like
0123 Acetone
0130 Estery OT Like aliphatic esters
0131 Isoamyl acetate OT Banana, peardrop
0132 Ethyl hexanoate OT Apple-like with note of aniseed.
See 0142 Apple
0133 Ethyl acetate OT Light fruity, solvent-like. See
also 0120 Solvent like
0140 Fruity OT Of specific fruits or mixtures of fruits
0141 Citrus OT Citral, grapefruit, lemony, orange-rind
0142 Apple
0143 Banana
0144 Blackcurrant OT Blackcurrant fruit. For Blackcurrant
leaves use 0810 Catty
0145 Melony
0146 Pear
0147 Raspberry
0148 Strawberry
0150 Acetaldehyde OT Green apples, raw appleskin, bruised apples
0160 Floral OT Like flowers, fragrant
0161 2-Phenylethanol OT Rose-like
0162 Geraniol OT Rose-like, different from 0161. Taster
should compare the pure chemicals
0163 Perfumy OT Scented
0170 Hoppy OT Fresh hop aroma. Use with other terms to
describe stale hop aroma.
Does not include hop bitterness (See 1200 Bitter)
0171 Kettle-hop OT Flavor imparted by aroma hops boiled
in the kettle.
0172 Dry-hop OT Flavor imparted by dry hops added in tank
or cask.
0173 Hop oil OT Flavor imparted by addition of distilled hop oil.
Class 2 - Resinous, Nutty, Green, Grassy
0210 Resinous OT Fresh sawdust, resin, cedarwood, pinewood,
sprucy, terpenoid.
0211 Woody OT Seasoned wood (uncut)
0220 Nutty OT As in Brazil-nut, hazelnut, sherry-like
0221 Walnut OT Fresh (not rancid) walnut
0222 Coconut
0223 Beany OT Bean soup
0224 Almond OT Marzipan
0230 Grassy
0231 Freshly-cut grass OT Green, crushed green leaves,
leafy, alfalfa.
0232 Straw-like OT Hay-like
Class 3 - Cereal
0310 Grainy OT Raw grain flavor
0311 Husky OT Husk-like, chaff, 'Glattwasser'.
0312 Corn grits OT Maize grits, adjuncty
0311 Mealy OT Like flour
0320 Malty
0330 Worty OT Fresh wort aroma. Use with other terms to
describe infected wort, e.g. 0731 Parsnip
Class 4 - Caramelized, Roasted
0410 Caramel OT Burnt sugar, toffee-like
0411 Molasses OT Black treacle, treacly.
0412 Licorice
0420 Burnt OTM Scorched aroma, dry mouthfeel and sharp
acrid taste.
0421 Bread-crust OTM Charred toast.
0422 Roast-barley OTM Chocolate malt.
0423 Smoky OT
Class 5 - Phenolic
0500 Phenolic OT
0501 Tarry OT Pitch, faulty pitching of containers.
0502 Bakelite
0503 Carbolic OT Phenol.
0504 Chlorophenol OT Trichlorophenol (TCP), hospital-like.
0505 Iodoform OT Iodophors, hospital-like, pharmaceutical.
Class 6 - Soapy, Fatty, Diacetyl, Oily, Rancid
0610 Fatty acid
0611 Caprylic OT Soapy, fatty, goaty, tallowy.
0612 Cheesy OT Dry, stale cheese, old hops. Hydrolytic rancidity.
0613 Isovaleric OT Dry, stale cheese, old hops. Hydrolytic rancidity.
0614 Butyric OT Rancid butter.
0620 Diacetyl OT Butterscotch, buttermilk
0630 Rancid OT Oxidative rancidity.
0631 Rancid oil OTM Oxidative rancidity.
0640 Oily
0641 Vegetable oil OTM As in refined vegetable oil.
0642 Mineral oil OTM Gasoline (petrol), kerosene (paraffin), machine oil.
Class 7 - Sulphury
0700 Sulphury OT
0710 Sulphitic OT Sulphur dioxide, striking-match, choking,
sulphurous-SO2
0720 Sulphidic OT Rotten egg, sulphury-reduced, sulphurous-RSH
0721 H2S OT Rotten egg
0722 Mercaptan OT Lower mercaptans, drains, stench
0723 Garlic
0724 Lightstruck OT Skunky, sunstruck
0725 Autolysed OT Rotting yeast (see also 0740 Yeasty).
0727 Shrimp-like OT Water in which shrimp have been cooked
0730 Cooked vegetable OT Mainly dialkyl sulphides, sulphurous-RSR
0731 Parsnip / celery OT An effect of wort infection
0732 DMS OT Dimethyl sulphide
0733 Cooked tomato OT Tomato juice (processed), tomato ketchup.
0736 Cooked onion
0740 Yeasty OT Fresh yeast, flavor of heated thiamine
(see also 0725 Autolysed).
0741 Meaty OT Brothy, cooked meat, meat extract, peptone, yeast broth.
Class 8 - Oxidized, Stale, Musty
0800 Stale OTM Old beer, overaged, overpasteurized.
0810 Catty OT Blackcurrant leaves, ribes, tomato plants, oxidized beer.
0820 Papery OT An initial stage of staling, bready (stale bread crumb),
cardboard, old beer, oxidized.
0830 Leathery OT A later stage of staling, then often
used in conjunction with 0211 Woody.
0840 Moldy OT Cellar-like, leaf-mold, woodsy.
0841 Earthy OT Actinomycetes, damp soil, freshly dug soil,
diatomaceous earth.
0842 Musty OT Fusty.
Class 9 - Sour, acidic
9000 Acidic OT Pungent aroma, sharpness of taste, mineral acid.
0910 Acetic OT Vinegar
0920 Sour OT Lactic, sour milk, Use with 0141 for citrus-sour.
Class 10 - Sweet
1000 Sweet OT
1001 Honey OT Can occur as an effect of beer staling, e.g. the
odor of stale beer in a glass, oxidized (stale) honey.
1002 Jam-like OT May be qualified by sub-classes of 0140 Fruity.
1003 Vanilla OT Custard powder, vanillin.
1004 Primings
1005 Syrupy OTM Clear (golden) syrup.
1006 Oversweet OT Sickly sweet, cloying.
Class 11 - Salty
1100 Salty T
Class 12 - Bitter
1200 Bitter TAf
Class 13 - Mouthfeel
1310 Alkaline TMAf Flavor imparted by accidental admixture
of alkaline detergent.
1320 Mouthcoating MAf Creamy, 'onctueux' (Fr.).
1330 Metallic OTMAf Iron, rusty water, coins, tinny, inky.
1340 Astringent MAf Mouth puckering, puckery, tannin-like,
tart
1341 Drying MAf Unsweet.
1350 Powdery O Dusty cushion, irritating (with 0310 Grainy)
mill room smell.
TM Chalky, particulate, scratchy, silicate-like, siliceous.
1360 Carbonation M CO2 content.
1361 Flat M Under carbonated.
1362 Gassy M Over carbonated.
1370 Warming WMAf See also 0110 Alcoholic and 0111 Spicy.
Class 14 - Fullness
1410 Body OTM Fullness of flavor and mouthfeel.
1411 Watery TM Thin, seemingly diluted.
1412 Characterless OTM Bland, empty, flavorless.
1413 Satiating OTM Extra-full, filling.
1414 Thick TM Viscous, 'epais' (Fr.).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 13:04:13 -0500
From: gramps@interlog.com (Glenn Anderson)
Subject: Worlds Cheapest Counterpressure Filler!
I've been shopping around for parts to make a CP filler and before
purchasing anything I stopped to analyze exactly what I was doing. I want to
fill a bottle with minimum oxidation/foam/loss of carbonation.
Here's what I do. Step 1, purge the bottle with CO2, I simply connect an
empty keg to a dispensing tap and give the empty a shot. Step two, fill the
bottle with my funky-new-filler(tm). Step 3, cap, store and drink.
How to build the funky-new-filler(tm): attach about 6 inches of 3/8 tubing
to the end of the keg tap (or whatever size fits your tap well). Attach
about 10 inches of rigid plastic or SS tubing to the end of the 3/8 tubing
(again, or whatever fits). Slide a #2 bored stopper over the rigid tubing,
far enough on so that the tube extends almost to the bottom of a bottle when
the stopper is seated snugly.
Place the funky-new-filler(tm) into the bottle, and press the tap to start
the beer flowing. The bottle will fill about 1 inch before the pressure
equalizes inside the bottle to the keg pressure (I use 15 PSI to dispense).
At his point some skill is required, and can be obtained through practice.
Gently squeeze the stopper and some of the pressure will leak by, allowing
beer to flow. continue to squeeze in a pseudo-controlled fashion until the
bottle is full. I fill until beer actually leaks by, assuring me that the
bottle is void of any gas, be it air or CO2. Remove the funky-new-filler(tm)
and there will be about the right ammount of headspace to satisfy the
judges. Removing the filler will draw air into the bottle as the level
drops, but I figure no more than an expensive commercial filler.
Total cost for the filler, 45 cents.
...Glenn
Glenn Anderson
Manager, Telecommunications Facilities, BCS
Sun Life Of Canada
EMAIL: GRAMPS@INTERLOG.COM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:04:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Kraeusen crud
(From *Jeff* Renner)
Okay, we've all talked about the benefits of blowoff, skimming, etc,
and danced around the *real* $64,000 question. Just what is that waxy
brown crud on primary walls, blowoff tubes, etc.? I've seen this argued
for twenty years (Zymurgy, Dave Line, everybody else.) Some say it is
your precious isomerized hop acids, and that removing it will reduce your
hopping bitterness. Others say that it is some unwanted bitter
component (hot break, cold break?) that should be removed or you will get an
unwanted harsh bitterness (ever tasted it? You will be tasting bitter
for many, many minutes). Others say that it is just collapsed kraeusen
(foam). I've heard lots of opinions. Does anyone *really* know? I
mean, like chromatography results or something? Documented facts? This
certainly has bearing on the blowoff/skimming discussion. Please, some of you
chemists, tell us.
Jeff in Ann Arbor, MI c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 12:26:16 CST
From: jal@ted.cray.com (James A Lindberg)
Subject: 1-800 Brew Catalogs
1-800 AND INTERNET BREW NUMBERS FOR HOMEBREW CATALOGS
Big Basin Brewing CA 800-509-2739
Brewers Resource CA 800-827-3983
Fun Fermentations CA 800-950-9463
Great Fermentations CA 800-542-2520
GFSR CA 800-544-1867
South Bay Homebrew Supply CA 800-608-2739 74557.1102@compuserve.com
Williams Brewing CA 800-759-6025
Yeasty Brew Unlimited CA 800-928-2739
Maltose Express CT 800-625-8673
Barley & Hops Trading FL 800-810-4677
Hearts Homebrew Supply FL 800-392-8322
Sebastion Brewers Sply FL 800-780-7837
Brew Your Own Beverages GA 800-477-2962
The Whistle Pig GA 800-947-5744
S.P.S. Beer Stuff IA spsbeer@ins.infonet.net
The Brewer's Coop IL 800-451-6348
Alternative Garden Supply IL 800-444-2837
Heartland Hydr & HB IL 800-354-4769
Beer & Wine Hobby MA 800-523-5423
The Modern Brewer MA 800-736-3253
The Vineyard MA 800-626-2371
Brew N Kettle MD 800-809-3003
Gus's Discount Warehouse MI 800-475-9688
The Yeast Culture Kit Co MI 800-742-2110
Brew and Grow MN 800-230-8191
Pine Cheese Mart MN 800-596-2739
James Page Brewery MN 800-347-4042
Semplex MN 800-488-5444 jiminmpls@aol.com
Wind River Brewing MN 800-266-4677
The Home Brewery MO 800-321-2739
Alternative Beverage NC 800-365-2739
BrewBetter Supply NC Brewbetter@aol.com
Stout Billy's NH 800-392-4792
Coyote Home Brewing Suply NM 800-779-2739
The Brewmeister NJ 800-322-3020
Red Bank Brewing Supply NJ 800-779-7507
Brew By You NY 800-986-2739
Brewers Den NY 800-449-2739
The Brewery NY 800-762-2560
Hennessey Homebrew NY 800-462-7397
The Hoppy Troll NY 800-735-2739
New York Homebrew NY 800-966-2739
Great Lakes Brew Supply NY 800-859-4527
US Brewing Supply NY 800-383-9303
The Grape & Granary OH 800-695-9870
Brew Ha Ha PA 800-243-2620
Beer Unlimited PA 800-515-0666
U-Brew SC 800-845-4441
BrewHaus TN 800-638-2437
DeFalco's TX 800-216-2739
Homebrew Sup. of Dallas TX 800-270-5922
St. Patrick's of Texas TX stpats@wixer.bga.com
The Brewer's Club VA 800-827-3948
HomeBrew International VA 800-447-4883
Something's Brewing VA tayers@aol.com
The Homebrew Store WA 800-827-2739
Evergreen Brewing Sup. WA 800-789-2739
Jim's Homebrew WA 800 326-7769
The Cellar WA 800-342-1871
The Stumbling Dwarf WA 800-789-4273
Belle City WI 800-236-6258
Market Basket WI 800-824-5562
North Brewing Supply WI 800-483-7238
The Brew Place WI 800-847-6721
The Malt Shop WI 800-235-0026
U.S. Brewing Supply 800-728-2337
BrewShack 800-646-2739
Highlander 800-388-3923
Hoptech 800-379-4677
Stout Billy's 800-392-4792
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 94 13:26:40 EST
From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh@roadnet.ups.com>
Subject: Champagne bottles, Fermentaps, faux lambics
Stephen Tinsley writes about Champagne Bottles:
>champagne bottles (I spelled it wrong yesterday) are an excellent way to
>bottle beer, and that American bottles work and foreign bottles don't.
<snip>
> Again, go to your nearest recycle center, especially around the
>holidays. I have been told that the green glass doesn't even have any
A better alternative is to find a local restaurant with a champagne brunch and
ask if you can take them. I have about ten cases of champagne bottles (along
with the original boxes) that came from one place. They are much easier to
rinse if you get to them within an hour or so. These have several advantages --
they hold more, most have a concave bottom that traps yeast settlement and they
are made with VERY thick glass. I dropped a full bottle on concrete from waist
level and it did not break. Disadvantages include not fitting on the top rack
of my dishwasher (this is a huge disadvantage to me), they will not fit upright
in my refrigerator except on the top shelf and somtimes I'm in the mood to only
have 12 ounces (very, very rare). You can also bottle wine in these bottles,
but the id of the neck is smaller, and you have to really force the cork in.
Surprisingly, they aren't that bad to get out. I have also tried using the
plastic corks with wire wrappers for sparkling meads, but either they did not
contain the pressure or my mead decided not to sparkle...
Pete Misiaszek writes about the FERMENTAP:
>I purchased two Fermentaps about a month ago and have put them through
>their paces. I have to say, I like them alot. What the Fermentap consists
<snip>
>harvesting as well as draw-off of spent hops and break. By connecting two
>in series, CO2 from the primary can be vented into the secondary to purge
>it, and the beer can be racked to the secondary "closed-system" without
>siphoning. The parts seem to be top quality, and the service has been
I thought one of the big advantages to these systems was that primary and
secondary fermentation could be done in the same carboy by simply draining the
break material, spent hops, etc.. Has anyone had any trouble with these
leaking? I have heard only positive comments about these and I am considering
buying a couple.
Timothy P. Laatsch writes about Lindeman Kriek Lambic:
>I recently had my first opportunity to taste an "authentic" Belgian Kriek
>Lambic. It's made by a company called Lindeman's and comes in a miniature
<snip>
>a cherry beer/champagne. It was certainly drinkable, but just not what I was
>expecting based on what I've read. My question to the more seasoned
>imbibers: Is this typical of the style or did I just purchase an expensive
>dud? Thanks for your patience. BREW ON!
Someone else wrote recently that Samuel Adams Cranberry Lambic was not actually
a lambic at all. This is the only "lambic" I have ever tried, and I liked it
quite a bit. I have been looking at lambic recipes and thinking about making
something similar to SA. If this is not a lambic, I guess I have no idea what
one tastes like either. What would SA Cranberry Lambic actually be classified
as? No matter what it is, I would still like to make something like it.
Kirk Harralson
Bel Air, Maryland
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 14:08:35 EST
From: fastarke@rickstr.mawes.ingr.com (Rick Starke)
Subject: Aeration - To easy to be healthy?
Good day Brew Crew,
A while ago there was a thread regarding improving the performance of your
little yeastie dudes by ensuring proper aeration. I had never really thought
to much about this, but I took it to heart, and, after pitching, commenced
to shaking/stirring until my need for oxygen was greater than my yeasties.
Well, of course, like the rest of the collective wisdom here, this added the
desired effect (a more vigorous/complete ferment)... mostly. One day while
chilling a batch of Cranberry-Honey Porter, and sending my little yeastie
beasties for their before dinner bath (rehydrating), I was contemplating this
"Aeration thing" and decided to try pouring the cooled, sterile wort through
the strainer I use for sparging, (plain old SS basket screen kitchen type
strainer) ala' your kitchen faucet aerator. I poured about 1/3 of my 1.060
wort in through the strainer (lotsa bubbles) sent my yeastie dudes in for
dinner, and poured the rest of my wort in through the strainer. (lots more
bubbles) A very vigorous ferment started within hours and my brew was down
to 1.010 within a week (that was when I checked it). As for an unscientific
data point, my brother brewed a Porter the next week which he didn't do this
to, 1.048, and we wound up bottling at 1.022 (with our fingers crossed). Two
weeks later we brewed a Pale Ale, used this method (same yeasty family-Edme)
and that dropped to 1.011 in a week.
My question... what's wrong with this, it seems to easy. I am more into the
hobby/art of brewing than the "science". I understand that pouring my cooled
sterile wort through the air could induce nasties, but I figure if beer was
brewed in the "old days" by people who rarely even bathed, I won't kill mine
by pouring through a strainer. I am not really worried, I more want to know
if I happened upon a cheap, easy way that may benefit others without worrying
about aquarium pumps, airstones, inline oxygen injection and saturation
points.
By the way, after many worries, the Cran-Honey Porter will probably be OK...
preliminary tastings indicate the possibility that I used too much cranberry
(4.5 lbs), The regular porter tasted GREAT at bottling, but hasn't been
"officially" taste tested yet. The Pale Ale is in secondary, and I am
preparing to sacrifice more virgin (never flocculated) yeastie dudes. Maybe
an Imperial Stout.... hmmm.
Back to "Lurker-land"
Rick Starke
fastarke@ingr.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:47:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: FOOP
Both Don Rudolph and Maribeth Raines mention fried eggs and the
agglutination/coagulation of albumin as an analogy for the proposed
mechanism of FOOP. First albumin is a complete globular protein, not a
short peptide. Second, frying/poaching/scrambling an egg at temperatures
at or above the boiling point of water is a considerably more drastic
action than shaking cold beer in a keg. I don't think that you can use a
fried egg as an analogy for, or an example of, FOOP.
That said, and after following the discussion, I must say that the
argument that denatured peptides will in some measure associate with each
other, i.e., agglutinate, and thereby no longer be available for foam
production has merit. I've also been convinced that the breaking of
chemical bonds is not a factor in FOOP. There are still a lot of "ifs".
If FOOP is a real phenomenon. If the hydrodynamics drives the refolding
equilibrium to the agglutination side. If agglutination actually removes
peptides from foam production.
Some tests come to mind.
Just shaking beer flat beer should reduce its foam production. This is a
qualitative test of the existence of FOOP.
If denatured peptide agglutination is a factor then boiling beer and
rechilling should reduce foam production considerably, although I
routinely do 2 hr boils and get good breaks, my beers foam just fine.
Also, I think I just contradicted my first paragraph. Maybe nobody noticed.
Shaking beer should alter the molecular weight profile of the protein. If
FOOP exists and is due to bond breakage then the profile should move to
lighter (shorter) peptides, if agglutination is a factor then the profile
should get heavier.
I know that I can do the first test easily, just flatten some beer (gently
pour into a bowl and allow to outgas for 24 hrs) then put a measured
amount in a graduated cylinder, stopper and shake (by hand) a given
amount. Measure and note the height of the foam. Shake the remaining
beer on a lab shaker for 24 hrs and repeat the hand shake test. If enough
people do it perhaps we can come to a consensus. Send me your protocols
and your results and I'll compile them.
The second test (boiling) can also be done using the hand shake test.
Again send me your protocols and your results.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 94 13:55:37 CST
From: FFWJOHN@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu
Subject: carboy glug-no-more
Here's a tip for users of narrow mouth glass carboys. It is
impossible to pour liquids from these carboys with a lot of
sloppy glugging as air is sucked in through the liquid stream.
A simple homemade vent will cure the problem. Use a length of
old siphon tubing a foot or so long. Bend the piece of tubing
into a U-shape. Insert one end into the carboy past the neck
of the opening. Hold the other end along the outside of the
carboy. If you are using a carboy handle, you can use the handle
to hold the outside portion of the tubing in place.
Clean pouring - no more splashing cleaning solutions - and the
carboy will drain MUCH faster than before.
-John Krstansky
------------------------------
Date: 6 Dec 94 19:21:00 GMT
From: mlm01@intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Subject: Sam Adams <TM> Hops
This is not an advertisement for nor support of Samuel Adams.
I came across an ad that stated Boston Beer Co. <TM> was offering the
same hops that are used in Sam Adams <TM> beers (Hallertau Mittlefreuh)
for sale to the public. I remember the radio ad and the picture in Boston
Beer Co.'s <TM> newsletter showing Jim Koch <TM> handpicking whole flower
Noble Hops. I thought that I would like to try these hops, at $12/pound
and no shipping - not too bad of a deal. 2 months went by, then I finally
received a package from Boston Beer Company. I opened the package, and to my
surprise i found pellet hops. Now I use pellet hops on occasion, but I had
assumed that Sam Adams <TM> was made with whole flower hops. I still don't
have a problem with pellet hops, but why does Jim Koch <TM> go to the
trouble to say that all his hops are hand picked. I didn't know that there
was a big difference between 1 pellet or another. Oh well, enough rambling.
I need a beer.
Mike Montgomery
mlm01@intgp1.att.com
------------------------------
Date: 6 Dec 1994 14:45:11 -0800
From: "Dave Suurballe" <suurb@farallon.com>
Subject: Sam Adams Triple Bock
The bottle label of Sam Adams Triple Bock says it's made in
Ceres, California. I don't know of any breweries over there;
are there any readers in the Modesto area that can help
identify the source of this beer? I know there's some
wineries around there, like Gallo, but I hesitate to think...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 13:58:19 PST
From: JSTONE@SJEVM5.VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: Pots/Temperature Control
For those of you considering spending the money for a Sabco pot, you
may want to consider an alternative. I purchased two 15G SS Vollrath pots
(with lids) from Something's Brewing in Vermont, 802-660-9007, for $155,
each. Something's Brewing had the pots shipped directly from Vollrath (in
Wisconsin) to Precision Brewing Systems (PBS) in Stanton Island, 718-667-4459.
Ask for Ellen (at Something's Brewing) and mention my name if they have
questions regarding direct shipping the pots.
PBS offers a number of modifications: bottom drains, thermometer welds,
false bottoms, ... and they will entertain custom modifications as well.
For my sparge vessel, I had them weld a SS 0.5" fitting and SS 1" fitting
adjacent to one another, approximately 2" up from the bottom of the pot.
The 0.5" fitting accepts a thermowell and an I.C. temperature sensor and
the 1" fitting accepts a hot water heater element. The hot water heater
element is NOT a standard 1" pipe thread. PBS had the fitting custom
made. If you're interested in the hot water heater element fitting, ask
for Ken, mention my name and I'm sure they'll fix you up.
In my opinion, their workmanship is excellent. Their false bottom is an 18
gauge SS disk with punched holes, custom-made for a (relatively) tight fit.
One of the disadvantages of this geometry, as opposed to say an EM or slotted
pipe, is the fact that a significant amount of recirculation is required to
establish the grain bed. I had a terrible time with astringency until I
introduced a recirculating pump into the system. Initially, I used the pump
to recirculate during mash out (10 - 15 minutes). This seemed to adequately
clear the wort while minimizing HSA.
With my automated system, which involves a water heater element in the
recirculating path, the wort will be recirculated through the duration of
the mash.
In a prior append, Don (DONBREW) mentioned variations on the Rodney Morris
temperature controller circuit. Up to this point in its development, I'm
very happy with my decision to use solid state relays (SSRs) as my main
temperature controller circuit. Having a PC (with an I/O card) at the heart
of the system makes temperature control trivial (and in my opinion, somewhat
elegant). The temperature is read by the PC from an I.C. temperature sensor
and used to control the state of the SSR (on or off). I've been experimenting
with the control algorithm. Initial measurements suggest I can hit a target
temperature with no more than 1 oF of overshoot and maintain the temperature
within +-0.5 oF. I've only tested the algorithm against limited volumes of
sparge water. I hope to begin testing full volumes and the recirculating
path within a week.
For Don, who's looking for a cheap solution, I'm not sure I can help. I
consider Bob McIlvaine an expert in this area (temperature controllers and
monitors ... not cheap ;*). A number of his products are available through
JB Distributing, 603-465-7633, including a temperature sensor with SW which
utilizes the printer port of a PC. Dion also has a lot of experience in this
area. Last time I talked to Dion (HOLLEN), he was still working on perfecting
a board for a Morris-like temperature controller. I suspect these guys will
tell you that the difficulty in integrating a PC with a Morris-like controller
is interfacing a TTL-level signal from a PC into a 110 V circuit (a problem I
solved using the SSR).
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 16:45:24 -0600
From: MHANSEN@ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject: Aeration procedures / Hop Teas
Hey HBDers,
With all this talk about aeration, a procedural question comes to mind.
After the wort is cooled and siphoned into the carboy, many authorities
suggest letting the wort sit overnight and then to rack the beer off the
cold break. What is the proper order of racking off cold break, pitching,
and aerating? At this point, I am more concerned with aerating and
pitching than I am with racking off the cold break. However, I don't have
the best temperature control (crack the window, close the window,
crack the window, etc.) and I am concerned with fusel alcohols being
formed from trub and warm fermentation temps. If I aerate and then pitch,
fermentation is almost always going after 6-8 hours after which it
becomes impossible for obvious reasons to rack off the cold break.
Should I be that concerned with fermenting with cold break and other
stuff that passes through the strainer? Or just aerate, pitch, and forget
it?
Question two about aeration: For those who use aquarium pumps, what
size do you use?
- ---
I recently bottled a Christmas ale that wasn't bitter enough and I wanted
to add more bitterness. Has anyone ever made a hop tea and added it at
bottling time to add bitterness or even flavor/aroma? What I am looking for
is some way to quantify H oz of hops in W amount of water boiled for T
minutes to give me X IBU's when added to Y gallons of beer. Can
someone point me to a source or help me out? Will standard IBU
calculations (Rager, Garetz, etc.) work here? I am aware of bottled hop
oil but I am not sure I want to use it.
Thanks and brew on my friends,
Mike (michael-d-hansen@uiowa.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 6:06:00 EST
From: Evan Kraus <ejk@bselab.BLS.COM>
Subject: GLATT MILL INTEGRITY
This post is not an advertisement
After hearing all this KRAP about the MM and the Glatt
Well I have one of the original Glatt's
To Date I have MILLED (Less then one year)
542 POUNDS OF YOU NAME IT MALT, PALE, CHOCOLATE, BLACK, CRYSTAL, ROASTED,
WHEAT, RICE ETC !!!!! AND PLENTY OF ROCKS !!!!!
With a Right angle Drill attached to the GLATT that runs 500 RPM
WELL MY PLASTIC GEARS SHOW NO WEAR AND HAVENT FAILED YET
WHY NOT STOP THE ATTACKS BETWEEN GLATT & MM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 7:38:44 EST
From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha@letterkenn-emh1.army.mil>
Subject: Roller Mill Project Complete
Hi all,
Thought I would post the results of my recent roller mill project.
First of all, thanks to all the folks who contributed valuable
insight during the initial concept formulation.
My overall goal was to design an adjustable mill using mostly
common, easily obtained parts that is relatively easy to build. The
end result is a mill with these features:
- 2" diameter steel rollers, diamond knurled, supported by sealed
ball bearings.
- Motor driven
- All major assemblies made from hardwood, masonite or particle
board.
- Cost about $100. Lower, if you're a good scrounger (My cost was
$57.00 including the motor!).
For those interested, I have written a description of the project
with bill of materials and a full set (seven) of dimensioned
drawings. Send me a private E-Mail with your snail-mail address
for a copy.
Chris "Barny" Barnhart
clbarnha@letterkenn-emh1.army.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 07:59:25 -0500
From: MicahM1269@aol.com
Subject: smoking grains
Smoking Grains
This is one area of home brewing where I have be told that I have gone too
far, but with
success. I do not have a smoker but I have worked out a way to produce very
good smoked
malt. I use unmalted dried barley ( whole ) let it soak for several days at
50 F then sprout the
grains, let acrospire grown to about 1 inch. And then I put the green malt in
a roasting pan with
many, many small holes punched in it. This is then placed in my bar b que
over smoldering
wood chips. The chips have been soaked in water for several days prior to
prevent burning. I
usually smoke the barley this way over night. After smoking I finish dring
the malt in the oven at
the lowest temperature possible. This may seem like a lot of work but it will
result in excellent
and genuine smoked malt rather than malt that is smoked.
micah millspaw - brewer at large
------------------------------
Date: 7 Dec 94 8:21:17 EDT
From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona.DBS@dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: Steam Bock
In HBD 1598, Jeff Guillet writes:
>Pity me. I am refrigerator challenged and have no way of lagering.
>
>I would, however, like to make a bock (maybe even a dopplebock) using
>Wyeast's California Lager (#2112) and the low temperatures this time of
>year in my garage. Temps range from 38-52F.
I tried the 2112 this fall for a Vienna which I'm very happy with. I then made
a Dopplebock, using the yeast cake from the Vienna as a starter. I just bottled
it last week. It tasted very good at bottling time, and I hope will get better
with cold storage. Both beers were fermented mostly in the 50-58 degree range
in a root cellar (part of my basement). Both are quite malty and the Vienna has
'lagered' nicely into a very smooth tasting brew, one of my best. I have high
hopes for the Dopplebock as well. My 'lagering' involves storing the bottled
beer at temps in the 40's (too high for real lagering). So I say, go for it!
As an aside, the yeast FAQ says, "highly flocculant, clear brilliantly" and
it's not kidding. Both beers are crystal clear, and what little yeast there is
in the bottle attaches itself to the bottom and sides of the bottle. No
sediment when pouring this stuff, but I have to use the bottle brush on each
bottle while rinsing to clean the yeast out!
Good luck!
- --
Jim Ancona janco@dbsoftware.com jpa@iii.net
Opinions expressed are my own, and not those of D&B Software.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 07:49:16 -0600
From: keithfrank@dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Re: Water Heater Conversion
Many years ago, my water heater died also. I removed the burner, mounted
it in a 5 gal. can, and obtained a grating for the top to set my brew pot
on. I spent a couple of bucks to change the orifice to the appropriate
size for propane and voila! I have been using this burner for years and
love it. It even has a pilot light. I have no trouble getting a rolling
boil in 5 or 6 gal. in a short period of time.
Keith Frank (keithfrank@dow.com)
Lake Jackson, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 7 Dec 1994 09:15:11 -0500
From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh@omail.wang.com>
Subject: Don't Throw it out!
In HBD 1598, M_MACADAMS@mail.chester.co.pa.us writes:
>Everything seemed to go o.k. and the O.G. was 1.048. This was
>four days ago and I have seen no action in my "S" airlock, not
>even off-placed water levels. Yesterday I checked the gravity of
>the wort and even though there has been no bubbling, the level is
>down to 1.014. Is it possible that fermentation occurred without
>me realizing it? Does a lower hydrometer reading necessarily
>mean that fermentation is/has occurred? Should I keep taking
>hydrometer readings until it levels off, or should I scrap the
>batch and try again?
Don't scrap it; finish it off!
If the gravity has fallen, there has been fermentation.
You didn't say what type of fermenting vessel you are using:
began with a plastic bucket that came with a "beginner homebrewer
kit", and noticed that the lid dosent fit air-tight. Result being that
initially the airlock bubbled rapidly as large volumes of gas were
produced, but then when the fermentation settled down to a lesser
rate, the air lock didn't bubble, the gas escaped elsewhere rather
than push up the airlock's water to make bubbles. I initially panicked,
since I had been looking forward to watching the bubbles for
several days. The beer, however, was fine.
Depending on the composition of the extract you used, and the fermentation
temp., fermentation may not proceed much past the 1014 you now read.
Relax, etc....
-gk ( George.Kavanagh@omail.wang.com )
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 08:27 CST
From: chuckmw@mcs.com (Charles Wettergreen)
Subject: UNANTICIPATED FERM TEMP
To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Here, I think, is an interesting data point.
I had cooled my 1.090 wee heavy down to 65 degF prior to pitching one quart
of Wyeast Scotch Ale yeast (1968?) (slurry). After aeration with an
aquarium pump, I attached the blowoff tube and a Fermometer (liquid crystal
temperature display, stick-on) to the carboy. I cover my carboys with
quilted carboy cosies to protect from light and prevent temperature
fluctuations.
I usually ferment my Scotch ales in the refrigerator at 50 degrees, but for a
variety of reasons I decided to ferment this one in my 66 degree basement.
After several hours I checked on the state of the ferment. The fermentation
was proceeding nicely with bubbles out of the blowoff tube about every three
seconds.
Imagine my surprise when the Fermometer showed that the carboy was at 74
degrees! I checked my recording thermometer and the temperature was 66
degrees, and had only varied between 66 and 68 degrees. As the fermentation
picked up, to the point where the foam began to blow out the tube and bubbles
were coming out almost continuously, the Fermometer temperature continued to
rise. I don't know where it finished because it was off the scale (>78
degrees) of the Fermometer. Once the bulk of the fermentation had finished,
the Fermometer temperature dropped back down to ambient temperature (68
degrees).
I've checked my thermometers and the Fermometer and I have every reason to
believe that they are reasonably accurate, keeping in mind that the Fermometer
*is* a liquid crystal and only indicates in 2 degree increments.
I think this might explain esters in a brew that were not anticipated because
they were fermented at "cooler" temperatures.
Chuck
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Chuck Wettergreen
Chuckmw@mcs.com
Geneva, Illinois
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
* RM 1.3 *
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1599, 12/08/94
*************************************
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