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HOMEBREW Digest #1600
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/12/09 00:21:11
HOMEBREW Digest #1600 Fri 09 December 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Labeling and inventory control (LeRoy S. Strohl)
Benard convection ("pratte")
Re: More Fermentor Geometry (Bill Szymczak)
winter yeasts (RONALD DWELLE)
The "Good Times" virus and scare (Eugene Sonn)
Beer gifts (RLANCASTER)
(Larry Barras)
HSA / new brewer worries about airlock (uswlsrap)
Re: Czech Pils Yeast (Al Marshall)
water heater conversion (fwd) ("Joel C. Davis")
hot water heater conversion ("Joel C. Davis")
Virus Apology, Relax!..., R ("Joe Klupar")
Ozone water treatment (Domenick Venezia)
s shaped airlocks and early brewing (owen)
Fermentor Geometry ("Manning Martin MP")
Last Call ("Rad Equipment")
Re: Stainless Chiller (Dion Hollenbeck)
late addition of fermentables (Eamonn McKernan)
King Kookers (Christopher M. Goll)
My success story (Patrick Murray)
"Historic" porter recipe (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
virus (CSMOLKA)
Newbie King Kooker Q's (E-Mail Administrator - DHS)
Need help/suggestions for siphoning (Joe Pearl)
sodium metabisulphite (ANDY WALSH)
fermenter geometry (MicahM1269)
HSA and HOPS Contest (Alan Folsom)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 9:34:53 EST
From: LeRoy S. Strohl <lstrohl@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Labeling and inventory control
I have followed with some interest the conversation about labeling-
wehther to do it or not, how to apply, where to put them, etc...and
thought I would add a note about a system I have used successfully for
the past two years. First: yes I do have labels for my beer and apply
them when I am bringing them to BURP meetings or plan on giving them to
others. If you are proud of what you make, let folks know it. The labels
I am currently using have a simple wettable glue and adhere reasonably
well. I do not label all of my bottles - partly because for my own
consumption I know where it came from and partly because I just don't
want to spend the time applying them. There is a small area on the
bottom of the label where I can write in the name of the beer. Second: I
wanted to have a better way of controlling my inventory beyond a brief
experiment using a thin laser print label with date and name that were
applied from the cap top and down the neck - the idea came from
Australia in the top label on Redback. I came across an adhesive backed
clear heavy vinyl pocket that would hold a 4" x 6" card in a Highsmith
catalog (800-558-2110) item number N71-5224, current cost $4.20 per
package of 5. I affixed the pockets to the ends of my beer cartons. When
I have made my batch of beer I then run two copies of the ingredients
list and procedure followed off of SUDS, you can fill out the
information on a 4x6 card, and insert the sheet in the vinyl pocket.
This way I know what is in the carton, when it was made and bottled,
ingredients, etc.. The added benefit is the recipe is right there for
others to write out the ingredient/procedure instruction if they want to
make a batch. When the cartons are empty I retain one sheet with notes
and comments in a binder that I use for brewing notes.
It works for me.
Happy Holidays to the HBD
Roy
- --
***********************************************************
LeRoy Strohl < tel: 703-899-4594 >
Director, Simpson Library < fax: 703-899-4499 >
Mary Washington College
Fredericksburg, VA 2240 < email: lstrohl@s850.mwc.edu >
***********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:47:43 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE@GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject: Benard convection
In today's digest, R. Cushing Hamlen talks about how much more
effective Benard convection is over a long vertical slot convection.
However, there are a few things about this analysis that need
clarifying.
1) Benard convection occurs when you have HEATING on the bottom and
COOLING on top (not on the sides). If I use top-fermenting yeast,
then the heat that is being produced in my tank should be on top.
This tends to cut off any convection. By cooling the sides in a long
vertical slot, I can insure that there is ALWAYS convection in the
tank as long as there is a temperature difference between the sides
of the wall and the body of the fluid (i.e. heat is being produced by
the yeast).
2) If I use bottom-fermenting yeast, then the heat is produced on the
bottom. By cooling on top, I could create Benard cells. However,
there needs to be more than just a temperature difference for Benard
cells to occur. The viscosity and the action of thermal conductivity
tend to act against any cell forming. Benard cells do not usually
occur until a Rayleigh number greater than 1700 is reached (if you
want to know the equation for Rayleigh number, send private e-mail).
Since the Rayleigh number depends on the temperature difference, this
means that you might not be able to realistically be able to achieve
the critical temperature difference for convection to occur and still
be able brew beer.
One other point that needs to be kept in mind during this discussion.
The system that we are talking about (a fermentation tank) is not a
simple system. While there are density differences due to
temperature, there are also density differences due to the
multicomponents in the fluid: alcohol, water, and sugar. These
differences can also cause/inhibit convection in the tank and their
effect would depend on what kind of yeast is being used (top vs.
bottom fermenting). I would say that the answer to the question of
what shape vessel is best for fermenting has many different
parameters that could very well take a lot of research to understand.
John
- --------------------------
Dr. John M. Pratte
Clayton State College
pratte@gg.csc.peachnet.edu
Office (404)961-3674
Fax (404)961-3700
- --------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:00:06 -0500
From: Bill Szymczak <wszymcz%ulysses@relay.nswc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: More Fermentor Geometry
Al Korzonis and Manning Martin have been discussing my blowoff experiment:
Al:
>>The geometry differences do not have to be so great. How do you
>>explain the difference in FG in Bill's experiment? All from blowoff? I
>>would not be so sure without having done the same experiment with
>>similar-geometry fermentors.
Manning:
>The fact that the blow-off batch went much faster says something else is
>going on here. If anything, the blow-off is removing yeast, and should slow
>the fermentation. I think (and I am simply guessing, don't you sometimes,
>Al? ;-)) that a temperature trace for the full carboy would show a higher
>peak, and is again a suspect for an unconstrained variable. The (1-3/8
>gallon) non-blow-off batch had the higher surface area/volume in this case,
>and the CO2 in the space above the beer might even have contributed to
>cooling the non-blow-off batch by convection. Both of these factors would
>surely drive the full carboy to a faster fermentation rate as observed, and
>possibly affect the FG too.
No, the blow-off batch went slower. Of course, I'm not sure what caused
the full carboy (blowoff batch) to ferment slower, but my guess is it was
more likely do to active yeast getting blown out than geometry. I base
this on the fact that I've done similar batches, but with more head
space, so the geometries were similar but less blowoff occurred,
and the fermentation time has never been so long.
In response to Al, even if the geometry had a significant effect on the
fermentation, the most important thing is that the taste was unaffected.
Of course, if I was a professional brewer and lost a week's profit due
to a slow fermentation, I would certainly be more concerned.
>Also, Bill, not to cast aspersions or anything, but do you think you can
>measure accurately to 0.002 in SG? Tell us about your instrument. If it's a
>good one, calibrated to 0.1 P (0.0004 SG), with an internal thermometer, or a
>refractometer, I'll beleive you. If it's the typical amateur type, calibrated
>only to 0.002 SG (0.5 P), I'll wonder.
Yes I only have the typical amateur type and the differences in the FG are
within measurement error. Indeed, the non-blowoff FG was measured without
priming sugar, and it is possible that I measured the blowoff FG with priming
sugar added (this may be a point difference).
Bill Szymczak wszymcz@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Gaithersburg, MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 94 10:03:22 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: winter yeasts
It's winter and cooling down in my brew space. I basically cannot
easily control the temperature of my wort during ferment and tend to
have anything from 50-65 F during a two-week stint. Last winter, I
tried the following yeasts--American Ale (both Wyeast and Yeast Lab),
Canadian Ale (Yeast Lab A07), British Ale (Wyeast 1098), and
California Lager (Wyeast 2112). I believe that I had problematic
results with all--with adverse flavors. I am currently trying an
Australian Ale (Yeast lab A01).
Any suggestions short of investing in some sort of wort warmer/cooler?
Any suggestions for a super cheapo temp controller (I use 5-gallon
carboys, mostly).
Cheers
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:36:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene@sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: The "Good Times" virus and scare
A quick addition to the post on the AOL virus message "good times." A
message with that subject showed up here at Swarthmore College, but it
turned out to be a hoax. Whoever sent it (under a false, unidentifiable
e-mail address) thought it was a great joke to pretend to send people the
virus. I would still caution people to throw out any messages with that
subject, especially when they are from someone you don't know.
Eugene eugene@sccs.swarthmore.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 11:29:36 -0500
From: RLANCASTER@ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Beer gifts
Just sent this to lmenegoni@nectech.com, from Dec. Playboy, pg. 66,
mail beer to friends, micro beers, 1-800-854-beer. Anyone do this,
let us know service, price, beer types, etc. TIA
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
||Randy Lancaster | Tel:202-482-4487 ||
||National Telecommunications | Fax:202-482-4396 ||
||and Information Administration| rlancaster@ntia.doc.gov ||
||Department of Commerce, USA | 1967 MGB # 128,471 ||
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
||Heaven: home brew, driving an MG, but remember...its not||
||a leak, its a British flow through lubrication system! ||
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:33:20 -0600
From: larry@merakusa.com (Larry Barras)
Subject:
Date: 5 Dec 1994 15:42:03 -0800
From: "Joe Klupar" <Joe.Klupar@specastro.com>
Subject: VIRUS ALERT, Please Forward
I received this from a friend at JPL
> >I have just received this message and been asked to take it seriously:
> >
> >There is a virus on America Online being sent by E-Mail. If you get
> >
> >anything called "Good Times", DON'T read it or download it. It is a
> >
> >virus that will erase your hard drive. Forward this to all your friends.
> >
> >It may help them alot.
>
Hi,
Let me start by saying this is NOT AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM AMERICA ONLINE.
I am an AOL remote staffer, I don't actually work for AOL I am just a
volunteer in one of the online forums. This rumor has been flying around a
lot lately and we have been on the lookout for a "good times" virus. Like a
lot of internet folklore, it seems to have no basis in fact.
I don't know of any virus that could affect a PC or Mac by simply reading
electronic mail.
If you are an America Online member and get any kind of suspicious e-mail,
or think you find a virus from AOL, contact customer support online or call
the 1-800 support number.
Please direct any questions about this directly to the America Online
customer support department.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 11:41:51 EST
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: HSA / new brewer worries about airlock
- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------
To: I1010141--IBMMAIL
From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst
Subject: HSA / new brewer worries about airlock
Lee Kirkpatrick asked about HSA when dumping his partially-cooled
extract wort into the cold water in his plastic fermenter:
There's already been a lot written here about HSA. Some people are less
concerned about it than others, but here's one way to have a little less to
worry about. I'm assuming that you use at least a 4 (if not 5) gallon pot. No,
that's not big enough for a full wort boil, but it will hold an extra gallon or
two when you're not boiling. Put some of that cold top-off water directly in
your wort to cool it further (and, of course, use less top-off water in the
fermenter). Then splash it around all you like when you dump the wort.
Mike MacAdams wondered why his airlock didn't show any activity:
You said everything "seemed to go okay." Did you notice a big head of
kraeusen and has it fallen? Then you had fermentation. That the specific
gravity has fallen also suggests that you have little to worry about. So why
didn't the airlock do anything? One possible/probable explanation: How tight is
the fit of your fermenter lid? If it's not a real tight fit (and that's not a
problem once your primary fermentation gets going), the gas didn't have to go
through the airlock. (I imagine that during the most active period, your
airlock probably was bubbling--but you were asleep or at work and not there to
see it. No reason to toss it; you'll have beer.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:22:51 -0800 (PST)
From: alm@ibeam.jf.intel.com (Al Marshall)
Subject: Re: Czech Pils Yeast
Although a little off the point, I thought I would
mention an unusual experience with this yeast:
A 5 gallon batch of 1040 all-malt wort was fermented
at a controlled ambient temp of 68 (yes SIXTY EIGHT)
degrees F with this yeast.
The beer had virtually NO estery character. It
was in all respects a very pleasant light lager; showing
none of the character usually associated with a
warm ferment. I'm guessing that the low gravity
contributed to this character, but the yeast must
have cooperated as well.
I'm looking forward to using this yeast in a more standard
lager ferment.
-- R. Al Marshall
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joel C. Davis" <davisj@vancouver.wsu.edu>
Subject: water heater conversion (fwd)
This past summer I scavanged a hot water heater before it hit the scrap
heap and have been delighted with my find.
With a skil-saw and a metal cutting blade I was able to cut the tank in
half like a hot knife through butter -noisy, but fast! There are three
female outlets near the bottom, which will have the heating elements and
some insulated plug when you get into it. simply remove these, and
replace with two brass male plugs. The third you can simply screw in a
brass water faucet. voila your boiling/mash tun. Sand off the rough
edge around the top.
I'm using a propane stove which the old heater sits on. My stove is
three legged and I've placed two steel slats through the top of the stove
- for the kettle to sit on. It's very stable - (I start my boils with
about 12 gallons) and has a capacity of 25 gallons. My burner has three
rings (sorry I've forgotten the btu rating) and rolling boils are no
problem.
I kept the white exterior shell of the heater, cut it down to size and
retained the lid as well. For mashing, I put this shell and lid on and
for infusion mashing, the temperatures are retained, and with a little
practice with your burner, you'll soon learn how long to fire away to
bring it up to the next temp.
The cost?....if you have to buy a faucet (@$3.50), plugs about a buck
each. The propane stove and tank were @ $75.00. the saw blade (mine's
good for masonry as well and was laying around the shop..don't remember
the cost).
The blue ceramic liner cleans up real nice. I've wondered if there may
be come chemical reaction from this liner (nothing noticable, nor any
taste)...perhaps some of the scientists on-line could comment on this.
The faucet which has a threaded outlet, makes an easy connection to
my wort chiller (3/8" copper).
I love it! It isn't pretty, but has had great results!
The only problem I've encountered is after my boil, raising the hot
puppy up to about a 4 foot level- to gravity feed the chiller and on into
filling
the carboys. This past weekend I rigged up a pulley contraption to hoist
it up from the joists in my garage. it looks dangerous as hell, but
worked nicely. Prior to this contraption, I used a heavy plank to roll
it up onto a bench.
Good luck!.......-jd
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:45:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joel C. Davis" <davisj@vancouver.wsu.edu>
Subject: hot water heater conversion
> This past summer I scavanged a hot water heater before it hit the scrap
> heap and have been delighted with my find.
>
> With a skil-saw and a metal cutting blade I was able to cut the tank in
> half like a hot knife through butter -noisy, but fast! There are three
> female outlets near the bottom, which will have the heating elements and
> some insulated plug when you get into it. simply remove these, and
> replace with two brass male plugs. The third you can simply screw in a
> brass water faucet. voila your boiling/mash tun. Sand off the rough
> edge around the top.
>
> I'm using a propane stove which the old heater sits on. My stove is
> three legged and I've placed two steel slats through the top of the stove
> - for the kettle to sit on. It's very stable - (I start my boils with
> about 12 gallons) and has a capacity of 25 gallons. My burner has three
> rings (sorry I've forgotten the btu rating) and rolling boils are no
> problem.
>
> I kept the white exterior shell of the heater, cut it down to size and
> retained the lid as well. For mashing, I put this shell and lid on and
> for infusion mashing, the temperatures are retained, and with a little
> practice with your burner, you'll soon learn how long to fire away to
> bring it up to the next temp.
>
> the cost?....if you have to buy a faucet (@$3.50), plugs about a buck
> each. The propane stove and tank were @ $75.00. the saw blade (mine's
> good for masonry as well and was laying around the shop..don't remember
> the cost).
>
> The blue ceramic liner cleans up real nice. I've wondered if there may
> be come chemical reaction from this liner (nothing noticable, nor any
> taste)...perhaps some of the scientists on-line could comment on this.
>
The faucet has a threaded outlet which makes an easy connection to my
wort chiller (3/8" copper)
> I love it! It isn't pretty, but has had great results!
>
> The only problem I've encountered is after my boil, raising the hot
> puppy up
> to about a 4 foot level- to gravity feed the chiller and on into filling
> the carboys. This past weekend I rigged up a pulley contraption to hoist
> it up from the joists in my garage. it looks dangerous as hell, but
> worked nicely. Prior to this contraption, I used a heavy plank to roll
> it up onto a bench.
>
> good luck!
>
> -jd
------------------------------
Date: 7 Dec 1994 11:24:18 -0800
From: "Joe Klupar" <Joe.Klupar@specastro.com>
Subject: Virus Apology, Relax!..., R
I have received notice from several unverified sources that the "good times"
e-mail virus is a hoax, or urban legend. I apologize for any inconvenience,
distress or wasted bandwidth this has caused. Needless to say, better safe
than sorry if nothing is lost in the process.
WHAT MAKES RED BEER RED? Does anyone have an extract recipe? I do not want to
clone the mass market red beers. My current batch has a reddish tint, and I
would like to understand it and duplicate it. My current batch is a California
Common, S.G. 1050. F.G. 1022 made with 1 can Telfords lager extract and 3 lbs
dry light malt, fermented using Yeast Labs L35 and the Telfords dry yeast
packet (don't ask) at 65-67 deg. F
-Joe Klupar, "Brewer,Apologist", Phoenix, Arizona
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:51:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Ozone water treatment
As Ulick Stafford and Spencer Thomas both pointed out to me, ozone
activity is very short lived and does nothing to protect the water in the
mains. Ozone treatment is an additional water treatment and NOT a
substitute for chlorination, so chlorination will remain a brewing
problem even with ozone treatment.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 13:10:00 -0600 (CST)
From: owen@liblan.uams.edu
Subject: s shaped airlocks and early brewing
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FORWARDED FROM: Danny Owen
FROM: Danny Owen
DATE: 12/06/94 23:11
TO: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.com
CC:
SUBJECT: s shaped airlocks and early brewing
PRIORITY:
ATTACHMENTS:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all in HBD land. This is my first post on the HBD after almost a year of
lurking in the dark. ;^)
I am writing in regards to a question by a Craig Amundsen about S shaped
airlocks. He asks what
possible advantage that this type lock could possibly provide. Well Craig,
when I brewed my
first batch over two years ago I had an S shaped lock and the wheat beer I was
brewing
completly filled up the 2.5 gallon headspace that I had and then filled up my
airlock and went
all over the floor. I have tried everything I can think of since to remove the
residue from the
interior of the lock with almost no success. The lock is still so dirty that I
refuse to use it for
any type of brewing purpose. The advantage ofthe three piece lock is
accessiblity for cleaning.
And that is no small matter. Also, I purchase the three piece lock for only
$0.95. I don't think
that that price would break anybody's piggy-bank.
The second thing that I wanted to address was some discussion about early
brewing recipies.
I just happen to have a book on this replete with many recipies for various
types of alcoholic
beverages. If anybody would like some of this info I would be happy to share.
If there is
enough interest I will post some of the most requested info.
A third issue that I would like to (briefly) address is the nature of some of
the discussions on
this publication. When I first found out about the HBD I was very excited. I
had found an
excellent resource for homebrewers. I could ask and answer qwuestions and
exchange USEFUL
information about the art/science of homebrewing with people all over the
world! After
spending quite a bit of time reading various post for about the last year I
can honestly say that
I am quite disappointed with this forum. The whole discussion about "protien
denaturing and
re-naturing" is one of the most absurd discussions I have ever heard. I have
shared this
resource with the brewmaster of the local micro and his only comment about it
was "these people
obviously don't spend any time brewing. They talk too much to have time to
brew anything." I
must agree with his sentiment. I believe that this could be a much better
forum if we had more
talk about what/when somebody brewed than "pretien re-naturing" (which is the
most useless
topic I could imagine). If we had more reicpies and more talk about history of
beer and brewing
techniques and the like then this would indeed be the ultimate forum for
discussion about beer
that I could imagine. (this turned out to not be quite as brief as I thought
;^))
Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth but I've been saving up for a year and
the protien issue
was the last straw.
PDOWEN@liblan.uams.edu
"Madness in great ones must not unwatched go!"
------------------------------
Date: 7 Dec 1994 14:16:25 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp@mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Fermentor Geometry
Regarding Bill S's blow-off experiment:
>>After 10 days (66F) the non-blow-off batch was finished with a SG of
>>1.011, while the blow-off batch was still at 1.020. I bottled the
>>non-blow-off batch and re-racked the blow-off batch and let it sit in
>>secondary for another 10 days, then bottled with a FG=1.013.
I said:
>>The fact that the blow-off batch went much faster says something >>else is
going on here.
John DeCarlo wrote me and said:
>Ooops. Go back and re-read more carefully. The blow-off batch had >1.020
after 10 days, while the non-blow-off had 1.011. So the >non-blow-off was
finished *first*, by a long shot.
Ooops is right; My bad! Back to the guessing (and jumping to conclusions)
board. I'd still say that a full carboy should ferment warmer than one
filled only a few inches. Maybe the loss of yeast to the blow-off was the
culprit, and the differences between the two are mainly blow-off related?
(With so many variables, there's always a way out, eh? ) Also, Bill doesn't
say how much of the extra ten days in secondary were actually needed to
finish out the blow-off batch, so I don't know about "by a long shot". To
minimize the temperature effects, the two carboys should have been more
equally filled, at least. The bottom line is, I'll be suspicious of any
experiment addressing fermentor geometry that doesn't include direct control
of the internal temperature.
The comment by Teddy Winstead regarding the placement of cooling coils on
cylindro-conical fermentors is interesting. The tanks at the local micro here
have three sets of cooling coils. One is on the cone, one is low on the
cylindrical part, and the third is above that. These tanks are designed to
accommodate various batch sizes (i.e., they can hold more than one brew). If
the tank is only partially filled, the lower coils are used. If they're full,
*only* the upper one is used so that the natural convection within the tank
helps keep the temperature uniform. You can imagine the situation with only
the bottom coil running on a full tank; the cold stuff would sit at the
bottom and get colder. For low-temperature lagering, all three coils are
used. If the brewery budget won't allow for such sophistication (only one
coil), and double-batch-sized tanks are still wanted, one would have to opt
for a middle or low position (And maybe use a mechanical stirrer on a full
tank?)
MPM
------------------------------
Date: 7 Dec 1994 11:52:37 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment@rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Last Call
Subject: Last Call Time:11:44 AM Date:12/7/94
The deadline for the BJCP Exam to be held in Northern California is fast
approaching. If you plan to take the exam on January 7th you need to contact
Byron Burch NOW to reserve your space.
Byron may be reached at:
The Beverage People
840 Piner Road, #14
Santa Rosa, CA 95403
(707) 544-2520
The Exam will be held between 1 & 4 PM on Saturday January 7th.
Study Hard!
RW...
Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment@radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707) 769-0425
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 12:08:06 PST
From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Stainless Chiller
>>>>> "Randy" == Randy M Davis <rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com> writes:
Randy> A friend of mine has acquired a 40' length of 3/8" OD stainless
Randy> tubing for a new immersion chiller. He is working toward large
Randy> batch sizes (10-12 gal.US) and is assembling his equipment
Randy> now. If anyone has experience using stainless tubing for
Randy> immersion chilling he would appreciate info regarding the
Randy> length required.
Yes, SS has very poor heat conducting properties. I can heat 8 gals
of sparge water in a 15 gal SS pot and it will remain within 2 degrees
F for over a half hour. One thing I have found even with a copper
immersion chiller is that if it is stirred about while chilling, the
performance skyrockets. I have just made a SS paddle wort stirrer
powered by a very small motor to stir the wort while chilling. Will
be trying it for the first time this weekend. Jiggling the chiller
for 45 minutes is a pain in the back (literally).
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 16:10:42 EST
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn@rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: late addition of fermentables
I am thrilled to see that people are discussing my question about possible
ill effects of the late addition (ie in the secondary) of fermentables to
precious homebrew.
I will post the results of my experiment with the lager once it's bottled,
maybe a couple of weeks or so. Thanks to all who responded.
The reason I was concerned about late additions was that I've had bad luck
doing this in the past, and when I asked the guys at Brew-Your-Own (a very
good store with knowledgeable staff) they said it was a bad idea. They
suggested that it interrupted the yeast's natural cycle. When it's supposed
to be ageing the beer, it's asked to start fermenting all over again. This
is not a brilliant argument, especially since fruit additions are common
in the secondary (maybe the type of sugar is important?), and priming
is commonplace (the amount of "late fermentation" might be a factor, as
not much fermentation is required to fully carbonate a beer).
Adding sugar sends the yeast into the Krebbs cycle I think (I left Noonan
at home), which is different from what yeast does when wort is added.
In fact some people don't like to prime with DME precisely because all sorts
of secondary by-products are trapped in the bottle, which would not
otherwise be produced by a corn sugar fermentation.
These are just my own personal ramblings on the subject which I hope
might trigger some further insight into the issue.
I have two terrible batches of beer which I am presently blaming on late
additions of fermentables. ( I'm still relatively new at this brewing thing,
so I keep trying "improvements". I just hate waiting! I know RDWHAHB.)
A lovely Pale Ale went really bitter after a month in the bottle. I was
drinking it, and giving some away to show off, and a couple of weeks later
I had to call everyone and tell them to pitch any leftovers. Very embarassing!
It was not an infection. This was the batch the Brew-Your-Own people tried and
told me not to add stuff to the secondary. I had added a pound or two of
DME to the secondary.
The most recent failure: Unspoken Passion Imperial Stout from Papazian.
$110 in ingredients, and the stuff is again terribly bitter. Undrinkable.
I again added DME to the secondary because the OG was too low and it needed
more zing. A very expensive mistake!
It is possible that something else is wrong, but beers that I don't mess with
turn out great. Both all-grain and extract.
The mystery continues...
Eamonn McKernan
eamonn@rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 94 16:15:30 est
From: Christopher M. Goll <cgoll@pica.army.mil>
Subject: King Kookers
I got a King Kooker last week (Model 82PK) and it is great. My thanks
to those who sent advice to Stan White (and to Stan for forwarding
that advice) recommending its purchase.
One caveat however: I had planned to use the regulator and flex hose
supplied w/ the Kooker to replace the aging and kinked copper tubing
that now runs between my barbecue and the propane tank. Don't Do It!
Something (maybe the fact that the Kooker regulator is painted red? :)
made me ask at the propane station about my plan. It seems the Kooker
regulator is a high-pressure (20 psi) type, and not a suitable
substitute for the barbecue low-pressure (5 psi) type.
A request: My basement is not yet cold enough for lagers, but seems a
little too cold for the #1056 yeast that I've used before. Any
recommendations for a ale yeast that is comfortable between 55 and
60F? I've heard that #1007 German Ale is good at those temps.
True/False/Other??
Chris Goll
Rockaway, NJ
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:45:00 -0500
From: patrick.murray@onlinesys.com (Patrick Murray)
Subject: My success story
I'm fairly new to all grain brewing, this is about my 8th batch. I've
always used a simple infusion mash but I just finished a batch recently
using a decoction mashing procedure and was extremely impressed with the
results. Its my own twist on a Munich lager and thought I would share
it with you.
Ingredients:
2Kg of Canadian 2-row malt grain
1Kg of Munich Lager grain
3-4 cups of light DME
2oz Hallertauer hops
1 Yeast Lab - Munich Lager yeast
I used the decoction mashing procedure found at sierra.stanford.edu in the
allgrain.faq. I tested the gravity before boiling and was just shy of
1.050 (what I was aiming for) so I added the 3 cups of DME to bump it up.
I added 1oz of the hops at hot break and the rest just 5 minutes before the
end of the boil. I did make a starter for the yeast and fermentation was
done on the 5th day. I racked it to secondary and lagered for 2 weeks.
Filtered, carbonated, relaxed and enjoyed!
- ---
~ RoseReader 2.52a P005699 Entered at [ON-LINE SYSTEMS]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:30:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: "Historic" porter recipe
Since there has been public and private interest in my "historic" porter
I will post the recipe:
9.7 pounds EDME pale malt
.5 victory
.8 biscuit
.7 brown
.5 chocolate
.75 British crystal (~60L)
4 pounds California concentrates light extract.
1.6 oz Nuggett (14.5%) @ 60'
1 oz Goldings (5.7%) @ 5'
.2 oz Willamette (?%) @ 5'
Final boil volume=7.2 gallons, OG=1.076.
The high kilned malts were selected as what I had left over from a previous
experimental series of beers, not by any deductive process.
This was fermented rather warm for 5 days with WYeast 1007 (European). It
was then transferred to a 5 and a 1 gallon fermenter with the following dry
hops proportioned up: .4 oz Goldings (5.7%) .2 oz Willamette (4.8%). The
1 gallon fermenter also received some of Yeast Lab's Brettanomyces lambicus.
The 5 gallon was bottled after 16 more days, the 1 gallon after 45 days, at
which time it had some odd, hard-looking white colonies on top. FG's were
27 and 26 (+/-2) respectively.
The 5 gallon version was quite estery, probably due to the OG and ferment
temp. The 1 gallon was not very estery at all, although you wouldn't mistake
it for a bock or anything.
I always thought that Brettanomyces reduced esters eventually, but I looked
it up and I couldn't find anything except a statement that they produced
esters in lambics (_Lambic_ Brewers Publications). It could be age, might
be oxidation (I don't think so) or anything else (fermenter geometry?).
Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 21:30:13 -0500 (EST)
From: CSMOLKA@LOYOLA.EDU
Subject: virus
This is an addition to the virus alert sent in issue #1598
In addition to the "Good Times" virus going around, there is also one called
"xxx-1" floating about that should be deleted as soon as possible. Tell
everyone that you know to keep clear of both viruses.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 94 22:25:00 PST
From: E-Mail Administrator - DHS <Admin@dhs.state.sd.us>
Subject: Newbie King Kooker Q's
Greetings all,
I'm an extract brewer who has been lurking about the Digest for several
months now. You folks need to be commended for inspiring this rural South
Dakota boy to take the all-grain plunge.
I'm attempting to build a three tier gravity flow system composed of 1/2 bbl.
Sankey kegs fired by King Kooker Jet Burners. Since there are so many
burners out there, let me describe the beast to be certain we are on the same
page. It has a tripod made of flat 1/4" x 1" iron. The circular kettle
support resembles smooth re-bar and six radial spokes are welded to it made
of the same material. The guts of the unit are composed of a 5" long by
2-3/8" dia. vertical pipe. A horizontal nipple capped by a brass nut
terminates just below the center of the vertical pipe. The nut has a hole in
it which generally points upward into the vertical pipe. The regulator has a
large red plastic dial on it. I recently fired one up in my garage, and it
has prompted many questions. Please accept my apologies, if these are
covered in a FAQ somewhere.
It takes approximately 3.5 turns to open the regulator completely. How many
turns open does it take to achieve the most efficient flame? If you run it
too low, it kicks out an orange flame which doesn't seem efficient. If you
run it wide open, one can hardly stand to be near the burner. Is there any
way to modify the brass nut hole so it burns blue without turning it way up?
Should this hole point perfectly straight up into the vertical pipe?
The unit has a square baffle plate that pivots directly over the large
vertical tube. Where should it be positioned when used with a converted
Sankey keg?
Should the King Kooker be restricted to boiling mash water and wort, or can
it be tuned for mashing in a keg type kettle? If the monster can be used for
mashing, should I place some sort of material between the flame and the
kettle bottom to reduce scorching of the mash grains? Should I position my
kettle right on the radial spokes or should it be raised higher?
Has anyone built some sort of shroud that allows a more even heating of the
kettle sidewalls? I envision an inverted barrel that slips over the top of
the keg with a hole large enough to accommodate the kettle top opening. I
don't mean an exhaust hood, for ventilation is not a problem in my garage.
Some of the newer units in the catalogues have some sort of needle valve
situated after the regulator just before the rubber hose. I purchased my
units several months ago, and they did not come with this feature. Does this
offer some sort of advantage?
Sorry for the intense borage of questions, it's been a while since I've had a
homebrew. ;*P
Just can't tell you how valuable the Digest has been to me. Believe me,
the homebrew learning curve for remote homebrewers (like myself) would be a
steep one without the talented HBD players.
Keith John Byer
ADMIN@DHS.STATE.SD.US
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 00:03:29 -0500
From: Joe Pearl <joep@informix.com>
Subject: Need help/suggestions for siphoning
Hi all,
I'm a relatively new homebrewer (just bottled my third batch). I'm
using two buckets: 6.7 gallon fermenter, 5 gallon siphoning. I keep my
fermenter on a shelf that's about two feet off the ground. When it
comes time to siphon, I put the other bucket on a four inch platform so
that my siphon hose can reach into the bucket.
I start the siphon by filling it with water (completely -- no air) and
putting one end into the fermenter. The other end, after allowing the
water out, goes into the 5 gallon bucket.
When I'm about 75-80% finished, the siphon stops. To get it restarted
brings up a lot of sediment. So... I end up tossing some of the
product.
This is frustrating. I know there's got to be a better way so that I
can get a higher yield. I want more of what I've made!!! I'm thinking
I should be able to get 90+% yields.
Please (!) offer any hints, suggestions, orders, ... that you may have!
Either private email or a post to HBD is fine.
Thanx in advance,
joe.
Joe Pearl
Informix Software Voice: 813-971-0010
8675 Hidden River Parkway Fax: 813-632-9582
Tampa, FL 33637 Email: joep@informix.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 17:23:38 +1100
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: sodium metabisulphite
Gilad writes about using SM for sterilising brewing equipment. Many will
disagree with me, but I have the benefit of experience. I commonly use
precisely the technique Gilad describes (ie. acidifying the water before adding
the SM), and in 13 years of brewing have never had any infections I could
attribute to this technique. In fact the only infections I can remember are
individual bottle infections caused by those horrible growths you get when you
do not rinse your bottle immediately after drinking the contents. I always use
bleach for bottles because I do this all too frequently and you need something
really serious to get rid of this stuff! Unlike bleach solutions, you can also
leave your plastic fermenters full of SM solutions when not in use, without
worrying about nasty flavours from chlorine residing in your vessel. I usually
do not rinse the SM from the container as I do not find any problems developing
from this practice, and it means you just need to empty the solution (or
transfer to another vessel) without the need to re-sanitize. In theory (and
practice) the small amount of residual sulphur blows off in the fermentation
and you do not get sulphur smells in your beer. This is another reason I do not
use it for bottles, as any sulphur will be "sealed in" and could cause problems
(I do not know if this is valid - I am probably being paranoid).
In Australia, SM is a very common sanitizing agent and I know of nobody who has
any problems in its use (and most would not bother even in adding acid to free
the SO2). So Gilad, go for it if you want to use it!
Andy from Sydney.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 07:54:25 -0500
From: MicahM1269@aol.com
Subject: fermenter geometry
I guess I shall put in my two cents on this fermenter geometry topic. I built
my stainless home
brew fermenter some time ago.( btw I had an original copy of DeClerck from
the local library as
guide to start with ) I have a primary and a secondary. The primary has an
equal diametre to
height ratio, 16.5 gallon capacity. The secondary is a conical bottom tank
with 2:1 height to
diametre, 15 gallon capacity. These tanks were intended to do to very
different things. The
primary was intended to handle and promote vigorous and rapid ferments, it
has a racking arm
as well. The secondary was meant to settle yeast as quickly as possible and
easily rack bright
beer. It is also a pressure vessel since I usually krausen home brews. When I
designed the
fermenters currently in use at MCBC I stayed with this same concept. It has
worked well so far
primary fermentation is very fast in squat shaped fermenters but cooling is
necessary both at
home and work. the vigor of the ferment will produce enough heat to be a
problem. Also the
home fermenters have been successfully used with an incredible range of
yeasts and
temperatures suitable for those yeasts.
micah millspaw - brewer at large
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 05:04:22 -0800
From: folsom@ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom)
Subject: HSA and HOPS Contest
Are the dangers of HSA less or greater after the boil, or is it equally
a problem after sparging but before the boil. I have always been
careful to chill my wort before transfering to the primary and aerating,
but have usually just let the sparge drip out into a pot on the floor,
thinking that it was all going to be boiled shortly anyway,, driving out
the oxygen. It's beginning to sink through my thick skull that this is
not right. What exactly happens when hot wort is oxygenated, and when
need you be most careful?
On a completely different note (C#), a few months back someone posted an
announcement of the HOPS (Homebrewers of Philadelphia and Suburbs)
contest, and I've since changed jobs and email addresses, and lost his
info. If you're out there, would it be possible to get an email summary
of the results? My Old Ale took a second, and like the Klingons, I'm
wondering who I have to assassinate to move up ;-)
Al Folsom
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1600, 12/09/94
*************************************
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