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HOMEBREW Digest #1602
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/12/12 00:34:38
HOMEBREW Digest #1602 Mon 12 December 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
BMW Virus ALERT! ("Robert W. Mech")
Warm weather brewing (Ray Robert)
Juniper Berries (Brian Wurst)
Long Ferment (Guy Mason)
HOW YOU CAN AND CAN'T GET A VIRUS (Bob Ambrose)
Geometry and Stratification ("Manning Martin MP")
HOAX! The PC "Good Times" email virus (Steve Robinson)
RE: Lindeman Kriek Lambic (derk)
Re: Beer Across America & Others ("Paul A. Hausman")
Scotch Ale Recipe Request ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
Carboy Glug-No More ("Craig A. Janson")
Cheap way to incubate wort (Zeb Brown)
Yeasts for 55-60F ferments (Geoffrey Talvola)
Virus is a hoax ("Schuettke, Thomas P")
Kegs & Cold Plates (John McCauley)
build a roller mill retry (Bob_McIlvaine)
Mash Tun Geometry ("Todd M. McGuinness")
Re: Need help/suggestions for siphoning (David Desroches)
Re: Need help/suggestions for siphoning (HBD#1600) (Guy Garnett)
story (RONALD DWELLE)
FOOP Buster ("NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE")
Slow cider (JWHITE)
Re: Winter Yeasts (Randy M. Davis)
Kitchen Aid Grain Mill (t.duchesneau)
Low/no alcohol beer / Hop oil for bittering (Keith Frank)
Top vs. Bottom / Temp. Swings / Malt Mail Order / HBD Value (npyle)
Convection/Source of heat ("Manning Martin MP")
******************************************************************
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 03:45:17 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech@eagle.ais.net>
Subject: BMW Virus ALERT!
Beware of the BMW (Bite My Weenie) Virus It Is Sent In Email And Will
Destroy Your Harddrive. Here is the virus itself!
- --- CUT HERE ---
begin 600 bmw
&1'5H82$*
end
- --- CUT HERE ---
Oh No! Your harddrive has been deleted! NOT!
Ok, ENOUGH FOLKS. The HBD is *NOT* repeat *NOT* the place for this
stuff. The last HBD had at least 4 different Virus information postings
in it. The only Virus' I want to hear about are one that are going to
infect my beer.
Myth And Truth...
First off, No piece of *email* can delete your harddrive. In order for
email to delete your harddrive, you would have to run it, decode it,
whatever. READING it is not going to delete ANYTHING. The only FAR FAR
FAR possibility of *ANYTHING* happening from reading email would be some
Bizzare ANSI codes that remap your keyboard and fool it into typeing
something like rm -r * or del *.*. In either case this is next to
IMPOSSIBLE with today's mail readers/viewers so unless you are on a IBM
XT with 64K of ram, I wouldnt loose sleep over it.
Secondly, the only way that you COULD get a virus on your system by the
way of Email is via a UUENCODED message, (Or a file attach via AOL). In
which case you would have to decode it and then RUN it.
If you are stupid enough to UUDECODE and run a program from which you
have no clue where it came, you have to either be a complete moron, or
have had 1 to many homebrews. Most people *NEVER* run/decode anything if
they dont know its origin.
This "good time" BS was obviously started by somone who thought it would
be a great joke to scare the piss out of the niave users on AOL. It
worked, I even got this message here at work (Where we dont have *ANY*
inet access). Before you all yell "but what if...". Look, the above is
FACT. Quit being paranoid. Do you really think that if it was possible
for somone to delete an entire harddrive by reading mail, they wouldnt of
thought of a more intresting target? president@whitehouse.gov ? Come on
people, get a clue here... You dont think that if it was possible it
wouldnt have been posted to EVERY NEWSGROUP? How about the HBD Itself?
Enough said. Lets get back to brewing and get off this stupid subject.
I do apologize for my waste of bandwith on the HBD, but with luck this
will be the last we will need to see of this topic.
- --
Robert W. Mech - rwmech@eagle.ais.net
Freelance IS Support / Administration / Programming
"If you want to get it done right, pay somone else to do it for you."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 09:08:00 PST
From: Ray Robert <rayr@bah.com>
Subject: Warm weather brewing
Hi all,
I just move to Florida and I am looking for some tips on warm weather
brewing. I usually make either extract or partial mash batches. I don't
run into any problems regulating temps in the brewing process, its just when
it comes to fermenting. The temps in my apartment (in December) are 70-75F.
To regulate the temp on my current batch, I have the entire fermentor
sitting in a large plastic tub surrounded by water. When I can, I either
change the water, or add ice to try to keep the temps from creeping up
towards 80F. I am afraid the fluctuating temperatures may harm the beer.
As for types of beer, I usually stick with pale/brown ales, but I would
like to try my hand at a bock style beer.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. As it gets closer to summer, I
am anticipating the temperature regulation problem to get much worse. TIA
Robert Ray
P.S. I know alot of you don't want to hear about my warm weather brew
problems at this time of year, but what can I say, I was transferred. ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 14:08:00 -0600
From: brian.wurst@aquila.com (Brian Wurst)
Subject: Juniper Berries
In HBD#1598, robertjm@ix.netcom.com (Robert Marshall) wrote:
- ----------------------
Subject: juniper berries
Ok, I harvested the juniper berries that were on our junipers in front
of the house. I got the idea from a thread of posts in
rec.crafts.drink.beer, or one of the other lists.
Anyway, my question is how much I should use for a batch. I am either
going to make a 2.8 gallon or a 5 gallon batch. I have not decided
which.
Any suggestions on quantity of berries to use?
Thanks in advance.
- ---------------------------
I thoroughly crushed a bunch of juniper berries and used 1/4 cup of the
resultant mush in a 2 gal. batch of porter. A taste at bottling was
enough to make the hoppiest hophead writhe in delight...incredibly,
excessively bitter! I allowed it to condition and age for 4 months
whereupon the brew had settled into a fine beer, without the
(IMHO) excessive bitterness and just a kiss of juniper after the hop
bitterness had faded. Just a data point. YMMV. Caveat brewer.
Brian Wurst (brian.wurst@aquila.com)
"Nature has formed you, desire has trained you, fortune has preserved
you for this insanity." -Cicero
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 8:52:43 EST
From: Guy Mason <guy@polo.matrixnet.com>
Subject: Long Ferment
Greetings HBDer's
An Internet-challenged brewer friend is making his first lager (Rocky
Racoon's Honey Lager). This brew has been in the fridge bubbling away
every 30-45 seconds for three weeks. He used the Munich lager liquid yeast
from Wyeast with a 2 cup starter. He has no OG reading and is beginning to
worry, he's running out of Toad Spit stout. Any suggestions??? I
thought about trying to get a specific gravity reading but don't know
if that will tell me much without an OG.
Thanx
- --
Guy Mason - Single White Homebrewer, Cheshire CT
Matrix Software
Shelton, CT
guy@matrixnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 08:56:44 -0500
From: ambroser@apollo.dml.georgetown.edu (Bob Ambrose)
Subject: HOW YOU CAN AND CAN'T GET A VIRUS
You CANNOT get a virus by reading text.
You CANNOT get a virus by viewing a graphics file, such as a GIF.
You CANNOT get a virus by downloading ANY file.
The only way you CAN get a virus is by downloading an executable file and
then executing it. A VIRUS MUST BE IN AN EXECUTABLE FILE (.COM .EXE, etc)
BEFORE IT WILL WORK. This is because a virus is EXECUTABLE OBJECT CODE.
If it isn't executable, you can't get a virus from it.
I would encourage anyone to send me private e-mail that proves you can get
a virus from reading AOL E-mail. That's like saying you can get a virus by
reading the HBD!
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 1994 09:04:34 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp@mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Geometry and Stratification
On internal convection in fermentors, Dr. John M. Pratte writes:
>While there are density differences due to
>temperature, there are also density differences due to the
>multicomponents in the fluid: alcohol, water, and sugar. These
>differences can also cause/inhibit convection in the tank and their
>effect would depend on what kind of yeast is being used (top vs.
>bottom fermenting).
There may be some stratification of density initially, if the kettle wort is
blended with water, or a large yeast starter is used, but this will soon be
mixed out. I have never heard of beer stratifying once the wort has become
homogenious. Anybody?
MPM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 09:35:11 EST
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson@analog.com>
Subject: HOAX! The PC "Good Times" email virus
I wasn't going to post this originally, because it's long. However, if it will
kill this virus thread once and for all and let us get back to talking about
beer, it will be worth the space.
Steve Robinson in North Andover, Mass.
steve.robinson@analog.com
- -------- Forwarded Message
U.S. DOE's Computer Incident Advisory Capability
___ __ __ _ ___ __ __ __ __ __
/ | /_\ / |\ | / \ | |_ /_
\___ __|__ / \ \___ | \| \__/ | |__ __/
Number 94-04 December 6, 1994
$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$
$ Reference to any specific commercial product does not necessarily $
$ constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation or favoring by $
$ CIAC, the University of California, or the United States Government.$
$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$
THE "Good Times" VIRUS IS AN URBAN LEGEND
In the early part of December, CIAC started to receive information requests
about a supposed "virus" which could be contracted via America OnLine, simply
by reading a message. The following is the message that CIAC received:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Here is some important information. Beware of a file called Goodtimes. |
| |
| Happy Chanukah everyone, and be careful out there. There is a virus on |
| America Online being sent by E-Mail. If you get anything called "Good |
| Times", DON'T read it or download it. It is a virus that will erase your |
| hard drive. Forward this to all your friends. It may help them a lot. |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS A HOAX. Upon investigation, CIAC has determined that this message
originated from both a user of America Online and a student at a university
at approximately the same time, and it was meant to be a hoax.
CIAC has also seen other variations of this hoax, the main one is that any
electronic mail message with the subject line of "xxx-1" will infect your
computer.
This rumor has been spreading very widely. This spread is due mainly to the
fact that many people have seen a message with "Good Times" in the header.
They delete the message without reading it, thus believing that they have
saved themselves from being attacked. These first-hand reports give a false
sense of credibility to the alert message.
There has been one confirmation of a person who received a message with
"xxx-1" in the header, but an empty message body. Then, (in a panic, because
he had heard the alert), he checked his PC for viruses (the first time he
checked his machine in months) and found a pre-existing virus on his machine.
He incorrectly came to the conclusion that the E-mail message gave him the
virus (this particular virus could NOT POSSIBLY have spread via an E-mail
message). This person then spread his alert.
As of this date, there are no known viruses which can infect merely through
reading a mail message. For a virus to spread some program must be executed.
Reading a mail message does not execute the mail message. Yes, Trojans have
been found as executable attachments to mail messages, the most notorious
being the IBM VM Christmas Card Trojan of 1987, also the TERM MODULE Worm
(reference CIAC Bulletin B-7) and the GAME2 MODULE Worm (CIAC Bulletin B-12).
But this is not the case for this particular "virus" alert.
If you encounter this message being distributed on any mailing lists, simply
ignore it or send a follow-up message stating that this is a false rumor.
- ------------------------------
This document was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of
the United States Government. Neither the United States Government nor the
University of California nor any of their employees, makes any warranty,
express or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the
accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product,
or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately
owned rights. Reference herein to any specific commercial products, process,
or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise, does not
necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation or favoring
by the United States Government or the University of California. The views
and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect
those of the United States Government or the University of California, and
shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
- ------- End of Forwarded Message
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 94 14:00:00 GMT
From: derk@psp.att.com
Subject: RE: Lindeman Kriek Lambic
I had the most fortunate opportunity to tour the Bellevue brewery
in Brussels this past summer. Bellevue is lambic brewery in the
heart of Brussels. A most valued friend was able to arrange a private
tour of the brewery. I cannot possible describe what we experienced
during the tour. It was incredible! But as I have seen a couple
of comments recently in the HBD about lambics, I thought
I would share some information that might help clarify the issues.
True lambics can only be brewed in the 40 or so square mile area in and
around Brussels; as quoted by our tour guide. This is because the
wort is innoculated by direct exposure to the atmosphere. The
microorganisms needed to produce a true lambic are more prevalent in
the Brussels area than anywhere else in the world. By this definition,
Samuel Adams Cranberry Lambic isn't really a lambic (unless Sam Adams
has set up shop in Brussels). The wort is pumped to an open pan, after
the boil, and is exposed to the air. The pan is about 20' X 20'.
The room is vented directly to the outside of the building. The wort
remains in the pan until it is cooled to around 65F, at which time it
goes directly into oak kegs for the next two or six year fermentation
interval. Sometimes a ceiling fan is used to help bring down the wort
tempeature. Lambics are only brewed during the cooler months. Guese is
made by mixing two and six year old lambics in a proportion determined
by expert tasters - what a great job!! Kreik, framboise, and peche is
made with fruit added to two year old lambic only.
At one point in the tour we sampled both one and two year old guese.
The two year old was incredible!! A kreik was also sampled directly
from a keg. It too was was an experience I will savor forever. All of
the lambics we sampled were sour. I, like Tim (HBD #1597), had my
only other lambic experience with Lindeman kreik which reminded me
of soda pop. I asked our tour guide about this and he told me that
many lambics, including thier own, were sweetened at bottling time.
He personally does not agree with this, but like any other business,
they are driven by the market. I suspect that Lindeman is doing the
same.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 09:37:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Paul A. Hausman" <paul@lion>
Subject: Re: Beer Across America & Others
With The holiday gifting-season upon us, Lee Menegoni requested a
list of beer-of-the-month companies.
Here's a summary taken from "Beer - The Magazine", Spring 1994
Most of these ship 2 six-packs/month.
Beer Across America, Cary, IL
14.95/mo.
1-800-854-BEER
Beers 2 You, Milwaukee, WI
14.95/mo.
1-800-223-BEER
Brew to You, Woodstock, IL
20.00/mo. in IL, 22.00 Out of State
1-800-800-BREW
Gourmet Beer Society, Temecula, CA
7.95/mo for 2 bottles, 14.95 for two 6-packs
1-800-777-0740
International Beer Club, Chicago, IL
20.00/mo. (2 six-packs, 1 Import 1 US Microbrew)
1-800-854-4903
Micro Brew Express, Santa Clara, CA
15.95/mo. +tax & shipping
415-493-2992
Microbrew to You, Campbell, CA
21.95/mo.
1-800-347-8532
Beer Across America is reputedly the biggest by far. An advantage in
service and reliability, but a disadvantage in that the smallest micros
simply could not possibly supply a monthly shipment for them.
I have only tried BAA myself, and would not presume to recommend or not
recommend any of the above. I do, however, strongly recommend Beer - The
Magazine to anyone seriously interested in brewing or consuming fermented
grain beverage. This also makes an excellent holiday subscription gift
(and is significantly less expensive). Subscriptions are $24/year and are
available by calling 1-800-221-3148
- --
***************************************************************************
* Lion Technology Inc. Voice: (201) 383-0800 *
* Paul A. Hausman Fax: (201) 383-2459 *
* Internet: paul@lion.com Compuserve: 72074,2410 *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 09:49:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Scotch Ale Recipe Request
Hi HBDers,
I stopped by The Eccentric Cafe (aka Bell's) last night in K'zoo and
discovered that they had a special Skotch Ale on tap. It was so outstanding
that I became inspired to emulate it. This being my first all-grain batch, I
am seeking opinions/recipe suggestions. Specifically, is a high OG
scotch ale too difficult to undertake for a beginning all-grainer? Below is
what I had in mind, but is subject to change at any second:
12 lbs pale british 2-row
1.0 lbs british crystal malt(50L)
.25 lbs chocolate malt
.25 lbs toasted malt
.5 lbs dextrine malt (probably not necessary, huh??)
hops: suggestions welcome
2.0 oz BC Kent Goldings pellets (boil)
0.5 oz Willamette pellets (boil)
No flavor or aroma hops planned at present
Wyeast Scottish Ale (####?)
I expect an OG of around 1.075---should I shoot for higher? Generally, any
suggestions regarding hopping schedule, grain bill, mashing procedures, etc.
would be greatly appreciated. I would normally seek out this information in
the literature/archives etc., but I have had difficulty finding good
information regarding this style. Sorry for the barrage of questions and TIA.
BREW ON!
Bones
- ------------------------
timothy laatsch
laatsch@kbs.msu.edu
k'zoo, mi (aka Larryland)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 13:20 EST
From: "Craig A. Janson" <0003522158@mcimail.com>
Subject: Carboy Glug-No More
One thing to add...
Make sure the end of the tubing that is inside the carboy is within the
air bubble. It is also useful to make sure no water is inside the tube. It's
cumbersome to start but is a great suggestion once started.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 10:27:00 PST
From: Zeb Brown <zbrown@eicon.com>
Subject: Cheap way to incubate wort
In HBD #1600, Ronald Dwelle writes:
~ It's winter and cooling down in my brew space. I basically cannot
~ easily control the temperature of my wort during ferment and tend to
~ have anything from 50-65 F during a two-week stint. Last winter, I
I keep my apartment heated to the lower end of that range throughout the
winter, and know of one simple way to give your wort a more tropical
environment. You can build a very inexpensive incubator by wiring an
ordinary electrical thermostat to a light socket with a 40-watt bulb
installed. Mount this in a cardboard box enclosing your carboy and,
especially if you insulate it by draping a few blankets on top, it will
easily maintain the temperature within the thermostat setting. (Make sure
the light bulb is at least a few inches from the box.) Standing the carboy
on a phone book will minimize heat loss to the cold floor.
The thing can be made for less than ten bananas.
When this system was described to me I had the impression that it was widely
used among homebrewers. I would be interested to hear about any of its
drawbacks.
Zeb Brown
Montreal, Quebec
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 10:41:42 -0500
From: Geoffrey Talvola <gtalvola@bbn.com>
Subject: Yeasts for 55-60F ferments
Chris Goll says:
> A request: My basement is not yet cold enough for lagers, but seems a
> little too cold for the #1056 yeast that I've used before. Any
> recommendations for a ale yeast that is comfortable between 55 and
> 60F? I've heard that #1007 German Ale is good at those temps.
> True/False/Other??
I am currently using 1007 in a Brown Ale fermenting at 55F, and
it's fermenting fine (although somewhat slowly as one would expect).
1007 would be a good choice for 55-60F.
I have one other experience with 1007 -- it was a strong ale with
7 lbs of pale malt, 2 lbs of Vienna, and 1 lb of 20L crystal, 2.5 lbs
of honey, 4 oz of Saaz hops added throughout the boil, and Wyeast 1007
- -- it came out to be a great well-balanced complex beer. I found that
1007 contributed an interesting and complex flavor of its own -- it's
not a neutral yeast like 1056.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 07:37:00 PST
From: "Schuettke, Thomas P" <THSC461@ecy.wa.gov>
Subject: Virus is a hoax
Here's a message that was forwarded to me. It appears that this "GOOD
TIMES" virus thing is all a hoax. So lets quit wasting bandwidth on it and
get back to brewtalk.
>From: Mike Wilkins (CompuCom)
>To: Blanc Weber; Jeff Witt; Mark Chace; Melissa Wilson; Sharleen
>Carrico Grove; Virus Reporting; Virus Discussions
>Cc: Tim Heflin; Mike Wilkins (CompuCom)
>Subject: THE "Good Times" VIRUS IS A HOAX
>Date: Tuesday, December 06, 1994 5:35PM
>THE "Good Times" VIRUS IS A HOAX upon investigation by CIAC.
>In the early part of December, CIAC (Computer Incident Advisory
>Capability) started to receive information requests about a supposed
>"virus" which could be contracted via America OnLine, simply by
>reading a message. The following is the message that CIAC received:
> Here is some important information. Beware a file named "GOOD TIMES "
> Happy Chanukah everyone, and be careful out there. There is a virus on
> America Online being sent by E-Mail. If you get anything called
>"Good Times", DON'T read it or download it. It is a virus that will
>erase your hard drive. Forward this to all your friends. It may
>help them a lot.
>THIS IS A HOAX. Upon investigation, CIAC has determined that this message
>originated from both a user of America Online and a student at a university
>at approximately the same time, and it was meant to be a hoax.
>CIAC has also seen other variations of this hoax, the main one is that any
>electronic mail message with the subject line of "xxx-1" will infect your
>computer.
>This rumor has been spreading very widely. This spread is due mainly to
the
>fact that many people have seen a message with "Good Times" in the header.
>They delete the message without reading it, thus believing that they have
>saved themselves from being attacked. These first-hand reports give a false
>sense of credibility to the alert message.
>There has been one confirmation of a person who received a message with
>"xxx-1" in the header, but an empty message body. Then, (in a panic,
because he >had heard the alert), he checked his PC for viruses (the first
time he checked his >machine in months) and found a pre-existing virus on
his machine. He incorrectly >came to the conclusion that the E-mail message
gave him the virus (this particular >virus could NOT POSSIBLY have spread
via an E-mail message). This person >then spread his alert.
>As of this date, there are no known viruses which can infect merely through
>reading a mail message. For a virus to spread some program must be
>executed. Reading a mail message does not execute the mail message. Yes,
>Trojans have been found as executable attachments to mail messages, the
most >notorious being the IBM VM Christmas Card Trojan of 1987, also the
TERM >MODULE Worm (reference CIAC Bulletin B-7) and the GAME2 MODULE Worm
>(CIAC Bulletin B-12). But this is not the case for this particular "virus"
alert.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 10:23:52 -0500
From: ctgnet@cais.cais.com (John McCauley)
Subject: Kegs & Cold Plates
Corny kegs have intrigued me and while I have a spare fridge in the
basement, I do not want to take out the shelves to fit the keg. In a
restaurant supply catalogue I came across a device called a cold-plate (for
those who don't know it, it is a flat aluminum block containing imbedded
coils). Now, then, does this sound doable, or am I looking for a free lunch?
Running a line through a shank into the fridge into the cold plate. Either
running a line out of the plate through another shank to a faucet mounted on
the side of the box or just leaving one of those thumb operated valves in
the fridge comming off the plate.
It would seem then that I could leave the keg outside the fridge and still
have cold beer on demand (understood that I probably couldn't run a LOT of
beer through the plate and expect it to be cold. I'm talking 2-3 pints at a
time). The cold plate looks like it would take up less than half a shelf.
Experts out there PLEASE correct any errors.
John McCauley
ctgnet@cais.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 10:53:08 EST
From: Bob_McIlvaine@keyfile.com
Subject: build a roller mill retry
Chris posted a message the other day about roller
mill fabrication. I tryed posting to the following
addresses and it bounced:
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 7:38:44 EST
From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha@letterkenn-emh1.army.mil>
Subject: Roller Mill Project Complete
Chris "Barny" Barnhart
clbarnha@letterkenn-emh1.army.mil
Chris, if you're listening please email me directly
at mac@mv.mv.com
Sorry about the bandwidth.
Mac
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 09:55:46 -0600 (CST)
From: "Todd M. McGuinness" <tmmpci@Mcs.Net>
Subject: Mash Tun Geometry
Hello Brewthren,
Just thought while we were discussing Geometry of Fermentation vessels,
it might be good to throw this question out there:
I am currently using a 48qt. rectangular(elcheapo brand) cooler to mash
in, I recently was brewing with a friend and he uses a Gott that is
circular. I have noticed that it is harder for me to get my mash to
temperature without using a lot of water, it took no time, and a lot
less water with the Gott. My mash is the consistency of campbells
chicken soup.
Now, when brewing larger batches, 20-25 pounds of grain, I get better
results and end-up with excellent extraction rates.
The question is: Surface to volume ratio - is this the culprit and
should just brew 10 gl batches in this tun or, is there another method of
creating the appropriate mashing consistancy with less water.
TIA,
Todd M. McGuinness
tmmpci@mcs.com
P.S.- I liked the protein denaturing issue - SCIENCE IS GOOD FOOD
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 17:46:12 GMT
From: dmdesroches@elwood.wpi.edu (David Desroches)
Subject: Re: Need help/suggestions for siphoning
Joe Pearl writes:
>I'm a relatively new homebrewer (just bottled my third batch). I'm
>using two buckets: 6.7 gallon fermenter, 5 gallon siphoning. I keep my
>fermenter on a shelf that's about two feet off the ground. When it
>comes time to siphon, I put the other bucket on a four inch platform so
>that my siphon hose can reach into the bucket.
First thing I would suggest is to go to your brew store and buy a racking
cane (24" or 30" depending on the height of your fermenter). This is a
stiff plastic tube that will have a curve at the top to attach your
siphoning tube and a plastic attachment for the bottom of the tube that
will allow the beer to siphon in from _above_ the sediment on the bottom
of your fermenter.
The second thing, raise your fermenter _much_ higher when you siphon. I
experienced my first problem with siponing last night and called a brew
friend for advice. He told me to raise my fermenter higher (mine was
also about 2' off the floor) and this would get a better siphon going.
I did, and the siphon took off and finished better than ever. I placed
my fermenter on my counter top (I had been placing it on a chair) and
the secondary on the floor. The racking cane will give you extra length
for your siphon hose, but if necessary, buy more siphon hose as well.
Dave Desroches
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 11:36:17 -0500
From: ggarnett@qrc.com (Guy Garnett)
Subject: Re: Need help/suggestions for siphoning (HBD#1600)
Hey, one I can answer!
Joe Pearl wrote:
>fermenter on a shelf that's about two feet off the ground. When it
>comes time to siphon, I put the other bucket on a four inch platform so
>that my siphon hose can reach into the bucket.
>
>When I'm about 75-80% finished, the siphon stops.
I'm guessing here, but that's when the level of the beer in your bucket is
nearly the same height off the ground as the beer in your fermenter, right?
A siphon requires a height difference in order to work; as soon as the
height of the beer in the two buckets is the same, your siphon will stop.
Siphons also run fastest when the height difference is greatest, and slow
down as the difference decreases, so a little before it actually stops,
it'll slow down to the point where its as good as stopped, even if there's a
little height difference between the two vessels.
When I rack my beer, I do it in the kitchen, and set my fermentor on the
kitchen counter, and the bottling bucket on a low chair next to the counter.
This puts the top of the bottling bucket just about even with the counter
top (and bottom of the fermenter). I've never had any problems keeping the
siphon going with this setup, and the whole thing is farther off the ground,
which is easier on me while I stand there and hold the racking cane.
I've never had any problems with my wife for using the kitchen for my
various brewing activities. She likes my beer, and I'm always careful to
make sure that the kitchen is cleaner when I'm done brewing than it was when
I started. This isn't bad policy to clean everything in sight to prevent
infections ANYWAY, and the domestic-relations dividends are a real plus.
>This is frustrating. Please (!) offer any hints, suggestions, orders,
>... that you may have! Either private email or a post to HBD is fine.
Well, other than make sure that the top of your bucket is below the bottom
of your fermentor, I can't think of anything you're doing wrong. I use the
same technique as you do to start the siphon, and I can siphon all the way
down to the yeast and traub at the bottom of the fermentor (at which point,
I pull the racking cane out to stop the siphon).
Guy Garnett, Rockville MD.
Guy Garnett - ggarnett@qrc.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hakuna Matata and Have a Homebrew!
Standard disclaimers apply
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 12:05:56 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: story
Three vampires go to a cocktail lounge for some refreshments. The hostess
asks them for their choice of beverage. The first vampire muses and then
says: "I'll have a blood". Second vampires replies, "make that two". The
third vampire pauses a moment and says "I'll have a platelet".
The hostess comes to the busy bar and yells: "Heh Sam, two bloods and a
blood light."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 12:26:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE" <SFO@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: FOOP Buster
I must disagree with the opinion of PDOWDEN on the usefulness of the
protein folding, FOOP discussion. If you like foam on the top of your
beer, you should be interested in the chemical changes that occur in
the protein structure that lead to stabilization or destabilization of
the foam. Understanding these reactions allow us to maximize the foam
without problems with haze. Sorry that you don't appreciate the info
but I doubt that anyone cares what you think. Go have a homebrew.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 12:31:33 EST
From: JWHITE@octrf.on.ca
Subject: Slow cider
This question is from a depressed fellow brewer....
I started an apple cider approx. 3 weeks ago
Recipe:
apple cider
brown sugar
dry extract
spices, etc.
boiled for 15-20 minutes cool to 74 degrees pitched yeast.
starting gravity was 1.085
and what a surprise today's gravity is 1.080
any ideas...i would like to try some of this before Xmas 95
Thanks
Jason J White
Behavioural and Community Cancer Research
Northeastern Ontario Regional Cancer Centre
Sudbury, Ontario
jwhite@octrf.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 10:42:33 MST
From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com>
Subject: Re: Winter Yeasts
Ron Dwelle asked about suggestions for "a super cheapo temp controller".
I experience the same problem with my basement cooling too much during
the winter months. The lower temps inhibit fermentation of ale yeasts
but are not low enough to properly ferment with most lager strains.
What I did was salvage an old water bed heater complete with thermostat.
I place the heater on the cement floor, with the thermostat laying on
top. I then put a couple of carboys right on the heater. With careful
monitoring of the fermentation temp. the thermostat can be adjusted to
provide just the right amount of heating. If you can find someone who
has given up the old water bed you might get one of these very cheaply.
They probably show up at yard sales or flea markets as well.
Up here in the frozen North we always find a way to keep things warm...
- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Randy M. Davis rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com Calgary Canada (403)260-4184 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 11:44:00 UTC
From: t.duchesneau@genie.geis.com
Subject: Kitchen Aid Grain Mill
Brett Hunt asked about the Kitchen Aid grain mill accessory. I wondered
about that a couple weeks ago and read my Kitchen Aid mixer manual. Whether
it would give an acceptable crush I don't know, but the manual cautions not
to process more than 10 cups of grain at one time and to let it cool at
least 45 minutes before using again. This could make for a long crush.
...Tom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 11:55:00 -0600
From: keithfrank@dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Low/no alcohol beer / Hop oil for bittering
***** from Bruce DeBolt *****
Since my note last week on low/no alcohol I received requests for
information so will post more details.
I would suggest this method, or something similar to it as a starting point
so you don't make a whole batch that isn't to your liking. I took one
bottle of an American Pale Ale homebrew (bitter with lots of hop aroma) and:
- heated in a small stainless steel pot with stirring to 175-180F for about
10 minutes to drive off most/all of the ethanol (ethanol/water azeotrope 172F)
- cooled rapidly in a sink of cold water (swirled the contents in the pot to
drive the cooling faster)
- poured through a funnel into a 20 oz. PET bottle
- screwed on the Carbonator Cap (TM) and pressured the bottle to 25 psi with
CO2 from my keg cylinder
- shook vigourously, placed in ice water bath
- bottle will absorb the CO2, you can tell by it becoming "softer". Repeat
CO2 addition again at 25 psi and shake again
At this point its just a matter of how long you want to wait, I got good
carbonation is less than one hour with this method. On my second attempt I
only heated the beer at 175-180 for five minutes, with stirrring and the
flavor was the same as the first attempt. It had a somewhat background
taste to some of the mega no alcohol beers but with more hop bitterness and
more "character". The pregnant friend consuming it liked it much better than
her other options. We added a drop of hop aroma oil to the second bottle to
improve it slightly.
I plan to try this with some other styles (stout, brown, etc.) to see which
ones are most pleasing and will report the subjective results. Overall I
didn't like the no alcohol American Ale made above very much but it was
better than O'Doulls, etc. and I had the option of drinking the unaduterated
version. If you don't have access to a CO2 cylinder then try to find
someone who does. I got the Carbonator Cap from the local homebrew store.
What was the alcohol content? I don't know yet. Someone sent me a private
note on a Vinometer which is used in wineries to determine alcohol content
by capillary action(?) and is very cheap. I accidentally deleted the message.
Can the person who sent this find out if a vinometer is accurate in beer in
a low/no alocohol range? We are looking for a gas chromatograph at work to
do a quick check, but it may be awhile. From the flavor of the beer made
above it seemed that there was very little if any alcohol in it, no mental
affects either.
The recommendations I've seen elsewhere for a whole batch call for making
a lower gravity brew from extract, then heating the fermented beer to
170-180F for some period of time. This will drive off the alcohol and kill
all your yeast. Also watch out that you don't inhale the ethanol you may
be trying to avoid, one article mentioned the quick buzz that
occurred from being too close to the pot when it starting evolving vapor.
Keep in mind you are more subject to infection without the alcohol present,
so cool the no alcohol concoction rapidly, and mix in 1-2 packs of rehydrated
dry yeast, and priming sugar. Be especially careful about sanitation.
Better stir it well before bottling to prevent gushers or worse! I haven't
tried this yet, and probably won't since I can make whatever volume I want
in the PET bottles from existing beer.
- ------------------------------------------------
Someone asked about hop bitterying teas and said they didn't want to use
hop oil. I found hop bittering oil to be quite satisfactory, especially if
you are dosing individual glasses. It can also be carried in a pocket and
used to improve commercial beers when away from home. Keep it refrigerated,
it will eventually turn rancid if you don't. I know someone who has used
hop oil to adjust a keg and it worked fine, easy to know when to stop.
At DeFalco's (local homebrew supply store) they call hop bittering oil the
Shiner Bock Repair Kit, I couldn't agree more.
Bruce DeBolt
Lake Jackson, TX
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 11:14:39 MST
From: npyle@hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Top vs. Bottom / Temp. Swings / Malt Mail Order / HBD Value
John Pratte writes:
>If I use top-fermenting yeast,
>then the heat that is being produced in my tank should be on top.
>This tends to cut off any convection.
and
>If I use bottom-fermenting yeast, then the heat is produced on the
>bottom.
John, I really don't think this is anywhere near that simplistic.
"Top-fermenting" and "Bottom-fermenting" are, I believe, great
overstatements, or over-generalizations. If I'm correct all your
analysis is moot. I just don't think fermenter geometries can be
simplified to this level.
**
Ron Dwelle writes that he can't control the temperature in his fermentation
area, and:
> Any suggestions for a super cheapo temp controller (I use 5-gallon
> carboys, mostly).
Yes, water. Take a large trash can that will hold water, and put the carboy
in it. Fill it to a level that won't make your carboy float, and leave it.
With this water jacket, you'll increase the thermal mass of the system such
that temperature swings will have a negligable affect. If it is 5 gallons of
extra water, you've doubled the thermal mass; 10 gallons of water jacket and
you've tripled the thermal mass. Stick a thermometer in the water and I
think you'll see that temperature swings are not an issue anymore. This
tends to keep the temperature very close to the average, rather than varying
greatly around it.
**
Some friends of mine are getting together to order some malt in quantity and
I'm looking for suggestions on a good mail order house. We'll probably end
up with a need for around 10 (55 lb.) bags of Hugh Baird pale ale malt and
we're looking for a good price. Any suggestions?
**
Danny Owen writes how disappointed he is with the HBD, saying the protein
discussion is the last straw. Danny, this forum will NOT be everything to
everybody, it simply can't do this. It ebbs and flows like the tide and the
discussions are wide-ranging and far-reaching. I personally believe the HBD
to be one of the greatest forums in existence for learning to brew better
beer. Sorry if you don't like it, but the protein discussion is interesting
to a lot of people. It has application to lots of brewers who might be
wondering why their head retention isn't up to snuff. Or, maybe it is
completely without merit, but it is certainly worth discussing. Beats the
heck out of discussing air locks, IMHO, but I promise I won't gripe about
that.
On this subject, Keith Byer writes:
>Just can't tell you how valuable the Digest has been to me. Believe me,
>the homebrew learning curve for remote homebrewers (like myself) would be a
>steep one without the talented HBD players.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Cheers,
Norm
P.S. To the gentleman who sent me the Brewstorm transcripts, thank you! I've
lost your email (w/ name and address). Please contact me.
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 1994 13:35:11 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp@mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Convection/Source of heat
More on John M. Pratte's interesting post concerning Benard cells and
convection: I beleive that regardless of the yeast type (top or bottom
fermenting), most of the respiration and fermentation is done by the yeast
which is in suspension rather than that which has flocculated (either up or
down). Accordingly, most of the heat would be generated uniformly throughout
the fluid. Can anybody confirm or deny this assumption?
MPM
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1602, 12/12/94
*************************************
-------
