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HOMEBREW Digest #1567
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/11/01 04:40:26
HOMEBREW Digest #1567 Tue 01 November 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Iodohor test papers (Arthur McGregor 614-0205)
Cornelius keg source ("Klaus Vogel")
Re: hop utilization] ("Jeff Dudley, S29711@22681.utrcgw.utc.com")
RE: Something new? from A-B (John T Faulks)
Brewpots (John T Faulks)
vent pipe in Masher (George Danz (919) 405-3632)
HSA Information (Terry Terfinko)
hbd hardcopy ("Ulick Stafford")
air-lock germs (RONALD DWELLE)
Measuring alcohol (Spencer.W.Thomas)
King Koch's Folly (Keith Frank)
14th C Mead (Ted Major)
Gas Burners, Wort Chillers & SMM (Mark)
HBD contributors should implicitly surrender copyright ("Ulick Stafford")
Raspberry beer, the easy way. (L M Sabo)
Re: Copper Manifold (John DeCarlo )
Re: Kolsch and Cider (Jeff Benjamin)
clueless (Kyle Kotwica)
Cranberry Wheat Beer/Seattle Water (Jim Emery)
Re: DMS?, Hardcopy, aging barleywine, deodorizing pressure cooker, etc. (Gary Bell)
Re: HBD Hard Copy (Jeff Stampes)
Wit out a decotion mash (Hmbrewbob)
Sam Houston / Dixie cup (Rich Larsen)
Cider Bottles As Glass Carboys (Robert Mech)
Preserving One's [Copy]Right[s] (Richard A Childers)
Judging ("David Sapsis")
Spent Grain Bread Recipe (berkun)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 08:01:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Arthur McGregor 614-0205 <mcgregap@acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Iodohor test papers
Hi All,
In HBD #1560, Steve Jackson asked about the effective life of B-Bright and
iodophor for cleaning brewing equipment and bottles. I can't answer about
B-Bright,
but can talk a little bit about iodophor. You can buy iodine test papers from
many
homebrew stores and mail order. They are similar to pH test papers, and the
color
change depends on the strength of the iodine in p.p.m. (parts per million).
The
papers can then be used to determine if the iodophor is strong enough to for
sanitizing. The price is about $3/100 test strips. I have found that for
sanitizing bottles, the iodophor will last for a few weeks, but then my bottles
are
rinsed clean immediately after pouring the beer into a mug ;>)
A word of caution on the brands that are available - some brands have color
changes that are so small that the papers are worthless. I bought one type
through
the mail (BLUE RIDGE iodine test papers) and they stink! The color change is a
very
small blue tint, and the only concentration that has a dark enough color to
read is
50 ppm :>o) which is 4 times the strength needed. I recently went to a local
homebrew store and bought a different brand of iodine test papers that IS VERY
READABLE. They are made by: Precision Laboratories, Cincinnati, Ohio 45215.
The
color changes are black, and IMHO, much easier to use to determine if the
concentration is strong enough to sanitize :>). Three concentrations/colors
can be
checked: 12.5 ppm, 25 ppm, and 50 ppm. I can not verified whether the test
strips
are accurate, so will have to believe the folks at Precision Labs. I would
recommend that if your homebrew store does not carry any iodine test papers,
that
they _not_ stock a brand that is hard to read (such as BLUE RIDGE). So ask
questions
before buying if by mail order. Standard disclaimer, just hoppy!
Good Brews!
Art McGregor (mcgregap@acq.osd.mil)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 08:44:34 EDT
From: "Klaus Vogel" <VOGEL@net2.eos.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Cornelius keg source
I am looking for an economical source for cornelius kegs.I am from
Canada and the local supplier charges $70 for the standard 20 litre
stainless steel type.This is just too much for my budget.On a related
topic,is there any mail order homebrew suppliers located in
Canada?The costs and hassels of cross border mailing makes it just
not worth it.
A long time ago I submitted an article asking if it is safe to use
garbage containers(unused!!) for a primary.I recieved some thoyhtfull
replies and wish to thank these persons.However,I was still not sure
so I called Rubermaid technical imformation.They told me that they do
not put any harmfull substances in the formulations,but the cost of
food grade certification prevents them from assigning this
certification on anything but the special white containers that of
course cost more.
Has anyone heard of a brew recipy that uses blackstrap molassis?I
have heard of the wonderfull nutritional benifits of this product
which I believe to be the byproduct of suger refining,and would like
to make a health beer.Perhaps I will call it Life extension beer!!
Klaus
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 1994 08:52:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jeff Dudley, S29711@22681.utrcgw.utc.com" <S29711%22681@utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: Re: hop utilization]
In Friday's HBD Chris Lyons asks:
>I read this here in the HBD previously. Does this imply that if you
>boiled hops in plain water that you'd achieve a higher utilization?
>Would there be an advantage to boiling the hops in water, and then
>using this water for brewing?
Well Chris, I started out making a hop tea when I began brewing because my pot
wasn't big enough to hold a full boil. I noticed, though never quantified, a
higher extraction rate. All the brews I made this way turned out fine, be sure
to adjust your utilization percentage, I think I assumed 10-15% higher
utilization in the IBU calculation.
I was under the impression that the reason utilization is higher is because
high gravity worts boil at a lower temp due to the increase in dissolved
solids. It affects boiling (and freezing) point similar to salt. I wonder
what level of impact our brewing friends at high altitude experience.
If this is true, lets go one step further... Has anyone made the hop tea in
a pressure cooker?
jeff
<S29711@22681.utrcgw.utc.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 08:45:23 -0500
From: faulks@bng.ge.com (John T Faulks)
Subject: RE: Something new? from A-B
>From: cem@cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
>Subject: Something new? from A-B
>
>I saw a commercial on TV last night for a new beer from A-B
>called Red Wolf (as I remember). It was reddish in color with
>a Wolf on the label. Now, does anyone know if is this a decent
>product from an A-B aquisition or is it just a marketing gimmic
>to sell Bud with a squirt of food coloring in it.
>
>cheers for now
>chuckm
>
There was a festival of beers her last Friday night, and Red Wolf was there.
IMO the bottle label was the best part, but I have to also admit it is
better than budwater (TM). A bit more malt, a touch of color. It is
interesting to observe the megabrews setting up a separate stand for their
test market labels. Gennesse has been doing it for years.
________________________________________________________________________
John Faulks
Email: faulks@bng.ge.com Phone: 607 770 3959 8*255 3959 FAX 607 770 2007
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 08:45:37 -0500
From: faulks@bng.ge.com (John T Faulks)
Subject: Brewpots
>In Papazian's new book, he states that aluminum pots for brewing are O.K. for
>hombrewers as long as caustic solutions are not used to clean them. I would
>like to know the general consensus on this.... Anybody use aluminum? Produce
>any off tastes? Anybody know of any health implications? Any feedback would
>be appreciated. I have a chance to purchase a 22.5 gallon spun aluminum pot
>if it would work.....
>
I have used an aluminum pot for years for mashing and heating sparge water.
I now have a SS pot and didn't notice any changes over the last dozen
batches. I have an enabeled steel pot for the main kettle. FWIW I never
scrubbed the aluminum pot back to bright metal - it picked up a grungy
tarnish that didn't look that good, but made life easier during the cleanup.
________________________________________________________________________
John Faulks
Email: faulks@bng.ge.com Phone: 607 770 3959 8*255 3959 FAX 607 770 2007
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 09:53:21 EST
From: danz@edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz (919) 405-3632)
Subject: vent pipe in Masher
I've read with interest several references to a "vent" pipe
in the mash/tun designs being tried recently.
I don't have any kind of vent pipe in mine and some friends have done same all
with good results. I do ten gallon batches in a 60 quart Gott, they do same
with one of the sports coolers (i believe 40 quarts). Both of us use slip
fittings which probably act to add additional paths for wort to exit the cooler
when sparging.
We seem to get good extraction with this method. So what does the vent do?
And can't you adjust any vacuum which might form by just closing down the
valve on the spigot?
I have found that very good sparging rates occur with our system, and by letting
the level of wort go below the grain, in conjunction with Phil's Sparger, I
seem to be able to better rinse the gains and get very good extraction.
Any comments?
George Danz
danz@rtp.semi.harris.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:02:46 EST
From: terfintt@ttown.apci.com (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: HSA Information
I have seen several references in the HBD about Hot Side
Aeration (HSA). If I understand correctly, it is caused by allowing
to much air to be injected into the mash or sparged wort. Things
to avoid would be splashing or excessive stirring.
What are the affects of HSA? How can I determine if my beer
has an HSA problem? I checked two of my brewing books and
neither have any information on HSA. Hopefully the HBD can fill
in the knowledge gap here.
Terry Terfinko - terfintt@ttown.apci.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:32:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Ulick Stafford" <ulick@ulix.rad.nd.edu>
Subject: hbd hardcopy
I have to agree 100% with Bob Adamczyk. I find it highly amusing that so
many posters here are pompous enough to expect royalties for the drivel
they post. Get a grip on reality people - no one pays you now, and IMHO,
there is bugger all difference between this electronic method of promulgation
and someone making a hard copy. This issue has come up before concerning the
Cat's Miow, but the difference there is that someone has gone to a lot of
trouble making it publishable. And unedited downloads of hbd are of extremely
limited utility, IMHO.
Louis Bonham's informative post about Jim Koch's penchant for trying to
reserve trademarks was interesting (I was aware of the practice but not
of the legal specifics). How difficult would it be to prove that he
didn't have any intent to use the Sam Houston name, merely the intent
to prevent others using it? Expensive to fight I suppose, so chances are
others would just cave in. But then that is one of the outcomes of this
country's primitive legal system. Koch is hardly the only one who does it
(I heard stories of Apple computer trying to sue businesses that used the
name Apple or an Apple logo. In most case the areas of business were
completely different, and in some cases the firms had been called Apple
long before Apple computer came into being).
__________________________________________________________________________
'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s@&* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.
Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556
http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html | Ulick.Stafford@nd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:33:46 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: air-lock germs
What happens to the liquid in the air-lock after bubbles quit going
through it. Turn stale? grow bugs? If I have to leave the brew in a
carboy for a long time, should I remove the airlock and bung the hole?
Add chlorox to the airlock? Just let it be, relax, Have a home brew?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:46:00 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu
Subject: Measuring alcohol
Joseph Edward Kain Iii wrote about Brown mess on stove, cherry stout:
> My question is: If you add fruit to the secondary, how do you
> determine what this contributes to the alcohol content? This
> is essentially adding an unknown quantity of fermentable sugars
> plus some quantity of unfermentables.
Well, you can't compute it. You can measure it. This is from a FAQ
file I maintain on may WWW Beer Page. The first part is about
computing alcoholic content. The second part is how to measure it.
Alcohol content
Everybody seems to be interested in the alcohol content of their
brews. There are many formulae floating around to approximate alcohol
content. My favorite "quickie" is this: With typical attenuation, the
alcohol content in finished beer will be approximately 100*(OG-1)
%volume.
Balling gives the following, more accurate formula:
A = (OE-RE)/(2.0665-.010665*OE) (% weight)
Then, there are the old favorites for % alcohol by volume.
A = (OG - FG) * 125 * 1.05, or
A = (OG - FG) * 1000 / 7.5
Both of these estimate a little bit high for most worts, but only by
0.1 to 0.2 percent. Note that %volume is approximately %weight*1.25.
Ralph Snel (ralph@astro.lu.se) wrote: A quite simple way that will
give accuracy up to 0.1% is to boil off all the alcohol and substitute
by water. This means boiling down to less than a third of the original
volume in most cases, it's not that hard to smell if there are
alcohols in the vapour. Fill with water so you have your original
volume and take the difference in gravity, then look up alcohol
content in the table:
SG Alcohol SG Alcohol SG Alcohol
diff. vol % diff. vol % diff. vol %
0 0.00 10 7.18 20 16.00
1 0.64 11 7.98 21 17.00
2 1.30 12 8.80 22 18.00
3 1.98 13 9.65 23 19.00
4 2.68 14 10.51 24 20.00
5 3.39 15 11.40 25 21.00
6 4.11 16 12.30 26 22.00
7 4.85 17 13.20
8 5.61 18 14.10
9 6.39 19 15.10
10 7.18 20 16.00
From: Technisch handboek voor de amateur wijn- en biermaker by Leo van
der Straten ISBN 90-245-0969-6
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:06:18 -0600
From: keithfrank@dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: King Koch's Folly
**** from Mark Deweese ****
- -----------------------------------
King Koch's Folly by MK DeWeese
*******************************
King Koch came from the north, of fame and Boston brew,
Into our town of Austin to investigate Waterloo.
He had heard they brewed a beer there, and for this he did embark,
His aim to stop the little pub from using his trademark.
The beer "Sam Houston's Austin Lager", to this he did protest,
"You will cease the use immediately if you know for you what's best!"
"You're infringing on my trademark and for this I will not stand",
"To the name Sam Houston I claim exclusive rights, and your use thereof
I shall ban!"
But the Texas pub thumbed it's nose and with a forceful yell,
Told King Koch to take his trademark and with it go straight to hell!
This alarmed the king you see, this show of Texas pride,
He'd thought they'd quiver at his presence and with his will abide.
But you see, Jim ol' boy - here in Texas - we lovers of the brew,
Are sick and tired of your escapades and we won't cow down to you!
You can't go across the country claiming for yourself,
The name of every public place and person to advance Boston Beer Co.'s wealth.
The Founding Fathers and Patriots did not intend for you -
To use their names exclusively on every bottle of your brew.
These men served for our whole country and to all of us they belong,
And for you to claim exclusive rights, well, you couldn't be more wrong.
So take your yankee attitude back to Boston, Mass.,
Before we get a rope - tie you up, and into Lake Travis, throw your sorry ass!
________________________________________________________________________
* The folks at Waterloo brew pub had nothing to do with the context of
this verse. I assume full responsibility for it's content...the bard
* Oh yeah, I almost forgot... Copyright 1994, M.K.DeWeese, All rights
reserved. HBD'ers are exempt.
Mark Deweese
c/o keithfrank@dow.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 11:17:46 EST
From: tmajor@parallel.park.uga.edu (Ted Major)
Subject: 14th C Mead
Greetings. As a new homebrewer and English graduate student, I have
come across an unpublished 14th Century manuscript which contains a
Middle English mead recipe. I plan to experiment soon, and I thought
I would share it with the net. Please feel free to respond with
suggestions, comments, and opinions.
For to mak mede: Take 1 gallon of fyn honey and to that 4 gallons of water.
Heat the water and add the honey. Bring to a boil as long as "any filthe
ryseth" and skim. Let it cool until it is as cold as milk [body temp in
those days, I imagine] and cast into it barm or the drasts (lees) of the
finest ale. Lay straw or cloths about the vessel and above if the weather
is cold and let stand 3 days and nights if the weather is cold or if it is
hot weather, 1 day and 1 night is enough. Assay thereof and if you would
have it sweet take it the sooner from the drasts and if you would have it
sharp let it stand longer therewith. Then draw it from the drasts as clear
as you may into another clean vessel and let it stand 1 night or 2 and then
draw it into another clean vessel and serve it forth.
I'll be bottling my first ale in 2 weeks, so I should have some lees handy.
Any other adventurous souls out there?
Tidmarsh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 09:40:00 -0600
From: Mark <markc@ssd.fsi.com>
Subject: Gas Burners, Wort Chillers & SMM
I've missed a new acronym in this DMS thread. What is SMM?
Secondly, I'm thinking of moving the brewing out of the kitchen
and into the garage. I've got a natural gas outlet in my garage
and I'm wondering what kind of burner I need to hook up to this
short of buying a gas range. Do they make these as singles?
Thirdly, I was going to make a wort chiller. It seems everyone
is using 1/2 inch diameter tubing. I can buy 25 feet of 1/2 inch
for the same price as 60 ft. of 1/4 inch. Adding up the surface
area, it seems I could get about 17% more cooling power for my
money. Any reason not to go with the 1/4 inch?
Happy Brewing, mark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 11:49:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Ulick Stafford" <ulick@ulix.rad.nd.edu>
Subject: HBD contributors should implicitly surrender copyright
This is my second post today, but was made after scanning rec.crafts.brewing
and seeing a shameful Jim Kochish thread that made me feel ashamed as
a contributor to hbd. The post follows ...
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
>Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest Hardcopy Edition
I scanned this group and read two threads - one about Jim Koch and one about
this. I can only say that right now I feel ashamed as a contributor to
electronic homebrewing fora, because of the arrogant, pompous posts I have
seen from so many regarding their wonderful works and their right to them.
Thanks to your arrogant pompous protection of the drivel you write, the
person who was willing to further spread your writing and name has agreed
to not risk your Jim Koch tactics. Do you know how much people pay to
get their academic works published? This man was willing to spread your
writings for free. Shame on all of you.
And I am not so sure that his publication wouldn't have been legally
considered fair use, but then I am not sure. If he had scanned the posts and
extracted many posts written by one person and compiled that into a book, I
could see that that would be a copyright violation. However, the law
may not view the republication of an electronic bulletin board as a violation.
The law is a lot less anal retentive about fair use than most of you are
(I recently checked because I had to copyright my Ph.D. dissertation which
included a number of figures published elsewhere. This was considered fair
use and I didn't need to get permission).
(And how many of you go out of your way to use free software?)
_____End of post__________________________________________________________
But I have a solution. I think that there should be language in hbd that
a post made to hbd implies an implicit surrender of copyright. HBD
itself should be copyrighted much as GNU software is. And if anyone wants
to reproduce hardcopies, they should need only seek permission from the
HBD committee (to be elected for this purpose to do so) to reproduce hbd
and charge production costs. I personally thought the hardcopy development
was a good idea. It is just such a shame that the spirit of Jim Koch
has spread to so many.
__________________________________________________________________________
'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s@&* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.
Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556
http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html | Ulick.Stafford@nd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:28:44 -0700
From: lmsabo@mbnoa1.mnet.uswest.com (L M Sabo)
Subject: Raspberry beer, the easy way.
The technique I plan to use, on a raspberry ale I have in the primary
now, is to prime with a raspberry liqueur. This technique is described in
The Brewers Companion book (you know the book with all the charts and
stuff). I'm concerned about the proper priming. However The Brewers
Companion does provide so help with that.
The benefits of using liqueur appear to be ease of use and little chance of
infection. If this beer turns out I'll post my recipe.
While I'm on, I have a few comments and questions for the group. I often
see that wheat recipes call for a fine grind. I grind my malt at the
homebrew shop where I purchase it. Because I don't want to mess with
any of the adjustments on someone else's equipment, I double grind my
wheat. Does that technique make for a fine crush?
Another thing that I have been thinking about is HSA. I know that at times
HSA has been beat to death in this forum but I would like to understand
the following. Do I need to worry about HSA during the mash? Just
wondering here if the boil removes the oxygen. Secondly, it seems to me
that the pumps on a RIMS system could be a source for HSA. Is that
possible?
_Michael
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 12:41:16 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo@homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Copper Manifold
I will tell you one thing about copper manifold design to beware of, at least
for those of us who are mechanically challenged.
I bought a spiral of soft copper tubing, hacksawed some slots, mashed one end
closed, and bent the other end so it would come out of the top of the mash tun
(brewpot on stove). Worked great.
However, it was covered with lots of grain at the end, I used to just pull it
out, through the grain. This caused some bending and such.
All the slots that went about half-way through got bent, so that you could see
1/4 or so of the tubing from either direction (looks like two tubes sharing
half their diameter, rather than a slot). I have mashed things back together,
but it is not a nice slot any more.
So, my take on this, which may be corrected by those more knowledgeable and
sensible, is that you shouldn't cut slots half-way through, but maybe at most
1/4 way down. Also, don't lift out the manifold, which causes bending, but
remove the grain first.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:49:40 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Kolsch and Cider
> 1 - I currently have a Kolsch beer in the primary fermenter, and I used
> the Wyeast Kolsch yeast. ...Perhaps a warm primary and cold secondary
> fermentation?
Your last guess is correct. Kolsch is fermented at ale temps (probably
low 60s F), and then "cold conditioned", or stored at lagering temps in
the secondary. Try the primary at your normal ale temps, then cold
condition for a two weeks to a month at around 38-40F.
> 2 - I also have an apple cider bubbling away. ...The
> question here is: Is this stuff supposed to smell this bad?
The horrible smell is typical of fermenting cider. My guess is that
apple juice has a lot more sulfur compounds than wort that are consumed
and then vented by the yeast. Just let it go and be patient. Cider
takes much longer to ferment and age than beer, so just wait and
eventually the smell will go away.
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji@fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:20:16 PST
From: kotwica@ATS.ORST.EDU (Kyle Kotwica)
Subject: clueless
I'm clueless. I got lbs of pears the other day and got tired of
eating them so I thought I'd drink em.
I took 7# of extract, 1# honey, some hops, boiled away. Then I steeped
about 5# of choped peeled and cored pears and some cinnimin at 170 for
15 min. Then threw the hole mess in a bucket. The next morning I addded
some more hops and yeast, that was friday, its now monday.
OK; I've never dry hopped before, and never used an open fermenter.
Heres the problem, the OG was 1.040 fri its now 1.045. I'm not sure
whats going on. Normally with this yeast I've got foam all over the
house by now. All the hops floated to the top so I assumed that it was
bubbling away underneeth, but now I'm not sure. The stuffs been sitting
at around 68 degrees. It seems to be fermenting just not vary vigourously
and the gravity is increasing. I guess I'll rack it off throw in some
more yeast and let it sit in a carboy. But could anybody explain what
I've done?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:24:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Emery <jimery@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Cranberry Wheat Beer/Seattle Water
Hi all. I've got a Cranberry Wheat Beer that has been fermenting for 16
days now. After one week, fermentation had slowed so I racked it off the
large amount of trub (mostly seemed to be cranberry remains) into the
secondary. After racking, fermentation seemed to pick up again. Its
still bubbling happily along in the secondary after 16 days. A week ago,
the gravity was 1.022 and yesterday it was 1.012. My question is, is
this an excessively long ferment time? The temp has been between 65 and
70 for the length of the ferment. The recipe used a can of Ireks 100%
Wheat extract and a pound of Pale malt and a pound of wheat mashed at 150
F for an hour.
I was also wondering if anyone has any experience with Wyeast Bavarian
Wiezen yeast. I made a starter and pitched this yeast into the wort.
Fermentation started very soon after. Is Bavarian Weizen known for a
slow but steady fermentation? I believe it is supposed to add a bit of a
sour flavor to the beer. How does it do this...lactic acid producing
bacteria perhaps?
My last question involves my local water supply. The water here is very
high in ph (7.8 and rumoured to be above 8 at times) and has a very low
carbonate level. I've added gypsum to increase the carbonate and lower
the ph. I also added a bit of lactic acid to help lower the ph to a more
appropriate level for the mash. Does anyone have experience with lactic
acid? I could do some testing to determine how much lactic acid to add
to lower the ph but have been unable to find any recomendations on how
much various amounts of lactic acid will lower the ph of a given volume
of water. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Cheers. Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:34:54 -0800
From: gbell@ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: Re: DMS?, Hardcopy, aging barleywine, deodorizing pressure cooker, etc.
1. Algis R Korzonas wrote about DMS and SMM. For the un-initiated, what
are you talking about? Acronyms are great, but only if you know what
they stand for!
2. Poor Clay Glenn. I think his intentions were [mostly] honorable.
Perhaps what he should be working on is simply an index to HBD rather
than a printed version.
I, for one, *might* purchase such an index *if* it didn't cost, say,
$200 per year. Of course, he'd be much more popular if he just did it
out of the goodness of his heart and posted it to the HBD archives, but
then breweries would be more popular if they gave their beer away for
free too.
3. Jeff Stampes asks:
>What's the oldest barleywine anyone out there has kept? I brewed one
about 15 >months ago, and still have two bottles left that I'll be
cracking open shortly >. . . I was just wondering if anyone has kept any
over a year & a half, and if >so, did they continue to improve?
My first barleywine just gets better and better at 18 months old. Thomas
Hardy Ale has on its label that it gets better with great age, and may
be kept for at least 25 years. By nature of their high alcohol content
and hopping rates barleywines should keep at *least* as long as a good
red wine. I'd like to know if anyone out there has had any *really* old
barleywine.
4. Terry Terfinko had a nasty plastic odor in his bargain pressure
cooker. If all else fails you might try potassium hydroxide solution
which should leave the pot shiny clean, very sterile, and odor free. But
what if it's aluminum? Will KOH do anything to aluminum that you would
want to be reminded of later?
5. Jeffpolo@Eskimo.com signed off with...
>"There is no BEER in Heaven, that is why we DRINK it here!"
As I recall the song goes:
"In heaven there is no beer;
That's why we drink it here.
And when we're gone from here,
All our friends will be drinking all our beer!"
For what it's worth.
Gary,
"Quis dolor cui dolium?"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 11:26:56 MST
From: jeff@neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Re: HBD Hard Copy
As I flamed Clay Glenn on the hbd regarding his Hard Copy version he
plans on selling, and got a considerable positive response regarding
my flames via private EMail, I will occupy a nominal amount of bandwidth
here to briefly summarize his response to me, and my feelings . . . then
I will gladly let it drop and return to regularly scheduled beer talk.
Presuming everything he says is true, then the problem lies not in his
idea, but his presentation of it. He was making hardcopies for the
members of his brew club that did not have Internet access, and it was
proving an expensive job. He thought if he could have more copies
of it printed and bound, it would bring down costs, making it a
financially "break-even" talk, rather than a losing one.
An Honorable thought, no doubt. My suggestion would be to put a
message on hbd explaining exactly what's going on, what you're thinking
of doing, and soliciting suggestions and thoughts via email from
us, the contributors. But when you put a message up advertising that
some 'publishing' company is going to 'sell' hardcopies of our ideas
without soliciting our input, you had better be wearing your asbestos
jock strap.
I support helping homebrewers become better brewers, I just do not
support the "Publishing" (which is how it was presented to us) of
other's ideas without their expressed written consent, whether they
have a friggin' (c) 1994 on their thoughts or not.
Just my thoughts . . . forgive the digression of valuable bandwidth.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Stampes | "And on the Eighth Day God
jeff@neocad.com | created Homebrew . . . and
Boulder, Co | hasn't been heard from since"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"God wrote this book, and It sez here in this book God made us in
his image, so if we're dumb, then God is Dumb, and a little ugly
on the side!" - Frank Zappa
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 15:24:28 -0500
From: Hmbrewbob@aol.com
Subject: Wit out a decotion mash
I am going to attempt a Belgian Wit and would like the opinion of the
HBD'ers on the procedure that I will be using. I have settled on using the
recipe from the last issue of Zymurgy w/ a twist of lactic acid. I also read
and liked Lee Bussy's summary on Wit.
Because I am using 4 lbs. of Belgian pale malt to 5 lbs. of flaked adjunct
(4 wheat & 1 oats) I'm concerned, not worried, about 1.Conversion & 2.Set
mash. I agree w/ Lee that a decoction schedule is needed here but,once was
enough for me ....this is suppose to be fun.
What I've come up with is a temp step mash with the long protein rest as
per Lee's suggestion( 45 min.@ 126F.)but I'm going to use 1/2 teaspoon
amylase enzyme at the beginning to help in the conversion of starch to simple
sugar. Yes, I understand that complete and total coversion is undesirable but
I don't think the 4lbs. of pale malt has near enough enzymes to convert >50%
adjunct. This additition of enzyme will be denatured when I do sacch. @
155F.for 2 hrs. I'll mash-out @ 175F. to thin out the mash and prevent a
stuck mash...I hope.
I haven't seen any info. on the use of amylase enzyme other than in the
secondary to further attenuate a beer ie.IPA. Any comments or suggestions
will be greatly appreciated. TIA
Instead of using bacteria cultures(dangerous business) I'll be adding
lactic acid @ bottling time until a PH of 4.2-4.4 is reached.
Hoppy
Brewing,
Bobdabrewer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 13:16:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen@free.org>
Subject: Sam Houston / Dixie cup
>From: msharp@Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp) Writes
>Subject: Koch again
>Yesterday's HBD brought us lots of info on what Jim(TM) Koch(TM)
>has been up to:
<snip>
>It would be _REALLY_ nice to see him on the receiving end.
What about Sam Houston State University? I think they may be interested
in this discussion. They've been using "Sam Houston" Since around 1864.
Q: Is it your Alma Matter if you went there but didn't graduate from there?
On a beer note:
Will anyone be posting the results from the Dixie Cup?
=> Rich (rlarsen@squeaky.free.org)
_______________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
"I never drink... wine" Bela Lugosi as Dracula
_______________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 15:34:56 CST
From: rwmech@eagle.ais.net (Robert Mech)
Subject: Cider Bottles As Glass Carboys
This year I decided to brew Cider as part of the fall season. In my quest for
cider recipes I ran across something intresting. Many of the recipes I found
said to RE-USE Glass Cider Bottle containers as glass carboys for the cider.
After some though I couldnt see why not to use them for glass carboys all the
time. Granted that you would have to use 5 of them, instead of one 5 gallon
carboy, but I couldnt think of any reason why not to use it.
Question, can anyone else think of a reason why I shouldnt use old cider
bottles for carboys? Ive already removed the labels and soaked them in
bleach, so I have no worries about them being sanitary. Has anyone used them
for this? I already have a glass carboy, but I thought that I could use
these in addition to store other batches (Such as my cider) that I fermenting
in another fermentor.
Any input anyone has on this would be greatly appreciated.
Robert
- ---
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|+#####+ Relax, | Robert W. Mech - rwmech@eagle.ais.net |
|| |-+ Don't | Freelance Programming, Support and Administration |
|| | | worry, |---------------------------------------------------------+
|| |-+ have a | Share your brew too! WWW Server | This space is for |
||_____| homebrew!| http://freak.ais.net/home.html | rent, email me. |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 07:54:20 -0800
From: pascal@netcom.com (Richard A Childers)
Subject: Preserving One's [Copy]Right[s]
kasperow@husc.harvard.edu relates :
"He stated that when a post does contain an explicit copyright notice,
he will contact the author for permission to publish it or exclude the
post from the hardcopy edition.
"Doesn't sound so bad after all. I wish him good luck."
Clearly, <clayglen@netcom.com> does not understand copyright law. He sent
me the same form letter, which seemed to imply that he had not bothered
to read the contents.
The fact is that one does not need to explicitly say
(C) Copyright 1994 Richard Childers - All Rights Reserved
... in order to own the copyright. If you wrote it, you own it. The above
notice helps establish ownership in case of a conflict, but with prior
publication on a computerized Digest spread around the world and backed
up on computer tape, similarly, there is no contest - it's not debatable
who produced the words first ... ergo, it is not debatable who owns the
copyright. <clayglen@netcom.com> will have to contact *everyone*. (-:
walter@lamar.ColoState.EDU sneers :
> If I find you publishing or selling anything I have said without having
> first arranged it with me in writing, I will sue you into the ground.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
" Well, it seems we have a budding Jim Koch ;^>"
Um. I'm not too fond of lawyers either, but let's discriminate between
the *law* and the parasites whom make the complication of the laws, the
interpretation of the laws, and the enforcement of laws, an arcane and
incomprehensible matter ... the better to fleece the unsuspecting and
all-too-trusting public.
That having been said ... it also has to be noted that some people just
don't listen, and one has to speak loudly and firmly to get through.
Jim Koch comes to mind. You won't get anywhere with him until you deal with
him in the language he respects ... power and deceit and money and legalese.
I encourage everyone to inform themselves of the laws that affect their
lives and to enforce their rights vigorously.
"And the ad seemed to imply that other useful documents would be included
also; could he be talking FAQ's and such?"
That was my interpretation of it.
#ifdef PHILOSOPHICAL
People will do exactly what you let them get away with. If you don't draw
the line, they will. If you do draw the line, they'll start smudging it.
Thus, I have no problem with drawing my lines broadly and clearly, for the
edification of those whom apparently are in need of such boundaries.
#endif PHILOSOPHICAL
- -- richard
"I gathered I wasn't very well liked. Somehow, the feeling pleased me."
_Nine Princes In Amber_, by Roger Zelazny
richard childers san francisco, california pascal@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 14:51:50 CST
From: "David Sapsis" <dbsapsis@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Judging
Although I recieved a couple of responses to my post concerning what to do
about deviations of style, and I will relay these, I found Bob Jones
comments in HBD 1565 to be an example of exactly what is wrong with many
competitions -- that is: a diliberate distortion of the beer to gain
competitive advantage. I suppose it all depends on why one enters beers in
competitions anyway, and even then, maybe my impressions and ethics are not
transferable. Personally, I occasionally enter a beer that I feel really shows
off my capacity for understanding the art and science of brewing: quality
ingredients, recipe formulation, and technical control of the brewing
process all contributing to make a product that demonstrates a good beer
that fits within style. That said, some styles are wholeheartedly more
rigourously defined than others. But I do not *ever* formulate beers in an
attempt to gain competitive advantage if that means distorting the style
based on judging proclivities. I believe to do so does a disservice to the
homebrewing community by perpetuating the well documented problem of larger
beers dominating categories where smaller beers are more appropriate.
Again, I believe that both training and competition practices can go a long
way to check this, but the idea of puposefully entering beers out of
character with the intent of waylaying the judges into submission really
bugs me.
Why do you brew? To win ribbons? Not me. I dont need other
people to tell me my beer is good or bad, I'm fully capable of reaching
that decision myself. And so are my freinds that can freely choose to
either drink my beer or not. When I enter a competition, it is not out of
need, rather simply to see how independent and hopefully knowledgable folks
feel about a given beer. I only enter beers that I think are good AND
appropriate. If the judges feel otherwise, fine by me. Who am I to say
they're wrong that they don't like it.
That said, however, I also enter beers with the secondary objective of
assessing the current status of judging. So often, judges are not acting
independently, and one sactimonious judge leads others by the hand to his
or her own conclusions. And often, these conclusions are not based on good
sensory information. Recently, I entered a barleywine in a competition
largley due to suggestions from members of my club. It made it past the
first round with good scores all above 35. In the final round it got scores
all below 30. No problem there, its just that *all three* judges wrote that
it had an astringency defect. Not I nor anyone else thast tried this beer
noticed this, and I really don't think it was there. It was massively
bitter, but I have no problem differentiating bitterness from astringency.
Part of the problem is sensory, and part of the problem (in this case) was
proceedural: the competition category for this beer included strong beers,
meads, and fruit/specialty beers. Hey, even I know its tough to compare
golden peach ales with barleywines. But in the case of the AHA nationals,
why would you judge Imperial Stouts against Irish Dry Stouts? If anyone
thinks that Imperials are more similar to dry stouts than barleywines, I've
got a few beers for you to try.
In any event, I recieved two responses concerning what to do about
demeriting a beer that is percieved to be out of style. Ulick suggested
marking the beer as if it were entered in its appropriate category, but
disqualifying it from recieving a ribbon. John DeCarlo suggested, and
correctly enough, simply follow the scoring guide printed at the bottom of
the standard judge form. That is, the most points a beer can recieve that
"does not exemplify style" is right there in black and white: its 24. The
problem I see with both of these suggestions is that it deems
exemplification as a binary rule: it either fits or it dosn't.
Additionally, all divergences are treated equally. Is a beer viewed to be
out of its stated substyle but within another substyle that is within the
purview of the category as egregious as a beer that belongs in a whole
different category altogether. Personally, I view the divergence issue as a
continuum, and would like there to be a range of penalties available that
are commensurate with the degree of deviation. Maybe I should just
RDWAHAHB! and forget about it. ...
cheers,
dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 16:16:05 PST
From: berkun@decwet.enet.dec.com
Subject: Spent Grain Bread Recipe
Inspired by the discussion of spent grain in bread, I decided to try
it out - the lazy man's way - with our new bread machine.
Modifying a whole wheat recipe, it went something like this:
1 1/8 cups water
1 TBSP butter
1 TBSP maple surple
about 3 cups unbleached white flour (maybe a little more)
1 1/4 cup spent grains (mostly 2 row British Pale Ale malt)
1 1/2 tsp salt
1 packet yeast
Cooked it on the regular wheat bread setting on our Breadman machine.
It was delicious! Very light (it rose like the dickens) and the
grains are not so plentiful as to stick in your teeth, but gave the
loaf a nice texture, color and flavor.
I've already composted the rest of this batch, but from now on I hold
some out in the freezer to add to bread.
Joe Bob Bread says check it out.
Ken B.
Seattle
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1567, 11/01/94
*************************************
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