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HOMEBREW Digest #1547
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/10/08 00:40:48
HOMEBREW Digest #1547 Sat 08 October 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Filtration Summary (again) (GubGuy)
RE: No. Cal. BJCP Exam (Rmarsh747)
malt and cider (uswlsrap)
Refrigeration Unit (Diane S. Put)
Re: yeast head contact with air is good? (Tel +44 784 443167)
bottles ("pratte")
Lagering (A.J. deLange)
OVERpitching/Munich-Vienna mash (FLATTER)
copper bottoms/ rollermills (Ed Hitchcock)
chlorine troubleshoot (RONALD DWELLE)
RE: Yeast head contact with air / Irish Ale yeast ("Steve Veillette, WCSU Information Systems")
Sankey Fermenters (George J Fix)
Re: Raspberry Beer (L M Sabo)
Free yeast---Observations (Steven Lichtenberg)
Homebrewed Roller Mill (npyle)
more on wheat / alcohol content / bjcp records / ZYMURGY (uswlsrap)
Water Heater Conversion (npyle)
Liberty Ale recipe request (Ken Schroeder)
Star anise, anyone? (VIALEGGIO)
Re: Overpitching (Gordon Baldwin)
Don't remove ("Hutchinson, Sharon - Cust. Sup")
Re: Trippel vs Tripel (Rick Starke)
Can you rack too early? / Pale Malt Mash question (Barry Nisly)
Dry Yeast--Some words (Patrick Weix)
Brewing with Maple sap (David Desroches)
Re: Metal Plating Brew Kettles ("Palmer.John")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 21:05:01 EDT
From: GubGuy@aol.com
Subject: Filtration Summary (again)
(This was sent sometime last week but I haven't seen it posted yet. I don't
know if it was lost or deleted or what. It may even still be on the list to
post. Please excuse if this happens to get posted twice.)
Thanks to all for the replies I received on the subject of aeration filters.
There were many suggestions, which I will list:
1: Use a small plastic jar (like a pill bottle), with nipples at either end,
packed with cotton balls
slightly damped with grain alcohol.
2: Medical filter for oxygenating blood. (I assume this would be for
something like dialysis;
I've been in the medical field 10 years and am unaware if such a filter
exists.)
3: The "Bubble Jar" method; a sealable jar with an in & out tube attatched.
The filter pushes
the air through the in tube and bubbles through a solution of sterilant
(dilute bleach, alcohol,
hydrogen peroxide, etc.)
4: And the winning entry, submitted by Christopher Sack:
The filter for the aquarium pump is very simply a 1" OD x ~6" long glass
or copper tube that is filled with aquarium activated charcoal to remove
any smells/chemicals. Each end is fitted with a plug or sterile cotton to
keep the charcoal in place and to serve as a filter for particles/nasties.
Use a single holed rubber stopper on either end to attatch the incoming and
outgoing air tubes. Refer to the crude ASCII drawing if still confused.
__________________
_ _
| \**xxxxxxxxxxxxxx**/ | == air
tube in/out
out < =====**xxxxxxxxxxxxxx**====== <in ** sterile cotton
|_ /**xxxxxxxxxxxxxx**\_| xx activated
charcoal
__________________
This seemed the best design, pretty much in line with what I was thinking.
What
I actually ended up doing was sometning a little different. I took a small
jar, drilled
two holes in the top. Ran the "in" tubing to the bottom of the jar (through
one of the
holes in the lid). Packed some cotton on top of the tubing, put activated
aquarium
charcoal on top of that, covered with more cotton. The remaining hole in the
lid is
for the "out" tubing. The incoming air has to circulate through two cotton
layers and
a layer of charcoal before exiting. This is much along the lines of the
above filter;
since I had no readily available tubing, this seemed a good alternative.
Re: my recent post on Lactic Acid. Many helpful responses, if anyone else
lives
in a beer wasteland, let me know & I'll send address of where to get some.
If enough
interest, will post all addresses I received. So much for my short summary.
GubGuy@aol.com Nunc est Bibendum (Latin; "Now is the time to drink")
-Ray Ownby- "In Wine there is Truth" -Dostoyevsky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 21:12:48 EDT
From: Rmarsh747@aol.com
Subject: RE: No. Cal. BJCP Exam
Rad Equipment wrote:
>Finally a BJCP Exam has been sceduled for Northern >California...This is the
only exam sceduled in the area for the next >six monthers or more.
Excuse me for asking, but what is the BJCP Exam, and what does it test? You
peeked my interest when you wrote "Get those study groups organized and hit
the beers, er books."
Thanks in advance for the answer.
BTW, thanks to all of you who answered my post asking about Dextrine vs.
Honey. It really helped.
Robert M.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 23:00:25 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.COM
Subject: malt and cider
- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------
To: I1010141--IBMMAIL
From: Bob Paolino
Research Analyst
Subject: malt and cider
Please share your experiences in making cider with malt added (to be
distinguished from beer with apple added ). I'd like to try it with some
recently pressed cider. Not sure if I want to do barley malt or wheat
malt, but I know I want the predominant character to be cider, so I
don't plan to use a lot--just enough to make it interesting and
different.
While on the subject, I saw a bottle in the package store cooler today
that looked a little like the old Grant's Yakima cider, except it was a
22oz bottle. A closer look revealed that it was a honey cider ale. No
nutritional information ;->, but it did mention that it was a malt
beverage fermented with apple juice and a just a touch of hops.
Anyone who's been reading the beer press for any reasonable length of
time knows about Bert Grant's battles with the BATF. It wasn't just over
the labelling controversy, though. There was also something about his
cider and how he isn't licensed as a winery, and therefore, they said,
he can't legally make cider. I don't recall the specifics, but that's
the essence of it.
When I tasted it, had I not seen the label I would not have guessed it
was anything but a cider. I wonder whether he's using just the tiniest
bit of malt to get around the BATF's goon tactics.
If you KNOW something about this, please share it with the digest crowd.
Personally, I don't want my alcohol-containing beverages to be anywhere
near tobacco and firearms.
Beer is good food,
Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 20:49:54 PDT
From: diput@eis.calstate.edu (Diane S. Put)
Subject: Refrigeration Unit
Hello all:
A few weeks ago I posted about an idea for a temperature-controlled
fermenter based on a 15.5 gallon keg. I was going to use the refrigeration
unit from a wall mounted drinking fountain. Well, as luck would have it,
I stumbled across this in a surplus catalogue:
Mini Refrigeration Unit
Item 1-1302 $47.50
One of our most unusual surplus buys. Originally built as a desktop
soda fountain, we are selling the cooling system and other parts
they contain. Use for custom built refrigerator compartments in
mobile homes, wine coolers, electrical equiptment, cooling, etc.
Compressor has a 1/12 HP, 115 VAC motor, 3.2 amps. The wrap-around
flexible cooling jacket is 33" X 8.5". In addition to the cooling
components, there are also solenoid valves, stirring motor, pump and
other misc. parts. Units are new and unused. Outer casing has been
removed and the carbonation chamber disabled bye the manufacturer to
preclude use in original application. Size 16" x 13" x 20".
Now, the thing that caught my eye is the "flexible cooling jacket." The size
is a bit too small to cover the diameter of the keg all the way, but it
should cover enough to keep the temperature within a set range, although I
don't know what the thermostat setup is on this unit. It should be easy to
modify/replace it if necessary. This band would cover a 5 gallon carboy
very well and could solve some of the "too hot to brew" problems some of you
have. It seems like a hell of a buy for a compact refrigeration unit.
For more info, call:
Surplus Center
(800) 488-3407 (24hrs, 7 days)
No affiliation, yada, yada, blah, blah......
don (previously of dput@csulb.edu)
(I'm currently in the cyberspace version of limbo as I've lost my university
account and have not yet signed up with a commercial provider. So, if you
mail me using the header address, I'm not sure I'll be able to respond, but
I'd welcome any comments.)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:05:21 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland@rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: yeast head contact with air is good?
In HBD 1546, especkma@halcyon.com (Erik Speckman) wrote:
>
> [Brian Gowland cites his source for an earlier comment that yeast should be
> left open to air once the fermentation is firmly established.]
>
> > Whilst I have no experience of detrimental effects of leaving the
> > fermentation covered, I can say that I have not had any bad ferments
> > when uncovered - the yeast seems to like it and thrives wonderfully.
>
> Around here I would worry about insects (mostly fruit flys) catching a
> whiff of my estery wort and then suffocating in the CO2 blanket and dying
> in my precious beer. At the very least I would keep the lid loosly on the
> fermenter in my "brewery".
>
Insects are the only thing that give me concern about open-fermenting
but I can honestly say that I have never found any dead fruit flys (or any
other flies) on my yeast head when using this method. There are normally a
number of fruit flies that try to get into my beer when I'm syphoning, but
they seem to stay away from the open-fermenter. Strange but, so far, true.
If anyone decides to try open-fermentation but are worried about beasties
then I would suggest some form of mesh cover rather than a solid lid.
Erik's words of caution may be more poignant to hotter climates - in Britain,
the fruit flies wear overcoats due to the cold and damp and are probably not
as active as in warmer places (the snow-shoes slow them down). :)
Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 07:24:01 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE@GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject: bottles
In yesterday's digest, Jim Blue mentions that he has been forced to
drink Rolling Rock beer in order to get the small 7 oz. bottles. A
possibly better source of small green bottles is Sprite. The glass in
these bottles is very thick (no problem with breaking), the green is
fairly dark (hopefully no light problems), and you don't have to
drink Rolling Rock (although, you do have to drink Sprite, but you
can always just give this to kids). I heartedly recommend these
bottles for when you don't want a lot of beer.
John Pratte--------------------------
Dr. John M. Pratte
Clayton State College
pratte@gg.csc.peachnet.edu
- --------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 08:09:57 est
From: A.J._deLange@csgi.com (A.J. deLange)
Subject: Lagering
Derek Bowen wrote:
> What is the lowest temperature which I should lager at ...?
It is generally accepted that the closer to freezing one can hold
the beer, the better the result. Lagering times are shorter at colder
temperatures and protein precipitation enhanced so that the result
will be clearer.
> Should I be lagering from day one or wait a few days before moving
> the beer to the colder area?
Generally speaking, lagers are pitched at quite cold temperatures
and then allowed to warm up a bit (say to 45-48F) as the kreusen
phase gets underway. At its end a brief excursion up to ale temper-
atures (diacetyl rest) may then programmed followed by a gradual
decline (a degree or 2 per day) to lagering temperature. Personally,
I use this program down to 40F, then transfer to Cornelius kegs and
hold at about 36 for a month. The kegs are then moved to a freezer
at just about 32 for the final lagering.
> Should I be racking the beer at some time or do all of the fermentation
> in the primary fermenter? And if so, doesn't the racking leave behind
> the yeast (after all, it is bottom fermenting!)
Lagering will not be succesfull if you do not bring some yeast into
the lagering vessel but you do not want too much. Yes, the beer should
be racked and the primary fermentation should be over to
the extent that most of the yeast has flocculated i.e. the beer is
reasonably, if not crystal, clear.
The usual problem with too much yeast is off flavors due to lysis of
dead yeast cells. Lagering temperatures are cold enough that this
process is greatly retarded so that a bit too much carried over is
not likely to cause a problem.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 1994 07:35:12 -0500 (EST)
From: FLATTER%MHS@mhs.rose-hulman.edu
Subject: OVERpitching/Munich-Vienna mash
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:33:47 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper@mq.edu.au>
Subject: Is it possible to OVERpitch???
One of our most experienced and knowledgeable members related his opinion
that it is possible for homebrewers to introduce off flavors (in
particular, diacetyl and/or DMS?) into their *ales* (not lagers, now) by
pitching *too much* yeast. My knee-jerk reaction was "you can't pitch
too much", having seen many many posts here to the effect that one of the
biggest hurdles for homebrewers to overcome is pitching *enough* yeast.
++++++++++++++
During the initial stage the yeasts multiple and take up oxygen. [That's
why you shake a carboy when you pitch yeast.] If too much oxygen is left
in the wort before the yeast change to digest sugars to produce alcohol
and CO2, I can see where the ethanol might break down to diacetyl; but
DMS would require sulphur. I don't see that a yeast would effect DMS.
- --------------
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Willits <willits@camelot.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Specialty Malts
1. Are caramunich and caravienna the same as munich and vienna
malts?
I would use them interchangeably. Then again, I probably would use any
one of the four for the other. They are sold by the same vendor as
different, but I haven't seen how they differ.
2. I have read in different places that munich and vienna malts are
crystal malts and also that they need to be mashed. It was my
understanding that crystal malts do not need to be mashed. Is this
correct?
No, not from what I have seen. Crystal has a low enzyme level, meaning
it needs to be mashed w/ something else w/ a more enzymes. [I use a
2-row, 6-row, Carapils (Dextrin), etc.] Munich and vienna are high in
enzyme levels and do not need additional grains to supply necessary
enzymes.
3. Does dextrin malt need to be mashed?
Yes, but it might only be a one-step infusion mash. [Read as: put the
grains in, bring water to boil, remove grains.]
4. I have read that crystal malts can break down at mash
temperatures. Is it a good idea to put them in just before the mashout?
Again, I put them in at the start of the mash because they do not contain
the needed enzymes to convert the protein to sugars.
- --------------
Neil Flatter Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Chemistry - Math (CMA) Department of Chemistry Stockroom Manager
Novell Supervisor 5500 Wabash Avenue 73
(812) 877 - 8316 Terre Haute, IN 47803-3999
FAX: 877 - 3198 Flatter@MHS.Rose-Hulman.Edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:01:37 -0300 (ADT)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock@sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: copper bottoms/ rollermills
Instead of fusing copper to the bottom of the stainless kettle,
just put a 1/8" (what would that be, 12 guage?) plate of copper on your
burner and sit the pot on it. No need to actually fuse the two. I
thought of doing this if I ever get a propane ring burner and 1/2 bbl
keg-kettle, since my friends with these have reported them as notorious
for scorching (stainless is a lousy heat conductor).
For roller mill spacing, George Fix wrote an article in the fall
1994 issue of Zymurgy that covers spacing. As for knurling, I'm sure
Jack would be delighted to give you the history as to why he switched
from longitudinal to diamond knurling. He will also expalain why it is
cheaper to buy one of his, and if you're in the states I think he's
right. (here in CAN the end price for a MM is up over $200 once you
include taxes and shipping and exchange rate...)
---------------
| Ed Hitchcock | Meet mt two dogs. This is my dog Ma,
| Biology Dept. | and this is my dog Earl.
| UCCB, NS, Can | UCCB doesn't take my word for it, why should you?
---------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 09:20:32 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: chlorine troubleshoot
Okay, I hate the troubleshooting questions when they come up
on HBD, but I got a problem and cannot figure it out.
My previous batch (2 weeks ago) has a distinct chlorine smell
and taste. This is after it's all done & bottled. I assume there
can't be chlorine in the batch, since the yeasties worked fine
during ferment and in making a nice carbonation in the bottle.
This was a full-mash pale ale, and the only peculiarity I can
identify is that I let the mash-out at the end go too high
(answering a phone call), and I actually got some (not
much--localized I think) boiling during mash out.
Now, my most recent batch, just bottled, has the same chlorine
smell and taste (though it's a dark stout and the chlorine is
masked a bit). Again, yeasties are working fine. I can't identify
anything that went wrong. I was just going to toss the first
batch and figure it was my one major unexplained screw-up for the
year (hopefully the only one). Now with the same nose in the
second batch I'm worried.
My wife says our soft city water has had more chlorine in it
lately (her sniffer is much better than mine), but I called the
city water dept and they said the only change recently is
something they've been adding to the water to treat lead pipes
(sorry, I blank out on chemical terms, the result of this
particular Chem 101 class 20 years ago).
By the way, the only other unaccounted for variable is that I
just started with a new 50-pound bag of Schrier 2-row. I assume
it's normal.
All ideas will be appreciated. Tossing whole batches seriously
upsets my supply/demand balance.
Cheers
Ron Dwelle (dweller@gvsu.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 9:24:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steve Veillette, WCSU Information Systems" <VEILLETTE@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU>
Subject: RE: Yeast head contact with air / Irish Ale yeast
Yeast head contact with air
- ---------------------------
In the Brewery Planner, put out by the IBS, one of the articles disucusses the
advantages and disadvantages of open and closed fermentation. One of the
advantages for open fermentation is (and I paraphrase, 'cause I ain't got the
book here at work...)
Yeast head contact with air is important because it makes the
yeast cells more virile for re-pitching into another batch.
Makes sense to me, since yeast need oxygen to reproduce. I can get the actual
quote tomorrow...
Irish Ale yeast
- ---------------
Many thanks to the people who responded to my post about the enthusiasm of the
Irish Ale yeast. The consensus seems to be that this strain gets *very*
excited about fermentation. After careful thought, I believe the infection
was present from the very beginnig in my starter culture- OUCH!
Sanitize, sanitize, sanitize...
Anyway, I will be brewing with the Irish Ale yeast again this weekend, and I
will be sure to connect a blowoff tube to the 6 gal. primary.
-Steve
+-------------------------------+
| Stephen P. Veillette |
| Information Systems | Ya know, I can't remember
| Western CT State University | *not* knowing how to brew.
| VEILLETTE@WCSU.CTSTATEU.EDU |
+-------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 10:04:14 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Sankey Fermenters
Mark writes in HBD#1546:
>For 3 years, I have been using 1/2 barrel Sankey kegs as fermenters with
>great success. I put in on my King Kooker and boil to sanitize. To clean,
>I used a soak of Super Washing Soda, which seemed to work. Earlier, I used
>caustic and acid wash, but gave up with a small child helper in and around
>the brewery. One particularly virgorous blow off left a stain on the
>underside of the top that I could feel with my fingers. That stain would
>not go away. Last week, I decided to cut the top off and survey the damage.
>I found what looked like rust stains above where the wort level would have
>been. It was really dried krausen. With some elbow grease, I managed to
>get it sparkling clean and I am doing an open ferment with a belgian strong
>ale. The area in direct contact with the wort were clean, but they did have
>a film of what I guess was beer stone.
This is an extremely important observation, and the phenomena Mark describes
is not uncommon with stainless fermenters. Beer stone and related "hard films"
start off at small and barely perceptible levels. Once formed, however,
they grow to a point where it is nearly impossible to remove them. Thus, it
is crucial that they be removed when they first appear.
I use with the unmodified kegs the following rather standard cleaning cycle.
The first step is pre-cleaning with a hot water spray. The second is an
alkaline wash/soak (washing soda, TSP, or caustic) followed by a hot water
rinse. Sequesting is done on the cold side with a 1% phosphoric acid wash.
Sanitizing can be done with boiling water (as much caution is needed for this
as with a caustic) or iodophor.
The phosphoric sequestering wash is great for removing inorganics from
alkaline cleaners. It, alas, is not very effective against beer stone.
Therefore, after the cleaning cycle I carefully investigate the interior
of the keg with a small flashlight. The color of the film is as Mark
described, and it will first appear in small and isolated patches.
The only way known to me to effectively remove beer sone is with a 5%
nitric acid solution, and even with this a carboy brush is needed.
Maximal precaution should be exercised (glove, goggles, etc.) for this
is really nasty stuff. It is hard to predict when beer stone will start
to appear. I once went ~2 years without a trace of these films, and boom
on the next brew they started to appear. As a rough and ready rule one
should be prepared for one to two nitric sequesters per year, yet
visual inspection with a flashlight should be done with each brew to
determine actual practice.
I value unmodified kegs as fermenters primarily they permit an easy way
to transfer fermented beer to storage kegs in a closed system. In
particular, sealing up the keg and pushing into say cornelius kegs
with CO2 prevents exposure of the fermented beer to the ambient
environment. In addition, if the receiving tank is purged with CO2 before
transfer and if a slight CO2 bleed from it is used during transfer, then
one can be assured of ~0 dissolved O2 levels during beer storage.
Cleaning these kegs is no picnic, and every time I do it the temptation to
go to open fermenters grows! I guess the moral is that there is no
"free lunch" in brewing. If one wants the advantages of a closed system,
then one must be prepared to pay the price, and on these sort issues
honest folk will undoubtly come to different conclusions.
George Fix
P.S. I look forward to meeting HBDers who will be attending the Dixie
Cup. All the signs are indicating that this one is going to be the best
ever!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:03:26 -0600
From: lmsabo@mbnoa1.mnet.uswest.com (L M Sabo)
Subject: Re: Raspberry Beer
I've made a couple of all-grain wheat beers (one two-step mash and
the other was a three step decoction mash) both had the common
chill haze. Although the decoction mash yielded much clearer beer in
my case, chill haze was still present. I was curious if the Weizen extracts
also were prone to chill haze or if the commercial manufacturers are
able to filter out the proteins.
_Michael
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:19:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve@Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil>
Subject: Free yeast---Observations
Greetings all--
The other day I was at the local brew pub talking to the brewer and came
up with some interesting observations. I asked him about getting some
yeast and as has been my experience often in small breweries he said
"sure" just bring in a container and get all you want. This is a great
way to not have to worry about starters and growing yeast for days/weeks
just to brew. Simply go the the nearest brew pub have a few pints :-)
and get as much starter yeast as you need. FREE!!! Not a bad solution.....
While I was there, I noticed the brewer was cleaning his copper kettles
with a solution of yeast DE and acid. The oxidation came off in
seconds. The copper was shining in no time. He said he learned that
technique while he was working at A-B. Really worked great. It reminded
me of when in another life we used to clean the griddles with pickle
juice. a good method for using something you would otherwise be throwing
away.. I asked the brewer there about what he does with all his spent
grains and he said he gives it to a couple of local farmers to feed to
the cows. He also stated that A-B used to take all of their spent grain,
used hops and spent yeast and run it through a dryer and then sell it to
Frank Purdue to feed to his chickens. they would get $120-140 per dried
ton from him. that was more than they spent per ton for grain!! No
wonder A-B makes >$1million per day. They take their garbage and sell it
for more than their raw materials.
Just an interesting thought....
Keep brewing...
**** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- ****
C|~~| -------------- Steven Lichtenberg ------------- C|~~|
`--' -------- steve@pentagon-emh6.army.mil ------- `--'
-------------------------------------------
ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 9:24:35 MDT
From: npyle@hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Homebrewed Roller Mill
Chris Barnhart wants to make his own roller mill:
>1. I'm going to have the rollers machined at a local shop. I can
>get them straight or diamond knurled, any preference? Also what
Are you saying your options are a "straight knurl" or a "diamond knurl"? I
know what diamond knurling is, but I don't understand straight knurling.
Maybe I misunderstand though, and you mean "smooth" or "diamond knurled". If
this is the case, definitely get the knurling (get some kind of knurling),
because...
>is the optimum diameter for the rollers? I thought I would use
>1 1/2 inch x 8 inches long.
1 1/2" rollers are not very big. I used 3 1/2" pipe for my rollers and was
able to get away with roughing them up with a belt sander and 60 grit paper.
Any smaller than this would require a rougher surface, e.g. knurled. The
length isn't critical unless you're worried about throughput; 8" is fine.
Throughput is an overrated mill specification for homebrewers, IMHO. My mill
crushes 10 lbs. of grain in less than a minute. If it took 5 or even 10
minutes, it wouldn't bother me a bit.
>2. I would like to motorize the mill. What size motor, torque
>rating, rpm, etc. would work best. I seem to remember a post
>saying you need at least a 1/4 HP motor, but don't think it
>mentioned required torque or rpm.
My motor is a Maytag washing machine motor. I don't have it here at work
because they won't let me bring it in anymore and show it off ;-), but you
can take a look at a typical washing machine motor. With four pulleys you
can slow it down to a reasonable speed. If you'd like me to go read the
specs off the motor (and measure the pulleys), email me and I'll do it.
>3. How to set the roller spacing for the best grind. Thought
>I'd use a feeler guage to get the spacing. Anyone seen a chart
>that gives settings for different grains? What about a rule of
>thumb like "set the gap 1/2 the diameter of the grain".
I think a good rule of thumb is to start at .050" and adjust from there.
Look at the ?Summer? 1994 Zymurgy for a couple of articles about the
available commercial mills. You can get a lot of good information from them.
Cheers,
Norm = npyle@hp7013.ecae.stortek.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 11:30:15 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.COM
Subject: more on wheat / alcohol content / bjcp records / ZYMURGY
- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------
To: I1010141--IBMMAIL
From: Bob Paolino
Research Analyst
Subject: more on wheat / alcohol content / bjcp records / ZYMURGY
1) Thanks to everyone for the wheat extract information. Today's post
(P.Gravel) mentions the Ireks--I assume he meant 6.6 pounds, not 3.3.
Everything I've heard about it suggests that it won't be especially
light coloured. Alexander's, however, does have a wheat extract and the
local homebrew shop does, it turns out, carry it. When I called, he said
he must have spaced out to have forgotten about it. His quick read of
the label while talking to me on the phone suggests that it is 100%
wheat, but even if it's the 60-40, the colour is what is important to me
right now. When I asked about the Ironmaster 100%, he said it doesn't
show up in any of his suppliers' catalogues. The word I got on that was
from Montreal, so perhaps Canadian distributors do and more southerly
distributors don't carry it.
2) "Dodger" asks about alcohol content for his huge beer.(If it's any
good, enter it in our "Big and Huge" competition next May.) No, it's not
only a matter of subtracting specific gravities. Depending on what you
read, you need to add 5 or 7 percent to get alcohol by weight. Alcohol
by volume, the more realistic measure IMHO, is 25% more than alcohol by
weight. Therefore (OG-FG)*1.05 (or 1.07) for alc by wt, multiply that by
1.25 for alc by vol. Shift the decimal point as needed depending on
whether you drop the decimal on the gravities. The .129 figure you were
given is a little less than that, but it's in the ballpark. It's
possible that the numbers I learned were only approximations. The
calculation difference is pretty trivial, especially given the
probability of slight measurement error in recording the gravities
anyway.
4) Yes, I, too, noticed the errors in the ZYMURGY special issue upon
only a brief skim. I paid a little more attention to the specific
article mentioned because it was written by a founding member of our
club (whom I have not met because he does not live in Madison) and
mentioned another club member (still in the area). Naturally, the
article caught my eye. (Others in the club noticed it also because it
came up when I brought our club copy to this week's meeting.) I'm going
to assume editing/production problems in Colorado. It won't be the first
time it happened. Frankly, I'm less concerned about that kind of error
because it's so obvious than I would be about errors that might not be
readily noticed by the average brewer. There's a lot of ZYMURGY-bashing
in this forum, but I have to give them credit for this issue, errors and
all. I don't want every issue to have such an emphasis on recipes, but
this issue did have, at first glance at least, a certain
"freshness"--especially compared with recent issues that were dreadfully
"thin" in content. Congratulations on a decent issue!
3) Almost forgot this one.... Today's digest also mentions BJCP
experience points and an extra fee for BJCP members who are not AHA
members to maintain experience records?!?!?!? The $2 might not be a big
deal, but I thought that BJCP exam fees are as high as they are because
they are needed to cover the administrative costs of the program.
Sanctioning fees are also said to go toward administrative costs of
recording experience, et cetera. It says so right on the sanctioning
forms, if I recall correctly. If there's an extra fee for those lacking
current paid AHA memberships, it may explain why we have a judge who
thought he had the points for national is listed as certified--it might
be that his points stopped being recorded once he stopped renewing his
ZYMURGY subscription. Do not misunderstand me--I do not _know_ this to
be the case. I don't even know that what I read in HBD about the extra
fee was accurate. I am simply saying that one of our judges believed
himself to have reached "national" rank according to the BJCP criteria,
but he was listed as "certified" on a judge list I received a couple of
competitions ago. I just wonder whether what was reported in the digest
might explain it and if other judges have had similar experiences. Also,
will a retake score lower than the original exam drop someone's rank, or
is the higher score kept? _I_ haven't had any problems with the AHA or
the BJCP; I do, however, want to know what to make of all that I read
about other folks' experiences with them.
Sorry to end this post on such a "down" note,
Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 9:28:33 MDT
From: npyle@hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Water Heater Conversion
Carl Zwanzig writes:
>Charlie Papazian mentions in a couple of his books that a resourceful
>Home Brewer could convert a gas hot water heater into a propane burner
>for use in brewing. It so happens that I have an unused gas hot water
>heater, and I was wondering if anyone would know how to go about
>converting it. Many thanks...
I didn't know Charlie had mentioned it, I thought it was my own idea! Well,
its really quite simple. First of all you need to make sure any conversion
is needed at all. If the water heater is made for propane, you are done!
If it is made for natural gas you'll have to convert it. Propane has more
BTUs, i.e. potential energy than natural gas. It needs more air per volume
of gas, or conversely, less gas per given amount of air. Since you can't
easily give the burner more air, you should give it less gas. This is done
by changing the jet in the burner to the appropriate smaller size. A jet is
simply a fitting with a hole in it. The size of the hole regulates how much
gas flows through at a given pressure.
You need to remove the burner and locate the jet, usually at the bottom of
the burner element. Unscrew it and take it to a local business that fills
propane bottles. Tell them you want to rejet your water heater for propane.
They'll match up the jet size on a chart and sell you the appropriate one for
propane (that's what mine did). It cost all of about 3 bucks or something.
Install it and fire it up, literally! I haven't used an entire water heater,
tank and all, but I have used the guts from old ones to heat kegs and such.
It works great and is the ultimate in cheap burners. Of course, I had to
construct a proper stand, etc. in each case, but it gives me the advantage of
being able to doctor the water since I have the top open. I don't think you
could safely cut the top off a water heater; they are usually glass-lined
steel tanks.
Oh, a nice needle-valve on the gas to regulate the flame is an added bonus.
Good luck,
Norm npyle@hp7013.ecae.stortek.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 08:33:22 PDT
From: kens@lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Liberty Ale recipe request
Hi Fellow Brewers,
I'm looking to create a Liberty Ale clone recipe. I have the Cat's
Meow recipe but, in general, I try to look at 3 or 4 different
recipes before formulating my own. I am also interested in finding
out some of the Anchor specifics. In particular: What 2 row malt
does Anchor use? What ale yeast is used in Liberty Ale? Which
hops are used and what is the schedule? Please save bandwidth
and respond to kens@lan.nsc.com. Thanks in advance.
Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 10:35:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: VIALEGGIO@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Star anise, anyone?
State University of New York at Stony Brook
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5475
Victor Ialeggio
Music
516 632-7239
06-Oct-1994 10:31am EDT
FROM: VIALEGGIO
TO: Remote Addressee ( _homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com )
Subject: Star anise, anyone?
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has
recently brewed a Belgian with addition of
star anise/orange peel--amounts,boil/steep
time, reduction of a hops (if indicated),
etc...e-mail is fine. Thanks
vialeggio@ccmail.sunysb.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:50:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: gbaldw@zaphod.usin.com (Gordon Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Overpitching
> From: David Draper <David.Draper@mq.edu.au>
> Subject: Is it possible to OVERpitch???
>
> Dear Friends, last night at the club tasting, one of our most experienced
> and knowledgeable members related his opinion that it is possible for
> homebrewers to introduce off flavors (in particular, diacetyl and/or DMS?)
> into their *ales* (not lagers, now) by pitching *too much* yeast. My
> knee-jerk reaction was "you can't pitch too much", having seen many many
> posts here to the effect that one of the biggest hurdles for homebrewers
> to overcome is pitching *enough* yeast. My cohort cited as an example of
> overpitching using the entire yeast slurry from a secondary to repitch
> into a second batch (of the same size as the first).
I have experienced this. I have siphoned the wort of one beer onto the
sludge of another. When I have done this I get explosive fermentation on
the order of complete fermentation in less than 48 hours. The beers have
always come out with fairly strong "yeast bite". This mellows after a
few weeks in the keg and the beers have always been very good. I have
also taken about 1/2 of the slurry and pitched that. I have not had the
yeast bite when I do this. I usually end up with about 1 gallon of
slurry/break/hop bits in the bottom of the primary. There is a couple of
orders of magnitude of difference between 1 gallon of slurry and the
contents of a Wyeast yeast package. Even with a starter I am usually
short of 1 quart of slurry at pitching time. I find there is a "sweet
spot" at somewhere between 1 quart and 1/2 gallon of slurry that give a
quick and smooth fermentation. The beer clears better and there are no
off tastes. This seems to change with the different strains of yeast and
fermentation temperature. My usual yeast is Wyeast 1007.
- --
Gordon Baldwin
gbaldw@usin.com
Olympia Washington
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 12:24:00 PDT
From: "Hutchinson, Sharon - Cust. Sup" <SHUTCHIN@plaza.kde.state.ky.us>
Subject: Don't remove
I am sure my mail has bounced this week. Our Internet connection has been
down. Please do not remove my name from the mailing list.
Thank you
Sharon
Hutchinson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 12:31:56 EDT
From: fastarke@rickstr.mawes.ingr.com (Rick Starke)
Subject: Re: Trippel vs Tripel
OK, I'm sorry, I referred to SA Triple, vs real "trippel" as a marketing
strategy. Thanks to Tom McGuinness (sp?) aka Big Brother, for informing
this humble newbie of the fact that it is "tripel" oops. I think I'll
relax and have a homebrew.
- --
Rick Starke
New England Customer Service
Branch Support Analyst
mailpath: fastarke@rickstr.mawes.ingr.com
Phone: (508)836-1285
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:29:17 -0700
From: barry@odf.UCSD.EDU (Barry Nisly)
Subject: Can you rack too early? / Pale Malt Mash question
I brewed my first all-grain two weeks ago. I even made a starter for my
yeast this time (Wyeast 1338). It fermented in the primary for 5 days.
When I racked it, there were yeast(?) chunkies floating on top and stuck to
the bottom. I'm pretty sure this was after the krausen. While in the
secondary, it took a day or two for the yeasties to get started again.
I thought I had racked too early. When I racked my previous extract batches,
they seemed to take off immediately. I worried a little. Then it went into a
"normal" secondary fermentation. End worrying.
Does this just reinforce the previous discussion that 1338 is a mixed strain
and is slow to finish? Or is there such a thing as racking too early?
In other news: Andrew Patti followed net protocol by summarizing his
responses to his "why mashout?" question (Cheers, Andy). He said that not doing
a mash-out could lead to over-converting and a "thin" beer. I followed
Miller for mash instructions (2 hrs. @ 152F). Papazian suggests a step-mash
(20 min @150F & 20 min @158F). The time difference between the two is
substantial. Do Miller's directions lead to over-converting?
FWIW, I used 9# of Briess pale malt.
Patiently planning all-grain batch #2,
Barry Nisly
bnisly@ucsd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:47:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Weix <weix@netcom.com>
Subject: Dry Yeast--Some words
Hi all, This is your yeast faq editor calling specifically for information
on the dry yeasts. Several people continue to use these yeasts, and I
would like their opinions on the best and the worst.
My opinion: a nice dry yeast with a clean pleasant taste is the Red Star
Ale yeast. I have used it in many brown ales and a nice stout.
I do prefer the liquid yeasts, and I'm currently making a nice red ale
with Wyeast 1968 which has gotten pretty good press. Still,I usually have
some dry yeast around just in case a starter bombs out or I feel lazy.
Patrick
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Tom Waits
/------------------------------------------------------------\
| Patrick Weix weix@netcom.com |
| UT Southwestern Medical Center weix@utsw.swmed.edu |
| 5323 Harry Hines Blvd tel: (214) 648-5050 |
| Dallas, TX 75235 fax: (214) 648-5453 |
\------------------------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:27:50 -0400
From: dmdesroches@elwood.wpi.edu (David Desroches)
Subject: Brewing with Maple sap
I have been reading the various posts on using maple syrup with interest
and was wondering whether anyone has brewed using maple sap instead of
water? Papazian mentions it briefly in the same area as using maple
syrup.
My wife's cousin makes his own syrup and I could probably get 5-6 gallons
from him (he appreciates good beer and I'm sure I could bribe him
sufficiently).
I am new to homebrewing (bottled my first batch last Sunday) and hope to
have enough experience by the March time frame to be able to handle any
complexities that this type of recipe may entail (then again it could be
the same as what I am currently doing).
************************************************************************
* David M. Desroches * For our struggle is not with flesh and *
* dmdesroches@jake.wpi.edu * blood but with the principalities, with *
* Worcester Polytechnic Int. * the powers, with the rulers of this *
* (508) 831-5487 * present darkness, with the evil spirits *
* * in the heavens. Eph 6-12 *
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 7 Oct 1994 11:37:38 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Metal Plating Brew Kettles
Sturdy wrote:
Can I use a battery and a chemical bath to plate copper or aluminum onto the
bottom of my stainless steel brewing kettle.
The short answer is "No". The short explanation is the process needs to be
done in a lab with the appropriate safety equipment. For this type of plating
to really stick and be thick enough to do any good, it takes a high electrical
current and a cyanide bath. Other chemical baths will work, just not as well.
Still, metal plating is just not practical for the do-it-yourselfer.
John Palmer
MDA-SSD M&P palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1547, 10/08/94
*************************************
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