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HOMEBREW Digest #1524
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/09/12 00:46:25
HOMEBREW Digest #1524 Mon 12 September 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
"Nutty Ale" ("Jim Robinson")
Hop Debate- How Dry I Am/ LEAF hops,blowoff / Peat and Smoking (COYOTE)
lazy brewers/request for homebrew clubs and shops (MHANSEN)
drying hops (Alan P Van Dyke)
Errors in Zymurgy? (Kelly Jones)
Re. Worthless posts (Chris Cooper)
worthless posts from lazy brewers (WKODAMA)
Blackberry Weizenbock Recipe/Coffee Porter Recipe/ Pumpkin Ale Question (Timothy Staiano)
Responses to SG question (Bill Sutton)
re: insulating brewpots and electric stoves (Leo Vitt)
drying hops (Andrew J Donohue)
Re- AutoSparger(TM) ("Charles Webster")
Auto Sparger... (Jack Schmidling)
Autosparger Revisited (John Dodson)
Immersion Chiller; Spent Grains (DATADUMP)
Help with carbonation and head retention (EKTSR)
Re: Holiday Beers ("Joseph E. Santos")
BREW (Pohlman Bryan CDT)
Rice, er, things (Pierre Jelenc)
(Eric Hall)
Silly Posts, Steve Turner (Guenther Trageser)
Dealing with high ambient temperatures (Lenny Garfinkel)
Want to Cry.... (W. Mark Witherspoon)
looking for cider advice ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
"Worthless posts...." ("geo")
re: yeast popsicles/fruit/frozen wort ("geo")
Re: Lazy posts (Spencer.W.Thomas)
re:Delphunk (que?) ("geo")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 11:34:48 PST
From: "Jim Robinson" <Jim_Robinson@ccmailsmtp.ast.com>
Subject: "Nutty Ale"
Yes Bruce Stevens, so as not to be confused with a "worthless
post from a lazy brewer" I checked TCJOHB and asked all my
brewing buddies, so having gone through the prerequisite fire
drill I have a question for the collective HBD knowledge. I just
kegged a Belgian style ale and had a little taste. I was
surprised to find that the beer tasted, well, uh... kinda
"nutty?". It had a mild sherry type of taste. Being a rather
strong ale, it also had an alcohol nose. I didn't find the
flavor to be unpleasant, although it really doesn't taste like
beer. For all you beer judge/sleuth types here is the grain
bill:
For 5 gallons.
10 lbs Munton & Fison English pale malt
2 lbs Munton & Fison German Munich
1/2 lbs M & F carapils
1/2 lbs M & F crystal
I used Wyeast London Ale yeast. Mashed 90 minutes at 152
degrees. Sparged at 170 degrees.
I know that somebody will suggest that the TASTER is probably
nutty, not the beer, but I really would like to figure this out.
TIA
Jim Robinson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 12:45:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Hop Debate- How Dry I Am/ LEAF hops,blowoff / Peat and Smoking
Mark stevens@stsci.edu talked about,
The hop debate. or...How to cure the curing problem!
>In HBD 1519, John (the Coyote) Wyllie said this was not the best
idea because the three things that damage hops are oxygen, light,
and heat.
>I hope this didn't settle the issue for folks, because I don't think
John is 100% correct, and Richard's idea seems to have a lot of
merit.
* What, you question the words of the Oracle! Oh wait, that's not me!
Honestly, I hope noone ever takes what I say as law! I get all my info
from ACME catalogs, and they are riddled with editing errors!
>In Mark Garetz's book ... spread on screens... heat ... 140 degrees F
...water content drops... <from> 80% to about 8%.
...light bulb in a vented box ... close to that temperature range.
...airflow...to carry away the moisture and John's concern about oxygen
is not right for the drying phase. The concern about light also seems wrong.
We worry about ultraviolet light (FLUORESCENT bulbs) damaging
iso-alpha-compounds in a finished beer, but I'm not sure it's much
of a concern in the drying phase---especially given that Richard is talking
about an INCANDESCENT bulb, which does not produce light of
the same spectra as a fluorescent bulb. Similarly, given that
commercial practice is to dry at 140 degrees, and that heat
is known to promote drying, a slight heat during the drying
stage seems completely appropriate.
*Ok. Concerns noted. Problems with my theories, noted.
Be aware, light IS a problem. An incandescent bulb may not have the SAME
spectrum as a flourescent, or sunshine, there there is some overlap
(don't have a physics text handy, and if I go to the basment to get it
I'll start playing with my fermenting beers!) Light WILL damage hops.
If you don't believe me, take some out of your freezer, and sit them under
anykind of light for a week, or a few months. Result? Brown hops. not good.
Oxygen will oxidize lupulin glands. They turn from a nice bright yellow
to a dingy orange. The smell changes from fresh bitter essence to bad cheese.
I admit, I don't know how quickly that can happen during drying, but my
thrust is to minimize the opportunity. Get 'em dried, get em frozen.
Brew with them, be happy and hoppy all at the same time! Drying is necessary
for storage, so it's the lesser of two evils. BUT that's why I was trying
to find out if it is in anyway NECESSARY, or can one brew directly with
fresh picked, green, water filled hop cones!? Still no answer to convince me.
(FWIW: My beer fridge had a light bulb which did not go off when the door
closed (in case anyone ever wondered!) and I had a beer go skunky from it.)
I haven't seen what M.Garetz has to say about it, but I'm glad someone has
and is willing to share it with us. Beach and other sources also state
that hops are heated to dry them. BUT...they are heated with warm air
moving past the hops, not radiant heat from light bulbs. NOW...if you
were to construct a dryer with a heating area, and push that warm air
onto the hops w/o the light itself hitting the hops...I'd be on your side!
Another option is a hair dryer, or small portable heater. Some simple and
cheap heaters have thermostats built in which switch them on and off.
That is a good thing! Beach describes an elaborate dryer made from an old
stylist shop's hair dryer (the kind Lucy sits under and gossips w/the ladies)
It depends on where you are. Our desert climate here in Utah makes for quick
drying in two days just sitting on a screen in the dark of my garage or shed.
Granted, it creeps up to the nineties in there, and we have VERY low humidity.
Take home lesson: Minimize the factors which will reduce the essentail
essences of hops qualities. Dry gently, quickly, and brew often!
***
Curt <css2@oas.psu.edu> sed something about his airlock/blowoff
...attach tube onto airlock...as a blowoff...
* It's one of my regulars. I do have a 1" blowoff also. But use both.
"I would not recommend this idea if you use leaf hops; "
-------------
Aaaargh! There it is again! You don't use the LEAVES from hops, but the
flowers, cones, or as terminology that is acceptable WHOLE hops. Not leaf.
Flake is also an semi-acceptable term, but indicates rough handling!
Pellets can much things up even more, at least as much! Usually WHOLE hops
or pressed (not pelletized) are, or easily can be, left behind in the kettle.
Ye- 'ol copper (or stainless) scrubbie does the trick just fine!
Fruits are another potential disaster area for airlocks/blowoff.
Just ask the peach users of recent discovery! Be warned- even adding fruit to
a secondary that has pretty well subsided can instigate a renewed SPLURGE of
activity (technical term, look it up in a dictionary!).
Advice? Nah, that's not what the digest it for. BS-ing stroking egos, THAT's
what the digest is for!
But here's some free advice ANYWAY- leave a lot of headspace if you are
adding fruit, and plan on it floating to the top for quite a while.
I've even gone from a glass carboy to a bucket secondary (yes- PLASTIC!)
to add fruit. Makes it easier to get into the fermenter, easiery to get out,
and less likely to OVERGLOODGE an airlock.
***
Peat Wood: Maybe I just had a brain fart. I thought I read that somewhere
and hung onto it. Perhaps it was the M.Jackson's beerhunter segment on
Smoked Beers, coming from wood fires being used to dry malt, and smoke them
all at once. I too checked my dictionary, and also found no refernce to
peat wood. Maybe it was Teak. So call me an idiot! People have been known to!
I also looked up Peck, cuz it wa there and caught my eye:
Peck1 (pek) n. Dry Measure = 8 quarts or one-quarter of a bushel. A lot,
a peck of trouble.
Peck2 v. 1. to strike or nip or pick up with the beak. 2. to make (a hole)
with the beak. 3. <my favorite> to kiss lighlty and hastily. PECK n. 1 a
stroke or nip made with the beak. 2. a light hasty kiss.
Peck'er <I'll skip that!>
BUT: I will stand by my guns that a charcoal fire is better for smoking
fish or grains than a propane BBQ. That's not to say you CAN'T do it with
propane, or that the results would be crap, but just that it's BETTER with
the real thing! And I ain't talkin' Coca Cola Jack!
\-/-\ John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P@cc.usu.edu \-/-\
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 13:52:04 -0600
From: MHANSEN@ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject: lazy brewers/request for homebrew clubs and shops
Here comes flame # 23,912:
Let me paraphrase Bruce P. Stevens: "Bitch, moan, bitch, moan...lazy
worthless newbies...bitch,moan. I need some judges." That's awfully
ballsy to make a statement like that and then ask the HBD for help. If I
was in Maine in November and I was a certified judge (which I hope to
be some day), I certainly would not be a judge for your competition.
Moreover I hope people boycott your competition as a show for how
unpopular that statement was. I for one am grateful for all the help I
received from the HBD when I started this hobby a year ago. Don't
computers made for gods have a page down key?
I recently moved to the Iowa City/Cedar Rapids, Iowa area and am
looking for homebrew shops and homebrew clubs around here. Can
someone point me in the right direction. Private E-mail is fine as I wouldn't
want to clutter up Bruce's E-mail with worthless drivel.
TIA and brew on my friends,
Mike (MHANSEN@CTDMC.PMEH.UIOWA.EDU)
------------------------------
Date: Friday, 9 September 94 14:00:20 CST
From: Alan P Van Dyke <llapv@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
Subject: drying hops
Howdy, all,
Now, I'll admit right up front that I've never dried a hop in my life (even
though I am lookin' forward to it about a year from now), but why is everyone
worried about oxygen, heat, & light exposure to the hops during drying when the
little fellas have been sitting outside in the full sun all summer long?
Happy brewing,
Alan of Austin (lazy but not worthless)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 13:02:46 -0600
From: k-jones@ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones)
Subject: Errors in Zymurgy?
Did someone bring up the subject of errors in Zymurgy?
I was excited when I read in the latest issue that a new brewery, the
Bandon Brewing Company, would be opening up right here in Salt Lake City,
Utah. Unfortunately, no one around here had ever heard of it. Well, after
a couple long distance phone calls to Zymurgy and the AOB, I was finally
able to learn that the Bandon Brewing Company would not be opening in Salt
Lake City, but instead had chosen Bandon, Oregon (or was it Washington?) as
the site for their new brewery. Go figure.
Kelly
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 15:50:14 EDT
From: ccooper@a2607cc.msr.hp.com (Chris Cooper)
Subject: Re. Worthless posts
Consider this yet another Flame Mr. BREWS Prez !
As a relative newbie homebrewer thanks to all how have answered the
simple and the complex questions posted here, the information has
helped make this a great hobby for myself and many others !
ccooper@a2607cc.msr.hp.com
IBMMAIL (99880)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 15:58:02 -0400
From: WKODAMA@aba.com
Subject: worthless posts from lazy brewers
Having read MALT PREZ's (brews@delphi.com) worthwhile post, I
knew he was in for flames. So I thought I would take a look
through some back issues of HBD to see if he had in fact been
blessing the digest with his own worthwhile posts (since so many
other brewers who take the time to post are "lazy"), and
therefore might be undeserving of the heat. I mean, let's take a
deep breath and pause before we flame, right?
I looked the most recent 320 or so digests. MALT PREZ posted
*once* (good thing he's not lazy). I've taken the liberty to
recapture some of the more worthwhile highlights:
> THE EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD WITH THEM IS VERY GOOD AND THE
> LADIES LOVE THE LIGHT REFRESHING FLAVOR AND AROMA,
(snip)
> LOCK IT UP OR YOUR FEMALE FRIENDS WILL SCARF IT ALL ON YOU.
(snip)
> BUT THE RESPONSE OF THE BABES IS THE REAL PRIZE.
Oooooh, Love God! At least in his latest worthwhile post he got
off his lazy butt and took the caps lock off.
Wesman
9-Sep-94 15:51
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 16:08:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Timothy Staiano <tstaiano@ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Subject: Blackberry Weizenbock Recipe/Coffee Porter Recipe/ Pumpkin Ale Question
Greetings and salutations to all! I would first like to thank all who
responded to my post in #1405 re:Cranberry Wheat recipe. Well I guess I
was a little out of season as I couldn't find any cranberries (not even
frozen). Insteat I decided upon blackberries, frozen blackberries from
my local Grand Union. The recipe I came up with (thanks to SUDS 3.0 -no
affiliation, no flames please!) is as follows:
0.28# 90L Crystal 3# Light DME
6.6# can Ireks 100% Wheat syrup 1oz 4.1% Hallertauer (Boil)
0.5oz 3.8% Mt. Hood (Finish) 5# Frozen Blackberries
Wyeast 3068 Wheinstephen Wheat w/1.020 starter
Steeped grains to 190degF, added extracts and boiled a la Papazian. Added
Mt. Hood and 36oz blackberries last 5min. Cooled and brought up to total
volume of 5.25 gallons. Saved 32oz wort (and 10ml yeast slurry) for
krausen. Pitched @ 76degF. Primary fermentation: 5 days @ 68-70degF.
Racked to secondary and added 3lb frozen blackberries, 7 days @
68-70degF. 16 days @ 56-60degF. O.G.: 1.068 F.G.: 1.017
It's been in the bottle for about 5 months now and IMOH it's fantastic.
At first the sourness of the berries was too prominent but it has
mellowed nicely.
Next of my wacky recipies is something I like to call Kenyan Koffee
Porter. It is a robust porter with 1/2lb Kenyan coffee beans steeped
until almost boil.
1# Black Patent 3.3# John Bull Unhopped Dk. LME
3# Lt. DME 0.75oz 4.2% Tettnanger (finish)
0.5oz 12.4% Chinook (boil) 1/2# Kenyan coffee beans
Wyeast ESB liquid w/1.040 starter (IMHO it's better than 1.020)
Crushed beans and black patent. Removed black patent @ 180degF and
coffee @ 200degF. Proceed through with rest. Pitched @ 68degF. Primary
for 4 days @ 70degF. Racked to secondary and its been a week so far with
signs of minimal (1 bubble/3-5min) fermentation.
It tasted pretty good at racking time, maybe 1/4lb too much black patent
but hey, it seem darn drinkable.
Now that I've provided some info, I'd like to receive some. I want to
brew a pumpkin ale to help celebrate the fall harvest season. Anyone
have any all extract, extract/speciality recipies they would like to
share. Private e-mail sounds good to me. TIA
Have a hoppy!
Tim Staiano (tstaiano@ramapo.ultrix.edu)
p.s. I'm going to the Sugarbush Brewers Festival next weekend, will post
about it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 16:20:50 EDT
From: Bill Sutton <wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>
Subject: Responses to SG question
The general consensus was that losing a half gallon would easily drop the
SG as experienced. For your enlightenment, I will post a couple of the
calculations.
Another common comment was a reminder to be sure I took the sample from a
well-mixed wort, not just the lighter stuff at the top. I have taken the
liberty of editing this out, as it was present in nearly all responses.
FWIW, I mixed my wort so well that I had 2 inches of hops in the bottom of
the sample jar ...
Thanks for all your help!
********************************************************************
Contributed S.G. from ingredients = X (unknown).
Measured S.G. of 5 gallons (3 gallons water, 2 gallons wort) = 1.044.
Since loss was 20% (25% of result), then you would get X= 1 + (44*1.25)/1000
= 1.055
So, I guess maybe your original guess of 1.058 isn't too bad.
Also, depending on how you crushed your crystal and how it was steeped, you
might get less than optimum yield from it. Hard to say.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
******************************************************************
In HBD1517 you asked about SG formulas:
I've used the formula (I've posted this to HBD before)
[#DME + 0.8#LME + 0.7#GRAINS]*0.042
O.G. = 1.000 + ----------------------------------
gallons
where # means pounds. This formula uses 1.042 for a pound of
DME (dry malt extract) in a gallon of water, about 1.034 for
LME (liquid malt extract), and about 1.029 for speciality
grains.
I'm not sure where I've seen the 1.042 figure (probably Charlie
P.'s book) and maybe a Zymurgy issue. The 0.8 factor represents
an approximate average, and you'll find a variation probably
between 0.75 and 0.85 depending on the manufacturer of the LME.
The 0.7 factor is dependent on the grains, their crush, and your
sparging (straining) technique.
On the other hand, I've compared the above formula to measured
O.G. values for over a dozen extract batches and have had an
average error of about 1 point (0.1%), and a maximum of 4
points, on O.G.'s ranging from 1.026 to 1.057.
According to the formula above, you should have gotten
1.000 + (0.8*6.9 + 0.7*0.5)*0.042/5 = 1.049.
My conjecture is that the stuff that you didn't siphon (you
mentioned you lost some stuff due to siphon problems) caused
the discrepancy. For example if you left one quart of your
concentrated wort in the kettle your expected gravity after
topping off to 5 gallons would be only
1.000 + 2.0*.049/2.25 = 1.044
which is close to your measurement.
Here the 2.0 is the amount of concentrated wort that you siphoned
and the 2.25 is the assumed total amount of concentrated wort.
Bill Szymczak
bszymcz@ulysses.nswc.navy.mil
********************************************************************
Rsponding to your query in the HBD, when you lost 0.5 gallons of liquid
you also lost one-fifth ( 0.5/2.5 ) of your fermentables. If you were to
figure on 55 points in five gallons, then (1/5)*55 or 11 points were left
in the boiling vessel. That makes 55-11=44 or an OG of 1.044. This points
up one of the rarly mentioned shortcomings of doing partial boils, if you
lose fluid there is a proporionatly greater fermentable loss. On the other
hand you probably didn't have three pots boiling away on you stove Monday
afternoon either:-)
Steve Waite
Microwave Instruments Division
Hewlett-Packard
*****************************************************************
Bill Sutton So many songs,
wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com So little beer.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 15:18:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Leo Vitt <vitt@rchland.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: re: insulating brewpots and electric stoves
Todd Swanson <BCHM014@UNLVM.UNL.EDU> said
>I have done 6.5 gallon boils
>on my electric stove using a 33qt enamel on steel brewpot. The pot sits on
>2 burners and I use both of them. It takes about 30 min. to get the
boil going
>and I have to keep the pot covered or mostly covered.
I have also used two burners on my electric stove. However, I accomplish this
by a different means. I use two smaller stainless kettles. One is 20
quarts and the
second is 15.5 quarts.
I arrived at this because I was using the 20 quart kettle for
partial boils (boil all the extract with part of the water) for partial
mashes. Then I
was able to get the second kettle much cheaper than investing in a 40
quart stainless
kettle when I wanted to start all grain brewing.
I see my only disadvantage is I need to chill the two kettles
seperately. I chill one,
then the other with a emersion chiller.
My other solution is an outdoor burner with a 15.5 gal keg as a kettle,
allowing 10 gal
batches. The season will have a great deal to do with which approach I
decide to
use.
- Leo (vitt@rchland.ibm.com)
Leo Vitt,416741 (vitt@rchland)
department 47x
IBM Rochester, Minnesota
(507)253-6903
t/l 553-6903
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 16:56:09 EDT
From: andy2@hogpa.ho.att.com (Andrew J Donohue)
Subject: drying hops
I don't claim to be an expert but this is my second harvest and
this method has worked well. I simply take a few window screens
and prop them up on boxes in the attic. I then spread the hops
1 (one) cone thick on the screens. My attic here in NJ is
around 105F on a sunny day in Sept. I'm not very anal (my wife
thinks I am) so when the hops seem dry I pack them in freezer
bags and freeze them. Months later they are fresher than locally
purchased hops (my HB supply store doesn't store their hops well).
Andy
andy2@hogpe.ho.att.com
PS Maybe if we ignore certain wining a##holes they will go away!
------------------------------
Date: 9 Sep 1994 08:29:03 -0800
From: "Charles Webster" <Charles_Webster@macmail.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re- AutoSparger(TM)
Subject: Time:8:28 AM
OFFICE MEMO Re: AutoSparger(TM) Date:9/9/94
A couple of HBDs ago someone asked about Bob Jones' AutoSparger(TM). Here is
the text of his original post (with his permission)
> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:01:26 +0900 From: bjones@novax.llnl.gov (Bob
> Jones) Subject: Autosparge details
>
> I have had several requests for more detailed info on the autosparge
> gadget I described in a recent post. Here is another amusing ascii
> graphic.... the information superhighway needs some improvements!
>
>
>
> Sparge
> H2O ---------
> input ------ |
> | |
> | |
> | | Side view Top view
> | |
> | |
> | |
> | | ..[ ]..
> | | . | .
> | |___ . | .
> [ ]-----------(float) . | . ring
> ----- . | . with
> float . | . holes
> valve . ( ) .
> . .
> .......
>
> I use a float valve from Graingers, part number 2X524, $13.70. It
> doesn't come with a float. I got a SS float surplus at a local junk
> store. The entire assembly is adjustable in heigth, which allows me to
> place the ring right down about an inch above the mash bed. I consructed
> it all out of 1/2 rigid copper and 1/2" flex copper for the ring.
>
> Better brewing through hi-tech,
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Bob Jones bjones@novax.llnl.gov
<Chas>
CLWebster@lbl.gov
We will drink no beer before it's time. (And I think it's time now.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 18:51 CDT
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Auto Sparger...
>From: john.dodson@cantina.com (John Dodson)
>Subject: Automatic Sparger Summary
>Several weeks ago I posted a query looking for information on an
'automatic' sparge ring (described as a copper ring with holes drilled
in the bottom and a float valve mounted in the middle, used for
'automatically' controlling sparge water flow to a grain bed).
>I had quite a few requests on forwarding any information I might obtain
as a result of the post. I am sorry to inform all that were interested,
that I did not recieve any information... either on a design or where
one might buy such a device. :-( (Could be a market for such a
device?.. how about it Jack? ... EasyAutomaticSpargeRing(tm)?)
...
I didn't respond because of the necessarily obvious commercial nature of
whatever response I could make.
The EASYSPARGER (tm) does exist but as usual, I have taken the shortest and
simplest route to effect the result.
First of all, the ring with holes in it is totally unnecessary. Well, let's
say it is about as unnecessary as whirly gig sparger made by that other
supplier. As long as one maintains the liquid above the level of the grain,
it makes not the slightest difference how or where the water enters. The end
of a hose, dribbling into the tun is more than adequate.
Secondly, I have little inclination to heat up vast quantities of sparge
water only to use it at the rate of a controlled leak. So my approach is to
continuously heat a small quantity of water only when and as needed. This
being a stove top device, connected to the water tap, the flow rate is really
determined by the rate at which a kitchen stove can heat water. The float
valve is really not required because all one needs to do is adjust the
out-flow from the mash tun to the inflow from the EASYSPARGER.
To de-commercial this, you can make your own easy sparger by installing two
barb fittings on a 6 qt kettle. One goes to a hose fitted with a fawcet
adapter and the other goes to a short length of high temp hose to dribble
over the mash tun. The input from the tap should be above the output level.
Send email for a flyer on the upper-case version.
js
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 09:12:00 -0700
From: john.dodson@cantina.com (John Dodson)
Subject: Autosparger Revisited
Thanks to all who sent 'Automatic Sparger' replies! It has restored my
faith in electronic media! <g>
For those that were interested, here is a repost of Bob Jones sparger,
a.k.a. 'Uncle Bob's Automatic Sparger':
- ------------
Posting 12: Extracted from file: 1452 (HBD number)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:01:26 +0900
From: bjones@novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Autosparge details
I have had several requests for more detailed info on the autosparge gadget
I described in a recent post. Here is another amusing ascii graphic.... the
information superhighway needs some improvements!
Sparge
H2O ---------
input ------ |
| |
| |
| | Side view Top view
| |
| |
| |
| | ..[ ]..
| | . | .
| |___ . | .
[ ]-----------(float) . | . ring
----- . | . with
float . | . holes
valve . ( ) .
. .
.......
I use a float valve from Graingers, part number 2X524, $13.70. It doesn't
come with a float. I got a SS float surplus at a local junk store. The
entire assembly is adjustable in heigth, which allows me to place the ring
right down about an inch above the mash bed. I consructed it all out of 1/2
rigid copper and 1/2" flex copper for the ring.
[Also, Jeremy Bergsman astutely points out that the ring portion is
really unnecessary (no offense Uncle Bob!<g>) as water is usually an
inch above the grain bed and any flow of water that does not disturb the
grain bed will work just as well.] Thanks again for responding!
* OLX 2.1 TD * Internet: sysop@cantina.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 08:05:18 EDT
From: DATADUMP@aol.com
Subject: Immersion Chiller; Spent Grains
Okay HBDers. I have followed the threads about immersion wort chillers and
decided I had to have one. Went to Home Depot and spent $28 on a 50' roll of
3/8" OD soft refrigeration copper tubing. Bought 1' of 3/8" ID flexible
tubing, a female hose connector with a 3/8" OD nipple, and a couple of hose
clamps.
Now to coil it so it will fit my brew pot. As I ambled about the house I
came upon a lone cornelius keg. Hmmmm. I Placed the C-keg in the brew pot .
. . plenty of room for tubing also. :D I simply unrolled the tubing (the
hallway was long enough) and, laying the C-keg on the floor, began rolling
the tubing onto it. Worked great!
No kinks and an even coil to immerse in my wort. Using the nifty spring type
bending tool I formed the ends and attached my other components.
Test Time! Used water at boiling (212F) and had at it. The temp dropped to
less than 110F in less than 5 minutes!! I debated on which way to flow the
water through . . . from top to bottom OR bottom to top. I opted for top to
bottom. (Any comments on which is more efficient?)
**** ::::::grind:::::: :::::::kachunk!::::::: ::::::clank::::::
<--shifting gears
What do you do with your spent grains?? My friend and fellow brewer is a
frugal kind of guy - He used the grains to make some bread (his wife said he
looked like the Swedish Chef from the Muppets when he was doing this)!
Really turned out great. He will be writing up his recipe and it will be
available for publication later.
Anybody else have any neat ideas to recycle the grains?
Happy Brewing!!
Gordon Cain
THE-BREW BBS
Orlando, Fl.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 09:21:30 EDT
From: EKTSR@aol.com
Subject: Help with carbonation and head retention
Seems I've worked my way into a maze and need help....
What is the difference between undercarbonation and poor head retention??
My last 4-5 batchs of extract based ales have all suffered from what I am
guessing is poor head retention--pour out of bottle into clean glass, little
head formation, any that does form disappears almost immediately. But the
beer does have a slight "bubbly" feel in my mouth. First few batches I used
a dish washer to sanitize bottle (WITH RINSE AGENT IN DISHWASHER), so last
batch I sanitized bottles w/1/2 hour soak 2 tlbspoon bleach to 5 gallon, hot
water rinse. Caps sanitized same way. Last batch suffered same fate. My
questions are this:
What else might cause poor head retention?? I have heard of adding .5-1 lb
wheat malt to help. Also the freshness of the hops ??
How does one judge carbonation and head retention?? I guess my beer is
properly carbonated--last batch used 1 cup corn sugar-- but it still doesn't
seem to be enough carbonation for me....
Thanks for responses--I'll post summary
PS-FWIW, although I thought the post from that gentleman in Maine about
newbie questions was pure trash, I can now see a glimmer of truth. I would
be helped by having local, live,KNOWLEDGABLE resource to bring this problem
to...Still, didn't need his trash here. Almost didn't post because of it.
Stan White, psycokitty@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 09:42:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos@wpi.edu>
Subject: Re: Holiday Beers
Cheers,
As an amatateur brewer I use the HBD as an invaluable source of information.
Not all of it is useful to me but it does give assistance. My question is:
With Thanksgiving around the corner, I am considering brewing a cranberry
stout. Being a New Englander I have access to a source of whole fresh
cranberries. I do not however have any knowledge on how to process them
for brewing. Do they need to be crushed or pureed first? Has anybody used
them in a recipe? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for
allowing me to use this valuable bandwidth for such DRIVEL oh great wise
ones!
DR J
Food for thought:
By academic freedom I understand the right to search for truth
and to publish and teach what one holds to be true. This right implies
also a duty: one must not conceal any part of what one has recognized
to be true. It is evident that any restriction of academic freedom acts
in such a way as to hamper the dissemination of knowledge among the
people and thereby impedes national judgement and action.
-Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 10:16:51 EDT
From: x85599i3@usma14.USMA.EDU (Pohlman Bryan CDT)
Subject: BREW
What's up.
I'm a cadet at West Point and was interested in some brewing information and
comversation. Please write back with background info.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 11:07:28 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1@columbia.edu>
Subject: Rice, er, things
In HBD #1523, Diane Palme says:
> First of all, no, I didn't mean to say "hulls" when I said "hauls". The
> package that I bought actually said "Rice Hauls" on the side. No brand
> label (except for the store) and no ingredient list. The look of the
> "hauls" (hulls, whatever) was like straw. Each piece about 1/2" long,
> and then split on the long axis. It made me think of the leaves or
> stalk of the rice plant rather than a husk of the rice kernel itself.
I was puzzled by the word as well. As far as I know, "haul" is not a real
word but, from the description, it is obvious that it was "haulm", i.e.
straw that was in that bag. Haulm is a collective word, like straw, so
should not show up in the plural. Maybe it is a dialect word, or maybe
someone at the printing company decided to change the "m" into an "s".
(For the linguistically inclined, "haulm" is the English cognate of the
French "chaume", which means "thatch".)
Pierre
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 15:26:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Hall <ehall@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject:
subsribe
------------------------------
Date: 10 Sep 94 22:49:02 EDT
From: Guenther Trageser <73672.613@compuserve.com>
Subject: Silly Posts, Steve Turner
Steve,
I am glad you had fun brewing, breaking your carboy etc. However, do you
want advice as to how to not let a carboy slip? Or is it that you are
trying to let us in on a secret that glass breaks when you let it drop? It
is my understanding that people here expect to discuss experiences and
problems they have had with their brewig and try to get some questions
answered. By the way, the best way not to break a carboy is not to drop
it. If youlove your anecdpotes, have a beer with your friends and a good
night out. Please, don't waste this precious resource.
Risking to get flamed.
Gunther Trageser.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 08:36:19 +0200 (IST)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny@zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: Dealing with high ambient temperatures
I've been lurking for the past couple of months trying to learn as much
as possible before trying my first homebrew. I would not post this
question if there were advice available from some other quarter, but I
don't know of anyone else in Israel who does homebrew.
The problem that I have is the high temperatures here. My apartment is
usually in the the 25C-30C (77F-86F) range during the months
June-September. Everything that I have read (Papazian, Reese, and the
stanford docs) indicates that temperature is very important and 65F-75F is
ideal. Papazian does not deal with this at all. Reese (Better Beer and
How to Brew It), claims that above 75F you just don't get good results.
He suggests a method of cooling the fermentor using wet towels draped over
the sides which provide evaporative cooling. I can live with this, but is
temperature of the fermentation after bottling also critical?
I know that I am not the first to deal with this question. I spent my
first 30 years in the states and remember lots of disgusting hot, humid
summers. How do you all maintail appropriate fermentation temperatures?
Or is it not all that important after all? I'd hate to have to wait for
autumn to begin brewing.
BTW, if anyone knows of a good homebrew supplier which will mail order to
Israel, I'd appreciate an address and phone number.
Thanks,
Lenny Garfinkel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 11:35:06 +0500
From: mwithers@hannibal.atl.ge.com (W. Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Want to Cry....
My hops are gone... The *$*@&% bugs have eaten every leaf off of
the vines. I tried to get rid of them, but they have chewed
everything off except for the vine itself. The vines are trying
to put out more leaves, but I am not hopeful since winter is comming
on. I don't expect to see any cones this year 8^(.
BTW the vines reached 35' in their first year of growth.
Mark Witherspoon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 11:33:52 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm@rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: looking for cider advice
As fall arrives and the apple harvest is here, I too am
interested in making some cider. I've searched the
Cats_meow and there are only a few recipes there. I have
some generic questions on which I would like some advice.
1) Does anyone boil or pasteurize the fresh cider?
If so, what temps or how long? Do you chill it with
a wort chiller if you do use heat?
2) Any chemical methods of pasteurizing the cider?
Campden tablets or similar?
3) Choice of yeasts? Ale (which varieties), champagne,wild?
4) Flavor adjuncts? (brown sugar, honey, spices)
If you have any tried and true recipes or other advice,
please share it. As fall approaches, others may wish this
information too, so consider a generalized post if it is
appropriate.
TIA
JEFF M. MICHALSKI
michalski_jm@rophys.wustl.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 19:39:28 CST
From: "geo" <WOLFF@albert.uta.edu>
Subject: "Worthless posts...."
Well, Bruce Stevens stirred up a hornets' nest alright. At the risk
of adding fuel to the fire, I have to come out and say that I
basically agree with his sentiments, and suspect that many others
might, had his message been worded a little less provocatively.
All you Protectors of the People out there, please read on before
you jump on my case.
I've subscribed to the HBD for about a month now, and it's
main function, it seems to me, is to provide a forum for informed
discussion about beer and brewing. By "informed discussion" I don't
mean that we should restrict ourselves to graduate-level
biochemistry; only an insufferable prig would take that attitude and
it's clear to me that Bruce did NOT say anything of that sort.
It's also clear to me that the HBD is not intended to provide
absolute beginners (the wortless??) with the information they need to
begin brewing. It's the nature of the beast. The HBD consists of a
random assortment of tiny bits of information about brewing. Nobody
could make any real sense of it without having some prior knowledge
and/or experience. What the beginning brewer needs is not the HBD
but a book, in which the necessary information is laid out in a
clear, logical fashion, that tells him/her how to produce a batch of
beer. If any beginners with problems are reading this, please go to
the literature (i.e. any HB book) first before posting a question on
the HBD. Papazian's New Complete Joy of Home Brewing (pub. Acme,
price $11) is probably the most accessible; I've seen it in
regular bookstores. Also, bear in mind that your question will be
answered by people who have no knowledge of exactly what your set-up
is, and who are not themselves infallible. I've read some
statements made on the HBD that are just plain wrong, although these
are usually caught by someone. But how is the beginner to know?
OK, people, I'm ready for the righteous indignation.
John Wolff
wolff@uta.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 20:54:25 CST
From: "geo" <WOLFF@albert.uta.edu>
Subject: re: yeast popsicles/fruit/frozen wort
Kirk Harralson asks if freezing fruit would sterilise it. (I'm being
helpful now, having just supported Bruce Stevens).
Freezing DOES NOT sterilise!! Any doctor will tell you that putting
ice in your drink in a third-world country is a great way to catch
typhus. Wee yeasties have their cell walls ripped by freezing (as I
guess Kirk knows, from the title of his post), but this isn't true
of many, many bacteria or other dreadful creatures. Ever watched the
mold grow inside a freezer that's been switched off and allowed to
reach room temperature without even opening the door?
Frank (ding.dong@esbbs.com) asks "Why not freeze sterile wort"? From
the above, I reckon it's a bad idea because your fridge and freezer
are about the most bacterially contaminated places in your house; the
only reason this isn't apparent is that the low temperature really
slows the buggers down. You're simply increasing the chances of
contaminating the outside of the jar, and hence of whatever
temporarily open container you pour the starter into at the next
stage. I also use the canning method, and have never had a problem
with storing the jars at room temperature; this was the whole reason
the method was originally invented for foodstuffs (if one of your jars
is internally contaminated, it's soon apparent, but wouldn't be were
they frozen). I boil up 3 gallons of ME-based lightly hopped wort at
OG 1035 - 1040; this provides enough for 36 jars, half-filled, 12 each
of half-pint, pint, and quart capacity, and then use the three sizes
in sequence to get a good volume of starter from a WYeast pouch or
bottle dregs. For me, this is easily a year's supply (especially if
the timing's right for carrying yeast from one brew to the next,
obviating the need for a starter).
Happy brewing
John Wolff
wolff@uta.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 22:40:27 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Lazy posts
Ulick writes
> rice hulls are just creating channels and preventing efficient loitering.
Usually when I want to loiter efficiently, I use cappuccino. For one
thing, it tastes better than rice hulls :-)
=Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 22:04:11 CST
From: "geo" <WOLFF@albert.uta.edu>
Subject: re:Delphunk (que?)
OK, I'm being really helpful tonight; must have something to do with
the steady depletion of my stock that's accompanying this session.
Todd McGuiness writes "I know that the temperature of the
water/liquor (??) in the lock must be close to the temp of the brew
or we will get leakage from the lock into the primary".
Wrong. You could have liquid nitrogen or boiling oil in the lock
(although either would be difficult to arrange), and as long as the
internal and external pressures are the same, there will be no
movement of liquid in the lock. 3 things commonly influence the
pressure balance:
1. CO2 production in the fermenter
2. Temperature variations. Any T change inside the fermenter
will cause a pressure differential.
3. External pressure variations, such as when a front comes through.
Todd, if you pitched your wort at 80F (I assume ambient T was
considerably less), then cooling during the lag probably was
responsible for sucking air and lock liquid in (I assume this is what
you mean when you say leaking). Wondering how it'll turn out? Taste
it and see. Any damage has probably been done by now, although some
types of bacteria also have a long lag time, i.e. the new beer is
good, but it doesn't keep well. ESB can be consumed pretty quickly
if you barrel/keg it, trust me, I'm English.
Is pitching at 80F such a good idea? I used to do this, but got fed
up with drinking phenol and esters that had a faint taste of hops.
Since recently getting a temperature controller and second fridge,
I've also realised just how exothermic primary fermentation is. My
last brew was 10F above the 68F ambient at high krausen (despite
having been pitched at about 65F), not bad for a little 3 gallon
bucket with a large surface area/volume ratio, but not good for
flavour. Admittedly this was a strong ale (OG 1085), but next time
I'll crank the fridge down to about 55F during primary fermentation
with an ale yeast (this one was the stuff labelled only "Nottingham
Ale Yeast, made in Canada". Anyone else tried monitoring ferment T
while using this yeast?).
Cheers,
John Wolff
wolff@uta.edu
"His real wife, his houri, his paramour was everywhere waiting, genie-
like, in a bottle. The hymeneal gouging-off of the bottle-top, the
kiss of the brown bitter yeasty flow, the euphoria far beyond the
release of detumescence." - Anthony Burgess
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1524, 09/12/94
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