Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1499
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/08/12 01:01:01
HOMEBREW Digest #1499 Fri 12 August 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Ulick's post (npyle)
Caution with lactose beers/citrobacter (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Counter Presure Filler For Sale (Timothy Sixberry)
Lager Malts vs. Ale Malts (PAULDORE)
using calcium chloride... (Robert F. Dougherty)
RE: Woodchuck and Pale Ale (mdemers)
breakin' the law (BRCMRC.BRMAIN.MMENDENH)
Oxygen during fermentation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Millertov cocktails (Mark Roberson)
Re: Christmas brews/ preboiling/ plastic petri dishes (Kelvin Kapteyn)
Oh geeeez! (sam adams) (Jimmy Patrick)
Gravity (JohnNewYrk)
Re: Japanese beetle repellent - homebrewed (W. Mark Witherspoon)
keg sanitation summary (Adrien Glauser)
Taylor Mod Errandum ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
Buggy Tap Water (Jim Grady)
5 liter mini-keg (Robert.Fike)
Sparging rate and George Fix (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Codes,West Virginia (PSTOKELY)
All grain equip. cost details (mlittle)
Phil's Philler (George Kavanagh O/o)
Waste Water / Dry hopping (npyle)
forfeiture laws and homebrew (Gary Meier)
Closed fermenters/rakes (Jim Busch)
Re: Dry Hopping/Keg Fermenting (Randy M. Davis)
St. Patrick's of Texas (smtplink!guym)
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 9:24:16 MDT
From: npyle@hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Ulick's post
Responding to Ulick's post about CF chillers, etc.:
>1) How much head? Ideally, I want to use no more than 2 feet, because
>safety rule number one in my brewery is that a pot of boiling wort is
>never ever moved.
I guess I don't fully understand this question. Are you asking how high your
kettle has to be for the chiller to operate properly? If so, I'm guessing
your kettle is 2 feet from the floor and your fermenter sits on the floor.
This is roughly my configuration (I use the standard pipe-in-a-hose CF
chiller) and it works fine.
>2) How long? Diameter?
My chiller is 30 feet long and has more than enough capacity to handle 5
gallon batches.
>3) Hopback or not?
Yes yes yes. There's a pretty easy design in the current Zymurgy which I'll
probably build soon. Its based on PVC pipe and end caps. The advantages of
it over the Kinney Baughman canning jar model is that you have no glass to
temperature shock and you can make it virtually as big as you like. The
hopback method beats standard finishing hops by a county mile.
>4) How long does it take?
My 30 feet of 3/8" flexible copper tubing takes close to 30 minutes to pass 5
gallons of wort. I don't slow it down for chilling, BTW, this is wide open.
>5) How close does the outlet wort temperature get to the coolin inlet
>temperature?
Haven't measured the two to compare, but I imagine I could get it virtually
the same with enough water. I set my water to a very slow flow in the summer
and a trickle in the winter to cool the wort. I'm confident I could get the
wort to very near the water temperature if I wanted to waste more cooling
water.
>6) Can it perform aduquately with summer cold water temperatures?
Perfectly adequate in all seasons, but I live in Colorado, land of cold
water. This brings me to my conclusion. The chiller could easily be 20'
instead of 30' and I'd still be able to cool very well indeed. Should
shorten the time considerably as well. I just haven't gotten around to
doing this.
>(I wonder are editors of Zymurgy drunk the whole time or what? The number
>of errors that they print in a rather thin magazine that comes out a mere 5
>times a year amazes me. And it is so nice that they spend all that money on
>postcards to tell me that I can buy CP latest book from them for $3 more than
>the cover price because they like me. I am sure any bookshop around here
>could get it for me in a couple of days and charge cover price?)
I don't think they're drunk, but certainly impaired. A friend of mine drove
to Boulder to the AHA (25 minute drive from here) and got the book at the
discount (i.e. didn't pay 40% shipping charge). I figure if I decide I want
it, I'll wait for the local HB shop to open (they've been "about to open"
since June) and get it here in town. I'm not driving 50 minutes round trip
to save a buck.
The AHA has two basic functions: produce the magazine and produce various
conferences, festivals, etc. They seem to be pretty good at organizing
festivals (at least I haven't heard too many gripes), but they need to fire
the editor of Zymurgy and get someone who can do the job. They're loaded
with laid-back Boulder-ites who don't seem to be serious enough about their
work to do a quality job. I'm all for not getting stressed out on life, but
I believe they ought to strive for excellence on the job. Anyway, I keep
hoping that BT will kick them in the butt enough to realize they ought to
start producing a better product. Sadly though, as long as circulation
keeps growing, they're not likely to change a thing.
Norm
------------------------------
Date: 10 Aug 94 18:29:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Caution with lactose beers/citrobacter
JEFF writes (quoting me):
>>You must be careful about sanitation, however, since lactose is
>>fermentable by lactic acid bacteria.
>Lactobaccilus is a gram positive rod-shaped bacteria of the
>Lactobacillaceae family. Its name is derived from its
>endpoint of fermentation, that is LACTIC ACID. Of course
>it can use lactose as a fermentation source, but it can also
>use other sugars and amino acids present in beer. A brewer
>should exercise the same care when using lactose to sweeten
>a beer as he (or she) would with any other fermentable. As
>always, careful sanitary techniques should be used to avoid
>the introduction of bacteria, yeasts, or other parasites
>that would spoil your beer.
Brian writes:
>The microbiology text* I've got says Lactobacillus contains lactase
>which splits the lactose molecule into its constituent molecules,
>glucose and galactose. These are fermentable by beer yeasts, where
>lactose is not, hence the additional CO2 Al's talking about.
Indeed... I was not clear in my original post and had never meant
to imply CO2 production by lactic acid bacteria. My original point,
which probably was forgotten by now, was that when using lactose in
your beer you should be extra careful with sanitation. The reason
for my concern (which apparently was missed by JEFF) is that in a
regular (non-lactose) beer there is quite a bit less potentially
fermentable sugar than in, say, a sweet stout made with lactose.
My apologies about the citrobacter, indeed I was wrong... the source
of the information, I believe was a homebrewing text or magazine
article. All my microbiological knowledge is not from microbio
textbooks, but rather from homebrewing and judging experience and from
homebrewing sources. Perhaps it's time I corrected that shortcoming.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 13:27:00 PDT
From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber@msrapid.kla.com>
Subject: Counter Presure Filler For Sale
Yes I bought a CPF from Braunk( what ever), and I can't stand the thing. I
had every problem previously mentioned and more. Then some kind soul here
on the digest suggested just sticking a plastic tube up my beer tap, and
just filling right from the tap.
Problems solved. Now I just sanitize and chill my bottles. Stick the tube
in the tap, and fill the bottle from the bottom up. Put the cap on the foam
that takes up the last inch or so of the head space, and crimp that sucker.
You should make sure the beer is cold and the bottles in the freezer right
before filling. After the bottles are sealed and the foam settles your left
with just c02 in there. It is just so easy you wouldn't believe it.
So- COUNTER PRESURE BOTTLE FILLER FOR SALE !! Used once and never again.
$20 If your still interested drop me a line.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:26:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: PAULDORE@delphi.com
Subject: Lager Malts vs. Ale Malts
Is there any reason why I should use only "ALE MALTS" instead of "LAGER
MALTS" when making an ale?
I have spoken to people who have said that is doesn't matter. I do not have
the facilities to make a REAL Lager.
PaulDore@delphi.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:48:51 -0700
From: wolfgang@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert F. Dougherty)
Subject: using calcium chloride...
A couple days ago I asked about figuring out how many PPM (parts/million)
of the ions a given amount of calcium chloride contributes to water. I
received many informative responses (thanks again to all who e-mailed
me!). Well, to summarize:
"calcium chloride" comes in two varieties- anhydrous and 20% hydrated.
I called the place where I got it (The Brew Club) and their supplier
(Brew Master) and they sell the anhydrous version. However, Karl
Scheppers said that the 20% hydrated is the "typical off shelf version",
so be sure to find out which version you've got!
Here are the numbers:
1 gram CaCl2 (anhydrous) contributes 95 PPM of Ca++ and 169 PPM of Cl-
to 1 gallon of water.
1 gram of CaCl2.2H2O (20% hydrated) contributes 72 PPM of Ca++ and
127 PPM of Cl- to 1 gallon of water.
I have compiled more info on this topic, so e-mail me if you have any
questions. (Is there a water FAQ? I found none in the sierra archives.
By asking this question, am I implicitly volunteering to start one? ;-)
How does one go about doing a FAQ? Is there a peer review before it goes
public?...)
thanks,
bob dougherty
wolfgang@cats.ucsc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 17:17:28 EST
From: mdemers@ccmailpc.ctron.com
Subject: RE: Woodchuck and Pale Ale
In HBD 1497, Mark Wilk poses the following question:
"Has anyone tried mixing a Woodchuck cider and a Pale Ale?"
And the answer is .......... YES!!!
He goes on to mention that he used Saranac for the Pale Ale. Well,
I've never tried that but I can say that Bass Ale mixed with Woodchuck
is absolutely delicious and is one of my personal favorites.
While we're on the subject of Woodchuck (and you had to see this
one coming), does anybody out there have a recipe for a good clone of
this wonderful cider? I made a batch of cider recently and did not
achieve the sweet taste that I was looking for. I have already made
an excellent Bass clone, but my cider mixed with it is simply not as
magical as the above mentioned concoction. So, any other Woodchuck
fans out there?
brew on,
md
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:45:55 -0700
From: BRCMRC.BRMAIN.MMENDENH@EMAIL.STATE.UT.US
Subject: breakin' the law
Following a recent thread regarding the legality of brewing in
certain states: I recently spoke with the Utah Department of
Alcoholic Beverage Control regarding homebrewing. I received this
answer: Homebrewing for personal consumption without a manufacturing
permit is illegal in Utah. However, if one is willing to jump
through a few hoops the State will consider sanctioning this hobby.
The hoops: file written application with the Department along with a
$100 non-refundable application fee; include statement of purpose
for manufacturing beer (just why do brewers brew brew?); provide
written consent of local authority; purchase a $10,000 cash bond made
payable to the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control; provide
evidence of public liability insurance; provide evidence that
applicant is authorized by the United States to manufacture alcoholic
beverages, provide signed consent form allowing unrestricted brewery
access to any employee of the DABC or any law enforcement officer;
lastly, any person making a false statement in any application,
document, or affidavit is guilty of a 2nd degree felony. Oh yeah, a
license may be denied to anyone convicted of a crime involving moral
turpitude.
The Department employee added that the local homebrew supply shops
aren't breaking the law by selling ingredients used in illegal
brewing as long as they aren't brewing themselves. He thought it
quite perverse that the shops are allowed to aid and abet in the
commission of crimes with such impunity. I asked him if anyone had
been prosecuted for brewing in Utah and he didn't think so. I'm
afraid a legislative effort to change the law would only draw
attention to homebrewing and I think the powers-that-be would rather
ignore its existence. That said, homebrewing is thriving in Utah and
I feel no need to draw the shades when I'm brewing at home.
------------------------------
Date: 10 Aug 94 23:11:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Oxygen during fermentation
Jim (as well as a few others) wrote:
>Im not sure about mechanical stirring, but I do not believe that any rousing
>of the primary fermenter is going to oxidize your beer. Theres just too
>much CO2 both being evolved and in solution of the beer. The key is to
>minimize any splashing of the beer surface, which could stir in O2. If you
>were introducing O2, it would likely show up in the beer.
It's true that if we were to swirl our carboys with the airlock or blowoff
tube still on, then there would be no O2 in the carboy to dissolve into the
fermenting beer. However, even if you do introduce O2 during fermentation
it will not add "wet cardboard" or sherrylike flavors. I believe that
sherrylike flavors are strickly a result of Hot Side Aeration (i.e. aeration
of hot wort) whereas "wet cardboard" or papery aromas, I believe are from
aeration of post-ferment beer. During fermentation, the addition of oxygen
increases diacetyl production.
At Samuel Smiths brewery in Tadcaster, they use a yeast that is so highly
flocculent that they must pump beer from the bottom of the fermenter and
spray it onto the top (Yorkshire Stone Squares, BTW). I've seen this in
person and I can assure you there was plenty of oxygen available, both for
me to breathe and for the spraying beer. The spray was fan-shaped, perhaps
a 45 degree angle and perhaps three feet in width when it disappeared into
the frothing head. The increased diacetyl production is certainly verified
by tasting the beer -- SS Old Brewery Pale Ale has a strong diacetyl component.
I don't know how often they do this spraying (it appears to be timer-
controlled), or if it is only used for part of the fermentation (e.g. the
first half or 2/3, maybe) but will try to find out. The person who led me
through the brewery was not a brewer and we left Tadcaster before I got
a chance to talk to the brewmaster in person.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:51:13 -0600
From: roberson@hydroxide.chem.utah.edu (Mark Roberson)
Subject: Millertov cocktails
Fellow brewers,
On the subject of priming, someone recently asked why you can't just skip
the whole process and bottle your beer before it finishes fermenting. My
experience suggests that this would be a BAD idea. After my weizen stopped
bubbling I siphoned it to the secondary and was left with a couple of pints
extra. With the above idea on my mind I bottled and capped the leftovers and
brought them in to work; while I was out of the office < thank God > they
exploded, driving green shrapnel into the drywall on all four sides.
When I was an undergrad I saw a film about what happens when the neck breaks
off from a gas cylinder: it punches a big hole in the wall. Now I have the
same respect for the little gas cylinders I make in my kitchen.
Mark
(o o)
=======================---ooO-(_)-Ooo---=====================================
Body by Budweiser
Mind by Mattel
==============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 21:52:22 -0400
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink@mtu.edu>
Subject: Re: Christmas brews/ preboiling/ plastic petri dishes
Ed asked about Christmas beers:
I know just enough about Christmas brews to know that different countries
have different interpretations of what a Christmas brew is. For example,
the British interpretation is often a barleywine or strong ale. I think it
might have been a spiced ale in the past (the origin of the word "wassail"
in the song.) The Germans might brew a weizenbock. When I was in Belgium
in May, they had some of the Gordon's Xmas Scotch ale (a slightly stronger
version of the regular Gordon's Scotch ale.) Other Christmas beers in
Belgium also seem to be stronger versions of the regular beers (Scaldis
Noel, for example), or a different but also stronger beer (the Stille Nacht
from De Dolle brewery, for example). It seems to me that you have to
consider what it is you are looking for, then look for a recipe to brew it
from. Of course, you could always brew them all, and have a very merry
Christmas! :-) One starting point though is the spiced ale in TNCJOHB
(Papazian). Brew it early so it has time to age (If that's why you are
asking about Christmas brews *now*, good job! You're doing a lot better than
*I* did last year! The darn brew wouldn't even finish *fermenting* in two
weeks, let alone get bottled and conditioned! :-) )
My $0.02 on the preboiling discussion is that I preboil before mashing
nowadays just to get rid of the dissolved O2 and other dissolved gasses as
well as the chlorine. Perhaps I could be recommended for the Anal Brewers
of America, but I think this will help reduce the HSA potential just a bit.
I have also noticed that since I have been preboiling, and being careful not
to splash/aerate during the mash process, the foaming at the beginning of my
boils is almost nil. I started testing this out after a friend mentioned
that the initial foaming was probably due to the dissolved gasses in the wort
coming out of solution just as the boil was reached. Made sense to me, and
it tested out in practice. BTW, if I want to get rid of the significant
bicarbonates in my water (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, it depends), I
go through the full preboil - cool - rack off routine, then I only heat to
strike water temp, not all the way back to boil.
Being the cheapskate that I am (sometimes, but not when looking for
the best ingredients, or GOOD commercial examples of beer!) I have tried to
save and re-use those plastic petri dishes. In the past, I sanitised (or
attempted to) with a strong meta-bisulfite solution. That was before I knew
the stuff I posted about meta-bisulfite not working so well. The bottom line
is, none of the plates grew anything over several days of waiting to check for
contamination. If I save these things again, I will sanitize with iodine
solution. BTW, COYOTE told me once that they make nice wall decorations
if you autoclave them! :-)
-Kelvin (kelvink@mtu.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:31:20 +0800
From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick)
Subject: Oh geeeez! (sam adams)
BEER ADS TO SMELL LIKE HOPS:
August and September issues of Newsweek, Rolling Stone and
Sports Illustrated will include beer ads with a scent. A
pioneering Scratch and Sniff advertising campaign from Boston Beer
Co., maker of Samuel Adams Boston Lager, will be launched.
Full-page ads will give readers the scents of Noble Hops and
German Hallertau Hops, which give the beer its flavor.
USA Today Descisionline 8-10-94
- --
jimmyp@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 02:58:37 EDT
From: JohnNewYrk@aol.com
Subject: Gravity
I brewed an all-grain pilsner yesterday, but I forgot to take an OG reading.
I did however take a reading just before starting the boil. The wort's
gravity was 1.042 & I had 7 gallons of wort. After the boil I had approx 6
gallons left, can I assume that the SG at that point was 42*(7/6) = 49??
The recipe I was following calls for a SG of 1.048, so I hope my math is
valid. Anyone know for sure??
John
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 07:57:13 +0500
From: mwithers@hannibal.atl.ge.com (W. Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Re: Japanese beetle repellent - homebrewed
When you boil chewing tobacco, you extract tannins and NICOTINE. Nicotine
is a DEADLY poison. 2-3 mg directly injected in a person will kill them (
if the person is a non-smoker). Mixing it with soap and spraying it on
the insects.... RIP to them. It does disapate/degrade within a few days
of applications, but ususally one to two applications will wipe out 95%
of the insect population in an area.
But if you are coning.. I would just use the soap.
My vines are really chewed up by them. But I have not started coning yet.
I have tettanger, cascade and williamette. The williamette is having
problems... the kid who mowed my yard last took the weed-eater to it 8^(.
So I have coxed it back to a total of 6" now. My tett and cascade is well
over 35' now (first year growth). I just waiting to see the cones start
up...
Mark Witherspoon
mwithers@atl.ge.com
------------------------------
Date: 11 Aug 1994 04:59:41 GMT
From: Adrien_Glauser@tvo.org (Adrien Glauser)
Subject: keg sanitation summary
I don't know if keg sanitation is on a FAQ file (For some reason I can't get
them) so I'll summarize what I've been sent and what I have found out.
First: Do NOT/NEVER use chlorine (an acid) or any abrasive substance to
clean your kegs. The reason being is that chlorine will eat the keg, leaving
small pits, and any abrasive substance will also scrape and pit the inside of
the keg. These pits and scrapes are perfect places for bacteria and other
stuff to hide in. Think of it being compariable to plastic fermentors. Once
they are scratched, you might as well through them out. With steel wool,
small fragments break off and get stuck in the stainless and this will make
your beer taste bad. Again, not a good thing.
Secondly: What you can use.
1) B.E.S.T. (Brewing Equipment Sanitizing Treatment). It is a low foaming
iodophor
2) Chlorinated Tri-Sodium Phosphate (CTSP)
3) 3/4 a gallon of boiling water into the keg, sealing, shaking wildly, and
then expelling some of the still hot water out of the 'out' tube. This
allows one to sterilize using heat
4) B-Brite, which breaks down to O2 and water, or some other commercial
sanitizing agent
5) Idophor - 2 tablespoons in 5 gallons of water
I have only just tried #3, so I have no experience with the other chemical
compounds. I guess the only thing I can say is read the lable carefully
before buying/using it.
Some people did mention that you can use chlorine/bleach. The trick is to use
a concentration that is weak enough and use a short expose time to reduce the
time that the chlorine has to eat your keg. <- "Not with my expensive kegs
you don't!"
This is just a summary of what people have sent me and of what I have read.
Treat your kegs with care and they'll give you a lifetime of loyal service.
If enough people who have used these specific sanitation methods (1to5)
e-mail me with their experiences, I'll post a revised summary.
The normal disclaimers & blah go here.
Brummbaer, the midnight brewer.
Adrien_Glauser@TVO.ORG
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 07:17:31 CDT
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653@MSBG.med.ge.com>
Subject: Taylor Mod Errandum
.int homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
OOPS! I left out one important measurement value in my 'research'. The
resistor values are in KOHMS not ohms. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Mike Teed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 8:20:43 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady@hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Buggy Tap Water
There has been some talk lately about buggy tap water, especially in
these summer months, and whether you should use it to rinse stuff before
putting your nice wort in it.
In their book "Vienna," George and Laurie Fix recommend using cheap
supermarket beer for rinsing out sanitizing solution & that a 12 oz
bottle is sufficient to rinse out a 5 gal vessel (carboy or keg). Well,
since I am cheap I adapted this method and would occasionally make a
batch of bottled, boiled water and use that. It was handy to have on
hand but I finally decided that it was more trouble than it is worth and
rely on pitching LOTS of yeast. So far, any nasties that may be in my
water have been kept at bay this way.
To make the bottled, boiled water:
1. Fill as many 12 beer bottles with water as you can fit in your
kettle - I used a 5 gal stockpot - and put them in the pot.
2. Fill the pot with water until it was just below the lips of the
bottles.
3. Toss in a bottle cap per bottle plus a few extras (I always drop at
least one).
4. Cover and bring to a boil. Boil covered for 20 min.
5. Use tongs/hotpads to retrieve each bottle and cap it.
I basically used the method for making canned, sterile wort in Dave
Miller's "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing."
- --
Jim Grady
grady@hp-mpg.an.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 08:34:13 EST
From: Robert.Fike@ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Subject: 5 liter mini-keg
I saw a request for info in a previous HBD about these 5
liter mini-kegs. I believe one of the answers that came
back described a plastic version that got less than
favorable recommendations (please don't flame me if I'm
wrong, I'm a relative newbie to brewing). I received some
literature from a homebrew shop in Pottstown Pa. describing
a 5 liter mini-keg made out of sheet metal (? or !). Can
anyone out there impart some knowledge upon this unworthy
one? For 49.95 +shipping you get four 5 liter mini kegs,
tap and 10 pack CO2 chargers. Thanks for bandwidth.
Yours in zymurgy,
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 08:38:59 EDT
From: cem@cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Sparging rate and George Fix
Last night I was reading the article by George Fix in the latest issue of
Zymurgy. It is an article on grain crushing and had some interesting statements
about extraction and sparging. I'll try to paraphrase... George wrote that
he gets much better malt flavor with a quicker rather than slower runoff.
For his 13.3 gallon system this was 20 - 30 minutes... and evidently he does
not suffer from poor extraction. (This would linearly extrapolate to about
7 - 11 minutes for 5 gallons, my calculations). He recognized that many
homebrewers sparge at 2 or 3 times this rate and attributed it to equipment
and/or poor crush.
Also, I got the impression that he measures extraction directly from the
mash before runoff.
Can anyone jump in here...
If George is reading this, possibly he can elaborate... eg, his sparge times,
equipment, extraction measurement techniques, his extraction rates...
regards,
ChuckM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 08:57:22 EDT
From: PSTOKELY@ea.umd.edu
Subject: Codes,West Virginia
I'd like to thank all those who e-mailed me privately about my
buddy's equipment being confiscated in West Virginia. His is the only
story I've ever heard where someone was penalized for homebrewing,
and apparently it was legal all along. Where does one look to find
the actual pertinent state laws? COMAR (Maryland State Code), for
instance, is a large, unreadable book that does not have an
index."Popping down to the library to look it up" would take several
afternoon's worth of reading/searching. If I'm ever confronted by the
authorities I'd like to quote, chapter and verse, what my rights are
regarding homebrewing. Is there an easier way?
BTW, West Virginia is an incredibly beautiful state and most of the
folks I've met in Shepherdstown, Morgantown and Elkins are people I'd
like to have as neighbors. I guess they also have their share of
bored, mistrustful cops, so let's not bash the place.
Paul S. in College Park, Maryland "You speak in strange whispers,
friend, are you not of The Body?"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:09:00 EDT
From: mlittle@cclink.draper.com
Subject: All grain equip. cost details
<<<<<< Attached TEXT item follows >>>>>>
Text item: Text_1
Hi Folks,
I posted a few days ago my costs for an all grain brewing setup. I've
gotten quite a few (18) requests for detailed parts/price list. I'm
posting the list now for anyone interested.
Mash/Lauter Tun
10 Gallon Gott cooler $57.74 Tags Hardware
Phils Phalse Bottom $16.28 Beer & Wine Hobby
Spigot, tubing $4.00 Beer & Wine Hobby
Total $78.02
Wort Chiller
Garden Hose, 50 ft. * $8.37 Home Depot
3/8" Cu tubing, 50 ft. * $24.99 Home Depot
3/4" Y fitting (2) $7.20 Metropolitan Pipe
1/2 - 3/8" Compression (2) $5.38 Home Depot
3/4" - 1/2" Adaptor (2) $3.61 Home Depot
Hose Clamps (2) $1.37 Masse Hardware
Hose Coupling (2) $4.83 Home Depot
Bucket $4.19 Home Depot
Valve $4.00 Masse Hardware
Compression fittings (2) $5.00 Masse Hardware
Sub-total $59.94
Credit $16.65 sale of half the
lengths (*)
Total $43.29
Brew Pot
1/2 bbl. Sankey Keg $56.80 Bev-Con Int.
Bulkhead fittings, washers,
ball valve, compression fitting,
hose $15.00 Tags
Cu tubing Scrap
Cu Scrubber $2.00 Star Market
Total $73.80
Stove
Brinkman Stove $62.35 Home Depot
Propane Tank $14.98 Home Depot
Total $81.20
Grand Total $276.31
These items were purchased in the Boston area, YMMV.
Brew On,
Mark
------------------------------
Date: 11 Aug 1994 09:20:13 -0500
From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh@omail.wang.com>
Subject: Phil's Philler
Todd Boyce asked about Phil's Philler:
I have used same for about 5 batches and find it a good
replacement for the inexpensive "valve-on-the-end-of a-cane"
filler. It does take some getting used to, as it is not spring
loaded as the cane end valve is (don't hold it upside down;
the beer will flow!)
However, it does fill with less agitation, and the fill level remains
the same when you remove the filler.
I recommend it as a useful addition to your brew gadget
collection.
-gk ( George.Kavanagh@omail.wang.com )
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 8:29:32 MDT
From: npyle@hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Waste Water / Dry hopping
All this talk about hot water (from your chiller) killing the grass, bushes,
etc., has me very skeptical. I've seen people trying to use hot water to
kill weeds but I've never seen much success, even when they do it repeatedly.
The ground is a hugh thermal mass, wouldn't you agree? A few gallons of hot
water aren't likely to damage anything, especially if you run it through any
type of sprinkler device. I'm not going out to pour 30 gallons of boiling
water on my hops, mind you, but I wouldn't worry about a few gallons of say,
150F water.
**
Scott asks about whether to bother doing several hop additions if he is going
to dry hop. By all means, Scott, the dry hops add a strong character, but
they aren't a substitute for flavor/finishing hops. I think you'd get a much
better complexity by doing all the additions instead of just dry hopping.
Besides, dry hops contribute virtually no bitterness, whereas middle hop
additions certainly do. If you were to skip the middle additions, you'd have
to make sure you compensated for the loss of bitterness by adding more early
hops.
Cheers,
Norm npyle@hp7013.ecae.stortek.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 11:01:47 -0600
From: gmeier@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Meier)
Subject: forfeiture laws and homebrew
On the 8/10 HBD, Glenace L. Melton posted that: "The federal forfeiture
laws allow the police to confiscate anything they wish if they think it is
involved in a violation, and they do not have to prove the violation in
court or even file a complaint." I'd like to clarify one point, that being
while the police can initially CONFISCATE most anything they want if they
think it is involved in some kind of legal infraction, in order for them to
KEEP it, they still have to convince a court the forfeiture was valid. The
WV cop who confiscated the homebrew was out of line, and IMO the brew would
have been returned if any sort of challenge had been raised by its lawful
owner. Still, it sucks when the forfeiture laws are overzealously applied
and innocent citizens have to waste time and money fighting it.
Gary Meier
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 11:14:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Closed fermenters/rakes
Teddy writes:
> I'm often impressed by the freshness of the flavors in beer from
> brewpubs. I'm not sure exactly how I'd describe it except to say that
> there's good, resiny/floral hop aroma and flavor, and nice, smooth
> maltiness. Are these qualities due to the equipment that they use in
> mashing and boiling, or are they due to the closed-system fermenters
> that they use?
Most certainly from the ingredients and techniques, not the closed
fermenters. Sierra Nevada Ales are made in a large SS open fermenter.
Algis writes:
> Subject: Rakes/Oak Casks
>
> Rakes:
>I visited about 6 or 8 breweries (I'm still jet-lagged out... hard to think..
>tried to drive on the wrong side of the road this morning) and asked the
>brewmasters at every one whether they use the rakes during the sparge. The
>resounding answer was NO, and that the rakes are used only for spent grain
>removal. In some, the rakes fold up, completely out of the mash until needed
>for grain removal.
Well, now we have 6/8 data points from British breweries. Now we need to
get samples from German, Belgian, Swiss and Checz breweries to see what they
do! I have also been asking brewers this question and often the answer is
"I run em every 15 minutes for about 2 minutes then turn em off", or
"I run em a bit in the start, then let em set until halfway through and
sometimes drop the height as the lauter proceeds". I got a paper from
Rich Fortnum who attends the Malting, Brewing & Distilling Science program
at the Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh, Scotland. In this paper, they
did studies on controlled procedures in Weizen production. One of
the interesting points was the specific detail of height of rakes and
speed of revolution in the lauter tun. If I recall, the rakes were idle
until about 50 mins into the lauter, then they were progressively rotated
faster and deeper for the remainder of the lauter. Just goes to show
different strokes for different brewers/breweries/styles/malts.....
So, Algis, what was *the* best beer on the trip, and did you
return with a beer engine?
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 9:10:13 MDT
From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Hopping/Keg Fermenting
Scott asks:
>I'm getting ready to dry hop an English-style pale ale with 1oz of EKG.
>Normally, if I wasn't dry hopping, I would add several hop additions i.e.
>30 min and 45 min into the boil. Is this a waste of time if I am dry
>hopping? I'm wondering if the powerful dry hopped aroma/flavor will
>overwhelm any effects from late hop additions. Any thoughts/experience?
My experience has been that if you want a nice hop aroma then dry hop. Only
very late additions to the boil and steeping provide any aroma at all in my
brews and even then a lot of the aromatics are lost in the steam. I dry hop
all of my brews (except those in a style with little or no hop aroma) and
still use multiple additions to the boil. The reason is hop flavor. Where
those late additions fail to add aroma they make up for it in hop flavor. Not
bitterness; flavor. If I really want hop flavor I put up to an ounce of loose
hops into a strainer that sits below the false bottom of my lauter tun/hop
back and run the entire volume of hot wort through this on it's way to the
chiller. I have been told that this type of late flavor/aroma hopping is
used in some breweries in the UK. The result is pronounced hop character that
is ideal for any "hophead".
I suggest that you use the tried and true approach of only changing one thing
at a time and add you dry hops to a brew otherwise hopped as you have in the
past. Compare the result and decide what you prefer. No way is the dry hopping
going to spoil the batch and you really have to decide for yourself whether
it is too much or just right.
>Stephen Lovett asked about a fermentation lock on corni kegs that won't
>require modifying the keg.
I have not tried this because I brew 5 gal. Imp. batches and the keg is too
small for fermentation, but why not remove one quick connect stem and push a
piece of plastic hose over the threaded stem. An airlock stem should provide
a good seal when inserted far enough into the other end. If the hose is just
long enough to accomadate both of the rigid parts, the airlock should be well
supported and not fall over.
- ---
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Randy M. Davis: Mobil Oil Canada Calgary, Alberta Canada |
| rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 09:07:29 MDT
From: exabyte!smtplink!guym@uunet.uu.net
Subject: St. Patrick's of Texas
There continues to be barbs thrown at Lynne O'Connor and St. Pat's every
few digests and I've seen all I can take without responding. I have been a
customer of Lynne's for a number of years now and have *NEVER* been treated
with anything but courtesy. She has the overall best prices I have seen
for homebrewing supplies and the quality of her products is first-rate. I
have quite a few of her plastic jars that she ships her extract in around
the house being used for various functions. And their hop packaging is the
best in the business in my opinion. I ordered three of the ball lock kegs
a few weeks ago myself. After a couple of weeks, they had not arrived so I
dropped Lynne email to see if she could track them. After being unable to
locate them, she shipped three more which arrived in 3 days. Simple as
that. They had originally been shipping the kegs taped together but not
boxed and UPS had been "losing" a number of them. I suspect that there are
a few homebrewers in their employ who picked some really cheap kegs!
Anyway, they have begun boxing the kegs before shipping and the arrival
rate has gone up significantly. Anyway, my point is that anyone who
"refuses to do business" with St. Pat's is only hurting themselves by
ruling out one of the best supply shops in the country. I, for one, will
gladly continue to be a customer of Lynne's.
--
Guy McConnell guym@exabyte.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1499, 08/12/94
*************************************
-------
