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HOMEBREW Digest #1517
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/09/03 00:32:56
HOMEBREW Digest #1517 Sat 03 September 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Homebrew on the www (John Adams)
Re: Advertising on HBD (Mark Bellefeuille)
Seattle Ale Festival ("A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee")
Neophyte questions & thanks (St. Rich Brewing Co., Huntsville, AL)
sfd (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Peat Smoked Malt (Don Rudolph)
How to prepare polyclar / philchill fittings (Tom Riddle)
Re: Wort Chiller Construction (John Hartman)
bad citizens (John Lenz) jel3@cornell.edu
Temp controller (Gregg Tennefoss)
IBU reference (Bill Sutton)
SG calculations (Bill Sutton)
pepper beer (RONALD DWELLE)
wheat beer follies ("Dulisse, Brian")
Cavebrew ? (Richard A Childers)
Elderberry Wine ... (Richard A Childers)
Propane cooker results (smtplink!guym)
United Kingdom Trip (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
American Wheat beer info / DWC Roasted Malts (R. Keith Frank, DCR&D, 409-238-9880)
Re: Homebrew on WWW (Jim Grady)
Spiced ale yeast/hops question (Karl Elvis MacRae)
drying hops (Bryan L. Gros)
Wort Chiller Construction, Terry Terfinko ("Guenther H. Trageser")
Responses to Celis White clone recipe and Cleaning Oven Top (Dean J Miller)
Brinkmann Burner and 15 G. kegs (Alan Richer)
Hop utilization (Bob Jones)
Yeast pitching-rate puzzle (Ken Willing)
******************************************************************
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** through August 26. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
** or cancellations.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 11:18:15 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams@hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew on the www
The Beer Page
http://guraldi.itn.med.umich.edu/Beer/
This is a very good homebrewer's related homepage. It include recipes,
GABF results, Homebrew digests, bottle labels, and other beer-related
links.
The Virtual Pub & Beer Emporium
http://lager.geo.brown.edu:8080/virtual-pub/
This is more geared to beer and less to homebrewers. It includes a
patrons list, beer tasting guide, beer glasses, and the Reinheitsgebot.
Beer & Brewing
http://nearnet.gnn.com/wic/cook.05.html
This is another homebrewer's homepage. It includes recipes, general
information, and cooking with beer, and gardening.
Eric's Beer Page
http://pekkel.uthscsa.edu/beer.html
This contains beer reviews, brewpub listings, recipes, and a schedule
of events.
Austrian Beer Guide
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/keith/austrian-beer.html
A guide to various Austrian beers and restaurant guide.
Cat's Meow
http://guraldi.itn.med.umich.edu/Beer/cats-meow/top_page.html
This is the current version of cat's meow in HTML format. I very handy
online version.
John Adams
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 10:34:38 -0700
From: Mark Bellefeuille <mcb@mcdpxs.phx.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Advertising on HBD
X-Mailer: Siren Mail (Motif 1.2 94/03/14)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-ID: <109_25726_778354477_11@mcdpxs>
Content-type: text/plain
"djt2@po.cwru.edu" says:
>> Hey, "Lynne O'Connor" <stpats@bga.com>
>> Let's keep the advertising off of HBD. *Very* bad behaviour, that.
>> By the way, that is not just a suggestion, that is the stated role of the
>> internet, even if you have a .com account.
>> dennis
Dennis's post could have been sent as direct email.
I'd just like to know how a 'Digest' classifies as 'the internet'. Can one
receive the hbd as email without using the internet?
Don's post had some prices discussed; but, except for the last one they were
old prices. He did discuss packaging and gave his opinions on topics that are
near and dear to homebrewers.
I've ordered from St Pat's. They've taken my money. They don't give me any.
mark
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. Bellefeuille mcb@phx.mcd.mot.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 11:25:10 -800 (PDT)
From: "A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee" <sturdy@itsa.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Seattle Ale Festival
Don't know if this message ever made it into the HBD. Don't recall
reading it. ANyway, I received no responses. So here goes again.
Has anyone been to the Ale Festival in the past? It's not called the
"Seattle" Ale Festival, but something like the Great Northwest... It
starts on Labor Day and goes through the tenth. Any opinions? Anything
not to be missed? Parking tips? I'm travelling up from San Jose (I know you
don't like Californians, but I'm not native) and want to make the best use
of my time.
Please respond to <sturdy@itsa.ucsf.edu>.
TIA,
Sturdy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:28:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: edmondso@athena.msfc.nasa.gov (St. Rich Brewing Co., Huntsville, AL)
Subject: Neophyte questions & thanks
Thanks to the guidance of a personal homebrew tutor, books by Charlie
Papazian and Dave Miller, and the HBD, I'm proud to say that I'll be
prying caps off of my first batch this weekend - an all grain Pale
Ale. All indications at bottling and during a carbonation check
indicate that at a minimum it will be better than I ever thought beer
I made would be. So, thanks for this great forum and the confidence
it breeds in newbies like myself.
Now a couple short questions (I read the hbd.faq, hop.faq, and
yeast.faq - very good sources of information - but couldn't find the
answer to these two. Perhaps in the upcoming mash.faq?):
1. Could someone who uses a Corona mill e-mail me personally the
setting that you use for milling your malt? Based on the
aforementioned books and tutor's advice that most homebrew shops will
mill your grain, I assumed (bad thing to do) that mine would too.
They pointed to the $60 Corona on the shelf. I declined, and spent 3
hours crushing grain by hand. Actually got ok results for a beginner
with no mill - about 28 points/lb/gallon. So budgetary constraints
forced the corona for now ($35 mail order), but would I like some
guidance on it's use. I plan to brew batches 2 and 3 this weekend -
an Altbier and a Kolsch, so rapid replies are best.
2. What is TIA at the end of peoples posts?
BTW, thanks to weird admin here, replies to the machine that sends
this message will never get here. If you are kind enough to reply,
please be sure to do it to edmondso@trade-zone.msfc.nasa.gov.
Thanks,
- --
Rich Edmondson
"St. Rich" "Sometimes you're the windshield,
Sometimes you're the bug." - Dire Straits
------------------------------
Date: 31 Aug 94 20:38:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: sfd
Sean writes:
> When I brew (which is not often enough these days), I usually chuck
>in my bittering hops, then add my finishing hops at the end of the
>boil. Nice and simple. But lately, I've been perusing recipes that
>call for a certain number of IBUs at 15 min., a certain amount at 30 min.,
>and so forth. Why do you do this? My guess is to control the amount of
>bitterness in the beer, and presumably, to drive off less volatiles
>during the boil. If that is the case, why not just add bittering hops
>later in the boil (which, I think would accomplish both points). What
>am I missing here by my "barbaric" hop schedule?
Your "barbaric" hop schedule is fine. As hops boil, two things are
happening: 1) alpha-acids are being isomerized and 2) volatiles are
boiling off. The longer you boil, the larger the percentage of AA's
will get isomerized and the larger the percentage of AA's that will
stay in solution when you cool (this is boil utilization). Also, the
longer you boil, the more volatiles you boil off. Anything longer than
about 5 or 10 minutes and most of the hop aroma will boil off. Anything
longer than about 15 or 20 minutes and most of the hop flavor will boil
off. So, you see, your bittering hops (the ones you plunk in with
90 or 60 or even 30 minutes to go contribute mostly bitterness. Flavor
hops that you add with 15 or 20 minutes to go will add quite a bit less
bitterness, but some of their flavor will remain. Finishing hops, added
with only 5 or 10 minutes to go will add virtually no bitterness but
will add a little hop flavor and quite a bit of hop aroma.
Last night I was reading an article entitled "An Investigation of the
Relationships Between Hopping Rate, Time of Boil, and Individual Alpha-
cid Utilization" by A.J.Irwin, et. al. from Vol. 43, No. 3 of the ASBC
Journal, in preparation for an upcoming book review I'm writing. In
this article, the authors were trying, among other things, to minimize
the cost of adding bitterness to beer. As I've explained above, the less
you boil the less bitterness you are going to get from the hops, but also
the more money you will spend on heat. You could get a similar amount
of bitterness from a 30 minute boil with, say 2 ounces of hops, as you get
with a 60 minute boil with, about 1 ounce of the same hops, but with less
energy cost. Perhaps the researchers were considering only the very low
hop rates of typical industrial lagers, where the effect of the added hop
flavor might be less, but in the case of our more highly hopped styles
it could be problematic.
Consider the case where you would use about four times the hops of a 60
minute boil, but only boiled 15 minutes. In this case you would be making
a beer with an incredible amount of hop flavor even though the actual IBUs
would be the same as if the beer was made with a 60 minute boil and a "normal"
amount of hops.
So, the answer to your question is that yes, you could get the same amount
of bitterness from a shorter boil, but the cost of hops would be higher,
you still should boil 60 minutes for good hot break (which incidentally
is made better by the addition of hops -- so your hot break might be worse)
and the amount of hop flavor could be excessive for the style.
*******
Spencer writes, quoting from the Malt Advocate:
>author (a BJCP certified judge & homebrewer) claimed that force
>carbonating produced the "nasty" bitterness that one finds, e.g., in
>American mega-swill. As opposed to hops, which give a "nice"
>bitterness.
Perhaps you were a bit too subtile for some... I think Spencer meant
to point out that this *bull* and that the method of carbonation is
NOT going to affect the bitterness.
********
Mark wrote:
>I have come to the conclusion that these differences in head retention
>and carbonation quality are due simply to the amount of time the beer
>is allowed to sit with carbonation before dispensing. If you give
>your beer at least one week to sit with pressure on the keg I think
>that you will find you get the same great head retention as with
>natural conditioning.
I agree that time is a big factor. My experience is that it does take
some time to get that fine-bubbled carbonation, but then the small-protein
content of the beer is going to determine if the head lasts or doesn't.
In other words, a thin, overcarbonated beer might have a nice head at
pouring, but the head would collapse shortly thereafter and the beer
would taste acidic and prickly, as opposed to a properly carbonated beer
with a good level of small-proteins which would have a long-lasting head
and a lot smoother palate.
and:
>However, I must note that at the AHA conference I tasted a porter that
>was force carbonated using a stainless carbonating stone (huge). It
That wasn't just Porter, that was Great Lakes Brewing Company's
Edmund Fitzgerald Porter! But I agree, it had a nice, creamy
head and very fine bubbles, all in about 30 seconds.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: 31 Aug 94 14:05:17 EDT
From: Don Rudolph <76076.612@compuserve.com>
Subject: Peat Smoked Malt
Dear Smoked Malt Freaks:
Domenick may beat me to the punch, but Liberty Malt Supply, the famous(?)
suppliers of Marris Otter Pale Ale Malt, carry a peat smoked malt. I've
tasted it (not brewed with it, >:( yuk), a very noticable but not
overwhelming smokey taste. Made me yearn for some Glenfiddich (sp).
Phone: (206) 622-1880
Don Rudolph
Seattle, WA
76076.612@CompuServe.COM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 08:06:53 -0400
From: Tom Riddle <tom@Glue.umd.edu>
Subject: How to prepare polyclar / philchill fittings
In my latest batch I forgot the Irish Moss and decided
to try some polyclar in the secondary. The polyclar
came with no instructions and my literature search
(Miller, Fix, Papazian) also came up empty. So the
question is, how does one prepare the stuff ? I thought
of boiling it in some water to sanitize, but wound up
pitching it dry. Does anyone know the proper usage ?
Also, I noticed in the latest issue of Brewing Techniques
an ad for Philchill Fittings - basically a kit for
making a counterflow chiller. The ad is for wholesalers
only. Does anyone know of a retailer who has these ?
thanks,
tom
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Riddle email: tom@eng.umd.edu
CALCE Electronics Packaging Research Center voice: 301-405-8023
University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 fax: 301-314-9269
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 07:21:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Hartman <jhartman@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Wort Chiller Construction
Excerpts from mail: 1-Sep-94 Homebrew Digest #1515 (Sept.. Request No
Articles@hpfc (45723)
> I accepted the fact that I can't fix the
> kink, but was wondering if anyone had a way to coil tubing that was safe.
> I guess I will write this one off as education.
Way back when in 7th grade science class, I constructed a solar water
heater that used 3/8" copper tubing. My father had a hand held tube
bender, probably something a plumber would commonly have. It was able
to make something like a 3" radius 90 degree turn, more than tight
enough for a chiller. I would imagine you could find one at a plumbing
supply store that would fit 5/8".
Maybe warming the tubing just a little prior to bending would also help.
You could also try filling one/both of the tubes with sand or something,
but that could be tough to clean out afterwards. In the metal
fabrication shop I worked in one summer we commonly filled small
diameter tubing with some alloy with a very low melting pt, bent the
tubes, then heated them in boiling water to drain the alloy. Don't know
what it was, but it's probably not practical for home use anyway.
-jh
John Hartman AFS: jhartman+
Dept 43K/006-2 C101 VM: jhartman at rchland (if you must :)
Dev/2000 Perfomance Team internet: jhartman@vnet.ibm.com
IBM Rochester, MN (507)253-8037 tl. 553-8037
WWW: http://www.rchland.ibm.com/~jhartman/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:43:48 -0400
From: (John Lenz) jel3@cornell.edu
Subject: bad citizens
Sorry to waste space with a complaint, but does anyone else think
that something should be done about
OAKQM3@oakqm3.sps.mot.com
and
Mailer.MC1@hesdmail.mmm.com
?
The former periodically submits a resend request with a header from a
previous digest, which gives our local redistribution node fits. The
latter sends annoying messages to inform us that someone's disk is
full. Seems to me that a policy of quietly dropping subscribers who
cause such problems after three offenses would be in order. Most
recently, both these bad apples affected #1514.
On a more beer related note, to the fellow who related his
attempt at N.A. beer in 1514 (didn't know about him till after I
retrieved 1514 from Stanford), two thoughts. If simple empiricism
suits your style, why don't you just drink a six-pack and see if
anything happens? Or, you could contact Jack, or Jean Hunter. When
Jack was first working out his low-alcohol procedures, Jean did some
lab tests on some of his brew.
Op uw gezondheid,
John "Let's clean house" Lenz
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:26:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: greggt@infi.net (Gregg Tennefoss)
Subject: Temp controller
I was just reading the new radio shack catelog and came across a gadget in
the components section ( page 122 ) that sounded interesting. The device
is a thermometer/controller with remote bulb and quote "Use as is for
thermometer or add circuits to control buzzer, LED, fan or heater. Hi/Lo
activation temps, -40 to +122 F and -40 to +50 C ranges, !/2" Lcd display
Draws onlt 10 micro amps. With probe, cord, data. 2 11/16 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/8".
Requires "AA" battery. CMC 277-123 .... 19.99"
I have not seen this and I think CMC means special order but has possibilities.
I do not own Tandy Blah Blah Blah ..............
cheers
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 10:26:26 EDT
From: Bill Sutton <wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>
Subject: IBU reference
I am trying to find a way to reference IBUs to something other than
particular beers. As a beginner in identifying flavors, I want to get
the bitterness as standalone as possible, without having it hidden by
additional maltiness or other differences.
A while back there was a wonderful post about using various extracts and
a reference beer for learning about off flavors/odors. Would it be
possible to use hop extract and a reference beer to come up with
IBU references that are "brewer neutral"?
Feel free to email, I'll summarize responses.
- --
Bill Sutton ++ So many songs,
(wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com) ++ So little beer.
HP pays me to talk about datacomm. Everything else I do on my own.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 10:30:26 EDT
From: Bill Sutton <wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>
Subject: SG calculations
I brewed a new extract based pale ale last night and, while it seems to be
well within style, it didn't match my calculations at all.
I used 4 lbs of Alexander's Pale Malt Extract Syrup, 2.9 lbs. of Alexander's
Pale Extract Kicker, and 8 oz. 40L crystal malt for the brew.
Brew procedure was:
Boil 2.5 gallons H2O, add salts, remove from heat and cool to 150 F.
Add Extract Syrup, add Crystal Malt (in grain bag). Steep 15 min.
Bring wort back to boil. Remove Crystal Malt & "squeeze sparge".
Due to bad decisions ("hmm -- I'll bet loose hop pellets will be utilized
more efficiently than if they were in my hop bag..."), my siphon was really
horrible and I ended up with only 2 gallons. After topping this off to 5
gallons, I ended up with an SG of 1.043 (corrected to 60 F). Unfortunately,
I didn't measure the SG of the partial boil volume (sorry - it was midnight
and I wasn't clinking thearly...)
Based on charts and data in Mosher's _Brewer's Companion_, my estimate
for the OG was 6.9 lb * 8 pts/lb in 5 gallons = 55.2 for the malt
extract, .5 lb * 7 pts/lb in 5 gallons = 3.5 for the crystal = 58.7
(1.0587). I have never gotten this high before, so my expectation was
in the 1.050 range.
I'm not unhappy with the result, as an OG of 1.043 will work just fine.
I'm more concerned with trying to understand why my calculations didn't
jive with my results.
I am leaning toward the theory that Alexander's is more like 6 pts/lb in
5 gallons, not 8. This makes the SG from malt syrup 41.4, and when adding
the 3.5 for the crystal leaves 44.9, which is only about 10% off and
makes sense to me as loss from the leftover gunk in the brewpot.
Is this a good assumption? Is there a better reference on adjusting SG
based on ingredients (TNCJOHB gives a brief treatment but it doesn't seem to
be very accurate)? Specifically, I am looking for information on the
relationship between amount of ingredients and SG (linear? Exponential?
from the literature at hand it seems to be linear, but I also remember
reading that it isn't quite ...), a formula that gives SG for N gallons
given a constant provided for the ingredient (DME, syrup, crystal, etc),
and a table of these constants. Mosher and Papazian have tables, though
Charlie's is a little sparse and Randy's seems to be too specific (no
ranges). Mosher doesn't treat dilution of an existing SG at all, and
I'm having problems working with Charlie's (especially since he claims
in TNCJOHB that a 50% dilution is a factor of 2.5?) I can't find a good
treatment in Miller or Line.
I'm interested in this because I want to understand the function of
non-mashed ingredients in adding SG points after I go to all grain.
I also want to predict my OG better so my hops utilization calculations
can have a prayer of being accurate.
Feel free to email me, I will summarize responses.
- --
Bill Sutton ++ So many songs,
(wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com) ++ So little beer.
HP pays me to talk about datacomm. Everything else I do on my own.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 10:41:36 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: pepper beer
I've seen several references to "pepper beer" in the last week or
so, but can't find a receipe. Can someone supply? Or direct me to
the right archive. All-grain preferred, but I can convert an
extract receipe.
TIA
Ron Dwelle (dweller@gvsu.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 11:06:00 EST
From: "Dulisse, Brian" <BBD4@CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV>
Subject: wheat beer follies
continuing my mission of trying to make a decent wheat beer, i made two
changes to my usual (ok, three batches so far) process (which consists of 6#
or so of 50/50 wheat/barley extract and an ounce of hallertau): i steeped a
pound of wheat at 180 f for 30 minutes, and rinsed with a gallon of 175 f
(or so) afterwards, and i made up a reasonably full sized starter (750 ml)
for the 3068 yeast (in the past i have simply dumped the contents of the
pack after it has swelled).
slightly over 5 gallons went into my 6 gallon carboy. since i bought the
carboys (2 batches ago) i've used a blowoff tube, but never had any goop
blow off. this time, i forgot to stick the blowoff tube in a bleach
solution, so i figured it won't matter, i'll just use an airlock (i happened
to have one which had been sitting in a bleach solution). i left the carboy
in the kitchen, and didn't look at it before i went to work the next morning
(late, you know). when i got back last evening (about 18 hours after
pitching) i found the airlock about 10 feet from the carboy, and some pretty
intense foam crust around the carboy. i made an emergency strength bleach
solution and soaked the blowoff tube about 5 minutes, hoping for shock
decontamination, then stuck the tube into a carboy, with the other end in a
quart jar of water. immediately, i got bubbles out of the blowoff at
slightly more than one per second.
this morning when i checked, the blowoff tube was filled with yucky stuff,
as was the water in the jar. when i went to bed last night (6 hours after
inserting the blowoff tube) there was nothing visible in the tube and the
water was clear. i don't recall how fast it was generating bubbles this
morning. should i be worried about the cloudy goop generated overnight, or
is this a normal consequence of faster fermentation resulting from pitching
a larger quantity of yeast? by the way, it smells great.
a second question: how long do y'all let your (german-style) wheat condition
before putting it in the fridge? once in the fridge, how long does it take
for the beer to round out? my last batch sat at room temperature for a week
and a half to two weeks, then went into the fridge; after three weeks in
the fridge the flavor has improved significantly. how does this compare
with your experiences? i'd hate to drink the last batch up now if it will
improve further :^).
thanks,
bd
bb4@cipcod1.em.cdc.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 08:39:27 -0700
From: pascal@netcom.com (Richard A Childers)
Subject: Cavebrew ?
Hey, this opens up a whole new branch of brewing ...
It would not be hard to implement such an operation. One would only need
to _lower_ equipment and supplies ... naturally lager yeasts would be
required, given the ideal lagering temperatures available underground.
( Hell, I'll bet there were operations during the Prohibition that took
advantage of this fact. Gives "underground operation" a whole new mean-
-ing ... :-)
You'd never need to worry about your brew getting contaminated by light.
The bacteria count underground might be lower, and lack of air currents
might facilitate operations, also.
With a small underground stream at hand, you'd have no problem getting
water, and, in fact, would have a ready heatsink with which to chill your
wort, as well.
Best of all, you'll never destroy your kitchen stove, floor, counters and
cupboards again with boilovers.
Be careful climbing back up, though ... (-:
- -- richard
Law : The science of assigning responsibility.
Politics : The art of _distributing_ responsibility.
richard childers san francisco, california pascal@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:08:28 -0700
From: pascal@netcom.com (Richard A Childers)
Subject: Elderberry Wine ...
Elderberry wine
or
The Great Brewing Matrix
"Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 08:31:55 -0600
From: grow@sumatra.mcae.stortek.com (Roger Grow)
Subject: Elderberry Wine Request
"I am searching for an elderberry wine recipe. Either a straight wine
or a melomel recipe would be great."
If you have recipes for wine, or melomel, why not try them - with your
elderberries substituted for a similar fruit ?
Generally, I use about 2.5 - 3.0 pounds of honey, and an equal amount
of pitted-frozen-thawed-mashed-in-bag-dumped-in-hot-wort fruit, per
each gallon of water. This is just a "rule of thumb", which I playfully
ignore with great consistency. (-: You should, also.
If the flavor of elderberry is a subtle thing, like strawberries tend
to be, then increase the amount of fruit.
Choose your yeast according to the characteristics you'd like :
flat: use white wine yeast
bubbly: use champagne yeast
Generally, I see brewing as a finite but unbounded ( growing ) spectrum :
f e r m e n t a b l e s & a d j u n c t s . . .
+-------------------------------------------------------- - - - -
y |
e | B E E R S
a |
s | - - - - - - - -
t |
s | W I N E S
|
& | - - - - - - - -
|
b | C H A M P A G N E S
a |
c | - - - - - - - -
t |
e | naturally occurring yeasts yet to be categorized ...
r |
i | - - - - - - - -
a |
. | ... etc ...
.
. |
Just think of it as a Really Big Spreadsheet ... and experiment by combining
the rows and columns that please you, or intrigue you, the most.
If you absolutely *have* to have something that's edible, consider doing a
series of slightly different preparations over a few weeks. This will also
increase the possibility, in case of infection(s), that some of the brews
will be drinkable, still ( which will not be the case if they are all done
at the same time ).
And, remember, even the bad batches can be given away to friends as bottles
of exotic marinade ... (-:
- -- richard
Law : The science of assigning responsibility.
Politics : The art of _distributing_ responsibility.
richard childers san francisco, california pascal@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:44:24 MDT
From: exabyte!smtplink!guym@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Propane cooker results
As supported by the posted responses to my question regarding the best
cooker for a half-barrel keg, the overwhelming choice appears to be Metal
Fusion's Cajun Cooker. I just called them and ordered a catalog. There
were also several interesting modifications for other cookers, all of which
would probably work, but I've decided to go with the Metal Fusion cooker.
If anyone is interested in the suggested solutions I got for other cookers,
email and I'll send them to you. Thanks to all who responded.
--
Guy McConnell Exabyte Corporation guym@exabyte.com
"Maybe we'll leave come springtime. Meanwhile, have another beer."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 12:43:42 EDT
From: "Peter J. Burke" (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: United Kingdom Trip
Greetings,
In a previous posting, I asked for help in brew-pub info for
Vienna and Budapest. Thanks to all who responded, but my trip's
destination has been changed to the United Kingdom !
I will be in NOttingham, Ridgedale (North of Newcastle),
London, and Stevenage.
Any help out there on the HBD for pub info ?
The trip is soon (11-20 Sept), so any help would be appreciated !
Thanks in advance, send information to:
Pete Burke
pburke@pica.army.mil
Cheers!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 12:16:37 -0500
From: keithfrank@dow.com (R. Keith Frank, DCR&D, 409-238-9880)
Subject: American Wheat beer info / DWC Roasted Malts
I want to brew an American style wheat beer in the next week or two and
would like suggestions, recipes, tips from the HBD. I would prefer
extract or partial mash for the first attempt and if anyone has
recommendations on brands of wheat extract this would be most helpful. I
do single temp infusion all grain typically but could handle step infusion
if the results are worth the extra time. No decoctions, please. One of
my main concerns is overdosing the hops.
David Draper - could you send me a summary from your related request on
the Sept. 1 HBD?
The Malt Shop in Wisconsin told me that DWC roasted malts are
de-bitterized and would have a cleaner flavor compared to domestic
ones. Anyone know anything about this? Is this significant?
TIA,
Bruce DeBolt c/o keithfrank@dow.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 13:34:17 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady@hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew on WWW
I tried sending this directly but Davin needs to buy some more disk
space. Anyhow, others may be interested:
Here are 2 www Beer pages. I frequent "The Beer Page" the most.
The Beer Page:
http://guraldi.itn.med.umich.edu/Beer/
The Virtual Pub & Beer Emporium:
http://lager.geo.brown.edu:8080/virtual-pub/
Hoppy CyberSurfing!
- --
Jim Grady | "Any idiot can face a crisis - it's this day-to-day
grady@hp-mpg.an.hp.com | living that wears you out."
| Anton Chekhov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 10:39:09 PDT
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman@cisco.com>
Subject: Spiced ale yeast/hops question
Got little or no help on this from the newsgroup, so maybe
I can get a little more input here. I'm looking for guidance
from those with more personal knowledge about yeast and
hops varieties.
- -------------
I'm planning to brew something akin to Papazian's 'Holiday Cheer',
with perhaps a minor change or two.
My questions involve yeast and hops.
I've only used Cascade and NB hops (For pale/amber and for
a stout), and wyeast 1056 (American) and 1084 (irish)
yeasts.
With the following recipe, would there be any particular
yeast or hop varieties that would be particularly good
to use? Or should I just go with the basic 1056 and follow
Charlie's hop guide (Cascade for bittering, Saaz for aroma)?
Thanks.....
7lbs amber extract
1 lb light honey
1 lb 80l crystal
1/2 lb chocolate malt
1 oz fresh ginger
6" cinnamon stick
1 tsp whole cloves
(Maybe some nutmeg)
grated rind of four oranges
-Karl
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Karl Elvis MacRae Software Engineer Cisco Systems, Menlo Park, CA, USA
batman@cisco.com 415-688-8231 DoD#1999 1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 10:43:58 -0700
From: bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: drying hops
Has anyone every dried their homegrown hops in a dehydrator?
Any hints? What temperature and for how long?
It's almost that time for my Saaz.
Thanks.
- Bryan
bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu
------------------------------
Date: 01 Sep 94 14:58:55 EDT
From: "Guenther H. Trageser" <73672.613@compuserve.com>
Subject: Wort Chiller Construction, Terry Terfinko
There is a very simple trick to preventing kinks while bending metal tubes.
Fill them tightly with dry sand. You may only need to do this with your
inner tube, but for a perfect bend you should try and fill both tubes. its
bound to work a treat.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 15:39:41
From: djmiller@tasc.com (Dean J Miller)
Subject: Responses to Celis White clone recipe and Cleaning Oven Top
Thanks for everyone who responded to my request for a Celis White clone
recipe and how to clean my stainless steel sink.. I have summarized the
responses here
I have received the following recipes from my request for a clone of
Celis White:
>From the homebrew archives I have pulled the following:
- ---------------------------- #1 ----------------------------
From: tony.storz@cld9.com (Tony Storz)
Subject: Celis White Clone Recipe [HBD #1310]
Recently there was a request for a Celis White Clone recipe. Here is a
recipe that I came up with and uploaded to Compuserve in early November.
Thanks to Steve Daniel and Steve Moore from the Home Brew University
BBS (713-923-6418) and my electronic friends on Compuserve who helped
steer me in the right direction by giving me a starting point.
Pugsley's Pseudo Celis White #5
malt: 4.5 lbs. 6 row (or 2 row)
specialty: 4.0 lbs. Unmalted Wheat (Bulgar from Health Food Store)
4 grams dried orange peel
4 grams crushed corriander seeds
1 tsp. Alpha-Amalase enzyme
lactic acid
hops: 1 oz. Hallertauer
yeast: 1 pack Wyeast #3056 Bavarian Wheat
optional: 1 tsp. gypsum
OG 1.041 FG 1.011
Bring 2 gallons water to boil. Add unmalted wheat and hold at 185-195
degrees for 20 minutes. Add cold water and 6 row malt to bring down to
130 degrees. Add 1 tsp. amalase and gypsum (pH 5.3). Allow protein
rest for 25 minutes. Raise temperature to 150 degrees and hold 20
minutes. Complete conversion by raising temperature to 158 degrees and
holding for 20 minutes. Mashout at 168 degrees for 5 minutes. Acidify
sparge water to pH 5.7 with lactic acid. Sparge with 4-5 gallons of
170-180 degree water. Boil wort for 90 minutes. Add hops and crushed
spices 15 minutes before end of boil. Cool wort and pitch yeast.
While this will not fool everyone into thinking that this is the real Celis
White, I was very happy with the outcome. The spices are "up front"
without being overpowering. However, some people like a wallop from the
spices and you will need to experiment with the spice amounts.
After a couple months the spices have faded a bit, so next time I will
double the spices and probably try Wyeast White beer yeast.
This recipe should give you a good starting point with which to
experiment. If anyone else has a recipe for a Celis White clone, or have
any comments or questions on my recipe, please feel free to E-mail me or
post.
- ---------------------------- #2 ----------------------------
The Elusive Wit
5# 2-row
5# wheat malt
1 oz Hallertau, 3.2% AAU, 60 minues
.5 oz Hallertau, 3.2% AAU, 30 minutes
1 oz Saaz, 4.0 %AAU, 20 minutes
1 quart Brewer's Resource Belgian Wit ale yeast starter
3/4 cup corn sugar for priming
1/2 tsp orange peel, added to secondary
1 tsp crushed coriander, added to secondary
OG = 1.048
FG = 1.016
As you can see, this recipe calls for 50 % wheat malt. I've also
seen recipes which call for 45% un-malted wheat. The wheat or wheat
malt are what give's the beer it's milky appearance or
"uncorrected chill haze." The coriander and the orange peel
make for a very interesting flavor profile. There's also a third
spice, but PC is not willing to divulge it.
The above recipe did very well in the Minnesota Brewfest (300 entrees).
It won first place in the Belgian category (30 entrees), (Judged by John
Isenhauer) and then went on to take Best of Show (Judged by
Michael Jackson, Andy Leith and Isenhauer).
============================
From: sohaskey <sohaskey@mactel.uthscsa.edu>
Subject: Celis White
Here is the recipe from a kit that Austin Homebrew sells.
3 # What dried malt extract
2 # Light dried malt extract
0.5 oz Coriander
2 oz Saaz Hops AA 3.9%
0.3 oz Curacao orange peel
Windsor Ale yeast
The extract and hops were added in the usual way. The coriander
should be crushed. (Well crushed if you like the taste. ) The orange peels
should be added for the last 10 minutes of the boil.
The problem with this recipe is it doesn't take into account the lactic
acid sourness of White. I guess some lactic acid could be added or a
lactobacillus. I have never done this although I am considering it.
Well, I have not tried this recipe. (But I did live a half mile from
the Celis Brewery) As I said this is what Austin sells. You might want to
compare it to other recipes you have gotten and see what they have in common.
==========================
For the cleaning of Stainless Steel:
=========================
From: JohnNewYrk@aol.com
I too get those dreaded black stains every time I brew. My better half can't
stand it (probably because she is usually the one who finally gets rid of
them). The solution we/she have/has come up with is this: before you go to
bed soak the stains in bleach; in the morning, scrub. You'll find that it
requires a lot less scrubbing this way.
==============================
From: nigelt@delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend)
Try liquid/jelly paint stripper. I once cleaned an oven in a caravan that
had been squatted in and then used by children as a wendy house. The oven
and top had been regularly used without cleaning for several years, and
then sat uncleaned for about five years. After several attacks of
painstripper,and the use of a high pressure hose, it changed colour. As it
was a gas cooker, I also had to drill out the holes in the gas rings
because the paintstripper softened the gunk over them, but couldnt work its
way all the way through. It looked and worked fine afterwards.
The cooker was an old heavy duty enamel finish. I suggest that you first
try the method on a small spot that isnt too obvious.
==================================
From: Mike Schrempp <73764.306@compuserve.com>
We use baking soda (the yellow Arm & Hammer box) as scouring powder for our SS
sink. It works great. It might work on your stove top.
====================================
From: Mark Gryska <mark@vicorp.com>
I've used something called "Bar Keepers Friend" which works
pretty good. You could also try using something nasty like
lye (wears gloves, eye protection, apron, plenty of ventilation...)
Lye (sodium hydroxide) will disolve all kinds of organic material.
This includes skin! I think Bar Keepers Friend should work, I found
it at my local hardware store.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.
dean
Dean Miller
djmiller@tasc.com
I'd rather be brewing...
------------------------------
Date: 1 Sep 94 15:50:01 ES
From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Subject: Brinkmann Burner and 15 G. kegs
I have this combination (gift from the wife for my birthday...),
and there's an easy fix to the problem.
What I did was to obtain a square of expanded metal mesh
a bit larger than the bottom of the keg, and place it on top of
the Brinkmann burner. i supports the keg edges nicely, and I
have no worries about using it this way at all.
Junkyards are a wondereful place to get this stuff cheaply.
Al Richer - aricher@crd.lotus.com
P.S.: it's nice to see my old FAQ is still going strong. I'm
thinking of doing Rev. 2, if Dion doesn't have the time to
finish his.
Any data you'd like to see me add, mail it to me, and
I'll take a shot at cranking out rev. 2 in a few weeks.
ajr
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 13:08:17 +0900
From: bjones@novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Hop utilization
I recently spoke with Micah Millspaw (the brewer at Murphys Creek Brewery)
and he has added forced kettle ventilation to his kettle primarily so they
can increase the level that they fill the kettle to. The forced ventilation
reduces or eliminates any boil overs. This way they can fill the kettle
right up to the top. By doing this he has discovered that his hop
utilization has increase to 40%! These are varified numbers via analysis. He
would like to hear from anyone out there that has any similar experience or
could explain this effect. Sounds like some interesting research here could
be done. He says his boil temperature is 201 deg f. This is due to the
altitude of the brewery and the lower pressure induced by the fans suction.
Micah's number at the brewery is (209)736-BREW
I would think this topic would make for some interesting dialog here as well.
I would like to hear both Mark G. and Glen T. comments.
Bob Jones
bjones@novax.llnl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:22:23 +1000 (EST)
From: Ken Willing <Ken.Willing@mq.edu.au>
Subject: Yeast pitching-rate puzzle
Wishing to accentuate maltiness and limit yeasty flavors, I have always
followed the practice of pitching a sizeable starter (1 - 2 quarts of liquid
in active fermentation) for a 5-gallon batch. But now (in the Zymurgy 1989
special issue on yeast) I come across what looks very much like advice to
actually UNDERPITCH, in order to achieve this purpose. This of course
flies in the face of the common wisdom on this subject...
So I'd be very grateful if someone could set me straight on why I'm wrong to
conclude from the Zymurgy article that underpitching is a good idea. I'll
now quote the passage I'm referring to:
[Extract from: Yeast Biology and Beer Fermentation, by
Jean-Xavier Guinard, Mary Miranda and Michael J. Lewis, Ph.D.
_Zymurgy_, 12, 4 (1989).]
Consistency of beer flavor in the fermentation stage depends on the
kinds and amounts of organic molecules excreted by the yeast; that is,
materials other than alcohol and CO2. Collectively these flavor
compounds often are secondary metabolites formed in small quantities
at different points in the main fermentation. However incidental they
may be to the yeast, they are crucially important to beer flavor. They
account for only a small proportion of the total sugars fermented, but
they comprise many different kinds of compounds in very low
concentrations, many with very low detection thresholds (i.e., easily
tasted at low concentration). These secondary metabolites originate
in many different metabolic sequences in various parts of the cell.
They have different functions and respond in different ways to the
environment imposed by the fermentation conditions. [...]
Some 90 percent of fermented wort sugar is transformed to alcohol and CO2;
>> the remaining 10 percent is divided about equally between yeast growth and
>> production of flavor compounds. Generally speaking, anything that promotes
>> yeast growth relative to fermentation will tend to reduce the amount of
>> flavor compounds produced by directing the carbon of the fermented sugar
>> into yeast mass. Such things as highly aerated wort, low yeast inoculum,
>> ideal growth temperature, very nitrogenous wort, for example, would have
>> this moderating effect. Conversely, suppressing yeast growth relative to
>> fermentation will tend to have the opposite effect; e.g., very high or low
>> temperatures, high yeast pitching rate, high gravity wort and unaerated
>> worts will tend to promote production of yeast flavor compounds. Thus
fermentation may be viewed as a pipe through which carbon from sugar flows
on its way to alcohol and CO2; the pipe has small holes in it through which
some carbon can escape as flavor compounds. The pressure in the pipe, how
full it is and the length of time it is in use all help determine the amount
of leakage of flavor compounds into the beer. Fermentation bouquet arises
from a host of volatile compounds among which higher alcohols and esters
feature prominently [etc.]...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for any help.
Ken Willing <kwilling@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Sydney 2109, Australia
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1517, 09/03/94
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