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HOMEBREW Digest #1477
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/07/16 09:30:48
HOMEBREW Digest #1477 Sat 16 July 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
the batch from hell (Gregg Tennefoss)
cleaning question (Steve Robinson)
Re: I need some immediate help, PLEASE!!!! ("Mark B. Alston")
(john keith hopp)
Pseudo-Kriek (WLK.Wbst311)
Grains FAQ/mash times/Heineken and skunks/yield (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
adjusting mineral content of water.... (Robert F. Dougherty)
Brewing in England ("Anderso_A")
Effects of not mashing grains (TJWILLIA)
Ginger Beer and REAL Root Beer Recipies (GONTAREK)
EASYBREW TM (douglas.kerfoot)
How to unbottle a bung (JBROS)
Full Sail ale? (John Williams)
CaraPils malt (Fred Waltman)
Hydrometer readings ("Anderso_A")
Re: Fruit Fly Beer? (Tel +44 784 443167)
Japanese beetles, storing hops (Jim Dipalma)
EDME yeast works quickly (15-Jul-1994 1014 -0400)
Re: Helles BOck (Jim Busch)
Saison(al) query (VIALEGGIO)
Bluebeery Ale recipe (GONTAREK)
Re: Carboy Bunging Problem / Elk Mountain Ale Review (mdemers)
Quick ferments, high temps, overcarbonated, S.G. thoughts, fruit flies, A/B, pumpernickel stout (Nancy.Renner)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 13:11:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: greggt@infi.net (Gregg Tennefoss)
Subject: the batch from hell
Have you ever read an account of something and thought that it just
couldn't be true? Well this is one of those and I know it's true because
it happened to me.
After checking my beer fridge for inventory, I found that I was down to
2 gallons in one keg and almost dry in a second. Seeing that the levels
were getting critical I immediately popped a pack of yeast to make a
starter. After the usual week of starter preparation, I fired up my
kettle, sparged my grains, and enjoyed the normal amount homebrew
required during such a process. Then it happened, I chilled the wort and
got ready to pitch the starter. As usual, I sniffed the starter right
before pitching - IT STUNK - I tasted it - IT WAS HORRORABILY SOUR.
Now here I am with 5 gal of lager wort and no starter. Lucky for me I
found a pouch of fairly recent california lager yeast in the fridge and
tossed it the wort. Yes I popped the inner pouch first. I left it at room
temp for 3 days and it finaly started fermenting. I transfered the corboy to
the beer fridge and began to bring it down to lager temps. Two or three
days later I went out to draw my self a cool one. What I got out of my keg
was hot foam. PANIC !!! I wipped open the door to the fridge and found that
not only was it hot, but white fuzz was growing all over everything including
inside the blow off hose inside that nice new batch of wort.
I closed the door in discust and started the repairs to the fridge only to
find that the compressor was shot. I went inside and called a friend and
explained that whe had some beer to drink. I pulled the kegs out, iced them
down, and drowned my miseries.
I just left the carboy in the fridge and kept meaning to clean out the fridge,
but actualy didn't get around to it until 3 weeks later.
When I finaly opened the fridge back up I found the blow off hose and stopper
laying in the bottom of the fridge and every thing was white and fluffy.
Being incredibly stupid, I decided to taste the sludge as I saw nothing
growing inside the carboy - IT TASTED GOOD. I pulled down a keg, sanitized
it, and transfered the beer into it. I hooked up the co2 to purge the 02
and to force carbonate and found no pressure. I found after the drowning of
my miseries I left the co2 on and it all leaked out. I grabbed a bag of old
dry extract, boiled it and tossed it in the keg. I burped the keg a couple
times over the next couple of days to let the o2 out and am now eagerly
waiting to drink this creation. If the sample I pulled a couple days ago
is any indication it should be great.
I guess you can break all the rules and still survive.
cheers
greggt@infi.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 13:15:19 EDT
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson@analog.com>
Subject: cleaning question
Does anyone out there know what the best cleaning agent is for cleaning scale
off the heating element of a Bruheat(tm)?? Reply by e-mail is fine, as I can't
imagine this is of general enough interest to warrant posting.
TIA,
Steve Robinson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 11:29:27 MDT
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb@math.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: I need some immediate help, PLEASE!!!!
You could try uncapping them and letting them sit for a little bit
then recap them. This should let some of the excess CO2 out and drop
the carbonation level quite a bit. Moreover, let me suggest doing
some trials on individual bottles before attempting to correct the
entire batch. Perhaps first trying to simply uncap and then wait one
minute before recapping. The pressure should equalize in less than 24
hours but I would give it that long before testing to be safe. From
this data point you should be able to judge how long to leave them
uncapped.
P.S. when I say uncapped I think that you should just set the new cap
on top of the bottle but don't attach it. This way you will keep the
nastys from falling into your beer and the CO2 flowing out will purge
the head space of any O2.
Good luck.
Mark Alston
c-amb@math.utah.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 11:30:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: john keith hopp <jhopp@unm.edu>
Subject:
What's the real beef against Jim Koch <tm?>? What has been his
reprehensible behaviour so as to warrant constant derision in HBD (a
search through HBD back issues yields little detail).
As for CooBudMill(etc.), I see that they are cranking out reliable crap
and bogus ads, but SA seems much more reserved, ad-wise; quality is decent.
Plus, SA is reasonably cheap ($5-6/per) and the bottles are tough and
reusable (as Anchor has gone to crappy screw-tops).
So, what's the beef?
I really do want to know (natch, private replies OK-I would summarize and
re-post)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 12:16:39 PDT
From: WLK.Wbst311@xerox.com
Subject: Pseudo-Kriek
Greetings:
First of all, thanks to everyone who responded to my questions which concerned
harvesting yeast dregs from bottles of naturally carbonated brews; especially
from wheat beers. Good candidates include La Chouffe, Blanche de Bruges,
Dentergem, Hoegaarden Wit or Grande Cru, Steendonk, and DeDolle Bos Keun. I
tried the B de B and made a nice extract Wit. The yeast behaved well and had
all the traits that people mentioned.
Anyhow, I notice that Miller calls for Breiss (sp?) Weizen Syrup in some of his
wheat extract recipes, though all I have seen in the brew stores around here
are Munton and Fison and Alexanders. Is the Breiss Weizen Syrup all wheat
malt, or is blended with barley malt like the ones I have seen in the stores?
I notice his ersatz Kriek (sp?) calls for 6.6# of the Breiss Weizen Syrup per a
5 gal. batch. That seems like alot of malt, especially if we are involving
significant amounts of barley malt! I would like to make some manner of Kriek,
I guess I am asking how much Munton and Fison Wheat or Alexanders Wheat extract
I should use for a 5 gal. batch. Thanks.
Bill King
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jul 94 19:23:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Grains FAQ/mash times/Heineken and skunks/yield
Jim writes:
I have a lot of comments on the Grains FAQ which I will send directly to
Jim, but there is one point I feel is important enough to comment on
immediately.
>Carapils (Dextrin Malt)
>Dextrins lend body, mouthfeel and palate fullness to beers, as well as foam
>stability. Carapils must be mashed with pale malt, due to its lack of enzymes.
>Use 5 to 20% for these properties without adding color or having to mash at
>higher temperatures.
Properly made, high-quality Carapils or Dextrin malt does not contain any
starch and therefore does not require mashing. I used a pound of US carapils
in a 10 gallon batch of extract beer about two years ago and I distinctly
recall that the beer was crystal clear -- no mashing -- no starch haze
whatsoever. I believe it was Miller who initially said that it needs to be
mashed and everyone jumped on the bandwagon. Perhaps poorly made crystal
malts may need to be mashed, but not the quality stuff.
******
David writes:
>looking for some advice. I have Miller's _Brewing The World's Great
>Beers_ and Line's _Big Book of Brewing_ to refer to. First, I am
>wondering about the duration of the mash. I know that once starch
>conversion is complete, additional time is required for beta amylase to
>convert the dextrins produced by alpha amylase into maltose, so that a
>successful iodine test is not the signal to begin sparging. Miller
>describes an hour as sufficient time for a partial mash, but specifies at
>least two hours for a full mash. This difference suggests that mash time
I don't believe that everything that Miller writes is 100% correct. This
is one example. Perhaps he used to do very stiff mashes and could not stir
the full-size mash very well -- that's the only way I could think of a
larger mash taking longer than a smaller one. Secondly, "once starch
conversion is complete, additional time is required for beta..." is not
necessarily correct. It depends on how dextrinous a wort you want. For
a more dextrinous wort, you want to mash at higher temps (156-158F) so the
beta amylase gets denatured and the wort retains a lot of dextrins. If you
want a very fermentable wort, then you want to mash at cooler temps (148-
152F) at which the beta amylase will denature much more slowly and, indeed,
the wort will have less dextrins and more smaller, fermentable sugars.
By the way, iodine will react dark red with dextrins and black with starches.
Re your alt recipe: if you are trying for a Dusseldorf Alt, more munich, less
lager and make sure to hop the heck out of it (50+ IBUs).
******
Brian writes:
> I'm not familiar with the skunkiness of Heineken but
>could it be a high level of dimethyl sulphide?
There are no skunks in the UK, so it's not surprising that our brethren
across the big pond would not be familiar with the aroma. No, mercaptans
are the source of the skunkiness in both light-struck Heineken and real,
live skunks too. Skunkiness has been refered to as "catty" in some texts
for the benefit of those who haven't had the pleasure of meeting a real
skunk, but I feel this comparison is misplaced. I also believe that
Heineken may be available in brown bottles in the UK (I know it is in
Holland and other parts of Europe). Pour a glass of any hoppy pale beer
and set it out in the sun or under fluorescent light for an hour or two.
THAT'S THE SMELL OF SKUNK! Dimethyl sulphide (DMS) is a cooked-corn (maise)
aroma.
*******
A few weeks ago a fellow brewer came to me with complaints of low yield.
He was getting only 22 pts/lb/gallon with high-quality, DeWolf-Cosyns
Pale Ale malt. I suggested that he check his crush and pH. He said he
was using a corn mill for shreding his malt. He called me last night
and reported the results after only changing one variable: 29 pts/lb/gal.
A 32% increase in yield. He said it could have been even better since
after stopping his sparge when the kettle was full his runnings were
still at 1.020. The one variable: he bought a JSP MaltMill.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 12:59:41 -0700
From: wolfgang@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert F. Dougherty)
Subject: adjusting mineral content of water....
Here's one for the water chemistry gurus:
Our muni water here is quite high in carbonate/bicarbonate (~150PPM),
but not so high in Calcium (~40PPM). I have had great success brewing
with this water (w/ the chlorine filtered out). However, I did notice
that all my attempts at really pale brews (all 2-row pale malt or just
2-row pale and wheat) were minor to severe failures. I noticed this
trend and when I learned more about water chemistry and the mash (from
Miller, mainly) I figured out why. (Interestingly, my mashes did work
to some extent- there was just lots of starch haze and high FGs.)
Wanting to work with what I've got, I've stuck to amber to dark brews,
with great success. However, I would like to brew a successful pilsner
before I die (or at least move from Santa Cruz ;-), hence my question:
I'd like to dilute my hard tap water with distilled water, and can
figure out how to get the carbonate/bicarbonate levels down. But, do I
need to worry about any other minerals getting too dilute? I was
thinking of boosting the calcium level with calcium chloride. So, here
is the main question: what are the reccommendations for calcium and
carb/bicarb levels for a pilsner? Also, what other minerals should I
be concerned with? And, finally, how many PPM of calcium (and chloride)
does a gram of calcium chloride contribute to a liter of water? (Oh,
and, if possible, about how many grams are in a tsp of the stuff? my
scale isn't very accurate!)
I'll post a summary of replies, so e-mail is fine.
thanks,
bob dougherty
wolfgang@cats.ucsc.edu
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jul 94 13:55:00 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A@hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Brewing in England
Message Creation Date was at 14-JUL-1994 13:55:00
Greetings,
I recently learned that there is a high probability
that I will be sent to Bath, England for 2 years starting
around September. Most people would immediately start
thinking of mundane things such as renting their house,
finding a home for their dog (English quarantine laws), or
living arrangements while in England. Not me! All I want
to know is how will I adapt my brewery to life in Bath.
So this is a request to homebrewers living in England:
Please drop me a line so that I can contact you with
questions. I'm quite curious about issues such as propane
as a fuel source, fittings for CO2 system, availability of
supplies, legal ramifications, etc.
Cheers,
Andy Anderson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 17:18:02 EDT
From: <TJWILLIA%OCC.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Effects of not mashing grains
Hi all!
I don't know why I did it, or what I was thinking of ...but
I used pre-cracked caramel malt in an extract brew, thinking of it as a
specialty addition to increase body. However, I got to thinking later...
Shouldn't I have mashed this grain to get the desired extraction? If and what
problems will occur because I didn't mash but only leached the sugars
(in 170 F)? I brewed a brown ale and added 1Ib. of caramel. Any thoughts?
TIA.
Tom Williams
tjwillia@occ.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 18:00:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK@FCRFV2.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: Ginger Beer and REAL Root Beer Recipies
Greetings all. From time to time I have seen requests for recipies
on how to make ginger ale and root beer. The wife of a good friend
is a gardener, and gave me two recipies she found in the Aug/Sept 1990
issue of "The Herb Companion". I hope this helps.
Ginger Beer
1 ounce fresh ginger root, chopped coarsely
1 lemon, thinly sliced
2 Cups sugar
1 gallon water
1/8 tsp yeast
Simmer ginger and lemon for 30 minutes, add sugar and stir to dissolve.
Cool to lukewarm. Stir in yeast, cover pot and let stand for 1 hr.
Bottle. *Note: the directions do not say this, but I would strain
the stuff before adding the yeast. Also, I'd store it for a few days
at room temp, then transfer to a coooool place, lest you have glass
grenades.
REAL Root Beer
5 quarts water
1/4 ounce hops
1/2 ounce dried burdock root
1/2 ounce dried yellow dock root
1/2 ounce dried sarsaparilla root
1/2 ounce dried sassafras root
1/2 ounce dried spikenard root
1 1/2 cups sugar
1/8 tsp granulated yeast
Simmer herbs for 30 minutes. Add sugar, stir to dissolve. Cool to
lukewarm, add yeast and stir well. Cover and let sit for 1 hour.
Bottle as above.
The article said that you can get the ingredients fro a mail-order
company:
Rosemary House
120 South Market St
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055
I have no affiliation with this company, standard disclaimers apply.
Good luck to you all. Have a chilly one for me!
Rick Gontarek
gontarek@ncifcrf.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 17:53:18 -0400
From: douglas.kerfoot@sbaonline.gov
Subject: EASYBREW TM
Just a quick story to remind all the new brewers out there that you don't need
to be a chemist to enjoy homebrewing. Two weeks ago I made a five gallon batch
with the following recipe:
1 can of M&F Canadian Ale hopped extract
2 Alexander's Kicker cans of Wheat extract (1.4 lbs each)
The packet of yeast that came with the Canadian Ale kit
I mixed the extract with about 1.5 gallons of hot tap water, stirred it good
and then added 3.5 gallons of cold tap water and pitched the yeast. Three days
later I racked it. On the 8th day it had cleared nicely (no finings) so I
kegged it. By the 10th day I was drinking a cloudy but tasty ale. Now a few
days later it tastes even better and the chill haze is lessening.
I am not recommending this method, but it was quick and easy with very little
mess, did not steam up my kitchen and best of all it shows that brewing can be
as easy or difficult as you want to make it. If you enjoy making complex brews
then do it. If you want to keep it simple, do it. If you want to flame me,
that's ok too. If you want to worry about my beer I don't mind, just don't
expect ME to worry about it. Oh yeah... I sucked the hose!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 16:17:47 PDT
From: JBROS@IOSSVR.gm.hac.com
Subject: How to unbottle a bung
Tony McCauley asked yesterday about how to retrieve a bung from
inside a carboy.
Reminds me of an old restaurant trick with an empty wine bottle.
Stuff the cork (aka bung) into the wine bottle (aka carboy), then
bet all takers that you can retrieve the cork without breaking it
or the bottle.
Out of everyone's sight under the table, stuff a cloth dinner napkin
into the bottle and invert the bottle so the cork gets caught up in
the folds of the napkin (watch for the dregs of the wine here...).
After a few tries, you should be able to pull the cork out just by
tugging on the napkin (It takes a good firm pull...).
Should work for bungs and carboys, too!
Jim Brosseau
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 23:08:41 +0500
From: John Williams <jwilliam@hartford.edu>
Subject: Full Sail ale?
Brewers
A short question on Full Sail Ale. A friend of mine had a week
in Seattle and asked what beer he should drink. I suggested Full Sail
Ale. He called up and said it had a funny after taste. He also wanted
to know if I meant the Pale or the Amber. Anyway, he brought home three
of each for me to try. The Amber was good and tasted to me like it was
dry hopped with Cascade hops. The Pale had the funny after taste he was
talking about. It was really sweet and tasted like honey, old honey.
Does anyone know what gives with this stuff? Also he said he could only
find the pale on tap in Seattle.
Thankds for your help. John Williams
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 17:31:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: waltman@netcom.com (Fred Waltman)
Subject: CaraPils malt
The "proto malt FAQ" had a statement about the need to mash CaraPils malt,
because of a lack of enzymes. I agree with the lack of enzymes, but not with
the need for mashing. According to my DeWolf Cosysns Maltings data sheet it
is a caramel malt (along with CaraMunich, CaraVienne and Special B) that has
already gone thru saccharification. Maybe the domestic high dextrine
malts are different.
Fred Waltman
Marina del Rey, CA
waltman@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jul 94 13:32:00 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A@hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Hydrometer readings
Message Creation Date was at 14-JUL-1994 13:32:00
Greetings,
I've seen several postings in the last couple of weeks
dealing with reading the hydrometer when there is trub or
other crud in the test tube. What you have to realize is
that the hydrometer is just a simple density test; it does
nothing to measure the actual composition of the liquid.
That's why you have to be aware of the difference between
solution and suspension.
What you want to measure is the specific gravity of the
wort or beer. It will be greater than 1.000 (except some
FG's for mead) as the unfermented sugars are denser than
water. You are measuring the resulting SG of a solution.
As long as temp and pressure remain constant, they remain a
liquid solution. However, SUSPENSION is a different issue.
Take your test tube and fill it with water and take the
hydrometer reading - it should be about 1.000. Now, go get
some loose dirt from outside and stir it in thoroughly. The
liguid becomes quite murky and your SG will increase to
maybe 1.010 (a function of the saturation level of the
fluid). Now, let the test tube sit over-night and the dirt
is sitting on the bottom of the tube and the SG is back down
to 1.000. When particles are in suspension, the SG of the
fluid will temporarily increase as the mixture has become
denser, but as the solids precipitate out of suspension the
SG will accordingly decrease.
Once the particles drop out of suspension THEN you
achieve the analogy of the rocks in the riverbed and the
never-changing canoe waterline.
To cut to the chase, measuring the FG is no problem
because the beer should be relatively clean. Similary,
measuring an OG is no real problem as the yeast hasn't
kicked into gear yet. The exception would be if you don't
filter/strain your wort, or your testing sample comes from
scraping the bottom of your boiler/carboy. In these cases,
just let the sample sit in you test tube for an hour or so
before taking the reading. Or, just RDWHAH ......
Wow! Can I get off my soap-box now?
Prosit,
Andy Anderson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 11:23:15 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland@rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Fruit Fly Beer?
In HBD 1476, 1ar568@freenet.carleton.ca (Aaron Shaw) writes:
>
> Dear Fellow Homebrewers. I presently have a brown ale in
> my primary fermentor (25 litre pail), which has been there for
> about 24 hours so far. My problem is that there are these fruit
> flies that are flying all around it. If one or two managed to
> get in could they harm my precious brew? [Rest deleted]
>
The reason that fruit flies are undesirable around beer and
wine is that they can carry bacteria (can't remember name at the
moment) that basically turns fermenting beverages into vinegar.
Fruit Fly Beer = Malt Vinegar
Fruit Fly Wine = Wine Vinegar
Fruit Fly Puree = Dead fruit flies! :)
Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 09:53:43 EDT
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Japanese beetles, storing hops
Hi All,
Art McGregor writes:
>The gardening
>salesperson at the local hardware store recommended Liquid Sevin
>for controlling bugs, and from reading the back of the bottle,
>most waiting periods are 0-2 days before harvest. Anyone know
>about this stuff and if direct spraying on the flowers will
>damage them?
Can't comment on whether Sevin will damage the flowers or not, but
this stuff is *extremely* nasty. Last summer, I had a wasp nest the size
of a softball under my deck. I mixed some Liquid Sevin at about twice the
recommended concentration, and put it in a spray bottle. There were about
a dozen wasps clinging to the nest when I let 'em have it. They dropped
immediately, and did not move - they were dead before hitting the ground.
Personally, I would'nt use anything stronger than Safer's on any plant
I plan to ingest. If Japanese beetles are a problem, plant some marigold
or garlic right next to your hops. These plants give off an aroma that
Japanese beetles hate, it's a very effective means of keeping them away.
The technique is called "companion planting", I've used it in the past to
protect roses and basil plants.
Before this turns into the "Home Gardener's Digest":
>As far as harvesting, I was thinking of putting
>the flowers in mason jars.
Late last summer, my wife came home with a 1 gallon ziploc bag crammed
full of fresh Cascade cones that someone where she works had grown and
given her. There had to be 7-8 ounces of hop leaf, I knew I couldn't
possibly use them all while they were still fresh. I put them up in one pint
mason jars purged with CO2, sealed them up, and placed them in the freezer.
Stored in an oxygen free, oxygen impermeable container at freezing
temperatures, they kept well for months. I used the last of them this past
spring, they were still very fresh.
The process of storing them in this manner can be a truly religious
experience as well. The cones were so fresh, there was so much sticky
yellow resin on them, I had to stop twice to wash my hands - the cones
were sticking to my fingers. The small basement area where I was doing this
soon filled with the heady aroma of Cascades - I imagined this is what
drowning in a vat of SNPA must be like. If the Lord had taken me then, I
would have died a happy man. For a confirmed hophead such as myself, a
deeply spiritual, moving experience. :-) :-)
Cheers,
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 10:16:04 EDT
From: 15-Jul-1994 1014 -0400 <ferguson@zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: EDME yeast works quickly
>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 00:40:32 EDT
>From: Ratchet107@aol.com
>Subject: Quick Ferment??
>
>I have just prepared a batch of Lips Lager (made as an ale) using edme dry
>yeast, carefully pitched into the wort at 75 degrees F.
>The vigorous primary ferment lasted for about 12 hrs when it rapidly tapered
>off and almost stopped after only 36 hrs. The temp in my appt. is usually
I've used EDME quite a lot and it tends to get going in a hurry and finish
its job pretty fast too. Let it sit for another 36-48 hrs. the vigorous
ferment occurs for 12-24 hrs, then it very slowly ferments for the last
2-3 days.
jc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 10:29:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Helles BOck
> Subject: Helles bock recipe requested
>
> I am trying to formulate a recipe for a Helles Bock.
>
> This is what I've come up with so far.
>
> 4 gal batch(fits nicely into friDge):
>
> 7 lb - Great Western 2-row (mostly Klagus)
> 3 lb - Munich (german variety)
> .75 lb - Carapils
>Enough Mt Hood(because I have this variety) at start of boil for
about 25 IBUs
> Fermented with California Lager yeast at about 38F.
>
> Any advice(mashing tech., more or less of this, some of that, etc..) or
>additional recipes are welcome. I am shooting for the upper 60s for
an OG.
I think you are on the right track. I would mash at protein rest temp
(between 125 and 130 for 10-20 min), raise to 144 for a brief Beta rest,
15 min, then up to 152-154 for conversion. Mash off at 170, lauter
at 170. I would strongly advise against the California Lager yeast.
Use a clean (very) German lager yeast like Weihenstephan 34/70 (I
dont know the wyeast number). You need to complete primary ferm at
48F prior to reducing to the low 30s for 6 weeks. This beer would
also improve with Pils malt instead of GW, but great beers can also
be made with GW or other US 2 row malts( lets drop the Klages/
Harringinton stuff, who cares???). Hood works well in this beer.
Be very careful to avoid caramelization reactions in the mashing
and boiling of this beer, you want it light.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 10:45:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: VIALEGGIO@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Saison(al) query
State University of New York at Stony Brook
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5475
Victor Ialeggio
Music
516 632-7239
14-Jul-1994 10:39am EDT
FROM: VIALEGGIO
TO: Remote Addressee ( _homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com )
Subject: Saison(al) query
Any advice/imput re:addition of star anise/
orange peel/coriander to Belgian--Saison--
For 5 gal batch: how much, when (with
boil??, to steep?, in secondary?), how long?
TIA, e-mail fine. vialeggio@ccmail.sunysb.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 11:13:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK@FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: Bluebeery Ale recipe
Greetings all. A few weeks ago I mentioned that my wife and I picked
lots of brewberries (ha-ha). Due to overwhelming response, I hereby
submit my humble recipe for your use.
Rick's 1994 BlueBeery Ale
(partial mash recipe for six gallons, cuz five just isn't enough)
4 lbs pale malt
1/3 pound crystal malt
1/2 pound cara-pils malt
3 lbs light dried malt extract
1 lb honey
1 ounce Cascade hops (boil)
1/2 ounce Willamette hops (finish)
300 ml Yeast starter of Wyeast 1056 Chico Ale
Mash grains in 1.25 gallons of 77C water to bring temp to 69C. Hold at
69C for 1 hour until conversion is complete. Sparge grains with 1.5 gallons
of 77C water. Add dried malt extract, honey, and Cascades to the sweet
wort and boil for 1 hour. Turn off heat, add finishing hops and 1 pound
of frozen (handpicked) blueberries. Steep 15 minutes. Cool to
pitching temp, and bring volume to 6 gallons with water. Pitch yeast.
After 4 days, place 4 1/2 pounds of thawed blueberries into secondary
fermenter and rack beer over them. After seven days, I transferred
the beer to another carboy (a tertiary?), where I let it ferment out
a few more days until the hydrometer reading was steady. Bottle with
1 cup of corn sugar.
This beer has a great blueberry taste!! Last year I made a raspberry ale,
but I lost most of the flavor because I added the berries to the primary.
Adding the bulk of the fruit to the secondary will ensure a berry aroma
and taste! Notice I didn't worry about bugs on the berries (I just
washed the berries, that's all).
If you're not prepared to do a partial grain, you can substitute one can
of light malt extract for the pale malt. I like Alexander's Sun Country
Pale Malt extract because it's one of the lightest I've seen.
Hope you enjoy this! I can't wait until a snowy night in January when
I'll pop one of these and enjoy a taste of Summer!
Good luck, and have a frosty one for me!
Rick Gontarek
gontarek@ncifcrf.gov
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:29:42 EST
From: mdemers@ccmailpc.ctron.com
Subject: Re: Carboy Bunging Problem / Elk Mountain Ale Review
In response to the guy who got a stopper stuck in his carboy:
How about pouring some sort of chemical(s) into the carboy that
would eat that stopper for lunch? Maybe some of the chemically
enlightened HBDers out there can help on this one. (HCL?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, one other thing. I've seen a couple of references to the
AB Elk Mountain Ale in here lately. I had the opportunity to try it
last week (Portsmouth, NH) and must admit that it was pretty good.
Nice color, pretty decent hop aroma. All and all not bad coming from
the SwillMasters.
md
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:51:56 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Quick ferments, high temps, overcarbonated, S.G. thoughts, fruit flies, A/B, pumpernickel stout
From *Jeff* Renner
Dennis (Ratchet107@aol.com) is wondering about his quick ferment at 78^F
ambient. RDWHAHB, Dennis, but if you can cool the fermenting brew (water
bath, cellar, wet towels, etc.), do it next time. The rapid ferment is
entirely explainable by the high temp. and the fact that you pitched lots of
yeast (one of the advantages of dry yeast). But there are two potential
problems with the high temp. One, off flavors (e.g., harsh, fruity) from
higher alcohols (fusels) and their esters, and second, greater potential for
infections at higher temps, where the nasties like to grow. However, your
high yeast pitch rate likely pre-empted that. I'd never trash a brew until
I was really sure it was beyond hope. Except in the case of obviously
infected beer, that means after bottling and aging.
- -------
On a related topic, John Palmers friend's "wet dog" smelling brew. See
above. 78^F is tolerable, 90's is really asking for trouble, and he got it.
- -------
Continuing on the possible infection topic, Kevin Michael Savage asks "is
this infected? and gives his recipe which has resulted in overcarbonation
over time. The problem, Kevin, is the Laaglander DME, which has a high FG
due to barely fermentable sugars (notice, I did not say "unfermentable").
Wild yeasts and bacteria can convert these faster, but regular yeast will
over time. This is good for cask beers, where the continued CO2 production
is useful, but a problem in bottles over time. Make sure you are not
bottling too early, and consider changing to a different DME for long aging
beers. However, expect less mouth feel/body. Or drink it up sooner, or
refrigerate it after it's carbonated.
- -------
John Harres started off with the right amount of ingredients but got an OG
of only 1.020! A case of the missing gravity? No, a common problem. When
you topped off with ~3 gallons of water, it didn't mix thoroughly, and you
poured out an overdiluted sample. You have to really shake that carboy,
which also oxygenates the wort (good). RDWHAHB. Your "1 bloop per minute"
just means it's about done fermenting. This is a good time to rack to
secondary, while there is still protective CO2 production.
- --------
On a related S.G. question, John also says his hydrometer didn't come with a
temp. correction scale. Any beginning brewing book has these, and/or you
can cool the sample. Chris Pittock says he puts his in the fridge. Let me
suggest an ice water bath. I have two small stainless steel bowls, one
larger than the other. I put a cup of hot wort in the smaller one and ice
and water it the larger, put the smaller one in the larger and swirl. (In
the winter, I put the smaller one in a snowbank on the back deck but of
course, Canberra doesn't have that!) I can check the S.G. several times
during the sparge and boil, and this takes only a few minutes. Of course, I
wait for the *suspended* trub and/or hop pellets to settle out. Thanks,
Brendan Halpin, for pointing out that suspended particles *do* make at least
a theoretical difference. I second that.
- -------
Aaron Shaw worried about zoological zymurgy - fruit flies. And well you
should, Aaron. These guys eat fermenting/rotting fruit and the yeasts in
them, and they are attracted to fermentation. Like other good workmen, they
carry the tools of their trade from job to job. In their case, yeast and
bacteria on their feet from spoiled fruit to your beer. Years ago, my son's
nursery school class went to an apple orchard. They each were allowed to
bring home an apple from the ground. He was so proud of it that he wouldn't
eat it, so it sat on the window sill. Little did we know that it was a
fruit fly Trojan Horse. By the end of the week, we had hundreds of them in
the house. Some got under the plastic wrap on my bowl of my sour dough
starter, which up until then had been mediocre. It took off, and was then
fantastically flavorful and active! You don't want this in your beer,
however. I'd definitely use a carboy with either a blowoff of airlock.
- --------
My 2 cents worth on the A/B controversy. One thing not mentioned is that
A/B beers are among the best made in the world (I did *not* say the best
beers in the world!) They could probably duplicate any beer they wanted,
and do it more consistently than the original brewers. They have probably
already done it in their pilot breweries. They have the best technical
support behind them and nearly unlimited capital. Perhaps we should be
grateful they haven't gone mano a mano with small craft brewers, they could
probably ruin some of them. OTOH, wouldn't it be great to have a Budvar
clone brewed regionally and distributed fresh, in, dare we hope, brown
bottles?
- --------
BTW, about 12 years ago I made an oatmeal stout that used about 15 % coarse
rye meal, also know as rye chop or pumpernickel meal, using a modified
C.J.J. Berry recipe. I suppose this was truly a Pumpernickel stout!
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 08:42:28 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271@appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Malt characteristics
In HBD #1476, Philip Gravel mentions that there is no malt FAQ. Too bad!
What is this body for if not for the supplying of information on
brewing? In order to alieviate this situation, I submit the 'fact' sheet
that I use when I'm thinking about which grains to use and their effects.
This may be used by anyone, and may form the nucleus of a malt FAQ, after
the body of the readers of the HBD have found and corrected any mistakes
or errors they find! Hey, I'm a big boy. I can take it...
Enjoy!
Rich Webb
p.s. I sent my hops sheet already (also in HBD1476), but my yeast info
is essentially the same as already appears in the yeast FAQ.
Malt Characteristics
1. PALE MALT
These malts produce a pale beer, and contain enough enzyme power to
convert the starches of grain
adjuncts, such as rice and corn, consisting of up to 50% of the mash
in some cases.
1.1. 6 row Lager malt 2 degrees L
This malt is kilned at low temperatures to preserve the color and
enzyme level. It typically has a high
protein content, and it has a thick husk which is rich in polyphenols
(tannins), which can lead to protein
haze and off flavors. It is high in enzymes, and is poorly modified
so it is best used with a program
temperature mash. It is well suited for using with wheat and other
unmalted adjuncts, such as corn and
rice, but no more than 25-50% of the mash. These adjuncts contain
no polyphenols, and very little
protein, and serve to lighten the flavor and body of the beer, resulting
in a light maltiness, such as is
found in lagers and pilseners.
1.2. 2 row Lager malt 2 degrees L
This malt is also kilned at low temperatures to preserve the color
and enzyme level. It can be lower in
enzyme and protein level than 6-row malt, but this quality depends
on the strain of barley used in the
malt. This malt is high in enzyme, and is poorly modified, so it
is best used with a program
temperature mash. It has a thinner husk than 6-row, thus lower polyphenol
and tannin content,
yielding less astringency. It's flavor is a light maltiness, and is
commonly used in European lagers and
other all malt beers.
1.3. Pale Ale malt 3 degrees L
This malt is most commonly associated with British ales, and has the
flavor characteristic of full
maltiness. It is fully modified, and has fewer enzymes, although it
has sufficient enzymes to allow up to
15% adjuncts in the mash. It is best for a low temperature infusion
mash. It has a lower haze potential,
and is less likely to produce DMS, which can lead to a 'sweet creamed
corn' aroma.
1.4. Wheat malt 2 degrees L
Wheat malt is a naked grain, in that it has no husk to add polyphenols,
and has a high protein content,
often causing protein haze. It is difficult to malt, and has practically
no enzymes, thus cannot convert
its own starch. Use of this malt leads to wonderful head properties,
and can yield a grainy, wheaty
taste. Belgian wheat beers typically use 10 - 30% wheat malt, and
some beers use as much as 75%
wheat malt in the mash.
2. HIGH KILNED MALT
These malts, which have been kilned at a temperature of around 220
degrees F, still contain enzymes,
although not to the degree as their pale malt cousins, thus they cannot
be relied on to convert the
starches of adjuncts. These grains also impart a deeper color and
fuller malt flavor and aroma than the
pale malts.
2.1. Mild Ale malt 4 degrees L
This malt gives a golden to amber colored wort, and dry, malty flavored
beer. Most uses of mild ale
malts in such styles as mild and brown ales and even dark ales require
additional dark specialty malts,
which will conceal any difference in flavor with the pale malts.
2.2. Lager malt
There are two varieties of these malts: Munich and Vienna.
2.2.1. Vienna 3 - 7 degrees L
This malt produces a full bodied, amber color brew with a noticeable
malt aroma. The malt itself has
only medium enzymatic power, and is commonly used in Dortmunders and
pale bocks.
2.2.2. Light Munich 10 degrees L
Dark Munich 20 degrees L
Munich malt is as aromatic as Vienna malt, but yields a darker reddish-orange
cololed brew with a
slightly sweet caramel flavor. This malt often comes in two different
grades, with the lighter grade
being more like Vienna malt. Use 5 - 20% dark munich in golden and
amber lagers, and 25 - 50%
malt in Munich dark and some bocks.
Specialty malts
These malts have little to no enzyme activity, but may contain residual
starches, which can be mashed
with grains that still have enzyme activity, or steeped to extract
their sugars and flavors. Do not boil
these grains! The starch hazes and astringency leached from these
grains can ruin an otherwise good
beer! Steeping and sparging temperature should not exceed 170 degrees!
3. Crystal malts
These malts have little or no enzyme activity, and cannot be relied
on to convert adjuncts.
3.1. Crystal (also called Caramel) malt 10-120 degrees L
The mashing and drying process used for this malt does not convert
all of the starches, leaving this malt
composed mostly of unfermentable sugars, which are further caramelized
by the kilning. The use of
this malt sweetens the beer with a caramel flavor, adds color to the
wort, and can aid head retention.
3.2. Dextrin (also called Cara-pils) malt 7 degrees L
The low temperature of kilning for this malt does not lead to the
darkening of the husk or the
caramelization of the sugars in the malt as is the case with crystal
malt. Use of this malt adds
smoothness, sweetness, and body, without affecting the color of the
wort, and aids in head retention
and body. Most commonly used as 3 - 15% of a mash for light ales and
lagers.
4. Roasted malt
These high temperature kilning malts are not stewed as in other malt
types. Rather they are dried and
roasted to a particular color. The heat and the duration of the kilning
determine the color and flavor of
the malt.
4.1. Amber malt 30 degrees L
Used in a few amber, dark, old and nut brown ales, this British malt
is similar to Mild Ale or Vienna
malt, but has more color and a biscuit like flavor, with no enzyme
activity. It is recommended that
amber malt should consist of less than 15% of the mash.
4.2. Brown malt 65 degrees L
Brown malt is traditionally used in dark ales, and is kilned over
a hardwood fire, imparting a smoky
flavor. Use in 2 - 10% of the mash for bocks, porters, and stouts.
4.3. Chocolate malt 350 degrees L
This malt has a smooth, dark roasted flavor, and it's brownish black
color lends its use in dark ales,
such as mild ales, stouts, and porters, as well as some dark lagers,
such as Oktoberfests and bocks.
4.4. Black (also Black Patent) malt 530 degrees L
Roasted to a darker color than chocolate malt, the sharper, burnt
acidic flavor is often inappropriate
for dark lagers, but can be used in some dark ales. This flavor is
often the reason to use black malt
instead of chocolate malt.
4.5. Roast Barley 530 degrees L
This isn't a malt at all, but barley which has been roasted before
the malting process has begun. It's use
is similar to chocolate and black malt, but the flavor is different,
more of a sharp burned character.
Roast barley is the defining taste of dry stout, and can be used in
other dark ales as well.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1477, 07/16/94
*************************************
-------
