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HOMEBREW Digest #1487
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/07/28 00:53:02
HOMEBREW Digest #1487 Thu 28 July 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Strike temp (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
Re: Fridges as heaters! (Tel +44 784 443167)
Does hops hop? (lavist)
Sheaf Stout recipe query (Jim Sims)
Cleaning Carboys (Bob Fawcett)
Origin of word "hop" (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Hold the Citrobacter (TJWILLIA)
M. Garetz and Hop Utilization (cmorris)
All-grain newbie, other misc stuff (GONTAREK)
Pressure differences (Robert H. Reed)
Roasting Brown Malt (cg0scs)
hydrometer corrections (Mark Bunster)
Using Licorce Sticks (Chris Strickland)
Please resend ("OAKQM3")
Re: Cleaning carboys (Jim Grady)
yeast propagation (Jason Sloan)
Re: Anchor, Steam, Fritz Maytag (Jeff Frane)
madison brewpubs (jehartzl)
Re: Filling a C02 tank... do it yourself?? (djt2)
mixing of ferment (Jeffrey A. Ziehler)
Out on Business (via the vacation program)
Please Resend ("OAKQM3")
Please Resend ("OAKQM3")
away from my mail (via the vacation program)
******************************************************************
** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27
** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
** or cancellations.
******************************************************************
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If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
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mail from listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
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Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 18:00:01 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Strike temp
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen
Hiya
Thanks to everyone again for your answers to my questions about
strike temps in infusion mashing etc. I guess I should get one
of those thread search programmes for old HBD issues (But I ain't
Gott ;-) no PC though) coz it seems most of the info had already
been discussed in the past, so as a pointer to info about the
thermodynamics of calculating strike temps I refer you to an
article (which Rick kindly sent to me) in HDB #1207 by Kelly
Jones.
If you want me to send you the info then I'll be pleased to do
so.
Kelvin (kelvink@mtu.edu) also sent me some nifty info on infusion
mashing that any newbies out there (like me) to all grain might
like, if you want it then gimme a buzz (if there is enough
interest I will see about posting it instead of mailing if that
is ok by Kelvin). Apparently some of the info was supposed to be
going into a "Mash FAQ", has anyone seen hide nor hair of that
beasty? Might be a good thing to have at an ftp site like Sierra.
Aidan
- --
Aidan Heerdegen
e-mail: aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:03:52 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland@rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Fridges as heaters!
In HBD 1486, ANDY WALSH <awalsh@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Has anyone considered using a fridge to keep your fermenting
> beer warm in winter?
>
I made use of the heat from the heat exchanger on the
back of my fridge-freezer by accident. The first place I
had a few years back was quite small and the only place to
ferment my beer was in a corner in the kitchen beside the
fridge-freezer. It wasn't until the weather turned a bit
colder that I realised the corner was always quite warm
from the heat exchanger. The thing was quite inefficient
and would switch on for long periods of time so gave off
some reasonable heat. Of course, this obviously made my
electricity bill a bit higher but kept my beer happy.
Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 08:06:56 EDT
From: lavist@cc.tacom.army.mil
Subject: Does hops hop?
Jim Grady and his 5 year old son ask:
Why do they call it hops if it doesn't hop off?
The name "hop" comes from the German word "hopfen". It is
only pluralized as "hops" because "hop" refers to a single
ripe cone of the "Humulus Lupulus" plant. Only the female
flowers produce the cones used in beermaking.
Just tell your son to help them "hop off" and I'm sure he
will be happy to harvest your hops!
lavist@cc.tacom.army.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 08:52:31 EDT
From: sims@scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: Sheaf Stout recipe query
Anyone have a recipe for Sheaf Stout? It's a ~Guiness thing...
tia,
jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 09:22:41 EDT
From: Bob Fawcett <bobf@gulfaero.com>
Subject: Cleaning Carboys
Domenick Venezia writes
> I've found, as undoubtably many others have, that a cup of bleach in 5
> gallons allowed to stand in the glass carboy for a few days (a week if you
> have the time) will dissolve the crud stuck to the glass.
I've been using "Electrosol" automatic dishwashing soap. A little in the
carboy and fill it with the sink sprayer, let sit overnight , and everything
rinses out in the morning. This seems to work better than bleach for me.
Bob Fawcett
Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
P.O. Box 2206 M/S A-05
Savannah, GA 31402
(912) 965-3773, (912) 965-3820 FAX
bobf@gulfaero.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:26:30 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu
Subject: Origin of word "hop"
The Oxford English Dictionary has this to say, which sort of begs the
question:
hop ho+p, sb.1 Also 5-6 hoope, hopp, 5-7 hoppe, 6 hope. In 15th
c. hoppe, a. MDutch hoppe, Dutch hop = late OHG. hopfo (MHG. hopfe,
Ger. hopfen); med.L. hupa (for *huppa); ulterior origin obscure.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:29:32 EDT
From: <TJWILLIA%OCC.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Hold the Citrobacter
Jeff Michalski wrote:
*Citrobacter is a gram negative rod-shaped bacteria of the Enterobacteriaceae
*family. Its name is derived from the fact that can use citrate as its sole
*carbon source. It is not known to give "citrus" flavors in beer. It is an
*opportunistic human pathogen and its presence in food or drink can give a
*(susceptible) individual diarrhea and rarely sepsis, a fatal blood infection.
Whoa! Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it cited through various HB sources
that nothing (bacteria, fungi, etc.) dangerous (read "pathogenic") can survive
in beer? Sure, you may end up with really lousy tasting brew, but running to
the crapper or being buried following a fatal blood infection are far removed
from the *safe* aspects of this hobby. I appreciate the attempts to shed some
light on the subject, but taking the extreme position "watch out, your mistakes
may kill you," does nothing to promote this exciting, and IMHO *SAFE*, hobby.
(BTW: I'm I the only one who noticed this?)
Tom Williams
tjwillia@occ.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:38:56 PDT
From: cmorris@orv.mitre.org
Subject: M. Garetz and Hop Utilization
I would like to thank Mark Garetz for his contribution to the literature
available to the homebrewer. His book "Using Hops" is an excellent
reference on a broad spectrum of questions concerning hops and
brewing. My question for the net is to ask if anyone has started using
the "Boil-time utilization" numbers that Mark recommends. Based on my
experience (and biases), Mark's numbers for hop utilization in the boil
are quite low. Further, many other references seem to be at odds with
or contradict Mark's numbers.
For example, the table below lists the results computed with a
spreadsheet that replicates the hop calculations as discussed in George
and Laurie Fix's book on Vienna beers. The calculations are based on a
typical Vienna with a brewlength of 18.9 liters, Target OE of 13 P, and
Target IBU of 25 (mg/L). This "typical" beer assumed three hop
additions with 60, 30, and 15 minute boil times and alpha-acid fractions
of 0.04, 0.05, and 0.03 respectively. Given these brew specs., the only
parameter allowed to vary in the spreadsheet was the boil-time
utilization values - which were taken from the authors indicated in the
column headings of the table. Note that for Garetz's numbers I did one
calculation with CA = 1 so that "boil-time only" results could be
compared with the other author's numbers. In the third column (where CA
was not assumed to be equal to 1), the adjustment factors included are
the Gravity Factor (GF), Hop Rate (HF), and the Temperature Factor (TF).
Fix Rager Garetz Garetz w/CF =1
Total Hops [g] 63.80 70.9 209.7 182.7
Total Hops [oz] 2.25 2.5 7.4 6.4
The question I must raise here is that while the Rager and Fix
utilization rates might not have been optimal - is it possible that
they were off by a factor of 200% to 220% ???
Observation: Where Mark's boil time numbers have a significant impact
on hop weight calculations are in the additions with 0-15 min. boil
times. It is "commonly" accepted that these late additions are done to
enhance the hop aromatic content of the beer - aromatics that are
evaporated off with longer boil times. The bulk of the literature prior
to Mark's book however, has assumed that "some" isomerization still
takes place at these shorter boil times. Fix for example, assumes a 10%
utilization rate and Rager assumes an 8% rate for additions with 15 min.
boil duration. If one chooses (as the Fix's suggest in some of their
recipes) to have 15% of the total iso-alpha acids in a beer be
contributed by the 15 min. addition, it is not hard to show that their
addition must increased by 360% - if one uses Mark's utilization
numbers. For a Vienna I suggest this will result in a hop nose
completely out of character for the style.
My point here is not to refute Mark's boil-time utilization numbers.
Rather it is to point out that if they are correct then one must
take much more care in planning when hop additions are to take
place to get the desired balance of bitterness and aromatics.
At least more planning than has been suggested by the HB literature
in the past. Mark's book touches on this point -(but there could
have been more - see chapter 9, pg. 152).
It seems we might need a "when-to-add vs. style" table. Perhaps
in a later edition of the book - Mark?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 11:14:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK@FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: All-grain newbie, other misc stuff
Greetings all. I am a relative newcomer to the world of all-grain,
but I was so very happy with my first batch that I will continue
brewing beers from scratch! Anyway, this past weekend I made a golden
ale with 8.5 lbs of pale malt and a bit of crystal malt (2 ounces).
I did a single-step infusion mash for one hour, and then I sparged
with a simple lauter tun fashioned from two buckets, one with
lots of drilled holes. But I wound up with an OG of 1.030!!
I was indeed majorly bummed. The first time I did an all-grain
I wound up with an extraction efficiency of around 25 pts/lb/gallon,
so you can see that I've taken a giant step backwards.
Would doing a decoction mash or mashing for a longer
period of time help my extraction? BTW, I used Klages 2-row pale
malt that was crushed with a Corona. I don't have the time and/or
space for lots more equipment, so I would appreciate hearing
from anyone on how I could improve my extraction efficiency
without too much extra trouble. TIA to everyone!
Regarding yeast culturing for the home brewer: I
have made some malt/agar plates for growing some yeast, but they
tend to run. Adding more agar didn't help. I am a biologist
with accesss to lots of LB plates, so I was wondering if anyone
has cultured yeast on these plates. I tried it once on an
LB plate, but was surprised when it took three days at 30 degreesC
for any colonies to show up. What's the trick?
Also, does anyone have a good all-grain recipe for
"Pete's Wicked Ale"? I'd like to make something similar. I thought
about about 9 or 10 lbs of pale malt, about a pound of Crystal
malt, and about 1/2 pound of chocolate malt. Cascades? Would
Wyeast 1056 do the trick? Thanks to anyone with some advice and
experience.
Good brewing to you all, and thanks for the help!
Rick Gontarek
Brewer/Biologist
Owner of the Major Groove Picobrewery, Baltimore, MD
gontarek@ncifcrf.gov
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:24:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Pressure differences
Domenick asks:
>
> My regulator low pressure gauge and my bleeder valve gauge disagree by
> about 2 lbs. Which, if any, should I believe? Does it matter? What do
> those 2 screws on the back of the gauge do? Adjustments perhaps?
Does your regulator have a check valve? If so, this may explain a delta
pressure between your keg and regulator output. Isn't the accepted
pressure drop in these valves about 2 psi? Is your regulator reading
2 psi higher than bleeder or vise-versa?
> You know, this kegging stuff is pretty fun. I mean I get to play with
> hoses and gauges and connects and high pressure gas. Filling a keg for
> the first time just feels dangerous. It's almost as much fun as playing
> with electricity.
Dittos. It's a truly beautiful thing...
-Rob Reed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:34:00 +0100 (BST)
From: cg0scs <G.A.Cooper@greenwich.ac.uk>
Subject: Roasting Brown Malt
I have seen the odd request for info on roasting your own malt to
produce Amber and Brown malts. The following is reproduced from the
appendices of the Durden Park Old British Beers book. If you wish you
may reproduce this provided you acknowledge the source (as is usual).
Do you want this in the archives at Sierra?
Home Roasting Pale Malt to Pale Amber, Amber and Brown Malt
-----------------------------------------------------------
Some ingredients needed to make OLD BEERS might not readily be
available, in particular pale amber, amber and brown malts. All
three can be made by roasting pale malt in a normal domestic oven as
described below. Carapils with a colour number of 25 can be used as
a substitute for pale amber. However, carapils has little diastatic
activity and, as with any low activity grain, eg. roast barley,
brown malt, amber malt, it should not exceed 45% of the total grist,
the balance being pale malt. Carapils, however, might only be
available by bulk purchase direct from maltsters.
Roasting Method
- ---------------
Line a large baking tin with aluminium foil, and pour in pale malt
to a depth of 12 mm (1/2 inch). Place in the oven (preferably fan-
stirred) at 100 C (230 F) for 45 minutes to dry out the malt, then
raise the temperature to 150 C (300 F). After a further 20 minutes
remove 6 or 7 corns from the tray, slice across the centre with a
sharp knife and compare the colour of the starchy centre with that
of a few pale malt corns. The pale malt is almost pure white; for
pale amber the colour should be the palest buff, just noticeably
different from the pale malt. Continue heating until this colour is
obtained, usually about 30 minutes.
For amber malt, continue heating until the cut section is distinctly
light buff, usually 45 to 50 minutes. If brown malt is needed, raise
the temperature at this point to 175 C (350 F) and wait until the cut
cross-section is a full buff, i.e. about the colour of the paler
types of brown wrapping paper. When the correct colour has been
reached, remove the tray from the oven, allow to cool and store the
roast grain in an air-tight screw-top jar (large kilner jars are
ideal). If used soon after production, the flavour imparted by home-
roasted grain is superior to bought grain.
The roasting times given above are intended only as a guide to
producing the wanted roast grain Practical tests on the oven
available will enable home-brewers to adjust the time and
temperature to produce the colour needed.
Crystal malt, which is usually available, has about the same colour
potential as brown malt but a more caramel-like flavour.
<end>
The following has not made it into the the appendix yet but ....
For those who are interested in retaining diastatic activity, subsequent
(informed) experiments have shown that a longer time drying the grain at
a lower temperature helps protect the enzymes. The following will produce
a diastatic Pale Amber.
Set the oven at 70-75 C (160-170 F) and put in the tray of grain (the grain
bed can be a little deeper - up to 1.5 inches, say) and leave for 2 hours
to dry out the grain. Raise the temperature to 88-94 C (190-200 F) for
30 mins then to 110-115 C (230-240 F) for a further 30 mins. Check the
colour as above. If insufficient colour, then check at 15 min intervals.
If after 1 hour at this temperature, colour has not been achieved, raise
to 120-125 C (250-260 F) and continue to check at 15 min intervals. The
resultant Pale Amber should be able to mash itself.
For Amber malt, after the grain has spent 1 hour at 110-115 C (230-240 F)
raise the temperature to 127-132 C (260-270 F) and check colour every
15 mins.
*** And note: these diastatic darker grains will be more acidic than normal
pale malt and if large proportions are used in a mash you might have to
make an allowance in you water treatment.
I hope that helps. Good mashing.
Geoff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 12:03:33 EDT
From: mbunster@hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster)
Subject: hydrometer corrections
Hope this isn't a FAQ--
Most hydrometers are accurate at 60 deg F. Papazaion mentions this, but does
not note how to correct for temperature. Does the SG shift upward with
higher temperatures, or downwards? Does anyone have a formula for
conversion based on temperature, or at least deviation from base temp?
Thanks--our "what's left in the cabinet" brown ale is bubbling nicely.
PS--Without a blowoff tube in the primary, what's a safe and effective
way to remove krausen gunk from the sides of the fermenter before it
sinks back into the wort?
Or is it better to just endure the fusels until we get a blowoff?
- --
Mark Bunster |I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Survey Research Lab--VCU |
Richmond, VA 23284 |Adam Smith's invisible hand
mbunster@hibbs.vcu.edu |has got you by the throat...
(804) 828-8813 | Trotsky Icepick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 13:08:52 -0400
From: stricklandc@cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Using Licorce Sticks
I'm going to make a porter using a licorce stick. When should I put the
licorce stick in?
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland | Allin1: stricklandc |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician | Email : stricklandc@cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jul 1994 02:36:25 U
From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3@oakqm3.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Please resend
Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1486 (July 27, 1
!!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!!
HOMEBREW Digest #1486 Wed 27 July 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Cleveland Brewpubs (Bill Rust)
Re: Nope, it's oak\ (Phil Miller)
BREWPUBS/GRANT'S (chuck.webb)
Offensive sig lines (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
BruProbe/Hops question (Jim Grady)
Revival porter (HOMEBRE973)
sanitization, lauter, wheat (Mark Gugel)
Re:"Beer club" problems (djt2)
Gott alternative (TODD CARLSON)
Whining / Hot Liquor Tank (npyle)
RE: BREWPUBS WASH DC AREA (Robert.Fike)
San Diego Brew Pubs (x-4378)" <Simpson@po2.rb.unisys.com>
Dampf/Bacteria (Andrew Patrick)
Please help, which yeast to use? (EASCHN01)
GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST ---sorry, sold out--- (uswlsrap)
("Erica Carlson")
Bottle Carbonation Problems (Robert H. Reed)
Home Brewer's Compan'n (Charlie Papazian/Boulder)
Cleaning glassware (Domenick Venezia)
Re: Cleaning Carboys ("Upward, not Northward!")
Kegs, Shafted by St Patrick ("Mark Fredrickson")
To drink, or not to drink... (DARREN TYSON)
In defence of Igloos (ANDY WALSH)
Fridges as heaters! (ANDY WALSH)
Homebrewing in the UK (again) (Simon W. Bedwell)
Richmond, VA brew pubs (Gorman)
mixing ferment ("Harold R. Wood")
Information on Champaign, IL (DARREL SANDALL)
Newbie kegger question (Domenick Venezia)
Wyeast #1338 concensus (Domenick Venezia)
******************************************************************
** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27
** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
** or cancellations.
******************************************************************
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 19:39:00 -0640
From: bill.rust@travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: Cleveland Brewpubs
Just a quickie! Anyone out there know of any brewpubs in Cleveland, OH. I'm
going to a wedding in August, and I am looking for creative ways to fill a
small amount of spare time (yes, we already thought of catching a ball game).
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "If you ever go temporarily insane, don't shoot | BILL RUST |
| somebody, like a lot of people do. Instead try | Systems Analyst |
| to get some weeding done, because you'd really | |
| be surprised. | --=_=-- |
| | |
| JACK HANDEY | Shiloh, IL |
| Deep Thoughts | bill.rust@travel.com |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
- ---
~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~
- ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 20:48:52 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Nope, it's oak\
In reply to Erick Speckman's (sp?) question in 7/25's HBD, I must humbly say
that I did use the malto-dextrin as priming sugar. I din't worry, I relaxed,
I had a homebrew. I am told that there should not be a problem, except that
it
will ta
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 00:38:00 MST
From: homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1486 (July 27, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Apparently-To: "Paul_Ingersoll-R17164@email"
<paul_ingersoll@oakqm3.sps.mot.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 14:25:40 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady@hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning carboys
I use a 7 gal carboy for my primary and I get all that "primary gunk"
out with 1 to 2 Tbs of B-Brite in the carboy with 7 gal of hot water.
The gunk is quickly dissolved - usually in a few minutes, a bit longer
for stubborn stains. It is quite effective. I never use my
carboy brush anymore.
In fact, this is about the only time I use B-Brite. I sanitize with
Clorox.
BTW, my wife used to make a paste with Cascade (the dishwashing
detergent, not the hops) for stains on the counters or stovetop that
could not be scrubbed out. Now she uses B-Brite.
- --
Jim Grady
grady@hp-mpg.an.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:03:24 -0400
From: aa3625@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Jason Sloan)
Subject: yeast propagation
I am aware that some microbreweries use cylindroconical vessels to
propagate their yeasts. I have seen one only once and that was
through plate glass. I was wondering how the yeast was propagated.
I have an idea but the question of autolysis comes directly to mind.
Will someone who knows please tell me? What other ways can a
brewery propagate their yeast?
TIA,
- --
Jason Sloan
sloan01?jason@cc01.mssc.edu or aa3625@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu
- ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 15:42:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Anchor, Steam, Fritz Maytag
Dick Dunn wrote:
>
> Even for Fred, who is *really* one of the old crowd, there was no "steam"
> beer in production in the US except for Anchor. As far as I've been able
> to find, Anchor has been the only producer of the Steam beer style at least
> since Prohibition--and we're now 61 years after repeal.
>
The question really is -- and perhaps Martin Lodahl is in the best
position to answer this -- whether Anchor really is a "steam" beer or
not. Is this the same beer that was brewed before the advent of
refrigeration or not? Judging from the few descriptions I've seen of
actual steam beers, I'd say *not*. Dave Miller makes the case that
Anchor is really a pale ale, and that in a blind tasting no one could
pick it out of a group of similarly-excellent pale ales. I snorted when
I first read that, but subsequent tastings have changed my mind.
> Some of it is a "who got there first" argument...
> It seems that Anchor established some reasonable right to use the term
> "steam" for their beer, quite a while ago, with no contention. In other
> words, it's not as if they muscled their way up to the bar with Armani-clad
> lawyers as bodyguards and said "the name is ours now; shove off". Rather,
> they simply made the ONLY steam beer in the US for so long that they came
> to be associated with, and eventually to own, the name. There wasn't any
> competition; they got the moniker because they earned and used it, and
> nobody else did, for many decades. Remember, we're not talking '80's
> neo-brewing here; Fritz Maytag was THE pioneer of modern microbrewing.
>
We're also talking about someone who has a good deal of money to throw
at lawyers if need be. Of course, in Anchor's case, the mere *threat*
of a lawsuit would be enough to warn off anyone who wanted to fight the
issue.
>
> > 2) For a long time a beer named Anchor has been brewed in Singapore and
> > Malaysia...[saga deleted]...beers disappeared...
> > ...and when they came back there was no more Anchor.
> > Was this because of Mr. Maytag?
>
> Well, why don't you find out and tell us? The question you raise, even if
> it's a good one (and likely, as trademark law goes) is still innuendo, with
> nothing to support it. "This beer went away years ago" isn't much to go
> on. It could be...but a shred of evidence would be comforting.
>
It isn't innuendo, it's fact. I had it several years ago from the
distributor. Actually, the Anchor from SE Asia wasn't very exciting,
and for beer drinkers not much of a loss, but it really was a trademark
issue and Maytag prevailed, probably without any court time.
What's more greatly missed is the truly spectacular ABC Stout the
brewery made, but the fault is their own. At one time, the beer was
bottle-conditioned, about 1.065 and incredibly creamy but they
apparently felt the need to compete with the locally-brewed Guinness and
changed the recipe -- for the worse.
> Just so. And, does anyone know whether Maisel "Dampf" is still imported
> under that name? ("Dampf" is the German word for "steam".)
>
Me, I just want to find some more Maisel Dampfbier -- which they
considered a sort of modern altbier. Wonderful stuff, but I haven't
seen any in Oregon in more than 5 years.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:07:28 -0600 (CST)
From: jehartzl@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu
Subject: madison brewpubs
i am one of those lucky enough to have purchased tickets for the great
taste, in madison wisconsin on august 20th, before they sold out. if any
one knows of any good brewpubs in the area please respond either to my
address or the HBD. thank you in advance.
jeh
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Hartzler 2540 Student Health Services
jehartzl@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-2540
=====================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:26:59 -0400
From: djt2@po.cwru.edu
Subject: Re: Filling a C02 tank... do it yourself??
Ok, maybe this won't apply to everyone, but we have a 350# tank of liquid
CO2 at work all of the time, and the thought of driving downtown and paying
$15 to get 5# of CO2 irks me.
Any thoughts on whether I could fill my own cylinder from our liquid tank?
The fittings seem trivial, the big tank has a "liquid out" valve that is
just like the "in" port on the cylinder. If it weren't for the thought of
the big KABOOM and three orphans at home I'd just do it myself.
Do I worry too much?
dennis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 17:32:50 CDT
From: Jeffrey A. Ziehler <ziehler@post.its.mcw.edu>
Subject: mixing of ferment
I am a Yeast biochemist and the reason we mix (stir) our fermentations
is to achieve good aeration of the culture. Yeast are facultative
anaerobes (they can grow with or without O2). They simply grow much
better with oxygen (generate many more ATP/glucose in presence of O2).
This is due to the Krebs (citric acid) cycle and oxidative phosphorylation.
Just remember, O2 in beer after the ferment takes off is a Bad Thing(tm).
Jeff
or He who knows that the origins of biochemistry are in beer.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:29:55 +0800
From: giraffe@ayla.Eng.Sun.COM (via the vacation program)
Subject: Out on Business
Hi Folks,
I am out of the office Wednesday, July 28th to September 6th,
on SunSoft business. I am available by pager at 1-800-254-9607
(direct) or 1-800-759-7243 w/ pin # 2549607.
Jennifer Levy will be in contact with me often, so please call her
if you have an urgent need. Her extention is x64966.
My itinerary is as follows:
7/28 8/2 Taiwan
8/2 8/8 HK
8/8 8/12 Sing
8/12 8/15 Sydney
8/15 8/19 Canberra
8/19 8/29 Sydney
I am also be reached at the below hotels:
Sheraton Hong Kong Hotel & Towers
20 Nathan Road, Kowloon, Hong Kong
Tel: 852-732-6064
Fax:852-312-1956
Shangri-La Hotel
Orange Grove Road, 1025, Singapore
Tel: 65-275-0100
Fax:65-275-0355
Grand Hyatt Taipei
2 Sung Shou Road
Taipei, Taiwan
Tel: 2-720-1234
Fax: 886-2-270-1111
Lakeside Hotel
London Circuit, 2600 City Center
Canberra, Australia
TEL: 61-6-247-6244
Fax:61-6-257-307
The Regent of Sydney
199 George Street
Sydney, NSW 2000, Australia
TEL: 61-2-238-0000
Fax:61-2-251-2851
Thanks for your patience,
Ann
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 1994 02:50:04 U
From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3@oakqm3.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Please Resend
Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1485 (July 26, 1
!!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!!
HOMEBREW Digest #1485 Tue 26 July 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
homebrew mail-order blues ("JSDAWS1@PROFSSR")
mail-order home-brew blues ("JSDAWS1@PROFSSR")
General thoughts.. (m.bryson2)
Anchor and trademark stuff (Dick Dunn)
Phil Miller's Offensive SIG line (BILL_MARKS)
Bacteriology ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
Kegging Beer (rnarvaez)
Wort Volume Reduction Tip (Phil Brushaber)
corny (soda) keg o-rings, where to get 'em cheap (24-Jul-1994 2239 -0400)
(Douglas Thompson)
Low carbonation levels ?? (Paul Jeffrey)
Strike water temp (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
beer machine help (fwd) (kain)
brewing lagers (Tim Lawson)
Open Fermenters/sanitation (Jim Busch)
Re: In Gott's Name ... (-: (Dion Hollenbeck)
Raking the Lauter (Jim Busch)
Bacteria (Brian Wurst)
Hello Roger (Bob Jones)
Head retention with home malted wheat (Nancy.Renner)
apolofy ("JSDAWS1@PROFSSR")
Mac Digest browsers. (Spencer.W.Thomas)
In Gott's Name ... (-: (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Keg O-ring results... (abaucom)
Billowing clouds of yeast and sediment (huffmand)
Vanilla in Porter / New England Beer (R. Keith Frank)
Re: Brew Pubs in San Diego (hanna)
Maryland Brewpubs & Homebrewshops ("" )
Bock, the Book (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Cleaning glassware (KWH)
Initial results for on-demand Krauesening (Jack Skeels)
Washington DC Area Pubs/Clu ("Scott Majdecki")
******************************************************************
** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27
** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
** or cancellations.
******************************************************************
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Jul 1994 16:07:16 PST
From: "JSDAWS1@PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1@PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: homebrew mail-order blues
Mail-order buyer beware
I just had a thourally unpleasant experience with a newer Brew
mail-order business, the 'Brew Club' in Santa Cruz. I placed a
fairly large order which included a carbonator (CO2 fitting for a PET
bottle). When I got the order, I noticed I'd been overcharged for
this item ($10 in catalog.. $13 on invoice) I called to inquire and the
woman who always answers said that their supplier had raised his prices
and I could either accept it or mail it back (at my expense). I decided
to keep it. A week later I tried it and found it to be defective, altho
it made a wonderful beer super-soaker :(. I called back and she said
that the whole batch was defective and she'd send a replacement. This
too was defective but this time when I called I was told that I would
have to return it (at my expense) to get a replacement. I did, and when
I called a week later to confirm receipt I was told that since I'd only
returned one, that no further refunds would be given. I told her I
wasn't aware that she'd wanted the original, at which point she began
whining about her problems with her supplier. I suggested that if her
supplier was more important than her customer, perhaps she was in the
wrong business. She said tough shit, and I wou
- ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 00:51:43 MST
From: homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1485 (July 26, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Apparently-To: "Paul_Ingersoll-R17164@email"
<paul_ingersoll@oakqm3.sps.mot.com>
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 1994 03:00:09 U
From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3@oakqm3.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Please Resend
Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1485 (July 26, 1
!!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!!
HOMEBREW Digest #1485 Tue 26 July 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
homebrew mail-order blues ("JSDAWS1@PROFSSR")
mail-order home-brew blues ("JSDAWS1@PROFSSR")
General thoughts.. (m.bryson2)
Anchor and trademark stuff (Dick Dunn)
Phil Miller's Offensive SIG line (BILL_MARKS)
Bacteriology ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
Kegging Beer (rnarvaez)
Wort Volume Reduction Tip (Phil Brushaber)
corny (soda) keg o-rings, where to get 'em cheap (24-Jul-1994 2239 -0400)
(Douglas Thompson)
Low carbonation levels ?? (Paul Jeffrey)
Strike water temp (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
beer machine help (fwd) (kain)
brewing lagers (Tim Lawson)
Open Fermenters/sanitation (Jim Busch)
Re: In Gott's Name ... (-: (Dion Hollenbeck)
Raking the Lauter (Jim Busch)
Bacteria (Brian Wurst)
Hello Roger (Bob Jones)
Head retention with home malted wheat (Nancy.Renner)
apolofy ("JSDAWS1@PROFSSR")
Mac Digest browsers. (Spencer.W.Thomas)
In Gott's Name ... (-: (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Keg O-ring results... (abaucom)
Billowing clouds of yeast and sediment (huffmand)
Vanilla in Porter / New England Beer (R. Keith Frank)
Re: Brew Pubs in San Diego (hanna)
Maryland Brewpubs & Homebrewshops ("" )
Bock, the Book (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Cleaning glassware (KWH)
Initial results for on-demand Krauesening (Jack Skeels)
Washington DC Area Pubs/Clu ("Scott Majdecki")
******************************************************************
** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27
** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
** or cancellations.
******************************************************************
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Jul 1994 16:07:16 PST
From: "JSDAWS1@PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1@PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: homebrew mail-order blues
Mail-order buyer beware
I just had a thourally unpleasant experience with a newer Brew
mail-order business, the 'Brew Club' in Santa Cruz. I placed a
fairly large order which included a carbonator (CO2 fitting for a PET
bottle). When I got the order, I noticed I'd been overcharged for
this item ($10 in catalog.. $13 on invoice) I called to inquire and the
woman who always answers said that their supplier had raised his prices
and I could either accept it or mail it back (at my expense). I decided
to keep it. A week later I tried it and found it to be defective, altho
it made a wonderful beer super-soaker :(. I called back and she said
that the whole batch was defective and she'd send a replacement. This
too was defective but this time when I called I was told that I would
have to return it (at my expense) to get a replacement. I did, and when
I called a week later to confirm receipt I was told that since I'd only
returned one, that no further refunds would be given. I told her I
wasn't aware that she'd wanted the original, at which point she began
whining about her problems with her supplier. I suggested that if her
supplier was more important than her customer, perhaps she was in the
wrong business. She said
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:16:17 +0800
From: John.Treacy@Eng.Sun.COM (via the vacation program)
Subject: away from my mail
I will be out of the office until Monday, August 22.
In order to avoid crashing my machine by filling up the file system
with email, your message has been redirected to /dev/null. If the subject
will still be relevant, please resend it when I'm back.
TeamWare issues should go to Jill Foley or Scott Hanham.
John Treacy
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1487, 07/28/94
*************************************
-------
