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HOMEBREW Digest #1495
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/08/08 00:52:46
HOMEBREW Digest #1495 Mon 08 August 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Random Notes from the Coyote! (COYOTE)
King Cookers (Arthur McGregor 614-0205)
illegal brewing ("Charles S. Jackson")
Brewing in California (Jack St Clair)
Youngs Ale Yeast (HOMEBRE973)
Japanese beetles (BILL O'NEILL)
brewpubs/events on North Shore during Aug (SPOD1)
Coyote-Cooker (COYOTE)
sparge and extraction (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Gas Cylinders (Kelly Jones)
Refractometer vs hydrometer? (GubGuy)
Hose end jar - counterflow cleaner? (Steve Peters x678)
Brewpubs/micros in N. California (Andrew J Donohue)
Kegging (Richard Buckberg)
exploding regulator / sleeping kegs (Bart Thielges)
Yeast and Beetles (Steve Scampini)
Origin of word "hop" (C. William Shirley)
sinking hops (dickerson)
Re: boiling over (John DeCarlo )
Re: Barrels (John DeCarlo )
Pressure Cookers as Home Autoclave for Yeast Propagation. (John DeCarlo )
Hops in yeast starter (Tim Lawson)
Re: New Papazian (Kristofer_Younger)
Mead fermentation times (FFRI)
Secondary Temp for Pale Ale w/#1098 (Midas Operator 3)
Re: More Mild Comments (Jim Busch)
yeast culturing ("Anton Verhulst")
agar plate sterilization (Mark Gugel)
Re: Hydrometer Corrections (Tim Ihde)
Foaming wort/one quadrillionth/New Papazian/next step? (Barry Nisly)
My comments about Beer Basics (bickham)
Finicky Beer Drinkers - Summary (DARREN TYSON)
Thanks/Vacuum Sealer for Hops?/Vollrath Pot? (michael j dix)
Troubleshooter? (Don Put)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 1994 10:40:16 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Random Notes from the Coyote!
Greetings one and all. It's been a while, but I'm still out here!
Only now I'm.... Mr. Wyllie (oh wait, I always was...) ah...but now there's
a Mrs. Wyllie! Yeah- that's it!
Tied the 'ol knot (and the ball and chain) on July 23rd.
Spent a few days in Jackson (Jackson Brewing Co.= nice brewpub.Good food/beer)
Now back to the homestead.
I must publicly apologize for all my harassment of people for whining
about how much time brewing takes, and how little free time they have.
I submit. Lifes a bitch! Homeownership is a taxing process!
BUT: My hop yard is blooming! The Brewery (pico) is not yet fully set up,
and I've only brewed one batch (an extract!) since moving in (mid-june).
BUT: I'm psyched (after catching up on a few hbds-) I'm gonna mash TODAY!
During which time I will wire lights, mow the lawn, water the garden..etc.
I have plugged in the fridge, and turn on the taps. I just need to plumb
a drain for my laundry sink in the garage, move a few things around and
the Cosmic Coyote Brewery will be in operation again!
Barneywine update: After a full half year of aging in the bottle it has
taken on a lushious full bodied, fruity bouquet. With a slightly bitter after
taste. Toot tried me an Old Crustacean the other day, and my WIFE commented,
"I like yours better" God I love that woman! I picked well!
THE HOP YARD: Update.
I now have eight varieties represented. They got a late start this season,
but that hasn't held back the 15 foot vines. They are loaded with burs,
and just starting into cone-age. This will be a small production year,
but at least there is the old cascade vine (last house) to harvest.
(the others over there are horribly underwatered, and LOADED! with mites)
My concept of hop poles, and stringers on pulleys seems to be working.
Unfortunately the Mrs. doesn't find great favor with the telephone pole garden.
I just smile (clenched teeth) and tell her to give it time. The vines will
fill in in the coming years! ("I just didn't realize they would be so BIG!")
20 feet is 20 feet. Just doesn't seem the same laying down!
For those that missed it, here's the system (and cost breakdown).
Went to a lumber yard and bought 21' lodgepole pine poles, treated
about 2' at the base with a diesel/cresote type solution (resists rotting)
Buried these in the ground and filled the hole with post mix (cement).
This had to be one of the WINDIEST days of the season. We got them in the
ground on a hot- early afternoon. By evening we had GUSTS! If they survived
that in not so hard cement, I'm sure they'll do FINE.
At the top of the pole if a double pulley. Rope is strung through,
down to the vine, and tied to a cleat on the pole. The concept here is that
I can lower the ropes to harvest the hops w/o trying to climb the 20' pole.
My problem will be in future years when the hops climb MORE than 20'.
I will be able to keep dropping the line, so the hops don't reach top. (!?)
Since my blushing wife was not a fan of the phone-pole garden "we"
opted not to put up a pole for each variety. There will be 4 total.
The "new" idea is to run guy-wires between the poles (10feet up) and drop
stringers to allow other varieties a place to climb. We also (I) plan to
erect a trellis/frame to have hops climbing all over (8-10') to create a
shaded sitting area.
Since some of the varieties are placed fairly close to one another
I sunk a 1'deep plywood board between them to create a barrier to crossovers.
Here's the cost/supply rundown (per variety basis):
Soil Prep: Tilled soil. Tilled in peat moss, organic compost, steer manure.
(Cost: aprox. $1-$2 per bag (cu/ft). ~ 1 bag per variety)= $5
Mulch: Covered with wood chips. Free from the dump. Then straw. Basically free
Pole: 21' lodgepole treated. $8.50. 2 bags Post mix/pole $5 = $13.50
Rope: ~100' for two rhizomes, 1 variety. $4 (1/4" sisal cord)
Hardware: Double pulley $2, cleat, $1. = $7
Total Cost per variety = about $25.
Additionally I got some bulk soaker hose and fittings to run a system where
I hook up at one end, and all the hops are watered at once. Only the hop
mounds get water, to keep the weeds down. I have plain hose streched from
mound to mound so there is little water waste. The hose is run under the
mulch, so very little is lost to evaporation.
OVerall I'm really pleased with the system (so far) and look forward to many
years of rewarding hop production, with very minimal additional effort.
I just wander through and wrap loose vines, and wait for harvest!
When I add it up- it was a fiar investment, but will be well worth the effort!
I wish I could draw a picture, or send a photo, but I'm sure this is too long
already. So drop me aline if you'd like more details.
Nice to know- the net goes on! Brew on everyone! Porter today!
Mr. and Mrs. John and Elaine Wyllie
144 East Center
Smithfield, UT. 84335
(801) 563-6295
Location of the NEW Coyote Brewery and Hop grounds!
(ps: the grapes and plums are doing well too! Wine anybody?)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 1994 13:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Arthur McGregor 614-0205 <mcgregap@acq.osd.mil>
Subject: King Cookers
Hi all,
In HBD 1492, Todd Little asked for info on King Cookers, and here's
where I bought mine:
I bought a King Cooker (model 90C ?) last weekend at a K-mart in
the Baltimore area, I was visiting in-laws. It costs $35.00, and is
rated at 200,000 BTUs! It lights up like a rocket engine! You can
adjust the flow of gas, so don't need to run at full throttle, and the
stand can support 20 gal of weight.
They had 2 other models, one for $69.00 and $45.00, both at
170,000 BTU. I also bought a 33 qt enameled cooking pot. I
believe that the $69.00 cooker comes with an aluminum
pot/steamer, and can be found cheaper at Home Depot style
hardware stores, and Price/Sams Club.
Also while visiting with in-laws for the day, one of them asked
"Did you bring any beer that tastes like _real_ beer, you know,
Budweiser?" That was ok, it just left more for me! :-)
Art McGregor (mcgregap@acq.osd.mil)
Ditto that Homebrew!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 12:51:24 CDT
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson@ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject: illegal brewing
hi again,
I sure hope that I didn't start open a bag of hornets. First let me
correct an error. My dyslexic mind allowed my fat fingers to type Colorado
when I meant to type Oklahoma. The data on AL, UT, and OK were from a piece
in the Birmingham paper from MArch 94. Miss data came from a bloke in that
state who said that he had just found out his activities were a'gin the law.
The CA stuff is something that I read recently (perhaps while treveling) but I
can't put my hands on it at the moment. I will continue to search.
This has sparked some interest and I plan to do a state by state
investigation about this. If anyone has first hand knowledge a reply would be
greatly appreciated. I will post a summary. Any brewing attorneys willing to
help?
There are brew shops here in Alabama that have no trouble but the
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board states that brewing would be treated like
moonshining or cannabis agriculture - a felony.
Steve
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 11:01:02 PST
From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair@ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: Brewing in California
Text item: Text_1
Well, I expect that Charlie S. Jackson (aka "The Alabama Outlaw) is
going to receive a lot of flack over his post in HBD#1492 stating that
it's illegal to brew in California. Sorry Charlie! Not only is it very
legal, it is VERY popular. There are brewpubs sprouting up all over the
state and every medium to large city has a Homebrew club and homebrew
supply shops are everywhere. I don't know where you got your info but
I'd recheck that source. You may have made thousands of California
homebrewers very sad indeed. Now they may have to go RDWHAHB to get
over this trauma.
BTW, I,m an ex california brewer who is now an Oregon brewer. Good luck
with the flack.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 94 14:03:13 EDT
From: HOMEBRE973@aol.com
Subject: Youngs Ale Yeast
I have recently started a bitter with some Youngs Ale yeast that someone gave
me. He informed me it was from the Yeast Culture kit Company and was
probably A17 but he wasn't sure. Does anyone
have any knowledge of Youngs Ale yeast from this company and possibly give me
some info. on what I should expect.
Also thanks to everyone who gave me info. about Scotland!
TIA,
Andy Kligerman
[
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 94 14:31:23 EST
From: BILL O'NEILL <billo@smtplink.copley.com>
Subject: Japanese beetles
A recent posting made an excellent point about trap plants. I think the
gentleman's name was Levine. He mentioned roses and grape vines as
attracting the Nippon Nasties and he's right. Even better though, is a
small weed that grows about a foot high, has a reddish stem and 2-3" sword
shaped leaves, and has a very small spike of whitish flowers. I'm sorry,
but the name escapes me, however it is very common and is mentioned on many
weed killer products. Japanese beetles will take to it over virtually
anything else, and will absolutely skeletonize it. Organic gardeners have
long used it as a trap plant.
Bill O'Neill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 94 15:05:57 EDT
From: SPOD1@aol.com
Subject: brewpubs/events on North Shore during Aug
Hello to all,
I'm a fairly new subscriber to HBD and recently discovered the archives at
sierra and am just now recovering from information overload, emerging a new
improved version of myself I hope, although I don't quite know what practical
impact all of this will have on my brewing habits; still have to deal with my
inherent laziness and shortage of money but to get to the point, I am
travelling to Boston soon, Aug 8-22, and although I lived there for several
years, I was completely oblivious of the subversive "brew" culture which
probably thrives in that pub-crawlin town, so now, I'd be interested in
hearing about especially good places to go drink or visit or participate
while I am there, especially on the North Shore, where I'll be weekends.
Thanks in advance for any help or info.
Latest favorite homebrew is a Ginger Beer, light and crisp with a strong
Chinook bitterness, a great summer drink.
take it easy and, well, you know...
Chuck.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 1994 10:50:17 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Coyote-Cooker
A quick note this time (besides my last message will probably be rejected!)
I've seen the Cajun Cookers in stores now. The fish fryer types.
They run about $40-$50, some even come with a deep fryer pot.
BUT: They look horribly flimsy compared to the Cache Cooker I got.
A couple people thanked me for pointing them toward the Camp Chef.
I have no connection, except for having bought a 2 burner myself.
But just wanted to say- the construction of the Cache cooker seems
a lot more solid, especially for those doing BIG boils...15gal etc!
I just saw an ad for the 1 burner for $40 and made me think I shoudl
give them a plug. Sorry if this is too commercial for some of you.
I just think they are a good deal, and someone told me that they
distribute through Fedco, and they are readily available.
I took mine to my bachelor party for some dutch oven cooking, and it
was a treat. I even use it in the garage for dinner sometimes.
It beats heating up the kitchen with the kind of summers we have!
Anyway...just a plug from a happy customer about a solid-well designed
product. Some of their units are low-pressure, leaving them with 30k btu
per burner, but they do make high pressure units too.
I know the King Kooker types are up towards 200k btu, but personally I
haven't had any problem getting quick boils with 10+ gallons in one pot.
Brew on everybody. Hope my hop update makes it in. I wish you could see
my arms waiving around as I describe it. It makes things clearer!
Now I just have to get some trumpet vines to climb of the backside, so
they don't look so bare and industrial through the winter! :)
Hasta John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P@cc.usu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 15:38:53 EDT
From: cem@cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: sparge and extraction
Having seen many aspects of brewing analyzed to the nth degree
here in the HBD, I was wondering if there is not some elaborate
calculation which would somehow equate sparge rate to extraction.
There have been all sorts of differential equations presented to
calculate many things, but when it comes to sparging and extraction
most people just say '... sparge slowly...". This seems very
unscientific. Certainly we can beat this into the ground with
advanced math!
I would expect it to be something like:
extraction = f(grain type, grain temp, geometry, water temp,
rate, crush?, ph, ...)
Anyone care to take a poke at this?
Extractingly yours,
ChuckM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 13:56:35 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones@ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Gas Cylinders
I am looking for information on gas cylinders. Is there any
difference (besides of course the regulator fitting) between a gas
used to store, say, air, or nitrogen, or CO2? It seems that since
most cylinders are used to store compressed gas at pressures as high
as 2300 psi, and since compressed (ie, liquified) CO2 is never higher
than something like 600 psi, just about any tank should be safe for
storing CO2. I have noticed that my CO2 tank has "CO2" stamped into
the metal.
If I were to buy (for example) a used scuba tank, with
valid hydro, and ask the local welding shop to fill it up with CO2,
would they? or is this against some sort of code/law?
Thanks,
Kelly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 94 16:30:40 EDT
From: GubGuy@aol.com
Subject: Refractometer vs hydrometer?
Does anyone have any experience with testing SG with a refractometer rather
than a hydrometer? I haven't seen anything about refractometers in any of my
brewing books. Years ago, I broke my hydrometer to my marine aquarium and
tried to adjust salinity therein with the refractometer, but it was a useless
effort; the SG's didn't match. It will be several weeks until I brew up my
next batch, and I plan on measuring SG both ways for comparisons. Anyone
interested in results? Or has someone already tested this theory (and will
tell how it came out, saving me the small effort invloved). I guess the
biggest advantage would be drops instead of ounces for measuring SG. Thanks
in advance for any thoughts on the subject.
Ray Ownby
GubGuy@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 16:25:44 EDT
From: peters@rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678)
Subject: Hose end jar - counterflow cleaner?
I thought I had a great idea for cleaning my counterflow chiller, but
I ran into a bit of a snag. I connected my Ortho Dial 'n Spray hose-end
lawn sprayer (never used for nasty chemicals) in line with the copper tube
and (obviously) my garden hose. I envisioned being able to dial a rate/gallon
of chlorine, soap, whatever through the chiller, followed by a long rinse
with hot water. Unfortunately, I found that the back pressure of 50' of 3/8"
copper tubing ruins any chance of the venturi from working, and the hose end
jar fills with water and overflows. Any ideas on how to make it work? How
about an expansion chamber on the output of the hose end jar? Any
physicists/brewers out there?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 17:51:16 EDT
From: andy2@hogpa.ho.att.com (Andrew J Donohue)
Subject: Brewpubs/micros in N. California
I'm vacationing in northern California soon ans was hoping
someone would have recomendations on good brewpubs and micros
with tap rooms or tours. I will be in San Francisco, Monteray
and the Yosemite area. TIA
Andy
andy2@hogpe.ho.att.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 15:10:51 -0700
From: Richard Buckberg <buck@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Kegging
Can anyone suggest good sources for used Cornelius or Firestone (or other
brand) used kegs? I'd be especially interested in places in the San
Francisco Bay Area. I'd like to get into kegging, and hesitate to spend
$200+ for all new gear.
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 10:41:46 PDT
From: bart@nexgen.com (Bart Thielges)
Subject: exploding regulator / sleeping kegs
Two questions :
1) The high side gauge on my regulator seems to have a problem. The
calibrated disk is warped outward so far that it pushed the needle
arm from its post. This happened once before, but not so severe
that it pushed the needle arm off. To fix it I removed the clear
plastic cover and pushed it back in place. I don't know whether
this problem is repairable. What causes this to happen ? Is
there anything I can do to avoid it ? The problem developed
while the regulator was attached to the CO2 tank and the main
valve of the tank was off. Shock is not the cause.
2) What's the HBD conscenus regarding storing Corny kegs on their sides ?
I don't have the right fridge configuration to store it upright,
so I was going to lay it sideways on the rack and remove it from
the fridge for serving upright. I have all new rubber seals and
the keg is force carbonated so I would assume minimal sludge.
OK, I lied, make that three questions :
3) Is there any problem with alternatively moving my keg from the fridge
to room temperature ? I'd like to chill the keg down when I
expect company, but don't want to leave it there all of the time.
Will a few (less than 5) temperature cycles harm the flavor ?
Thanks,
Bart Thielges
bart@nexgen.com <---- use this address rather than the return address
Brewing equipment destroyed since last message : 1 regulator gauge (maybe)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 21:37:20 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini@hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Yeast and Beetles
A quick note to also sing the praises for 1968 yeast. I made a pale
ale with it and was really impressed with the performance and the taste.
I am fairly new to this game and was tickled to see other, more
experienced brewers make note of this yeast. I did not "rouse" the yeast
and got great results, though it was very flocculant (that word always
strikes me as sort of perverse sounding).
On the subject of J. beetles...I to had heard the concerns about
attracting more than you catch and making the problem worse. I
am convinced that, at least for the garden and yard I have, the
traps are VERY effective and I would recommend giving them a try
before jumping on the poison bandwagon. I also have had some
experience with milky spore and very poor luck. One recent
post explained this.
Someone asked about canned beer for a party. How about some of those
5 liter jobs? I believe you can get some decent Eurobeers in these
containers. Also, IMHO, for just about any given beer, the canned
version tastes better than the bottles stuff because of the dreaded
UV/skunk factor (especially for those dumb green bottles).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 22:59:17 -0500
From: bshirley@titmouse.sccsi.com (C. William Shirley)
Subject: Origin of word "hop"
3hop n
[ME hoppe, fr. M; akin to OHG hopfo hop, OE sce_af sheaf - more at
SHEAF]
(15c)
1: a twining vine (Humulus lupulus) of the mulberry family with
3-lobed or 5-lobed leaves and inconspicuous flowers of which the
pistillate ones are in glandular cone-shaped catkins
2 pl: the ripe dried pistillate catkins of a hop used esp. to impart
a bitter flavor to malt liquors
3 slang: a narcotic drug; esp: OPIUM
-bill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 21:38:33 -0700
From: dickerson%eccx.dnet@esu36.ateng.az.honeywell.COM
Subject: sinking hops
I made an attempt at dry hopping yesterday by placing 41
sanitized marbles into my hop bag with 1 OZ of Cascade hops.
41 marbles in a hop bag do not go easily into a 5 gallon
carboy.
Unfortunately, that was not enough to sink the bag. Does
anyone have a suggestion for a better method for hop
submersion?
(insert your favorite acronym)
Jack Dickerson
Brewing with high temps in Phoenix
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 07:56:40 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo@homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: boiling over
From: "Malcolm Tobias" <mtobias@wurel.wustl.edu>
>Here's a thread I've never seen kicked around. Just before my wort reaches
>a boil it tries to foam over the top. With vigorous stirring I can bring
>the foam down. Once it reaches a rolling boil everything is fine,
The best advice I ever got on this matter was to skim the boiling wort. What
I observe is a filmy substance form on top of the wort and slowly cover it
completely. Once this film (or "skum", as a friend calls it) covers all the
wort, things are ripe for boilovers.
I spend about five minutes skimming with a strainer every minute or so until
the rolling boil keeps an area clear. I can then leave the room for an hour
and not worry about boilovers (of course I come back to add hops and check on
how much has boiled away). Just did it last night, too, leaving about an inch
and a half between the top of the wort and the top of the pot, and didn't
worry a bit.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 08:02:14 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo@homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Barrels
I must admit to knowing virtually nothing about the subject, but I judged at
the BUZZ OFF a month or so ago in the Specialty Beer (oh no!) category. One
entry was a "whisky beer" brewed in an old whisky barrel. I must admit that I
don't know the ingredients used, but the result tasted absolutely nothing like
beer and a *lot* like whisky.
In other words, I would be wary of used whisky barrels for any other use.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 08:05:07 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo@homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Pressure Cookers as Home Autoclave for Yeast Propagation.
Does anyone have any advice on what type of pressure cooker to buy for yeast
propagation type activity? I occasionally see them on sale for $19.95 or less
and wonder if those are too small or too cheaply made to be useful for
sterilization.
Thanks for any info.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 16:21:11 EDT
From: Tim Lawson <lawson@clcunix.msj.edu>
Subject: Hops in yeast starter
In the June 10 digest, Domenick Venezia asked "why bother" adding hops
to a yeast starter. All of the sources I have seen claim that adding
hops to a yeast starter decreases the risk of bacterial infection. I
believe this property of hops was also one of the reasons why it began to
be used widely in the making of beer, and also a reason for the high hop
rate in India pale ales (which were designed to survive adverse conditions
in the long ride to India).
Tim Lawson
Cincinnati, Ohio
lawson@clcunix.msj.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 08:31:58 -0400
From: kyounger@afs.com (Kristofer_Younger)
Subject: Re: New Papazian
Yesterday, here on our local market Public Radio,
Charlie Papazian was being interviewed by a local
personality - plugging his new book and answering
calls. He characterized his new book clearly as a
follow-on to the "Joy" books - a lot of stuff for
the "intermediate/occasional" brewer.
I can't wait to buy it. And all of those who listened
to the show kept saying "tough job, thank god there
is someone willing to do it..."
cheers,
Kristofer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 04:57:01 -0800
From: FFRI@aurora.alaska.edu
Subject: Mead fermentation times
Clay writes
> I have had a batch of mead going for 12 days now
and goes on to share concerns about whether this is too long, perhaps
inviting some kinds of problems. Clay, in my experience (moderate
to limited) many meads may ferment actively (fermentation lock
happily bubbling away) for a few weeks when all is well. Having
used 13.5 # of honey as you did (I am guessing this is for a 5 gal batch)
you should expect your mead to take a few weeks to reach the full
potential alcohol level, providing you used a mead or champagne yeast
(or some other which is selected for high alcohol fermentability).
Don't worry, have a homebrewed mead! And good luck. --roy--
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
=+=- Roy Iutzi-Mitchell ffri@aurora.alaska.edu -=+=
+=-=+ P.O. Box 1128 I.A.Y.I.A. +=-=+
=+=- Bethel, Alaska 99559 U.S.A. 907-543-3642 -=+=
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 23:21:24 EST
From: <mop3@BoM.GOV.AU> (Midas Operator 3)
Subject: Secondary Temp for Pale Ale w/#1098
I've got my first batch with a liquid yeast, Wyeast #1098 British, in primary
fermentation with an immersion heater holding the temp at 20 C (68 F). When I
rack to the secondary fermenter, what temperature should it keep at? Without
the heater on, but with a thermal jacket made out of an old blanket, it will
sit on 15 F (59 F) all day and night without much, if any fluctuation. Also,
using this strain of yeast, how long should it be in the secondary?
TIA Stephen Hudson s.hudson@bom.gov.au Melbourne, Australia.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 09:30:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: More Mild Comments
Norm writes:
> Subject: Mild Ale
> Jim Busch gives the following from his mild ale recipe suggestion:
> >English Ale Malt for OG of 1.055 (13.8P)
> >Counterflow chill and dilute to 1.034 ish (8.5P). Ferment with London
> >ESB and serve on cask hand pump!.
>
> I love the 1968 yeast, and I love the idea of the hand pump, but I think I
> would ferment it at the higher gravity for the extra esters that is likely
> to produce. Then I would dilute it with preboiled water. This, I think,
> would give a more interesting low gravity ale. Actually, this would make
> a great side-by-side experiment. Hmmm.
This is another good idea. I was thinking of Fullers Hock Mild,
which to me was not overly estery, but Im sure they come in all
flavors. Since this is an ideal beer to brew high gravity and
dilute, side by side batches are easy to do.....
I omitted hops in the Mild. I would think Goldings and Fuggles
are typical. Im still real fond of the Styrian Goldings hops
too.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 94 10:16:58 -0400
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst@zk3.dec.com>
Subject: yeast culturing
Terry Terfinko asks:
>.... I currently recycle my yeast by
>creating a starter from a Wyeast packet. At the time I pitch the
>starter, I also pour a few ounces into a fresh starter bottle with 16
>ounces of starter wort. After 24 hours at room temperature, I
>place this bottle into the fridge. One day prior to brewing, I place
>this starter at room temperature and after pitching into my brew I
>repeat the starter cycle. I usually use the refrigerated starters
>within 1 to 4 weeks.....
>Does anyone see a problem with my methods?
As long as you maintain sanitary conditions, I see nothing wrong with your
method if you use the yeast often. If you brew once every few weeks and only
use one yeast, one could argue that this is the best method. However, if
you like to brew many different beer styles you will use many different
strains of yeast. This means that some of the yeast will be used very
infrequently.
You are correct that long term storage of yeast in a liquid
starter is not a good idea and that the best long term storage method
(for the home brewer) is an agar slant. The "Brewers Resource"
(1-800-827-3983) has an extensive line of yeast culturing equipment. Their
latest catalog is just out.
- --Tony Verhulst
No affiliation with Brewers Resource
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 11:40:12 EDT
From: Mark Gugel <mdgugel@mtu.edu>
Subject: agar plate sterilization
I plan to begin streaking several of my favorate yeasts in agar. I have
read some literature on how to prepare agar, sterilizing the wort, etc., but
I can't find a suitable means for sterilizing my dishes. I bought two sleaves
of disposable dishes from a chemical supply store, and when I tested one of
these in my pressure cooker it melted into a nice little ball. Would someone
kindly suggest the accepted procedure for sterilizing plastic culture dishes.
Thanks,
Mark D. Gugel
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 09:57:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: tim@summit.novell.com (Tim Ihde)
Subject: Re: Hydrometer Corrections
I just completed my first partial mash (thanks for the advice,
everybody!).
While not worrying about anything, I did take lots of measurements on
the assumption that I would figure out what it all meant later. One
thing I have is my hydrometer readings after sparging, which I wanted
to use to determine my extraction rate. Unfortunately what I did was
to record the reading right away instead of setting aside a sample
for later. As a result, I've got a reading taken at around 140
degrees F. Then I find that the correction table I have doesn't go
near that high.
I pretty much extrapolated the curve from the table, but I was
wondering if anyone knew of a formula for this curve or perhaps had
some confirmed numbers a little farther out? (It looks like I ended
up with around 25 ppg . . . a bit low but I think acceptable since I
didn't do any ph correction and that read a little high.)
I would guess that accuracy starts to suffer quite a bit at
temperatures like this; do people usually save such samples and take
readings at a more reasonable temperature?
tim
- --
Tim J. Ihde | Novell Unix Systems Group
tim@summit.novell.com (908) 522-5571 | ISV Engineering
isv-support@summit.novell.com (908) 522-5033 | Summit, New Jersey
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 09:33:44 +0800
From: barry@odf.UCSD.EDU (Barry Nisly)
Subject: Foaming wort/one quadrillionth/New Papazian/next step?
Malcolm Tobias says his wort foams up right before it boils. You can skim
the foam off before the wort comes to boil. I usually stir the wort pretty
fast and the foam piles up in the center. Just scoop that off and dump it
out (it doesn't taste very good). Some people probably think you lose
valuable proteins that way but at least the wort doesn't end up on my
stovetop (always a plus).
Todd Boyce asks what comes after (before?) pico. Femto- is the prefix for
one quadrillionth (just say 10E-15).
I also bought Papzian's new book. I'm about half way through it. I found
it at Barnes & Noble (same thing as Bookstar and Bookstop). $11 - 10% for
the membership card. It is a good *companion* to TNCJHB as it goes into
the whys of brewing. I also received the postcard - after I bought the book.
So after THBC, where do I go? I've read Miller already. Would Dr. Fix's
_Principles of Brewing Science_ be the next step in my achieving zen with
my brewing? Or do I stick to something that is (or at least sounds) more
down to earth like _Brewing Lager Beers_?
Barry "My next batch will be all-grain" Nisly
bnisly@ucsd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 14:36:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: bickham@msc.cornell.edu
Subject: My comments about Beer Basics
I should have been more clear in the beginning and said that while
the methods recommended by Zymurgy might work, there are several
improvements that should have been mentioned. There are not too
scary for beginners. I was flamed privately by a chemist for mentioning
that tap water is possibly contaminated. I have a lot of experience
in the area from growing up on the Ohio River 100 miles downstream
from Louisville. We had frequent warnings to boil drinking water
when the organic and bacterial pollution was more than our purification
plant could handle. Believe it or not, there are acceptable amounts
of bacteria, and if you want references, please refer to _Brewing
Lager Beer_ by Noonan, or _Malting and Brewing Science_ by Briggs et
al. Noonan recommends zero contamination for brewing water, and
while the acceptable amount depends on the type and the amount of
bacteria, I wouldn't take any chances with *my* wort. In addition,
by boiling you drive off chlorine, chlorophenols (if there are any,
hopefully not) and get rid of permanent hardness. Sounds like three
good reasons to me!
I apologize for trying to give brewing advice based on reputable sources.
Scott Bickham
bickham@msc.cornell.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 14:12:07 -0600 (CST)
From: DARREN TYSON <TYSONDR@SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Finicky Beer Drinkers - Summary
Howdy brewfolk,
Just wanted to post the results of my recent survey...
I had posted a letter recounting my tale of living in Buschtown (St.
Louis) and going to places with limited selections of (alternative)
beer. I wanted to know to what length other homebrewers would go to
enjoy good beer. Abstinence/water? Gin and tonic? etc.
the following is a summary of responses.
**DNJ writes- "My suggestion is to change your mind set -- that is,
don't think of bud, etc. as beer, but as a cold mind-altering
beverage that can be enjoyed when you can't have beer."
**John Faulks writes- "I have also [refused] ordering beers when
only megaswills are available. The way I figure it is that in my own
humble way I am voting with my pocketbook." He also suggests being
persistent in asking servers whether they carry alternative beers.
**Jeff M. Michalski recounts this anecdote- "Recently I asked a
bartender if they had anything that wasn't Anheuser-Busch. He said
"certainly, we have Michelob, Michelob-light, Bud, Bud-light,
Bud-dry, Bud-ice, ..."" He also recommends sticking to the places
where you know that they serve what you like.
**Tom Riddle simply states, "I would rather drink water than most
commercial beers. Sam Adams or better is my motto."
**Rory Porth was aghast at my comment about refusing beer and went
on to say, "There's only three kinds of beer - Those you buy, those
you drink, and those you brew. :-) "
**Spencer.W.Thomas says, "If I'm at someone's house, and they offer
me a beer, I tend to take whatever they've got, or drink something
that's not beer... At a restaurant or bar, I hope they've at least
got Sam Adams."
**Jon Loeliger recounts a recent experience...
>Why just last night at a local restaurant, we had the following
>conversation between a brewing buddy and the Waitron Unit:
>BB: What beer do you have on tap?
>WU: Most of them.
>BB: Sam Adams.
>WU: Don't have that.
>BB: What do you have.
>WU: Bud, miller, [you know the list]
>BB: What else do you have in a bottle?
>WU: All of them.
>BB: [Challenge issued, names an obscure porter, I think.]
>WU: What? We have the Miller family, Bud family, ...
>BB: [Names another good beer]
>WU: I'll get a list.
>BB: Bass Ale.
>WU: Oh, we have that.
**Tom Clifton of St. Louis was also aghast at my turning down a beer
stating, "I think you are being a exclusionary here... There are a
lot of sytles of beer and American Light Lager is one of the AHA
standards... You don't have to like every style of beer that is out
there but to go thirsty on a Sunday afternoon when sitting in the sun
on the third base line is unthinkable..."
**Benjamin Butzer had a lot to say about being a homebrewer and
drinking megabrewed beer. First he said he likes _all_ beer but he
prefers micro and craft brews, but he still drinks commercial brews
for several reasons. 1) Most bars in St. Paul, MN only sell mass
produced beers 2) Local brewing is picking up (he recommends two
local brews, Pig's Eye and Grain Belt) 3) The commercial brands are
inexpensive 4) Most of his friends only like the megabrewed beer so
he goes with the crowd
**Keith Frank confesses that he, too, is a beer snob and that he will
"in a pinch order a crap beer if that's all that's available <because
he> carries a pocket sized dropper bottle of hop extract which can make
the experience less intolerable."
**rick@adc.com writes "I order water when all they have on tap is
Bud, Bud light, Bud draft light, Bud Ice, Bud light Ice, Bud light
Dry Ice, Bud .... (or was it Miller, Miller light, Miller Ice...)
**Dan Sherman states, "I almost never drink the mass-produced beers
(except for Sam Adams)." He goes on to say that Miller Reserve Amber
Ale isn't too bad and that if I'm lucky the new offerings from AB will
be drinkable and available at Busch Stadium
**Charles Ewen (Charley) recounts a story of refusing to try a new
"ice" beer that was offered by a friend and actually referring to it as
"piss" He concludes, "You tell me: faux pas, or just brutal honesty?"
**Sean MacLennan writes, "I usually will drink commercial beer if
nothing else is available. (There is no bad beer, only better.) That
said, since I started brewing homebrew I have found myself less inclined
to want beer at, for example, baseball games."
**Mark Bellefeuille admits that his taste buds have been spoiled by
homebrew and that if he doesn't have enough homebrew around he
actually goes without beer. When he's out: if he can't get an ale
(preferably Bass) he orders a margarita.
**Tom Merchant writes, "I like my own homebrew much better then the
common commercial brews, but I still drink commercial brews when I go
out. Of course, I spent a lot of years drinking cheap commercial brew
before I started homebrewing and I still enjoy that "light, clean taste"
once in a while. I guess I like beer of all varieties." He also
mentions that whether or not someone likes the taste of Bud, Miller,
Coors, etc., they are "technically high quality beers, if not high in
artistic merit."
**Lee Kirkpatrick admits, "I've tried to learn to be more adaptable
and a little less snooty (although I have to admit I like being snooty
about beer). If I'm at someone's house, I drink what's offered. If
I'm at a ball game on a hot day, a Budweiser actually doesn't taste
that bad anyway."
**Rick Magnan was the last respondent and tells me of his ongoing
(4th year) boycott of the Boston Garden (mainly a beer boycott) due to
the outrageous prices ($3.50 for a 12 oz budmilloors). He admits that
he drinks budmilloors when nothing else is available, but he will also
go without on occasion. He summarizes, "high prices + megabrew = easy
to say no."
BTW, CONGRATULATIONS to Rick on his recent marriage. I hope his new
bride enjoys his brewing hobby!
Well it looks like I'm not the only one out there who is willing to go
without drinking beer when only AB, Miller and Coors products are
available. I do concede however that the offerings from these
companies are not necessarily swills, they are just not to my liking.
May all you beer be homebrewed,
Darren tysondr@sluvca.slu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 14:45:44 PDT"
From: michael j dix <mdix@dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Thanks/Vacuum Sealer for Hops?/Vollrath Pot?
A public thanks to everyone who responded to my Fritz Maytag questions.
The consensus is that Mr. Maytag enforces his legal rights to his
Anchor(tm) and Steam(tm) trademarks, and is not at all like the K-man.
Next, I am looking for a cost-effective solution for vacuum sealing my
homegrown hops. (If I can harvest any more before the spider mites
destroy the crop.) Two years ago, after drying them in my American
harvest dehydrator (also good for other herbs and tomatoes), I put them in
Ziploc bags. Though I squeezed out all the air I could, after a month or
two in the freezer the bags were fully inflated. This did not seem good.
Last year, being basically cheap, I bought the Dazey Seal-a-meal (no
snickers please.) Although the vacuum feature turned out to be a joke,
(at least for hops) the double layer bags seemed like a good idea.
However, some of _them_ inflated over time.
So, is there a reasonably priced vacuum sealer for hops? Also, can anyone
explain the inflation phenomenon? They were in the frostfree freezer
compartment of my side-by-side refrigerator.
Finally I was thinking of getting a 38 1/2 qt Vollrath pot from the
Superior catalog. Does any one use one of these on their gas kitchen
stove? Is this the Vollrath price/performance champ for brewing? Right
now I use the famous enamel canner that kinda sorta fits on two burners on
my stove. Does the Vollrath fit over two burners? If not, does it take
an eternity to bring to the boil? (Figure 7 gallons boiling down to 5.)
Not long ago our enamel spaghetti pot started to leak (same mfr as the
canner.) So an SS pot is starting to sound pretty good. I don't think I
want to get a cut-off keg.
Thanks,
Mike Dix (mdix@dcssc.sj.hp.com)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 19:36:51 -0700
From: Don Put <dput@csulb.edu>
Subject: Troubleshooter?
Hello all:
In the latest issue of BT, Dave Miller talks about RIMS saying that "it pumps
the whole mash - grain and all - around and around through a tube that
contains a heating element . . . ." Now, I was under the assumption, never
having seen a RIMS "in the flesh" so to speak, that it was the liquid,
hence the Recirculating _Infusion_ Mash moniker, that did the recirculating.
Have I misread all the RIMS info I've seen? It seems that the diameter of
the piping in the schematics I've seen wouldn't allow the mash to
recirculate. Did the "Troubleshooter" send a round into his foot?
Also, he claims that "the RIMS design does not clarify wort." This is in
direct opposition to Rodney Morris' statement: "Recirculation of _wort_
. . . produces a brilliantly clear liquid by the end of the final temperature
rest."
Comments?
don
dput@csulb.edu
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1495, 08/08/94
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