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HOMEBREW Digest #1452
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/06/17 00:32:21
HOMEBREW Digest #1452 Fri 17 June 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Beer judge poisoning (Bob Jones)
water (Ulick Stafford)
Potential Zoological zymurgy flamebait :) (Bill Sutton)
California Common Beers? (Joseph P. Gorski)
Plastic Carboys ("Harrington, Stephen J")
Light pollution (Mark Worwetz)
Polyclar Question ( LARRY KELLY)
Chimay in LA (Chuck Black)
Autosparge details (Bob Jones)
Heat vs. Temperature ("pratte")
bylaws, the last word! (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
Brewing Schools? (ash)
Aerobic starters (korz)
Skunk in a can? (Bob W Surratt)
Lambik Digest address?? ("Thomas J. Ramsey")
shipping problems (Rich Ryan)
RE:Hot water,live animals,kelvin. ("Upward, not Northward!")
Oh my God, an infection?? (Jack Skeels)
Questions regarding soldering of copper? (Kevin Schutz)
Brass Ball Valves/Cleaning SS/Gravity Feed vs Pumps/Grain Mills (Teddy Winstead)
(WIRESULTS)
Thermometer Calibration (Pbr322)
3 Micron Filter Elements (McKee Smith)
Munich Beer Garden and Errant Thermometers (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
Maine Brewpubs (NR706)
Yeast Starters (Jeff Frane)
Munich Beer Garden and Errant Thermometers (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
shame ("Steven C. Boxer")
Pilsner Urquell recipe (Marc de Jonge)
Homebrew Digest (BOBHVM)
How to customize home for brewing (Flyboy)
Growing Hops (Arthur McGregor 614-0205)
Beer Tasting (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Guiness draft cans (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Rubermaid coolers for mashtuns (Wayde Nie)
Misc (GONTAREK)
Gravity at Bottling. (braddw)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 07:58:42 +0900
From: bjones@novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Beer judge poisoning
I think most of know that a beer can get pretty nasty with infections and
not be hazardous to you health. Now when I judge a beer I expect the beer to
have normal ingredients and I would not worry about tasting it. Now say our
experimenting brewer decides to add and interesting ingredient to the beer
to insure a winner. Maybe something cool like oysters or hemlock! Hey I
don't know about other judges, but I don't want to be subjected to such
experiments! At one of our club competitions, one of our judges judged an
oyster stout (it was not labeled as such) and was pretty upset that he was
unknowingly subjected to the foul stuff. I agree! The entrant was also upset
that his beer (that was hammered) was not judged as an oyster stout. The
catagory was Dry Stout.
Some ingredients are on the fringe, I don't want to be subjected to them! As
far as I know there is nothing in the normal ingredients of beer that
prevents or cancels out all bad or dangerous ingredients.
Have fun experimenting with YOUR beer!
Bob Jones
bjones@novax.llnl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:37:51 -0500 (EST)
From: ulick@ulix.rad.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: water
Jeremy Bergsman comments on a water analysis, but made one or two comments I
must question. The extremely soft water was obviously a surface water,
possibly from a fast running stream. This can be told by its softness,
high silica level - sand being washed, and its high organic level.
a> T ALK CAC03 16.0 MG/L
> PHOS-TOTAL .03 MG/L
> C TOT ORGAN 1.2 MG/L
jb>This sounds bad to me. Usually organics in water supplies are the
jb>result of industrial pollution.
Yes, it is bad but it is not the result of industrial pollution. Jeremy's
statement is ridiculous. Usually organics in the water supply are the
result of biological activity, i.e. algae photosynthesiziing and excreting
or decaying. The organic matter makes treatment tricky and usually
requires more chlorine than an organic free ground water. It can also
react with chlorine to form not very nice compounds. For such water I
recommend activated charcoal filtration to remove the organics and chlorine.
(While on the subject - so called environmentalists and their disinformation
really get my goat - over 99% of so-called carcinogens in surface waters
are naturally occurring).
> T HARD CACO3 27.0 MG/L
> SILICA TOTAL 17.95 MG/L
jb>Sandy water?
> FE 334.0 UG/L
jb>I think this borders on being too high.
No. It is fine. Anything under 1 ppm is OK and even a little over will not
adversely affect the taste.
__________________________________________________________________________
'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s@&* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.
Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556
| ulick@darwin.cc.nd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 11:41:14 EDT
From: Bill Sutton <wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>
Subject: Potential Zoological zymurgy flamebait :)
Re: Zoological zymurgy (kit.anderson)
Ahh, I can see it now ...
Jack will begin posting announcements for his new EasyMouser (tm), while
flaming anyone with the gall to recommend the Glatt MouseMill (especially
if they try to motorize the rodentation).
Jim will dispute the amount of tannins extracted in the void phase. Dr. Fix
will publish a paper on the effect of complex proteins from the various
orders, genii, and species - with special emphasis on head retention and
chill haze.
A major rift will develop between those who favor "boullion" brewing due
to its ease and convenience and those who would never do anything but
"all-meat" batches (complete with decomposition rests).
Someone will suggest that we split the digest into two parts, one for
mammalian brewers and one for arachnae brewers.
Threads will develop on % utilization of hops by using jumping spiders,
crossbred yeast strains combining qualities of ale yeast and venus flytraps,
whether calcium carbonate from bones adds too much mineral salt content
to soft water ...
Finally, the distribution site will be mailbombed by soc.religion.hare-krishna
for blatent consumption of animal flesh.
Now, I think you should consider the effects of your postings much more
carefully in the future! :*) :*) :*) :*)
Bill Sutton wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 12:12:54 EDT
From: Joseph P. Gorski <gorski@yankee.com>
Subject: California Common Beers?
Full-Name: Joseph P. Gorski
Fellow brewers,
I have seen in the yeast FAQ a yeast for use in California Common Beers.
I don't know anything about this type of beer and would like to ask the
collective brewers on HBD for information about them. I am looking for
descriptions and all-grain recipes.
Are they ok for summer brewing in NE, my basement stays at about 68F?
Thanks in advance,
**********************************************************
* Smokin Joe Gorski gorski@yankee.com ~{:<} *
* Brewer, BarBQer and Chili Head *
**********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1994 08:58:37 -0800
From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington@msmail4.hac.com>
Subject: Plastic Carboys
I am new to internet surfing but not to homebrewing (about 25 batches). I
have a question regarding plastic carboys. I originally started out using a
glass carboy, but when a mishap caused me to smash a tile in our kitchen, I
was banished to the garage and decided to switch to the plastic type. I have
often heard that plastic retains beer spoiling 'nasties' much more so than
glass, so I was wondering if I am asking for trouble using plastic? Since I
am paranoid about ruining batches, I do not rack into a secondary but let the
whole fermentation process occur in the primary. Is this a big mistake too?
I hope that these questions have not come up recently in HBD.
Thanks for all responses,
Stephen Harrington
sharrington@msmail4.hac.com
- -- Shaking and Brewing in LA.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:37:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark_Worwetz@Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz)
Subject: Light pollution
Howdy from Zion!
The recent thread on light induced skunk essence has me concerned.
How much light will cause this problem? Most of the stories tell of
carboys or bottles left in the sun for 1/2 hour, 1 day, etc. being
affected. Will I get this problem from occasional and very indirect
sunlight? I keep my carboys in a closet for primary. Will 60W
lightbulbs hurt the beer? For secondary, I place the carboy on a rolling
cart in my dining room (read very, very indirect sunlight).
I have not noticed any obvious problem, but I would like to read some
quantitative information regarding this light pollution.
Private replies are OK, but "Inquiring minds want to know"(tm)!
Mark Worwetz in Scum Lick City, Utarrrrr
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 12:31:03 EDT
From: KMYH09A@prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Polyclar Question
I used polyclar on two batches of brew, I used 2 teaspoons of polylcar to
each batch.
One batch I boiled some water, then after a boil of 5 minutes, I added the
polyclar to that water, then dumped the stuff into the fermenter. Only a
little, little, little bit of foaming occured. My airlock did bubble, but
not tremendiously.
the other batch I added 2 teaspoons polyclar directly to the fermentor, I
got a little more foaming.
I have read messages on HBD and in books on how this stuff is suppose to
REALLY FOAM UP! Well where is all this foam???? My batches are 3 gallons
each. I could of bottled the beer, but I wanted to give polyclar a try and
see what happens.
Did I do something wrong? Did I use to little polyclar?
Where's the foam??
Larry
KMYH09A@prodigy.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 11:30:16 CDT
From: Chuck Black <chuckb@redstone-emh2.army.mil>
Subject: Chimay in LA
Beerlovers,
Can someone please tell me where in the Marina del Rey area ( or close
by ) that I can purchase Chimay/Corsendonk or other fine beers? I
know about Nahas' in Redondo Beach but they are very pricey and you
can't take them to the hotel with you:)
Thanks and sorry about the non-homebrew related post.
Please reply to me directly.
Thanks again,
Chuck Black
chuckb@redstone-emh2.army.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:01:26 +0900
From: bjones@novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Autosparge details
I have had several requests for more detailed info on the autosparge gadget
I described in a recent post. Here is another amusing ascii graphic.... the
information superhighway needs some improvements!
Sparge
H2O ---------
input ------ |
| |
| |
| | Side view Top view
| |
| |
| |
| | ..[ ]..
| | . | .
| |___ . | .
[ ]-----------(float) . | . ring
----- . | . with
float . | . holes
valve . ( ) .
. .
.......
I use a float valve from Graingers, part number 2X524, $13.70. It doesn't
come with a float. I got a SS float surplus at a local junk store. The
entire assembly is adjustable in heigth, which allows me to place the ring
right down about an inch above the mash bed. I consructed it all out of 1/2
rigid copper and 1/2" flex copper for the ring.
Better brewing through hi-tech,
Cheers,
Bob Jones
bjones@novax.llnl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 13:04:00 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE@GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject: Heat vs. Temperature
Sorry to waste more time on this, but duty calls. In yesterday's
post, Andy Walsh takes umbrage with my definitions of heat and
temperature. Sorry, Andy, but those are the technical definitions
for these terms. Heat is energy, but it is the energy TRANSFERRED
between two objects of different temperature. An object does not
contain heat; it contains thermal energy. And you are correct in
pointing out that there are equations correlating temperature to
thermal energy (They are not the one that you wrote, though, which is
the equation for the amount of heat that an object delivers or takes
in when it experiences a temperature difference at constant volume
and without a PHASE CHANGE. Since every object will undergo
at least one phase change on the way to absolute zero (0 K),
your idea to set T1=0 is incorrect.). However, this
does not change the fact that temperature is defined as the property
that two objects in thermal contact have in common when no heat is
transferred between them.
The reason that I belabor that point is because if you understand
this, then you immediately realize how to calibrate your thermometer.
Each temperature scale (Fahrenheit, Celsius, and Kelvin) is defined
by the temperature at 2 points. Therefore, if you allow your
thermometer to come into thermal equilibrium (no heat transferred)
with the appropriate objects at these two points, you will be able to
calibrate your thermometer. For example, put your thermometer in
boiling water and read it. This point, whatever it is on the scale,
is 212 F (100 C) at standard pressure (check your favorite handbook
for corrections do to altitude). Next, put the thermometer in ice
water and read it. This point is defined to be 32 F (0 C) at
standard pressure. For any point in between these two points, merely
interpolate by dividing the space between these two readings by 180 F
(100 C). For readings outside of the boiling and freezing points,
the only thing that you can do is to assume that the thermometer is
linear and extrapolate appropriately.
The other point that I would like to make is that the equation that I
mentioned in my article was NOT meant to be used by homebrewers. All
three forms of heat loss are occurring and therefore using an
equation that describes only one form would be innapropriate. I
agree with you to run the experiment and check the results. I
mentioned the equation only to point out that Jack's assumption that
the same amount of heat would be lost in equal amounts of time was
wrong since the amount of heat lost depends upon the temperature
differences involved.
I apologize once again for the interjection. And now back to
brewing...
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 13:18:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/@mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: bylaws, the last word!
As a past preseident, treasurer, and vp of
a homebrew club run on the principles of
anarchy, a few of us have decided that
bylaws are needed. Can any club with short
and concise bylaws send me copies by e-mail
or snail mail so we can model our own
bylaws? email: homebre973@aol.com
snail mail: Andy Kligerman
5128 Green Meadow Rd.
Hillsborough, NC 27278
Do clubs need to be incorporated to protect
officers against any liability?
__
On a different subject, I have just been
itchin' (maybe chiggers of poison ivy) to
get into the debates with Jack Schmeidling
versus the world. But since Jack is the
type that has to get the last word I say
"Zyzzogeton" to him %>
Andy Kligerman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 13:36:25 GMT
From: ash@io.org
Subject: Brewing Schools?
I know this has been covered before, but I have no FTP and can't get to the
archives, so...
Can anyone list the various brewing schools, around the world, and, more
importantly, give their addresses? I know of UC Davis, Weihenstephan/
University of Munich, and BrewLab/ University of London. Are there any more?
What sorts of programs do they offer? I'd like to know about homebrewing and
commercial brewing courses.
So, does anyone have the appropriate addresses, or more schools? Reply by
private email; I'll summarise and post.
Ash Baker
Whitby, Ontario
ash@io.org
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 94 18:16:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Aerobic starters
Ron writes:
>So that's my method, which I realize might be kind of hard for real
>homebrewers. But my question is about the aeration. My starter cultures
>are grown _very_ aerobically, then pitched. I've always assumed that since
>I can keep my cultures sterile right up to pitching, this would be an
>advantage, building up stores of sterols (according to Fix). This works
>very well, with my fermentation beginning quickly and smoothly (hardly ever
>any foaming-over). Does the fact that the starter is aerobic bother
>anyone?
Yes and no. Is the air with which the starter is aerated sterile? If not,
then the starter is not sterile. If it is sterile, then I think you have
a very good system. I know that yeast propagators used in commercial yeast
production grow the yeast aerobically.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 12:01:01 PST
From: Bob W Surratt <Bob_W_Surratt@ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Skunk in a can?
Text item: Text_1
I know this has been debated for quite a while and it makes sense that
light struck beer will turn skunky, but how does a canned beer go skunky?
Just thought I'd ask.
Bob Surratt
Intel Corp. Folsom, CA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 14:02:27 -0600 (CST)
From: "Thomas J. Ramsey" <tjram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Lambik Digest address??
Could someone be so kind as to send me the address for the lambic digest?
Even better would be a site for an faq about making p-lambics, which I
couldn't find on Sierra. Hey, when someone (especially a beautiful woman)
offers to buy the cherries and other ingredients, and all I need to do is
try to find out how to put them together and make something unique, I'll try
my best to rise to the challenge. Private E-mail is fine, perhaps even
preferred so Jack and Jim can have enough bandwidth to argue. :-) (Perhaps
that comment reversed would make more sense, but we all know it wouldn't do
any good. :-).)
TIA
T.J. in Austin, <tjram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:00:15 -0400
From: ryancr@allspice.jsan.gtefsd.com (Rich Ryan)
Subject: shipping problems
My apologies to Jack and the rest of the HBD. I was wrong to post
my comments about Jack's product the other day. Please accept my
apologies.
Rich Ryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:43:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Upward, not Northward!" <CULP1405@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: RE:Hot water,live animals,kelvin.
Hello All, a few comments and a question.
1. Andy Walsh is curious about boiling water being hotter than boiling.
Last semester in Food Science 361 we learned that sugar too will raise the
temp. of boiling water. Anything that is in the solution will absorb/hold the
heat and raise the temp. Candy making can be dangerous for this reason. The
sugary syrup can be really hot from being supersaturated. It won't LOOK hot
but...I hope that the more scientific h.b.er's will forgive me for not provid-
ing graphs. Also boiling is not a function of temperature. It is a function of
pressure and the heat needed for the "escape velocity" to break the bonds
and to "leap" into the air. I don't know about the thermometers. Perhaps the
manufacturer did like you, but at a higher altitude, he stuck the therm. in
boiling H2O then stuck on the internally accurate scale based on "boiling
at 212/100", wrongly. Is there a city/country of manufacture? What is it's
elevation?
2.(Live) Animals are used in brewing in China. There is a medicinal liquor that
is made with lizards. It is a pale green color and has lizards on the label.
I was told that the lizards are thrown in the vat. It is supposed to be very
good for you. If any h.b.er lives in NYC or San Fransisco he/she can find it
any chinese store. If you live in NYC I invite you to buy some at Kamman Food
Canal Street, or any grocery store on the Bowery below Broome. Let us know how
you like it. Just as life is too short to drink cheap beer; life is too short
not to drink Lizard Liquor! I had some, it won't kill you.Just Do It!
3. The Question- I have some cherries and want to use them in beer. Is there a
prefered chemical sterilization or is boiling in/before/after wort good?
Is an ale or lager yeast recommended? This is only my second batch, any sugg-
estions are welcome. I do have the C.M. Thanks for your indulgence.
Private e-mail flame or reply is prefered. It's tacky to feud on a public
forum... Culp1405@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 12:04 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587@mcimail.com>
Subject: Oh my God, an infection??
I'm beginning to think that some of my latest bottling is infected, and I'd
like to tap the collective wisdom of the HBD. I've read Miller's Finding
Faults section, and it seems I may have one.
Background:
The recipe is the Bohemian Pilsner from Miller's book. I used Saaz hops and
a partial mash. The yeast was Brewtek Original Pilsner.
In the secondary (glass) I dryhopped 1.5 oz of Saaz pellets for about 2
weeks -- basically until they all dropped to the bottom. I then racked and
bottled.
One week after bottling, the beer had a wonderful creamy head -- very stable
- -- but had a weedy, grassy bitterness. One of my friends and Mark Garetz's
new book both said that this weediness should dissipate with some time.
Well last night the weediness is mostly gone, but the beer has a pronounced
lemon flavor. I looked this up and Miller says that astringency is a
lactobacillus infection. Is this what's up?
What are the probable causes? The only weak spot I can think of is my
racking technique, which I changed as a result of the recent postings. When
I racked this beer, I sanitized the tubing and cane in bleach, rinsed and
filled with tap water and plugged the end with my...THUMB!
I'm naively hoping that this lemon thing is yet another phase that my beer
is going through, not a terminal condition. What do ye think, oh great
ones?
TIA, and clean racking,
Jack Skeels
JSKEELS@MCIMAIL.COM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 14:49:58 MDT
From: Kevin Schutz <kschutz@atmel.com>
Subject: Questions regarding soldering of copper?
Hello all!
Within the last month or so, someone posted some good information
regarding the types of solder that would be appropriate for homebrewing.
They specifically listed several mixes/compounds to avoid. Unfortunately,
I've misplaced that post.
I'm in the process of making a copper racking tube to use for siphoning
from my brew kettle thru my chiller. My plans call for soldering a larger
end cap at one end to help keep some of the trub out of the chiller/fermentor.
If anyone knows of the post that I am referring to or has a copy, I would
appreciate hearing from you.
Private reply to kschutz@atmel.com will work.
Thanks!
Cheers - Kevin Schutz
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 20:37:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: winstead%brauerei@cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: Brass Ball Valves/Cleaning SS/Gravity Feed vs Pumps/Grain Mills
Well, first I'd like to thank everybody who replied to my last posting
about Stainless Steel/Valves/Pumps/etc.
The consensus about cleaning them was that the best way is to use
the old "Boy Scout" method of applying liquid soap all over the bottom
and then washing it off when done. The funny part is that every
reply I got mentioned the Boy Scouts specifically. I think that
this warrants further study. Was everybody out there a Boy Scout?
I only made Cub Scouts.... Otherwise I would've known, I guess...
A word of caution about ball valves, specifically brass ones.
The Home Depot sells these ones made by "Jones Mfg Co.", and they
are complete crap. The hex-nut part of the valve is poorly machined,
and the brass is soft, and this leads to your wrench stripping off
the damned corners of the thing. I did not have this problem with
the "Speedaire" brand valves that I picked up from Grainger for the
same price. Hope this helps someone.
Also a lot of people asked why I wanted to use a pump and not use
the full gravity feed system. Well, the answer is that I am a complete
klutz, and would suffeer 8th degree burns all over my body after the
complete 15.5 gallons of scalding hot sparge water hit me square in the
noggin. The burner'd probably also whack me on the head, causing a nasty
concussion to go along with it. Don't beleive me? Come over sometime
for a homebrew and entertain yourself.
Also, the recent post about animals in beer was intensely amusing,
congrats to the gentleman that posted it. We need more humor around
here!
My query --
Could anyone point me to more information about building a grain mill?
I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but recent events have
motivated me even more. I have already got the Zymurgy gadgets issue,
in which there's an article about how to build a grain mill from hell,
complete with 30 lb hopper, 800 hp motor, etc, etc. What I'm really
looking for are those knurled rollers, like the ones used in the
MALT(TM)MI(TM)LL(TM). I know exactly what they are, they're made from
the same stuff that they make handles for dumb bells with. They also
make bench-press bars from the same stuff. Anyone know where I can
buy this stuff? Grainger doesn't seem to have anything comparable.
If anyone else is interested, contact me, and I'll mail you all the
information that I get. Finally, what about a crank? What's the best
way to build one of these? Beleive it or not, I can't get past this
one...
Once again, thanks in advance! This digest is seriously one of the
best places to get information anywhere on the Net...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 22:17:49 -0400
From: WIRESULTS@WINET.mste.org
Subject:
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 17:55:18 pst
> From: wyatt@Latitude.COM
>
> Has anyone used, priced, seen or heard any information on
> cylindroconical fermenters. The smallest I have heard of is 1/2
> barrel. They seem to be a pretty good idea but I imagine that they
> are quite expensive. They all seem to be temperature controlled,
> which would help to reserve the refrigerator for lagering. I have
> seen extremely large ones in large brewpubs but never one this small.
> I plan to check them out but I thought I would get some input first.
> Any info would be greatly appreciated. TIA.
>
> Wyatt
The only manufacturer that I have run into that sells 1/2 bbl fermentors
is Elliott Bay Metal Fab. (normal disclaimers apply). I don't have a price
from them for this fermentor, but they sell the 2 bbl ones for $6,700. I
would expect that the 1/2 bbl one would be on the order of $1,500 to $2k
To this you would have to add the price of the compressor to chill the glycol
or water to run in the jacket plus the pumps.
Many other groups sell systems from 2 bbls and up. for correspondingly large
sums of money.
Happy brewing....
rjl
rjl
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 00:13:49 EDT
From: Pbr322@aol.com
Subject: Thermometer Calibration
Dweller@GVSU.edu writes "...can I assume the error is linear..." No. You
cannot assume it is linear. It may be linear, it may be non-linear, it may
be a combination with linear and non-linear components. If you want to
calibrate the thermometer, you can create a standard curve using another
thermometer that is "known" to read true. Take several readings in a range
that you will be using the instrument with both the "bad" thermometer and the
"good" thermometer. Plot the temperature readings taken with each
thermometer on different axes on a piece of graph paper. Depending on the
correlation, you may need a set of french curves to draw a best fit line (or,
since you have a computer, you may be able to do this with software). The
more data points you take, the better your graph will be. If you want to get
fussy, you can take several temperature readings at each temperature with
each instrument and average them before plotting.
You can interpolate the "correct" temperature by finding the point on the
graph that corresponds to a reading taken with the "bad" thermometer and
finding the coordinate on the "good" thermometer axis to which it
corresponds.
Then again, if this seems like an inordinate amount of work, throw it out and
buy a laboratory grade thermomter ($15-20) (BTW you will need to have one --
the "good" thermometer -- in order to perform this exercise anyway).
cheers
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 01:21:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: McKee Smith <MCKSMI@delphi.com>
Subject: 3 Micron Filter Elements
Phil Brushaber wrote:
>I have been pretty successful filtering some of my beers using a
>cartridge filter. When I bought it, it came with a 0.5 micron filter.
>From a local hardware store I got a 5 micron water filter (sometime
>used on some darker beers, gets out any junk, but does not filter chill
>haze or bacteria). What I am looking for is a 3 micron filter
>(recommended by George Fix).
>Dr. Fix says that it is a good compromise filtering out haze and large
>amounts of yeast but not too much body.
I have the same filter unit. When I ordered, I knew 0.5u was too small,
so I ordered it with a 1u filter. I found this was taking too much malt
flavor and body out with the yeast. I did as you and got a 5u filter from
a local store and have been quite happy. I think you can order a 3u
element from the people you bought the original unit from.
However, I should point out that I saw George in early May and asked
him about the difference between the 3 and the 5. He said many people
were getting excellent results with the 5, that there was not a lot of
difference between the 3 and 5 (considering the sizes things in the beer
I was trying to filter out), and that I probably would not get marked
improvement in going from the 5 down to a 3.
Of course, I was trying to get rid of extra yeast. I have not had a
problem with chill haze in my Oktoberfest or other amber beers.
McKee Smith,
Irving, TX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 17:07:53 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Munich Beer Garden and Errant Thermometers
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen
jeff_sargent@il.us.swissbank.com (Jeff Sargent) wrote:
* There is a beautiful biergarden/open air market in downtown Munich
* within a few blocks of the Town Hall/Glockenspiel called the
* Viktualmarket or something similar. They server wonderful helles and
* weissBiers there, in large class mugs with optional pewter discs that
* you could place over the top.
They are wonderful mugs aren't they? I was so impressed that I
bought one (6 DM - what a bargain!) and managed to lug it all the
way back to New Zealand and then broke it on a train on the last
part of my journey :-(
You could put a can of beer in it and it would hardly seem to have
anything in it ... they are 1 litre, without the head-space taken
into consideration of course (aren't the Bavarians civilised!).
I would kill to get another one, is anyone in Munich listening
in? Is anyone going there soon? I am more than happy to pay for
it and it's pilgrimage to me.
Mike Walsh in Sydney (I knew there was an advantage to living in
cold Canberra - lagers!) said his thermometer wasn't working, any
sort of contaminant will affect the boiling pt, if you want to
check it properly get some distilled double-deionised water and
boil that. Those mercury thermometers tend to full immersion
jobs too, though I would have thought that would make it read too
low ... hmmm.
Thanks
Aidan
(aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 02:59:03 EDT
From: NR706@aol.com
Subject: Maine Brewpubs
I know most HBD'ers are tired of these questions, but here's one more -->
I'll be in Maine in a couple of weeks ... comments about brewpubs in the
Portland/Kennebunkport/Boothbay Harbor areas? And anything in Portsmouth, NH?
E-Mail responses, please.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch@teleport.com>
Subject: Yeast Starters
Only a datapoint:
I do NOT use hops in my yeast starters. For why? Because I autoclave
them, I don't feel like the feeble antiseptic contribution is worth the
effort. And because I let the starters sit around in their Erlenmeyer
flasks and I don't want to fret about whether sunlight is going to make
them stinky. And because I love that fresh bread aroma of the yeast.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 17:07:53 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Munich Beer Garden and Errant Thermometers
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen
jeff_sargent@il.us.swissbank.com (Jeff Sargent) wrote:
* There is a beautiful biergarden/open air market in downtown Munich
* within a few blocks of the Town Hall/Glockenspiel called the
* Viktualmarket or something similar. They server wonderful helles and
* weissBiers there, in large class mugs with optional pewter discs that
* you could place over the top.
They are wonderful mugs aren't they? I was so impressed that I
bought one (6 DM - what a bargain!) and managed to lug it all the
way back to New Zealand and then broke it on a train on the last
part of my journey :-(
You could put a can of beer in it and it would hardly seem to have
anything in it ... they are 1 litre, without the head-space taken
into consideration of course (aren't the Bavarians civilised!).
I would kill to get another one, is anyone in Munich listening
in? Is anyone going there soon? I am more than happy to pay for
it and it's pilgrimage to me.
Mike Walsh in Sydney (I knew there was an advantage to living in
cold Canberra - lagers!) said his thermometer wasn't working, any
sort of contaminant will affect the boiling pt, if you want to
check it properly get some distilled double-deionised water and
boil that. Those mercury thermometers tend to full immersion
jobs too, though I would have thought that would make it read too
low ... hmmm.
Thanks
Aidan
(aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:07:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven C. Boxer" <scb15@columbia.edu>
Subject: shame
Last week I sent a request to cancel the daily delivery of this
digest. Rather than take the time to read the header that comes
before the body of the digest, I sent the request to the wrong
address. In the past I have been solely interested in skipping
directly to the contents to see if anything would be of interest.
For sending my request to the wrong address (a flagrant violation
of homebrew protocol and breach in Email etiquette) I offer my
apologies. However, in response to this innocuous fax pas I
received several nasty letters and unnecessary comments. For
example:
Steven C. Boxer had the nerve to spew:
>
> set homebrew nomail
>
set mailing_list_user newbie
As stated on the first page of each and every digest ever
sent to your mailbox, list requests go to the address
(surprise surprise) hombrew-request. To send this to the
actual list just makes for more clutter and pushes back real
articles a day or two from being published.
"Technology is a wonderful thing in the hands of
responsible people; a void of wasted resources in the hands
of fools."
In response to those individuals who have tainted this digest
with personal attacks, pejorative and profiteering, I say shame
on you. I suggest to those who are so self-absorbed that they
wish to transform a hobbyist's newsletter into an arena of
negativism that they take stock of themselves and to the relative
insignificance of homebrewing. This recent trend has yielded a
less enjoyable digest, created a negative impact on the hobby and
alienated at least one reader.
Steven Boxer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 09:50:48 +0200
From: dejonge@tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: Pilsner Urquell recipe
In HBD 1450 Aaron Shaw qoutes a recipe for
Pilsner Urquell by Dave Line.
I can't resistcommenting on that...
> 7lb.10oz./3.85 kg Crushed lager malt
ok
> 3 gallons/15 litres Water for "lager" brewing
read 3 imperial gallons of "soft water"
> 1 tsp. Irish moss
no, don't bother
> 2.5+.5+.25 oz./75 + 15 + 10 gm Saaz hops
Don't dry-hop for the original taste!
(amounts are appr. right for 4% alpha hops)
> 2 oz./60gm Lager yeast
ok
> .5 oz./15 gm Gelatine
no, forget it. If it doesn't clear after two months
of lagering it won't do much good anyway.
> .5 tsp.per pint/5 ml per liter White sugar
how about keeping a little sweet wort for priming...
> 1) Raise temp. of water up to 45'C and stir in crushed malt,
ok.
> while stirring raise mash temp to 55'C, leave for .5 hours.
ok-ish.
> Then raise temp to 66'C, leave for 1 hour, occasionally
> returning temp. to 66'C.
Use decoction at least for this step (boil 1/3 of the mash
separately and add back to the mash-tun).
Add this step:
Raise temp to 72'C, leave for .5 hour
> .
> . deletia
> .
> 4) Add 2nd batch of hops, strain of clear wort and top
> up with cold water to make 4 gallons/20 litres.
Do a full volume boil and cool before splashing (straining).
> 5) Pitch yeast when cool...
Read: when temperature is below 10'C, skip the dry hopping.
> 6) Leave for 21 days before racking to bottles, allow 30
> days maturation.
No, leave for 60 days at a temp. below 4'C, then prime and bottle.
Note that the recipe that Dave Line gives is not one of 'a beer
like I would buy'. It sounds too much like English mock-lager to be
called pilsner, let alone Pilsner Urquell.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Marc de Jonge dejonge@geof.ruu.nl
Utrecht University, Geophysics dept, Utrecht, the Netherlands
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 20:48:15 EDT
From: BOBHVM@aol.com
Subject: Homebrew Digest
Please remove BobHVM@AOL.com from the Homebrew Digest. Thank you
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 00:10:43 GMT
From: flyboy@ralph.com (Flyboy)
Subject: How to customize home for brewing
Hi all....I'm back on net, new address shown below.
I asked this question about 18 months ago, but it now looks like we're
actually going to build so here we go again....If you had the chance or
have had the chance to modify your house for brewing purposes, what
would or did you do? Please note that we are in Austin, TX so a
basement is not possible. Please let me know what you all have come up
with over the years and maybe I can incorporate some of this into our
new home. If there's enough response, I'll summarize and repost.
Send responses to ralph!flyboy@ralph.com (Chris Pencis)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 07:52:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Arthur McGregor 614-0205 <mcgregap@acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Growing Hops
Howdy All:
I have a few questions on growing Hops. I planted some Hops
rhizomes this Spring, and all have sprouted. I live in northern
Virginia, near Washington, D.C. One of the rhizomes, a Cascade,
has done fantastic, with five shoots (three over 5' high with one
at 15' with small flower buds), while the rest the rhizomes only have
1-2 shoots, and between 1-3 feet high. Is the one Cascade plant
unusual for growing so fast in its first year?
This Cascade plant gets a little more sun than most, but a few
get just as much but are not doing as well. All rhizomes were
planted in March/April in a 50-50 mix of Virginia red clay and
compost cow manure (16' dia. x 18" deep). Other varieties
growing in addition to the Cascade are Hallertauer, Northern
Brewers, Saaz, Tettnang, and Willamette. I also have another
Cascade in a different (less sunny) location, and is not doing
nearly as well.
My second question is if there is a good or recommended liquid
fertilizer that can be used to give the hops a boost (e.g.,
Miracle Grow)? Email or post ok.
TIA
Art McGregor (mcgregap@acq.osd.mil)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jun 94 12:15:00 GMT
From: mlm01@intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Subject: Beer Tasting
ATTENTION CHICAGOLAND AREA BEER LOVERS:
There is a beer tasting being held at Armanetti's in Addison this Saturday
6/18/94 from 1-6pm and it's free. I was told that there will be about 50
beers. The directions are: I-355 to Lake St. go East about 2 miles to
Armanetti on the North side of the street. The address is 508-510 W. Lake St.
Phone 708-543-0440
I have no affiliation with this event or with the liquor store.
Mike Montgomery
mlm01@intgp1.ih.att.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 08:43:07 EDT
From: cem@cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Guiness draft cans
Gruss,
I took apart one of those Guiness can that have the nitrogen gizmo inside
which creates the creamy head, etc. A few of us were discussing how it works
and how it is manufactured/installed in the can, etc.....
Does anyone out there know for sure how this works and is assembled.
Enquiring minds want to know...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 08:51:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayde Nie <niew@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Rubermaid coolers for mashtuns
Hi Brewfolk,
I remember hearing that some coolers tend to warp (or are
otherwise unsuitable) at mash temps. I have come across a new 57L
Rubbermaid rectangular cooler at a good price and was thinking of buying
it. Is there any reason that this brand shouldn't be used for mashing?
TIA,
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayde Nie | PROGRAM tr. v. To engage in a pastime
Student Consultant | similar to banging one's
Computing and Information Services | head against a wall, but
McMaster University | with fewer opportunities
NIEW@McMail.CIS.McMaster.CA | for reward.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 9:06:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK@FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: Misc
Hello everyone! I have a hop question that I was hoping to get an
answer to. I am brewing a partial-grain honey lager that I want to
dry-hop. My local brewstore only had Cascade hops in leaf form. My
question (I hope I don't sound like a fool) is: Can whole leaf
hops be used exactly the same as pellets? My last batch of beer
used 1 ounce of Cascade pellets in the secondary, so I was wondering
if I can toss 1 ounce of Cascade leaf hops in and get the same amount
of aroma, etc. Private email would be appreciated.
Also, does anyone know where I can get good (cheap) bulk grain?
My local store only occasionally has 15 pound bags for sale. I'd like
to get, say, 50 pounds to keep around. I know William's sells bulk
grain, but living on the east coast would make the package a tad
on the expensive side.
One last question: How do you expert all-grainers measure
the amount of grain? For my first all-grain batch, I crushed
15 pounds of pale malt and then measured-out how many cups of crushed
grain I had. Then I had a conversion factor by which I could tell
how many cups of crushed grain equals one pound. This crude method
was good for the first batch, but it would not be practical if
I bought a 50 pound bag o' grain! Is there anything clever that people
do short of buying a scale? Thanks for the help.
Ta ta, and have a cold one for me!
Rick Gontarek
gontarek@ncifcrf.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu Jun 16 09:06:49 1994
From: braddw@rounder.rounder.com
Subject: Gravity at Bottling.
I have a Lager that has been two weeks in the primary, that I want to get
into bottles soon because it's wrapped in wet towels and ice packs in my
closet due to the mini heat wave we are having in New England. It
started at 1.047-8, I pitched with wyeast American Ale yeast, it has been
fermenting around 55-60 deg F for 2 weeks and there is nore more activity
in the air lock.
Question: what F.G. should I expect/bottle at? Due to the heat I'm
anxious to get it into bottles where I can lager it more easily.
TIA etc....
**** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- ****
C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~|
`--' --------------braddw@rounder.com------------- `--'
-------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1452, 06/17/94
*************************************
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