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HOMEBREW Digest #1438
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/06/01 00:34:43
HOMEBREW Digest #1438 Wed 01 June 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
New Kegger (Bill Rust)
Digest Browser Program (Mark Evans)
re-wives & beer (George Tempel)
mash numbers, #2 (George Tempel)
mash numbers (George Tempel)
hop utilization (Ron Hart)
Scottish Brown (Sean MacLennan)
Pickle buckets as lauter tun (Francisco Jones)
The Renaissance of the Yeast Culture Kit Co (Jim Busch)
Re: Scottish Yeast attenuation (Jeff Frane)
Dave Miller says "acidify sparge water" (George Danz)
Brett in porters (Don Put)
Common Mashing Methods (Martin Lodahl)
For AOL members only (Venter)
Montreal International Beer Festival (Richard Nantel)
bentonite (Carl Howes)
Correcting false bottom misinformation (Allen Ford)
A Spruce is not a Spruce (huffmand)
Weizen / Malt Profiles (npyle)
Wyeast Scottish (Rich Larsen)
Mashout Necessary? revisited (Jim Grady)
Re: CO2 tanks, HBD#1437 (May 31, 1994) ("Christopher V. Sack")
First brew (Jeffrey S Walls)
no subject (file transmission) (Steve Scampini)
Words of caution (Richard Nantel)
MEMO (Maribeth_Raines)
Party Pig (via RadioMail) <jhorzepa@radiomail.net>
Recipe Calc Spreadsheet on Sierra ("Manning Martin MP")
gas grills = good brew flame? (Mark Bunster)
force carbonation-bad for head retention? (x-4378)" <Simpson@po2.rb.unisys.com>
re: beginner's primary fermentation question (Karl Elvis MacRae)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 May 94 22:24:00 -0640
From: bill.rust@travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: New Kegger
Greeting Brewmeisters!
Well, I tapped my first keg! I ran into a few problems however, and I thought
I'd ask for advice from the collective wisdom of the HBD. First, let me tell
you that I have a 5 gallon 'Cornie' with ball fittings, and a two gauge
regulator.
1) When I attached the gas line and started to agitate the beer, I got some
beer into the gas line. I don't think I got any beer into the regulator,
and after two days, I've noticed no problems with the gauges. Is there a
way to tell if I've got beer in the regulator? Also, what happens to the
regulator, if I did?
2) Sterilizing and cleaning was kind of a pain! I did what I could, but I
read in the Miller book that you should remove the ball fittings. How do
you get them off? I started to get an open ended wrench but it was on so
tight, I was afraid of breaking the fitting. Any ideas? Also, any clever
ideas on how to clean picnic tappers (and unfortunately, gas lines)? I had a
booger of a time getting water to flow through the hose!
3) Memorial day was a success. I carbonated at 2.6 volumes (by agitating,
and resting for a day) and then resetting the regulator, bleeding CO2, and
setting to 5 PSI to dispense. It was a little under carbonated, and a bit
foamy, but almost everyone liked the beer (my Austrailian lager didn't pass
the 'Girlfriend test', Oh well). Next time, I'll try to continue agitation
until I can no longer hear gas flowing through the regulator. Does this
sound like the correct procedure?
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Malt does more than Milton can | BILL RUST |
| To justify God's ways to man. | Systems Analyst |
| | Shiloh, IL |
| A. E. HOUSMAN (1859-1936) | bill.rust@travel.com |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
- ---
~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 07:05:39 -0600
From: evanms@lcac1.loras.edu (Mark Evans)
Subject: Digest Browser Program
A recent post mentioned something called Digest Browser as an alternative
to scrolling through the digest. I was curious so I checked it out.
This works program works great if you run an off-line reader like Eudora
for Macintosh (a great mail program once you get it working). I downloaded
Digest-Browser-16.hqx from ftp wuarchive.wustl.edu;
cd/systems/mac/info-mac/app. I store my HBdigest in its own mailbox on
Eudora; close Eudora, open the Digest BRowser and open the Eudora Folder to
the digest mailbox. The digest browser gives me a double window--the table
of contents on the top and the messages below. Highlight the item in the
contents and the appropriate message shows up in the bottom window. It's a
great way to skip by items that you are not interested in reading. Works
for any digest that has a contents list at the beginning.
Brefully yours, Mark Evans
================================================================================
| Mark Evans Dubuque, Iowa |
| Practitioner of |
* | Visual, Literary, and Zymurgistic arts | *
| Evanms@LCAC1.Loras.edu |
| 319-582-3139 |
============================================================================
====
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 09:04:16 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel@MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: re-wives & beer
re:wives & beer
>Also, I've noticed a few posts mentioning beers being brewed at a wife's
request (from our male digesters), and I've noticed that these seem to be
somewhat lighter beers. Do those of you who brew specially for a spouse
find yourself with a beer you yourself would drink? Just curious; my wife
grew up drinking Guiness so I've no need to lighten up.
allen,
my wife's beer tastes run from the medium body and nut-brown
type stuff to the lower end of the spectrum (she used to like
Carta Blanca, but can't find it). She also likes Weiss beers as well;
except for the Carta Blanca, my tastes, fortunately, are similar.
Neither of us are real hop-heads --have tried them, but just
can't take the bitter stuff-- so we do drink a lot of the same things.
She, among lots of our friends, particularly like the Gingered Ale
recipe I had posted all-grain questions regarding earlier ---i offer
this as a indication of her favorite.
l8r...
ty (george tempel, home = netromancr@aol.com)
"kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 08:58:32 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel@MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: mash numbers, #2
mash numbers, #2
- --------------------------------------
Date: 5/31/94 8:48 AM
From: George Tempel
In my earlier posting I forgot some descriptions:
* My initial runoff was nice, dark, and sweet, and a little cloudy.
* By the time I had a nearly full brew kettle, the runoff was
almost colorless (but not quite), and still a little sweet.
* The wort has/had a lovely copper brown color. Yummy.
So, when is a good time to stop the runoff? Did I leave some
stuff in the Gott that should have ended up in the brewkettle?
thanks again in advance
george (ty) tempel
tempel@monmouth-etdl1.army.mil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 08:48:01 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel@MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: mash numbers
mash numbers
Hi all...
Well, this past holiday weekend I got a chance to do my 3rd mash,
this time using my new 5gal Gott and my 160K btu cooker. I did
the following:
* combine 10lbs 2row, 1lb crystal, 1 lb carapils in the Cooler with
3 gal of 130 deg water. Stir. Temperature approx 122 deg. Wait 30min.
* performed iodine test just to see what it would look like. Yup, got
some black stains in the sample water.
* add 6 qts of 200 deg water, stir. wait 30 minutes. During this time
the temperature varied between 148 near the top and 156 closer to
the middle (couldn't reach the bottom). After stirring the temp was
about 154 or so.
* Heat 6 gal sparge water to 170 deg. The mash was done before
this came up to temp, so the mash sat an additional 25 minutes
inside the closed Gott cooler.
* Begin sparge into the brew kettle. Using hose clamps, I allowed
the Gott to drain directly into the kettle and semi-clamped the sparge
water hose to try and keep water near the top of the grain bed (it
dropped a little bit off and on).
* Do the boil & hop schedule thing. Here's the recipe:
10 lbs 2 row
1 lb crystal
1 lb carapils
5.1% Cascades (about a tablespoon of pellets), 60 min
1 tablespoon grated/sliced ginger root, 60 min
5.1% Cascaded (another tablespoon of pellets), 10 min
The whole thing (full volume boil) took about 23 min to cool
with my 1/4" immersion chiller and about 5 gal of water.
My starting gravity was about 1.045 or 1.047 (can't remember
here at work). Is this good? My other 2 mash attempts had
rather poor extraction, but I had trouble with equipment
during those attempts. Now that i've got a nice homemade copper
manifold inside the Gott and something for a full volume boil
I anticipate smoother running and better results.
I've made a similar recipe before, using extracts:
4 lb pale LME
2.5 lb light LME
1/2 lb carapils
1/2 lb 60L crystal
This had a SG of about 1.048 (give or take 0.001, again, my notes
are at home). The friend at the homebrew shop said the all-grain bill
(up above) should do the trick and give me a gravity about 1.050.
Did I do something wrong? How can one determine/predict the
starting gravity? How does one calculate the number of points
extracted? I'd really hate to find that my all-grain attempts
are for naught...
thanks in advance
george (ty) tempel
tempel@monmouth-etdl1.army.mil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 09:54:18 -0500
From: Hart@actin.rutgers.edu (Ron Hart)
Subject: hop utilization
I'm looking for methods of measuring hop utilization in wort. Yes, I
realize this is normally done in mysterious chemistry labs, but luckily, I
have one! Seriously, if anyone could e-mail me a protocol, or a reference
(in a journal not too hard to find) for a protocol, I'd really appreciate
it.
Private e-mail is probably best since I doubt general audiences want to
read about this. Thanks.
Ron Hart
Deparment of Biological Sciences, Rutgers University Newark
hart@actin.rutgers.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 01:16:49 -0400
From: sam@GOBI.TOOLSMITHS.ON.CA (Sean MacLennan)
Subject: Scottish Brown
I recently purchased Byron Burch's *Brewing Quality Beers* book. In it,
he gives a recipe for a Scottish Brown. Being a fan of brown ales and of
Scottish descent, I am interested in making this beer.
Two questions:
1) Byron calls for 4oz of dextrine powder. Could I use dextrine
(cara-pils) malt instead? And, if so, how much?
2) What is the difference 'tween brown ale and Scottish brown? The
Scottish brown seems to have more hops, but are there other differences?
Thanks
Sean MacLennan
sam@toolsmiths.on.ca
There are no bad beers, only better.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 10:51:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Francisco Jones <fjones@cs.uml.edu>
Subject: Pickle buckets as lauter tun
I suspect this is a common problem, but I haven't seen any data/info
on it so I'm going to ask anyway. If the info/answers to my questions
is/are well documented, then feel free to flame the crap out of me
(privately, please), but be sure to direct me toward the appropriate
info sources while you are doing it. Here's my question:
I just acquired some of those white food grade plastic buckets from a
restaurant so I could fashion a lauter tun (I'm about to take that
famous all grain plunge). Of course, all three buckets that they gave
me formerly contained pickels since I didn't specify (under the
"beggars can't be choosers" axiom). I don't feel like trying again at
a different restaurant unless I determine that these buckets are
worthless.
So, does anyone know of an effective deodorizing technique for this
situation? Has anyone used (former) pickle buckets as a lauter tun?
Were there any negative effects on your beer? Any data at all on this
one?
Thanks. Private email fine.
Francisco Jones
fjones@cs.uml.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 11:11:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: The Renaissance of the Yeast Culture Kit Co
As many of you may recall, a friend of mine began a homebrew
supply buisness dealing with Yeast Culturing. I posted about
the demise of his side of the adventure a few months back. I
am pleased to report that the buisness has been revived, moved
to Michigan and is now operating. The proprietor is a trained
microbiologist/Phd and an all around good guy. The products
have changed little. If you would like details off line (HBD), feel
free to email me and I will provide some info. If you would
like to contact the buisness directly they can be reached at:
The Yeast Culture Kit Company
1308 W. Madison
Ann Arbor MI 48103
(313) 761-5914 fax/voice
(800) 742-2110 fax/voice
As usual, I have no financial affiliation with any form of this
company, either past or present, aside from being a satisfied
culturer. (and people say I have no culture!)
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Scottish Yeast attenuation
John Robinson wrote:
> Does anyone know what the attenuation of this yeast is? I'm
> also curious in the others (Czech Pils, Special london ale [a
> killer yeast strain IMHO], and the others).
Official Wyeast data:
Scottish ale yeast (1728): Flocculation high; apparent attenuation
69-73%. Optimum temp. 55-70F
Czech Pils yeast (2278): Flocculation medium to high; apparent
attenuation 70-74%. 46-54F
London ESB yeast (1968) new name: Flocculation high (an understatement);
apparent attenuation 67-71%. 64-72F
Kolsch yeast (2565): Flocculation low; apparent attenuation 73-77%.
56-64F
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 11:02:25 EDT
From: danz@schedar.rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz)
Subject: Dave Miller says "acidify sparge water"
Well, everytime I read Dave's book I pick up something else I haven't been
doing and still getting good results. I haven't even had my water checked yet,
but it isn't spring water and is not hard or soft.
But, I thought maybe there is something to this sparge acidification and I
thought
I'd look into it. But I can't seem to find Lactic Acid 88% solution anywhere.
Where would one go to find it? Also if this is more difficult to obtain, how
about the Phosphoric acid Dave recomments?
Anybody know where to get these? My drug store doesn't seem to know or
care. Also, anyone out there with experience with and without acidifying
sparge?
Incidentally, my worts are just about as recommended in Dave Miller's book.
Best Regards,
George E. Danz
IPP Applications Engineering
Internet: danz@rtp.semi.harris.com
(919)549-3632 voice
(919)549-3651 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 08:55:14 -0700
From: Don Put <dput@csulb.edu>
Subject: Brett in porters
Subject: Brett in Porters
Has anyone out there used Brettanomyces in the production of a porter?
I've read that years ago, Brett was added to the conditioning casks.
don
dput@csulb.edu
.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 09:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: malodah@pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: Common Mashing Methods
In HOMEBREW Digest #1437, Stan White asked:
> To all: yup, the recent discussion around all grain have made me look at
> "making the move". BUT.... a bit o' terminology I just can't figure out.
> What is a decoction mash?? a single step infusion mash?? or any other type
> of mashes?? and why would one use one type over the other??
Ah, so it's a question of mashing types, is it? Well, in a nutshell:
INFUSION: Add grain to hot water, mix, and wait while temperature
slowly drops. This is the principal method used in the UK, and malts
there are made for it, very fully modified and with a low percentage
of nitrogen. The very common "picnic cooler" mashtun is made with
this method in mind, and it's probably the most commonly used homebrew
mashing method, despite the fact that the higher nitrogen content of
North American pale malts not infrequently leads to chill haze.
STEP-INFUSION: To improve clarity and yeild, and gain control over
the makeup of the final wort, there are advantages to stepping the
mash through a temperature program. The usual steps are a mash-in,
then a protein rest (where proteins are degraded into smaller components,
some of which are important yeast nutrients), one or more starch conversion
rests (if desired, separate temperatures can be used to favor beta- and
alpha-amylase), and a mash-out. Can be done in a picnic-cooler tun by
additions of boiling water (tricky!), but is more commonly done with
a direct-fired vessel of some sort, the mash then being transferred
into a separate lauter tun.
DECOCTION: This is a very special way of creating the steps outlined
above. A fraction (usually the "thickest," meaning mostly grain)
is removed from the "rest mash," raised to a temperature favoring
enzymatic action (usually ~160F) and held for a while, then boiled,
the boiling mash being then returned to the rest mash, where it
raises the temperature to the next step. The usual result is increased
malt aroma and flavor, improved clarity, increased yeild, and slightly
darker color. Adds much time and work to the brewday, but seems to
be the best way to handle Continental malts. Can be done in just
about any setup that doesn't make removing and returning the decoction
too difficult.
AMERICAN MIXED MASH: What the Big Boys do. Mix the corn or rice you
plan to use with a portion of the malt, step it through a mash program,
then bring it to a boil. While the cereal's cooking, start the main
malt mash. Dumping in the cooked cereal will bring the mash to conversion
temperature.
These are just the most common methods; there are others. I would think
that anyone reading this who's been thinking of trying a mash would
have to conclude that if such different ways of approaching it are
all successful, the process must be very forgiving. It is! Give
it a try!
- Martin
= Martin Lodahl Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah@pacbell.com Sacramento, CA USA 916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! (Unk.) =
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 May 94 08:38:47 EDT
From: Venter@aol.com
Subject: For AOL members only
This post is only of value to subscribers to America Online. The rest of you
can skip it.
As we all know, the AOL Internet Mail Gateway splits this Digest into pieces.
Putting it back together tends to be a pain in the neck. To help alleviate
this, I have written a no frills DOS program which puts it back together.
It's called HBDPatch and you can find it in the Wine&Dine Library.
Good Brewing!
Bob Borgeson
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 94 12:16:35 EDT
From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Montreal International Beer Festival
I heard on tonight's news broadcast that Montreal will be hosting an
international beer festival on June 16-19. The report stated that hundreds of
beers from all over the world would be available for tasting. Admission will be
$6 Cdn. and 4-oz samples will cost 50 cents. The festival will be located behind
Place des Arts (de Maisonneuve blvd. at Bleury St.)
Not affiliated in any way, just looking forward to tasting the world's best.
Richard Nantel
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
rnantel@cam.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 12:29:45 EDT
From: sdlsb::73410@sdlcc (Carl Howes)
Subject: bentonite
Noted Tony's price for Bentonite in #1435. A local (Hudson, NH) supermarket
carries a brand of cat litter which purports to be 100% Bentonite at (about)
us$2.50 for 20 pounds...just a data point, all possible disclaimers apply,
and if you try it you didn't hear this from me.
Carl
73410@sdlcc.msd.ray.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 11:38:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Allen Ford <allen@darwin.sfbr.org>
Subject: Correcting false bottom misinformation
Jack S. writes in response to my remarks:
> This is about as well thought out as your comments on the "other" JSP
> product we had a bit of a discussion on. One might get the idea that it
> is me rather than the issue that turns your crank.
Not at all, Jack. I don't even know you and I don't believe personal
attacks are appropriate on this forum. What "turns my crank" is your
making blanket statements concerning brewing processes and/or equipment
that are contrary to my own experience. As an example, I cite the
following:
> Fact is, the false bottom can not be used at all in a fired kettle no
> matter how much one stirs because of the water under it. This quickly
> becomes steam and causes no end of problems.
Fact is, I have been using a mash tun (converted keg) with a false bottom
for precisely this purpose. I simply recirculate while adding heat with
a propane burner. I am able to pump the foundation liquor up to the top of
the grain bed before it has a chance to boil and form steam (or scorch).
This is why I am interested in the concept of stirred mashes. I would
like to even out the temperature of my mash more effectively.
If you're ever in San Antonio, I would be glad to show you my setup and
demonstrate to you exactly how its smooth operation refutes your "well
thought out" comments. While you're here, bring a Maltmill and we'll
compare it with my Glatt.
I would reiterate--I have no product to promote. My only concern is
accuracy in the brewing information disseminated in this digest.
To the cause of great homebrew!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Allen L. Ford <allen@darwin.sfbr.org> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-= Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research San Antonio, Texas =-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 09:45:08 PST
From: huffmand@ccmail.orst.edu
Subject: A Spruce is not a Spruce
About that spruce beer,
Is it imaginable that different species of spruce are
specific in the flavors they add to a beer? Or the stength
of those flavors? I noticed a post from someone who used
Blue spruce tips. Blue spruce is noted for it's sour
tasting needles. From the high country of the west,
Englemann spruce might provide a more subtle character than
Blue spruce. Where I am, Sitka spruce is showing it's new
growth and tempting me to brew with the tips. How about
Black spruce of Alaska, or Red spruce of the Eastern
states?
Any ideas on what the best tasting spruce might be?
David Huffman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 11:03:11 MDT
From: npyle@n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Weizen / Malt Profiles
Jim Busch and Steve ? discuss Weizen (to decoct or not to decoct, that is the
REAL question). Jim notes that Eric Warner doesn't decoct his weizens in his
newly opened micro, in direct contrast to his recommendations in the book.
Eric is speaking on brewing German wheat beers at the upcoming AHA Conference
in Denver, so maybe some brash young brew punk (not me!) could ask him to
explain...
**
Ken Schroeder asks about flavor profiles of various malts, specifically
Munich and Vienna. This type of information is hard to come by, as flavors
are perceived differently, and I'm sure the profiles change based on their
environment (decocted, infused, hi grav, lo grav, hops, etc.). That said, I
would expect this type of information in the Grain FAQ, currently being
worked on by an HBD'er. This type of information was difficult to come by
for the Hops FAQ, but I found some information here and there.
Cheers,
Norm = npyle@n33.stortek.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 12:07:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <richl@access1.speedway.net>
Subject: Wyeast Scottish
robinson@orbit.acrso.ns.ca (John Robinson) Writes:
>I did a scottish ale a couple weeks ago. Lots of pale malt,
>lots of crystal and some munich malt. SG was 1.084. I used the
>new scottish ale yeast from Wyeast, and when all signs of
>ferentations ceased I kegged it. That was last weekend. FG was
>1.030, which seemed a little high to me, but not out of line
>considering the style and the SG.
It doesn't sound that high of a final when you say you used "lots" of
crystal. How much is lots? :-) The more crystal, the less fermentables
in your wort. So a 1.030 gravity might be around the ballpark.
>This being the first time I used this particular yeast, I
>started checking around to see if I could locate any attenuation
>numbers. No luck. I checked the yeast faq, and while it is
>full of interesting and useful information, none of the new
>yeast strains had any attenuation percentages.
I don't have any numbers, but my experience with this yeast tells me
it is very attenutive. A while back, I posted some info on a batch that
I did, and got a quite impressive FG. I believe it was 1.070 down to 1.014.
I just did two batches with the dregs from the previous batch, one a barley
wine and the other a smaller ale (that I am going to add fruit to later)
Anyway, the BWine SG was 1.104 and the smaller ale was 1.060. The BWine
as of one week in the primary, was down to 1.030. The smaller ale was
down to 1.009!!! The key to good fermentation is to aerate the wort as
much as possible before pitching the yeast. This is especially true in
high gravity worts, such as yours.
=> Rich
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Rich Larsen (708)-388-3514 |
| The Blind Dog Brewery "HomeBrewPub", Midlothian, IL |
| (Not a commercial establishment) |
| E-mail to richl@access1.speedway.net |
| Also on HomeBrew University Midwest (708) 705-7263 |
| |
| "I never drink... Wine." Bela Lugosi as Dracula |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 13:28:52 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady@hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Mashout Necessary? revisited
At the risk of causing trouble...
Way back in HBD #1242, Domenick Venezia asked whether mash-out was
really necessary. There were several responses that seemed to be
saying, "Well, not really but don't try to skip it on a wheat beer or an
oatmeal stout!" I think I will start making it a regular part of my
procedure based on only a few data points:
I have been brewing all-grain batches since last fall and had never
done a mashout. I was getting reasonable extraction rates (~30
pt/#/gal) so I was happy. A couple of weekends ago, I decided to try an
overnight mash. The extraction rate was only 25 pt/#/gal. I theorized
that the problem was that the mash was a lot cooler than on other
batches so the sugars were not as soluble. Last weekend I made another
batch (not overnight mash though) and added the mashout step - the
extraction was 32 pt/#/gal.
Now I am not against adding a little malt for the sake of convenience
but I would like a little more consistency so that when I shoot for a
target O.G. of 1.040, I get between 1.038 and 1.042 and not 1.032!
So...
Is my hypothesis at all sound? I will continue to mash out in the
future - if I get any really low extraction rates, I will post the
results.
BTW, Domenick's original concern for doing a mashout was the added
transfer and equipment that would be needed to heat up the mash. I just
added 5 qts. of boiling water and it brought it right up to 170^F. I
calculated that 5 qts were needed using the great thermo equations from
Kelly Jones that I had forgotten long ago (see HBD #1207). Thanks Kelly!
- --
Jim Grady
grady@hp-mpg.an.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 13:25:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher V. Sack" <cvsack@lor.syr.edu>
Subject: Re: CO2 tanks, HBD#1437 (May 31, 1994)
On Tue, 31 May 1994, David wrote:
> Subject: Co2 tanks
>
> I have a pseudo brewing related question. I found used - what look like CO2
> tanks - at a junk store. They are empty but the owner has no idea what was in
> them previously or what they were used for. My question - is there any chance
> whatever was in these before can ruin my beer or me. Is there any way to tell
> what was in them or should I not worry and just buy them? Anybody have any
> ideas? Thanks
> David DiValerio
> Orchard Park, NY
>
There is a possibility that the tanks contained poisonous gases, but it
should be possible to determine what type of gas (toxic, flammable,
corrosive, etc.) the cylinder contained by looking at the connector. Go
to a home brew store or a fellow brewer with a CO2 tank/regulator and
look at the threads that connect the tank to the regulator. For CO2, the
connector is a CGA 320. Compare these threads to the used tanks at the
junk store. (Better yet, borrow a regulator and see if it fits.)
There is a second item to be concerned about. In order to get the tank
filled from a dealer (if it is a CO2 tank), the tank must be certified.
Look for a number stamped in the body of the tank near the valve that
looks like a date: eg. 4-88+*. This is when the tank was last pressure
tested and its rating. All tanks must be periodicly re-tested. I think
the period is ten years. I am not sure who pays for the testing, it is
probably the owner of the tank. If the tank fails, it is returned with
holes drilled thru it and you lose the cost of the tank as well as the
cost of the testing.
___ ___
Sincerely, / ) | / / ) __ __ | Christopher V. Sack
Chris / | / (___ __ ) / )| / Chemistry Dept.
/ | / ) / / / | / S.U.N.Y.-E.S.F.
(____/* |/* (____/ (__\ (__/ |/ \ <cvsack@lor.syr.edu>
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 94 09:04:40 EDT
From: Jeffrey S Walls <71134.10@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: First brew
So I did my first brew, and opened my first bottle (and second, third,
fourth, etc) over the Memorial Day weekend. Great taste, BUT..............
I noticed the same thing that I did when I tasted the hydrometer test
sample after cool down. BITTER. Not quite as bitter, but still.... Great
color, dark yellow almost orange, good light taste (a summer poolside,
great carbination. I thought the recipe had toooooooo much hops, but being
a newbie, who am I to question the wisdom of a recipe?
3.3 pounds, Home Brewery light liquid extract
1 pound, M&F light dry malt extract
1/2 pound, crystal malt (40L)
1 teaspoon, Irish moss (10 minute boil)
1/2 ounce, Cascade pellets (60 minute boil)
1--1/2 ounces, Cascade pellets (20 minute boil)
1 ounce, Cascade pellets (finish after boil)
2 packages, Nottingham ale yeast (rehydrated)
3/4 cup, corn sugar (priming)
O.G. 1.022 (seemed low to me, forgot to stir first)
F.G. 1.006
This is as clear as can be, (Irish Moss???) and fermented out in 3 days.
Sat in the primary for 1 week total until I could bottle. (I'm building a
deck too). Any comments?? Anything I should have added and didn't? Man I
love this hobby!!!!!
No. I'm not worried, I assume this will mellow out, and do enjoy it even
the bitter bit at the end.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 14:42:15 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini@hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: no subject (file transmission)
Just a simple recipe request for an extract Duvel knockoff (or conjectures on
how they achieve, IMHO, a really unique flavor - hops? spices? yeast?
all of the above?). Thanks in advance.
Steve Scampini
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 94 12:44:14 EDT
From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Words of caution
I bottled my latest ale last Saturday evening. After capping, I proceeded to
carry 24 bottles in a standard cardboard beer crate to my storage area. Halfway
there, I noticed the bottles in the center of the crate were about an inch lower
than the bottles around the edge. I had time to utter one short %#@ before the
bottom fell out. (No, the box wasn't wet -- just old.)
All 24 crashed to the floor. Five exploded sending glass everywhere. After the
noise subsided, I realized my left knee was badly gashed. The wound was to the
bone and required 16 stitches to close. This could, however, have been much
worse. I could have been more seriously injured, or worse yet, my daughter or
wife could have been struck.
It took this sobering experience to change my bottling procedure. Plastic milk
crates will now be used. Please don't wait for something like this to happen to
you.
Richard Nantel
Montreal
rnantel@cam.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 11:54:52 PDT
From: raines@radonc.ucla.edu (Maribeth_Raines)
Subject: MEMO
With regard to the siphoning methodology I thought I'd elaborate on
Al's method. Needless to say I'm not a fan of mouth siphoning, I
don't like the taste of bleach or boiling water!
> Okay, to contribute something useful and since I started this whole
"don't
> use your mouth to start a siphon" thread, I'll post my siphon
starting
> technique. Basically it relies on the previous liquid starting the
next
> liquid through the siphon and using a hose clamp (not my fingers) to
keep
> the liquid in the hose when changing to a different liquid.
> 1. fill siphon hose with water
> 2. use the water to siphon sanitizer into the hose
> 3. use the sanitizer to siphon rinse water through the hose
> 4. use the rinse water to siphon the wort/raw_beer through the hose
> (discard the first cup or so)
> If bottling:
> 5. use the raw_beer to siphon the primed beer through the hose
> (discard the first cup or so)
I use a procedure similar to Al except I fill the siphon hose with tap
water by forcing water into hose end from the faucet. I put the
racking cane in 1 gallon jar of sanitizer next to the sink. As water
is forced into hose, bubbles (air) are blown into sanitizer, at this
time I release hose from faucet and place it in the bottom of the
sink. This will start the siphon. Drain enough liquid through to get
sanitizer into all parts of the hose then clamp to soak or transfer to
rinse water (I use boiling water). I also soak the hose end by
dipping it into the sanitizer. You don't need surgical gloves to
transfer, just touch parts of the hose and cane that doesn't go into
the wort, ie., elbow of cane or area above clamp. The secret to
maintaining a siphon is to keep both the cane and hose full of liquid.
If for any reason you touch something that hasn't been sanitized
(some of us don't have the best depth perception or aim with two feet
of dangling hose), you can clamp and stop the flow, and dip into rinse
water again. I keep a pitcher of rinse water in a pitcher nearby
exaclty for this purpose. If for some reason I lose my siphon and
have to resort to sucking on the end of a hose, you can rinse with
rinse water before placing it into the transfer vessel.
This method takes a little practice to master but is definitely safer.
I use a similar siphoning procedure to transfer radioactive liquid
into a disposal container in the lab. It's definitely easier and
safer than pouring! I would'nt even think of puting anything in the
lab in my mouth, especially radioactive liquids!!!
On another note there was a recent post regarding a gizmo called a
"Boil Alert."
> a three inch glass disk that sits in your brew pot and
> starts flapping around BEFORE your brew comes to a boil.
> There is no boil over! None at all. This thing is great,
> not only does it warn you that boiling is about to start.
> It's flapping around stirs the mix and does the same thing
> you would do if you stired constantly while the mix heated up.
> After the boiling starts I get a wide flat spoon and remove it
> to avoid bothering my family (usually I brew in the mornings).
> I can't induce my brew to boil over since I started to use
> this (yes I tried). If someone knows where to find these
> I'll post that as well.
I would also like to attest to the use of this glass disk (also called
a pot watcher) to homebrewing. I started using these when I started
brewing on the stovetop and have yet to have a boilover. It works on
much the same principle as boiling stones. It serves as a site of
nucleation for bubble formation so that you don't get a 'bump' or
burst of bubbles released all at once. I like mine so much I
convinced Jeff to add them to the Brewers Resource catalog (the new
catalog should be out any day now). He has the pot wathchers in stock
if you're interested in trying one (800-8-Brewte(k)). You can also
find these in gourmet cooking supply shops and the like. They cost
about $3.
No commercial plug intended.
Maribeth Raines
raines@radonc.ucla.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 12:02:07 PDT
From: John Horzepa (via RadioMail) <jhorzepa@radiomail.net>
Subject: Party Pig
I've been lurking on this list for a month or so now, thought I'd ask a
question.
My girlfriend purchased a "Party Pig" keg-like system for me a couple of months
ago (probably to get me to stop bitching about bottling so much). Anyway, the
Party Pig is a food-grade plastic container that holds roughly 2.25 gallons of
beer. There's this valve assembly that fits on top of it, and these "pressure
packs" that go inside. The idea is, you fill the pig with beer (up to a line
marked on the side of the container), put in the pressure pack, force air into
the pig (with a hand pump they provide), watch the pressure pack expand, wait a
week or two, and then start drinking draft beer. The pressure pack maintains
constant pressure inside the pig so the beer doesn't go flat and flows out
easily. The directions say to prime as you normally do. Sounds like a good
idea to me, so I put half a batch of (excellent, IMHO) pale ale into the pig.
A couple of weeks later, I decided to try the beer. I put a mug underneath the
spout, pressed the release nozzle, and got a bunch of foam. No problem, I
thought, I probably just have to bleed a little pressure and then it's pure
drinking pleasure. So, I put a pitcher underneath the tap, pressed the button,
and filled the pressure with foam. And another. And another. The end result
was that I was never able to get anything approaching beer, I essentially had
2.25 gallons of foam (wasting a great pale ale).
I used roughly one cup of light malt extract for priming, this is what I
normally use. Does anyone else have experience with the Party Pig, and if so
has it been a good experience? How much do you prime your beer? Or is this
thing just a lemon? I have one more pressure sack for the pig left (it came
with two), I'm willing to try it again, but first I want to understand what I
did wrong.
john
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 1994 16:35:11 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning#m#_martin_p@mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Recipe Calc Spreadsheet on Sierra
Some of you may be familiar with an article I wrote for Brewing Techniques on
recipe formulation. (Recipe Formulation Calculations for Brewers, BT 2 (1),
(January/February), 44-55, (1994). The article describes my system of recipe
formulation, using the percentages of the various ingredients, and targets
OG, color, and batch size.
Friend, colleague, and fellow HBD'er Jeff Berton has converted some Excel
spreadsheet files provided by me to Windows-Excel (from my Mac-Excel
originals), and posted them to /pub/homebrew/programs on the Stanford
machine. Two extras have been included with these: an automated color
prediction correction, and an automated hop utilization function. Both of
these were included in the article in graphical form, but the worksheet as
provided can now stand on its own, except for extract and hop data.
Three sample spreadsheet files have been provided, and these came from
Widows-Excel, version 4.0.
File names and descriptions follow:
mpmsamp1.xls -
English units oatmeal stout example (Manning). Automated hop utilization
(Manning curve fit of Rager data plus computed Rager OG adjustment) and
predicted color corrections (Manning) have been added to speed things up.
This version also contains some more detailed volume calculations (specific
to my system, but others can adapt to theirs) at the bottom of the sheet.
mpmsamp2.xls -
Abbey ale (From P. Rajotte, "Belgian Ale") example transcribed from the BT
article. Automated hop utilization and predicted color corrections (as
above) have been added.
mpmsamp3.xls -
Pale ale recipe (Berton). Jeff backed out what his extract efficiency was in
this one. After entering the proportions of fermentables and their potential
extract figures, vary the assumed extract efficiency until the actual weights
come out right. Remember that when doing this you must adjust the volumes
such that the net run-off @ 60 degrees F matches the actual result to get a
valid number. The actual extract efficiency calculation described in the
article should give an identical result.
Martin Manning
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 16:53:14 EDT
From: mbunster@hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster)
Subject: gas grills = good brew flame?
Question--
while thinking about whether to and what kind of gas grill to get, I thought
to myself, "I wonder if these would make useful brewing heat sources?"
Anyone tried it? They have the smaller table top ones, which I figure are
basically coleman stoves with lava rock.
So, is there enough heat? I'm talking about maybe a 10 gallon boil at most,
but likely only a 5 gallon (but full!) boil.
Or should I just brew from the heat given off by one of Schmidling's posts?
- --
Mark Bunster |I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Survey Research Lab--VCU |
Richmond, VA 23284 |Adam Smith's invisible hand
mbunster@hibbs.vcu.edu |has got you by the throat...
(804) 828-8813/353-8271 | Trotsky Icepick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 16:04:00 PDT
From: "SIMPSON, Mark (x-4378)" <Simpson@po2.rb.unisys.com>
Subject: force carbonation-bad for head retention?
Hi HBDers!
I read an article recently that stated that beer which is force carbonated
by the "force and shake" method destroys much of the beer's head retention
capability. The author suggested that the head retention characteristics
were actually broken up during the mechanical agitation of the carbonation
process. My kegged beers do not have the greatest head retention, while my
bottled versions do (a single data point). Anyone out there dispute or
agree with this statement??? I plan to carbonate my next beer with my old
method (attach the CO2 at 10-15 PSI for two weeks) as an experiment.
Mark Simpson
simpson@rb.unisys.com (a CORONA Mill grinding man! Yikes!)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 16:33:42 PDT
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman@cisco.com>
Subject: re: beginner's primary fermentation question
>From: Dan Beauvais <beauvais@bbt.com>
>- ---
>in HBD #1434 Karl Elvis MacRae <kmac@cisco.com> asks...
>>
>> I'm wondering if my firmentation
>> is stalling out.
>>
>> I pitched my yeast Sunday evening. By Tuesday morning, it was
>> bubbling so hard the lock sounded lick a ticking clock. This
>> went on all day tuesday.
>>
>> But by wednesday, it had slowed WAY down, and now, (Noon Thursday),
>> it's just producing one bubble every 1-2 minutes.
>>
>It sounds perfectly normal to me. Wait until there is less than one
>bubble in four minutes, (Saturday maybe?) and you are ready to bottle.
Ok, next question!
I've racked to the secondary, and it's clearing nicely, and the
SG seems almost stabilized; at 1.027. Which seems very high to
me, with an OG of 1.048.
What might be up? Stall? Just a very *slow* ferment? Did I
rack too early? (The foam had fallen back into the beer).
Or could this be the actual FG of the beer?
-Karl
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Karl Elvis MacRae Software Release Support Cisco Systems
batman@cisco.com 415-688-8231 DoD#1999 1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1438, 06/01/94
*************************************
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