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HOMEBREW Digest #1454
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/06/20 00:34:06
HOMEBREW Digest #1454 Mon 20 June 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
3 micron filter (Pbr322)
environmentalists (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
Mash and specialty grains/beerball conversions (Montgomery_John)
Alphatoxins [sic] (Art Steinmetz)
Re: Keg Kettles / Two Stage Process / Partial Mashing (Dion Hollenbeck)
Ginger Beer Experiment (Tim Anderson)
Re: Shame (Randy M. Davis)
scales/keg carbonation (Jeff Benjamin)
Re:Dry Hop Help ("Moore, Brian")
Re: Plastic Carboys (Dave Coombs)
Brewpub Reviews and PUBLIST (Andrew Patrick)
Strange Brew ("McCaw, Mike")
Wha to use for priming? ( LARRY KELLY)
Zymurgy error (j.conklin5)
Lambic & Judgenet ("Loren C. Pigniolo")
Re: propane cookers (Steve Christiansen)
SPEED SPARGE(tm) & YEASTY FLAVOR (Timothy Sixberry)
Formula Generation from Tables (Gary S. Kuyat)
Help!! Frozen Keg!! (RONALD MOUCKA)
retraction (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
plastic fermenters (Rob Skinner)
Beer keg "crimes" (Louis K. Bonham)
Electric Stoves (Steven B Gruver)
Arizona homebrewers wanted (Steven B Gruver)
INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
RIGHTFUL BREWING (djfitzg)
yet another COUNTERFLOW CHILLER (John Glaser)
Cylindro-conical fermenters (BradWoods)
Clear Beer/Self-Righteous Brewing (Patrick Weix)
mead yeast (Rob Skinner)
Wort cooling (Phil Miller)
mail order (HERVON)
cleaning copper (Aaron Birenboim)
Back issues of Zymergy (Steven B Gruver)
Ilkka Sysil's sermon on the mount (Eric Miller)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 01:14:53 EDT
From: Pbr322@aol.com
Subject: 3 micron filter
I'm not advanced enough in my homebrewing to know where you would find a 3
micron filter specifically for homebrewing. However, I routinely use
sub-micron filters in my laboratory, in the range of 0.45 to 0.22 microns.
These filters are widely used in biotechnology and cell culture laboratories
for sterilization -- they remove just about everything except viruses. As a
matter of fact, I've used them to isolate yeast from beer. There are also a
plethora of membrane filters available in larger pore sizes (under 10 um) for
removing solid material from liquids, and there are some high volume systems
available which utilize cartridge filteration with large pore size
prefilters, carbon filters, and small pore size membrane filters.
The problem is, the disposable filters which are available at reasonable
prices are meant to filter a liter or two at most -- not the 25 liters your
average homebrew recipe makes. In addition, the larger, high volume systems
are very expensive and usually require positive pessure C02 systems to
operate.
If you are interested in exploring these options, contact SIGMA Chemical Co.
in St. Louis MO, or Fisher Scientific (nation-wide). Most of the large
biomedical supply houses carry a full line of membrane filtration and
cartridge filtration equipment. If you are going to filter on a large scale,
it might be worth exploring.
On a less expensive note -- I've been thinking about how to jury rig an
effective, inexpensive filtration system that would use an aspirator hooked
up to a faucet (negative pressure or vacuum filtration) with activated
charcoal and a membrane filter. It would consist of a closed, sterile funnel
with a screen holding the membrane, on top of which would be the activated
charcoal. Plastic hose would bring beer into the filter, a side arm coming
off of the funnel would connect to a cheap plastic aspirator hooked up to my
sink, and the filtered beer would come out of the neck of the funnel through
another length of hose. The charcoal and filter would be disposed of after
each run. If I actually get around to building it and testing it, I'll let
you know... Cheers.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 09:41:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/@mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: environmentalists
Ulick Stafford writes:
>-"so called environmentalists and their disinformation really get my
goat- over 99% of so-called carcinogens in surface waters are naturally
occurring."
So-called chemists putting out disinformation really get my goat also, which
prevents me from making bock beer! I would like to see his references that
99% of carcinogens in surface waters are naturally occurring! First of all
what is a "so-called" carcinogen? Secondly, most carcinogens that occur in
surface waters are the result of chlorination by-products of organics that
are in the water. Does that make them naturally occurring? I would agree
with Ulick that most of the carcinogens are not the result of industrial
pollution.
Andy Kligerman
Genetic Toxicologist
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 08:57:00 CST
From: Montgomery_John@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Mash and specialty grains/beerball conversions
All this talk about zoological zymurgy got me thinking about making a
REAL skunk beer... ;)
On to my questions:
1) What is the collective wisdom on specialty grains and mashing? Is
there any point in adding these during the mash or should they be held
out for steeping during the pre-boil of the wort? I know some folks
begin warming their wort as it comes off the sparge so you'd probably
want to go ahead and include them in the mash...? I collect in the
kitchen, then move outside to the flame thrower. Thoughts? Comments?
2) A friend of mine recently polished off one of those beerball things
and asked if I had any use for the ball. I seemed to recall seeing ad's
for converting these to homebrewing kegs, but can't locate a single one!
Has anyone used (still using?) these for homebrew kegging? Can someone
point me in the right direction?
Digest responses are fine if deemed common interest, but please direct
flames to private email. TIA.
jbm
montgomery_john@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:01:01 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm@pipeline.com>
Subject: Alphatoxins [sic]
>Rich (who undoubtedly is paying attention in that Siebel
class) writes:
>>Mildewed ro moldy grain may be growing Aspergillus, which is
a source of
>>Alphatoxins.
Well, not too close attention. It's aflatoxins, not
alphatoxins. That tripped me up too.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 07:32:27 PDT
From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Keg Kettles / Two Stage Process / Partial Mashing
>>>>> "Norm" == npyle <npyle@n33.ecae.stortek.com> writes:
Norm> Charles Jackson writes:
>> My next newbie question: I have obtained a propane burner and am looking
>> for a cheap kettle to allow me to boil the entire volume of my lowly extract
>> wort.
Norm> In answer to your question, you can get a keg with the top
Norm> already cut off for you from somebody (BCI?, someone help me out
Norm> here) for right around $40.
BCI Industries, Inc.
6400 Highway 51 South
Brighton, TN 38011
901 476-8000
800-284-9410
You can also get a boiler with top cut out and nipple welded in with
ball valve from SABCO for just under $100.
SABCO
419-531-5347
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 08:29:33 PDT
From: tima@wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson)
Subject: Ginger Beer Experiment
I made a 5 gallon batch of fairly light ale and split it into 3 equal parts
in 2 gallon ice cream buckets after pitching. I then added fresh ginger
juice to one of the buckets. After a week of fermentation I added the same
amount of ginger juice to one of the others. The third bucket got ginger
juice at bottling time. It's been in the bottle for about 2 months now.
Results:
The first (ginger in the primary) has pleasant but mild ginger character.
The second ("secondary") is noticeably more gingery.
The third (bottle time ginger) is wonderful, but with a small problem noted
below. Its ginger flavor is sharp, it burns all the way down. I assume
it would cure worms.
Method of extracting ginger juice:
I used a tool created for just this purpose. It looks a lot like a nut
grater, with many rows of sharp little teeth. You just grate away, and
the ginger root is transformed into a pile of juicy pulp. Squeeze the
pulp and out flows the juice. I used somewhere around 10 oz ginger root
for each sub-batch. What I held constant was the juice volume, which was
3/4 cup.
Small problem:
In very few minutes of sitting, a very fine, very white sediment settled to
the bottom of the juice. Without thinking much about it I dumped it in with
the juice. Since I had done it in the first bucket, I had to do the same in
the other two. The problem is that in the bottle-gingered batch there is
white sediment in each bottle which kicks up easily when pouring.
My next ginger beer will have a cup of ginger juice, decanted off the
sediment, added at bottling time. You may do whatever you like.
tim
Disclaimer: I like a lot more ginger than normal humans do.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 9:53:23 MDT
From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com>
Subject: Re: Shame
I havn't been around this digest very long but I have picked up a few valuable
pieces of information for myself and tried to answer some of the questions posed
by others. For the most part I find the atmosphere friendly and entertaining but
I must admit that it really bothers me (and I hope others) that the simple act
of misdirecting a cancellation request would invite the type of personal attack
directed at Steven Boxer the other day. So what if he wasted a half a dozen
lines of digest space! It was an honest mistake. I have seen a lot more space
intentionally wasted by pointless argument and plain crap but I get over it
and find there is a reason to continue reading since there is good material
too.
Was not every subscriber to this and every other digest new to the net at one
time? Was not every homebrewer new to the hobby at one time? Let's treat people
with a little more courtesy and exercise some patience! Does an addressing
oversight make a person a "fool", I don't think so.
I noticed another unwary soul sent a request to the wrong address in todays
digest. I for one hope that it does not result in the same inexcusable
treatment that Mr. Boxer received.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Randy M. Davis: Mobil Oil Canada Calgary, Alberta Canada |
| rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com |
| Phone (403) 260-4184 Fax (403) 260-7348 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 10:02:19 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: scales/keg carbonation
> Is there anything clever that people do [to measure grain] short of
> buying a scale?
Um, use a scale? If you're serious enough to buy a 50lb bag of grain
for $30+, surely you can spend ~$15 for a kitchen scale. I mean, you'll
have to spend the money on a grain mill, right? Oh, you use a friend's
mill? Well, I suppose you could use their scale, too :-). Grain
probably varies in weight from type to type, even year to year slightly.
You'll probably get much more accurate recipe formulation if you weigh.
You can get a perfectly usable scale that goes up to about 10 lbs for
pretty cheap. I have a Soenhle (sp?) with a widely adjustable tare.
I remove the basket it came with and put a giant mixing bowl in its
place, then adjust the tare to 0 again. This way I can measure over
7 lbs of grain at a time.
And now for some questions of my own. I just invested in a kegging setup
(no more bottle washing! no more bottle washing!), and tried my first
force-carbonated beer last night. I chilled to 36F, put about 10 PSI on
the keg, and started shaking (peptide destruction notwithstanding :-).
After 15 minutes or so, you could still hear gas slowly feeding into the
keg, but I stopped to see how it was doing.
The beer was already slightly carbonated, about the level of an English
ale, and the head had very very fine bubbles and rejuvenated nicely. In
fact, it was the creamiest head I've had on a beer in a long time. It
was so tasty I just started drinking it right then. But a couple of
questions:
1. How long does it typically take to fully carbonate a keg by the
shaking method (i.e., how long until the CO2 stops flowing)? This
is for an American ale, say 2.5 volumes CO2.
2. What differences would you expect to see in head character between
bottle-conditioned and force-carbonated kegged beer? Bubble size?
Retention? Or is the difference just in the dispensing method
(cobra tap vs bottle pour)?
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji@fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 10:51:00 PDT
From: "Moore, Brian" <Moorebw@hvsmtp1.mdc.com>
Subject: Re:Dry Hop Help
Hello all,
In HBD #1451, Larry Kelly asked a few questions about dry-hopping. As this
is a favorite technique of mine (mmmmmm- tasty!) I'll give some answers from
my experience (please note I do not claim to be an expert nor do I play one
on TV).
>1) What type of hop should be used when dry hopping? Pellet, Whole, Leaf,
>Plugs?
I prefer whole leaf or plug (basically just compressed whole leaf hops).
The loose whole leaf hops are the easiest to use. Just drop them into the
secondary about 5-7 days before bottling. The hops will stay in the top 2-3
inches of beer, so when you rack to your bottling bucket, just siphon out
under the hops but above the trub. If you suck a couple leaves up, don't
worry about it! Plugs are OK but you have to cut them in half to stuff them
into the carboy. After a day or two they expand and very closely resemble
loose whole leaf hops (imagine!). I have found dry-hopping with pellets to
be a pain. They don't clear very well.
>2) Do you just drop them into the secondary or primary?
Secondary
>3) Should the be placed in some type of nylon straining bag for easy
>removal before racking? If answer to the nylon bag is yes, should the bag
>be sanitized with say B-Brite?
You could. I don't. Too much effort.
>4) How long does one keep the hops in the wort?
Depends on how much aroma you want.
>5) What's a good hop to use for dry hopping?
>6) How many ounces of hops should I use on the average?
Depends. I make a tasty Liberty Ale clone which I dry hop with 2 ounces of
Cascade for 5 gallons. Talk about aroma! Ever been slapped in the face by
Cascades? Feels good!
Hope this helps. One thing I have noticed is that all of the beers I dry
hop tend to be brilliantly clear but also finish at a lower gravity than I
would have expected. Any ideas?
Brian Moore
moorebw@hvsmtp1.mdc.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 12:18:24 -0400
From: Dave Coombs <coombs@cme.nist.gov>
Subject: Re: Plastic Carboys
Rather than answer your question directly, I'll note that a 5Gal
carboy fits nicely inside a 5Gal "bakery" pail. Unfortunately the
bail does not fit over the top. Now I just have to get several more
pails...
dave
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:15:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator@mcs.com>
Subject: Brewpub Reviews and PUBLIST
I'm the guy that started all the ruckus about Brewpub Reviews and the Publist
a few months back. Well guess what? The Publist STILL has not been updated
since last November, and there STILL is no e-mail address listed in it telling
us where to send our updates.
In the meantime, I have toured numerous new and wonderful micros and brewpubs
in the Midwest, Southwest, East, and even in Ontario. Most of these places
are TOO NEW to be listed in a document that is now well over 6 months old.
I'd list them here, but I would just get flamed mercilessly for "waste-of-
bandwidth". Send me private e-mail, and I will send you the listings I have
for your region of interest. If you like, I might even add a REVIEW or two
(GASP!)
*--------------*---------------------------------*--------------*
|Sysop | Andrew Patrick | Founder|
|Home Brew Univ| AHA Certified Beer Judge |Home Brew Univ|
|Midwest BBS | SW Brewing News Correspondent | Southwest BBS|
|(708)705-7263 | Internet: andnator@mcs.com | (713)923-6418|
*--------------*---------------------------------*--------------*
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 11:03:00 PDT
From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw@wdni.com>
Subject: Strange Brew
OKOK, I give up. I am completely mystified by my latest batch; hopefully
someone can shed some light.
I started out to make my standard pale ale (16# Klagges, 3# Munich, 1# 40o
Crystal, 1# CaraPils, 1/2# Flaked Barley for 10 gallons), which I have made
eight times before. What did I do differently this time? Slightly thinner
mash, and a mashout to 175.
THE EXTRACT WAS BRIGHT! (shout off) Yes, crystal clear.
I did a 90 minute boil, 2oz Nugget at 30 min, 2 0z Wilamette at 60 min,
1.5 oz Wilamette at 85 minutes with a 15 minute steep/settle (normal for
this beer). I forgot the Irish Moss (but I have forgotten it before with
minimal difference in the final product). The wort coming out of the boiler
was a little hazy (which I have never seen before), and out of the wort
chiller was very hazy (normal looking).
THE TRUB NEVER SETTLED! Normally, I would expect a massive drop-out of junk
in about 30 minutes, but these carboys just remain opaque, even after two
weeks!
I'm using Wyeast 1963, and the yeast is flocking out nicely, but the beer is
still opaque. I poured a little off last night to taste test, and the beer
is massively (and "sharply" bitter, much more so than the hops should
account for), and has another taste I cannot put words to. Microscopically,
I don't see significant bacteria, and I do not suspect an infection.
Clearly, the batch is a goner. Can anyone diagnose this? Shouldn't a
starch haze from an over-enthusiastic mash-out have been visible in the
extract before boiling?
HELLLLLP, PLEASE!
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 14:12:30 EDT
From: KMYH09A@prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Wha to use for priming?
I have read numerous books on brewing and numerous messages on HBD, I have
read where some people prefer to prime their bottles with unfermented
(sweet) wort and some use corn sugar, and some use DME.
Why is one method better than another? And which is best to use?
Thanx
Larry
KMYH09A@prodigy.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 18:13:00 UTC
From: j.conklin5@genie.geis.com
Subject: Zymurgy error
I've noticed a recent thread regarding yeast characteristics, and the chart
in the summer issue of Zymurgy. If you look closely at the "notes" column
in the lager yeast section you will notice they have their wires crossed.
They describe wyeast 2042 " danish lager yeast" as "warm fermenting bottom
cropping strain ferments well to 62 degrees f while keeping lager
characteristics". I suspect this description was for the next yeast on the
list wyeast 2112 california lager yeast (which they have described "optimum
fermentation temperature:48 degrees f. Weihenstephan 34/70) ????????????
The chart seems to be screwed up from there on. This could be very confusing
to a beginner or someone using their first liquid yeast. Could mistakes like
these become more commonplace as more and more non-brewers take over the
publication of the magazine??
On another note ; does anyone know a source for flaked rice ? All I can seem
to find is rice syrup or rice extract. E mail reply fine.
Thanks in advance
J.C.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 13:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Loren C. Pigniolo" <lorenp@netcom.com>
Subject: Lambic & Judgenet
Here is the information on the Lambic Digest. I am posting this along
with the info on Judgenet because of interest at the last San Andreas
Malts meeting (you know who you are). Have fun!
Send article submissions only to: lambic@longs.lance.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request@longs.lance.colostate.edu
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib@longs.lance.colostate.edu
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib@longs.lance.colostate.edu).
THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST
Chuck Cox <chuck@synchro.com>, publisher
Michael Hall <hall@lanl.gov>, archive administrator
digest submissions to judge@synchro.com
administrative requests to judge-request@synchro.com
send rank updates to the administrative address
messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored
send rank updates to the administrative address
messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored
FTP archive information in /pub/judge/README on cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov
Published by SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery
Yours,
Loren C. Pigniolo | voice/fax: 415/665-1827
Photographic Preservation Specialist | voice: 800/484-9808 x7841
Photographic Preservation Services | i/net: lorenp@netcom.com
1044 Judah Street #1 San Francisco, CA 94122-2052 | Please call before faxing
Documents on photographic preservation and a list of our services are
available via anonymous ftp to ftp.netcom.com in the directory pub/PPS-info
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 13:54:16 -0700
From: Steve Christiansen <steven@sequent.com>
Subject: Re: propane cookers
Thanks to all who replied to my request for info about propane cookers.
I am currently leaning towards a 135k BTU Kamp Kooker, but before I
decide for sure, I'm taking the advice of one responder who suggested
I call Metal Fusion (1-800-783-3885) and ask them to send me a catalog.
They have several models of cookers -- different sizes, BTU ratings,
single/double burner, etc. I should be able to find just what I need.
Thanks again.
Steven Christiansen
Beaverton, OR
steven@sequent.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 14:19:00 PDT
From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber@msrapid.kla.com>
Subject: SPEED SPARGE(tm) & YEASTY FLAVOR
Hi All
Well I'm an all grain brewer with 18 batches under (or should I say hanging
over) my belt. Most of them turned out quite well, but now I have some
questions for the many experts on the HBD. The first thing I would like to
know is why do other brewers take so much time to sparge? I've heard times
like one and a half to two hours for spargeing. My sparge only takes about
15 to 20 min with five gallons. I get really good extration rates too. So
Whats up with the 1&2 hour sparges. Its no wonder there is so much talk of
heat loss during sparge if it goes that slow. By the way, I use a homemade
Easymasher (tm) with 168 deg mashout and 170 deg sparge water.
My next question has to do with that yeasty flavor that the beer can pick up
from sitting in the primary to long. My last batch may have suffered this
fate. There is no sign of infection, ie. ring around the coller, but it
still don't taste so good. Tastes kind of yeasty. No, it tastes really
yeasty. Now I know that the beer sould be transfered off the old dead yeast
within 5 to 7 days. But what if the ferment is still going at 12 to 14
days? Thats what happened on my latest batch ( a cream ale with 1lb rice
etract). Could the rice extract have caused the ferment to go on longer? I
hear other brewers talk of transfering after only 4 or 5 days in the
primary. I have never had a batch that finished that quick. I usually
transfer to the secondary when the airlock bubles once or twice a minute.
Should I rack it after 5 or 6 days no mater what its doing? That dosn't
sould right to me, but I sure don't want any more yeasty beer. So, what do
you think brew masters?
PS. I really liked the post on Zoological Zymurgy, and
I'll be starting my own "Green Grasshopper Ale" very soon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 18:48:33 EDT
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk@sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Formula Generation from Tables
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat
This isn't stricly beer, but I have seen formulas posted for such things as
Ragers table of utilization, pressure and temp to give volume of CO2 dissolved,
etc. How do these folks generate these formulas? Is there a program available?
Would they convert a table for me? I have tried to use excel to manually do
this, but after several hours, I have a so-so match! This is just too much
work! I need the formulas 'cause my calculator won't do table lookup.
- --
-Gary Kuyat
gsk@sagan.bellcore.com
(908)699-8422
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 15:56:12 GMT
From: rmoucka@OMN.COM (RONALD MOUCKA)
Subject: Help!! Frozen Keg!!
HELP!!
My refrigerator thermostat seems to have spazed yesterday and frozen an
entire corny keg of German Lager. There doesn't seem to be any damage
to the keg itself, and I have hopefully fixed the thermostat problem and
it is now slowly thawing. The batch was filtered and force carbonated a
couple of weeks ago. Any suggestions? Please hurry, the beer was
intended for a family reunion in a week and a half. I've already
changed the name of the beer to Reunion Ice beer. Anything else I
should do?
TIA
Ron Moucka
rmoucka@omn.com
This message created on OMN BBS (303) 667-1149 data
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 18:08:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: retraction
>From: ulick@ulix.rad.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
>Subject: water
>Jeremy Bergsman comments on a water analysis, but made one or two comments I
>must question. The extremely soft water was obviously a surface water,
>possibly from a fast running stream. This can be told by its softness,
>high silica level - sand being washed, and its high organic level.
>a> T ALK CAC03 16.0 MG/L
>> PHOS-TOTAL .03 MG/L
>> C TOT ORGAN 1.2 MG/L
>jb>This sounds bad to me. Usually organics in water supplies are the
>jb>result of industrial pollution.
>Yes, it is bad but it is not the result of industrial pollution. Jeremy's
>statement is ridiculous. Usually organics in the water supply are the
>result of biological activity, i.e. algae photosynthesiziing and excreting
>or decaying. The organic matter makes treatment tricky and usually
>requires more chlorine than an organic free ground water. It can also
>react with chlorine to form not very nice compounds. For such water I
>recommend activated charcoal filtration to remove the organics and chlorine.
>(While on the subject - so called environmentalists and their disinformation
>really get my goat - over 99% of so-called carcinogens in surface waters
>are naturally occurring).
I am perfectly willing to retract my statement about the organics. I said this
based on my city's water report which lists concentrations of various
organic molecules and then a total of all organics, like the number above.
I am no expert in water pollution but I do have a degree in biochemistry and
cell biology and it looked to me like the organics that were being tested for
were "industrial" rather than "natural" but I could be wrong or my analysis
could be unusual. I definitely should not have said "Usually." Thanks for
picking up my slack, Ulick.
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 20:05:00 -0800
From: rob.skinner@kandy.com (Rob Skinner)
Subject: plastic fermenters
>using a glass carboy, but when a mishap caused me to smash a tile in
>our kitchen, I was banished to the garage and decided to switch to the
>plastic type. I have often heard that plastic retains beer spoiling
>'nasties' much more so than glass, so I was wondering if I am asking
I use both glass and plastic, but prefer the convenience of the
plasic. You can reduce the risk of infection by retiring your
old fermenters early. I get all my grain from Brewers Resource,
who ship their grain in five gallon buckets. I take the empties
and drill holes for the fermentation lock and spigot. It's cheaper
than buying new fermenters, and the buckets seal MUCH better than
my old plastic tubs.
___
* MR/2 2.03 NR *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 23:30:56
From: lkbonham@beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham)
Subject: Beer keg "crimes"
In a letter published in the May/June issue of *Brewing
Techniques*, the President of Sierra Nevada recently opined
that it was a crime (specifically, theft and/or receipt of
stolen property) for homebrewers to use a brewery's keg
(i.e., to buy a keg of beer, not return the empty keg and
forfeit your deposit, and then convert the keg to a boiler
or what have you). I have heard Jim Sulier of SABCO make
similar statements.
While I can certainly understand the economic
arguments made by these individuals, from a legal standpoint
(and I am an attorney), I have serious doubts as to their
accuracy, at the very least under Texas law. I find nothing
in either the Texas Penal Code or the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Code that would make this a crime, or would limit
the apparent authority a distributor or retailer to pass
legal title to a keg to a purchaser; indeed, I can
think of several doctrines that a person can acquire legal
title (a/k/a ownership) of a keg *regardless* of what's
written on the keg or what the brewery may want or have in
its contracts with its distributors. However, I'm quite
ready to be proven wrong. Anybody out there have any
straight dope on this? How about a reference to a statute
or applicable regulation? (I already know about the
labeling / mismarking laws, and they don't affect the issue
of who "owns" the container -- they only regulate what can
be sold *in* them.) Or is this, as it appears, just so
much hype?
I'm not saying that everybody should run out and decapitate
kegs right away. However, I have a knee-jerk reaction
to assertions that "x is a crime" without citation,
especially when such run counter to traditional common law
concepts of personal property.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 00:21:04 -0700 (MST)
From: Steven B Gruver <gruver@GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Electric Stoves
Hello all, as this is just my *Second Post* to this listserv. Already, I
am very impressed with the level and quality of information found on this
listserv!!
I am limited to using an electric stove when I'm mashing, and do not have
the privilege of a gas burner. My question is this: Of you who use an
electric burner--do you have any special tricks in keeping the
temperature consistent when mashing. I have had a problem keeping the
temperature steady, thus causing a serious fluxuation of variances in the
temperature.
Steven B.Gruver > gruver@gas.uug.arizona.edu<
University of Arizona - - - /| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
====|=|=|=== | Kappa Kappa Psi--Omega
((| | |)) \| LIFE MEMBER
- - -
(((<<<---IN STEREO--->>>)))
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 00:24:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Steven B Gruver <gruver@GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Arizona homebrewers wanted
I am interested in finding out if any Arizona Homebrewers belong to this
listserv. Please e-mail me with your e-mail address.
Thanks in advance!!
Steven B.Gruver > gruver@gas.uug.arizona.edu<
University of Arizona - - - /| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
====|=|=|=== | Kappa Kappa Psi--Omega
((| | |)) \| LIFE MEMBER
- - -
(((<<<---IN STEREO--->>>)))
------------------------------
Date: 18 Jun 94 02:37:21 U
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Precedence: bulk
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1453 (June 18, 1994)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 07:42:59 EDT
From: djfitzg@VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: RIGHTFUL BREWING
>Extracts do not make mediocre or lousy beer, they do
>not make beer at all. We should realize, that using extracts is
>only self-fraud and wasting money. Malt extracts are incontrovertibly
>even at their best only malt SURROGATES. Btw quality malt is cheaper
>than any rubbishy extract!
.
WHO DIED AND CROWNED THIS CAT,ILKKA, KING OF HOMEBREWING!!!!
TO ILKKA: I THINK YOUR THESIS STINKS,, JUST LIKE YOUR BREW...
djfitzg@vnet.ibm.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 09:41:30 -0700
From: John Glaser <glaser@analog.ece.arizona.edu>
Subject: yet another COUNTERFLOW CHILLER
Haven't heard anything about wort chillers lately, so I thought I bring
it up yet again. I initially used an immersion chiller (30 ft of 3/8"
Cu, etc.). This would take an hour or two to chill 5 gallons, with
stirring about every 5-10 min. When I say chill, I mean bring the water
to about 10 degrees above tap temperature, which varies from about 65F
in the winter to about 90F! in the summer. So, I built a counterflow
chiller:
I got the idea from the Brewer's Resource catalog, where they had an
all-metal counterflow chiller. Mine is very similar, using 22.5' of 3/8"
o.d. soft Cu tubing inside 21' of 5/8" o.d. soft Cu tubing. I used 1/2"
tees on the ends (1/2" tees are made for 1/2" i.d. rigid Cu tubing,
which conveniently has a 5/8" or so o.d.). For the chilling water feed,
I used standard garden hose fittings which I made fit into the
right-angle part of the tee and soldered. I can sterilize it by chucking
the whole thing in a 200F oven.
I tested this chiller with boiling water, and it will bring the temp to
a degree or two above chilling water input with -boiling- water flowing
full throttle. The test on beer will be tomorrow, where I will use a tap
water prechiller (just a 15' tubing coil in a bucket of ice). If I have
to stir the ice in the prechiller, that's no big deal. It's better (and
faster) than waiting more than an hour for lukewarm wort. Also, I don't
have to mess with the beer-to-be.
John Glaser (glaser@analog.ece.arizona.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 12:53:11 EDT
From: BradWoods@aol.com
Subject: Cylindro-conical fermenters
Wyatt writes:
>Has anyone used, priced, seen or heard any information on
> cylindroconical fermenters. , etc
Yes, there will be at least one 5 gallon, stainless steel, cylindro-conical
fermenter
introduced next week at the AHA Convention in Denver
Brad Woods
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 10:02:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: weix@netcom.com (Patrick Weix)
Subject: Clear Beer/Self-Righteous Brewing
First, the easy one:
> From: Alexander J Ramos <geotex@eecs.umich.edu>
> Subject: Cloudy beer
He does this:
> Boil
> Chill with immersion chiller
> Filter through mesh collander into primary (poured through)
> When primary fermentation stops, rack to secondary.
> When beer clears in secondary, rack to bucket, bottle.
> I am not using any agents to help clear the beer right now. Does anyone
> have any suggestion on how to get my beer from being cloudy?
Actually, your ingredients have a lot to do with beer cloudiness, so
no definative plan can be given, but here are my suggestions in order
of what could be done.
1. When you rack to the secondary, do you get every drop or do you
leave the cloudy, trub-laden last pint behind? The same goes for
racking to the bucket before priming. Your racking cane should have a
little plastic support just high enough to keep it out of the sediment.
2. Use a hop bag and a grain bag.
a. They cut down on the number of small particles that get to
the primary (it can't hurt).
b. The grain bag makes it easy to remove all of the grains
quickly once the water gets to 80 deg C (assuming you use specialty
grains). This is important because boiling the grains would leach out
the tannins from the husks, and they could give you a chill haze
problem.
3. Start using Irish Moss in the last 15 min of the boil to make help
clear the beer.
4. Accept the fact that real beer will never look quite as clear as
some super-filtered, over-carbonated, half-sake-and-half-beer
commercial brand :).
Good luck.
> From: Ilkka Sysil{ <isysila@clinet.fi>
> Subject: Rightful brewing
>
> Concise discourse on rightful brewing. Collected theses PART 1.
1. If this is a joke, it is pretty funny. It is amazing how pig-headed
some people can be.
2. If this ain't a joke, take it to alt.religion. We don't need
another flame war between the extracters and the all-grainers. This
forum is for the exchange of ideas and information, not for the
castigation of people with alternate brewing lifestyles :).
Patrick
- --
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Tom Waits
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 09:16:00 -0800
From: rob.skinner@kandy.com (Rob Skinner)
Subject: mead yeast
Is there a high quality yeast (on slants or liquid) available that
is appropriate for mead? Email me with any suggestions. Thanks.
Rob Skinner <rob.skinner@kandy.com>
___
* MR/2 2.03 NR *
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 12:58:09 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Wort cooling
What methods do you in homebrew-land use to cool your wort? I was thinking
of using ice in a sink and placing the boiling pot in the ice for 15 or so minu
tes. Any suggestions? Private email is most welcome.
Phil
c616063@mizzou1.missouri.edu
p.s. I am a relatively new brewer with 3 batches completed and one in the ferme
nter bubbling away!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 14:03:43 EDT
From: HERVON@aol.com
Subject: mail order
I would like to get the names and phone numbers of several homebrewing mail
order comp. I am new on HBD and many of the malts and yeast (e.g. wyeast)
you speak of are not carried by my present mail order company. I would like
to know where I can order wyeast. E mail would be fine
Thank you
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 14:38:04 -0700
From: mole@netcom.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: cleaning copper
I have some copper tubing (chiller) which needs
serious cleaning. It hass a scale, which is likely to be
a combination of mineral deposits and oxides?
of copper (the green stuff). How should I remove it?
Vinegar, TSP, Lye, stronger acid (i have pickel, and could
most likely get some nitric).
I'm converting my old immersion chiller to counterflow, and
i had never taken care of the INSIDE of the copper coil.
aaron
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 16:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Steven B Gruver <gruver@GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Back issues of Zymergy
Is there a ftp or gopher site to view back issues of Zymergy? Any and
all help is appreciated in advance.
Steven B.Gruver > gruver@gas.uug.arizona.edu<
University of Arizona - - - /| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
====|=|=|=== | Kappa Kappa Psi--Omega
((| | |)) \| LIFE MEMBER
- - -
(((<<<---IN STEREO--->>>)))
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 23:58:14 CDT
From: Eric Miller <GHMILLER@MUSIC.LOYNO.EDU>
Subject: Ilkka Sysil's sermon on the mount
as an extract brewer, I would like to personally thank Ilkka Sysil
for enlightening me on the error of my ways. I now see how absurd
I was to ever think I was actually producing BEER! (cue chorus of
angels) I repent, oh thee my Ilkka Sysil, and hope you will accept
me as one of your disciples. I, for one, know I would never consider
your post to be a pompous and insulting piece of tripe like some
other heathens surely will. I beseech you to please enlighten us
with more of your divine wisdom!
Eric "Judas" Miller
ghmiller@music.loyno.edu
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1454, 06/20/94
*************************************
-------
