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HOMEBREW Digest #1443
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/06/07 00:30:46
HOMEBREW Digest #1443 Tue 07 June 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Hops in Commercial Lagers (WLK.Wbst311)
keg fridge comments (Michael T. Lobo)
New England Brewpubs & Breweries ("Pamela J. Day 7560")
Autolysis (John Robinson)
Washing machine mashers (S29033)
Cheese Vat as mash-tun? (Lee Bertagnolli)
Re: Stoudts sold out for months (Jim Busch)
German purity law??? (Bob Jones)
Pale ale? (ueymids)
Bottling with twist offs (Ken Rucci)
Extraction Rate Question (Al Folsom)
Rice Mash (Ken Schroeder)
Questions on strength; more malt? Honey? Other options? (Karl Elvis MacRae)
How to use Amylase? (Forrest Richey)
Q: Quality of Vienna/Munich malts? (Davin Lim)
Re: Fish Tank Foam Filter to Filter Beer (Karl Elvis MacRae)
Can someone explain the different grains ( LARRY KELLY)
Kegging Thanks, Toronto Brew (Dan Wood)
Reverse Engineer (Steve Scampini)
Re: Brew Cap (keith.prader)
Preserving Homebrew (DSHEA)
MICRO-BREWERIES & BREW PUBS IN IOWA ? ("Geiser, Chris [RB-4851]")
Cold Break Question (JEFF GUILLET)
Recipes? (Reid Graham)
Sierra-Nevada was not dead, just resting. (Stephen Hansen)
"Misinformation" revisited (Don Put)
Shelf life (Randy M. Davis)
Cliff Tanner explains "Shaken Peptides" (Nancy.Renner)
Malting,pts/lb/gal,trub, filtering, fining, keeping beer (Nancy.Renner)
Rootbeer fizzle ("Turchik, Robert J")
Attention Mathematicians! (Phil Brushaber)
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 04:44:37 PDT
From: WLK.Wbst311@xerox.com
Subject: Hops in Commercial Lagers
Greetings
In an effort to calibrate my feeble knowledge of hops, can anyone tell me what
type of hops are used in the beer giants such as Budweiser, Coors, Millers,
ect? To me, the hop character of each brand is almost identical (as well as
being almost completely muted). Do they all use the same hop variety, or what?
Bill K.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 08:07:16 EDT
From: mlobo@sunwr23 (Michael T. Lobo)
Subject: keg fridge comments
Greetings:
I finally began using my keg fridge last weekend - what a pleasure it was!
I bought an OLD used fridge for $50, bought the tap hardware from
Superior Products for $30, installed the tap through the door of the fridge
and now have my favorite brews on tap.
Using a "real" tap instead of the cobra tap is a difference like night and day.
I was forever playing with dispensing temps and pressures with the cobra.
The first beer I drew I used 10 psi and out came a great ale with just the
right amount of head. Perfect. Needless to say, once my friends discovered
my new toy, the first keg went quite rapidly {:^)
Bottom line: If you've started kegging and are disappointed with results,
make that extra investment, get a fridge and a tap and enjoy.
BTW - I bought 3 kegs from St. Patricks in TX for $33 + s/h, and even though
they are pin types, they are ~2 inches taller than the kegs I had. Just a data
point if you try to lay the kegs in the fridge.
regards
Michael
___________________________________________________
Michael T. Lobo 508 549 2487
Foxboro Co.
"I Love beer, beer loves me; when I drink too much,
my beer speaks for me" -Monty
- ---------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 07:44:00 EST
From: "Pamela J. Day 7560" <DAY@A1.TCH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: New England Brewpubs & Breweries
Anyone who will be vacationing in the New England area this
summer & needs info regarding brewpubs, breweries, tours, etc. feel
free to e-mail me directly & I'll try to get you whatever info you
might need.
DISCLAIMER: I have no affiliation with any breweries or pubs,
I'm just trying to be helpful.
Cheers,
Pam
DAY@a1.tch.harvard.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 09:24:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: robinson@orbit.acrso.ns.ca (John Robinson)
Subject: Autolysis
My thanks to all who responded to my last question on Scottish
Ale yeasts. Especially to Jeff Frane for providing exactly the
information I was looking for. Did anyone add that to the Yeast
FAQ? That was the first place I looked....
In reading Foster's book on Porter over the weekend I came
across a comment from him that ale yeast was more prone to
autolysis than lager yeast. Sorry I can't be more exact than
that, I'm at work and I don't have his book in front of me. My
experience to date would tend to suggest the opposite is true.
I've never had a batch of ale yeast autolyse on me, but I have
had a couple lagers go after sitting at room temp for three
weeks or so. Comments anyone?
- --
John Robinson Internet: robinson@orbit.acrso.ns.ca
Systems Manager
Atlantic Centre for Remote If it is worth doing, it is worth
Sensing of the Oceans doing wrong until you get it right.
DOD #0069
------------------------------
Date: 06 Jun 1994 10:20:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: S29033%22681@utrcgw.utc.com
Subject: Washing machine mashers
I thought of the idea of a washing machine masher a couple of years ago while I
was considering building a RIMS (recirculating infusion mash system after
Rodney Moris' article in Zymurgy gadgets edition). I thought that a washing
machine could probably be modified to brew. However, after thinking about it
and bouncing the idea off a fellow brewer and colleague, I decided that the
washing machine would need too many modifications to be worth the trouble. One
of the major modifications would be the agitator hub and transmission -- the
seal between the hub and the transmission is not good enough to prevent oil or
grease from getting into the mash. Although this does not happen often with
clothes, it does happen. The mash might even cause this to happen prematurely.
I don't believe that the pumps or hoses are of food grade type either.
I am not saying that it can't be done. Being an engineer I often think that
there isn't anything that can't be done. The effort or cost is usually what
decides what will and will not be done.
Lance Stronk
Sikorsky Aircraft, Stratford, CT.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 09:34:01 -0700 (CDT)
From: Lee Bertagnolli <bertagno@eagle.sangamon.edu>
Subject: Cheese Vat as mash-tun?
I have acquired a 30 gallon SS cheese vat. The vat is cylindro-spherical
in shape, with a bottom drain, hinged lid, and a steam jacket. It came
with various screens, cutters, and molds for making cheese, but the thing
that caught my attention was the integrated steam jacket (also that fact
that the unit was the right price -- free :-). The steam jacket envelopes
the the bottom 75% of the tank, and in effect, makes this thing a giant
double boiler. There are pipes coming out of the jacket, for steam in
and for steam out.
Can this beast be used as a mashing vessel? It would seem to me that it
would be ideal for step-mashing. Does anyone have some thoughts/suggestions
in this regard?
****************************************************************************
* Lee Bertagnolli bertagno@sangamon.edu *
* Sangamon State University "Seville der dago, towsin bus essinarow." *
* Springfield, Illinois "Nojo, demmit trux, summit cowsin, summit dux!" *
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 10:46:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Stoudts sold out for months
Dan writes:
> Subject: micro-brewery festival
>
> greetings all:
> this coming weekend june 10th,11th. stoudts brewery will be hosting their
> eastern invitational micro-brewery festival.
> stoudts brewery
> rt 272 adamstown pa. 717-484-4386.
> no affiliation. hoppy brewing!
Just FYI, this event has been sold out for months. Tough ticket to
get.
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 1994 08:01:02 +0900
From: bjones@novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: German purity law???
>From: "Dennis Lewis" states........
>
>When I was in Munich last year, I got a tour of Spaten and they were
>making Franziskaner weissbier at the time. They used no other water
>treatments than calcium chloride. It's my opinion that water high in
>sulfates is not necessarily good for making weissbier because the
>SO4's contribute a dry palate to the brews, when you are looking for
>a sweeter, more malty one.
>
How does this fit in with the German purity law (I couldn't spell Rein...)?
Bob Jones
bjones@novax.llnl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 1994 09:03:15 MDT
From: ueymids@trex.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Pale ale?
I'm on my 8th or 9th batch of homebrew and have made only darker beers so far.
I've enjoyed, browns, porters, some splendid stouts and bitters, a dark steam
etc. But I finally got the urge for a pale. I attempted an IPA using
Charlie P.'s recipee but I used amber malt and so missed the piss-yellow
color I was hoping for. So I have tried again...
My problem is that this batch, currently sitting quietly in a carboy,
waiting for me to get around to bottling, was supposed to be an IPA---
But it looks like a nice dark brown. I brew from extract and used
Ironmaster's IPA beer kit. I added 3 lbs of light Steinhart Co.
malt extract to get 7lbs total. The shock came when I poured the Ironmaster
malt into the boil, I thought it didn't look pale.. oh well. It still
doesn't look pale. Is it possible that they mislabeled their malt? Has anyone
had this problem, should I write to Ironmaster? Also, perhaps once I bottle
it the beer will magically transform into a piss-yellow pale...
(P.S. I also missed the starting gravity for an IPA, mine was 1.040 not the
1.070 I wanted, I geuss I should use about 10 or 12 lbs of extract next time).
Derek Sikes, Bozeman MT.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 09:28:00 -0500
From: ken.rucci@royal.com (Ken Rucci)
Subject: Bottling with twist offs
I have a question that I think may be able to be answered here. I am
a relatively new homebrewer (about 8 batches) and I need to know if
twist off returnables are okay to use for homebrewing. I recently
acquired several from a friend who wants to contribute to my hobby to
help me "get rid of all that beer I'm making". I have heard that they
are okay and that they are not. I tried capping one and it seems to
be pretty tight but I am reluctant to waste a whole batch testing it
out. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Ken R.
* 1st 1.11 #2437 * Two great Tennesseans: Charlie and Jack Daniels.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jun 94 14:37:07 GMT
From: cssc!cong@scuzzy.attmail.com (brew )
Full-Name: brew
Subject: Attention N.J. Homebrewers
Attention N.J. Homebrewers
The Brunswick Brew Club is having another Homebrew Bar-B-Que.
Admission will be $5.00. Please bring a couple of bottles of your
favorite Homebrew. Our last BBQ we had some members bring Kegs as
well as bottles. We will be serving the usual Bar-B-Que fair.
Hamburgers, Hotdogs, P-Salad .....etc. For directions please
Email me at the above address.
The Date is Thursday June 16. Time: 7:00 PM
We have meetings every third Thursday of the month.
We will be planning summer activities at this meeting.
Chow Down, Drink Homebrews and Be Merry!
cong
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 11:45:26 -0400
From: Al Folsom <folsom@fp.com>
Subject: Extraction Rate Question
Folks -
After yesterday starting my second all-grain batch, I'm looking
for a little wisdom on extraction rates. I seem to be getting
rates of about 25, and was expecting more. Yesterday, for example,
I made a brown ale with:
8 lbs. Kleges
3/4 lb. Crystal
1/4 lb. Chocolate
1/4 lb. Black Patent
I was expecting a SG of about 1.046 or above, and ended up with 1.042.
Granted, 1.042 is OK for a brown ale, but I'd like to be able to
predict better, and understand what is going on with the mash. I
did a simple infusion mash at approx 152 degrees for 90 minutes.
I used a Gott Cooler with the Phils' Phalse Bottom. (see note below),
and sparged with 4 gallons of 170 degree water over the course of an
hour. I did not measure PH, but know that my well water is very hard,
and perhaps a bit alkaline. Any clues on how to improve my yield?
Note: As a scout leader, and with three kids of my own, I was hesitant
to modify the Gott in such a way that it couldn't be used as
a normal cooler. I purchased the Tomlinson faucet that is
available by mail from Gott, and by drilling it out ever so
slightly, got a snug fit to the hard plastic tubing that is
used for bottle fillers, etc. A cut a short piece of this,
mated it to some siphon tubing, and mated that to the false
bottom. This unit can be easily removed, is secure when
installed, and leaves the cooler available for other uses also.
Note 2:I didn't receive many (only one) responses on the BrewTek yeast
question a few weeks ago. Come on, anybody use these strains?
any one you particularly like, or dislike? Any problems
culturing? Inquiring minds want to know! (Yeah, that phrase
grates on my nerves too...)
Thanks,
Al Folsom
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Al Folsom | Object Oriented Programming? We've |
| Fischer & Porter Co. | been doing that for years... |
| folsom@fp.com | |
| also uunet!bigmax!folsom | When the customer objects to the way |
| KY3T@WA3TSW (Ham) | it works, we go program some more! |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 08:42:24 PDT
From: kens@lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Rice Mash
Hi All,
This weekend I am going to brew an export with an eye for lightness
(read beer for the future wife). I intend to use rice but I have not
found any "real" information on mashing techniques other than boil it.
Does anybody have a mash schedule that includes temperatures, time, pH,
mineral content of H2O, ect.. Please either post or email me directly
at kens@lan.nsc.com. The body of mashing information for all adjuncts
(rice, corn, oats, ect.) in hard to find in any of the normal
books and information sources. Is there a good source of info?
Thanks in advance ......Hoppy Brewing
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 10:28:52 PDT
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman@cisco.com>
Subject: Questions on strength; more malt? Honey? Other options?
I bought supplies the other day to make a stout, and then
later decided I wanted to make the brew a little stringer.
I've got 6.8 lbs of Laaglander dark malt.
The question is, what's the best way to get a little more strength
without producing a lot more sweeteness?
I was thinking of adding more malt, or maybe some corn sugar?
The guy at the local brewshop said 'Or you can try honey, but
I've never tried it with a stout', and went on to say that
honey gives strength without a lot else.
So? Any opinions? I would like to produces something quite
strong, but I don't want somethings hugely sweet. I know
sugar would work, but I'm leery of sugar; it seems, I dunno,
*fake* somehow.
So what's the best way?
Thanks.....
(Oh, BTW, thanks to all those who helped me out on my 'is it
stalled' question. I bottled yesterday, it tastes good already,
can't wait to see what it's like when the bottles are ready!)
-Karl
- --
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Karl Elvis MacRae Software Release Support Cisco Systems
batman@cisco.com 415-688-8231 DoD#1999 1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Hi, you look different! Are you a puppet?"
-Barb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 13:35:09 -0400
From: far@medinah.atc.ucarb.com (Forrest Richey)
Subject: How to use Amylase?
I'm going to use powdered amylase enzyme to convert starches in flaked
maize. Does anyone have any experience in doing this? What charging ratio?
How long? Is temp different than 148=B0F? Do I need to boil maize first? If
so , how long before adding enzymes?
posted for Bill Henson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 11:16:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: limd@plasma.arraytech.com (Davin Lim)
Subject: Q: Quality of Vienna/Munich malts?
In reading George and Laurie Fix's book on the history and brewing
of Vienna style beers, they make it quite clear that the quality of
the base malt in the grain bill is of the greatest importance when
brewing this style of beer. They emphasize that good quality
pilsener malt (e.g. of the Moravian variety) should be used and
that as-good-as-possible crystal malts be used to obtain the
proper color. It is mentioned that historically, Vienna malt
was indeed high-quality (e.g. Moravian) malt that was kilned
to a higher temperature and the color was already in the base
malt. In modern times, however, "Vienna" malt is produced
by using a lower-quality base malt and therefore wasn't very
suitable for producing a good quality Vienna beer when used as
the sole grain.
"Munich" malts, as we know them, are also specuated to be made
of lesser barley varieties (although I'm sure the big German
brewers could get exactly the grain they want, just us
small folks have to take what's available.) Same comments apply
here.
The authors hint that there may "soon" become the recognition
among maltsters that a Vienna malt made from Moravian(esque) barley
has a market, and a beer could be made that much better. Does
anybody know if such a malt is available? It would be good
to try brewing with such a grain and compare it to the pilser/crystal
combination.
.................................
* Davin Lim *
* limd@arraytech.com *
* Boulder, Colorado. *
.................................
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 10:42:36 PDT
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Fish Tank Foam Filter to Filter Beer
>From: KMYH09A@prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
>Subject: Fish Tank Foam Filter to Filter Beer
>
>Has anyone tried using a foam type filter thats used in a fish tank to
>filter the wort before adding it to the primary fermentor?
>
>The foam is a sponge type filter used in many canister type fish tank
>filters such as a fluval filter.
>
>My thinking is that the sponge could be santized with B-Brite, then the
>whole filter or a piece of it could be placed in a funnel and the wort
>poured through it. It should filter better than the funnel screen disc.
I knew I'd find other fish-geeks here. Somehow the two hobbies
seem to go hand in hand, what with the focus on microrganisms,
all the siphoning, etc.
Of course, with brewing, the siphoning *tastes* much better!
=B^)
Now, this is just a guess, but I'd say that using a filter like
that would be a bad idea. I would think it would be *too* fine;
you'd loose too much of the matter in your beer; and with it,
a quantify of your yeast.
Also, it would clog very quickly; these things aren't that
good an handling large particulate matter. So you'd keep
having to rinse it....
-Karl
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Karl Elvis MacRae Software Release Support Cisco Systems
batman@cisco.com 415-688-8231 DoD#1999 1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Hi, you look different! Are you a puppet?"
-Barb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 1994 14:11:09 EDT
From: KMYH09A@prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Can someone explain the different grains
When I brewed my first all grain brew, I went to me local supply store and
the recipe I was trying was just a basic Pale Ale (Just wanted to start
simple). They had a variety of 2 row grains. They had American Pale Malt,
German Pale Malt and Belgin Pale Malt. They also have a similar grouping
of Crystals and Wheats from differnt countries.
The store told me that they are basically all the same, just from different
countries.
Is this true, or does one country make a better grain than the other. What
are the major differences? The prices were the same or only 5 or 10 cents a
pound difference.
Larry
KMYH09A@prodigy.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 13:27:05 CDT
From: wood@ranger.rtsg.mot.com (Dan Wood)
Subject: Kegging Thanks, Toronto Brew
Many thanks to those who sent email to help with my foaming
problems with my first keg. Things are going well now, so
I'll try to summarize my findings. I realize that these
generalizations are inherently limited, and you experienced
keggers will cringe, and perhaps flame. Nonetheless, here
goes, for the benefit of other neophytes:
1. The dispensing temperature and pressure must be fairly
constant for about 1 day prior to dispensing. This may
require venting of carbonating pressure well in advance of
dispensing. Dispensing at 8 PSI at ~50F works well for me.
2. A partially dispensed keg should receive additional CO2
pressure prior to storage in a warmer environment. If
the keg warms without added pressure, the CO2 will come
out of solution and the beer will go flat. Storage at
20 PSI is working OK for me. Extra pressure, even up to
the 40 PSI I carbonate at would be OK, but would require
additional time to decarbonate/depressurize to dispensing
levels, a waste of time and CO2.
3. It is very easy to lose track of consumption while drinking
off a keg. Don't try to gauge by the accumulation of empties!
FYI: I'm keeping the in-use keg in about a foot of icewater
in a 5g bucket, and shopping desperately for a fridge. My
basement stays cool, if you store a keg in a warmer area,
you may need higher storage pressure.
Also, next week I'll be in Toronto, at the Hotel Plaza II
on Bloor street. I may not have a car. Any good spots in
the area? Please respond via email. Stay away from my wife.
Dan Wood, sovereign FVHAA. wood@cig.mot.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 14:36:02 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini@hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: Reverse Engineer
My recent request for a extract Duvel recipe yielded one helpful bit of
information but no recipes. While I would hate to break up the
fascinating "how clean is my mouth" suction series on starting siphons,
I thought the playful minds of the digest might be interested in
discoursing at length on how they would go about reverse engineering
a particular beer, say Duvel. What I have learned to date is that
Duvel uses two hops Saaz and Styrians (sp?) and two (!) yeasts, one
for bottle conditioning only (implying that culturing from the dregs
may not give good results(?)). Other things I know are:
8 or 9 % alcohol in the bottle
golden yellow color
tastes good
If you guys have not tried this beer, it is worth looking for IMHO. I
have had the good fortune of trying it in Europe (read fresh and
inexpensive). If I remember correctly Michael J. gives it four stars ****
in one of his books i.e. a world class beer.
TIA for your kind consideration.
Steve Scampini
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jun 94 12:03:02 -0800
From: keith.prader@wtgw.worldtalk.com
Subject: Re: Brew Cap
To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com@smtp
Bill Knecht writes:
>> has anyone tried a thing called Brew Cap? It's a soft
>> plastic cap that snugs over the carboy mouth. It has two
>> nipples on top, with a hole in the end of each. Into one goes
>> the siphon cane, into the other goes pressure from ye olde
>> lungs.... clip clip......
I was also curious that nobody else had mentioned this till this
HBD. I thought it might have been taboo to use this contraption
since your mouth (and all it's dwellers) get pretty close to your
beer at bottling time. I have used the Brew Cap for 2 years now
and have not had any problems with it yet, at least that I know
of. I try not to slobber into the breather which isnt't too difficult unless
you resemble Sylvester the Cat. 'Thuferrin Thucatash....'
Keith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 10:59:24 EST
From: DSHEA@medisense.com
Subject: Preserving Homebrew
Phil Miller recently asked:
> How long can one expect a batch of brew to keep after it is bottled?
> What could one add to make it last longer that wont kill me or the
> beer?
I brewed some beer in 1982 and bottled it using priming sugar for
carbonation, gelatin for fining and ascorbic acid for preservative.
I ran across a six pack in 1988. It was *still* good! I couldn't
believe it. The only thing that concerned me was the color of the
cork under the caps. The cork had turned almost black. It tasted
good anyway, and I suffered no ill effects. A few years later, I
actually drank the last bottle.
I don't know if my experience is typical or not, but I hope it helps.
Cheers!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 13:00:00 PDT
From: "Geiser, Chris [RB-4851]" <Geiser@po1.rb.unisys.com>
Subject: MICRO-BREWERIES & BREW PUBS IN IOWA ?
Does anyone know of any micro-breweries or brew pubs within a day's drive of
Sheraton, Iowa (I believe its in the southern part of the state) ?
Private e-mail is preferred, TIA.
Chris Geiser
geiser@rb.unisys.com
619-451-4851
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 17:42:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet@lcabin.com (JEFF GUILLET)
Subject: Cold Break Question
Am I correct in thinking that a proper cold break is necessary
only in all grain brewing? Seems I've heard that somewhere before.
I am a lowly extract brewer and sometimes after cooling my wort
before adding it to the primary, I have a sediment at the bottom of
my boiling kettle. I've always dumped it into the fermenter but
should I?
***********************************************************************
Jeff Guillet - San Francisco, CA - <j.guillet@lcabin.com>
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..."
***********************************************************************
* SPEED 1.40 [NR] * RAM DISK is NOT an installation procedure!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 15:27:09 -0600
From: graham@SEDSystems.ca (Reid Graham)
Subject: Recipes?
I am looking for a Belgian White recipe (all grain), complete with the
corriander and orange peels. Anyone got a tried and true that they
would be willing to share? A buddy at work is also looking for a
Watneys Red Barrell extract clone.
Private E-mail to graham@sedsystems.ca would be fine.
Thanks in advance!
Reid Graham
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 14:29:09 -0700
From: Stephen Hansen <hansen@gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Sierra-Nevada was not dead, just resting.
A couple of recent posts complained about not being able to get into
the Homebrew Archives at sierra.stanford.edu. Well, the ftp software
limits the number of simultaneous ftp connections to five and somehow
it lost count and got stuck thinking that there were five logged in
when there was nobody home.
I've reset the count and connections are pouring in. There's probably
some pent up demand but you should be able to get your files now.
Personally, I think that poor thing just got tired and wanted to take
a break. For the month of May we had over 13,000 ftp connections that
transfered over 1.8 Gigabytes of data. Almost all of this was beer
related.
Finally, the department is going to reorganize the computer facilities
here and there is a 50-50 chance that the archives will have to move.
If and when this happens I will try to find another place locally that
I can shift to. If that is not possible, I will find another site to
take on the job before we have to close. Don't worry, any change is
still several months in the future, and I have hopes that the archives
will still be welcome under the new setup.
Stephen Hansen
Homebrewer, Archivist
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Stephen E. Hansen - hansen@sierra.Stanford.EDU | "The church is near,
Electrical Engineering Computer Facility | but the road is icy.
Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 218 | The bar is far away,
Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055 | but I will walk carefully."
Phone: +1-415-723-1058 Fax: +1-415-723-1294 | -- Russian Proverb
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 14:32:11 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271@appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Extraction from non traditional grains
Does anyone out there in HBD land have a good handle on likely
extraction rates for grains such as rice and corn? I want to
brew something light, in the style of a cream ale, but I'm
unsure of how to (numericly) deal with rice additions. I was
thinking of using hot rice to heat my grain up to sach temps.
The problem is if I'm way out of line in rice extraction, my
hop utilization will suffer...
Thanks for your help!
Rich Webb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 15:10:28 -0700
From: Don Put <dput@csulb.edu>
Subject: "Misinformation" revisited
>From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
>Subject: RE: tannin leaching by boiling water, free ads in BT
>I just got done skimming this misinformation . . .
^^^^^^^^
Perhaps if you had READ the complete article, you wouldn't have jumped to
such needless conclusions.
>I got pretty peeved for two reasons, one is that "tips" like these have
>no basis in brewing science and are contrary to accepted practice,
>especially with regard to increased leaching of tannins from the lauter tun.
In theory, of course, you are right. However, the words "accepted practice"
leave the resonant sound, in my mind, of lemmings running for the cliff.
Granted, there has been a great deal of advancement in the brewing trade,
and craft for that matter, by the careful study of processes. We have all
gained a fair amount of control over our hobbies as a result of this, but
I think there is always room for new ideas and new ways of approaching things.
The folks who brought us lambics, pilsners, and steam styles of beer went
against "accepted practice." Of course, they were concerned with different
types of fermentation techniques, and we are dealing with sparging
techniques here.
If you had read Jack's article carefully, you would have stumbled across the
words: ". . . but if you use boiling water in THIS system, the average
temperature will be well below 170F and you will be lucky to keep it above
150F" (my emphasis). Jack is merely stating what he has found to be true
with regard to the easy mashing system. I lauter in a Gott cooler and I get
very little temperature drop, but I imagine if I used a kettle the heat
transfer would be much greater. Therefore, I would need to boost my initial
sparge water temperature, wouldn't I? The key word here is obviously "this,"
which is used as an adjective modifying "system" in Jack's article. This
would lead me to conclude that Jack did not mean that boiling water
sparges should be used in EVERY system. Jack's article was not meant to
be "brewing science" only recorded observation as it relates to the
easy mashing setup.
>Secondly, the "article" is basically free advertising for JSP and had
>no buisness being in the articles section , it belonged in some product
>review area.
While there were references to obtaining said easy mashing system from
Jack Schmidling Productions in the article, there was also a comprehensive
parts list that anyone with a little motivation could have used to assemble
all the necessary parts, i.e., build their own easy masher. Also, you'll
notice in the article it wasn't referred to as the EASYMASHER(tm). The
"article" as you call it appeared in the section reserved for brewers
entitled: "Brewers' Forum." Which, in past issues, has brought us such
notable contributions as:
"Modifying Half_Barrel Kegs for Use as Brewing Vessels," by Martin Manning
"A Three-Tiered Gravity-Flow Brewing System," by Bob Caplan
"Beer Tree: A Three-Tiered System with Roots in Simplicity," by David O'Neil
and many others. All of the articles that have appeared in this section
of the magazine are written from the [home]brewer's perspective. Hence, the
designation "Brewers' Forum." I'm sure the editor was very careful to
put Jack's article, as well as those mentioned above, in this section
because they really aren't written to be "technical" articles. They are
examinations into the tools of our trade as it relates to the home brewing
scale. My reading of Jack's article suggests that it had every right to
be included in the "Brewers' Forum." However, it is ultimately the editor's
decision, and I happen to agree with it.
>I'm sure the "Oracle" has something silly to say about all of this.
Perhaps, but so do I. And it seems that jumping to conclusions based on
"skimming" only perpetuates "misinformation," which is silly in itself,
isn't it?
>Good brewing,
That's the point, isn't it? Does it really matter how we arrive at our
product as long as our processes work for us?
>Jim Busch
don
dput@csulb.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 16:14:54 MDT
From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com>
Subject: Shelf life
>Phil Miller asks:
>How long can one expect a batch of brew to keep after it is bottled? What could
>one add to make it last longer that wont kill me or the beer?
On January 12, 1993 I bottled an attempt at a Belgian Wit in which I used a bit
too much coriander for flavoring. I found the flavor and aroma off-putting and
just left the whole works on my basement floor where the temp is 55-60 F.
This past weekend I decided to check it out and found that the coriander is less
offensive to me now and I can drink it. Obviously this was a clean brew as it is
crystal clear and quite stable after 18 months in bottle. Slightly over-
carbonated (about the same as most commercial beers) but good. I used only
malted barley, wheat, yeast and a very small addition of hops along with
coriander and orange peel in this brew. Initial gravity was ~1.044.
Anyway, my point is that clean homebrew stored in a cool dark place can have a
very long shelf life without any additives although most will be at their peak
fairly early.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Randy Davis: Mobil Oil Canada Calgary, Alberta Canada |
| rmdavis@mocan.mobil.com |
| Phone (403) 260-4184 Fax (403) 260-7348 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 18:35:16 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Cliff Tanner explains "Shaken Peptides"
>From *Jeff* Renner
Cliff Tanner has E-mailed me the following about his "shaken peptides"
passage in the recent Zymurgy (assume I put <'s in front of every line):
As for the inadvisability of shaking a keg to carbonate, there was a long
thread on CIS awile ago about this. I thought I had that archived, but
can't seem to find it right now. In general the consensus was that shaking
might indeed be bad for the beer -- and since it was unnecessary anyway,
why do it? My first inklings about this came from the shaker trays in
commercial beer laboraties. in support of that the following was presented
by David Klatte, who is a commecrial brewer:
<Given enough time all beer will oxidize, creating off flavors and haze.
Heat and agitation speed this process up tremendously. Beer is "force
aged" in analytical laboraties by heat and continuous agitation.>
<Beer has a finite ability to create a good, foamy head. Every time the
beer is agitated in the brewing process, some of that foaming potential is
used up. Excessive foaming in the brewery leads to a beer with an anemic,
rapidly collapsing head.>
Guy Hagner agreed:
<<It has been my understanding that head is formed by medium sized
peptides. I had always figured that as long as the peptides fell back into
solution the head forming ability would be retained. But your reply
indicates that many of the peptides are being broken in the head forming
reaction. This also makes good sense now that I think about (it is exactly
analgous to overwhipping egg whites).>>
And our brewing experience tells of the beer that carbonates well at a
certain pressure while another won't. Simple deduction over time would
lead one to suspect the OG of the beer and hence (indirectly) the amount of
protiens.
And finally, it isn't even necessary -- the same results can be had with a
couple days more time -- so why even consider doing it?
Hope this makes sense.
==Cliff Tanner, Braukunst
Relayed by Jeff Renner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 18:37:28 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Malting,pts/lb/gal,trub, filtering, fining, keeping beer
>From *Jeff* Renner
In view of the interest here recently on malting, let me point out two
Zymurgy sources that I have used over the years for direction in malting
wheat, though they are actually for barley. The 1985 Special Grain Brewing
Issue (8:4) contains a non technical "Primer on Malt by The Non-Technical
Staff at Great Western Malt" that is a good general guide to malt, and "Home
Malting for Homebrewers" by R.C.Dale, which is detailed and specific, and
includes Dale's malting cabinet/kiln. The whole issue contains many good
articles on grain brewing. I think this it is still available from AHA.
Mark Alston points out that he gets better extract by slowing his sparge
rate down to a gallon/15 minutes, while I suggested 5-6 minutes/gallon
maximum. I think it's a question of how much time one has to devote to
sparging. I generally pull 9-10 gallons for 7-1/2 brew, so that's a lot of
extra time. My efficiency is around 30p/lb/g, where Mark's is around 35. I
use an insulated and caulked Zapap, and used to get around 33 when I used a
Corona Mill, but I sometimes had to wait to let the sparge flow. Now, using
a MM(tm!) roller mill, I have to keep the outlet turncock at about one half.
I'm sure that both a slower sparge and finer grind would improve the
efficiency, and I'm still considering how or if to adjust the roller
settings. I use a friend's, so it's not that easy. Sorry, Jack, I know I
should buy one of my own. %^) It's a series of trade offs that I still
haven't decided on.
Speaking of points/lb/gallon, Larry Kelly asks when to figure this, in the
boiler or in the fermenter. I take at the fermenter. This, of course,
lowers my value. I always lose a fair amount from my early estimate when
the boiler if full after the sparge (I do cool my sample). I would guess
that most of this is due to loss in hops and trub. However, you report 29
at the beginning of the boil, 26 at the end, and 20 after dilution.
Something here isn't right, and I don't think it is all due to the lack of
linearity when diluting. Someone else (Martin Manning?) needs to help on
this.
Speaking of trub, Larry also asks what the chunky stuff is that settles out
in his primary. That, Larry, is cold break, which, with hot break, is
coagulated and precipitated protein collectively called trub. Hot break
should be left behind in the boiler but some cold break is actually
beneficial for the early yeast growth. Miller suggests you remove it after
an initial settling period (like overnight), and Papazian says remove it if
it bothers you. I usually don't bother. I'd be leery of using a sponge
aquarium filter because I don't know what's in it. I do filter the last of
my wort of hot break. I "whirlpool" in the boiler before using my counter
current cooler, then take the last one or two quarts that I can't run off
cleanly and filter it (now cool, so no HSA) through a square of clean cloth
tied over a food grade plastic bucket. I sometimes even squeeze the last
part. Then I reboil and cool it and add it to the fermenter. I used to let
it settle in a jar in the fridge overnight as some author recommended, but
find this is better.
Larry also wonders what the proper amount of sparge water is. I generally
prepare about as much as the final volume I want. Then I usually have
enough to keep sparging until the pH rises up toward 6 and/or the SG drops
below 1.005-008. If your efficiency was better that day than expected, the
extra bitter wort that doesn't fit in the fermenter can be saved for priming
or a starter. Or, you can make a little stronger beer than you figured and
dilute it later.
Another question Larry has is about fining agents. I like gelatin, although
isinglass has intrigued me. At racking (either into a secondary or
tertiary), I mix a 1/4 oz packet (unflavored!) in a half cup or so of cold
water, then raise the temp (nuking works well) until it becomes clear -
don't boil, it breaks it down and it's useless. Then I siphon a bit of beer
into the mix and siphon it to the new container, making sure it's well
distributed. It usually drops clear within a day or two. Using this
method, I can count on enough yeast for bottle conditioning, but with a
yeast layer on the bottom of the bottle about the thickness of a coat of
paint.
Larry, with your inquisitive mind, it sounds like you'd really enjoy a good
brewing book. Check my note in HBD 1441 for recommendations.
Phil Miller want to know how long a beer should last in the bottle and what
he could add to his beer to make it last longer. Phil, it's more what isn't
in your beer - bacteria, wild yeast, oxidation. Take care in your
procedures and store cool or cold out of light, and it can last a long time.
Although lager are best fresh from lagering, ales can actually improve,
especially strong ones. I recently opened a 13 year old dark ale made with
extract and *dextrose* (we didn't know so much back then) that was still in
fine condition, although it had fermented out very dry and was highly
carbonated.
Eric Miller wonders about spoiled canned extract. Phil, I've seen enough
swollen cans to know it's possible, especially if the factory didn't process
them right. The older they get, the more chance they have of going off, and
they certainly aren't going to improve. I'd sure move that can from 85^F to
a cooler place!
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jun 1994 17:25:20 -0800
From: "Turchik, Robert J" <rturchik@msmail2.hac.com>
Subject: Rootbeer fizzle
With all the great success that I have been having with my homebrew beer kit
I received as a Christmas present, my wife and children talked me into trying
to make some home made Rootbeer. Here's what i did...
Brought 5 gal of water to a boil then added rootbeer extract and 4 lbs. of
sugar cooled to 75 degrees pitched 1 package of champagne yeast let sit for
a week then bottled and let sit for 2 weeks.
Then when we poured it, it fizzed up real fast and it went away just as fast,
there was no foamy head like you get with a good Rootbeer. when we smelled it
, it smelled like yeast. finnally we tasted it and it had a bad after taste
of yeast. Did i do something wrong?????? Can anyone steer me in the right
direction for my second attemp??????
Thanx,
FIZZLED OUT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 17:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush@netcom.com>
Subject: Attention Mathematicians!
Has anyone come up with a formula regarding the relationship of the rise
in Origial Gravity needed to balance a reduced amount of sparge water
to result in the same Original Gravity in a standard recipe?
I've got a pretty cheap source of grain, but during these summer months
my time is at a premium. I have been making some pretty high gravity
brews which I have to boil down from 9 -10 gallons down to 5-6.
I'd like to cut down on the volume to boil by cutting my sparge back, but
of course want to keep the gravity that the recipe calls for.
Help out a brewing buddy and get out the old slide rule!
pbrush@netcom.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1443, 06/07/94
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