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HOMEBREW Digest #1446
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/06/10 00:32:33
HOMEBREW Digest #1446 Fri 10 June 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
ORACLE SPEAKS (Jack Schmidling)
insulated lauter tun (Btalk)
Re: Piss yellow (Tom Wurtz)
Re: Lids on German Steins (M.D.Gugel) (Mark Gugel)
Re:accepted brewing practices (Michael Froehlich)
Skunkiness...je ne sais quoi... (SYSTEM.OPERATOR)
Zima debate (Paul Crowell)
Jack's Big Keg Project (Jack Skeels)
Supply stores ("Mark B. Alston")
going away (Julie A Espy)
no mail, please (Julie A Espy)
pH meter recommendations (Don Put)
Brewing Software ("Charles S. Jackson")
Re: Pale ale? (Philip Gravel)
Steeping aroma hops (Domenick Venezia)
Hops in yeast starter? (Domenick Venezia)
tannins and extraction (again!) (ANDY WALSH)
Ring around the neck (Paul Jeffrey)
Beer Balls (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Brewery design (Bob Jones)
RE: brewery design, kolsch, and sparge temps (Jim Busch)
I WANT YOUR RECIPES!!!!!! ( LARRY KELLY)
Wort Aeration (George J Fix)
St. Arnold Amber Ale (George J Fix)
You could do this for a living ("Justin J. Lam")
You could do this for a living ("Justin J. Lam")
Remote bulb thermostats (Allen Ford)
schidling/mills/rabble (Rich Ryan)
Extract for Duvel, Sankey kegging, Fridge in closet (Nancy.Renner)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 13:58 CDT
From: arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: ORACLE SPEAKS
part two
One gets the idea that your remarks are more a reaction to me than of what I
said. Instead of defending Don's criticism that you obviously didn't even
read the article, we get this....
> Perhaps if you had been brewing as much and long as I have....
You have been brewing so long that you know what is in an article without
reading it? You have proven that you did not know what was in it or you
would not have said what you said.
> Its the same article that was rejected by Zymurgy, and what do
you know, it ends up in the "more technical" journel, BT. Go figure!
Perhaps it is you who should "go figure" before you spout off. The article
was NOT rejected by Zymurgy. They made the editorial decision to do a major
review on the product instead of using the article. If you read the current
issue of Zymurgy, you will find a very positive and expansive review of the
EASYMAHSER (tm), EASYSPARGER (tm) that will sell several orders of magnitude
more product than the article in BT. Not only do they have 10 times the
circulation but the opinions of a respected publisher are worth far more than
anything I can say.
>Its hardly on the cutting edge of brewing science to realize that sparge
waters above 180F increase tannin extraction, see DeClerc...
Not sure what you think you prove by repeating the same thoughtless remark
after having heard the answer twice. The temp of the sparge water is NOT the
issue, it is the temperature of the mash that counts.
> And I thought one of the "wonders" of kettle mashing is the ease of a mash
off, ending in a tun at 170F.
What you should be asking, is what might the temp of the mash be if no mash
out were used.
> If the tun is 170, and the sparge 212F, just where is this temp delta
coming from?
For openers, it is customary to allow the mash to rest and settle for 30
minutes or so before beginning to sparge. I do not begin to sparge until
the liquid above the grain is clear and dark. During this time, the sparge
water is brought to a boil, either in a separate kettle or an EASYSPARGER
(tm). In my experience, the temperature of the mash will drop about 10
degrees in 30 minutes and if we extrapolate that over the additional 1 to 2
hrs of the sparging process, it becomes obvious that 170F sparge water will
fall far short of maintaining a 170F mash temp. Furthermore, sparging is
obviously a heat losing process, as we are continually removing hot (heat)
wort.
> SS is a poor conductor, even if it is not insulated, which it should be at
this stage of the process.
Being a "poor conductor" in only a relative term. It is also a lousy
insulator. For all your "years of experience", I find it hard to believe
that you never bother to notice how much a kettle of water cools off when
left to it's own devices.
Also, is that "should be" one of those "accepted practices" or a Busch Law
that we must all abide by. Frankly, I would find insulating a 10 gallon
kettle after mashing a far bigger pain in the butt than just modifying an
"accepted practice" and make the sparge water a bit hotter.
>>if I used a kettle the heat transfer would be much greater. Therefore, I
would need to boost my initial sparge water temperature, wouldn't I?
>Wrong again, Don. If you use sparge water above 180F, you are going to
increase the tannins extracted. I also use a kettle to mash in and a
"kettle" to lauter in . I can assure you it is better to sparge with
170F water than with 190F.
You can assure him all you wish, but you are ignoring physics and arguing
like an idiot. You are also proving that much of your vast time in grade has
been a waste of time. Just for the record, why is one kettle in quotes?
And before you expound further from your lemming repertory, tell us how much
the temperature drops per hour in your uninsulated mash kettle.
js
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 15:04:06 EDT
From: Btalk@aol.com
Subject: insulated lauter tun
I use a Zapap type lauter tun (actually in my case an EIKLAT (tm) type)
Instead of one pail inside the other, I cut the hole filled bottom off a pail
with a Ginzu knife (no kidding!) to make a false bottom that fits very nicely
into the bottom of the 5 gal bucket,with less space to underlet. ( if that is
the right phraseology).
For insulation I use a piece of the blue foam construction stuff underneath.
For insulating the sides, I wrap a 48" Thermarest self inflating camping
mattress around the bucket and just tie it with two pieces of webbing. The
Thermarest is about 2'' thick and insulates so well that you can barely feel
any warmth on the outside of it after running gallons of 168F sparge water
through the grain bed. Plus the Thermarest is easy to wash.
An alternative would be to use an Ensolite camping pad. This stuff is quite
supple. You may be able to glue it onto your tun.
Thermarests cost about $45, Ensolite is probably around $10-12. These are
guesstimates. No affiliation, etc.
Besides, if you are into backpacking, the Thermarest is definitely the way to
go.
Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz <btalk@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 12:35:50 MDT
From: twurtz@neocad.com (Tom Wurtz)
Subject: Re: Piss yellow
Andy Kligerman writes:
> Derek Sikes asked about getting a light color beer (paleer pale ale).
> This is quite difficult to do with extracts unless you go to a full 5 gallon
> boil and use the palest of extracts such as Alexander's or William's pale
> extracts. The canning process itself would most likely tend to darken
> extracts and carmelization tends to occur if you don't do a full 5 gallon
> boil
In my experience, it is not as difficult as you make it out to be. I
have brewed several very light ales with extracts. Maybe not as light
as Derek wants, but definitely refreshing on a hot day. I use
bulk liquid extract that can be obtained from most of the brew stores
around here. Steinbarts in Oregon used to carry an American Pale malt
extract that I found to yield the lightest color. Having moved to
Colorado I settle for whatever Pale is in. It's a bit darker, but not
much. I usually brew ~12 qts of wort and dilute to 5 gal. This style
is the perfect base for green chile beer, BTW. I stopped buying cans
years ago, so I can't say if the canning process affects the color.
Tom
wurtz@neocad.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 16:20:38 EDT
From: Mark Gugel <mdgugel@mtu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lids on German Steins (M.D.Gugel)
Jim Cave asks why German beer steins have lids. Although I'm neither
a historian nor an archiologist, I couldn't stay away from this one.
In general, a German mug is properly known as a Krug. Steins (litteraly
"stones") refer to ceramic mugs. Authentic old German mugs not only had
lids, but also strainers. In years past it was common practice for Germans
to drink their beer hot, with tea or herbs pitched into the Krug. The
strainer helped avoid the unpleasureable experience of tea leaves between
the teeth. The lid helped keep the beer hot. That's a bit different from
how we in the 1990's enjoy our beer.
Prosit!
M. D. Gugel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 14:02:47 -0700
From: froeh@texan.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: Re:accepted brewing practices
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 16:33:12 GMT
From: SYSTEM.OPERATOR%dossier@deltacom.cam.org
Subject: Skunkiness...je ne sais quoi...
To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Greetings:
I'm a fan of European lagers like Heineken, Grolsch and (the original)
Amstel. In my modest homebrew efforts, I have sought to reproduce that
"skunky" nose which distinguishes these brews. My homebrew supply store
owner claims this flavour is a byproduct of storage - nothing more than
happenstance.
Hmmm.
Have any HBD readers ever heard of such an explanation?
Is there an extract of mephitis mephitis out there somewhere? ;-) ...
Thank you for your attention.
Paul Huneault
GatorNet - UseNet <-> FidoNet gate, Montreal - INFO: (514) 359-7450
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 14:55:08 MDT
From: fmicos!trojan!crowell@uunet.uu.net (Paul Crowell)
Subject: Zima debate
In Date: Tue, 07 Jun 1994 10:55:18 -0400
ambroser@apollo.dml.georgetown.edu (Bob Ambrose) writes:
>Subject: More Zima
>
>
>It appears this "beverage" (or whatever you want to call it) is really
>catching on. Now you can buy it in 22oz bottles!
>
>I don't think it will be long before we see quarts and 40oz bottles.
>Would you like to drink 40oz of Zima? Maybe if someone had a gun to my
>head! :)
Bob,
Any beverage has its proper place and time. I'm an avid masher and
I like a galss of Zima every once in a while, so: :-<flame, flame> if
you don't!!!
If you don't like it, don't buy it; your anti-patronage says more
than your obvious emotion ;-), and who cares whether you put a gun to
your head anyway, dip-shit!
-Paul
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 17:46 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587@mcimail.com>
Subject: Jack's Big Keg Project
No, this is one of the OTHER, hopefully LESS controversial Jacks who are on
the HBD,...me. Thanks to all who sent their advice on converting the Sankey
keg for use as a boiler.
The project went well, we used a Milwaukee-brand Sawsall with the bi-metal
18 TPI blades (these are the best -- we tried many different ones) to cut
the top off, preserving the handles. We used a small Makita end-grinder to
deburr the whole thing (and provide the initial cuts), and used a hammer and
some wood to bend over the remaining top flange around the lid. It is
Beautiful! Again thanks to the dozen or so who sent support and
encouragement.
We brewed a 13 gal batch of less-hopped SNPA-Clone ("Da' Beer")
10 lbs. Alexander's PME
8 lbs. Klages 2-row
3 lbs Cara-Pils
2 lbs Crystal 10L
1 lbs Victory Malt (Brewtek)
1 oz Perle (60 mins)
1 oz Cascade (60 mins)
2 oz Cascade (30 mins)
1 oz Cascade (Steep while cooling)
SNPA Yeast
I used a Brewtek Lauter/Sparge rig made from Phil's-brand components and did
the 14lbs partial (not) mash using it with what seemed like great success.
My question: When this brew is done with it's primary, can I used my other
Sankey as a secondary? That is, has anybody done this, and does it work? I
figure that I can rack the secondary back to the cut-off pot, and then keg
it right back, after I've cleaned out the sediment from the secondary
fermentation. Is this so?
Again, many thanks and TIA to all those who can help.
Jack Skeels
JSKEELS@MCIMAIL.COM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 17:31:32 MDT
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb@math.utah.edu>
Subject: Supply stores
O.K. everybody. I have a quick poll for you. What are your favorite
and least favorite qualities about your local brewing supply store?
Also, if you could think of the perfect brewing supply store what
would it consist of? Obviously I have personal motives in all this.
I am getting ready to open a new supply store here in S.L.C. and am
trying to get everyones input. I have several problems with some of
the local outfits; storing hops in plastic baggies, poor selection of
grains, etc... And want to address most everyones desires for the
perfect shop.
I'll post a top-ten list if I get enough responses.
You Utah brewers:
this is our chance to have the supply shop we have always wanted so
let me hear from you all.
thanks in advance for all your input,
Mark Alston
(c-amb@math.utah.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 16:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Julie A Espy <jespy@violin.aix.calpoly.edu>
Subject: going away
set homebrew nomail
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 17:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Julie A Espy <jespy@tuba.aix.calpoly.edu>
Subject: no mail, please
SET HOMEBREW NOMAIL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 20:52:09 -0700
From: Don Put <dput@csulb.edu>
Subject: pH meter recommendations
Hello, All:
Well, after numerous attempts to get my pH meter to read accurately (this
is the second one of the same brand that has major problems), I've decided
to give up on this one, and this brand (Oakton pH Testr 2). The first one
didn't work properly at all; the second one worked for a few months, then
started acting strange. I finally had an opportunity to check it against
a top quality lab meter and it never did agree. The Oakton reads ~9.2 when
I try and calibrate it using a known calibration solution of pH 7; the lab
one reads 7 every time. Any recommendations from those of you who use
meters to monitor mash pH? Is the Hannah (sp) any good? Should I just
give up on the cheap meters and but something more expensive? Or, should
I just use papers and forget about it?
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
TIA,
don
dput@csulb.edu
PS - Does anyone know of this Oakton's address so that I can ship this thing
back to them? Believe it or not, there is NO address on the box, the
meter, or the instruction sheet (even though it's printed in six
languages). The company I bought it from is no longer in business, and
besides, I'm sure it's "out of warranty."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 22:06:08 CDT
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson@ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject: Brewing Software
Are there any other computer geeks out there who use software to keep
brewing records? I have found two, sudsw30 and brewhaha, and was looking for
some opinions. I really hate to take a quick look at a prog, think I like it
and find later that it is deficient in some area. As a new brewer (and yet
uncaught felon here in Alabama) I am unsure of what I really need in a prog.
Are there other programs? What do you HBD'ers think of them? If this had been
discussed recently a quiet reference to the issue #'s will quickly shut me up.
Thanks
Steve
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
The Alabama Outlaw
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 21:02 CDT
From: pgravel@mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Re: Pale ale?
In HOMEBREW Digest #1443, (Tue 07 June 1994), Derek Sikes said:
>I'm on my 8th or 9th batch of homebrew and have made only darker beers so far.
>I've enjoyed, browns, porters, some splendid stouts and bitters, a dark steam
>etc. But I finally got the urge for a pale. I attempted an IPA using
>Charlie P.'s recipee but I used amber malt and so missed the piss-yellow
>color I was hoping for. So I have tried again...
>
>My problem is that this batch, currently sitting quietly in a carboy,
>waiting for me to get around to bottling, was supposed to be an IPA---
>But it looks like a nice dark brown. I brew from extract and used
>Ironmaster's IPA beer kit. I added 3 lbs of light Steinhart Co.
>malt extract to get 7lbs total. The shock came when I poured the Ironmaster
>malt into the boil, I thought it didn't look pale.. oh well. It still
>doesn't look pale. Is it possible that they mislabeled their malt? Has anyone
>had this problem, should I write to Ironmaster? Also, perhaps once I bottle
>it the beer will magically transform into a piss-yellow pale...
Since the distance through the carboy is longer than through a glass or
bottle, the beer will look darker there than it will in a glass. Never-
theless, the beers I have made (all from extracts) have been somewhat darker
than I would have expected them to be. I wonder if the process of making
an extract from a wort doesn't result in a (slightly?) darker color....
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel pgravel@mcs.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Steeping aroma hops
After having a batch develop an unidentified flavor (grassy, grainy,
dusty, musty, !?) after some rather aggressive dry hopping I have been
trying some alternatives. The last and most successful attempt was a 5
minute boil of 1.5oz E. Kent Goldings followed by removing from the heat,
putting on the lid, sealing very well with foil and letting the hops steep
for 30 minutes before starting to cool. Just racked the stuff to the
secondary Monday and so got a chance to sample it. Yum, yum. The hop
aroma was wonderful, rich, full, floral but somehow different from a
dryhop aroma, and the hop flavor was very good too. I am pleased.
Has anyone else done this? What happened? I suppose I could just go
crazy and put the sealed brew kettle in my warm box for HOURS! What a
brew that might be.
Cheers!
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 19:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Hops in yeast starter?
I have always blindly, unthinkingly used some hops when making up my yeast
starters. The question is "why bother?". I checked the yeast FAQ (Thanks
for all your work Patrick Weix) and the question is not addressed. FWIW
my starters are made thusly:
150g DME/1200ml H2O
6.8g Yeast Nitrogen Base (Extra yeast nutrient)
3.0g Hops (Whatever low alpha I've got)
So let's start a thread, who hops their yeast starters and why?
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 15:05:17 +1000
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: tannins and extraction (again!)
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Text File Attachment: JIMBO
- -------------------------------------------------------------
I apologise for being a bit out-of-synch with you lot - the digests seem
to arrive here late at night. I am writing this in response to Jim Busch's
latest offering on hot sparging.
Mostly people are quite polite on the HBD. Where does Jim get his bitter
arrogance from?
>
>>If you had read Jack's article carefully, you would have stumbled across the
>>> words: ". . . but if you use boiling water in THIS system, the average
>>> temperature will be well below 170F and you will be lucky to keep it above
>>> 150F" (my emphasis).
>> >
>
>Now just what the 'ell does this mean, anyway! Where is this mysterious
>average temp to be located? Is he attempting to claim temp readings far
>away from the surface area that has now increased the tannins extracted in
>the lauter (hot water hits surface, surface is cooler, heat exchange takes
>place, and leaching of tannins). Or is this "sparge bowl" some amazing
>heat sink whereby water drops precipitously from 212F to 176F! I mean, whats
>35F difference between friends?? And I thought one of the "wonders" of
>kettle mashing is the ease of a mash off, ending in a tun at 170F. If the
>tun is 170, and the sparge 212F, just where is this temp delta coming from?
>SS is a poor conductor, even if it is not insulated, which it should be at
>this stage of the process.
>> >
Jim's statements are pure conjecture. I am not arguing that hot sparge water
does not cause astringency: of course it does, but it depends upon your
system. If you have a *well insulated* system at 170F and you sparge
with boiling water at a fast rate, you will extract tannins, no argument.
I have hot sparged in a zapap type lauter tun, with a 1" head of water on
the grist. I have the thermometer in the water. It is possible by controlling
the flow rate to maintain this temperature at 170F. Heat loss occurs between
your bucket of sparge water and the top of the grist. The temperature
gradient occurs across the head of water. Much heat loss occurs via
evaporation from the top of the grist. The act of passing water droplets
through air also has a significant cooling effect.
If you want to maintain this temperature at 170F you must start with sparge
water hotter than this. Your actual sparge water is therefore at 170F,
not 200F. Even if you forgo the 1" head of water it is difficult to believe
that the resulting temperature gradient across a minimal amount of grist
will suddenly turn your beer into astringent, undrinkable swill!
You cannot blindly state:
>Wrong again, Don. If you use sparge water above 180F, you are going to
>increase the tannins extracted. I also use a kettle to mash in and a
>"kettle" to lauter in . I can assure you it is better to sparge with
>170F water than with 190F.
This is true, (very rude though), but it depends all upon quantification,
ie. whether the extra tannin level is of significant difference. ie. Can you
taste it? You will extract more tannins by sparging with 170F H2O than
cold tap water, but are you going to thus use cold tap water next time?
You have your system, I have my own and Jack has his. We each produce beer
we are happy with. Let it rest! This newsletter is about helping people,
by providing info on one's direct experiences, not hypothetical slandering
on what you think *might* happen.
Personally, I think the preoccupation some have with extraction efficiency
is a little odd. I find it much easier to forgo the sparge completely, as it
saves a lot of time and energy (see my other post). For this reason I found
Spencer.W.Thomas's post on first-runnings quite useful. It would be
interesting to know if the weaker, "second-runnings" beer shows any phenolic
or astringent flavors (I chuck my grist out after the first one). Does it?
Also, what gravities do you get off the second runnings?
Andy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:29:24 +0300 (WET)
From: Paul Jeffrey <mspaulj@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Ring around the neck
Scott's comments in HBD #1444 concerning a ring of sludge at the point
where beer surface meets bottle has me interested. I brew extract and
partial mash brews in very warm conditions and I get a similar effect.
Like Scott's, my beers have no apparent off flavours although carbonation
is usually on the low side. I would be grateful for any HBD feedback on
this phenomenon, as it is difficult to get others interested in tasting
your wares when they have the appearance of badly strained pond-water.
Brew on....
PaulJ.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 7:34:44 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Beer Balls
With all the current talk about the party pig and 5 liter mini kegs I
thought I would mention a third choice.
The Brewery in Potsdam NY (800-762-2560) has an item called "put a lid on
it" formally known as, I think, The Batch Latch, Beer Bubble, and/or Beer
Sphere. I think each name has been a redesign, but I'm not sure.
What this thing is, is a beer ball (like Coors party ball) with a snap on
lid. It comes in either 2.5 or 5 gallon sizes, with a whole bunch of
different options, ok 2.
First you can get it with a hand pump (like a regular beer ball). The
dip tubes are fixed so if you want flexibility, to have both sizes, you
need to get two pumps (the most expensive part ~$15.00). This one costs
$25.00 for the complete set-up.
Second set up is a "bulb injection" system this uses the little CO2
cartridges, like the 5 liter mini kegs. Now, the person I spoke to said
this set-up has a changeable dip tube so only one system is needed, but
you will need extra balls :-}. This one costs $50.00 for the complete
set-up (only one size).
The only draw back is you need to use a "puncture cap" each batch $2.00
each. I have not tried this yet, but I think you can reuse these caps a
few times by being creative. You will need a second "puncture cap
holder" $4.00. What you do is fill the ball the first time let it
carbonate and puncture the cap and use, the next time you fill it put a
new cap on it let it carbonate, but this time open it (like a big beer)
and replace the new puncture cap with the used one. It appears this will
work since when you open a beer it lets a little CO2 out but not a lot,
if you recap it quick and let it sit for a few minutes it will
pressurize and be ready for use. When you put in the tap you puncture
the thin membrane, but under the membrane are the "sealing rings" which
look pretty sturdy and will stand-up to repeated use.
Anybody have this set-up and can give comments it would be great. But
from what I have seen it is a inexpensive way to serve homebrew at a
picnic.
P.S. I was told that you can dispense around half of the beer before you
need to start pumping (adding air). So if you want to drink it by your
self and you have a 2.5 gallon set-up you could probably drink the first
1-1.5 gallons then invite some friends over to finish the last 8 or so
pints.
Bill Boyle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 07:24:50 +0900
From: bjones@novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Brewery design
Teddy Winstead asks for some comments on his brewery design.......
Teddy, I would suggest you switch vessel B & C's functionality. Remember
that a conventional 4 level brewery looks like this and is gravity flow..
| |
| | Hot liquor tank
| |
---------
| |
| | Mash tun
| |
---------
| |
| | Kettle
| |
---------
| |
| | Fermenter
| |
---------
If you place your mash tun on the floor and pump up to the kettle you well
essentially have the same layout. This is the way my brewery is layed out.
It works well, I would not change one thing. Think about it.
As for a false bottom in your mash tun, I would suggest a circular slotted
copper tubing. That's what I have in my mash tun. It works great. No need
for expensive plates or silly screens, it sits right on the bottom of the
mash tun. My tun is gas fired and I can stir all the way to the bottom when
raising the temp. I would suggest you make the tube false bottom removable
for cleaning with a compression fitting. Go for a mag drive pump, buy a good
one, its an investment. As for black areas on your kettle, they should not
be there with a properly mixed heat source.
Don't know if you'll be in Denver for the conference, but would be happy to
share ideas over a few. I always bring pictures of the brewery.
Bob Jones
bjones@novax.llnl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 10:32:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE: brewery design, kolsch, and sparge temps
Teddy writes:
> Subject: A few stainless steel questions...
>
> 1. What comes after the ball valve? I want to use some kind of flexible
> tubing (like the braided PVC stuff that's resistant to 200 F). How should
> I connect the ball valve to the tube? Can I use plastic fittings?
>
> 2. I haven't purchased the ball valves yet, and some guys in my homebrew
> club swear by the brass ones that they get at Home Depot (no affiliation,
> etc. etc.). Are these kosher? What, if anything, should I specifically
> look out for when buying one of these things? I realize that the stainless
> ones are great and all, but this is a matter of $25 a piece versus $25 for
> all three. _BIG_ difference in my book.
Just a few ideas. I use brass ball valves, but then 1-1/2" valves cost
much more than 1/2" ones. If you are concerned, you could go with the
SS valve on the boiler exit only. I would aviod plastics. Much of my
brewery is put together with soft flexible copper refrige tubing, and
flare nut fittings. This is perfect for propane lines and wort chillers.
It may not be so good for pump fittings. Have you thought about hard
copper lines, and compression fittings? Be sure to insulate the tanks
well, the silverish/space blanket bubble insulation works well. Are you
using 220V on the heater element?
> 4. How do I clean the blackened areas of my vessels? Ie once they've
> been used on the burner, what do I do to clean them up?
Well, since its a brewery, you let them stay black! You might pre-coat
them with liquid soap, worked in the Boy Scouts...Hot (180F) caustics
works too, but be careful, caustic burns are not nice.
>
> P.S. I plan to do some tests with my mash-tun. First, I'm going to use
> an Easy(tm)Mash(tm)er(tm) style setup, then I'm going to try a window-screen
> false-bottom, then I'm going to try a perforated, SS sheet stock false
> bottom, then I'm going to try a "refined" Easy(tm)Mash(tm)er(tm) setup.
> I'll be posting some empirical results sometime in August or September
> after I've made some serious beer...
And be sure to make a 70%/30% wheat/malt hefeWeizen! Or a 1.1100 BW!
> FYI, tips like this *do* have a basis in brewing science. If you are like
> many HBers your lautertun may not be well insulated (zap-zap or Phil's for
> instance). If you sparge with 170F H2O your grain-bed (what's it called
> again?) will be lower in temperature, say as low as 150F (I have measured
> this - who else has?). This can occur over a long sparge, even with mashout.
> This affects extraction efficiency. If I want high extraction I sometimes
> sparge with 200F+ H2O, making sure the very top of the bed does not exceed
> 175F. This ensures the rest of the grist (is that what it's called?)
> will also be below this figure.
Grist is the term for the mixture of ground grains. At lautering
stage, I would just call it 'mash'. No big whoop. My own opinion is that
one is much better off using cooler sparge water than hotter, and by all
means insulate that tun! Extract efficiency can be still be high if one
merely knifes the lauter every so often. This is a major reason that
commercial breweries run the lauter racks through much of the lautering
period. I have found that my hot liquor tank (water heater) delivers much
hotter water in the winter than in the summer, possibly due to the temp
of the inlet water, which triggers the thermostat. So, my sparge water
is hotter (close to 178F) in the winter, and closer to 160F in the
summer. My extract difference is minimal, but I knife my lauter with
a long SS spoon.
> Out of curiosity; if ale yeasts tend to off each other at cold
> temperatures, how do Kolsch ales ever ferment?
Kolsch and Alt are feremented to near terminal gravity at ale temps (~64F)
prior to several weeks of "lagering" or "cold Conditioning".
>From my buddy, Jack:
> It was clear from your remarks that it wasn't the article that bothered you
> quite as much as the name of the author. As Don pointed out, you obviously
> "responded" without even taking the time to read it.
Not true at all! If a description (couple of sentences) specifing the reasons
for using boiling water were presented, then it might have been a reasonable
statement. Since I am an owner of a certain JSP product, I have read this
ad before, and on the HBD. I also read it in BT, although the level of my
attention does vary depending on the source.
>
>There is not much more I need say but now that you have awakened the sleeping
>tiger by tweeking his tounge with you finger, I might as well bite it off.
I thought it was the tigers tail!
Good sparging, and watch that sparge related astringency,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 10:31:05 EDT
From: KMYH09A@prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: I WANT YOUR RECIPES!!!!!!
If anyone out there has some real good brewing recipes can you please email
me them!!!!????
I'll take anything, All Grain or Extract (preferably All Grain).
I would like your Pale Ales, Largers, Fruits, anything thats not to dark.
Please email me soon! My carboys are empty waiting to be filled!!
Larry
KMYH09A@prodigy.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:37:32 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Wort Aeration
I am currently working on a new book (Principles of Brewing Science II.
Practical Considerations) which I hope to get to the publisher by December.
Wort aeration is one subject that I wanted to treat in detail. Since this
is something that has recently been discussed in this forum, I felt some of
our preliminary results may be of interest.
I separated this project into two parts, namely static and dynamic tests. The
former are complete, and the objective of the static measurements was to
record the maximum amount of O2 that could be dissolved as a function of
temperature and gravity. Lengthy O2 feeds were used to make sure the saturation
limit was achieved. We are currently doing the dynamic tests, where O2 levels
are recorded as a function of time at various feed rates.
All tests were done with a Zahm and Nagel tank with a .2 micron diffusing stone
attached to the gas line. I am going to present a number of slides in my talk
at the AHA conference in Denver, and one of them will show this particular
setup.
In the static tests the saturation limit decreased with increasing temperature.
This was expected, and indeed this effect can be deduced from theoretical
considerations. A second effect that is not as well known is that the
saturation limit also decreases with wort gravity. We reran each of the cases
at least twice to check on the reproducibility of the numbers, and so I am
confident that the measurements are accurate. If this is the case, then
saturation values for water are not a reliable guide for what actually
occurs for real beer wort.
I will present this data in graphical form in my book, but here (due a lack
of graphics) a few numerical examples will have to suffice.
12.5 C 15 C 20C
DO SG DO SG DO SG
----- ------- ---- ------- ----- -------
8.1 1.030 7.5 1.030 6.5 1.030
7.7 1.040 7.1 1.040 6.2 1.040
6.9 1.060 6.3 1.060 5.6 1.060
5.7 1.080 5.5 1.080 5.0 1.080
In the above DO stands for dissolved O2 levels in mg/l, while SG stands
for wort gravity.
Dissolved O2 can be hazardous to yeast once DO levels approaches the high
teens (in mg/l). Our results indicate that there is no way such levels
can be reached with beer wort no matter how much O2 is injected.
George Fix
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:38:01 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: St. Arnold Amber Ale
St. Arnold's first brew is kegged, and on the market. It can be found
at the obvious Houston watering holes (e.g., The Gingerman, The Ale House,
et al.) The brewery is scheduled to receive delivery of its bottling line
in three weeks. Until then their beer will be available only on draft and
only in Houston.
The beer is an all malt ale featuring Belgian color malts (what else is
there!) The wort SG was 1.054 (13.5 P), and this fermented down to 1.011
(2.7 P). Copious amounts of Cascades were added at the middle and late
portions of the boil, and equally copious amounts of Liberty hops were added
to the whirlpool. The final beer IBU is expected to be in the mid 30s, although
we haven't had the time measure it yet.
A special feature of this ale is the yeast strain used. It is hoped that
this will give it some uniqueness so it can effectively compete with
"carpet baggers" like S.A. Pittsburgh Lager! Any feedback via e-mail on
this ale would be gratefully received.
George Fix
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:23:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Justin J. Lam" <jl62+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: You could do this for a living
Hey, if you get a chance, check out the front page of the busienss
section in today's Denver Post. It talks about the Rock-Bottom brewery
[a local beerpub] going public on the OTC/NASDAQ market. The owners
[sorry, forget their names] stand to make a pretty good sum if the IPO
goes according to plan.
Synopsis: 1) Find a location that is really trendy and 'hip',
surrounded by 500,000 yuppies who think they are trendy and 'hip'.[
downtown denver]
2) Don't forget to remind the masses of the common causes of
trendy and 'hip'.
3) Host great events like the Great American Beer festival.
4) Brew some pretty good brew yourself, charge premium prices
5) Count the money faster than they can print it.
[place, product, promotion, price]
You could do this for a living. Relax. Don't worry. have a home brew.
Cheers,
Justin
slammer@cmu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:24:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Justin J. Lam" <jl62+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: You could do this for a living
Hey, if you get a chance, check out the front page of the busienss
section in today's Denver Post. It talks about the Rock-Bottom brewery
[a local beerpub] going public on the OTC/NASDAQ market. The owners
[sorry, forget their names] stand to make a pretty good sum if the IPO
goes according to plan.
Synopsis: 1) Find a location that is really trendy and 'hip',
surrounded by 500,000 yuppies who think they are trendy and 'hip'.[
downtown denver]
2) Don't forget to remind the masses of the common causes of
trendy and 'hip'.
3) Host great events like the Great American Beer festival.
4) Brew some pretty good brew yourself, charge premium prices
5) Count the money faster than they can print it.
[place, product, promotion, price]
You could do this for a living. Relax. Don't worry. have a home brew.
Cheers,
Justin
slammer@cmu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:01:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Allen Ford <allen@darwin.sfbr.org>
Subject: Remote bulb thermostats
I continue to see requests for sources for or alternatives to the Hunter
Airstat for controlling refrigerator temperature. Here's what I use and
recommend.
Dayton model 2E740 remote bulb thermometer for cooling. close on rise.
SPST. temperature range of -30 - 90 degrees F. diff. adjustable from
3.5 - 40 degrees F. 16A max. at 120V.
This unit is designed to be wired directly into the compressor electric
supply but I have added cord and plugs so that it is as easy to hook up
as the Airstat.
Grainger sells the above unit for $34.95 wholesale. Add ~$5 for cord and
plugs and you have the complete setup for $40.
For those of you who live in cooler climates and need to heat your
fermenters in the winter, there are models that handle both heating and
cooling control (SPDT). You must, of course, have rigged a heater into
your fridge for this to be of use to you.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Allen L. Ford <allen@darwin.sfbr.org> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-= Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research San Antonio, Texas =-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 12:20:12 -0400
From: ryancr@allspice.jsan.gtefsd.com (Rich Ryan)
Subject: schidling/mills/rabble
I was going to keep quiet but with Jack's recent posting I decided not
to. I don't know about the rest of the digest but I am very tired of
reading about Jack's comments/continual rebuttals, etc. Perhaps he could
start his own mailing list and keep it off the HBD.
While we are speaking of mills, one of my fellow homebrew club members
bought one of Jack's mills and was thoroughly displeased. The mill had
not be made properly and arrived in pieces. The manufacturer initially
blamed the problem on UPS when it was clearly a production problem.
My friend then went out and purchased a GLATT (just say no Jack). He has
been very satisfied with the performance of the GLATT.
Standard Disclaimer: I have no connection with either vendor. Flames to
/dev/null.
Rich Ryan
ryancr@allspice.jsan.gtefsd.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 12:34:20 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Extract for Duvel, Sankey kegging, Fridge in closet
>From *Jeff* Renner
Steve Scampini wants an suggestion for an extract Duvel. I think the palest
all malt extract is Alexander's, also sold in 6 lb. poly bags by Williams
(800-759-6025, std. disclaimer). Williams' has the advantage of being
uncanned, so it is less caramelized but has a shorter shelf life; keep it
refrigerated. Your local shop may also be able to order it uncanned in a 40
lb pail directly from Alexanders, then you can use the pail for a Zapap.
This extract has a bit lower solids than most (that's how they keep it so
light). I've made some excellent pilsners with it. I would think about 10
lb/5 gal. would put you in the ball park. This would also be a good route
for an extract maibock.
Keith Fischer wants to keg his first brew! What confidence. Go for it.
But he's confused by the difference between his keg and Charlie's picture.
Keith, you have a Sankey keg, which has pretty much displaced the old Golden
Gates. I much prefer them. If you are brewing 5 gal, consider using a soda
(Cornelius) canister. They take us less room and are easier to use. But I
do like Sankeys for a bigger brew. The Fall, 1987 Zymurgy had an article on
using them (10:3, pp. 38-39)(then in the next issue they welched and said
"don't do this, because you'll be stealing brewery property). My technique
is slightly different. First, depress the ball in the opening to release
all pressure (and don't get a face full of beer, use a tap with a pressure
release if there is still beer in it). Then remove the flat retaining ring
with a small screwdriver. Using an open pair of pliers as a kind of lever
on the lugs, remove the down tube with slight turn counter clockwise and
lift it and the rubber gasket out. Clean and sanitize the keg. If you use
bleach, don't let it sit more than an hour. You can put a quart of water in
it, foil on the opening, and boil it on the stove or on your burner to
sterilize it. Or, if it fits, put it upside down in your oven at 300 for 10
minutes, then turn off the heat and let it cool in the oven. You can boil
the down tube and the rubber gasket in a pot.
Next, fill the keg, leaving at least a quart of head space. Follow Charlie
for priming and filling instructions. Reinstall the down tube and gasket.
Here's where it gets tricky. You may want to practice on an empty keg
first. You have to compress the gasket enough to get the retaining ring
back in its slot. I start the ring, then put a 1" to 3/4" reducing coupling
(a plumbing part) on the top of the downtube, inside the ring, 1" end down.
Then I take a 3 foot board, put one end under the rim on the far side of the
keg, use the coupling as a fulcrum, and sit on the near end of the board,
facing the center. This compresses the gasket, and I work the ring into its
slot using a small screwdriver. Line up the tapered end of the ring with
one of the cutouts to make it easier to remove next time. You may need to
force it outwards with a large screwdriver.
Some people like to clean in place (CIP) like the big boys do, never opening
the keg. I don't like to fool with hot caustic or other chemicals where I
can't see that they are really rinsed, so this seems easier. Good luck.
Dave Knight - Don't put a fridge in a closet. The heat buildup from the
exhaust side will be worse than your garage.
Jeff
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1446, 06/10/94
*************************************
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