Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1410
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/04/28 01:28:48
HOMEBREW Digest #1410 Thu 28 April 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Great Arizona Beer Festival Review (Joel Birkeland)
Re: The Oracle that Spake (Jay Hersh)
Wilmington, Del. Brewpubs (Haber Justin )
Re: Yeast farming with SNPA yeast (Stephen Hansen)
Brew Pubs in St. Barths? (Robert T. White)
Re: Composting Technology ( And Hops :-) ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
Role of gypsum in extract brewing (BUKOFSKY)
HBD #1405 April 22, 1994-Cran. Wheat Rec. (Timothy Staiano)
Saving Water, Lead-Free Brass ("Palmer.John")
Rotokeg parts (Robert Morgan)
Sam Adams Triple Bock (Mark Stickler)
Malty Aromas, Good and Bad (Joel Birkeland)
Adding bitterness, etc. (Mark Garetz)
CO2 and watery eyes/crystal/mashing crystal/Davis crystal/Irish Moss (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Brewing Tech. vs. Zymurgy REPOST (Chris Pencis)
Industrial Hop Farming: Relax, don't worry...... (huffmand)
Re: Wort Chillers when water shortages are a problem ("Mark B. Alston")
kajun kookers (Bryan L. Gros)
MO laws/AB ads ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
Yeasties @ HiTemp characteristics.. ("McGaughey, Nial")
Jack's water (Cree-ee-py Boy)
dry hopping corny keg (btalk)
Re: Coopers' Ale (Platinum Horde)
Thanks for chiller advice (allison shorten)
Water usage: CF chillers (David Deaven)
Wyeast Scotch / Irish Moss Q (Rich Larsen)
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 08:47:48 MST
From: birkelan@adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: Great Arizona Beer Festival Review
The Great Arizona Beer Festival - A review
I attended the Great Arizona Beer Festival last Saturday at Scottsdale
Baseball Stadium. This is my review. I am not an expert beer judge, but
I know what I like.
The festival looked like a major improvement over last year's Beer Gulch
Days. Moving to a more central location in Scottsdale certainly made it
easier to attend. There were 23 different brewer's listed in the program,
including Arizona brewers Hops!, Coyote Springs, Prescott Brewing Co., and
Flagstaff Brewing Co., and out of state brewers Celis, Anchor, Tabernash,
and Pacific Beach, to name a few. Some of the out of state brewers just
sent kegs to be manned by the volunteers, who lacked knowledge of the
product.
The layout of the festival was unfortunate. All of the beer booths were
crammed into two narrow corridors, which caused great difficulty because
of the crowds. This made it difficult or impossible to get to all of the
booths. I hope this problem does not occur next year.
Attendence was very good. I arrived at 1:30 PM, 30 minutes after gates
opened, to find the corridors jammed with crowds. I would guess that
attendence was high enough to warrant a 2nd annual GAzBF next year. This
is very encouraging.
Now my own highly subjective review of the beers:
Prescott Brewing Pale Ale:
Oh boy, hop aroma! I am always looking for hop aroma, and I am usually
disappointed by the average brewpub. These guys, however, have done it
right, IMHO. Very tasty.
Tabernash Wheat Beer:
OK, another great beer. Spicy, dry, and with an aromatic nose. Although
they are different styles, this beer has many of the features that I like
in Celis White. Seems pretty near flawless, to my uneducated palate.
Tabernash Denargo Lager:
Nothing really wrong with this beer, it just didn't seem to do anything for
me.
Door County Brewery Cherry Rail:
This is (i think) a light lager (?) with a strong cherry flavor and aroma, but,
thankfully, no artificial red color. A good beer from a county famous for
cherries and cold weather.
Rockies Brewing Company Boulder Porter:
1992 GABF gold medal. They deserved it.
Holy Cow Pale Ale:
GABF gold medal winner? No noticeable hop aroma, not much hop character
at all, to my taste. Perhaps I drank it out of sequence, having had the
Liberty Ale earlier in the day.
Pacific Beach Brewhouse Belgian Ale:
I think that's what this was called. Full bodied and red, with pronounced
ginger aroma and flavor. Good Stuff; they were out when I went back for
more.
Bandersnatch Milk Stout:
Ah, so that's what they mean by extract tang: a nasty sour flavor right
there in the middle of the taste. Yuk. These guys are clearly out of their
league here.
Celis Grand Cru:
A fresh keg. Pierre Celis is God.
Anchor Liberty Ale:
A fresh keg. Fritz Maytag is God.
Conclusion:
Looks like we may finally get a beer culture going here in AZ. I hope that
next year's event will have a better layout.
Joel Birkeland
Motorola SPS
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 11:54:07 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@x.org>
Subject: Re: The Oracle that Spake
Hmm, Jack I've used Irish Moss for years, never a problem.
Of course your problem seems to have nothing to do with the actual
effectiveness of the stuff to attract out haze forming matter, but with
your systems set up. This just seems to demonstrate inexperience with
what Irish Moss is and how it works.
You mentioned a mountain of crud, so I wonder how much you used.
Instructions on the IM I purchase say 1/2 tsp 30 minutes prior to the end of
the boil for 5 gallons. Since IM is just dried seaweed (Carageenan if I
understand what I've read correctly) it does absorb moisture and it's
subsequent volume is larger than when you add it.
Your problems stem mostly from the nature of your system. Passing your post
boil wort through siphon hoses, or fine mesh screens, tubes and/or pumps
may not lend itself well to use of Irish Moss. Me I simply pour my wort through
a strainer set into the oversize funnel I place on top of my carbouy. The
IM does collect in the strainer but what colects is hardly a mountain of crud
which makes me suspect you've used too much.
While Irish Moss may not lend itself well to your technique I myself would
not think a blanket denunciation is in order. To others out there wishing to
use this you'd be wise to learn from Jack's mistakes. For Jack well you'll
have to make the decision yourself if there are things you can do to modify
your set up to alleviate the problems you experienced, or if you don't think
the benfits of Irish Moss are worth doing so and you simply wish to use
other clarifiers or none at all. That's one of the great things about brewing,
there are so many right ways and what works in your kitchen for you may not
suit me in mine...
JaH
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 10:37:39 -0400
From: Haber Justin <Justin.Haber@gtegsc3.sprint.com>
Subject: Wilmington, Del. Brewpubs
I will be in the Wilmington/Newark, Delaware area the weekend of April 30.
Any information on brewpubs, local brews or good watering holes would be
greatly appreciated,
TIA
Justin Haber
justin.haber@gtegsc3.sprint.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 09:31:34 -0700
From: Stephen Hansen <hansen@gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yeast farming with SNPA yeast
In HBD 1408 "Michael D. Hansen" <HANSEN.MICHAEL@igate.abbott.com>
(no relation) asks about some SNPA yeast that he's trying to culture.
In summary, he's carefully built up the culture from the dregs of
a couple of SNPA bottles to about 3/4 gallon of starter.
Things seemed to be goin well until ...
> When fermentation was ostensibly finished I swirled up the wort to get
> the yeast back into suspension so I could put it into test tubes for
> use at a later time when a very thick head of bubbles rose to the top.
> I figured it wasn't done fermenting. The next morning another vigorous
> fermentation was going (had to change airlocks twice). When it was done
> fermenting (no bubbles from the airlock in 5 minutes), a 3" head of
> milky foam still remained on top of the wort. This does not look quite
> right to me. It smells fine, albeit yeasty, and I was meticulous in
> sanitation, swabbing and flaming surfaces when transferring yeast or
> wort. Am I on the right track here? Is this milky krausen
> characteristic of SNPA yeast? Should I use it or throw it out? Any and
> all suggestions are appreciated.
The foam on top doesn't worry me too much. I've had similar effects
after a fast ferment. One thing that I have noticed about SNPA yeast
(and I use it quite a bit) is that it's sensitive to cool/cold
temperatures. It seems to want to drop out of suspension if things
get the least bit cold. Could this have happened to your starter?
If so then your shaking just got things started again. The foam on
top of your flask could just be results of that interupted ferment.
It's a good sign that there are no off smells but the best indication
of the starter's health is a taste test. I've had some nasty smelling
starters that tasted fine and made great beer. For IPA's and pale ales
this is one of the best yeast strains around.
Stephen Hansen
(celebrating 25 years of homebrewing with another pint. Skoal!)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Stephen E. Hansen - hansen@sierra.Stanford.EDU | "The church is near,
Electrical Engineering Computer Facility | but the road is icy.
Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 218 | The bar is far away,
Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055 | but I will walk carefully."
Phone: +1-415-723-1058 Fax: +1-415-723-1294 | -- Russian Proverb
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 12:45:39 EDT
From: white@rcc.com (Robert T. White)
Subject: Brew Pubs in St. Barths?
I am Leaving on May 2 for a two week trip to St Barths. I was wondering if
theirs any brew pubs I could check out. I am travelling via St Maartin.
Thanks Bob.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 11:30:34 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Composting Technology ( And Hops :-)
A lasting and easy to make compost bin can be made from cinder blocks.
There's two tricks involved:
1. Make it square and you can alternate the rows for interlocking
effect. Ex: 1 st row: front: three blocks long ways in the middle with
one width of the blocks on each side (ends) for a total of four blocks.
The sides then are four blocks lengths and the back is the same as the front.
Then alternate the side pattern with the front on the next higher level.
(Try it, its easier to do than describe).
2. Turn the blocks in every other row 90 degrees so that the
holes show (provides air flow).
Grain composts real well when mixed with other stuff to
lighten the mix. Use leaves, grass, coffee, anything organic
(vegatable) that does not have grease, meat, or dairy content.
The compost coming off this process is like rocket fuel
for your plants!
Glen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 13:26:42 -0400 (EST)
From: BUKOFSKY <sjb8052@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Role of gypsum in extract brewing
Looking through Papazian, there seems to be quite a bit of emphasis on
adding gypsum, especially in certain styles. I know that water can play a
big part in all-grain brewing, but what about extracts? I have a brewed a
great deal of extract-based recipes without adding gypsum (even though I
have soft water). Am I missing something? What role does gypsum have in
brewing better beer, if any?
Thanks,
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 13:39:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Timothy Staiano <tstaiano@ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Subject: HBD #1405 April 22, 1994-Cran. Wheat Rec.
Howdy again.
Many of you out there (unfortunatly) have other things to do besides brew
beer and reply to all the requests posted here. However, I am
dissapointed to say that I have only received one reply to my post in
#1405 reagarding my Cranberry Wheat recipe that I want to try (it's my
first recipe that's all my own and I'm a nervous wreck). If you could
find the time, _please_ reply to me at tstaiano@ultrix.ramapo.edu as soon
as possible. I would like to brew this weekend so I can have some of
this for summertime drinkin'.
Thanks a bunch
Tim
------------------------------
Date: 26 Apr 1994 08:18:18 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Saving Water, Lead-Free Brass
In response to the question on how to conserve water while using an immersion
wort chiller, my system seems to work pretty well. I use about 5 gallons to
cool my wort. I dump it afterwards, but there is no reason it couldn't be used
for watering. My immersion chiller is connected by plastic hoses to a garden
pond type submersible re-circulating pump. The pump sits inside a rectangular
cooler with ice and water. The warm return water from the chiller enters at the
other end of the cooler away from the pump, where it melts the ice. The cooling
water stays pretty cool this way. Here in Southern California, our tap water
can be pretty warm. The pump is about the size of a six-pack. The water can
probably be considered potable after chilling, as it stays entirely in clean
tubing and the cooler while re-circulating. Takes about 20 minutes to bring it
from boiling to 65-70F (20-25C). Make sure you get a high throughput pump. Many
pumps will say 800 gallons per hour but when you read the small print it says
that the value is at a zero height differential. Trying to get the little
beggers to push water up a narrow hose to stove height takes a lot of steam out
of them. Mine is one of the larger models, rated at 1200 gallons per hour (at
zero height, 1 inch hose ID). It does an adequate job considering 3/8 inch hose
and stove height.
***
I am waiting for a FAX, but I talked with Nibco (valve company) of Elkhart,
Indiana yesterday. They have begun producing a lead free brass line of valves.
These valves are available in the 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch sizes and are known as
the Hydro-Pure brandname. They are stamped on the valve with HP, to identify
them.
In talking with an engineer at Nibco, he said that they were not widely
available yet, due to lack of consumer demand. He said that hopefully they will
be more so in the future, if the market moves that way (away from any lead
containing alloys). I will talk with their Marketing guy on Friday or Monday
and see about who or where it is available from. And I will post Part numbers
when I get the FAX, but wanted to get this in tomorrows HBD.
John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com OR
palmer#d#john.ssd-hb_#l#15&22#r#@ssdgwy.mdc.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 13:34:31 -500 (EDT)
From: Robert Morgan <rmorgan@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Rotokeg parts
I have two Rotokegs that have seen a lot of use in the last several years.
For those who haven't seen one, it's a white plastic sphere with a tap
mounted near the top of the sphere, and a mini-CO2 cartridge dispenser
mounted in the screw top lid. I've been very happy with mine.
The CO2 dispenser assembly is a metal fitting with two small thick rubber
bands, one on either side of the lid. On one of my kegs, these bands are
about ready to disintegrate.
I went back to the store I bought them from, but found that the
manufacturer in England is no longer in business.
Does anyone know where I can find replacements?
Cheers - Rob <rmorgan@cam.org>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 16:22:57 EDT
From: Mark Stickler <mstickle@lvh.com>
Subject: Sam Adams Triple Bock
I was at a "Beers of Spring" dinner Sunday night which included
Catamont Bock, Wild Goose Spring Wheat, Stoudt's Honey MaiBock,
Dock Street's new Illuminator "Double Bock" (not really), Witkap
Pater Abbey Single, St. Armand, Paulaner Salvator, and, as the
"night cap", Sam Adams Triple Bock. Not being a big fan of such
things as "Cranberry Lambic", I was very skeptical. Well, I have to
admit it was a truely unique experience. If I had not been told this
was a beer I would have thought for sure it was a port. I mean like
an expensive vintage port! It did have more of a dry sherry aroma
but the taste was port. It was supposedly 18% ABV achieved through
the use of Pastuer Champagne Yeast. They expect it to be commercially
available in the late summer in 6-8oz bottles at about $100.00 per 24
bottle case! It may not be that good but I would recommend trying
one bottle if you can bring yourself to contributing to Koch & Cos.
success. Like I said, I'm not a fan of "the Best Beer in America (TM)"
marketing tactics, but I got to admit this was an interesting "beer?".
Mark Stickler
Lehigh Valley Hospital
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 12:59:11 MST
From: birkelan@adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: Malty Aromas, Good and Bad
Malty Aromas, Bad:
I have encountered what I percieve to be a flavor defect present in
several microbrewed beers that I have tried, and I wanted to find out
if anyone else had encountered the same. For lack of a better expression,
I have called it the "sack of wet horsefeed" aroma. It is a grainy smell
that I would characterize as unpleasant rather than very offensive.
I first encountered this aroma at the Beer Gulch Days in Pinnacle Peak, AZ
last year, where it was present to some degree in all of the beer from the
local brewpubs, with the exception of Hops! beers. This past winter I
visited Dock Street in Philadelphia, and I could smell this in several of
their beers. Strangely enough, I have never encountered this smell in
bottled beer, nor have I smelled it in any of my homebrew.
Do not confuse this smell with the very pleasant malty aromas associated
with fine beers, e.g. the scent of Sierra Nevada Stout. The smell I am
refering to is entirely different.
This has bothered me for some time, especially since I have not seen it
documented elsewhere. If anyone cares to enlighten me, I would appreciate it.
Malty Aromas, Good:
While I am on the subject, I would like to know how to get that GOOD malty
aroma into my beer. I have brewed my last 10 or so batches all-grain, and
I consider it to be very good beer (MHO), but the malty aroma has eluded me.
I generally use 6-10 lbs 2 row, and 0.5-2 lbs crystal, black pat., and/or
roasted barley as appropriate per batch. I kettle mash and generally infusion
mash, with protein rests when necessary.
Any suggestions on what would help increase the malt aroma?
Thanks a lot,
Joel Birkeland
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 21:58:43 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz@hoptech.com>
Subject: Adding bitterness, etc.
Carlo Fusco asks about the best way to add bitterness
to his under-bittered beer (in a post labeled "hop oils")
First of all, you want alpha acids, not the hop oils. The
hop oils are responsible for the hop aroma and hop character,
but not bitterness.
The easiest way to add bitterness to already brewed beer is
to get some iso-alpha extract. These are alpha acids extracted
from the hops that have been pre-isomerized. Add them at
bottling (or even serving). Some products are calibrated in
IBUs so you can figure out how many IBUs you want to add directly.
Others are not calibrated, but for one batch you can add to taste
to a small quantity of beer (say 6 ozs) and then scale up to the
batch size.
***
Someone else (sorry lost the name) asked about getting a little
more hop aroma in his beer, stating that his current method of
an addition shortly before the end of the boil wasn't cutting it,
wondered if dry hopping with a small amount might do the trick,
but didn't want as much aroma as SNPA (if I remember right).
Sierra uses a generous charge of hops at knockout, with about a
20-30 minute steep (covered). You can try this with less hops,
or just use more hops for your final addition. IMO, most brewers
don't use enough, and when they don't get enough effect they are
reluctant to use more hops. BTW, Sierra does not dry hop SNPA,
but that might work for you if that's the effect you're after.
Now that I think about it, you say you want more hop aroma (not
hop character). I would try the dry hopping first, but this
will also add a lot of hop flavor to your beer. The problem is
that hop aroma is so hard to get and keep - it usually takes
a lot of hops. Oxygen in the beer and headspace are the enemies
of hop aroma, so you you might also pay close attention to your
bottling technique and consider the new O2 absorbing caps. Use
of hop oil might also do the trick for you (adds aroma without
much contribution to hop character - IMO why most find hop oils
"unnatural" in their effect).
***
Jim Busch commented on my comment about 20-30 minute mashes at
commercial breweries.
Oops. I meant 20-30 minutes once they reached conversion temp
(aka saccharification rest). I also was only thinking about the
megas, not the micros.
***
There has been a little discussion about specialty grains in the
mash (or not).
I sat in on the Advanced Homebrewing Course at UC Davis last
Saturday, and in his "opening remarks" Dr. Lewis stated that Guinness
is now brewed basically as a pale ale, and the darkness/roast flavor
etc. is added after the beer is brewed, with the "dark liquor" somehow
extracted from the grains in a separate process from the normal mash.
I can only speculate that this gives them more room in the mash tun
so they can increase output without needing a bigger tun.
I can also report that UCD seems to have lost its "disdain" for
homebrewers. It seems they have finally figured out where their future
bread will be buttered (so to speak).
Mark
------------------------------
Date: 26 Apr 94 18:23:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: CO2 and watery eyes/crystal/mashing crystal/Davis crystal/Irish Moss
Coyote writes:
>before you dumped it? Have you ever SMELLED CO2 (not Co2, or C02)?
>It will make your nose burn and eyes water. Trust me....
You know... CO2 *used* to burn my nose and make my eyes water, but I
don't think it does any more. I'll have to try the old "1/2 cup of
warm 7up" test and see, but I think years of judging have made me
immune or something. Maybe it's just that I've been brewing and
drinking and judging low-carbonation beers.
*****
Then again later:
>Carapils = Dextrine Caramel = Crystal. They are not the same cookie!
Agreed that they are not the same, but are used similarly. Carapils is
a very light crystal/caramel malt. The "Cara" in Carapils/Caravienne/
Caramunich stands for "Caramel." The way that all these crystal malts are
made is that the germinated grain is raised into the saccharification
range (148-158F) and allowed to "saccharify right in the husk" then, the
malt is kilned (dried) at various temps (cool=carapils/dextrine/carastan,
warmer=caravienne/crystal20/caramel20, hot=caramunich/crystal60/caramel60,
veryhot=special B/crystal80,90,100,120,etc.)
In contrast, pilsner/pale/vienna/munich/aromatic malts are made by kilning
the germinated grain at various temperatures without the rest in the
Saccharification range. Roasted grains, victory/biscuit/chocolate/black/
"roasted malt," are first kilned and then toasted at various temperatures.
**************
Darren writes, quoting Bill:
>>produced as the enzymes chop away (remember Charlie's picture of the little
>>lumberjacks?). I can't see how the unfermentable sugars in crystal malt are
>>immune to this enzymatic activity in the mash.
>
>If you are adding the crystal malt for the purpose of adding unfermentables to
>the wort because a high final gravity is desired, I would think that you would
>also be mashing at a high temperature. I believe, although I could be wrong,
>that at high mash temperatures the main thing happening is that long starches
>are being broken up into large sugars (both fermentable and unfermentable), but
>relatively few unfermentable sugars are being broken down further. If this is
>right, then it would seem that the large unfermentable sugars found in crystal
>malts could survive the mash, or at least a large percentage of them anyway.
Exactly. This issue came up about three years ago or so. I researched it
as best I could and certainly found lots on info on the enzymes, but could
not find what the sugar composition of crystal malts were. I subsequently
tracked down an email address for George Fix and asked him about it (and
invited him to join HBD). To summarize our discussion, yes, if you mash
the pale/pils and the crystal malts together at the low end of the
saccharification temps (148F end) the beta-amylase, working together with the
alpha-amylase, will convert much of the unfermentables in the crystal to
fermentables. If you mash the whole lot at the high end of the range (158F
end) the beta-amylase will be denatured quite quickly and only alpha-amylase
will be active. What George said he does is that he uses crystal malts for
their flavor and regulates fermentability with mash temperatures. It would
be equally correct (but different) to not mash the crystal malts, which
indeed would give you more unfermentables, but you have to note whether
you mashed the crystal or not so you can repeat the recipe.
>Also on the topic of whether or not to mash crystal malts, the article called
>"The Influences of Raw Materials on the Production of All-Grain Beers" by Gary
>Bauer in the 1985 All-Grain Special issue of Zymurgy, Gary states that crystal
>malt still has some starch left in it and it should be mashed.
Perhaps poorly made crystal malts have significant starch in them, but modern,
high-quality crystal malts have very little. Also, it's another reason to
not allow the temperature of the steeping crystal malt to rise above 170F
(to minimize the gelatinization/liberation of what unconverted starch is
present).
******
Jim writes:
>Often, the trub that rises to the top after day one is removed to reduce
>particulate matter that can lead to astringency problems. The use of open
>fermenters provides an easy method for the observation and skimming
>requirements of top fermented ales.
A related note (and possibly a plus for the blowoff method) is that some
brewers bubble air through the freshly cast out wort to bring the trub
to the top of the vessel and then remove it from the top. I read this in
J.S.Hough's "The Biotechnology of Malting and Brewing" while looking for
the saturation point of oxygen in wort.
*********
Jeremy writes:
>I had a long correspondance about this topic with a student at Davis. After
>numerous false starts at an explanation he came up with the "fact" that
>the barley used to make crystal malt has more alpha 1-6 linkages, which
>are immune to the amylase action in the mash. This would result in more
>unfermentable material after the two mashes (the germinating one and
>the brewing one).
>
>But if this is true, the question is: why do you need to make it into
>crystal malt? The effect should be the same if you made this barley
>into pale malt and mashed it with the low alpha 1-6 pale malt.
I'm quite certain that this is *not* true, for example, I know that Crisp
Malting in the UK used to use the same, prize-winning Maris Otter barley
for making both pale ale and crystal malts. The answer as to why you need
to make it into crystal malt is for the unique flavor of crystal malt.
I've never read anything firsthand from Dr. Michael Lewis or any others from
UC Davis, but if the second-hand info I've read is what they really said,
then I think it's time they did a reality check.
*******
Sean writes:
5) Irish Moss Gelose or Carrageenan - A texture modifying agent
used in a great variety of processed foods, including canned
poultry, light beer, salad dressings, cottage cheese, canned
vegetables and meat products. Included among the reported
effects are ulcers, colon cancer and colotis.
In the processed foods, the Irish Moss is actually eaten. In beer, it
settles to the bottom of the kettle and is left behind. If any does
actually get into the fermenter, it would certainly not make it to the
bottle -- fear not.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 15:55:21 -0500
From: chp@mail.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: Brewing Tech. vs. Zymurgy REPOST
This is a repost (based upon requests) of responses to the BT vs Zymurgy
question of last week. The question was, if you were to subscribe to one,
which one would you choose? I got 6 responses, summarized (paraphrased below)
1. go to a brew supply store and look through issues and see for yourself
2. 4 responses essentially saying they preferred BT for the technical
aspects and thought that Zymurgy was for a new brewer type ie, less
technical, more recipes and general how to clarify, aspects of hops,
recipes, gadgets etc, some said that best of both worlds is to get both.
3. Response from Al Korz. quoted below:
Original-From: iepubj!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: BT vs Z
You will no doubt get a bunch of email saying that Zymurgy has been
riddled with mistakes over the years, however, these people will also
not be aware of the changes to the editorial staff beginning with the
next issue. I can personally assure you that Zymurgy will be as good
as or better than Brewing Techniques in terms of the accuracy of the
information, starting with the next issue. That said, let me compare
the content of the two magazines. Brewing Techniques has had a history
of leaning their articles towards the technical side. There has been,
and is sure to be, lots of practical information for intermediate,
advanced and professional brewers. Zymurgy, on the other hand, has had
a history of targeting beginners to intermediate brewers, but has
recently, tried to include more advanced information also. Zymurgy
also includes a bit more information "surrounding" the homebrewing
hobby with sections on homebrew clubs, homebrew supply stores, competitions,
BJCP exams, etc.
Personally, I would not give up either of my subscriptions since I get
loads of information from both magazines, but if pressed, I think I would
have to keep the Zymurgy subscription whereas the Brewing Techniques
is more like high-tech icing on the homebrew cake.
Al.
(CHP again)
Thanks to all who responded, especially Algis for the details. If anyone
has anything to add, or more comments about new Zymurgy....please post or
email me at the address above. At this point, I'll probably wait 'till I
see the new Zymurgy to plunk down my hard earned grad student dollars :)
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 09:58:07 PST
From: huffmand@ccmail.orst.edu
Subject: Industrial Hop Farming: Relax, don't worry......
Mornin'
I recently bought some whole hops called "Best of Wormwood".
They smelled great before they went into the brew but I've
yet to taste them in the finished product. These hops are
organically grown - no pesticides, herbicides, or synthetic
fertilizers.
Does anyone know what the regulations are for pesticide use
on hops (ie, what chemicals are allowed? what application
rates? do hops have different regs than other foods?) Or,
for the residual amounts of these chemicals allowed to
remain on hops sold to consumers? What health risk do we as
homebrewers face, isolated or cumulative, by using
non-organically grown hops? What are the environmental
consequences of using particular pesticides and herbicides
in growing hops?
Thanks! All answers/comments are appreciated.
David Huffman ---- "Who'll stop the rain?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 14:59:03 MDT
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb@math.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Wort Chillers when water shortages are a problem
Why not simply feed the water from the outlet on the chiller back into
the tank. This would result in almost no water waste (a little due to
small leaks and evaporation).
My $.02
Mark Alston
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 12:25:05 PDT
From: bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: kajun kookers
I was at Costco the other day (warehouse type store) and they have their
summer/picnic type stuff out. In addition to both rectangular and
cylindrical coolers, they had a propane cooker. The one I saw was the
kind with the legs placing the burner about three feet off the ground.
I have one of these (different brand though) and like the pot being
up higher. According to the instructions, they'll support about 75
pounds: enough for a five gallon batch, but not a ten.
The cooker at costco was either $55 or $60. They generally have
empty 20# propane tanks for $16 also.
- Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 14:19:02 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271@appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Wort Chillers when water shortages are a problem
Brett Shorten, of that world brewing center Toowoomba,
Qld, Australia (in the words of Michael Jackson, 'where?')
Asks about the use of water for cooling the wort in a land
where there's hardly any water to begin with.
Water use should be on everyone's mind, no matter what
their location, or how long the drought. (The tour guide for
the Great Western malting plant in Vancouver, WA
told us that the plant uses 10 *MILLION*
gallons of water a day. Beer making is a water
intensive hobby...)
As a Xmas gag
gift, I took 10 ft. of copper tubing and made a baby
immersion chiller, complete with fittings.
Big fun. Ha, Ha. Later, I was
thinking about how such a thing could actually be made
useful. I made another one, this time without the
hose fittings. Instead, I used regular hose clamps and
some plastic tubing that just fit around the copper. I
stick this pre-cooler into a bucket of ice water,
effectively cooling the water even further before it cools
the wort. I have no data on 'how much I've saved', but
for very little effort, and little cost, I shorten the
time and water used to cool my beer somewhat. As the saying
goes, your milage may vary, but it's worth a shot... I also
use the hot water that initially comes out of the cooler
to clean the equipment that can be cleaned, such as the
mash/lauter tun (I use a 48 qt. cooler), the high temp
PVC pipe that I use to strain with, various spoons, etc...
If I have any (hot or warm) water left, I wash my car...
Or I water the garden. I try not to waste the water or
the heat that I've invested so much effort into.
Have a lager on me...
Rich Webb
***************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 18:44:41 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm@rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: MO laws/AB ads
Yesterday rickh@gcctech.com asked about homebrew laws in
various states. It remains illegal to homebrew in Missouri.
There are two forces that maintain this barrier (three if
count apathy). One is the powerful conservative lobby in
this state (we couldn't buy any ETOH beverages on Sunday
until recently) and the second is the legal stronghold that
the St. Louis megabrewery has on the state legislature! It
took a long legal battle against AB just to allow Brewpubs
to operate in Missouri.
As I was driving home from work yesterday I heard a radio
commercial for Bud Light. A homebrewer was talking with
his wife. It seems he had decided to make beer and put
it into Bud Light bottles (who would ever do that ;). His
big mistake was in trying to pass this handcrafted product
off as an AB product to his friends. Even a priest
(according to his wife) found the "swill" undrinkable.
Is AB becoming so paranoid that no one will find their
products satisfying that they have to stoop to such a low
level as to take swipes at homebrewers? I don't think any
homebrewer in his right mind would try to pass his superior
home brewed beer off as an insipid bud.
JEFF M. MICHALSKI
michalski_jm@rophys.wustl.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 17:25:00 PDT
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh@hq.walldata.com>
Subject: Yeasties @ HiTemp characteristics..
>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 07:35:20 -0700
>From: brian@cyclone.atmo.arizona.edu (Brian Klimowski)
>Subject: Where in Tucson....
>Also, I would appreciate some advice on warm-temperature
>fermenting (75+). I doubt if I can afford to keep my house cool enough
>to ferment my ales at the ideal temperatures this summer. Any advice on
>yeast strains or techniques which may aid my brewing this summer??
I would also be _very_ interested in finding out the effects of higher temps
on the characteristics imparted to beer (I've checked the yeast FAQ
to no avail) i.e. what yeasts can tolerate higer temps with/without adverse
affects
on flavor, or interesting effects (esters, etc...)
I will say that Pike Place Ale yeast seems to handle higher temps (75-80)
quite
well, and apparently the yeast will not do its job at temps below 66 deg..
Red Star seems (IME) to impart a nasty flavor to beer at +75 deg (described
as 'extracty tasting) in all grain beers.. anyone else have similar results?
Nial McGaughey
-up to his ankles in yeasty questions
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 20:01:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cree-ee-py Boy <BIRMINGH@FNALV.FNAL.GOV>
Subject: Jack's water
> In the last HBD Jack restated his claim that sparge water
> does not need to be acidified as the "buffering" action of
> the mash will keep the ph level up (paraphrased).
> My experience is that before I started acidifying my sparge
> water, the runoff at the end of the sparge would be very
> tart (astringent) and unpleasant tasting. I made a bitter
> which had an unpleasant dry, harsh flavor which I attribute
> to over-sparging and tannin extraction from husks.
> So, what gives ? I claim Jack is over-simplifying the situation
> if not outright misleading people.
My understanding is that the Chicago water with which Jack brews
comes from Lake Michigan and is very soft. Therefore he may be able to
avoid tannin extraction without acidifying his sparge water. I'd like
to see him try it out here in Batavia... :-)
- --
Phillip J. Birmingham
birmingham@fnalv.fnal.gov "Tampering in God's Domain since 1965!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 08:48:58 EDT
From: btalk@aol.com
Subject: dry hopping corny keg
I've used hop plugs in bags, weighted and un weighted. Have left both in for
life of keg. Yank 'em out when you get the desired effect. Unweighted seems
to give milder aroma,takes longer.
I DID have clogging when I dry hopped a corny keg w/ pellet hops! Hey, what
did I know? The poppet valve had to be taken apart and cleaned out a couple
times. Bummer. At my brew club summer picnic no less.
Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton ,NY <btalk@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 13:46:22 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz@cs.adelaide.edu.au (Platinum Horde)
Subject: Re: Coopers' Ale
|> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 00:43:56 EDT
|> From: keane@cs.rutgers.edu (John Keane)
|> Subject: Cooper's Ale
|>
...
|> A quick search through the HBD archives reveals three possibilities
|> for brewing with this kit:
|>
|> 1) Follow the directions (i.e. add cane sugar and don't boil).
|> 2) Substitute malt for the cane sugar and supplement with
|> hops. Boil per usual HB techniques.
|> 3) Substitute corn sugar for cane and follow usual HB
|> techniques.
|>
|> Number 1) doesn't sound too promising; number 2) sounded like it
|> would yield a beer rather different from the commercial Cooper's;
|> number 3) sounded plausible. Does anyone have any experience with
|> this kit, and in particular, has anyone been successful in brewing
|> something similar to the commercial product? Any suggestions?
Use a variant of #1. Use dextrose instead of cane sugar and don't boil.
It should come out more or less like the commercial product.
I generally use Coopers extract kits since it is made right here in
Adelaide :)
- --
______ _____________ ______________________ ______
/\####/\ / / / / /\####/\
/ \##/ \ /_______ / / _ ______ / / \##/ \
/____\/____\ / / / / \ \ / / /____\/____\
\####/\####/ / /____\ \_/ / / /_______ \####/\####/
\##/ \##/ / / / / \##/ \##/
\/____\/ /_____________________/ /____________/ \/____\/
zoz@cs.adelaide.edu.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 20:29:44 +1000 (EST)
From: allison shorten <shorten@zeus.usq.edu.au>
Subject: Thanks for chiller advice
Thanks for all who responded to my query for methods of chilling wort when
water conservation is a priority. I certainly had a much larger volume of
replies (22) than for any other question I have asked on this forum.
Obviously either the subject of wort chillers or water conservation
(probably mainly the latter) really get HBDers going! At any rate, it is
great to get such a lot of helpful responses.
In case anyone is interested, I will briefly summarize the main suggestions.
1. Use a water pump or similar and recirculate the water through an ice bath.
2. Go for a counterflow chiller - they are inherently more efficient in
terms of water required.
3. Use about 4 sanitized 2lt PET bottles (labels and black ends removed)
full of ice, which when placed in the wort chill it at about the same rate
as an immersion chiller
4. Use the water again, such as for washing clothes or watering the lawn
(this is what I personally do, as in town here water restrictions are not
as important).
5. Route the used water back to the tank it is drawn from (this is not
practical in my friend's case, as it is a long way from the house, but in
general it seems a valid point).
THanks again to all who responded
Brett Shorten
Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 07:01:41 -0500
From: David Deaven <deaven@ishmael.ameslab.gov>
Subject: Water usage: CF chillers
Rich Scotty wrote:
>> So, what suggestions can you give us as to how to make or utilize a
>> chiller so as to use the least amount of water possible?
>
>It seems to me that to minimize water useage, you are going to have to devellop
>a closed system - in other words, recirculate the same water through the
>chiller and find a way to remove the heat from the recirculating water. I
>would use a fairly high volume water pump that circulates water from a tank,
>through the wort chiller, then through a radiator to remove the heat from the
>water, and then back into the tank.
[...]
This intrigued me because in my counterflow setup I use less than 5
gallons of water to cool a 5-gallon batch, and more than 5 gallons
of water to sanitize and clean up. I've thought about saving water
but the chiller isn't the major use. Do other people's CF chillers
use significantly more than 3-4 gallons of water to cool a batch?
What am I missing? I typically have 45F water at the tap and chill
to 80F wort in about 10-15 minutes.
- ---
David Deaven deaven@ishmael.ameslab.gov
A504 Physics tel 515-294-6878
Ames Laboratory fax 515-294-0689
Ames IA 50011
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 07:27:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <richl@access1.speedway.net>
Subject: Wyeast Scotch / Irish Moss Q
Has anyone else experienced a noted increase of a sleepy hang over effect
from the wyeast scottish. I've used it twice so far (I haven't tried the
second batch yet) but the first batch tastes great, but leaves a kind of
dull listless feeling the next morning. In addition, there is a pretty
bad taste in the mouth as well. I've experienced the bad morning mouth
before, but I attributed it to certain varieties of hops. This time I
used the tried and true Fuggle / Goldings combo and get the "icks" in the
morning. So now I'm attributing it to one of the "higher" alcohols.
Whatcha think? too high a ferment temp? Probably in the mid to upper
60s. I know its just not me, as three other people reported the next day,
that they just couldn't get moving. Mash was 1 hour at 152, SG1.060 FG 1.010
Irish moss has been in the Digest as of late. I asked the question before
and got no response. Flaked IM is reputed to be better than the other
varieties, pellets and powdered. Why?
=> Rich
Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514
The Blind Dog Brewery "HomeBrewPub", Midlothian, IL
(Not a commercial establishment)
"I never drink... Wine." Bela Lugosi as Dracula
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1410, 04/28/94
*************************************
-------
