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HOMEBREW Digest #1413
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/05/02 00:50:59
HOMEBREW Digest #1413 Mon 02 May 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
aeration (Jay Weissler)
Stainless Steel Welding (Terri Terfinko)
Seperate digests - NOT! (Tom Lyons)
head retention (Tom Lyons)
Wyeast 1968 / Propane (npyle)
Ex-keg now kettle: poison interior coating? (Brett Charbeneau)
More Water questions (braddw)
Extracts/IM/long scrolls ("Glenace L. Melton")
Separating HBD ("T.H. DeWitt")
Splitting the Digest (David Draper)
Alcohol content etc. (Phil Miller)
Homebrewing in Vicksburg, MS (Terry Baldridge)
Propane Leaks/ Open Fermenters/ Split my Bottom (COYOTE)
extract and grain digests (Domenick Venezia)
Diacytel reduction (ELTEE)
Australia's best beer? (David Draper)
wort chiller kit (BMFOGARTY)
RE: Microbrew beer/extract vs. grain HBD/microbrewery (ST201811)
SATB (ambroser)
LEAD AND THE EASYMASHER (Jack Schmidling)
Implicit yeast library ? (Bart Thielges)
Grain Cracking (Crushing) (Scott McLagan)
Thread21.exe (Chris Kinney)
Portland, Oregon (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
your homebrew mailing list ("O HALLORAN,DEREK JOSEPH,MR")
Buffer dilution (sbeu)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 13:11:28 -0500
From: jay_weissler@il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: aeration
I've received a number of replies to my aeration posting. Many point
out that unboiled water may be more polluted than the air (O2) used
for oxygenating. They also point out that oxygen is necessary for
yeast reproduction and a good ferment. No arguements here. Brewers
who suffer from contaminated water, low pitching rates, etc. may feel
that they benefit from aeration. I'll still stick with running the
wort down the side of the carboy, but if you want to pump or do the
Texas 2Step with your primary, well, whatever aerates your wort...
Some pumpers pointed out that pumps should be shut down after about 2
hours of use. I don't know if this common knowledge based on some
replies and on my own conversations with local (Chicago area) brew
store owners and other brewers.
Jeff Frane says:
>You might also have sufficient extraneous microorganisms to spoil
>your beer... Extract brewers doing a partial boil should make sure
>that *all* the water they're using is pre-boiled... And the water
>bureau makes that attempt with chlorine (sometimes lots of it), and
>boiling helps drive off the chlorine.
At least in Chicago and the North Shore tap water seems pretty good.
(sufficient chlorine to keep contaminants down, while not high enough
to create real problems of its own (my experience, anyone disagree?)
May be it's the water, but I have to agree with Jack who I read as
saying try it before you start manipulating. Yes, boiling kills
contaminates and dechlorinates. It also de-oxygenates, causes
precipitation of solids, effects pH, etc. which may may have to
compensate for later. I don't know anyone who has ruined a batch
because of tap water here. I know plenty (including me) who have
ruined batches by messing with basically good water and 2 who
attribute ruined batches to aerators.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 14:48:45 EDT
From: terfintt@ttown.apci.com (Terri Terfinko)
Subject: Stainless Steel Welding
I am building a brew kettle from a stainless
steel keg. I have never brazed or welded
stainless and would like some advice. I
will be attaching a brass nipple through
a half inch hole to install the valve
assembly at the bottom of the keg. I
have experimented with soldering brass to
stainless and to my surprise, it stuck.
I was told that silver solder was the
best way to fuse the connection. Will
a butane torch create enough heat to
work with silver solder? Would brazing
with a brass rod work? What would be the
down fall of using regular plumbing solder?
Any advice on welding temperatures, techniques,
materials would be appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 06:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: tlyons@netcom.com (Tom Lyons)
Subject: Seperate digests - NOT!
"Joan Donohue" <DONOHUE@darla.badm.scarolina.edu> writes:
>I would like to make a suggestion that the beer digest be separated
>into two parts:
> 1. notes of interest to extract brewers,
> 2. notes of interest to all grain brewers.
>The homebrew digests are getting quite long and I would prefer to have
>less to scroll through every day.
I'd like to suggest that it not. I can't beleive that there is such
a distinct dividing line between extract and all-grain brewing that
anyone could make such a black-and-white distinction. In which digest
would you post notes on hop utilization, for example? This is
not a flame, just an opinion.
For what it's worth, I brew both ways. I guess that makes me
bi-fermentable.
"Why can't we all just get along?" - Anonymous
Tom Lyons - tlyons@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 06:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: tlyons@netcom.com (Tom Lyons)
Subject: head retention
rnarvaez@lan.mcl.bdm.com writes:
>Well the waiting is all done and I opened my very
>first bottle of homebrew last night and was quite disappointed. The beer
>didn't have any type of head retention. There was good carbonation,
>and a head did form but quickly disappeared.
>My question is what should I do to increase the head retention in my
>brew.
First, congrats on the brew, even tho you were disappointed. Don't
give up. I thought my first brew was pretty bad, too. In retrospect,
it just needed some minor adjustments.
Second, the problem *may* not be in the beer. One of the biggest head
killers is the glassware the beer is poured into. ANY soap film, grease,
water or other foreign substance in your glass will kill your head dead
like Raid. I might be making light (not "lite") of your problem, but
pouring beer into substandard glassware was one of my early faux pas.
Folks often refer to a properly cleaned glass as being "beer clean",
meaning there is nothing inherent in the mug that will shoot head
retention down in flames.
Well cleaned, well rinsed, and well dried glassware will squeak when
rubbed with a (clean) finger. Hard, clear plastic cups are preferable
to unclean glassware, BTW, and are standard issue in many beer tastings.
Keep on brewing!
Tom Lyons - tlyons@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 12:06:09 MDT
From: npyle@n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Wyeast 1968 / Propane
Mark Evans asks about the new Wyeast 1968. I've used it for two batches and
I know Jeff Frane has used it for at least one. Here's my experience with
it:
Batch #1 was a bitter fermented around 63F. The OG was 1.045, and the
FG was below 1.010 (it was 1.010 after a week - and the beer was crystal
clear at this point, didn't check SG after that). I kegged the beer after
two weeks of fermentation and it had a very noticeable diacetyl component for
at least two weeks after that. Since the stuff flocculates so well I decided
that it had dropped out a little early at this temperature and vowed to
ferment it hotter the next time. The diacetyl was below my taste threshold
within a couple more weeks, but by then the beer was almost gone (obviously
the diacetyl didn't harm the drinkability too much!).
Batch #2 was a big brown ale fermented around 67F. The yeast was reused from
the dregs in the keg of bitter. The OG was 1.060 and the SG was 1.014 a week
later at racking. There was no noticeable diacetyl in this batch, though the
toasted malt flavor dominates, so it wouldn't be as obvious. This batch is
still in the secondary, but it has acted very normal in terms of attenuation.
**
Bryan Gros asks about propane leaks, storage, etc. I had a leaky valve in an
old tank I bought at a garage sale. It turns out it is practically cheaper
to replace the entire tank than to fix the valve. I don't know what's the
best way to store the tanks, but if you can do it outside, I'm sure that is
preferred. BTW, I get much more than 4 batches out of a 20# tank of propane.
It is hard to say, since I use the same propane tanks for grill, camper, and
brewing, but it is definitely better than your experience.
Cheers,
Norm = npyle@n33.stortek.com
------------------------------
Date: 29 Apr 94 18:19:12
From: bwchar@mail.wm.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
Subject: Ex-keg now kettle: poison interior coating?
Gang,
I just received my BCI-converted 15.5-gallon stainless steel keg
with the top cut out - very nice. But...
Thinking to myself that this thing has never been used to COOK
things in, and may be coated with something to make sterlization
easier at the plant, made me realize that firing it up right out of
the box may not be particularly prudent.
It's an old AB keg - says so on the bottom. Should I prepare it
somehow before using it to boil wort? I'd really appreciate hearing
from somebody who's had some experience with this sort of thing.
Thanks loads!
Brett Charbeneau
Beer Geek Wannabe in Williamsburg, Virginia
P.S. For those thinking about it, the BCI converted keg is
a pretty cool deal for $50. The lid to my 10-gallon Vollrath fits on
it perfectly and the keg fits my Cajun Cooker like it was made for
it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri Apr 29 16:08:57 1994
From: braddw@rounder.rounder.com
Subject: More Water questions
In Table #7 on page #55 of Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer" he cites the
"Estimate Character" brewing waters from Pilsen, Dortmund, Munich and
Vienna. Does anyone out there know where I can find similar breakdowns
of waters suitable for the brewing of dark ales such as Porters, Brown
Ales, and or Stouts?
Here is a general analysis of my tap water as it came from the local
water authority. All measurements in ppm.
Ca 3.2
Mg 0.8
Na 10.1
SO4 7.9
HCO3 ????
Cl 15.0
PH 8.8* (WOW !!!)
Color 10.0
Turbidity .49
Total Hardness as CaCO3 14.0
Total Dissolved Solids
(Spec. Conductance in Micromhos/cm @25 Deg C) 84.0
* PH adjustment mad with caustic soda. (what does that mean?!?!?)
Questions.
1) What should I do to bring the PH down for the mash?
How far? Around 7?
2) How should I harden my water? With Gypsum? Will This help mw with
question #1?
3) Will pre-boiling the water help me lower the color?
(particles in colloidal suspension?)
4) What should I do with ths water to brew the dark ales that I love so
much.
Private e-mail is welcome.
Overwhelmed by Water,
Bradd Wheeler.
(braddw@rounder.com)
------------------------------
Date: 29 Apr 94 16:01:01 EDT
From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Extracts/IM/long scrolls
HBD 1411 and the couple of previous ones brought up several topics that
have been bugging me.
1. EXTRACTS: Why wait for the producers to publish their extract contents?
One might ask the chemists in the crowd, or AHA members, or anyone else to
send in results such as: specific gravity of the extract (it varies from
1.30 to 1.37 or more), fermentability (sugars/dextrines), hop alpha acid
concentration of hopped extracts, etc. These results could be kept in a
running file.
2. IRISH MOSS: J. Schmidling's note about the trouble with IM when using
his Easy Masher/Sparger prompts the following: Back in the stone age of
homebrewing, about 1936-1956, when I first started this insane hobby, if
finings or a clarifying agent such as gelatine were used at all it was
added just before bottling. What we produced then tasted terrible, but
was usually clear. Since I resumed brewing I have made 4 partial mashes
and one full-grain mash and in every case added rehydrated Irish Moss
during the last 15 minutes of the boil. This has produced sludge (now
called trub) galore, but has not aided clarification in the bottle at
all, so far as I can tell. On the other hand, racking is greatly hampered
because of clogging of the tube etc., and I haven't noticed that it
enhances the hot break, which happens before the IM is added. When and
why did the practice of adding IM near the end of the boil begin? I
should think it should be added with the priming; it's the beer in the
bottles you want to clear.
3. LONG SCROLLS: I, too, find only a small part of the daily HBD if
sufficient interest to save for further reference. However, I intend to do
both extract and all-grain brewing so I would not prefer a split on that
dichotomy. A lot of questions are answered in readily available books or
quotes from them; the Editor ("janitor") might simply have a few stock
replies that would take care of these inquiries. I also think that
personal vendettas could be carried out by private e-mail or more
effectively on the field of honor with over-primed bottle grenades.
[END]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:09:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "T.H. DeWitt" <DEWITT@pebvax.new.epa.gov>
Subject: Separating HBD
I strongly disagree w/ J. Donohue's suggestion to separate the digest into
2 parts. I enjoy reading about both styles of brewing, although I have only
tried the extract method. Many of the discussions are pertinent to both
approaches, and much of the info. on all-grain brewing is relevant to extract
brewing. I suspect you will find many others with a similar opinion. If
you want to reduce your reading, save the daily HBD to file on your PC, use a
word processor to find each occurance of "extract", and constrain
your reading to those articles.
Ted DeWitt
Hatfield Marine Science Center
Oregon State Univ.
Newport, OR
email: dewitt@pebvax.new.epa.gov
"To err is human, to blame someone else is more human" - Unknown
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 08:09:34 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: Splitting the Digest
Whud id iz: In HBD #1411, Joan Donohue suggests splitting the digest into
extract and all-grain sections. I would like to voice my opposition to
this idea, for several reasons. First, from a practical standpoint, it
would probably be more work for Rob Gardner--he does enough already. And
there would inevitably be instances where a poster would be uncertain to
which section his/her contribution belonged (e.g. comments on sanitation,
yeast strains, kegging, fermentation and water chemistry,...), with the
possible result that the poster might decide to post to both. Bandwidth,
bandwidth, bandwidth! Second, from a more idealistic standpoint, my
personal view is that both extractors and allgrainers can learn from the
postings originating in both types of technique (and partial mashers too
of course). I have posted my thoughts on this quite recently. The digest
gets very divisive anyway from time to time, unfortunately, and I would
very much not like to see that furthered in any way. Yes, the digest
takes some time to read every day, but for my money, it is time
exceptionally well spent, despite the flaming draff that crops up so
often. Finally, splitting the digest would probably result in extractors
who have an interest in eventually going allgrain (of which I am one)
getting less "incentive" to do so, because they would not be exposed to
the allgrain "HBD literature".
The only solution I can see to Joan's dilemma is for posters to try to be
as descriptive as they possibly can in their subject lines, so that
readers can simply skip things that they know they will have no interest
in. I would guess that most readers of HBD, after getting used to the
format and becoming familiar with our most-frequent contributors, will be
able to "see coming", for example, a newbie problem that they don't want to
bother reading, or part of a flame fest that they don't want to waste time
with. That's what I do, anyway.
Just my two copper pennies.
- --
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428 Voice: +61-2-805-8347
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 15:28:36 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Alcohol content etc.
I am a relatively new homebrewer with three "kits" under his belt. I have had
troubl getting much alcohol content out of my batches (pale ale, amber maerzen
(quite tasty but no kick), and brown ale). By much I mean less than 2.5% ac-
cording to the hydrometer. I have been using a plastic 6 gal. fermenting
bucket and have not been doing secondary fermenting (what is this secondary
fermenting? It is not on the recipes from James Page). How long should I
ferment the batch to get a good alcohol yield, and how much should I expect
out of the brews I've made? When is the proper time I should pitch the yeast.
Any advice from the pros or the experienced amateur will be given a cheer and
drink of my "Miller" LA.
Also, when doing mail-order, is Minneapolis-to-Columbia, Mo. too far to send
brew kits? In winter it was fine as the kits arrived cold, but will this be the
case this wet summer?
And finally, what are the benefits to using plastic buckets vs. glass carboys
for fermentation?
Thanks,
Phil Miller c616063@mizzou1.missouri.edu
(It sure is wet here!!!!!! Good homebrew weather!!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 14:51:12 CDT
From: Terry Baldridge <XP2729%LSUVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Homebrewing in Vicksburg, MS
I shall soon be leaving my humble position here at LSU and moving to
Vicksburg. I seem to remember seeing at least one person from the
waterways experiment station posting to the Home Brew Digest. I would
appreciate it if any Vicksburg area brewers would get in touch with
me.
Email xp2729@lsuvm.sncc.lsu.edu or terry.baldridge@launchpad.unc.edu
Thanks,
terry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 15:17:08 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Propane Leaks/ Open Fermenters/ Split my Bottom
Just want to thank all the folks who forwarded the posts on modifying
hunter airstats. I ended up with several copies (SO DON'T SEND MORE!).
You're good people. I toast in you general directions. Now I just gotta
go screw with the thing!
***
Bryan asked about Leaky Propane- as to whether it's a problem.
Yes- it potentially can be. There are preventative measures:
Take your attachment points apart- add silicon joint tape.
Test your connections when the gas line is turned on by dripping
a soapy solution. If you have bubbles, you have leaks (works for CO2 2)
Get a cap for your tank. Disconnect the tank from the stove when
not in use. Bleed all pressure out of the stove lines for storage.
Attach cap to tank. problems at the time, so I thought it might just
have been smelly sewage. (stinky stuff- ) Then I realized that the
dispo tank had ice on it. Hence I tracked the leak, and went OUTSIDE for a
smoke!
I had my little coleman camping stove (not the coyote cooker)
to a dispo propane tank, and for no apparent reason it started leaking.
We were having sewer prolems at the time
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:05:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: extract and grain digests
Joan Donohue in HBD #1411 suggests that the HBD be separated into to digests,
one for extract brewing and one for grain brewing.
I for one think this is a VERY, VERY BAD idea.
I personally know a wide spectrum of homebrewers and the things I learn about
all types of brewing get passed along. Some of the most helpful things I've
learned from the HBD were by accident. They weren't mentioned in the
subject lines and/or were "asides" and were only found because I was
perusing everything. There are many many topics that are common to both
types of brewing - two digests would duplicate a lot of effort. And
frankly the most knowlegable particiants are grain brewers so the extract
brewers would probably get the short end of the stick. In no way putting
my self into the knowledgable catagory, I for one would forgo the extract
edition.
To Joan's statement that the HBDs are getting quite long: This is simply
incorrect. The HBD is limited in length (hey, that's why there's a post
queue) and they are ALWAYS (except Sundays) about 45-47KB long. Also
splitting the digest would not yield two digests of half the length.
Like disk usage that always expands to consume all available space
posting would grow and you would end up with two digests at the length
limit.
Treat the HBD like a quiet (unless Jack and Kinney are at it again - which
I really enjoy - thanks guys, I love you too *<SMACK>*) cup of tea or
coffee and enjoy and revel in the 10 or 15 minute respite from the chaos
that is otherwise our lives to peruse the HBD.
Joan, it is a priviledge and a pleasure to have access to such an
incredible wealth of brewing knowledge (you can actually communicate with
luminaries, none of whom I'll mention for fear of leaving some out).
Relax, don't rush through the HBD because you have a million things to do.
Take it as a small personal indulgence.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 06:52:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: ELTEE@delphi.com
Subject: Diacytel reduction
I recently made a German Pilsener using Wyeast Bohemian Lager yeast (if
memory serves). It fermented at about 45F for two weeks before I racked.
At that time it had a slight diacetyl taste. The temp warmed up so it was
about 55F in the secondary for 2 1/2 weeks. When I bottled the diacetyl
taste was about the same. After another 3 weeks I opened one up and it was
undrinkable due to diacetyl. Will this go away at warmer temps? The
weather has been unseasonably warm and my beer is at about 60F right now. I
made an ale last winter that did the same thing but it sat at 45F in the
bottle for a month before it went away. Is warmer or colder temps better
for getting rid of it? TIA
hoppy brewing
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 23:17:46 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: Australia's best beer?
Whud id iz: I was just trolling through some old HBDs, and in #834 there
was a posting by Charlie Papazian about his trip to Australia. Turns out
that the first beer he sampled was at the homebrew shop I now frequent
(the proprietor Mel proudly showed me his autographed copy of NCJOHB, and
guess what the inscription said? "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew!").
Anyway, in his post CP mentioned he'd had one of the best bocks he'd
tasted anywhere in the world, made by Scharer's, at a place called Picton
about 90 min outside Sydney. Well, they have opened a pub right in
downtown Sydney, and I've had the chance to give it a try and boy old CP
wasn't kidding. They make just two beers, the bock and and amber lager,
and pride themselves on brewing using strictly Bavarian materials and
techniques. They also pride themselves on eschewing the perennial pub
fixtures like sports cable TV, fruit machines (more-or-less slot
machines), and beers from the big boys. A very wonderful atmosphere and
some of the best beer I've ever had anywhere. Beer-oriented visitors to
Sydney CANNOT miss it. It's in the Rocks part of town, 100 Cumberland St.
in the shadow of the southern end of the Harbour Bridge. Usual
disclaimer, just a mind-boggled customer.
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428 Voice: +61-2-805-8347
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 10:10:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: BMFOGARTY@delphi.com
Subject: wort chiller kit
Because of the generally agreed upon "need" for a good wort chiller, I
have put together a kit to enable homebrewers to construct one at
home with the simplest of tools (screwdriver and pliers) and very
little time. I put the kit together after experimenting with chillers at
home in my "brewery". When I finally got it right, I decided others
might like to put it together and use it. I priced it as reasonably as I
could.
If you are interested in details on the kit, (where you can get it, how
it works, etc) please send me private email to
bmfogarty@delphi.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 11:37:13 EDT
From: ST201811@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
Subject: RE: Microbrew beer/extract vs. grain HBD/microbrewery
Ronald Narvaez asked about getting microbrew beer through the mail in #1412. T
he magazine Beer, the Magazine vol 2 no 1 (still on newstands I think) has a wh
ole article on this. SOme of the places listed are:
Microbrew Express:$15.95 a month; 2246 Calle del Mundo
(+tax and SH) Santa Clara CA 95054
415-493-2992
Microbrew to You:$21.95 a month; 428 E. Campell Ave..
(inclusive) Campell CA 95008
800-347-8532 or 408-379-0500
International Beer Club:$20 (inc); 800-854-4903
Beer Across America:$14.95/mo +Tax&SH; 740 Industrial Drive
Unit G.
Carry Ill 60013
800-854-BEER or 708-639-2337
Beers 2 You:$12.95 for 2 4 packs
$14.95 for 2 6 packs (both +tax&SH); 135 West Wells
Suite 440
Milwaukee Wis 53203
800-323-BEER or 414-223-4181
Brew to You:$20 instate
$22 out (both inc); Box 1565
Woodstock Ill 60098
800-800-BREW
Gourmet Beer Society: 43984-C Rancho Way
Temecula CA 92590
800-777-0740 or 909-676-2337
I'm not sure how good these are as I've never tried. Check it out..
*****
I'd say keep the HBD as is and don't separate extract from all grain. I learn
a lot from both and I hope others do too.
*****
How cool would it be to start a microbrewery? How hard is it? I'll be graduat
ing from college in less than a year and have no desire to be an academic, whic
h is unfortunately what my "major" has left as only route (mathematical physics
/ logic and philosophy of science). I'm much more interested in starting a micr
obrewery or brewpub. Any info can be sent private email to st201811@brownvm.bro
wn.edu. --Peace and love and happy brewing--Jason Pastorius
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 12:11:50 -0400
From: ambroser@apollo.dml.georgetown.edu
Subject: SATB
SJK%DEV.decnet WROTE:
.....that SA had no plans to remake the stuff because it was costing them
"over $100 a barrel".....
If my calculation is correct that is (very roughly) about $1.00 for a 16oz
bottle. Have you seen SA in big bottles? It's generally $2.99 for 22oz.
No, sorry, I don't believe that cost is a "real" reason why they may stop
making it (even though it's not available yet).
Disclaimer: My "argument" is aimed at the SA tour guide, not specifically
the writer of the HBD article.
------------------------------
From: ulick@ulix.cheg.nd.edu
id m0pxIhg-0006LXC; Sat, 30 Apr 94 12:19 EST
Message-Id: <m0pxIhg-0006LXC@ulix>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 12:19 EST
From: ulick@ulix.cheg.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: water shortage, etc.
I have been a little amused at some of the posts to do with water
lately. While people who live in deserts must conserve water, where
water is abundant one must assess the cost, and it is likely that
water is cheaper than recyling methods. Here I pay $1.60 for 100
cubic feet of water which is about 3 cubic meters. I don't worry about
conserving water (except that they assess the sewage charge to an
extent on water usage and that is a little more). I'd imagine Great
Western have calculated their water cost, and isn't it nice to know
that purchased malt has been well washed?
I'm interested in how people find the average brewpub as a place to
drink. I don't mean the beer. Most reports on brewpubs naturally
concentrate on the beer, but I'm interested in the service and
atmosphere. There is a brewpub in town here, that to my mind leaves
a lot to be desired. I had another run in with the staff the other day
and will never go back. Perhaps it's my grating personality, but I
drink in many places and have not had similar problems elsewhere
(this side of the Atlantic). But I do know many people who say they
were in this brewpub ONCE. I only wnet there lately becasue a
homebrewer friend lives walking distance from the place.
Speaking of brewpubs - a new one, Dusters, has opened recently in
Lawton, MI, about an hour north of South Bend. Lawton is a small
town of <2000 people, but the place was quite busy the Saturday
I was there. It doesn't sell food and is a beautiful old brick
building and is done up very well in an old fashioned sort of
way. Two of the three beers were excellent, the red and wheat,
while the brown was so-so. They had a Jazz band out of South Bend
playing there, whcih was nice, and a touch which is sadly missing
from the nearby brewpub. It is a pity it is too far away for
regular visits, but I highly recommend it to anyone who passes
through southwestern Michigan. There is a place right opposite
it, whose name escapes me now, that is a restaurant with around
180 different beers. It is very similar to another establishment
in Southwestern Michigan - Zeke's in Dowiagac.
__________________________________________________________________________
'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s@&* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.
Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556
| ulick@ulix.cheg.nd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 12:56 CDT
From: arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: LEAD AND THE EASYMASHER
The media hype about lead, brass and drinking water seems to have been just
that. I sent samples of tap water and beer made with an EM to a test lab and
the report shows no measurable difference in the lead levels.
It is useful to note that the beer sent was pretty much a worst case. It was
mashed, boiled and fermented for two weeks in kettles with EASYMASHERS
installed.
The actual numbers in the report were:
Tap water ... .006 PPM
Beer ... <.010 PPM
Due to the complexity of the beer they had to measure it on a higher range
and the resolution was only 10 PPB. As a result, they can only say it is
undetectable or less than ten. Had they measured the water the same way,
they would have gotten the same result.
The EPA "Action Level" for lead in drinking water is 15 PPB.
I think anyone with an EM or any other piece of brewing equipment with small
brass parts can relax...... etc.
However, as I do not want to tangle with the EPA's job program for lawyers,
starting in about a week, EM's will be passivated with an FDA approved nickel
plating.
The bad news is the price will have to go up a bit to cover the additonal
cost.
>From: Jay Hersh <hersh@x.org>
>Hmm, Jack I've used Irish Moss for years, never a problem.
Of course your problem seems to have nothing to do with the actual
effectiveness of the stuff to attract out haze forming matter, but with
your systems set up. This just seems to demonstrate inexperience with
what Irish Moss is and how it works.
Do I hear an echo? I believe I opened and closed my comments with thoughts
to that effect. I simply reported my experience for what it was worth.
>You mentioned a mountain of crud, so I wonder how much you used.
Sounds like you wrote your response after reading the title of my article. I
clearly stated that I used 2 tbs in a 10 gal batch.
>Instructions on the IM I purchase say 1/2 tsp 30 minutes prior to the end of
the boil for 5 gallons.
Right but Oracle II has suggested that this is far too little for best
results so I increased my use substantially. For what it is worth, the
instructions on the stuff I purchased said 1 tbs per 5 gal and that is what I
used.
>Your problems stem mostly from the nature of your system. Passing your post
boil wort through siphon hoses, or fine mesh screens, tubes and/or pumps
may not lend itself well to use of Irish Moss.
Another echo?
> Me I simply pour my wort through a strainer set into the oversize funnel I
place on top of my carbouy.
Pouring 10 gals through a strainer is not my idea of a very elegant way of
doing things. Besides all the hours of settling are lost by mushing it all
up again and all you strain out is the IM and what have you accomplished?
>The IM does collect in the strainer but what colects is hardly a mountain of
crud which makes me suspect you've used too much.
Or perhaps your method only removes the expanded IM and little else making
the whole process an exercise in futility.
>While Irish Moss may not lend itself well to your technique I myself would
not think a blanket denunciation is in order.
Don't recall making any such denunciation. You really should read more than
the title of my article before you make such off the wall comments.
>From: malodah@pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
>The AHA sells 7 full-color pages of ads in every Zymurgy issue, and
six of them are generally bought by purveyors of extracts. That
fact alone has long caused me to doubt that they'd ever seriously
address the extract question, and the fact that they'd even go
this far surprises me greatly. By turning the preparation of the
worts over to a homebrew club, though, they've created the possibility
for enough inconsistency for the makers of the extracts to later
claim that the results aren't valid....
Delighted to hear you say that. This is exactly what Zymurgy has done with
the grain mill evaluation and the reason I declined to participate
voluntarily. I think it is totally inept to turn such evaluations over to
homebrew clubs and then publish the data as if it were official AHA findings.
I protested vociferously but was ignored and you can bet there will be smoke
when the article is published no matter who comes out on top. My guess is
they will water it down to the level that it contains no useful information
or worse yet, misleading information.
From a more pratical point, it seems a bit bizarre to pit advertisers against
each other in a trade journal. As the maker of the Rolls Royce, I certainly
have no objections to doing it as long as it is objective and accurate. The
only way to assure objectivity and accuracy is through qualified,
professional testing services with no interest, personal or financial, in the
outcome.
Just for the record, I have no objection to clubs doing this sort of thing
and publishing the results in their newsletters and computer networks. What
I object to is the organ of the AHA publishing a second hand report that has
the appearance of AHA sanction.
js
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 13:53:57 PDT
From: hpfcla.fc.hp.com!relay.hp.com!daver!nexgen!bart (Bart Thielges)
Subject: Implicit yeast library ?
It just occurred to me that if HBDers are getting good results by
inoculating their batches with yeast cultured from commercial beers like
Sierra Nevada and Belgian ales, why not do the same with our own homebrews ?
Yes, I realize that storing yeast cultures as sludge at the bottom of a 12
ounce beer is not nearly as optimal as using agar slants. However, the
advantage is that no extra work need be done in order to maintain this
yeast library. I think we all know that yeast from a bottle of beer may
potentially contain a mutant strain of the original yeast and that this
is best done with lower etOH beers, so I don't want to spark that discussion.
What I am interested in are the two things :
1) First hand experiences with reculturing yeast from your own beer,
especially if it resulted in a bad batch which could directly
be traced to the yeast.
2) Specific recommendations and guidelines (as in "don't try this with
Wyeast Irish Ale" or "taste the beer from which the culture was
drawn")
Bart bart@nexgen.com <---- Use this address instead of return address
Brewing equipment destroyed since last message : 0
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 17:49:50 PDT
From: Scott McLagan <smclagan@schdist43.bc.ca>
Subject: Grain Cracking (Crushing)
Greetings to All.
Much thanks to all who responded to my question about
grain crushing methods. To refresh your mind, I was asking
how to crush the grain without squirting it all over the
kitchen with the rolling pin.
The vast majority of people suggested a simple but effective
modification to my technique: put the grains in a large
ziploc back before putting the rolling pin in gear.
Another interesting suggestion (from Aaron Shaw) was to
use a food processor with the grating disk attachment.
I haven't tried this yet but I think it would be much better
than my coffee grinder which turns the grains to flour.
However, the "wake up and smell the homebrew award" goes
collectively to Ronald Narvaez, Renee Peloquin, and
Mattie Nic Herriges, who all suggested that I check the
supply store for a customer-use mill. Lordy! Will you
look at that! Right beside the bags of grain, bolted to the
counter, was a hand-operated mill.
Cheers, and thanks to all.
Scott McLagan (smclagan@schdist43.bc.ca)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 00:14:20 -0600 (MDT)
From: Chris Kinney <cak7887@silver.sdsmt.edu>
Subject: Thread21.exe
Hello, I downloaded thread21.* and I am trying to get something out
of it. I was wondering if anybody out there has tried to use this
program, as it seems it would be a great help for me.
I am having problems with it searching the files. The output says
that it tried to search the first file in the directory, but it seems as
though it isn't even going through the list of files in the directory, or
just the next file for that matter. I am pretty sure that I am following
all of the documentation correctly, and don't know what to do from here!
Any help would be appreciated!
Chris
cak7887@silver.sdsmt.edu or just posting would be fine.
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 1994 08:34:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/@mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: Portland, Oregon
Hi all (of Y'all),
I will be travelint to Portland, Oregon for the Environmental Mutagen
Society Meeting from May 7 through about May 13. I would appreciate
info. on brew pubs, micros., brew tours in the area, or a possible meeting
with fellow homebrewers. To save bandwidth, please use e-mail at:
kligerman%am%herlvx@mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
or homebre973@aol.com
Thanks,
Andy Kligerman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 May 94 00:19:04 EDT
From: "O HALLORAN,DEREK JOSEPH,MR" <B2A1@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: your homebrew mailing list
Dear homebrew mailing list types,
I, as an avid homebrewer, stumbled upon your mailing list and would very
much like to become an active member of your group. I have been home-
brewing for a couple of years now and am very interested in learning
all I can about the art and science of homebrewing and also in sharing
any recipes or information I have learned or found out accidentally..
I look forward to joining your group and will anxiously await all/any
information regarding my favourite hobby... thank you
Derek O'Halloran
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 May 94 02:53:12 EDT
From: sbeu@aol.com
Subject: Buffer dilution
As a chemist, I could not resist responding to D. S. Cummings' posting in
HBD#1412 regarding effects of dilution on buffer solution pH. There he
"beg(s) to differ" with the contention of CARLSON@GVSU.EDU that dilution of a
buffer solution will not change the pH. While Cummings is correct is the
definition of pH, he is mistaken in his understanding of the chemistry of a
buffer solution. A buffer system is established by the solution equilibrium
existing between a weak acid or base and it's salt. Such a solution will
resist changes in pH caused by the addition of a small amount of acid or base
by reacting with the added compound in such a way as to maintain the hydrogen
ion concentration. Buffers will likewise resist changes in pH due to
dilution because the pH is principly fixed by the concentration ratio of the
buffer pair. The value of this ratio is unchanged upon dilution as both
components of the system are diluted by the same factor. It should be noted
that an important feature of a buffer system is the buffer capacity. This is
essentially a measure of how much acid or base can be added to a buffer
before the pH changes sustantially. Most simple buffer solutions have a
relatively small capacity and thus one should take care to avoid exceeding
it. As explained above, buffers are much more forgiving of simple dilution
with "pure" water. However, to the extent that the water contains dissolved
salts and other compounds affecting ionic equilibria, this dilution capacity
is reduced. It is wise to experiment with your particular buffer solution to
determine its capacity with respect to the demands of your intended
application.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1413, 05/02/94
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