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HOMEBREW Digest #1402
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/04/19 00:39:48
HOMEBREW Digest #1402 Tue 19 April 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Dave Line's Water Treatment (David Draper)
sanitation (btalk)
Please unsubscribe me (zillionth request) (Bruce Dumes)
ORACLE #2 (Jack Schmidling)
Re: ORACLE and brewing???? (Jim Busch)
Brewing Techniques vs. Zymurgy (Chris Pencis)
re: carapils (TODD CARLSON)
Mash-Out Again! (npyle)
Brass, Zimma, Mashing (Thomas_Fotovich-U2347)
Re: Percolators and Microbooboos (Jeff Frane)
warm weather fermentation question (Allan Rubinoff)
best aeration vollume of air / SS airstone source? (Rick Dante)
Enamel on Steel Kettles... (Bob Bessette)
Re: all-grain vs. extract (John DeCarlo x7116 )
Re: Washing Yeast (John DeCarlo x7116 )
Chest Freezers & Taps (Glenn Raudins)
Red Star Ale yeast questions.. ("McGaughey, Nial")
Re: Partial mashing with specialty grains (Bill Hollingsworth)
Party Pig (LLAPV)
Travel plans (jfunk)
Beginner Batch (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Growing hops in Colorado ("Todd R. Reavis")
Dry Hopping (berkun)
Watney's Cream Stout (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Party Pigs (Cree-ee-py Boy)
How do you dry hops with a food dehydrator? (Curiouser and curiouser...)
HopTech address (Maj Don Staib )
Re: Last Five Batches Infected ("Palmer.John")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 09:00:18 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: Dave Line's Water Treatment
Hi folks, I'm back at it with typing in stuff from Dave Line's books. This
time it's the water-treatment table from The Big Book of Brewing that was
touted in today's HBD as being one of the best by one of our well-know regular
contributors (whose name I forgot to record--sorry I'm such a git!). The
table summarizes Line's entire chapter on water treatment, but if you write
down what happens to the water as a result of these actions, you learn what
chemically has been done. I know many experienced brewers don't need this but
I'm sure there are lots of less experienced types, like me, who can learn a
lot from this (as I did). Line stressed that these are GUIDELINES ONLY, and
that personal preference and experience should dictate what one does. To
quote: "The overriding factor in the treatments listed below must be to ensure
that the acidity of the mash is satisfactory. The object of the exercise is
to create a mash acidity of around a pH of 5.2. It may be necessary with some
waters to increase the acidity by adding more sulphates, or conversely to
decrease acidity by adding more carbonates, than the recommended doses given
in the summary chart." Now that's what I call a disclaimer!!
The way the table works is like this: for each type of beer (horizontal
headings) at a given water type (vertical headings), there are numbers listed
that correspond to the following actions, to be done in the order listed.
Total solids are given in ppm. Treatments are for 5 imperial gallons, so
adjust amounts of salts added for your batch's volume. The goal is to treat
various types of water to be appropriate for various types of beers.
I have to break the table into two parts to fit it into 80 columns. For water
characteristics, "soft" = mixed salts in various proportions; "Med. soft" =
contains small quantity of temporary hardness; "Mod. hard" = mostly temporary
hardness; "Hard" = temporary and permanent hardness; and "V. hard" = mainly
permanent hardness. Permanent hardness refers to the water's content of Ca,
Mg suphates (not removable by boiling) and temporary hardness refers to Ca, Mg
bicarbonates (reduced to carbonates and precipitated by boiling).
Water
charact- Total Barley Pale Light
eristics Solids Wine Ale Lager Ale Bitter
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soft <100 3,5 4,5 1 3,5 3,6
Med. soft 100-200 3,5,11 4,5,11 11 3,5,11 4,6,11
Mod. hard 200-400 3,5,2 2,5,2 2 3,5,2 2
Hard 400-600 2 2 2 3,2 2,6
V. hard >600 2 2 2 2 2,6
Water
charact- Total Brown Sweet Dry
eristics Solids Mild Ale Stout Stout
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soft <100 3,6 8,6,9 8,6,9 7
Med. soft 100-200 3,6 6,9 6,9 8
Mod. hard 200-400 2,6 6,9,11 6,9,11 11
Hard 400-600 2 2,10,6 11,10,6 11
V. hard >600 2,10,6 2,10 11,10 11,10
Numbered Actions are: 1) No treatment required. 2) Boil all the water for 1/2
hr, allow to cool, rack off softer water from precipitate. 3) Add 1 level
teaspoonful gypsum. 4) Add 2 level teaspoonsful gypsum. 5) Add 1/2 level
teaspoonful epsom salts. 6) Add 1/2 level teaspoonful Potassium Chloride. 7)
Add 1 level teaspoonful Calcium carbonate. 8) Add 1/2 level teaspoonful
Calcium carbonate. 9) Add 1/2 level teaspoonful salt (NaCl). 10) Dilute with
distilled water to bring total dissolved solids down. 11) Bring all the water
to a boil and allow to cool before racking.
An example: you are brewing a brown ale with moderately hard water. The
recommended treatment is to first add 1/2 tsp potassium chloride, then 1/2 tsp
salt, then boil and allow to cool before use.
Notes: Gypsum is calcium sulphate; epsom salts is magnesium sulphate. In 5
imperial gallons, 1 level teaspoonful of the salts above equates to the
following amount of salt in solution, ppm: calcium sulphate, 175; magnesium
sulphate, 75; salt (NaCl), 325; potassium chloride, 350; calcium carbonate,
80.
Hope this helps. For you bandwidth monitors out there, this contribution
is about 4.5 K.
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428 Voice: +61-2-805-8347
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 08:02:06 EDT
From: btalk@aol.com
Subject: sanitation
Erik Miller asks what else hecan do to prevent contamination.
Check your water supply, especially if it a private well.
Here in New York state it is suggested private wells be tested annually.
Make sure you don't touch any thing that will contact wort. By the same
token, don't set anything down that will contact cool wort. Keep wort
covered while cooling.
Is your chlorine solution fresh? Airlocks sanitized(inside)?
Try using a yeast starter.
I'm sure you'll get other suggestions.
good luck
Bob Talkiewicz <btalk@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 09:07:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bruce Dumes <bad@sw.stratus.com>
Subject: Please unsubscribe me (zillionth request)
What does a person have to do to get unsubscribed from this list?
I've asked nicely, I've sent multiple mailings to
homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com.
I've written to the whole group, and still I can't get off this list!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 09:11 CDT
From: arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: ORACLE #2
>From: gummitch@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
>Subject: Re: wort pH
>Although Jack will apparently disagree, control over your brewing water
is *enormously* important to an all-grain brewer...
Not at all (disagree, that is) but the message that seems to have gotten lost
in my posting was simply: "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Just because pH
is "high" does not mean you MUST dump a bunch of chemicals in to FIX it. I
just suggested tyring a batch first, if for no other reason than to have a
reference point for future "fixes".
...........
While I have your attention, I hereby declare Jeff Frane ORACLE #2 for his
contribution to the enhancement of the clearity and over all quality of my
last batch.
At his suggestion, I tired Spanish Moss yesterday. My son came up from
Florida with a shopping bag full for my garden and I told him I now had a
better use for it. Taking Jeff's advice that most brew shops recommend using
far too little, I dumped in half the bag. The most amazing thing was that it
smelled just like Saaz hops and I do not recall anyone mentioning this
characteristic. I did a quick Alpha Acid test (with an EASYALPHA tm) and
decided that about 5 lbs would give me the bittering I wanted, so I dumped in
the rest of the shopping bag full.
The beer not only cleared beautifully, but it fermented out over night and
was fully carbonated, with a lovely Saaz aroma. I am drinking my fourth
liter as I write this.
js
P.S. No Ulick, it did not clog up the EASYMASHER.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 10:29:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: ORACLE and brewing????
> From: arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
> Subject: ORACLE SPEAKS
>
> EASYMASHER (tm) be considered in the report. That is, they must be made by
> ORACLE, Inc. aka JACK SCHMIDLING PRODUCTIONS.
>
Boy an I confused :-) Just what does a database software company have to do
with brewing?????
jack, how much did it cost top buy Oracle, inc???
JB
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 09:30:11 -0500
From: chp@mail.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: Brewing Techniques vs. Zymurgy
I recall a big knock down drag out, bitch and moan session about the merits
of these magazines. As I am about to subscribe to one of them (being a
graduate student of limited funds), I would like to get the pros and cons of
them out front. I'm a partial mash brewer (the silent majority :)) and have
been on HBD for about a year so whatever I read, I would like to add to my
knowledge base, not repeat it. So can you folks please send opinions
reviews etc. regarding the publications to the address above -> let's try to
keep this battle off bandwidth time. If enough requests are submitted, I'll
compile and repost. Hopefully the HBD won't wind up getting a copy of my
thesis by accident.....AAARGH!
Thanks - Chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 10:44:56 EST
From: carlsont@GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: re: carapils
Mike Inglis asked about the use of carapils malt. I
recently asked for some advice on which grains to mash and
which grains to steep. Carapils is the one that one that
generated the most confusion. Mike cites Miller as one of
the many references (including the catalog I got in the mail
on Sat) that say to mash carapils. But many of the people
who responded to my questions said that carapils is just a
pale crystal malt and should be steeped like a crystal malt.
I too am looking for a final answer to the questions on
this malt.
todd
carlsont@gvsu.edu
PS - We excuse the lack of subscripts in internetland but
please it's CO2 (not Co2 or C02 as in Saturday's HBD and
some home brew catalogs) -- not a flame - I'm a chemistry
teacher. It's a dirty job but some one's got to do it.
PS2 - Correction on Ron Dwelle's cost breakdown of all grain
brewing: Subtract the cost of 2 oz of hops he gave me.
Thanks, I still owe you.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 9:12:43 MDT
From: npyle@n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Mash-Out Again!
Bob Bessette sez:
>OK, you picnic-cooler mash-spargers must be leaving out a somewhat essential
>step (at least according to Miller) unless I'm missing something. When I
>viewed an all-grain session the mash-out step was stressed to me as being very
>important. Please give me some guidance here. I don't want to go out and buy a
>cooler, rig it up for sparging, and then be unable to perform an essential
>step in the sparging process...
I'm guilty. I don't mash-out. Every time I brew I do penance by drinking an
extra homebrew. This makes me forget some of the things Miller says, and
then it isn't a problem! Isn't that the really great thing about
homebrewing? You can quote Miller until the cows come home when you agree
with him (i.e. water treatment) and then just ignore him when you don't
(mash-out)! Bob, lots and lots of homebrewers don't mash-out. Period. No
problems. There are some that do, for a variety of reasons (easier sparging
due to higher goods temperature, better stability, others?). It is MHO that
mash-out for easier sparging is not important when you have an insulated
lauter tun. The main point is to keep the temperature up so the sugars flow
better and so that the leftover grist doesn't turn into concrete.
Lots of brewery equipment decisions are based on the steps you perform or
don't perform in your brewing process. If you really want to do a mash out,
then the cooler method makes it tough (you have to find a way to use steam or
maybe electricity to add heat to the cooler, or dilute the mash and raise the
temperature with boiling water). The best alternative, if you really want to
do a mash-out, is to mash in a kettle with some sort of lautering manifold
(copper pipe, em, etc.). Then you could build an insulated box to put it in
so you don't have to periodically add heat to maintain mash temperature. For
mash-out, you put it back on the heat to raise the temperature. The cost
might be a little higher with this method, but it gives you more options.
Also, you end up hauling the mash around a little (small disadvantage).
Cheers,
Norm = npyle@n33.stortek.com
------------------------------
Date: 18 Apr 94 09:13:00 -0500
From: Thomas_Fotovich-U2347@email.mot.com
Subject: Brass, Zimma, Mashing
Brass
I just heard this morning (4/17/94) that there is a problem with well
water pumps with brass equipment. Apparently, the brass leaks (?)
high levels of lead. If brass can leak lead into water, what about
wort? I have notices several methods of modifying kettles using brass
fixtures. Is the use of brass for brewing now in question?
Zimma
I saw a tv ad for Zimma over the weekend. The narrator ask what would
you drink if there was no beer? Well, it sure as hell wouldn't be
Zimma. The best description I could give of the taste of Zimma is
lemon flavored Alka-Selter (sp?).
Mashing
In refrence to Bob Bessette and the use of a cooler and Phil's
Lautertun.
FWIW, this is what I use. I have a square Rubbermaid cooler to mash in
and sparge using Phil's Lautertun. No problems. Works like a champ.
Other methods obviously work just as well. I think it all boils down
to cost. I'm sure using a cooler for mashing/sparging can work just
as well as using a cooler and a seprate sparging vessle. (The
sparging vessle doesn't have to be store bought.) It was easier for
me to buy the coolr and the lauter tun thenn to make (or retrofit) a
mash/sparging vessle. (But then again, who the hell am I. Just some
programing geek with more money than time on his hands 8-;)
#include <Normal.disclaimer>
Paddy Fotovich
Motorola UDS
u2347@email.mot.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Percolators and Microbooboos
npyle@n33.ecae.stortek.com
>
> Jeff, what makes the Hop Percolator drastically different from a hop back?
> The hop back is sealed and the (hot) wort flows through it. The hops are
> in contact with hot liquid for about 20 minutes with my hopback. I realize
> this isn't the same, but it is close, no?
>
I think it was Jim Busch that wrote and told me that, generally, hop
backs were sealed. That sort of ignorance (mine) is what comes from not
getting to tour enough old British breweries. I think it would be in
the best interests of everyone on the HBD to arrange for me and my wife
to spent a month or so touring same. Donations can be wired to me, and
I will be happy to answer any questions after the trip.
The only hopbacks I've seen in operation (or photos of) were open.
That said, the distinction seems to be that the Hop Percolator holds the
hops in middling-hot water for a long time (from the end of the mash
cycle, throughout lautering and the boil). The contention seemed to be
that the lower temperatures would allow complete absorption of
aroma/flavor compounds without extracting any alpha acids -- hence,
control of aroma hopping without accidentally boosting the bitterness.
Frankly, I only gave this whole procedure any credit because (a) the
beers I have tasted [a very limited sample] from Peter Austin-designed
breweries were significantly better [to my taste] than those from a
*lot* of other micros(*), and (b) I like their whole approach --
re-built Grundies, open fermenters, much less flash.
(*) During the course of the microbrewers conference, I tasted a bunch
of beer. Our booth was almost within grabbing distance of the bottled
beers being put out for lunch every day, and there were eight (8!) taps
flowing concurrently throughout the afternoon. When one keg ran dry,
they would put on a different beer entirely. Most of the beer -- damn
near *all* the beer -- I tasted was, er, um, less than exciting.
Boring. Clueless.
A few noted exceptions: Stoudt Pils and their bock, Legacy Lager,
Boulevard(?) Pale Ale [not great, but...], and the seminar IPA brewed by
Full Sail. Fish Pale Ale (I think) from Olympia, Teri Fahrendorf's IPA
from Steelhead in Eugene, and the new Oregon Trail Ale (a Kolsch-kind
of?): all good beers.
Plus a really fresh bottle of Anchor and one of Celis Grand Cru.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 12:32:40 EDT
From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff@BBN.COM>
Subject: warm weather fermentation question
I've only been brewing since the fall, but I'm already hooked. I'm
hoping I won't have to give up brewing for 3 months when the weather
turns hot.
I generally use EDME dry yeast, and I have been very happy with the
results. But I suspect this yeast will produce off flavors if used at
high temperatures (over 75 degrees F).
Can anyone recommend a dry yeast that works well at high temperatures,
without producing strange flavors? Cooper's claims their yeast can be
used at up to 32 degrees C (~90 F), but I'm a bit skeptical about that.
Thanks,
Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff@bbn.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 09:30:35 PDT
From: rdante@icogsci1.UCSD.EDU (Rick Dante)
Subject: best aeration vollume of air / SS airstone source?
I don't know if it was the aerator I fashioned not swirling enough air into
my wort flow, a mistake is the production of my three step yeast culture
(5ml to 75 ml to 750 ml), or bad yeast karma but my last batch, my second
all grain batch, an oatmeal stout got off to a slow start. I pitched Saturday
morning and it is just starting to develop it's yeast head Monday morning
at 8:00AM.
I've pondered using an old fishpump to pump air thru a cotton filter into my
wort but I have a better idea. I dive, or at least I used to but I still
have my tank and I can still get free airfills. I can hook up a hose to
one of the LP ports and run filtered air through another filter (nasties can
exist harmoniously inside a scuba 1st stage) to an airstone.
I can calculate the volume of air just by monitoring the pressure drop (It's
really quite accurate since the air is in gas phase).
Now I ask: What is a good volume of air in ft^3 to aerate 6 gallons of wort?
Could I just pump that volume in there as quick as reasonably possible or
would I want to introduce the air very slowly over a period of minute or
hours?
Finally, I was thinking of using an aquarium airstone which I could boil. But
maybe I should go with SS. Can somebody repost a cheap source of SS airstones?
To the fellow posting in 1401 about how to do a mashout in a Gott
mash/lauter tun (I hope he reads this article):
I made a slotted copper manifold out of 10 feet of 3/8" OD soft copper tubing.
The slots range from 1cm to 1/2" apart. Anyways, I left about a foot and a
half of the tubing sticking straight up (enough to reach the top of
my 10 gallon Gott). The rest is wound in a circle. To do a mashout you can
copy me which was to siphon a guestimated quantitity of hot sparge water
through this underlet tube. You can also do a pseudo decoction which is what
I did my first batch (grabbed about a gallon of mash at a time, boiled and
reintroduced. Three of these took about 30 minutees). You can do whatever
you come up with, which will amount to reintroducing a certain amount of
hotter liquid to your colder mash to raise to 170 degrees. Some people don't
even bother with a mashout so if you don't feel the need, don't bother
(and if you're unsatisfied with something and you suspect the lack of mashout
then try it and see if it helps).
Rick Dante
rdante@ucsd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 12:49:10 EDT
From: Bob Bessette <bessette@uicc.com>
Subject: Enamel on Steel Kettles...
I have been instructed by a lot of you to purchase an enamel-on-steel kettle
as most frugal way to do an all-grain boil. I recently saw a 33-qt
enamel-on-steel canning kettle at a local True Value Hardware. My only concern
is the strength of this thing. Should I worry about lifting one of these
things with 6 gallons of hot wort in it? Has anyone out there heard of any
disasters with one of these things? Also, if you do have one, what brand name
did you buy? This was only $26.99 so if I don't hear any disaster stories I'm
going to buy it. This is a big step for me. I'm that much closer to all-grain
and I don't want to drop my first batch...
Bob Bessette (future all-grainer...)
bessette@uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 14:24:06 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo@homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: all-grain vs. extract
John Pratte writes that he would have to spend between $180 and $270 to
convert to all-grain. And that he would have to spend more on each
batch for fuel. I don't know where the numbers come from, but it sounds
ridiculous to me.
*If* your only equipment right now is a 2 gallon pot and a fermenter,
and you wanted to jump to all-grain and buy a wort chiller and a large
pot and a picnic cooler and a propane stove to boil outside, this would
make sense. But you would be doing a bunch of things at once
(all-grain, full-volume boils, chilling wort, brewing outside).
There is no reason in the world why you couldn't try all-grain without
anything except a new mashtun, if you don't already have a picnic cooler
or large pot. Some extract brewers won't need to buy *any* new
equipment to go all-grain.
I spent around $30 myself, buying a 8 gallon ceramic-on-steel pot and 6
or so feet of copper coil. I could have gotten away with just the
copper coil and saved $25 on the pot, but I would have had to use
smaller pots and scramble around what with heating sparge water and
collecting the wort from the lauter tun.
In conclusion, you will probably boil the wort longer, and if you aren't
doing full-volume boils now, you will probably use more fuel to boil 6
gallons down to 5 than 2 gallons down to 1.5 or whatever. The rest is
optional and up to you.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 14:38:34 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo@homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Washing Yeast
Neil McGaughey wonders about washing yeast.
Check out the Yeast FAQ available from sierra.stanford.edu. The
instructions are there, from HBD issues 876 and 1157. Jeff Frane wrote
the original article you see me and others quoting from time to time.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 12:10:28 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271@appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Mash-outs
I believe the idea behind "mashing-out" is to heat up the
sugars in order to make them more soluable in water. During
the mash, it is rather important to maintain a thick slurry
of grain in water. After the starch has been converted, it
really doesn't matter how thick the mash is. Therefore
"mashing-out" can be accomplished by adding large quantities
of hot (sparge) water to the cooler/mash/lauter tun. The
liquid is then drained off while new, clear, hot water is
added on top. The idea is that the first runnings will
have the majority of the dissolved sugars, while subsequent
runnings will leech out the remaining sugars. Something
that confused me for a long time. The admonisition against
high temperatures during the sparge seems to be a reaction
of the pH and temperature environmental standards. As the
sugar content is reduced, the pH of the wort increases.
This, coupled with the increasing temperatures, begins
to leech out tannins from the grain husks. Thus is seems
that we are allowed to raise the temperature to anything
short of incandescence, as long as the pH remains low.
Send flames nowhere. Please respond only if the
discussion leads to a furtherment of brewing knowledge.
Rich Webb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 11:46:05 -0700
From: raudins@elan2.coryphaeus.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: Chest Freezers & Taps
I am currently deciding where to place the taps on my chest freezer and am
interested in any experience people have had with their taps on a chest
freezer. I am trying to decide whether to put a tower on the lid or put
the taps on the side of the freezer. Not having checked to see what is in
the walls of the chest freezer (yet), does anyone have any warnings?
Glenn Raudins
raudins@Elan2.coryphaeus.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 13:00:00 PDT
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh@hq.walldata.com>
Subject: Red Star Ale yeast questions..
Alright, is there an upper temperature ceiling for yeast? Ive brewed
different 2 batches with the stuff, and the ferment temps have been in the
75-80 deg range, and both beers have had ~1lb of honey in them (less than
10% of total ingredients, and both less than 20% adjuncts) the
characteristic is a tang/iron flavor that has a faint wine finish to it, one
beer was an all grain brown ale (red star ale yeast), the other a bock(lager
yeast {green circle label??}) that was all extract, Is this representative
of a steam beer flavor profile? I've made several beers, and the last batch
was a pike place ale clone, and turned out dead on, and didnt have the
'wine' flavor. Also none of the adjunct grain flavors are evident in the all
grain. Is anchor steam a representative style of steam beer, or is it too
highly hopped? "Hep me Hep me I don't understand, theres a tiny device
inside my beer thats making me a self destuctin' man" (Apologies to Ray
Davies)
TIA
Nial McGaughey
not necessarily the opinions of: Wall Data
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:35:39 EDT
From: Bill Hollingsworth <U9508WH@VM1.HQADMIN.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re: Partial mashing with specialty grains
Regarding my question last week (HBD #1399) about partial mashing with
specialty grains, I want to thank all those who responded to my post.
I received three responses which supported processing specialty grains
separately, while a fourth response described throwing the specialty
grains in for the entire mash with good results. Of those in favor of
processing separately, one suggested steeping the specialty grains in a
separate pot (even using the sparge water from the mash, if you like),
while two others recommended just adding them to the same pot at mash
out. One particularly intriguing suggestion for the beginner was to try
mashing in a casserole dish in the oven and then sparging through a
strainer (the oven can be used to maintain a constant 150F temperature
for a single-step infusion for 30 minutes, and then by turning the oven
up to 200F you can mash out at 160-170F). This certainly sounds easy
enough to me, and at least I won't have to buy a mash tun/lauter tun, 8
gallon brew pot, and wort chiller just to give mashing a try!
FWIW, I was visiting my local homebrew supply shop (Rockville, MD) this
past weekend and happened into a conversation with a microbiologist who
works there one day a month. She mentioned that she also worked
part-time for one of the microbreweries in the area, and noticed that
they don't mash specialty grains separately. In fact, she said she's
been to several of our area's microbreweries (e.g., Old Dominion in
Ashburn, VA; Wild Goose in Cambridge, MD; Frederick in Frederick, MD;
Arrowhead in Chambersburg, PA; etc.), and they just throw in all the
grains together at the beginning of the mash and let them do their
thing. She said, when you think about it, specialties such as crystal
have already been mashed in the grain and the only thing left is
unfermentables; therefore, being thrown in with the mash really can't do
much more to them. I did ask her about the high ratios of specialty
grains in a partial mash, and she said that she does partial mashes on
occasion and has never really had a problem with throwing in a couple of
pounds of specialties with 2-3 lbs. of regular malt.
BTW, I learned a little trivia at my other local homebrew supply shop
(Frederick, MD) also this past weekend, and that is microbreweries often
refer to crystal malt as caramel, since that's what's printed on the
bags which come from the Breiss grainery. The term crystal is more apt
to be used by homebrewers for what is actually labeled caramel by the
malters.
Cheers,
Bill H.
My various E-Mail Addresses --->
OfficeVision: DOEVM(U9508WH) BITNET: U9508WH@DOEVM.BITNET
Internet: u9508wh@vm1.hqadmin.doe.gov
X.400: ADMD=ATTMAIL/PRMD=USDOE/O=HQADMIN/OU1=DOEVM/OU2=U9508WH
------------------------------
Date: Monday, 18 April 94 15:40:27 CST
From: LLAPV@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: Party Pig
Howdy,
In HBD 1401, Dave Burns wants to know if a Party Pig is worth it. My wife gave
me one for Christmas, & it's great! Since it holds 2 1/4 gallons, my bottling
is cut in half. It cleans easy, is easy to put together (after you get the
hang of it), keeps the beer fresh, & is very handy. It does fit in the fridge,
but you have to do some fancy squeezing to get it in. My wife was impressed,
too, because I cleaned out the fridge to get the thing in. It's still nice to
have a few bottles of the same beer around to take to a friend's or to compare
the bottled versions to the "kegged", so I don't mind having to do a few
bottles. Just yesterday I bottled a batch with some fellow homebrewers, & they
were very impressed with the ease of it all.
A happy customer,
Alan of Austin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:44:58 EST
From: jfunk@mail.casi.sti.nasa.gov
Subject: Travel plans
Howdy, Boys!,
I'll be travelling to Novoalelseyevka,Kahzakistan, this month and I was
wondering if anyone knows of any GOOD brewpubs over there. Thanks in advance!
Jim on Mars
------------------------------
Date: 18 Apr 94 20:45:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Beginner Batch
Rich writes:
>In HBD 1397 Al Writes :
>>....I think that
>>a basic 6 pounds of hopped amber extract, boiled 1 hour in a gallon of
>>water, chilled in a sink full of ice, aeratied while adding to 4.25
>>gallons of pre-boiled cooled water,....
>I don't feel it is wise to boil such a high gravity solution (I calculate
>it to be over 1.200) You won't get a proper hot break and caramelization
>of the wort is very likely to occur. Probably better would be to boil
>at least 2.5 gallons water, dissolve the extract, boil one hour, add one
>ounce of fresh hops in the last 10 minutes to get some hop aroma, chill
>as above, aerate well, and top off to 5 gallons in the fermenter with
>pre-boiled chilled water.
You most certainly *will* get a good hot break and indeed caramelization
will occur, but with a beer that does not have crystal malt in the recipe,
the caramel flavor would generally be welcome in an amber ale such as
this. I've done a number of test beers with very similar recipes as the
one I posted and have (with care) had minimal scorching. I would recommend
against boiling 2.75 gallons of wort in a pot any smaller than 4 gallons.
My intent regarding the small boil were so that the wort would comfortably
fit in a pot of about 2.5- to 3-gallons, which is much more easily accessable
to beginners than larger kettles. The lack of a need for an oversized kettle
is important when trying to convince non-brewers to give homebrewing a try.
I'm just trying to minimize the expense of beginning brewing, that's all.
Regarding the addition of hops for aroma, that's a fine idea, but my intent
was to really make this simple. Also, if any hops *were* to be added at this
point in the boil, it's important to mention they should be "aroma" hops.
Try using Clusters for aroma ;^)... or better yet, ask John "HopDuvel" Isenhour
for some of his "all Pride of Ringwood" experimental beer. Wow!
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 14:43 EST
From: "Todd R. Reavis" <0005631241@mcimail.com>
Subject: Growing hops in Colorado
I've been reading all the great info lately about growing hops - 'tis the
season. I have a few more questions to throw into the 'ol 'hopper'. Does
anyone have experience growing hops in Colorado - particularly higher altitudes
of 8000' and up?
We had a small vegetable garden last year in Manitou Springs and yielded
nothing from it because we had a freeze in August - unbelievable! The tomatoes
were marble sized green wrinkled balls, just right for nothin'. The growing
season runs from mid-May to mid August up here - just not enough time.
Now we live 2000' higher (about 8200') along the foothills of Pikes Peak and
are trying it again, but this time we are building a sunken solar growing frame
(as per the Rodale Press - no affiliation) on the South side of the house in
hopes of better yields - any yield would be cause for a homebrew celebration.
This thing is supposed to allow year-round gardening so I'm hoping it will
solve the short growing season problem.
So, the questions are:
1) Do you think hops will grow well on their own - not using the solar frame -
at the 8200' altitude? We'll have good growing weather from mid May through
August, but that's it. Average temp about 68-70, low humidity and plenty of
BIG sun days - gotta love the sun up here!
2) Or, do you think the hops will have to be grown inside the frame with the
other veggies? The other stuff we're growing needs about 78-80 degrees and
higher humidity for at least 4 months - hence the need for the frame.
3) If the hops must go in the frame are there any suggestions for allowing the
bines to grow via a trellis in there? Sounds a little improbable - it's about
5' tall
4) Also, will the hops' roots overrun the other veggies if all are inside the
frame (about 5'x7')?
5) Or, finally, should I just chuck the whole stinking idea?
Any info is very welcome. Private E-mail is fine.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 14:50:17 PDT
From: berkun@guiduk.enet.dec.com
Subject: Dry Hopping
Irish Moss may be God - but I just did my first dry hopping and it
was a Religous Experience.
I dry hopped the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone recipie with Cascade
(in a hop bag, unweighted, in secondary) and the beer is amazing! What
a hop nose and taste! I can't wait to do this again. I may not bother
with the bag next time, as getting it in and out of the carboy neck
was exasperating.
Ken B.
------------------------------
Date: 18 Apr 94 22:07:00 GMT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Watney's Cream Stout
Aaron writes:
> And yet in another previous article Stuart Siegler asked
>about a recipe for Watneys Cream Stout, and once again I will
>rely on Dave Line for this one.
> WATNEYS CREAM STOUT
> 3 lb. Malt extract syrup
> 1/2 lb. Crushed crystal malt
> 1/2 lb. Crushed black malt
> 1 lb. Brown sugar
> 3 tsp. Caramel
> 1 1/2 oz. Fuggles hops
> 3 gallons Water for "sweet stout brewing"
> 1 oz. Home brew beer yeast
>
> Boil the malt, grain, and hops in water for 45 minutes
>Strain off the wort from the hops and grains and sparge.
>Dissolve the sugar and caramel in boiling water. Cool wort.
> 4-5 days in the primary. 7-10 in the secondary. Rack the
>beer off the sediment and prime with corn sugar(1/2 tsp./pint).
>Allow 7 days maturation.
Then shortly thereafter, David writes:
>Watneys Cream Label - 5 imperial gallons
>3 lb Malt extract syrup
>0.5 lb crushed crystal malt (no Lovibond given)
>0.5 lb crushed black patent malt
>1 lb soft brown sugar (presumably dark brown)
>3 teasp. caramel
>1.5 oz Fuggles (no aa% given)
>10 saccharin tablets
>yeast
>
>Line's method is to boil up the extract, grains, and all the hops in 3 gal
>water for 45 min., then put this in the fermenter along with the sugar and
>caramel that had een dissolved in a separate vessel of water (he says only
>"hot" water). Top up to 5 imp gallons, then pitch yeast and add the
>saccharin. Ferment 4-5 days then rack to secondary for a week, then
>bottle. Minimum 7 days bottle maturation.
Well, Aaron's post doesn't mention the batch size, but it seems as if
the two recipes are close enough so that we can assume that both posters
were trying to post the same recipe. I have never tried this recipe, but
have brewed enough stouts and have tasted enough Watneys to be able to
say that I'm quite confident that the resulting beer will taste nothing
like Watneys Cream Stout. Nevermind the bad advice to boil the grains
for 45 minutes, the original gravity in 5 imperial gallons will be no
higher than 1.030 which is much, much too low for anything resembling
Watneys.
I have tried and tested this recipe and it has won quite a few awards.
I've never compared it side-by-side with Watneys, but think it will put
you in the ballpark:
Sweet Tooth's Sheaf & Vine Stout -- Al Korzonas
3.3 lbs John Bull Unhopped Dark Extract
3.0 lbs Laaglander Light DME
0.5 lbs Belgian Special-B
0.5 lbs Belgian Cara-Munich
0.5 lbs Belgian Roasted Barley
0.5 lbs Belgian Roasted Malt
.25 tsp Burton Water Salts
2.25 oz Cascade 4.0% @ 60 minutes
1.15 oz BC Goldings 4.0% @ 15 minutes
Wyeast #1056 American Ale Yeast
Fermented at 68F.
0.5 lb lactose at bottling
1/2 cup corn sugar for priming
OG 1.057
FG 1.019
Don't boil the grains, just crush them and steep them in 2 gallons of
170F water, then remove and add the rest of the 5.5 gallon boil water.
If you don't do a full wort boil, you will have to increase the hop
rates (say, 25% more for a 2.75 gallon boil) to compensate for the
lower efficiency. Better be very sure you keep good sanitation since
lactobacillus can eat the lactose and will certainly make for gushers
(or worse) if you get an infection.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 17:31:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cree-ee-py Boy <BIRMINGH@FNALV.FNAL.GOV>
Subject: Party Pigs
Dave Burns writes:
>Party Pigs. I thought they looked like a great invention after reading
>a short blurb in a mag. Then I got a catalog and checked it out further.
>It seems you have to buy a disposable "air bag" type thing that has to
>be replaced each time you fill it. They cost $3.50. So for a 5 gallon
>batch it would cost $7 to "pig it" If someone is using one of these and
>I am mistaken in how they work let me know. Like I said they *looked*
>like a good thing at first.
I recently sold my Party Pig for $15, less than half of what I
paid for it. Why, you may ask?
I was packaging a wonderful pale ale; golden-colored, nice and
bitter, and dry-hopped with whole cascades until you could smell it as
soon as you opened a bottle. I decided to put half the batch in my
Party Pig to save bottling time. Once I had the Pig filled, I began the
work of bottling, only to be interrupted by a "POP! Whoooooshhhhhhh"
noise. The rubber gasket on the Pig had slipped out. I had tightened
the aluminum ring that holds the tap on, but I guess this time it
wasn't enough.
Up to that point I had been bothered by inconsistent behavior of
pouches as Quoin was constantly changing their design, and the rather
high $3.50 cost. Several times the last pint or two had a salty taste
as if the pouch had leaked. Plus I was always uneasy about pumping air
into the filled pig. These facts didn't bother me *too* much, but once
I actually *lost beer,* I sold it and got a Cornelius keg system.
Perhaps Quoin has worked out the kinks in their pouch design, and
maybe soon they will lower the price a bit. If I had it to do over
again, though, I would have saved the fifty or sixty bucks I sank into
my Pig towards the keg system.
- --
Phillip J. Birmingham
birmingham@fnalv.fnal.gov "Tampering in God's Domain since 1965!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 15:38:49 -0700
From: ruderman@esca.com (Curiouser and curiouser...)
Subject: How do you dry hops with a food dehydrator?
Hello,
I was successfully able to grow Cascade hops in my back yard last season, so
this season I went overboard and planted about five other varieties. I own a
food dehydrator and was wondering if anyone has any details on how to use the
dehydrator in the drying of hops. I have seen several references where it is
pointed out that using an old "beehive" style hairdryer is the prefered method,
but I haven't had too much luck in locating any. So a food dehydrator is my
alternative.
Thanks,
Robert
Reply to: ruderman@esca.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 17:55:57 -0600
From: staib@oodis01.hill.af.mil (Maj Don Staib )
Subject: HopTech address
I just ordered 4-4oz bottles of Raspberry Flavoring from Mark Garetz
at HopTech, so I think yes, they still are around.
I don't have the actual address in front of me now, but I think it
should be
mgaretz@hoptech.com Let me know how this works!
Braumeister Staib in Layton, Utah
------------------------------
Date: 18 Apr 1994 09:59:14 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Last Five Batches Infected
Eric Miller wrote that his last five batches were all infected and that all of
his sanitization efforts were for nought. Well, we need more info.
1. What form did these infections take? (look, taste, smell, gusher?)
2. What kind of beer are you brewing and how?
3. At what point in the process did the infection manifest?
4. Do you have any pets that may be spitting into it when you aren't looking?
Answers to these questions will probably trigger a response from someone who
has had a similar problem and knows what the solution is.
John Palmer
MDA-SSD M&P
palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com OR
palmer#d#john.ssd-hb_#l#15&22#r#@ssdgwy.mdc.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1402, 04/19/94
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