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HOMEBREW Digest #1335
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 94/01/27 00:54:21
HOMEBREW Digest #1335 Thu 27 January 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
WYEAST - 1084 - Irish Ale ("Robert H. Reed")
thermometers (BIO)" <tillman@chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Re: Irish ale yeast (florianb)
Pete Soper, remember him? (florianb)
Liquid vs Solid Media/ Bucket Hole/ SLC Suppl. (COYOTE)
Hazelnut extract source (Michael Froehlich)
Aromatic Malt/Keg Secondary (Phil Brushaber)
FAQ (npyle)
overcarbonation (weigh, don't measure volume!) (Dick Dunn)
A nit on potential extract (Marc de Jonge)
Re: Ft. Walton brewers (Jim Graham)
various (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
Re: How long to prime??? (Josh Grosse)
RE: shipping brew, pitching temp (Jim Dipalma)
Re: FLAT beer (aew)
Sanitizing Bottles (WKODAMA)
Cardboard sixpack carriers, ceramic fermenters (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn@vnet.IBM.COM>
Aeriation/Dry hops/REpitching (Jim Busch)
Steam Correction (korz)
Sierra Nevada or St.Ambroise PA (GANDE)
SS Kettle problems (ELQ1)
Re: Question on flavor (Celis White) ("Ben Piela")
Secondaries/Oatmeal Stout/Waterloo Brewpub (Chris Pencis)
Re: Oktoberfest trip and Munich Brewery Tours (Don Biszek)
Should I Whole Grain? (BFRALEY)
Utilization/Flat Steam/Bitter Yeast/Celis/Hops FAQ (npyle)
Zima in NJ (Gary S. Kuyat)
Re: Sam Adams T-shirt offer (Craig Artley)
s.g. and attenuation errors (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
Cooler Mashing ("Palmer.John")
Homebrew Digest Request (SIMMONS)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 14:12:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: WYEAST - 1084 - Irish Ale
J.A. Patrick writes:
>
> So, I am putting together a VERY comprehensive Bock tasting, and am trying to
> make sure that I have obtained samples of all readily available "Bock" beers.
> (Whether they are true Bocks or not! I intend to "call a Bock a Bock" DURING
> the tasting, but will allow _poseurs_ to enter the tasting up front. The
> truth shall triumph in the end!).
Just a data point for your tasting: Celis Bock is actually a Belgian style
ale, but is labelled a Bock because of "less than rational" Texas laws. From
living in Texas many years, I can tell you that Shiner Bock is not really
worth serious consideration in the genre of German Bock: I believe the main
attraction to that beer is that it could be had for $4.50/case + dep.(in 1980
anyway). A cultish kind of beer.
Also, didn't you omit Samuel Adam's Double Bock (what the heck is Samuel
Adams - a presumed American Patriot - doing brewing a German Bock??)
Jim Blue writes:
> The yeast FAQ says that 1084 is "great for stouts" and "very niced for any
> any cold-weather ale, at its best in stouts and Scotch ales." Question:
> how would it be in an ordinary pale ale, brown ale, or IPA? Porter?
I have used yeast blends in beers such as IPA, Barley Wine, and Porter with
good results. Depending on how much you like diacetyl, you can vary the
proportion of 1084 Irish Ale culture. I personally like diacetyl at
slightly above threshold level: at this level it adds complexity and
a slight "sweetness". If you use only 1084 Irish Ale yeast in your
beer, you will get a very noticable diacetyl character. I have used
1007 German Ale and 1084 Irish Ale in a 80% / 20% blend with good
results for several of the beer styles that you describe.
The 1007 German Ale strain is a good choice (IMHO) for many English
Ales because it finishes rather dry and produces a fair amount of esters.
Rob Reed
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:51:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tim Tillman (BIO)" <tillman@chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: thermometers
> Is my thermometer useless/unfixable?
I reccommend cooling the thermometer as cool as possible, preferably in
liquid nitrogen or dry ice. Then let it warm slowly.
The real idea here is to suck ALL the mercury into the bulb, so you
need to chill it to that point. Salted ice wated may work.
This technique often works.
Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 12:27:16 PST
From: florianb@yang.cna.tek.com
Subject: Re: Irish ale yeast
blue@cam.nist.gov (Jim Blue) writes:
>The yeast FAQ says that 1084 is "great for stouts" and "very niced for any
>any cold-weather ale, at its best in stouts and Scotch ales." Question:
>how would it be in an ordinary pale ale, brown ale, or IPA? Porter?
The Irish 1084 is an excellent yeast for all types of ale. I've used it
in a variety including stout, porter, red, brown, and pale. It goes in
fast, kicks ass, and cleans up well afterwards. No icky-poo smells and
tastes. It seems to ravage even when I don't promote it with a starter.
It's my favorite yeast for ales.
The Lambic from Wyeast is another really good one.
Florian
PS. I couldn't stay away forever.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 12:32:21 PST
From: florianb@yang.cna.tek.com
Subject: Pete Soper, remember him?
For you old-timers, I got a card from Pete Soper at Christmas. Haven't
seen him on the "radio" in quite a while. His email address doesn't
work. Clues?
Guess I'll have to, well, (write).
Florian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:04:10 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Liquid vs Solid Media/ Bucket Hole/ SLC Suppl.
>john ....said....
home: john@hopduvel.chi.il.us
work: isenhour@lambic.fnal.gov
> You really have to seal petri
dishes well (I use parafilm) and I prefer liquid because I feel there is less
exposed area (like agar where there is no yeast growth *???*) and liquids can
be sealed and transfered sterile more easily. My culture fridge is verboten
for any other storage. (* I store beer in there too..but that's yeast +)
* I would question relying solely on liquid cultures. One major advantage
of the use of plates is that you can SEE single colonies. Even with slants
you are able to get an idea if there is significant/obvious contamination.
Additionally, it is my belief that slants/plates can last longer as a
stable culture than a liquid culture. Due mainly to the fact that the
medium is solid, therefore nutrients will diffuse to the culture in a
slower fashion, thereby lasting longer than if they were all available
at once. In micro labs most cultures are STORED on slants, plates, or
frozen for longer term storage. It is rare to store a culture in a liquid
medium.
Also: for the average home rancher use of an inoculating loop and flame
are more readily available than sterilized pipets for liquid transfers.
I do re-use dregs, and will store them in flasks for a week or so, but
prefer to work from my pure cultures, on plates and slants in the fridge,
and feel I've had less contamination problems with this approach than
from use/storage of liquid forms of cultures.
I would at least suggest if you choose to maintain cultures in liquid it
would be worth your while to streak out a plate once in a while and check
for contamination. If you have a microscope...even better. But...
* Another Note: I have seen methods for sterilizing filter paper
for use with plate cultures. (blots)
The method involved placing the filter paper in the microwave with a
beaker of water and microwaving for 30 sec- min. If I remember right
the filter paper was wrapped inside foil. I tried this, and did not find
contamination due to the filter paper. Controls showed contamination when
using non-"waved" filter paper.
Bottom Line: IMHO Microwaving WILL sterilize things, but if the goods
are dry it is necessary to have water present in the microwave at the
same time, to absorb some of the waves, or damage to the unit can occur.
***
Jonathan Knight
was gonna cut a hole for a spigot in a bucket:
Suggestion: Get or borrow a hole cutting bit for a drill and do it right.
At least use a compass (face north) and draw a good circle. Then drill loads
of pilot holes around the perimiter (Little ones) and fine tune it with the
razor blade.
Also: You must choose the height. For a primary "siphonless" fermenter
I like to leave some room, about 3/4 inch up from the base. Reduces my
trubbles in a transfer to a secondary. For a bottling bucket ONLY go right
near the bottom.
NOTES: When filling bottles don't turn the valve off all the way in between
bottles, or you'll lose the liquid in the tube. Also watch for excess
oxidation of the last bottle (or so) due to air coming in the through the
valve as you near emptiness.
Otherwise, it works well. Go for it! (you can cover it with a lid while
bottling too, even purge with CO2 :)
***
From: curt nickisch <curt.nickisch@m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: SLC Homebrew Supply Shops
> Well, there exist three homebrew supply shops in SLC. I've been
frequenting Mountain Brew on about 2700 South State for the two years I've
been brewing, although I first got set up at Art's Brewing Supplies at
(I'm almost positive) 650 South Washington Street (250 West). Art's is a
little more expensive, but for a serious homebrewer, he is more experienced
and offers ambitious advice. His shop is also worth visiting even if it is
a little more expensive, the whole shop has quite an atmosphere.
Mountain Brew has a bigger collection of kits, and if you know exactly
what you want to get, you may as well buy it there and save a little.
* Rattle my change....I dunno 'bout that one. My experiences have been
quite the opposite. I guess I can't compare the extracts, since I don't
use them, but as for grain and gadgets I've definitely found Art to be
cheaper. I find him to be rather slimy at times, but he's a business man.
I was never impressed by the selection at Mnt Brew, whereas Art has some
serious supplies on hand, usually well stocked with most stuff.
He also sells hop rhizomes in the spring. He's got some nice vines
growing around the place. Fun to fondle his cones when stopping by.
It was even more fun to play with my own...once I got 'em growing.
I've found his advice somewhat mixed. But I find the same thing here :)
As for Mnt Brew, one thing I did like was their large supply of Vierka
wine yeasts, including a MEAD yeast. Many styles offered.
No connection with either of them. I've bought stuff at both.
I mostly mail order now. Salt Lake is a fair drive from Logan,
but when I do get down there...
My advise. Call both and get their catalogs. Decide for yourself. :)
Art's 801- 533-8029 *** Mnt Brew 801- 487-2337
I'm not familiar with BrewKraft. What is their phone#?
(Sorry for the commercial interlude..Back to your regularly scheduled debate)
John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P@cc.usu.edu
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////////////////////////
PS: While folks are revamping their sig.lines, how 'bout including
your e-mail address at the END of posts, 'cuz some of us can't work backwards
to find direction for responses. Otherwise I'd e-mail more than post!
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 13:54:15 -0800
From: froeh@jpats.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: Hazelnut extract source
Fellow Brewers,
I have found a great source for natural extracts. I tasted the Oregon
Nut Brown Ale featured in Zymurgy and found it to be one of my favorite
beers tasted this year (and that covers alot of beers). I couldn't find
any hazelnut extract in the stores however and I talked with several
brewers and couldn't get any info. I found a company near LA that makes
baking extracts and extract syrups used for flavoring coffees. I bought
a 2 lb jar with a pump dispenser for $19 plus $3 shipping and they gave
me a 1 oz sample of the 100% pure extract after I told them what I was
brewing beer.
So, I brewed 3 batches of Nut Brown Ale (4 gallons each). In one of
the batches, I used a Hazelnut Extract (100% pure, 1 oz). In another I
used a Hazelnut Syrup (used for flavoring coffee, 4 oz). The 3rd beer
was not flavored. These beers were well received by my homebrew clubs
as well as other brewers. The pure extract needed more aroma (probably
use 2 oz per 5 gallons next time) and the syrup had a very strong
hazelnut aroma as well as a drier mouth feel from the additional
fermentation. The syrup is made with some form of fructose sugar but it
did not impart any odd flavors. I would use about 3 oz per 5 gallon next
time.
The name of the place is Capriccio and is located in Chatsworth, CA
(phone (310) 535-6610). They have over 100 different pure extracts
and over 50 flavors of the syrups used to flavor coffee. The only
problem that I had was buying such a large quantity of the syrup. You
can only drink so much of this beer. The pure extract is more
expensive but you can buy 1 lb jars.
I have nothing to do with this company other than being a happy
camper by making odd beers with their product and drinking them.
_______
/ \
o | Cheers! |
o ____ .\_______/
o |o o| . Michael Froehlich
|~~~| (| > |) (310) 647-1482
| |)\ |\_/|
| | \ \_/ froeh@129.172.56.36
|___| \ |
OOOOO
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 17:09:17 CST
From: philb@pro-storm.metronet.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Aromatic Malt/Keg Secondary
Aromatic Malt
I used DeWolfe Coysins Belgian Aromatic Malt for the
first time today in a Marzen. Use it as 1 lb of my 12 lb grain
bill. This stuff smells wonderfully promising. I am hopeful
of it adding a super-malty taste to my Marzen.
Question -- I also mashed using a Double Decoction.
When I mixed the malts all together at the beginning of the mash
it smelt very malty. But after two decoction boils it did not
seem nearly so malty and in fact smelled like any other grain
mash I have done. Do you think that the high temperatures of the
decoction boil would have driven off some of the malty taste
and aroma of the Aromatic Malt? Or am I just worrying about
nothing. Anyone else have experience using DFC Aromatic? I love
to hear about your success.
Secondary in Stainless
Thanks to all of you how helped me how to conduct
a low pressure secondary in stainless steel kegs. Many suggested
knocking out the poppet valve in the tower then attaching a hose
over the tower and lead the tubing to a water jug a la a blowoff
tube.
I found that you don't have to rip apart your valves. Just
unscrew the gas tower. You can get tubing which will fit snuggly
over the threads. Then (because I am cheap) I went through a few
diameter reductions in tubing (fitting the next smaller size into
the larger feed tube) and finally settled down to a four foot
length of 3/8" tubing. Seems to work great!
- -----
Internet: philb@pro-storm.metronet.com
UUCP: metronet.com!pro-storm!philb
Bitnet: philb%pro-storm.metronet.com@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 18:00:00 MST
From: npyle@n33.stortek.com
Subject: FAQ
Tom Lyons writes:
>Sorry, but I don't see in the header anything about
>FAQs.
>From the header:
>Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
> (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
> listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
> message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Ask and ye shall receive. Send HELP to listserv@sierra.stanford.edu and you
will find the information you seek. Good Luck. Oh, use this thing during off
hourse or it will only talk to you for a short time (like 3 transfers total).
Yes, I realize that it says nothing about FAQs. You have to stretch a bit from
"archives" to "Frequently Asked Questions". Sorry.
Norm
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jan 94 21:40:47 MST (Tue)
From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: overcarbonation (weigh, don't measure volume!)
LLDSC@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu (?) writes:
> ... My only problem is that since my last batch (a dopplebock) was
> seriously undercarbonated, I tried to make up for it in this batch.
> Glass grenades is no understatement. I've had two bottles blow up
> already. I put the remaining ones in the fridge...
...
> 3/4 cup 3/4cup 3/4cup 3/4cup. I get it now.
Not quite.
You've "got it" that you *really* want to avoid overcarbonating, so keep
a careful upper bound on the amount of priming sugar. So far, so good.
Next comes "weigh,don't-measure weigh,don't-measure weigh,don't-measure"
Measuring sugar, in any form ground finer than ordinary table sugar, is
bound to be *seriously* inaccurate. This applies in particular to dry
malt extract and to dextrose (corn sugar) in the form normally sold in
homebrew shops...these can pack down to lose 20-25% of their volume!
(This refers to "packing" by just tapping the container to settle it.)
In other words, your 3/4 cup of dextrose might be equivalent to somebody
else's full cup. That's a big difference, and in particular it leaves you
with no margin for error.
One other thought: darker and heavier beers tend to have more "unfermen-
tables" that are really "slowly-fermentables"--they'll ferment after a
while. Two ways to deal with this:
* Be patient; be sure you've given a heavy beer enough time to "ferment
out" before bottling.
* Back off on the priming a little bit, in anticipation of getting some
extra kick from the residuals in the beer itself.
---
Dick Dunn rcd@eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Mr Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 12:03:24 +0100
From: dejonge@tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: A nit on potential extract
In HBD 1334 Dan morey writes:
> Projected Dextrins: 1 + ((0.25 * 50) / 1000) = 1.013
> (Lowest possible terminal gravity)
and futher on:
> ....if this was the case and yeast where
> *alcohol tolerant* our final gravities would always be 1.000!
A minor nit:
This is not quite true, life is more complicated than that.
Final gravity drops approximately 1.5 points for every % alcohol by volume.
For example, if you measure 1012 f.g. with 5% ABV the dextrin contents alone
would give a gravity of 1020.
By the way, the point you were making is of course still valid...
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Marc de Jonge dejonge@geof.ruu.nl
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 22:17:28 -0600 (CST)
From: jim@n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: Re: Ft. Walton brewers
Yes, I'm a bit behind on issues of the HBD...but considering the fact that
there hasn't been an HBD issue since Wednesday last week, I don't feel too
bad. :-) I have to wonder, though, if anyone will ever see this....
On Fri, 14 Jan 94, Jim King (jim.king@kandy.com) writes, regarding my
.signature:
> Ft. Walton beach brewers! My mother lives in Panama City. Do you
> know if there are any good homebrew supply shops in the PC/Ft. Walton/
> etc. area?
There is one homebrew shop here in Ft. Walton, and I believe there are
stores in Pensacola and Panama City, too, but don't quote me on that one.
The local shop is ``The Spare Bedroom Winery Supply'', run by Don and
Shirley Allison. The number there is (904) 862-4032. Address is
656A Beal Pkwy / Ft. Walton Beach, FL 32547.
Btw, there are quite a few brewers in this area (though I must admit, I
haven't been to any of the local meetings---they meet on Tuesday nights,
and that just doesn't work out on this end). As a result, I'm not sure
just how many homebrewers are in this area, but I do know that the various
grocery/liquor stores have little choice but to stock a reasonable supply
of import/micro-brew beer (it's not a great supply, mind you, but not bad,
either, especially considering the fact that this isn't what most people
would call a big city...but then, it's about as big as I can handle as it
is...I suppose that's why I live on the island, away from the main part of
the city <grin>).
Oh well, on to the rest of this HBD, and then on to the last (?) issue....
Later,
--jim
- --
73 DE N5IAL (/4) < Running Linux 0.99 PL10 >
jim@n5ial.mythical.com ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W
|| j.graham@ieee.org Packet: N5IAL@W4ZBB (Ft. Walton Beach, FL)
E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 08:30:13 -0500 (EST)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/@mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: various
Hi,
I'm reposting this since I got few responses last time. First, do many people
add dextrin and crystal malts at the mashout or in the beginning of the mash.
Thinking about it, wouldn't the enzymes in the mass breakdown the dextrins that
you are adding these malts for in the first place?
Secondly, does anyone have any info. on the price and distributers for the
Glatt Mill. He has been unresponsive and says he does not distribute from
his home anymore, only through distributers.
Thirdly, I have sent in a card in response to the Sam Adams Newsletter for
a free t-shirt. All I recieved so far has been more newsletters telling
me about the wonders and great traditions of Sam Adams. This included how
baseball players in the early days used to come by the original family
brewery and dip their mugs right into the copper kettle to get fresh beer.
I guess they were real men and just drank hot sweet wort!
Thanks,
Andy Kligerman
now living on 10 acres with my own well and first brew in the secondary (
first brew in the new homestead, that is).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 05:49 PST
From: jdg00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse)
Subject: Re: How long to prime???
Spencer wrote:
>You should mix VERY GENTLY. Here's what I do: I boil up a cup or so
>of water with the priming sugar. Then, after I've siphoned a bit of
>beer into the bottling container (I use a carboy, not having a plastic
>bucket I trust near my beer), I gently pour in the sugar solution, and
>continue siphoning. I figure the currents from siphoning mix in the
>priming solution pretty well. Boiling the sugar solution reduces the
>chance of infection and deoxygenates it.
Spencer forgot to mention the reason you start with 1/2 gallon or so of wort
BEFORE you add boiling hot sugar water. Here's why he suggests this. If
you put in the boiling liquid without any wort to absorb the heat, your
carboy makes the most interesting CRACK sound! Since then, I've always
covered my sugar water solutions while they're still boiling, and then let
them sit and cool to room temp.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse jdg00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp. joshua.grosse@amail.amdahl.com
Southfield, Michigan 810-348-4440
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 09:07:39 EST
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: shipping brew, pitching temp
Hi All,
Just a quick anecdote regarding the shipping of brew. In HBD 1334,
<STOREY@fender.msfc.nasa.gov> writes:
>It is shipped to me by RPS
>These guys know *exactly* what is in the box.
My father-in-law gave me a subscription to Beer Across America for
Christmas. I happened to be home the other day when the guy from RPS
showed up. As I had just stepped out of the shower, I left the poor
fellow on the front porch while I scrambled around looking for a robe.
The temperature was a balmy -8F (God, I love New England winters). When
I finally answered the door, I asked the guy why he didn't just leave the
package, and he said, "Hey, I didn't want your beer to freeze."
Makes you wonder if this "no alcohol" rule is just UPS weirdness.
*************
John Montgomery asks about pitching temperatures for lagers. You
should chill the wort to 48-50F prior to pitching. Pitching into room
temperature wort will result in faster starts, but will also result in
high levels of diacetyl and ester production. Depending on the strain of
yeast, there may be more of these substances produced than the yeast can
reduce later on. If you then move the fermenter from room temperature to
refridgerator temps, some of the yeast will die from temperature shock.
The trick is to pitch *very large* amounts of yeast at 48-50F,
which will minimize the lag time without producing off flavors in the
finished product. I'd also recommend an external controller for your
fridge, as you may find it difficult to get the fridge to 50F using it's
built in controller.
While on the subject, I've heard the Hunter Airstat is no longer
being made. Does anyone know of something equivalent?? I'd like to
pick up another one.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma@sky.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 09:48:17 -0500
From: aew@spitfire.unh.edu
Subject: Re: FLAT beer
Paul Writes: Recent openings (now two weeks after) have little fiz at all.
I had this problem once, I attributed it to poor mixing of the priming
sugar. Usually, I put the sugar water in the bottling bucket and rack
the beer onto it thus mixing it well as the beer flows in. In my batch
that had uneven carbonation I forgot and added the sugar almost at the
end. I assume the heavier SG solution sank to the bottom thus
overcarbonating the first few bottles and under carbonating the rest.
Losing my abnesia solved the problem. Hope yours is that simple.
-Al
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:44:13 -0500
From: WKODAMA@aba.com
Subject: Sanitizing Bottles
In #1334, Ulick noted, in response to my Grolsch top meltdown,
that he removes his Grolsch tops prior to sanitizing.
I'm curious: do you mean that you remove just the rubber gasket
or is it the entire metal "cage" and (ceramic) top works?
If it's the whole shebang, do you sanitize it separately? As you
know, the top has a little nub that protrudes through the gasket,
and is a potential infectant carrier. Also, does
removing/reinstalling that fatigue the metal?
Wesman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 09:43:16 EST
From: "Paul Austin (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn@vnet.IBM.COM>
Subject: Cardboard sixpack carriers, ceramic fermenters
Two questions:
1.Does anyone know where I can get overrun sixpack
carriers? Does any brew supply carry them? I'd
like to have blank ones so I can print stuff on
them myself.
2.Does anyone make ceramic (ie, glazed clay, not glass,
tho glass does qualify as 'ceramic' in some ways) fermenters?
Seems to me that ceramic or glass-enameled fermenters
would be useful if they were opaque.
Paul Austin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 10:26:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Aeriation/Dry hops/REpitching
> Subject: WORT AERATION
> Short, simple question: Has anyone ever used a small air compressor (the type
> that drives an airbrush, for example) to aerate their wort?
Sure, its a very common aeriation technique. Get a .2 micron filter to ensure
clean air into the carboy. Remember that air only contains 20% O2, so the
levels of dissolved oxygen will be lower than when using pure O2.
***************
> Sierra Nevada PA: Anyone out there have a tried and tested
> all-grain recipe for something similar?
5-10% caramel malt, single infusion at 152F, mash off at 170. Add Perle or
Cascade (whole hops work better for me) about 1-2 oz for kettle hop, finish
and or flavor hop with 1-2 oz Cascade, and dry hopping helps, with about
1/2-1 oz cascade. Wyeast 1056. OG 1.050ish, FG 1.012ish.
***********
> Subject: Question on flavor
> I once tasted a batch of beer that a friend had made, that had
> gone bad, and this exact taste was in evidence, only stronger. He told
> me that it was pyruvic acid.
Your friend was misinformed. Pyruvic acid is the normal precursor to
Ethanol. It is a fundemental part of normal fermentations.
*************
> Subject: yeast from trub
>
> I will be racking a dopplebock soon into a secondary carboy. What is the best
^^^^^^^^
> way to save some of the dormant yeast from the trub at the bottom of the
No!!!!! Never , ever culture from a high gravity beer. The upper end "rule
of thumb" is 1.060.
> Subject: Dry hopping - How to?
>
> 1) Are some hops better than others for dry hopping or is it a matter of tase.
Yes. EKG, Fuggles, Cascade, Centennial, S. Goldings, are my favorites.
> When dry hopping, do you:
> 1) Dump loose hops in the primary and xfer them over to the secondary?
Yes, but I leave em there, as I keg directly from the primary.
> 2) Dump loose hops in the secondary
This is what most people do.
> 3) put the hops in a mesh bag of some sort and put in the primary and seconday
This is done for ease of removal.
I suggest leaving them loose, and using a copper scrubby with a rubber band
over the siphon tube when racking. A few hop parts wont hurt.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 09:44 CST
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Steam Correction
In private email, Bob Regent said, that when he visited Anchor Brewing
a few months ago, they reported that the experiments with ale yeast
didn't go well and that they switched back to the Steam(tm) yeast for
the Porter. I appologize for posting dated information.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 94 16:04:03 GMT
From: GANDE@slims.attmail.com
Subject: Sierra Nevada or St.Ambroise PA
Richard sez:
>From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003@CompuServe.COM>
>Subject: Sierra Nevada
>Sierra Nevada this. Sierra Nevada that. I'm sick and tired of all
>this talk about Sierra Nevada pale ale. We can't get the stuff up
>here in Canada so quit rubbing in how great it is. I've read more
Richard, rush out and buy a 6 of St.Ambroise Pale Ale. It's very
close to SNPA without the sediment (boo..), and just as good IMHO.
It's made in Montreal to boot!.....Glenn
+----------------------------------+-----------------+
| Internet: gande@slims.attmail.com| "640K ought to |
| Glenn Anderson | be enough for |
| Manager, Telecom. Facilities | anybody." |
| Sun Life of Canada |-Bill Gates, 1981|
+----------------------------------+-----------------+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 08:18:38 PST
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP@cts27.comp.pge.com
Subject: SS Kettle problems
Morning from the left coast all you brew folks, After discussing the
values of a "Cajun Cooker" with the local Brew shop owner, he relayed a
problem he was having with his SS kettle, seems that he was getting small
cracks in his kettle from the high heat flame of his cooker, he thinks
that the heat is chasing the nickle content from the SS kettle right
where the flame hits the kettle. His solution was a 1/4" round steel
plate just below the cooker grill to absorb the intense heat. He hopes
this cures the cracking problem. Anybody else have this problem? Does
this seem likely to any of you metalurgists out there in the great vast
reaches of of the HBD? He is using a SS keg and not a clad kettle.
Thanks for any input, solutions, and offers of free brew.
Ed Quier ELQ1@pge.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 10:19:43 -0500
From: "Ben Piela" <ben@fcmc.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on flavor (Celis White)
Hi. This is my first post to the HBD and I am just a beginner brewer,
totally just starting out. I recently went to a MicroBrew Beer tasting
session over at Little Shop of Hops in Midtown NYC and one of the beers
we tasted was Celis White. The Celis White Beer generated the greatest
reaction from all that were involved. The moderator ( Sal ???, master brewer
for New York Harbor Ales. Sorry I forgot his last name) said something to
the effect that corriander was involved in the brewing cycle and contributed
to the aroma and flavor. For me, being the beginner that I am in tasting and
in brewing, I thought it tasted somewhat similar to Hacker Pshorr Weisse
Beer and I actually liked it. But, then again, everyone has different tastes.
Ben Piela
Fuji Capital Markets Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 10:01:23 CST
From: chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: Secondaries/Oatmeal Stout/Waterloo Brewpub
Hello folks in beerland....One question and some comments...
1. Can anyone please relate to me their experiences pro and con on the
use of secondaries in short term fermentations (og's < 70) - I have yet to
use one and am wondering if I am missing anything (I also currently do
partial extracts...so you know my mindset)?
2. I bottled a week ago a recipe for a partial mash oatmeal stout. I was
shooting for a replica of Youngs, what I got was very close, a sweet
stout with some of the creaminess from the oats. I am very pleased, and
will happily recommend the recipe, ask and ye shall recieve email.
3. For those of you in the Austin/Texas area, I recently visited the
Waterloo Brewpub and found it to be off to a nice start. Three beers
currently on tap....well worth trying. I will not attempt to critique them
for two reasons, one: I do not presume myself to be Austin's own Michael
Jackson (the Brit, not the twit) and two, they need encouragement and
support now more than they need criticism (IMHO). Please help the Austin
brewpub scene get rolling, quaff a locally brewed pint! Those of you in
the area, please email me with your impressions on Waterloo or any other new
brewery in town....TIA.
Good Luck and Good Brew - Chris
Chris Pencis-chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu-Blue Devil Transplant
University of Texas at Austin-Robotics Research Group-Go DUKE!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 10:39:58 CST
From: biszek@rose.hp.com (Don Biszek)
Subject: Re: Oktoberfest trip and Munich Brewery Tours
I don't want to rain on Bob Kosakowski's fun, but......
He (and others) are arranging a trip to Munich for Oktoberfest,
cost, $2000 - including Airfare, some transportation to sites, and
hotel.
Well current costs to Munich are about $700 rt, and I stayed in a
lovely B+B near the Science Museum for $60/night for a double. That comes
to $1000 for 10 days in Munich, not including food and beer. This B+B serves
a huge breakfast, so, some of your meal money is taken care of.
I know airfare may be more, but try ticket consolidators. I know it doesn't
include some transportation, but the subway (U-bahn) is cheap!
The extra $1000 must be going somewhere, because this is not a good
deal.
don
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 11:33 CST
From: BFRALEY@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
Subject: Should I Whole Grain?
I have a couple of questions for you experienced, especially wholegrain,
brewers. I have been extract brewing for one year and have experienced
excellent results. I now use Wyeast liquid yeast and am building my own
wort chiller. My question is should I take the plunge and go for whole-
grain brewing? I think I understand the basic process and am reading
Miller's book right now. My one problem is that I am in graduate school
and trying to study for my Phd exams next fall and so time is an issue.
I know I will need beer (perhaps in large quantities!) and I prefer homebrew
to store bought. Is the extra time and expense ( I need a grain mill) worth
it? I'd appreciate some feedback and suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Brad Raley
University of Oklahoma "Beer-Nature's Perfect Food!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 10:55:51 MST
From: npyle@n33.stortek.com
Subject: Utilization/Flat Steam/Bitter Yeast/Celis/Hops FAQ
Welcome back Glenn Tinseth! I am most curious to hear about your hop
utilization research, but, well, ummm, you realize this makes life difficult
for us poor homebrewers. Its back to the old question of "do I use the
correct numbers, or do I use the numbers everyone is used to (Rager's)?".
Well, knowledge is power, but how do I convert that power for use in the
brewery?
**
Regarding Paul Austin's flat steam beer: I think that you didn't mix your
priming sugar well. The first two bottles had lots of it, and the next few
got very little. I would guess that you'll find some more that are
overcarbonated. Just keep looking (and next time, stir better!).
**
Jim Busch writes about bitters:
>Yeast: Wyeast London, Youngs, Fullers cultures.
Why the London? This is not a flame, I'm just curious. London is famous for
its porters, whereas the good bitters are from Burton-on-Trent and scattered
parts, no? I would assume that the British ale yeast would be best for
bitters (and best bitters). Of course, this is assuming that Wyeast's naming
scheme is something more than random choice of names (bad assumption?).
Ulick writes later in the same HBD: "(but then Wyeast names often have no
relation to the source). Hmmmm....
**
Bill Knecht writes that Celis is pronounced "See-liss". I thought it was
"Say-liss". Tomayto, tomahto. Oh, the Celis White does not have an
uncorrected chill haze as you say, but then I should let the experts comment
on Belgian Wits. I know you've wounded some Wit lovers with your remarks,
but I'm not that sensitive. I do like Celis White.
**
George asks about dry hopping. I suggest you try the hop.faq file and see
if it answers your questions. Send the following message to
listserv@sierra.stanford.edu: get homebrew hop.faq. You should get a reply
in a few minutes.
Norm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 13:13:45 "EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk@sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Zima in NJ
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat
Zima hit NJ Yesterday. If you try this stuff, don't think "beer". It's like
a slightly yeasty tasting vodka and weak tonic. I didn't finish mine, but
some people might like it. It's unfair to judge this as beer, malt-beverage
maybe, but definately not beer.
- --
-Gary Kuyat
gsk@sagan.bellcore.com
(908)699-8422
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 11:22:17 -0700
From: cartley@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Craig Artley)
Subject: Re: Sam Adams T-shirt offer
In yesterday's digest, Mark_Worwetz@Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz) asked:
> A few months ago I received a Sam Adams(tm, of course) propaganda leaflet
> that contained an irresistable FREE T-SHIRT offer. Being a collector of
> such drivel I filled it out and mailed it away. I've since heard nothing
> from them. Has anyone else seen this offer? Has anyone received anything?
Someone else asked about the T-shirt offer a while back. At the
time I replied that I had sent in the coupon just after the GABF (early
October), but hadn't received anything. Well, about 3 weeks ago the
T-shirt finally arrived in the mail. As a matter of fact, I happen to
be wearing it at this very moment (underneath a sweater of course, so I
don't actually generate any advertising for the Jim Koch Litigation Team).
It took 3 months, but it finally got here. (The material is pretty thin,
but it was free....)
Craig
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 10:29:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: s.g. and attenuation errors
Mark_Worwetz@Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz) writes:
>
> A few months ago I received a Sam Adams(tm, of course) propaganda leaflet
. . . . Has anyone received anything?
I just received my shirt yesterday. I'm adding a "not" to the trademarked
phrase emblazoned on both sides.
dmorey@iastate.edu writes about potential extract:
> Projected OG: 1 + ((31 * 8) / 5) / 1000 = 1.050
> (This is our potential extract)
>
> Projected Fermentables: 0.75 * 50 = 38 pts of fermentables
> (Projected OG - FG in pts)
>
> Projected Dextrins: 1 + ((0.25 * 50) / 1000) = 1.013
> (Lowest possible terminal gravity)
Actually, the terminal gravity would be less than this due to the addition
of EtOH (s.g. <1) to the beer. This is similar to the difference between
real attenuation and apparent attenuation. Apparent attenuations tend to
be between 70 and 80%, in other words, the s.g. drops 70-80% of the amount
above 1.000 during fermentation. In fact, the amount of material actually
fermented is more like 55-60% (is this number right? It's something like
this). The EtOH makes it seem like the attenuation is higher.
> In this wort, the potential extract IS NOT the expected
> fermentable soluble matter in the wort. It is a total measure of
> the mass extracted during the mash process, this matter may
> contribute to fermentables, non-fermentables, head retension,
> color, flavor, etc.... My point is don't confuse specific
> gravity and potential extract as the measure of fermentable
> products in the wort, if this was the case and yeast where
> *alcohol tolerant* our final gravities would always be 1.000!
This last statement is doubly (a word?) wrong.
Alcohol tolerance rarely limits the degree of attenuation. Most yeasts
can handle at least 8% EtOH, which means that, roughly, a wort of OG 1.080
can be fermented without limitation by alcohol tolerance. Final gravities
are above 1.000 because the OG is made up of unfermentable material (as in
your example above) such as dextrins, proteins, etc. If all of the material
contributing to the fraction of the OG over 1.000 were fermented the FG would
be <1.000 due to the EtOH.
Jeremy Bergsman
Never a BW-wasting sig. (D'ohh! Oh well.)
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1994 11:14:59 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Cooler Mashing
Kelly Doran wrote:
1.) When using a 5 gallon IGLOO cooler, how
many pounds of grain will it hold and
still be able to maintain an exceptable
water to grain ratio for the mash?
I predict this will be the start of an interesting discussion on Cooler/Mash
Tun practices. It reminded me of a question that I asked our brewshop guy, Don
Seichert, and that is "How deep can/should the grain bed be?" His answer was,
one half of the shortest cross sectional dimension. For example, in a 14x16 x15
high cooler, the maximum grainbed depth should be 7 inches.
What do Y'all think?
In relation to Kelly's question, this would be how many lbs of grain will fit
in that cooler to a depth of 7 inches. Of course, it would be wet at this
point.
Also, the common amount of water quoted for mashing is 1.3-1.5 quarts per lb of
dry grain. On my last batch, porter, my grain bed depth was about equal to the
cross section dimension, but I didn't get stuck (whew).
2.) How much will the temperature drop in
45 to 60 minutes using a single infusion
mash?
I preheat my cooler with boiling water, so that when I add my mash, I don't
lose heat to the walls. I have not experienced more than a one degree drop in
temp over the hour that I mash, according to the dairy thermometer that I leave
floating in there. Its a good cooler and I put the lid on tight.
John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com
- always happy to answer metallurgy questions
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 14:28:52 EST
From: SIMMONS@FRED.DNET.ICD.Teradyne.COM
Subject: Homebrew Digest Request
Please sign me up.
simmons@chief.dnet.teradyne.com
many thanks.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1335, 01/27/94
*************************************
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