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HOMEBREW Digest #1293
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/12/09 00:33:49
HOMEBREW Digest #1293 Thu 09 December 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
A newcomers introduction. Danish brewing ("HANSEN M" )
Snakebite2 (Calum T. MacNeill)
Re: Snakebite ("J.Waghorn")
The Beer Hunter (Paul Beard)
Different Beers -Same Flavor/ No Carbination (was Snakebite) (Don Oswald)
recipe for Amstel light (taylor)
HopTech Fruit Extracts (Matthew Evans)
Re: Is Stoelting making a magic chiller? (Patrick Sobalvarro)
Pale Ale (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
Dream Tun (npyle)
re: REAL ice beer (darrylri)
How can I access the FAQ files in beer-l via listserv? (ESF01)
Pitching Rates (John Eustace)
Clone for Bahama's Kalik (LAEUGER)
Re: Krush-Off Comments (STROUD)
Correction (kopek.edward)
EKU 28 (GNT_TOX_)
Chiller model (Bill Szymczak)
Blow-off vrs non-blow-off (Bill Szymczak)
Snakebites and secondary fermentation question (Keith MacNeal 08-Dec-1993 1242)
Is Tim McNerney an idiot? (Tim P McNerney)
Trouble Carbonating Lager (WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02)
pasteur yeast: ferment temps? (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
Filtering/ BarneyWine (COYOTE)
Hop Teas and Dry Hopping ~# (Delano Dugarm 36478)
Bulk Lab Equipment / Boston Area (Mark Garti mrgarti@eng.xyplex.com)
Ice Beer (ELQ1)
Noche Buena - SF Bay Area (David Allison 225-5764)
noche buena by any other name... (LLAPV)
Names ("Peter Brauer 312/915-6157" )
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 10:07:07 MET
From: "HANSEN M" <0031@et.aarhus.ih.dk>
Subject: A newcomers introduction. Danish brewing
I have been brewing beer for the last 6-7 years but I am new to HBD
and I sure like what I see !
I am also one of the few Danish home brewers that brew the
'do it all yourself' beer. The normal procedure in this country is
to buy a package that contains all the material you need. But this brew
is based on dry yeast and malt-extract which both contribute to the
reduction of the taste.
I have read HBD #1281 - #1284, and i have got the feeling that most of
you are from America, and that you do not brew your beer the same
way that we do in Denmark.
So first I am going to give you a description of the material and the
procedures of the Danish way of doing these things. I apologise for my
humble English.
We are two students at The Department of Electronics at The
Engineering College of Aarhus, in the middle of Denmark, that have
build our own brewery in his cellar. In this cellar we brew the kind of
beer that is very related to the beer from Pilsen (Czechoslovakia) and
Bayern (Germany). The pilsner is ( as you might know ) most commonly
a relative light beer, but is also brewed in more dark sorts, a little like
the well-known porter. I guess you all know the Danish Carlsberg
Pilsner, which is a very light pilsner. (too light for me that is).
The ingredients we use is 4-5 different kinds of malt, hops, Bog myrtle
( Myrica ), sugar, salt and yeast.
The malt is a substance like syrup with a very fine taste. The sorts that
we can obtain are :
Light Malt for the light flavoured beer.
Dark Malt for the more dark but not necessarily strong beer.
Gold Malt for the semidark and strong beer. This malt is boiled with
hops in it.
Porter Malt for the very dark and porter-like beer
Barley syrup which i very similar to the light malt but with a little
different flavour. Unfortunately a rare malt.
These different types of malt is of course used in all kinds of
compounds. They are all bought in 15 kg cans for about $20-$25.
Bog myrtle gives a bitter taste a little like hops, but still different.
Rarely used, or in very small amounts.
The yeast is a liquid yeast for bottom fermentation (Saccharomyes
Carlsbergensis) that we simply pick up at the nearest brewery
according to an ancient Danish rule which says: 'Anyone are
entitled to pick up free yeast for his own personal use at any brewery'.
Use of this yeast makes it necessary to have plenty of cool storage
room for both the yeasting and maturing of the beer, which both must
take place in 5-7 Celsiusdeg. (40-45 F.).
Our solution to this are two modified freezers (new thermostat), one 500
liters and one 300 liters. This gives us a total storing capacity of
aprox. 200-260 liters in the form of 5 old fashioned 40 liters milk cans,
and up to 3 20 liters beer kegs (The type that the commercial breweries
uses).
This capacity gives us, if fully utilized, aprox. 40 liters every 10th
day.
The procedure is this :
The first thing to do, is to make 30-35 liters of boiling water. This is
done in an old milkcan, enhanced with 2 electrical heaters. Meanwhile
the malt, hops, sugar and other spices are weighed out. When the
water boils, the spices are added and carefully stirred. Then,
depending an the malt used, 1 - 1.5 hours must past with frequently
stirring. Light malt must boil longer than darker sorts, to develop the
fine taste it is known for. After the boiling, the wort must be cooled of.
For this purpose we have purchased an old milk cooler which run on
cold water only. This device can cool 40 liters of boiling water to aprox.
5 - 10 Celsiusdeg. in 15 minutes. Then the yeast ( which is reused
several times ) is added ( 0.5 liter ) and the wort is aired up/ventilated (
I don't know the right expression ) by pouring it back and forth a couple
of times. Finally the milkcan's opening is covered by a sterile bathing
cap (the hospital kind), and placed in the freezer (fridge) for yeasting.
Wait, wait, wait for at least 3 weeks.
Then, after the yeasting the beer is gently transported to another
milkcan for maturing ( to avoid the sediment), and stored at the same
temperature of course. This milkcan is closed with a pressursave lid,
and CO2 is added to about 1.5 atm (22 psi). This pressure is
maintained throughout the next 3 weeks (at least). Mostly this is done
by adding CO2 once every 2nd or 3rd day during the first 1 or 2 weeks.
After this maturing the beer is drinkable, but before we drink serious
quantities we remove the pressure from the can, and transport the beer
gently to two beer kegs which we pressurize and store for 5 - 10 days
so that the beer can absorb the right quantity of CO2. After this the beer
is finally a fine, clear and delicate tasting draught beer. The serving is
done from a small refrigerator with a CO2 bottle and a suitable placed
tap. We also posses a transportable box with CO2 and a tap, for feasts
and its like.
This procedure is only the most commonly for unproblematic beer, and
will of course be adjusted for beer with lack of behaviour.
What you have just read is only a superficial description of the
methods and materials we use. I will bee happy to go into details if
anyone would be interested.
Second, it seems to me that most of the stuff you guys write to HBD
looks a little like a closed discussion. So it is very difficult for me to
gain an insight into the methods you use. Therefore I would be very
interested in some basic information about the way that you guys brew
your beer, thank you. ( Some kind of dialouge could be very interesting)
If any of you would want to reply, it might take a couple of days before
I will be able to get back to you, simply because I am looking right into
to heavy examinations.
Do feel free to mail me directly.
Merry Christmas, Morten Hansen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:21:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: ctmn@sabhal-mor-ostaig.ac.uk (Calum T. MacNeill)
Subject: Snakebite2
After further investigation ie I spoke to an ex-barmaid! the
situation regarding the illegality of snakebite in the U.K
does cover the whole of the country and not just England & Wales
as I suggested.
So why can I get it in my local?
Apparently it is O.K to sell it with a dash of blackcurrant
which I would refer to as "snakebite black" but was put
to rights on this matter as it is more commonly known as
Diesel and taken alongside a bottle of Holsten Pils!!!
Just had to clear up my previous errors.
Calum MacNeill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:51:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: "J.Waghorn" <ts0jwa@orac.sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Snakebite
Well I live in England, work behind a bar & as far as the licensing
law stands, Snakebite is not illegal, it may be frowned upon, and a
friend of mine did say he wasn't able to get it in Merseyside due to
a local byelaw....... (Truth or otherwise of this claim unverified)
And anyway if Snakebite was illegal, would it not also be illegal to
sell someone a half pint of lager & a half pint of cider or any
possible way for them to make a Snakebite, because by selling them I
would be an accessory to the "crime"
Not that any of this bothers me at all as I don't count lager as a
drink & when I drink cider I drink cider - not polluted with any of
this other BS, when I drink beer, I drink gallons (hic)
- --
. .
/ `. .' \
.---. < > < > .---.
| \ \ - ~ ~ - / / |
~-..-~ ~-..-~
\~~~\.' `./~~~/
. ''''. \__/ \__/
.' O \ / / \ \
(_____, `._.' | } \/~~~/
`----. / } | / \__/
`-. | / | / `. ,~~|
~-.__| /_ - ~ ^| /- _ `..-' f: f:
| / | / ~-. `-. _||_||_
|_____| |_____| ~ - . _ _ _ _ _>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 07:53:00 -0500
From: paul.beard@gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard)
Subject: The Beer Hunter
There was some talk on alt.beer or rec.craft.brewing about Micheal
Jackson's series returning to PBS (KQED/SF). I hope everyone knows you can
buy the series on 2 cassettes and watch whenever you like. A colleague and
fellow brewer graciously loaned them to me; they are available from
Discovery, but I dunno how much they are.
Why wait for your local PBS affiliate to get hip?
Paul Beard
AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067
404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp@tridom.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 08:45:52 EST
From: oswald@columbia.sparta.com (Don Oswald)
Subject: Different Beers -Same Flavor/ No Carbination (was Snakebite)
ctmn@sabhal-mor-ostaig.ac.uk writes about problems with
gettin a beer to carbinate. Potential causes:
inperfect seal on the barrell
dead yeast - (I did this once -left steralization
solution in the bottle)
No food for the yeast -- You post did not mention how much
priming suger you used about a cup is usually
enough for a 5 gallon batch
And a Suggestion for the next batch: (assuming you did what I did
with myfirst batchs of "instant homebrew- makes 5 gallons just add
suger and water")Use the exact same kit and procedures, except
substitute amber Dry Malt Extact for the corn suger. The
resulting beer will have a less cidery taste, more body.
ALLISON.DAVID@A1GW.GENE.COM writes
> In short (hopefully), my last two brews came out with the
>same flavor, but I used different ingredients.
The recipies are both for rather mild beers that would
show the effects of processing errors or contamination.
Potential efffects and causes:
Contaimiination: The taste could be the hallmark of a
wiild yeast that has taken up residence at your address.
If this is the case, either be very carefull with stearilization
or breew styles which can live with the taste.
Running Hot: Even a good yeast will produce off flavors
if picthed to hot, or fremented at to hot a temperature. The
lager yeast esp.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 08:58:00 EST
From: taylor@e5sf.hweng.syr.ge.com (taylor)
Subject: recipe for Amstel light
Does anyone out there have an extract recipe for Amstel Light. This is the only
beer my wife will drink for some reason. I'd like to see if I can make
something close. I will also take ideas using extracts and all grain recipes
if anyone has one. What hop to use?, DME?, grain? etc... thanks Todd....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1993 09:22:00 EST
From: Matthew Evans <matt@cadif.cornell.edu>
Subject: HopTech Fruit Extracts
I just got the catalog today from a company
called HopTech. Mostly they just sell hops,
but they did have some concentrated fruit
extracts. They are sold in four ounce bottles
and contain enough "stuff" to make about 15
gallons of fruit beer. They don't have any
sugars in them, so you add them to the beer
right before bottling. Anyone ever heard of
this stuff or tried it yet. It is a lot
cheaper than the real fruit itself, so it would
be a good cost savings, but the question is,
will it be good to taste?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 10:02:27 -0500
From: pgs@thillana.lcs.mit.edu (Patrick Sobalvarro)
Subject: Re: Is Stoelting making a magic chiller?
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 13:51:54 PST
From: tpm@wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)
I got this flyer from Stoelting which makes the following claims for its
wort chiller:
Chills 5 gallons of wort from 210F to 56F in 15 minutes at .33 GPM.
...
Am I missing something here? Here is the rest of the info:
...
The wording is ambiguous, and I presume that what they meant was that
the wort flows at .33 GPM. The coolant is another matter!
-P.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 07:54:59 PST
From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311@xerox.com
Subject: Pale Ale
Hi All,
I'm an all-grainer who likes a BIG tasting pale ale, not necessarily in
OG or alcohol level, but very malty and very hoppy. Of course the hoppy part is
easy, and some yeasts have helped with the malty part. I use M&F pale 2-row
and mash at around 155degF. My idea is to add 1/4 or 1/2 lb pale at mash out,
to add flavor. What would be the pros and cons of this? Or is there something
else I haven't considered?
Thanks much,
John
Rochester, NY
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 8:57:52 MST
From: npyle@n33.stortek.com
Subject: Dream Tun
I am a happy all-grain brewer, planning my 21st batch (of which about half have
been all-grain) for the upcoming holidays. My grain-mill is a home-made roller
mill which should suit my needs forever. My boiler is a very nice, propane
fired (converted NG water heater element), 10 gallon cream can from an old
dairy. I have a hop-back, and nice CF chiller to boot. I ferment happily in
carboys (7g & 5g).
The component I've left out is obviously the mash/lauter tun. It is a
Rubbermaid 48 quart cooler with copper pipe manifold. It does what is intended
for it to do, which is to serve well as an insulated single temperature
infustion mash and lautering vessel. What it does not do, of course, is step
mashes, which would be nice, nor does it offer any easy way to add heat if I
miss my strike temperature for any reason. Also, it will eventually warp
enough from the heat that I'll need to replace it (it is showing signs of this,
after many batches).
Kettle mash, you say? I don't want to lose so much heat during mashing that I
have to attend the thing constantly; the best thing about mashing is that I
can go do other things (such as go to work for a half day, as was mentioned
here a few weeks ago). Also, I have had a lot of trouble with temperature
overshoot when kettle mashing. I prefer an insulated tun for the non-
attendence feature during a normal infusion mash. If I am going to do a step
mash or something different, then I certainly wouldn't mind working it.
So, my question is this: if you were able to design the ideal mash/lauter tun
system, for homebrewing applications, how would you do it? I'd like to do up
to 10 gallon batches, but more capacity than that is not necessary. Assume
that cost is a factor (always minimize it), but that I have an unlimited
resource in terms of welding, pipe bending, etc. (almost true). I have propane
in my brewery/garage, 110V (but no 220V), and soon will have hot and cold
running water. I'm looking for something I can use for a lifetime, that is
versatile, and most of all: neat!
Should I convert a SS half-barrel keg by insulating it and adding a propane
burner? Steam jacket? Hot water jacket? RIMS? uP controlled (I think this
is overkill, personally)? How about an insulated vessel with a steam bubbler?
Or a removable radiator (reverse chiller)?
One more thing, how about a sparge water vessel? I currently use my boiler,
but I have to transfer the water to a bucket, so that I can free up the boiler
for the first runnings. This is one reason I batch sparge most of the time.
The idea of mixing the grain and strike water as they fall into the tun
(obviating the need for "dough-in") also intrigues me.
I ask this to generate some discussion and maybe something good will come out
of it for many HBD tinkerers. I'd like to hear what works well for you, but
also what you only dream of making (maybe I'll make it!). As always, we thank
you for your support.
Norm
------------------------------
Date: Wed Dec 8 07:35:01 1993
From: darrylri@microsoft.com
Subject: re: REAL ice beer
KOPEK.EDWARD (ACTG Data Mgmt Ctr, FSTRF, Amherst, NY) writes:
> For anyone who wants to taste a _real_ ice beer, try EKU Kulminator
> Urtyp Hell 28 from Germany (That's the entire name of the beer, honest!).
> It is concentrated by freezing as are the North American "ice" beers.
EKU 28 is not, in fact, concentrated by freeze distillation. (See
Michael Jackson's "New World Guide to Beer", p. 54.) It is
brewed from a wort that does achieve at least 28 degrees Plato
(about sg 1.112).
The only true eisbock I'm aware of in Germany is made by the Kulmbacher
Reichelbraeu brewery, a smaller neighbor of EKU's. Their Bayrische
G'frorns (frozen Bavarian) beer has a calculated OG of 24 degrees
Plato, and the beer is far more drinkable (if that is the right
word) than EKU 28.
The story is that a tank of beer was accidently left out in the
freezing weather and that when opened, this nectar flowed out.
The Niagara Brewery in Canada produces an eisbock with some regularity.
It's an interesting beer, although it makes no attempt to scale the
gravity or alcoholic heights, coming with a mere 8% alcohol by volume.
It tends to have an estery background, which is probably emphasized
by the concentrating process. Even so, it has a lager character to
it and I don't think many judges would liken it to a barleywine.
> Oh, and it is reputed to have the highest alcohol content of any commercial
> beer. (Maybe, maybe not). I know it is around 12%, and it packs a wallop!
No; EKU 28 has the highest OG of any regularly available beer. But
Hurlimann's Samichlaus, brewed from a slightly lower OG, is a bit more
fermentable and so has a higher alcoholic result (and a more drinkable
product, IMHO). This, in spite of the boastful claims on the EKU 28
label ("Das starkste Bier der Welt").
--Darryl Richman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 11:16:27 EST
From: <ESF01%ALBNYDH2.bitnet@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: How can I access the FAQ files in beer-l via listserv?
Hello Homebrew Aficionado's,
My first brew is chugging away merrily - the CO2 vapors coming out of
my blow off tube smell heavenly.
I have read Papazian's, "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing", from
cover to cover and would like now to review the FAQ files for beer-l on
listserv or anonomous ftp somewhere. I've sent INDEX LISTSERV to
LISTSERV@UA1VM.BITNET to get a list of FILELIST but BEER-L doesn't seem to
be on the master list.
Can someone either e-mail me directly or I you feel the info would
benefit all, email the list with information on how one can obtain the
previous postings from BEER-L.
TIA :*) [The * is my red nose from drinking too much of homebrew ...
Ed F.
___________
* Edward S. Frommer ESF01@albnydh2.bitnet *
* NYS Health Dept. Bureau of Production Systems Maintenance *
* Vital Records & Vital Statistics Networking Systems *
* 733 Broadway Albany, NY 12237-0001 Phone: (518)474-5245 *
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 93 10:59:01 EST
From: John Eustace <3JCE1@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Pitching Rates
Hi all,
I have a question I'd like to ask concerning pitch rates for lagers. I've
recently been given the opportunity to help out my local brewpub. Seems they
have been using dried yeasts for quite some time now, and the new brewmaster
would like to switch over to liquid yeasts. He has asked me to help him in
this endeavour. I have a fair bit of experience at culturing yeast for my own
5 gallon batches, but now we're talking about pitching to 180 gallons.
Using the formula for lager pitching in the yeast faq, I have determined that
I need to pitch .72 gallons of slurry. This figure seems extremely low to me.
So I put it to you, what kind of a fermentation can I expect from such a
pitching rate? I imagine it will be an extremely slow one. Any formulas
for determining healthy pitching rates, or any other technical information you
think might be of use would be appreciated.
- ------------------------------------------
I have another, unrelated, request for information, this one on brewery
geometry. Basically, I am interested in any information you might have on how
kettle and fermenter geometry influence hop utilization and fermentation rates.
TIA and Cheers
JE
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 11:01:56 -0600 (CST)
From: LAEUGER@smsd.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Clone for Bahama's Kalik
A friend of mine asked me if I could brew a beer that emulates a beer he had in
the Bahamas this past summer. It is called Kalik (spelling questionable) and i`
supposedly the number one beer in that country. Does anyone know of a recipe
that I could use to try to copy this beer? Appreciate your suggestions.
Michael Laeuger
------------------------------
Date: 08 Dec 1993 11:55:31 -0500 (EST)
From: STROUD%GAIA@leia.polaroid.com
Subject: Re: Krush-Off Comments
>From:arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
>Subject: KRUSH-OFF
>
>Clearly, a mill that is more than twice as large should demonstrate a
>significantly higher throughput at a given rpm than what you have described.
>This test is only valid if they are both run at exactly the same speed and no
>mention of the RPM was made.
>
>It should further be noted that the MM as shipped is set up for hand cranking
>and the grain guides provide a restricted flow to assure ease of cranking
>with the very large rollers. To miximize throughput when motorized, the
>grain guides can be trimmed to provide a larger hole that will feed the grain
>as fast as the 10" rollers will take them.
Jack, you have most likely already answered the question. The hopper hole
opening into the MaltMill is only a fraction of the length of the rollers. In
addition, there is a large mesh plastic screen that covers the opening (for
safety reasons). I suspect that both of these factors work to limit the speed
at which the malt kernels can reach the rollers, so I am not surprised that the
MaltMill and GlattMill crush at about the same rate. It is interesting to
note that the hopper holes of the two mills are about the same size.
BTW, I am sure that you are right that a larger hopper hole would increase the
throughput on a MaltMill, but we tested it as manufactured. I can
handcrank/crush 8+ lbs of malt in ~2 min. with my unmodified MaltMill. The
Glatt Mill is a touch slower, but similar. Does it really make any difference
in the length of my brewday if I spend 2 vs 3 minutes crushing grain?? Not to
me; either one is a vast improvement over my old Corona!
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:20:40 -0500
From: kopek@karloff.fstrf.org (kopek.edward)
Subject: Correction
08129312031600E 0016500000000
Date: 08 Dec 1993 12:03 EST
From: KOPEK.EDWARD (ACTG Data Mgmt Ctr, FSTRF, Amherst, NY)
To: homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
cc: KOPEK.EDWARD
Subject: Correction
Attach:
I have been reminded by several HBD readers that EKU is _not_ an
ice beer in the same sense as the ones from Bud, Molson, etc. The
EKU is frozen to precipitate out protein, but the ice is not removed.
Thus, it is not a true eisbock. It still tastes pretty darn strong, though.
Sorry for the errant information!
I guess I need to do more, ahem, research into this ice beer dilemma.
I'll start with a Buffalo Blizzard Bock (Buffalo Brewing Company, Buffalo,
N.Y.) I'm gonna have one straight, then I'm gonna freeze one and filter
out the ice first. It may not be a real "eisbock" either, but it'll
be fun to try!
-Ed (Hit-an-iceberg(eisberg?)) Kopek
.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:23 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: EKU 28
In HBD #1292 Ed Kopek talked about EKU Kulminator Urtyp Hell 28.
Well consulting with my family in Germany, I got the scoop on whether
EKU 28 is really the strongest commercial beer around. The story in
Bavaria is that the 28 in EKU 28 is the PROOF of the beer. You got
it. 28 proof aka 14% alcohol. I have a bottle saved from when I last
tried the stuff. If you read the label carefully, you'll notice that
nowhere on the bottle is it referred to as beer. It is referred to as
malt liquor.
Correct me if I'm wrong(and I know you will), but isn't there a
federal law that says beer can only be a maximum of 6% alcohol?
Anything stronger than that has to be called a Malt Liquor.
Oh well, that my $0.02...
Andy Pastuszak
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:40:46 EST
From: bszymcz@ulysses.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Chiller model
Yesterday, Tim writes:
>From: tpm@wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)
>Subject: Is Stoelting making a magic chiller?
>I got this flyer from Stoelting which makes the following claims for its
>wort chiller:
>Chills 5 gallons of wort from 210F to 56F in 15 minutes at .33 GPM.
>So basically, 5 gallons of water (.33 * 15) to chill 5 gallons of wort from
>210F to 56F. It seems to me that if you were able to obtain perfect heat
>transfer and the water you were using was 32F, the best you could hope to
>get is 121F.
>Am I missing something here? Here is the rest of the info:
A few weeks ago someone reported that using an immersion chiller
that he was able to reduce 5 gallons of boiling wort to 90F
using only 8 gallons of Texas tap water. At first, I made an
estimate like yours (assuming Texas tap water is 60F) and
concluded that 118F was the best possible. Then I tried a
simple model of an immersion chiller.
Let Ti = the constant inlet tap water temperature
Tk(t) = the time varying temperature of the wort in the
kettle. (Here I'm assuming that the wort is being
constantly stirred so that its temperature is
uniform.
To(t) = the time varying temperature at the outlet of
the chiller.
dw = a small amount of water passing through the coil.
N = the amount of wort in the kettle
dt = a small time increment
R = dw/dt = the rate of flow through the chiller
(coil).
Furthermore, if the coil is sufficiently long or R is
sufficiently small then we can assume that
Tk(t) = To(t) = T(t),
that is, the temperature at the outlet is the same as the
temperature in the kettle.
Then
dw * Ti + N * T(t) = (N+dw) * T(t+dt) (1)
which simply expresses the fact that dw gallons at Ti added
to N gallons at T(t) will equilibriate to N+dw gallons at
temperature T(t+dt). Dividing (1) by dt and rearranging terms
yields
dT R
-- = - * (Ti - T)
dt N
which in the limit at dt -> 0 becomes a differential equation.
The solution (assuming the initial temp T(0) = 212F) is
T(t) = Ti + (212-Ti)*exp(-R*t/N) .
The amount of time t required to reduce the temperature from
212 to T is
N (212-Ti)
t = - log|------|
R ( T-Ti )
and the amount of water required is A=Rt.
So if we had such an optimal immersion chiller and constantly
stirred, and the tap water was Ti=40F and we wanted to chill N=5
gallons to T=56F we would need
A = 5 log ((212-40)/(56-40)) = 11.87 gallons.
I have not done a similar analysis for counterflow chillers, but
it seems that either Stoetling was exagerating or counterflow
chillers are more efficient (as far as water conservation is
concerned) than immersion chillers. Note that if you simply
mixed 11.87 gallons of 40F water with 5 gallons of 212F you
would get 16.87 gallons at 90.98F, so immersion chilling is
somewhat efficient.
Bill Szymczak
bszymcz@ulsses.nswc.navy.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:41:41 EST
From: bszymcz@ulysses.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Blow-off vrs non-blow-off
Every now and then people have been debating the use or not of
using a blow-off, so I thought I would add a data point to this
controversy. I brewed 6 1/2 gallons of IG 1.041 English Special
Bitter style which was siphoned into a 7 gallon carboy and
pitched about 3/4 quarts of yeast starter. After about 3-4
hours I reracked the wort, filling one 5 gallon carboy to about
3 inches from the brim, and the other with the remainder. Both
batches began fermenting after about 10 hours and the filled
carboy began blowing-off after about 12 hours. Originally, I
had planned to bottle both batches after 7-10 days in primary,
but after 10 days the bloww-off batch was still bubbling every
13 seconds, while the non-blow-off batch seemed finished. So,
after 11 days I reracked both batches and was shocked to find
the gravity of the blow-off batch to be 1.020, while the
non-blow-off batch was down to 1.011. The non-blow-off batch
was bottled the next day, while I let the blow-off batch sit in
secondary for another 10 days, at which time it was bottled with
an FG=1.013. After waiting about 3 weeks I was ready to compare
the batches. (I conjecture that the blow-off batch was filled
too high and a lot of the healthy yeast got blown out, thereby
slowing the fermentation.)
I found both batches to be similar - IMHO a good example of the
English bitter style, fruity, malty, full to medium bodied with
a nice Kent Golding hop aroma and flavor. However, although I
am a BJCP judge, I lost my confidence in distinguishing
taste subtleties after failing a self inflicted taste test
during a tour of the Anheiser-Busch brewery in Williamsburg VA
about a month ago. I could not distinguish between bud,
bud-dry, bud-lite and Michelob. Well, maybe bud and Michelob has
slightly more lingering aftertastes. (Remember the Simpson's
episode where Duff, Duff-dry, and Duff-lite were being filled by
the same pipe.) So, I brought samples to
the BURP homebrew club meeting for a more unbiased comparison.
I did tell them that one was blow-off and one was not, but I
didn't identify which was which.
Some of the members correctly identified the blow-off batch
saying they thought it was slightly smoother, (one correctly
identified the blow-off batch but said she liked the
non-blow-off batch better). Some incorrectly identified the two
batches and some "punted" and said no difference. All agreed
that if there was a difference it was minor. Therefore,
despite the wide variations in fermentation times, both batches
came out nearly identical with the blow-off having little or no effect.
Of course, this is just one data point and your mileage may
vary.
Bill Szymczak
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:48:34 EST
From: Keith MacNeal 08-Dec-1993 1242 <macneal@pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Snakebites and secondary fermentation question
In HOMEBREW Digest #1292 ctmn@sabhal-mor-ostaig.ac.uk (Calum T. MacNeill)
says:
>In fact it is quite common around here to order
>a "snakebite black" which is the half lager, half cider mix but
>with a dash of blackcurrant.
Sounds like the "Purple Nasty" I was introduced to at a Rugby Club in the UK.
>On a different note I wonder if anyone could help me with the
>problem I have with my present batch of 'instant' homebrew.
>It's one of these buy your tin of wort with everything included
>except water and sugar. The problem is that primary fermentation
>went like a dream, but now that i've transfered it to my pressure
>barrel for secondary fermentation nothing's happening, ie no pressure
>build up what so ever. I've tried adding extra yeast but to no
>avail. Please help ASAP as this is supposed to be the main attraction
>of a Christmas Eve party. HELP!!!!!!!!!
Sounds to me like you moved it to the secondary a bit too late if you were
looking for it to carbonate itself in the secondary. The beer may have
completely fermented out in primary. Trying boiling up a little bit of
corn sugar (I'm not sure of the proper amount since I don't keg, but I think
it is on the order of 1/3 to 1/2 cup) in some water and adding it to the
secondary.
Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 10:39:49 -0800
From: tpm@wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)
Subject: Is Tim McNerney an idiot?
Why yes, he is.
Thanks for everyone who pointed out the bloody obvious. The .33 GPM is
for the wort (Gee, Tim, why does the amount of water exactly equal the
amount of wort when you make your calculation? Must be one of those strange
coincidences, Tim, and not something like an obvious flaw in your logic
yelling out at you.)
A couple of people have asked about information on the Stoelting equipment,
so I guess my post was not completely in vain (though it did my vanity no
good).
Stoelting, Inc.
502 HWY 67
Kiel, WI 53042
(800) 336-BREW
Their line of products looks VERY nice. The stats on the wort chiller I
mentioned yesterday should give some idea on some of the stuff they sell.
The only problem is that their stuff is awfully pricey, but if you want
to go first class, this is the way to go. The aforementioned wort chiller
runs for $314. They also have kettles from 7-20 gallons with a bottom
drain valve. Their stuff really looks like the "equipment the pros use"
only shrunk down to homebrew sizes (if only they left their shrinking system
running for a little longer on their prices).
Sorry for wasting space with a stupid question (if you believe their are
no stupid questions, go reread mine) and I hope most everyone took time
to laugh at me via private email (please feel free to send me mail telling
me how clueless I am, even if you didn't read the original article and don't
know what I am talking about).
Thanks.
- --Tim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 14:22:00 -0500
From: WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02@i3125ent.atl.hp.com
Subject: Trouble Carbonating Lager
Hello all,
I am having trouble getting my first 'custom' lager to carbonate in
the bottles. I have read a little bit about adding yeast right to the
bottles and re-capping... but would like a little more help before
I take a chance with 2+ cases of (so far) good beer.
Recipe Yeast Labs L35 California Lager Yeast
for 5 3.5 lbs GlenBrew Hopped Pilsener Malt Extract
Gallons: 2.5 lbs light dried malt extract
1 lb American Caramel malt (10^o)
1 oz. Tettnanger (15 min.) + 1 oz. Saaz (3 min.)
Pitched at 73^o, 5 days primary (plastic) at 55^o, 23 days secondary
(glass) started at 55^o and gradually moved down to 45^o. Total=4 weeks.
O.G. = 1.050 / F.G. = 1.020 (F.G. after 5 days was also 1.020)
The beer has been in bottles now for three weeks. There is very little
carbonation. I have stored some bottles at 45^o, some at 55^o and even
a couple at 75^o and no luck. The beer tastes good - sweeter/maltier
than a pilsener (the Calif. Lager Yeast is supposed to do that),
noticeable hop flavor/aroma and no off-flavors, but no carbonation.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. (I apologize if this
topic has been covered on the digest in the past... unfortunately I
don't have the opportunity to read 'em all).
Cheers,
Mike Westra
Please reply to: mwestra@stpaul.msr.hp.com -or- to the Digest
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 11:43:21 -0800
From: mfetzer@UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
Subject: pasteur yeast: ferment temps?
I'm getting a little pissed at my doublebock, dropped from 70 to 26 like a
stone and then just sat there for the last week or so. All the yeast
dropped out, fermentation stopped. I just pitched some pasteur champagne
yeast, because it will not change the flavor profile, but should ferment
this stuff lower. Now it occurs to me:
what are ideal ferment temps for pasteur champagne yeast?
Mike
- --
Michael Fetzer pgp 2.2 key available on request
Internet: mfetzer@ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet: FETZERM@SDSC
HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1993 12:48:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Filtering/ BarneyWine
Hullo Brewmeisters one and all.
Just thought I'd chime in...as always...
RE: Filtering Discussion:
I had this debate last night with a couple fellow brewers.
I personally think I'd have something to gain by filtering.
I could probably get by with finings and do just as well.
I have several times come up with a keg of beer with sediments
in the bottom that would easily be filtered out. Otherwise every
time the keg is moved it's stirred up again.
Advantages: remove dry hop material/ spices/ clumps in general.
Leave most of the yeast behind. Clarify a beer instantly so it can
be carbonated by shaking w/o needing to settle afterwards to clear.
Then it can be moved w/o clouding.
Jim sez he thinks a 5 micron filter is going to remove cells.
Most bacteria are on the order of 1 micron. yeast fall more in
the 3 micron range. Cells can aggregate and "act" bigger.
But I would contend that a 5 micron filter is definitely not
going to "sterilize" a beer. And from my understanding (NOT experience)
it will not REMOVE the body of a beer. It may well "thin" things
a bit. At 3 microns there is more cell removal, but still not
sterilization. I don't have a problem with lowering the cell
count in a keg. I force pressurize, so I don't "need" them there,
but I like my B-vitamins, so I don't plan to get rid of them ALL.
***
- ------------------------------------------------------
Barney's Blebbing BarleyWhine: (planofaction)
10# 6 Row Pale Malt
10# 2 Row Pale malt
4# 2 row vienna
2# aromatic munich-belgian
2# Biscuit-"
1# Crystal- 60L
1# Crystal- 120L
1/2 cup roast
Mash. Pull first 6.5 gallons of sparge. Begin boil.
add: 6# Williams english dark extract
2# Brown sugar
Boil Hops: 1 oz Chinook (13a), 1.5 oz Centennial (10a)
1/2 Boil: 1 oz Cascade (7.3a), 0.5 oz N. Brewer (7.6a)='93!
Finish: 1 oz Homegrown Cascade- alpha unknown! :) but stinky!
Abbey Ale yeast culture. Warm initial ferment. (65-70).
Then cooler into secondary...maybe even down to the 50 deg basement!
Bottle with 1 cup molasses. Age for a LONG time. :)
- -----------------------------------------------------------
I'll draw the 2nd runnings of the sparge and make a 2-penny-ish ale.
Burton ale at that. It may end up getting spiced, or fruited.
Any input? If I get good extraction this should be OVERKILL. :)
I wonder if I'll have to pitch champ. later to deal with all the
fermentables. Hope it don't stall! Some know what a bother that
can be! (so how's it doing now norm?)
RE: The name. My girlfriend and I purchased a purple lava lamp, which
she adores. Endless hours of fascination. I figured that after drinkin
this concoction- after it's PROPERLY AGED>>>> one will probably end up
feeling like that flowing purple goo in the lamp. A kinda warm feeling
all over!
As for the name of the lava lamp itself- you can figure that out!
Just felt like sharing. I'm psyched. the yeast is pooched, and dropping
into a starter today. Just got the scottish ale yeast too, can't
wait to use that! Thur night, or friday day. My house will be warm!
Brew on ya'll John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P@cc.usu.edu
------------------------------
Date: 08 Dec 1993 20:05:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Delano Dugarm 36478 <ADUGARM@worldbank.org>
Subject: Hop Teas and Dry Hopping ~#
I am brewing a hoppy pale ale, something like Sierra Nevada's
Celebration ale. I started with a 1065 O.G. wort, and hopped as
follows:
1 oz Centennial (9.6%) 60 min.
1 oz Mt. Hood (?%) 60 min.
1 oz Cascades (5.4%) 10 min.
I fermented with WYeast American Ale, of course, keeping the
temperature mostly below 65. The question I have is how to
finish it. The last time I made this I dry hopped with an ounce
of Cascades for a week before bottling, and it turned out quite
well. My only complaint was that it didn't have the _depth_ of
hop taste that Celebration has. I'm leaning towards dry hopping
again, but noted a suggestion that you steep hops in a hot water
and add this tea at bottling time for greater flavor and aroma.
Any suggestions on this issue would be greatly appreciated.
Delano DuGarm
adugarm@worldbank.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 15:33:44 EST
From: mrg@mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mrgarti@eng.xyplex.com)
Subject: Bulk Lab Equipment / Boston Area
I am planning on buying some pipettes and test tubes from
Whatman LabSales. I'm looking for some other Boston brewers
who might be interested in splitting the ridiculous quantity
with me. 1 box test tubes = 1000 tubes. 1 box pippetts =
6 pippettes.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 13:26:28 PST
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP@cts27.comp.pge.com
Subject: Ice Beer
Just a quick observation and trying to avoid flames, this article on
"Ice Beers" was in last nights paper, it is on the Labatts -vs- any
other commerical brewer who uses "Ice" method.
>"Ice Beer is brewed at temperatures low enough to allow ice crystals
> to form. It is described as rich tasting but continuing the move away
> from the heavy beers"
So, it says right there in print that it is "Rich Tasting". if it wasn't
in print, I for one would not belive it. I guess my fellow HBD'ers just
don't know taste when it hits them. I also question what "they" refer to
as heavy beer? Bud? Heavy beer is not bought, its homebrewed!
Please try this at home, remember, your not professionals, just
Homebrewers!
ELQ1
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1993 13:39:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID@A1GW.GENE.COM>
Subject: Noche Buena - SF Bay Area
SF Bay Area Beerheads -
Last night I saw cases of Noche Buena at the Price Club (Price Costco =>
stupid name change) in Redwood City for about $16/case. I'm looking for
just a six-pack in case anyone comes across one.
- David
(allison2@gene.com)
------------------------------
Date: Wednesday, 8 December 93 16:40:22 CST
From: LLAPV@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: noche buena by any other name...
Howdy,
In HBD 1292, Chris Amley brings up the question of using the same beer name
for different beers. His main concern is that since Noche Buena is brewed
with a different recipe than in the past, it should have a different name.
The fact is, this is an extremely common practice. Sam Adams claims to
vary their Winter Lager every year, and Anchor actually does vary it's
Our Special Ale. Add on that a brewery is going to adjust it's
recipes every once in awhile, especially new ones. Celis Pale Bock is
definitely not the same beer that they first marketed in March of '92; in
fact, it's the 4th version.
I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is.
Happy brewin',
Alan, Austin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 93 16:57 CST
From: "Peter Brauer 312/915-6157" <$W$PR42%LUCCPUA.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Names
I have often wondered, is there any sort of central list of "namebrands"
for homebrews? I have a couple of friends that all homebrew and we all
have names for our beers, I wondered if anyone keeps a master-list.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1293, 12/09/93
*************************************
-------
