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HOMEBREW Digest #1255
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/10/26 00:24:22
HOMEBREW Digest #1255 Tue 26 October 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Late Kettle Hop Additions (npyle)
Yeast nutrients/pitching (Domenick Venezia)
Liquid yeast/Alpha Acid loss/extract OG calculations (korz)
Bulk vs. bottle lagering ("PETER JUST, ANTHROPOLOGY, WILLIAMS COLLEGE")
nuts in brew ("Anthony Johnston")
beer nuts? (Paul Selkirk)
humor/channeling (73410)
More beer drinks (Kevin Schutz)
Growing Hops (Philip Proefrock)
Slow CF chiller (Ari Jarmala)
beer nuts (Chuck Wettergreen)
Stainless Steel Kegs in UK? (AGENT COOPER)
Beer hunting in Belgium: Part 4 (Brasserie la Caracole) ("Phillip Seitz")
Carbonation and Filtration; Mashoffs (George J Fix)
Re: Hot priming, blowoff tube (mcdcup!tellabs.com!don)
Blanche de Bruges Yeast (Ed Hitchcock)
Re: Beer hunting in Belgium (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Scraping hops from the side of my kettle (Tom Goetze)
Yeast ("Anderso_A")
You can't judge a beer by the bottle, but... (ROBERT.URWILER)
BEER COCKTAILS, FAQ Part I (STROUD)
Yeast in Suspense (Joel Birkeland)
Re: Clean it up (mcdcup!tellabs.com!don)
Benjamin Machine Products number. (mcdcup!tellabs.com!don)
Wort Chillers reply (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
Long lag times for liquid yeast. (Fred Waltman)
Steam injection (WESTEMEIER)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 13:29:18 MDT
From: npyle@n33.stortek.com
Subject: Late Kettle Hop Additions
I've been thinking recently about hop additions (all this Hops FAQ stuff has
forced me to think about some of this stuff). I just realized that there is an
inherent advantage to immersion chillers (my old method) over counter-flow
chillers (my current method). Yes, the immersion chiller leaves the cold break
in the kettle but it does something else that I have not seen discussed in this
forum.
The immersion chiller cools the wort and hops fairly quickly from 100C to
around 50C (maybe 10 minutes). The late kettle additions are boiled for a
short time (1-10 minutes) and then within 10 more minutes they are at a
relatively low temperature (50C). Granted, getting the wort down the final
20C to pitching temperature is pretty slow but the volatile hop compounds
which you are trying to retain with late additions are less reactive between
20C and 50C than they are at 100C.
With the counter-flow chiller the wort and hops remain near 100C the entire
time the wort is being chilled. From experience I know the kettle is still
extremely hot 20 minutes after turning off the flame. I would bet that
finishing hops act more like flavoring hops and that flavoring hops act more
like bittering hops with a counter-flow. Can anyone verify these assumptions?
Do you know of any commercial brewers who use immersion chillers (they clearly
have _some_ advantages)? Probably not since immersion chillers are less
efficient and I know of few commercial brewers (even micros) who care a lot
about hop aroma.
I may alter my procedure a little bit to compensate for this. I haven't yet
decided how. Suggestions?
Cheers,
Norm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 12:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Yeast nutrients/pitching
Thanks to Jim *Busch* and Daniel F. McConnell on giving some definitive
and consistent numbers concerning optimal pitching rates, ales at
5-10x10**6 cells/ml, and lagers at 10-15x10**6 cells/ml or more. One thing
that confused me at first and perhaps others was the fact that pitching
rate is defined by the resultant cell density in the batch after pitching.
So what at first may seem to be wildly different numbers between Jim and
Dan's posts are actually the same numbers.
My goal in starting this enquiry was to somehow get my pitching rate into an
acceptable range while NOT being forced to pitch a half gallon or more of
some other wort into a carefully designed recipe. Remember a half gallon is
10% of a 5 gallon batch and such a volume will affect your results. I would
like to do an adequate pitch in about a pint of starter. Also, I wanted
to avoid having to save and pitch yeast slurry from previous batches (Hey,
I want it all).
Generally, I pitch a pint starter (very seriously underpitching) and if I
can get 10 times the pitching rate by using a little YNB (provided the yeast
characteristics remain stable) I figure it's worth it.
If one is not reusing slurry but using a starter what's involved in getting
an adequate lager pitch of 10-15x10**6 cells/ml in a 5 gallon batch?
>Dan asked:
>
> What kind of lag time did he get? I'll bet it was on the order of 10-12
> hours, not bad, but greater than optimum.
With Wyeast Chico Ale strain he got just what Dan expected, 10-12 hrs.
However, with Wyeast London Ale strain he got a 3 hour lag.
Speaking of lag time, how exactly are we determining the end of lag time?
For my own purposes I have defined the EOLT as 2 bubbles/minute from my
airlock, but this may be misleading in either direction. Jim? Dan? fg
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:03 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Liquid yeast/Alpha Acid loss/extract OG calculations
Jerome writes:
>I usually ferment my wort with dry yeast, usually with good and reliable
>results. Periodically, I will use WYeast, particularly when I intend to make
<edited>
>pale ale on Saturday morning. I had gotten a WYeast American Ale packet, and
>burst the inner packet on Thursday evening. Sure enough, by noon on Saturday
>it was nice and puffy. My 1043 wort was at 70F, and all was well with the
>world. So, I sanitize the yeast package in bleach water, rinse it off,
>cut it open, drop liquid into the wort, cap it and swirl it up. I then
>wait for fermentation to begin, but lo! nothing happens and keeps on not
>happening until Monday morning.
Many dry yeast users have reported problems like this when switching to
liquid yeasts. There are two factors, both which affect lag time, that
are significantly different between dry and liquid yeasts: 1) aeration and
2) cell count. 1. Before drying, the yeast destined for the drier are given
lots and lots of oxygen, so that after rehydration, even if there is a
shortage of oxygen in your wort, the dry yeast cope with this dilemma better.
2. There are many orders of magnitude more yeast in 7gms of dry yeast than
in 1.75 floz of liquid yeast. You can get by without a starter, but your
luck diminishes as the yeast package gets older since the %viable goes down.
A starter is recommended, but not manditory, for liquid yeast. I've had
good success with pitching right from the Wyeast package, but I was prepared
for a 48- to 72-hour lag time. It's a real test of your sanitation! More
recently (in the last 2-3 years), I've been using starters and get lag times
as short as 12 hours, but sometimes it still takes 24 hours even with a starter.
>Should I just admit abject failure and use dry yeasts exclusively? By
>extension, will I make a beer with "666" tatooed on its forehead if I reuse
>the slurry from a batch fermented with dry yeast?
Recent data suggests that the bacterial and wild yeast counts of dry yeasts
have gone down considerably from 5 years ago. Dry yeasts that I've had
success with are Nottingham and Coopers and have heard other brewer's (who's
opinions I highly respect) have success with the new strain of Red Star Ale,
Windsor and Pasteur Champagne. I don't think you should fear repitching
from dry yeast slurry, but as always, be careful.
*************************
t writes:
>Glen Anderson asks:
>
>>Would anyone know what percent of Alpha Acid has been lost in the
>>1992 crop, assuming they were stored under optimum conditions? I just
>>purchased about a pound and would like to adjust my recipes.
There are a great many factors that affect AA loss: temperature, oxygen,
packaging material, hop variety and type (pellets, plugs, whole).
Assuming optimum conditions (freezer temperatures, N2- or CO2-purged
packaging, oxygen-barrier packaging), I would say that perhaps 95% or
more AA would be retained. However, optimal conditions are rarely
kept and retailers have only recently started to use oxygen-barrier
packaging, but virtually no one purges their packages with inert gasses.
Note that HDPE, the most common plastic used for packaging, is not
oxygen-barrier. A good rule of thumb is "if you can smell the hops,
it's not oxygen-barrier packaging."
Regarding hop variety variations, here's a bit of data (thanks to Ralph^2
at Hopunion, USA):
variety storagabilty
(% of AA remaining
after 6 months storage
at 20 degrees C)
CASCADE 48-52
CENTENNIAL 60-65
CHINOOK 65-70
CLUSTER 80-85
CRYSTAL unavailable
EROICA 55-65
FUGGLE 60-65
GALENA 75-80
HALLERTAUER 52-58
HERSBRUCKER (US) 55-65
HERSBRUCKER (HALLERTAU) 55-65
LIBERTY 35-55
MOUNT HOOD 50-60
NORTHERN BREWER (DOMSTC)70-85
NORTHERN BREWER (HALLRT)70-80
NUGGET 70-80
PERLE 80-85
SAAZ (CZECH) 45-55
SPALT (US) 45-55
SPALT (GERMAN) 50-60
STRISSELSPALT 60-70
TETTNANGER (US) 55-60
TETTNANGER (GERMAN) 55-60
WILLAMETTE 60-65
Note that 20C is about 68F, so we're talking about room temperature.
Don't forget that this is just a measure of Alpha Acid retention and
not the essential oils. The highly volatile aromatics of hops are much
more fragile. My experience with the CO2-purged, 3mil Oxygen-harrier
packaging I use, has shown that this method of storage (even at 40F)
tends to retain the wonderful hop aromatics, whereas my old method
of storage, Saran Wrap (tm) and foil in the freezer doesn't work as
well. Also, regarding the type, pellets tend to retain more of everything
(AA and aromatics) than plugs, which retain more of everything than whole.
It's all a matter of exposed surface area.
>If I understand things right, essentially zero. No adjustments should be
>necessary. Mark Garetz (our local Hop Expert) may wish to comment.
I would really rather that people not reinforce Mark's self-proclaimed
expertise -- what I posted before is really true: Mark Garetz only started
brewing about two years ago. I've been brewing for over 8 years and reading
about brewing even longer and continue to discourage people from calling me
an "expert." Perhaps in 30 more years. I've experienced a lot over the
years and read a lot too and have found tons of inconsistency in brewing
literature. No one can become a brewing expert from a book -- there's too
much conflicting data out there!
***********************************
Mike writes:
>My equation is OG = 1 + #pounds of stuff / #gallons of wort * .042 for
>dry extract, and
>
> OG = 1 + #pounds of stuff / #gallons of wort * .036
>
>for liquid extract.
I've found that various brands of DME are more consistently in the 42 points
range, but that syrups vary from 35 points to almost 40 (for Northwestern).
Also, crystal malts give me extracts in the mid to high 20's, but note that
tbe Belgian and English crystal malts are 2-row, whereas domestic are 6-row
and give quite a bit less extract. I have some limited data on roasted malts
but have yet to extract (no pun intended) useful data out of them. Perhaps
I can get a copy of the Karamarkar algorithm ;^).
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 15:51:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "PETER JUST, ANTHROPOLOGY, WILLIAMS COLLEGE" <Peter.Just@williams.edu>
Subject: Bulk vs. bottle lagering
With the onset of cooler weather I'm beginning to contemplate brewing
lager for the first time. My guides to this point have been books by
Byron Burch and Dave Miller. Burch seems to favor lagering in bulk,
Miller seems to think it's alright to do it after priming and bottling.
Is there a consensus on the advantages and disadvantages of the two
methods?
Peter Just internet: peter.just@williams.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:51:23 CDT
From: "Anthony Johnston" <anthony@chemsun.chem.umn.edu>
Subject: nuts in brew
Paul Selkirk asked:
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 16:10:22 -0400
From: paul@ftp.com (Paul Selkirk)
Subject: beer nuts?
The other day, while roasting some hickory nuts from my neighbor's
tree, I got to wondering if anyone ever brewed with nuts.
Would you mash the nuts (lots of starch in there), or "dry-nut" a
more conventional beer?
What kind of nuts would be good? The walnut/pecan/hickory family all
taste like they've got a lot of tannins, so they might not be
appropriate. Maybe almonds, filberts, brazil nuts... (I can see it
now - Rainforest Crunch Beer!)
I've been reading the HBD since the beginning of the year, plus most
of last year's back issues, and I've seen some...unusual...ideas, but
I don't recall anything of this sort. What say ye?
paul
Well I have tried using nuts before in a homebrew, and in my case the
results weren'r worth it. In the first place, I was using black
walnuts, which are probably one of the hardest nuts to shell. I mashed
them in (approx 4-6 ounces) with some DMS (diastatic malt syrup) and
proceeded to incorporate the mixture into a sweet stout, which I think
is OK, but the walnut aroma/flavor comes across more as a fault than a
useful addition. I think that this area deserves more research.
Tony Johnston
Chemist, Homebrewer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:12:00 EDT
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc@swlvx2.msd.ray.com
Subject: humor/channeling
From: dspalme@mke.ab.com [signature file]
> " I have found that it is much easier to fake an
> orgasm than to pretend to like basketball. "
May you never have to do either.
From: lyons%adc1@swlvx2.msd.ray.com
> I'm not clear if this implies...finding the right man?
Feeling a little insecure today?
> little to do with the subject of beer and is offensive to some folk.
Oh, lighten up! It's humor, laugh.
***************
From: EZIMMERM@UWYO.EDU
> p.s. please forgive the bad pun, but I couldn't resist this one...
Forgive what? All you did was pun at the one yard line...
***************
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
> That and the fact that once I figured out how to operate the Maltmill,
> it really didn't do a good job of ringing-out my wet laundry like I
> thought it would.
> [snip]
> After all, this is HBD not late night cable tv.
Really!???
***************
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
> ...due to a fluid mechanics phenomenon called "channeling"
Which is what?
> ...it has been mentioned on the HBD that the hose has a tendancy to
> kink where it comes out of the [Phil's] Phalse Bottom. Replacing this
> with an elbow seems to fix the problem.
I saw a Phalse Bottom at my local supplier's recently which came with
an elbow. Phil must have been listening.
Carl
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 13:03:12 MDT
From: Kevin Schutz <kschutz@atmel.com>
Subject: More beer drinks
Assuming that any type of beer "drink" qualifies, I almost completely forgot
about some beer shake recipes. I just remembered them after reading about
the Belgian beer drinks.
The first place I ran across beer shakes was at the Wildnerness Pub in Boulder,
CO. They serve a Porter (Boulder) shake. Pretty tasty. Since that time, I've
experimented with several varieties of porter shakes (using Boulder Porter,
Black Hook, or homebrew), several Linderman's (sp?) for fruit flavors and even
an Anchor Steam shake. Not bad!
The basic recipe for home use is to get some vanilla ice cream, beer (I'd
recommend some beer that has a strong character so that the flavor will come
through), milk (optional), and a blender. Blend to taste.
I'd recommend beer shakes to anyone unless they have a problem with lactic acid
or alcohol.
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 20:02:04 EDT
From: Philip Proefrock <PSPROEFR@MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Growing Hops
I am interested in growing my own hops for use in my homebrew. (I don't
plan to use this exclusively, but it would be nice to have hops I had
grown in the beer that I brew. I expect I would only use the homegrown
hops for one part of the process, say boiling, and will continue to
buy other varieties for flavor/aroma.) Does anyone else do this? Can
you provide some pointers, suggestions as to where I can find seedlings
or seeds, etc.? What varieties will grow best in the midwest?o I hope
to get starters going indoors this fall, so that I can get them growing
this coming spring.
Thanks in Advance,
Philip Proefrock
psproefr@miamiu.muohio.edu
'More Attitude Than Talent'
Architecture 3+ Graduate Program, Miami University, Oxford, Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 01:09:00 +0300
From: ari.jarmala@mpoli.fi (Ari Jarmala)
Subject: Slow CF chiller
drose@husc.harvard.edu writes about slow CF wort chillers:
HO>I bought 50ft of garden hose (a lot
HO>cheaper than tygon tubing), 50 ft of 1/4" copper tubing, and built
HO>a 40 ft chiller (10 feet of the hose going to the connecting lines).
1/4" tube is very thin. Try larger diameter tube. The gain:
* the cross section area of the tube is the _square_ of the
diameter
* the flow is the cross section area times the speed of wort in the tube
* the resistance to flow is reduced by increasing diameters =>
faster flow
Increase the diameter by a factor of 2 and you get about 6 to 8
times faster volume flow. Maintain the length of the chiller.
The other possibility is to increase the driving force: increase
the height difference.
- Ari J{rm{l{
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 11:09:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen@aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: beer nuts
In HBD #1252 Paul Selkirk asked:
PS> Would you mash the nuts (lots of starch in there), or "dry-nut" a
> more conventional beer?
PS> What kind of nuts would be good? The walnut/pecan/hickory family
> all taste like they've got a lot of tannins, so they might not be
> appropriate. Maybe almonds, filberts, brazil nuts... (I can see it
> now - Rainforest Crunch Beer!)
Yes, they do have lots of starch, but also lots of oil. You risk the
possibility of having a "headless" beer. Hey, Euell Gibbons used to make
biscuits from acorn flour, why not give it a try?
Chuck
* RM 1.2 00946 *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 13:21 BST
From: AGENT COOPER <CENSWM@vaxa.hw.ac.uk>
Subject: Stainless Steel Kegs in UK?
I need your help!
I want to make a stainless steel brewing set up. I have read about how you
stateside folks, get stainless kegs and cut them up. Yeah great I would like to
do that but you dont seem to get stainless steel kegs here! they are all alloy.
Which is no use.
Does anyone know IF you can get stainless steel kegs in the UK? and if not are
there any UK people who can suggest a cheap source of stainless brew kettles
etc?
I use a plastic brewheat thingy and I think its crap, I want to brew bigger
batches and I want to use gas to heat, cos I like flames!
Please help!
Stuart
censwm@uk.ac.hw.clust Edinburgh, Scotland
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 08:46:25 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644@psilink.com>
Subject: Beer hunting in Belgium: Part 4 (Brasserie la Caracole)
Beer Hunting in Belgium: Part 4 of 7
Brasserie La Caracole, Namur
(by Phil Seitz)
In Belgium it is possible to run very small scale commercial
brewing operations, and there are breweries that only sell a few
hundred bottles a year. Obviously the brewers in this situation
don't make their living this way, but in some cases they gain
valuable experience toward opening larger operations.
One very small operation is the Brasserie La Caracole, which
is owned by three partners--the minimum allowable when forming a
partnership in Belgium. One of the partners owns a well-known
local specialty beer store, La Cave de Wallonie, which serves as the
primary outlet for the brewery's products.
Since I have previously reported on this 4 hl garage brewery
in HBD I will not review the entirety of their operations.
However, my return visit did give us a chance to cover some new
ground, some of which will be of particular interest to small-
scale commercial brewers:
Equipment: The brewery uses a converted steam-jacketed
Army-surplus soup kettle. The jacket and inner kettle were
separated, with the interior becoming their mash tun and kettle,
and the exterior jacket becoming their lauter tun. Water is
heated using a European-type flash hot water heater, and is added
to the lauter tun just the way we do it--one dipper at a time.
The fermenters are located in individual closets, which are
heated when necessary and protected by UV lamps.
Yeast: Yeast is obtained fresh from a yeast bank at
Louvain-La-Neuve, and the same yeast is used for their white,
amber, and dark beers. The yeast comes in a 30 liter sealed
container, with a yeast count of 5 million cells per centiliter.
Like most breweries this one has a device for cooling and
oxygenating its wort. However, they've been having a problem
with generation of too many yeast cells during fermentation,
making it difficult to get a clear beer. They have therefore
decided to temporarily do without oxygenation to see if this will
reduce the respiration phase and the resultant increased cell
count from reproduction.
Malt: The brewers here have lots of good things to say about the
DeWolf-Cosyns malts, which are also available here in the U.S.
Not only do they feel these are the best available in Belgium,
but they also have fewer business problems with this maltings.
When dealing with other sources they report constant problems
receiving the wrong thing. In addition, they report that while
different maltings produce the same lines of malts, if you order
the same thing (say, caravienne) from each source you're going to
get somewhat different products. Apparently there are no strict
definitions regarding what a malt should be if its called by a
particular name. Of course, this would also discourage brewers
from switching malt suppliers once they've gotten used to
something.
The malts from the Deskamps also got a favorable mention.
They have at least one maltings, in Gembloux.
Spices: The brewery uses two different types of orange peel.
Bitter orange is used for their white beer, and sweet orange for
their strong ales. The former is a greenish-gray color, quite
bitter in flavor, and provides very little orange flavor in the
beer--only a mellow form of bitterness is imparted. Bitter
orange is used at a rate of 0.5 grams per liter of finished beer.
The sweet orange provides a more conventional orange flavor,
and is used in quantities ranging from 0.5 grams/liter to double
that or even more. Both types of peel are purchased in 50 kg
sacks.
Training: The brewer (one of the three partners) received a 6
year brewing degree from Louvain-La-Neuve. The first four years
focus on chemistry and biology, and the last two specifically in
brewing. Presumably this is roughly equivalent to a B.S. and an
M.A. I can't recall now what his day-job was (the brewery
operates only on weekends), but I believe it dealt with
commercial production of yeast for food products.
Economics: The brewery hopes to move to larger quarters,
preferably a 20 hl facility, and is slowly collecting equipment
and experience. At the moment it is loosing 60,000 Belgian
francs a month, or about $1,800. They appear to see this as a
cost to be paid during their education, which is fine as long as
they can afford it.
Use of fresh yeast for each batch adds 8 francs (about
$0.25) to the price of each 75 cl bottle, but at present the
brewery has no yeast-propagation facilities. They must also use
new bottles (as opposed to returnables, which are cheaper)
because they don't have space for bottle cleaning. For that
matter, they don't have electricity or plumbing either, and run a
tube down the street to a sewer when they're brewing.
While the brewery sells at least 50% of its beer through La Cave de
Wallonie, it also sells a substantial portion through what might be
called subscription. In Belgium there are many fraternal and business
organizations holding meetings throughout the year, and it is a common
practice to have a brewery prepare a batch of beer with special labels
for the occasion. (Some American wineries also provide this service.)
It can be surprising how much beer can be sold this way, and for a
small brewery the arrangement is ideal--they know how much beer they
need to brew, and they don't have to worry about distribution. Someone
shows up with a truck, takes several dozen cases, hands over a check,
and the thing is done. In a business where cultivating and supplying
retail outlets can be a major chore, the savings in effort is
substantial. In addition, many of these organizations see it as a
matter of pride to present unusual or high quality beers, and actually
seek out smaller breweries to work with. Regional pride plays a strong
role as well.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 08:59:02 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Carbonation and Filtration; Mashoffs
Dave in HBD#1252 asks:
>While reading the Fix'es Vienna book last night, I came across the sections
>on filtration and carbonation, and I suddenly got confused as to which
>order they should occur in.
> 1. carbonate then filter
> 2. or filter then carbonate
>It seems some of the big boys filter and then pump into a conditioning tank
>to carbonate, so this would be #2. Other breweries, Anchor for one, end
>secondary fermentation with the beer naturally carbonated, and filter
>afterwards.
It is difficult to properly filter fully carbonated beer. Thus option #2
typically gives the best results. I use 5 gal. kegs for storage, and try
to adjust the pressure so that the CO2 content of the beer is 1.6-1.8 vols.
(i.e., liters per liter). This will not filter as well as totally flat beer,
but the differences are not great. After filtration, the CO2 level is increased
to the desired level (2.2-2.4 vols. for ale and 2.5-2.6 vols. for lager) by
direct CO2 injection.
I always use to use a mashoff at 168F for each of my brews. Last year when
visiting Anchor I noticed that they did not mash off. I asked Mark Carpenter
about this and he resonded "Who needs it". Since then I have been working
with a final temperature of 158F, and have seen no negative effects. There
has been no major change in yields, and I still get a fast run off (which I
prefer). I am using propane burners, and with this set up I find I can get a
tighter control of wort color by not mashing off. In short, I think Chris has
got this one right.
-George Fix
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:43:22 CDT
From: hplabs!mcdcup!tellabs.com!don
Subject: Re: Hot priming, blowoff tube
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 11:29:15 PDT
> From: Mark_Davis.osbu_south@xerox.com
> Subject: Re: hot priming
>
>
> Bart asks:
> >I've always thought that this step is probably not
>necessary since the
> >thermal mass of 1 pint of 200F sugar water is nothing
>compared with 5
> >gallons @ 70F. So what if I zap a few yeast cells on the
>initial contact ?
> >They don't have very good lawyers anyway.
> >
> >I've never had the guts to actually risk a batch with this
>hot combination
> >experiment. Has anyone else done this successfully ? I'd like
>to> >simplify my process.
I`ve done this for a lot of batches and it works out just fine.
> ----------------------------->
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 14:13:34 CST
> From: "Andrew B. Deliyannides" <Andrew.B.Deliyannides.1@nd.edu>
> Subject:
>
> Anyone have any good ideas on how to blowoff those kraeusen
>chunkies from
> a 5 gal carboy without compromising sanitation? I've heard
>ghost stories
> about little critters creeping up unsealed blowoff tubes,
>so I've tried
> attaching a fermentation lock at the end of a really long
>blowoff tube. A
> clumsy solution: the foam still manages to percolate through
>the lock,
> sometimes clogging and blowing off the lid. It's rather
>comical. The only
> other makeshift idea I have is to simply submerge the end
>of the blowoff
> tube in a bucket of chlorox solution. Sure, you'd have to
>change the
> solution every once in a while once it got polluted, but at
>least none of
> those critters would crawl up the tube. Or is this much ado
>about nothing?
> Is the kraeusen itself protection enough from critters?
> ABD
>
> ------------------------------
This is exactly what I do. Take a bucket and fill it
1/4 - 1/2 full and submerge the end of the 1" tube in
the water. Give it a shot of bleach to prevent any stuff
from growing in there. Actually a tsp would be more than
enough. I've yet to ever get an infection from using this
method. I've never had to change the solution... well maybe
once or twice when I've used dry yeast.
don
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 11:49:52 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH@ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Blanche de Bruges Yeast
I got a culture going from the dregs of a bottle of Blanche de Bruges.
Does anyone know whether this is their fermenting yeast, whether it is a
lager bottling yeast, and/or whether there is any hope of there being
lactobacilus still in there? Anyone?
____________
Ed Hitchcock ech@ac.dal.ca | "I'm not from outer space. I'm from
Anatomy & Neurobiology | Iowa. I just work in outer space."
Dalhousie University, Halifax | - James T. Kirk
[Eschew racism. Drink beer from all nations]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 11:34:32 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Beer hunting in Belgium
For those of us reading this fine report who are wondering about the
prices quoted: Currently, the Belgian franc is trading at about 35 to
the dollar.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:48:06 -0700
From: goetze@cats.ucsc.edu (Tom Goetze)
Subject: Scraping hops from the side of my kettle
As I was brewing my Holiday Happiness (extract/speciality/spices) last
night, a question about my procedure came to me. Sometimes after
adding the hops to the boil, a big head of foam forms on top of the boil
which pushes much of the hop pellets up and against the side of my
kettle. So when the foam subsides (which it actually doesn't always do)
it appears most of hop pellet gunk is stuck to the side of my kettle.
So here is my question: Should I bother scaping the hops off the side
of my kettle or have all the bittering oils already made their way into
the boil?
It has been my practice to scape them off in the past, but I was
just curious if I actually needed to put down my homebrew to scape the
hops off. It sure could save me a couple of minutes drinking time.
Thanks in advance,
tom
------------------------------
Date: 22 Oct 93 12:37:00 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A@hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Yeast
Message Creation Date was at 22-OCT-1993 12:37:00
Greetings,
I've a couple of questions dealing with the propagation
of yeast as well as yeast washing after fermenting a batch.
I've had generally good success in these areas in the past,
but now I'm beginning to wonder about the basic processes
and inherent assumptions. If anyone can shed some light on
the following issues, I'd greatly appreciate it.
1. Mutations while propagating yeast: If I'm attempting
to propagate the yeast for a Scotch Ale (or other high OG
beer) from a slant, it will require many cycles of
propagation to get the required volume of yeast slurry. I
read how commercial breweries can re-use a given batch of
yeast from 5-10 times before replacing. Well, I'm doing at
least 5 cycles of yeast propagation for my high-gravity
beers. Am I running a risk of introducing a mutant strain
into my yeast? Am I running the the risk that, even though
I have a lot of yeast, it may have reached the point of
"being tired"? Aside from ingratiating myself with a
commercial brewer who will give me quarts of yeast on
demand, how do I assure that I have enough volume of a
"healthy" yeast?
2. Washing yeast: In an attempt to solve Question #1, I
have been experimenting with washing my yeast from one batch
to use in a second. I have tried taking yeast from both my
primary and then my secondary fermentor. The primary has
more junk to remove (i.e. vegetable materials & cold break
[I don't rack the beer off the boil pot into the carboy - I
jsut strain the COOL wort into the carboy & then rack to a
secondary after about a week.], but it also has more yeast
than the secondary carboy. Because of this, I've done more
testing with the primary carboy's yeast. I've been using a
process I read about on HBD a year ago which uses sterile
water and (3) 1-quart mason jars. What I want to know is,
after I have agitated my sterile water, yeast, trub mixture
in a mason jar, how long will the yeast remain in suspension
before precipitating out of solution? As I understand it,
the trub should fall out first before the yeast does.
However, the longer you wait, the more clearly a separation
between liquid and solids exists. Is there a general rule
of thumb for the optimum time at which to decant the yeast
off the trub?
My apologies for rambling so long. Any help in
shedding light on these issues would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Andy A
------------------------------
Date: 22 Oct 93 10:13:36-0400
From: ROBERT.URWILER@sprint.sprint.com
Subject: You can't judge a beer by the bottle, but...
I am relatively new to home brewing but have noticed that a majority
of the equipment commercially marketed for the brewer is focused on
the brewing process itself. Although I agree that the beer is absolutely
the most important aspect of this craft, I find it strange that the
final product (a superior brew) is often presented in a sub-standard
package (in my case, scuffed up old Miller Lite bottles with a caps that say
"real beer"). I have seen the labels offered by my local supplier and by
a few of the mail order catalogs... pretty sad...
It seems to me that there would be an excellent market for custom
packaging supplies for the home brewer such as high quality, custom
screen labeled bottles, caps, and quality wooden cases. The same
organizations who make custom screen printed coffee cups could produce these
items at a reasonable cost. I know that I personally would order a couple
gross of high quality bottles with my label(s) in wooden cases given the
opportunity. Any thoughts or suggestions?
"Perception is nine-tenths of the law..." -unknown-
------------------------------
Date: 22 Oct 1993 16:15:20 -0500 (EST)
From: STROUD%GAIA@leia.polaroid.com
Subject: BEER COCKTAILS, FAQ Part I
Subject: BEER DRINKS, FAQ (Part I)
Q0001: When I make a beer cocktail should I use the lightest beer possible,
like a Coors light?
A0001: Of course not. If you want to add as little flavor as possible to your
drink, you should use water. Light American lagers are best reserved for
rinsing out carboys or for playing BeerHunter.
Q0002: What style of beer is best used then?
A0002: Something dark, with a full aromatic palate and plenty of alcohol.
Several months of intensive research and taste testing by some of Beantown's
more adventurous beer cognoscenti have determined that the best beers to use in
cocktails are those in which mastication of the grains by virgins is a key step
in the brewing process.
Q0003: Do beers made that process really, uh, exist?
A0003: What, have you been hiding under a rock? Do I have to spell it out for
you? X-I-N-G-U!
Q0004: Can you give me an example of a Xingu cocktail?
A0004: Here's one for beginners:
XING-UP (Xingu shandy)
Pour equal amounts of Xingu and 7-up over cracked ice. Shake well, pour into a
tall frosted glass, add a twist of citrus (lemon, lime, or orange), and insert
aswizzle stick.
Q0005: That's a nice enough recipe, but don't you have anything a little, uh,
more exotic?
A0005: Certainly. Here's one that not only goes great with nachoes, but also
looks great:
BLACK BANANA (Xingu Daiquiri)
Pour 6 oz. of Xingu into a blender.
Add:
1 oz rum
1 ripe, peeled banana (for those authentic tropical esters)
3 oz lime juice
10 ice cubes
Blend until very smooth
Serve in a cocktail glass (paper umbrella optional).
Q0006: Can I eat meals with beer cocktails?
A0006: Don't be a twit. Anybody who knows anything about food will tell you
that only wine is drunk with meals; cocktails are reserved for finger food like
stuffed mushrooms and cocktail weiners. Here is a recipe for a beer drink that
goes great with caviar:
XINGU PIRANHA (Wandamatic)
Pour 16oz of Xingu into a blender.
Add:
6 oz orange juice (fresh squeezed if possible)
dash of tabasco
6-8 ice cubes
Blend on medium speed to crack the ice.
Drop in one small tropical fish (your choice of species)
Blend until smooth. Pour into a chilled glass, insert a straw, and garnish
with a cherry and an orange slice (paper umbrella mandatory).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 18:31:31 MST
From: birkelan@adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: Yeast in Suspense
I have the following question about yeast in suspension in my beer:
At a given time during fermentation, what proportion of yeast cells
are in suspension compared to those which are resting on the bottom of the
fermenter? Further, are the cells that have settled out dormant and the
ones in suspension active, in some sense?
This is important when pitching starter cultures and when bottling.
When pitching my starter, should I swirl it around to kick up the
yeast cells that have settled out? When bottling beer that has been
in the secondary for a long time, should I rouse the yeast also, or
will the individuals remaining in suspension be enough to take care of
bottle conditioning?
TIA for any responses.
- ---
Joel Birkeland
Motorola SPS
birkelan@adtaz.sps.mot.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 11:14:26 CDT
From: hplabs!mcdcup!tellabs.com!don
Subject: Re: Clean it up
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 16:06:09 EDT
> From: lyons%adc1@swlvx2.msd.ray.com
> Subject: Clean it up
>
> > " I have found that it is much easier to fake an
> > orgasm than to pretend to like basketball. "
>
> I'm not clear if this implies that someone has a problem with
> basketball or with finding the right man? It may have appeared
> cute the first time it was posted, but please keep in mind that
> this type of material has little to do with the subject of beer
> and is offensive to some folk. I have also been guilty of making
> crude remarks, but have learned that a public forum is not proper
> place. Please clean it up.
>
> Chris
I still find it pretty cute... :-)
There is more to life than just brewing beer...
Lighten up a bit huh...
don
Uh oh... now I've done it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 10:55:57 CDT
From: hplabs!mcdcup!tellabs.com!don
Subject: Benjamin Machine Products number.
I had several requests to email the number
for this company so I figure there must be
sufficiant interest to post it. Their number
is: 209-523-8874
For anyone else who did not follow the thread, this
was about counter pressure bottle fillers and what
types were available.
don
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 10:41:22 EDT
From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <wisler_scott@ae.ge.com>
Subject: Wort Chillers reply
In HBD 1253, Greg askes abous a wort chiller design:
>how effective would a 30 foot length of 3/8" diameter, coiled copper
>tubing, be in a 2 foot long, 4" inside diameter, PVC pipe?
Very interesting question and design idea. It is also a very difficult
question to answer quantatively, because the heat transfer coefficient,
h, is difficult to estimate without emperical data. h depends on the
geometry, material properties, and fluid dynamics of the system.
I would say that the PVC chiller would be less effective than the
in-garden-hose variety for two reasons: First the flow may
predominately go up the center of the PVC instead of over the copper
coils. You can get around this by fitting another PVC tube of say 2" dia,
sealed with end caps, inside the copper coil as a center plug (as we say
in the aircraft engine business). The second reason is that the cooling
flow would be across the copper pipe, rather than along it with the
garden-hose variety. In the cross-flow case, the cooling water will flow
(relatively) smoothly over the front half of the copper pipe
cross-section. On the back side, there is a region of seperated flow,
or recirculation. The heat transfer coefficient drops off in this
recirculation region on the back side of the copper tubing. Therefore
less of the copper tubing area is useful for heat transfer.
But this probably doesen't answer the really important question: Will
it work for me? At the .2 gallon-per-min (gpm) flow rate many CF
chillers have, I don't think you'll have a problem. (I think 25 min per 5
gal is about what I've read here for no pump-assist) I know of a
pump-assisted 1.0 gpm 30' 3/8 copper-in-garden-hose CF chiller that works
fine. So if 30' of 3/8" CF has at least 5x in extra cooling capability,
and you don't pump out, I don't see any problem with your idea.
In fact, I think its a pretty darn good one if you are brewing outside
and pipe your wort into the basement. Mount that on the basement wall
and you don't have to worry about hauling it around, setting it set up
or it being in the way. I'd encourage you to make it at tell us how it
works...
Keep up the designing !
scott
BTW, for those of you who want credentials, I have a Bachelors and
(will) have Masters (just as soon as I finish my thesis) in
Aerodynamics. I have special interests in aerothermodynamics and
aeroacoustics.
Scott Wisler
swisler@c0431.ae.ge.com
GE Aircraft Engines
Cincinnati, OH
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 11:04:37 PDT
From: waltman@netcom.com (Fred Waltman)
Subject: Long lag times for liquid yeast.
Re: The discussion of long lag times with liquid yeast.
My first batch of homebrew was from a Brewtek Kit from Brewers Resource (highly
recommended, BTW, for those starting out) and it came with Wyeast liquid. I
followed all of the instructions, pitched the yeast packet directly (no starter,
of course -- I didn't know what one was), waited a day AND NOTHING HAPPENED!
I was heartbroken. "I've killed my beer", I sobbed on my girlfriends shoulder.
Here I was, all fired up to make beer and I couldn't even follow a receipe
right. Of course, the next morning, when I woke up, things were fermenting along
merrily and the beer turned out great. I must of sat and watched the airlock
bubble for an hour. Anybody who came by was forced to watch as well.
Fred Waltman
waltman@netcom.com
- --
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 18:30:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: WESTEMEIER@delphi.com
Subject: Steam injection
I recently watched a fellow homebrewer use what I consider an extremely
clever gadget. He had an ordinary household pressure cooker that he
modified to run a steam line out through a ball valve. By simply injecting
live, low pressure steam into the bottom of his picnic cooler mash tun while
stirring the mash, he was able to raise the temperature to the desired point
very quickly. He also used the steam to heat his sparge water in the same
way. It all seemed so simple and logical that I wondered why I hadn't seen
it mentioned before.
Has anyone experimented with this type of setup? What were the pros and
cons?
Ed Westemeier
Cincinnati, Ohio
westemeier@delphi.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1255, 10/26/93
*************************************
-------
