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HOMEBREW Digest #1270
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/11/12 13:00:59
HOMEBREW Digest #1270 Fri 12 November 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
artifical bubbles (Paul Boor)
AHA email address? (Chuck Coronella)
Black and Tan ("Stephen Schember")
SNPA hops/Books/Lawsuit! (korz)
boiled wort/water ratio (brian)
Brewpot questions / I are a college student! (John Glaser)
Sake (John Robinson)
A new twist in chiller design (Geoffrey Burd)
Chillers (Jack Schmidling)
RE: Nasty Brews (Part 2) ("/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/")
Burners (Bob_McIlvaine)
native beer (RONALD DWELLE)
Keg Insulation (Bob_McIlvaine)
lousy hop rates in extract brewing (Chris Pencis)
Brewpubs in Munich (tconklin)
Brew-pub, what's involved... (Dave Bernardi)
Isinglass, Old British Beers (Geoff Cooper)
Pilsner Urquell (Dave Justice)
Re: inadvertent lambic, black & tan (Jeff Benjamin)
Beer labels. (mike.keller)
Re: Adding spices to beer (Drew Lynch)
CONVERSION OF MALT M (rodney.shupe)
small batch brewing (TODD CARLSON)
Handling hops/Priming lagers/Crabtree effect/Language in the HBD (korz)
Beer Labels ( Doug Lethin)
Dry Hop Bitterness from Beta Acids? (npyle)
Hunting (dweebs) over a baited field (mbarre)
Request (Jack St Clair)
breweriana (David Atkins)
Twist off vs opener only (PGILLMAN)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 14:23:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Boor <PBOOR@BEACH.UTMB.EDU>
Subject: artifical bubbles
In reply to David A. Byars' question about force carbonating, I quote
Schultz and Dooley:
Give it malt, give it hops
It won't matter what you do
It's not naturally carbonated
If it's pumped with C0-2
This is how we always felt, sir
Those big bubbles are for seltzer
Give me Utica, Utica Clu..uh...ub.
(those in upstate New York will know)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 12:44:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Chuck Coronella <coronell@cs.unr.edu>
Subject: AHA email address?
Howdy:
Does anyone have an email address for the American Homebewers Association? I
believe that I've seen posts in days (years) past from the AHA...
Thanks
Chuck Coronella
Assistant Professor of Chemical Engineering
University of Nevada, Reno
coronell@cs.unr.edu
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1993 16:03:32 -0500
From: "Stephen Schember" <stephen_schember@terc.edu>
Subject: Black and Tan
Subject: Time: 3:54 PM
OFFICE MEMO Black and Tan Date: 11/10/93
In regard to recent Black and Tan discussions Yeungling also makes a Black and
Tan frequently served as a "cheapie " draft at bars in the NE, and also sold in
16 Oz cans (?!?). It pretty good stuff on tap, a mix of their own Chesterfield
Ale and Yeungling Porter.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 15:07 CST
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: SNPA hops/Books/Lawsuit!
Aha!!!!
You all looked at me funny when I posted questioning the hop nose of
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, back in January of 1992. I had said that the
SNPA that we got here in the Midwest seemed to have lost it's wonderful
Cascade nose. There was no SNPA available in December of 1991, but then
the stuff we got in January was nothing like the stuff we got back in
November of 1991. Now, Martin writes:
>...I just visited Sierra Nevada a month ago. They do
>not use a hop back or dry hop the Pale Ale. They just put Cascade hops
>in at the end of the boil. They do however dry hop the Bigfoot.
I believe that they did used to use a hopback, but had some trouble with
it so they went to a finishing hop addition as reported by Martin.
And you all thought I was crazy...
*************************
Norm writes:
>Buy "The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing" by Miller.
I feel it's a good book, but still has quite a few errors in it. I recently
re-read Papazian's "The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing," Miller's "The
Complete Handbook of Homebrewing" and Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer." While
reading, I was scribbling my disagreements with the books in the margins and
dog-earing the corners of these suspect pages. The book with the least dog
-eared pages? Papazian's. Miller's and Noonan's were about tied, but had
at least triple the number of suspect pages. I have been meaning to write
a series of posts or maybe an article on these three books and my disagreements
with them, but heck, I barely have time to brew, so it's on the back burner.
My advice is to buy all three, but read them in the order I listed above.
After reading all three and brewing a dozen batches, you will probably
scribble the same notes in the margins that I did.
*************************
Norm writes that he noticed an EasyMasher-like device in the Gadgets and
Equipment Special Issue of Zymurgy.
I noticed this too, but it was long after I had heard about Jack's
EasyMasher. If this was to go to court (ha!), it would probably end
up in Jack's favor. Sorry if I spoiled any Jack-haters' day ;^).
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 13:53:50 PST
From: brian@carbon.cor2.epa.gov
Subject: boiled wort/water ratio
A few nights ago I was brewing up a batch of David Smith's
Porter from the Cat's Meow...a recipe I had made once before
with fine results.
The recipe for 5 gallons calls for adding grains and extract
to 1.5 gallons of water (the amount I used the first time) for
the boil; however, this time I chose to use only 1.25 gallons.
I did this for a couple reasons. First, I have a relatively small
(4 gallon) brewing kettle and thought it would be easier to
control potential boilovers with a smaller quantity of wort...
which turned out to be true. Second, recent batches of mine
have taken several hours to cool (1.5 gallons of hot wort
added to 3.5 gallons of cold water) to pitching temperatures,
which has made me nervous about possible infection. I
thought that adding less hot water to more cold water would
help alleviate this delay, which also turned out to be true as
the mixture was immediately at pitching temperature.
So here's the question. Are there any disadvantages to reducing
the volume of boiled wort? The resulting mixture was noticeably
thicker as I poured it though a strainer into the primary, but
other than having to rinse the hops in a couple extra times, there
were no obvious problems. I did notice, however, that my O.G.
was somewhat lower than the first version, suggesting I left
some good stuff behind in my spent hops.
Any thoughts?
Brian S.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 15:10:42 -0700
From: John Glaser <glaser@analog.ece.arizona.edu>
Subject: Brewpot questions / I are a college student!
I have been brewing about a year now, and have some questions/ideas
about brewpots.
1) I just picked up a enameled steel canning pot (8 gal.), but
it has a few chips in it, maybe about 1-2 square inches
worth of exposed metal. Will this be a worse problem than
that created by using 3 gal. boils in my smaller pot. Is
there anything I can do to cover the chips? (for example,
using hi-temp enamel like they sell for repairing outdoor BBQ
grills and such).
2) Has anyone ever considered electroplating the inside of a
steel or aluminum pot with copper, to allow its use as a
boiling pot. Is it too expensive, too difficult, etc., or
could it work? What about anodized aluminum? Anyone know
anything about this?
Anyway, just started reading the digest, and enjoy it thoroughly.
Also, regarding the earlier post about college students, I am one who
brews out of necessity (of course, who doesn't?). Can't afford to buy
decent beer :(, so I am forced to make all the beer I drink. Oooh,
life is so tough!
John Glaser "glaser@analog.ece.arizona.edu"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 12:23:20 -0400 (AST)
From: robinson@orbit.acrso.ns.ca (John Robinson)
Subject: Sake
A short time ago,
>Bryan Kornreich <bkornrei@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Asked about:
>Subject: sake-brewing
>Does anyone know anything about brewing sake? I'd like to try it 'coz I
>love it and I've got a lot of rice. Any recipies? With its high alcohol
>content(15-18%) does it require any sort of distillation? Or are there
>yeast that can pump out that high ethanol content?
Well, if you want to brew sake, my first suggestion would be to buy and
read Sake, USA by Fred Eckhart. Without repeating everything he goes
into there, I will outline a few of more salient points about sake
brewing here:
1) You need a large portion of rice infected with a fungal amalyse.
This stuff is called Koji, and you can either make it yourself or buy
it. I'm using Cold Mountain Koji at the moment, and I got a local shop
to special order it for me. It needs to be refrigerated and should be
used when fairly fresh.
2) You can use a sherry yeast, or some other alcohol tolerant strain,
though the proper sake yeast is available from Wyeast (in liquid form)
and perhaps from others. If you use the Wyeast, Fred suggests that you
NOT pop the nutrient pouch inside. Just clip the package and use as is.
3) In order to make the best sake, you should use highly polished
japanese short grain rice. Without going into all the whys and
wherefores, long grain rice is not as good. Brown rice can be used, but
you probably won't recognize the end product as sake. You can usually
get this rice at an asian food store. You'll also need to steam the
rice, so you should get a rice steamer while you're picking up the rice.
For a small batch of sake, about 2 gallons, the last addition of rice is
5 lbs, so you need a reasonably large steamer if you want to do large
batches.
4) No distillation is required to achieve high concentrations of
ethanol. In sake brewing, the koji turns the rice starch to sugar, and
then the yeast ferments it on the spot. This is similar to adding a
little more sugar to a wine, for example, as the fermentation is
proceeding and has the effect of coaxing the yeast into producing more
and more alcohol.
5) One adds more and more rice to the ferment as time goes on, and Fred
suggest that you mix the freshly steamed rice with the sake using your
hands. Make sure they're clean, and remember this means you'll have to
do the initial fermentation in a plastic bucket.
6) You may want to look into using a press near the end to press the
lees when you rack to the secondary. Be sure to top up your secondary
(1 gallon glass jugs work well for sake secondaries).
7) You will need to pasturize the sake. Fred explains how to do this
and why it is important.
My first batch is well on the way to being completed. When it is done,
maybe I'll post the results.
Hope this helps...
- --
John Robinson Internet: robinson@orbit.acrso.ns.ca
Systems Manager
Atlantic Centre for Remote "Know the enemy and know yourself;
Sensing of the Oceans in a hundred battles you will never
DOD #0069 be in peril." - Sun Tzu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 22:25:05 EST
From: aa680@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoffrey Burd)
Subject: A new twist in chiller design
This past weekend marked the inauguration of my new immersion wort chiller
(after two years of reading the digest and many trips to the archives). It
uses a design which I have not seen mentioned here before which proved to be
very effective. I used 50' of 1/4" I.D. copper tubing wound in a cloverleaf
shape around 3 48 oz. juice cans, like so:
__
/ \
_\__/_
/ \/ \
\__/\__/
There are about 12 full turns, resulting in a coil height of about 8" and a
diameter of about 12" which fits nicely in my pot. Several positive features
of this design are: Structural stability due to the overlapping of the coils
and the fact the the inlet tube goes down the middle. The overlapping of the
tubing spaces the individual coils to permit better circulation and heat
distribution. Higher "tubing density" within the wort due to the tighter
coiling.
The only disadvantages I can see are: harder to clean and harder (though less
necessary) to stir the wort.
When I get a bigger pot, I plan to rebuild it with more tubing--either as
a parallel system with 3 interleaved tubes, or as a 6-lobed design (or both),
but for my current 20 liter pot this works great (roughly 10 minutes to cool
to pitching temperature--if anyone wants more accurate measurements, let me know
and I'll be more scientific with my next batch!)
- --
Geoffrey Burd
aa680@freenet.carleton.ca
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 23:11 CST
From: arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Chillers
>From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
>Subject: Hot Break/Hops in CF Chiller
>I wanted to comment that my boiler has a spigot several inches above the
bottom of the kettle. My CF chiller attaches to the spigot via a
flare fitting. Twelve to fifteen minutes after the boil is concluded, I
begin runoff through the heat exchanger. By this time, hops and hot break
have settled below the level of the spigot and are not drawn into the runoff.
The price paid is the loss of a few quarts bitter wort: this can be reclaimed
and canned for use as starters if one is so inclined.
The price paid in this discussion is to give up one of the few "unarguable"
advantages to the CF chiller. I conceded that a CF chill is propably faster
than an immersion chiller but if you sit around and wait for the hot break to
settle, you have lost that advantage. And just for the record, several
inches in my 16 gal kettle is several gallons but the easymasher sits on the
bottom and less than an inch is left behind.
The fact is that if it is chilled with an immersion chller, the hot/cold
break will settle to below this level and be much more dense than if settled
hot. The trub stays put and only that immediately surrounding the screen get
drawn out and this can be discarded as it is only the first few ounces.
>From: gummitch@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Wort Chillers, Redux
>Without trying to quote from Jack's posting responding to my posting...
You really should to get the proper intent sorted out.
>Jack, I know the difference between hot and cold breaks -- they happen
under different circumstances.
I never suggested that you don't know the difference, I suggested that from
my understanding of what you are doing, the two could become combined in the
end product.
> I leave my hot break behind in the kettle because at the end of the boil I
create a whirlpool... and then draw the clear (very clear) wort off from
*around* the mountain of protein and hop debris on the bottom of the kettle.
Apparently, I did not understand your technique but now my vision of the
"mountain or protein" geive me pause. I see you standing there with a sipon
tube with a pot scrubber on the end poking around in the kettle to keep it in
just the right position, not too close or you suck it up. Then when you are
all done, I see this mountain again with a large pool of clear wort around it
that you can't quite get at for fear of sucking up the crud. I trust you
have all this figured out but never having done it that way, thinking about
it gives me a headache.
(no problem with HSA, because I don't splash),
Wishful thinking. The major air/wort interface is the surface. The
continually changing surface area provides orders of magnitude more aeration
than a little (or even a lot of) splashing. I am not convinced that either
will cause any serious harm but don't hide under the splashing blankie.
> dogmatism has no place in brewing.
Unless, of course, it comes from me.. :) That's for Norm.
js
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 07:20:00 EST
From: "/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/"@mr.cber.fda.gov
Subject: RE: Nasty Brews (Part 2)
Continuing the discussion on Matt Rowley's post in HBD #1267:
>What about Australia? anyone know of aboriginal beer drinks
>there? Hawaii? Didn't Cook make beer of breadfruit on
>landing, which the Hawaiians thought foul? There was a
>Polynesian kava drink, but to my knowledge it wasn't
>intoxicating. Anyone know?
As mentioned in my earlier posting, no known alcoholic beverages
were made by Australian aborigines, at least according to the
literature I've seen. I'll happily stand corrected if anyone comes
up with a reference to the contrary.
I'm unfamiliar with specifics of the Cook story, but there's no
reason why breadfruit couldn't be successfully fermented. There's
no mention in the literature of modern breadfruit fermentations.
The Polynesians brewed a drink from masticated kava root.
Unfortunately, like most indigenous beers in which saliva is used
as the starch-converting agent, the beer is not often seen these
days. The amylolytic enzymes in saliva are quite efficient,
however, so my guess is that kava beer had a fair amount of
alcohol.
>We were also comparing rates of alcoholism to length of
>contact with alcohol.
>I guess I'm not looking just for nasty stuff, but also odd
>things. Any recipes'd be appreciated, either private e-mail
>or posting here.
I'll leave you with two references. The best book I've seen on
indigenous beers (and other fermented foods) in general is
Steinkraus, Keith et al, "Handbook of Indigenous Fermented Foods",
NY, Marcel Dekker, 1983 (Thanks, Eric Urquhart!)
The best book on the role of alcohol in primitive societies is
Aasved, Mikal, "Alcohol, Drinking, and Intoxication in
Preindustrial Society: Theoretical, Nutritional, & Religious
Considerations", Santa Barbara, Univ. Calif., 1988 (Thanks, Alan
Eames!)
I believe the latter is a doctoral dissertation, but you should be
able to get both of these through interlibrary loan at your
college.
Hope this information helps you on your way.
Sorry I forgot the .sig in my previous posting.
Bill Ridgely (Brewer, Patriot, Bicyclist) __o
ridgely@a1.cber.fda.gov -\<,
ridgely@cber.cber.fda.gov ...O/ O...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:06:08 EST
From: Bob_McIlvaine@keyfile.com
Subject: Burners
I'm interested in finding information on gas
burner design.
Can anyone tell me where to find any books
or info on things like port sizing, air mixtures,
orifice sizes, gas pressures, etc.?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:05:41 EST
From: dweller@GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: native beer
RE: Bill Ridgely/"@mr.cber.fda.gov/ RE: Nasty Brews
I had always heard (locally, in Michigan) that the Native
American Indians made spruce beer (in a very-weak form).
No?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:17:08 EST
From: Bob_McIlvaine@keyfile.com
Subject: Keg Insulation
Dennis Lewis asked about insulation for
15 1/2 gal converted kegs.
Since, presumably, this will be sitting on
a heat source such as 'Cajun Cooker'
normal water heater blankets probably
won't take the heat if the flame leaks up
around the bottom.
There is a type of high temp blanket
used in the foundry industry for insulating
foundry furnices. I've use this with very
good results. Since its rated for use
between 1400F and 2000F it won't burn.
Also, since it sort of resembles a 1"
thick piece of felt its easier to handle and
cut.
I've used it for brew kegs as well as for
refractory lining in a small foundry. With
the foundry you can actually hold the outside
of the foundry while the inside has been
heated enough to melt aluminum between
900F and 1200F.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 8:29:45 CST
From: chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: lousy hop rates in extract brewing
In response to Spencer Thomas in Thursdays HBD...
Just a clarifier - The lousy rates you speak of apply to the partial
boil extract brews. If you do an extract brew and boil all 5 gallons
(for a 5 gallon batch), your extract rates won't be affected by higher
wort concentrations...IMHO.
good luck and good brew (whatever way you make it!)
Chris
======================================================================
|Chris Pencis chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin Robotics Research Group |
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 09:07:48 -0600
From: tconklin@rdth2.rdth.luc.edu
Subject: Brewpubs in Munich
Heading out to Munich tonight and wondered if anyone had any favorite
pubs they could recommend. Never been there before so I am really looking
forward to the experience of fresh German brew. Should be a thrill.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 09:56:12 -0500 (EST)
From: ki!risque.ki.com!bernardi@uunet.UU.NET (Dave Bernardi)
Subject: Brew-pub, what's involved...
Hi,
I'm trying to estimate what it would cost to start a Brew-pub
in the state of Pennsylvania. I'm new to this mailing list so
if this has been discussed in the past, let's kill it here.
I'm also pretty new to homebrewing. I've made several batches
(just add water) and a couple that were a combination of extract
and grain and they all turned out pretty good.
I know I have a lot to learn but my goal is to operate a Brew-pub.
My father-in-law already owns a bar so that part is licked. The
Pennsylvania LCB sent me some info a while back and from what I
remember the a brew-pub license is $2,000/year and you are limited
to ~500 kegs or something like that.
What I'm interested in is equipment..... I want to brew the beer
myself, not hand a recipe to a brewery and call it mine. I have
some reference books but I would like to talk to anyone that has
real experience in this.
I assume that since good beer has a shelf life and I won't be
selling large quantities (since a Brew-pub can only sell on-premises),
we would brew small amounts often as opposed to large batches
infrequently. Just to pick a number my guess would be (1) keg a week
per flavor to start. The bar is in a resort area and I already
know the locals won't touch it.
I still have a lot of research to do but if anyone knows where
I can find old brewing supplies or have ideas/plans for making
my own, I would appreciate the help. If I can get this off
the ground, and your ever in Vowinkle, PA. please stop by and
see what you've help create.
Thank you.
Dave Benrardi
- --
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 15:15:18 +0000
From: G.A.Cooper@qmw.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper)
Subject: Isinglass, Old British Beers
Al <korz@iepubj.att.com> asks:
>The Isinglass that I've found is pre-mixed and I specifically asked the
>wholesaler if it needed to be refridgerated. He said no. Now, I'm
>questioning this because of what Norman wrote. Could the pre-mixed
>isinglass be stabilized somehow or does my distributor need to change
>their instructions?
I believe the distibutor needs to change their advice, but Norman's figure
of 50F is a bit restrictive. I use isinglass quite a lot and the manufacturers'
instructions (here in the UK that is) say that the storage temperature must not
exceed 20C (68F). The pre-mixed isinglass then stays as a gel - if it spends
any time at high temp it breaks down, becomes more liquid and doesn't work
anywhere near as well. I keep mine in the fridge, and I know of one homebrew
shop that doesn't stock it in summer. For me it's no problem storing it in
there amongst the yeast, hops, white wine, lagers ....
- -------------
Also we were told:
Title: Home Brewing, The CAMRA guide
Author: Graham Wheeler
Publisher: ALMA books, a subsidiary of CAMRA UK (CAMpaign for Real Ale)
ISBN: 1-85249-107-8
Pages: 180
Price: 64.99 (pounds sterling) (1991 price)
^^^^^
Oh no it's not! I got one and I certainly wouldn't have paid that for it!
Question: Is it the 4 or the 6 that is the mistype?
- ---------
And the other misprint! I haven't got my copy yet but..
From: Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu:
>I was reading the latest Zymurgy last night, and happened upon the old
>English beer recipes. (From the Durbin Park club??)
^^^^^^^^^^^
That's Durden Park.
And From Ed <WESTEMEIER@delphi.com>:
>All of the recipes list ingredients for making "six US gallons" which
>is plainly wrong if you examine the quantities. In fact, the quantities
>shown are for making _one_(UK)_gallon_.
>
>CORRECTION:
>To make five US gallons, multiply all quantities by 4.2 (that's close
>enough). This should be obvious, but you never know....
Or: multiply by 5 to get 6 US gallons.
And, on re-reading my email to Zymurgy, I can only assume that it was my
making the above statement to them that has given rise to the error. Even
though I clearly said that the ingredients were "per imperial gallon".
Lesson: don't make helpful statements.
I can also (from personal experience) strongly recommend trying the recipes.
Geoff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:43:29 CST
From: Dave Justice <DD24005@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Pilsner Urquell
I just finished reading C.R. Saikley's submissions on Czech beers and
PU. I found it interesting in that I visited the brewery in August and
noticed the changes taking place. At any rate, it was his description
of brilliantly clear that struck a chord in me. I've noticed recently
the proliferation of beer being sold in 22-24 oz. bottles and cans -
at least around here anyway - and PU is no exception. I was examining
one such bottle the other day and noticed some sediment on the bottom.
I didn't really expect this in a bottle of PU so I had to try it. It
turned out being the best example of PU I've ever had here in the
states. Usually the stuff you get here is overly bitter IMO and is
probably meant to be so for preservation reasons. In this instance the
diacetyl was noticeable but a great compliment to the hop character as
C.R. described in his post. The sediment disappears with little
perturbation and as such the beer is not brilliantly clear. So what is
the sediment? Is PU exporting something different now or is this an
abberation? BTW the batch number (?) as stamped on the bottle is 11A2
if that means anything.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 9:56:31 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: inadvertent lambic, black & tan
> I made a batch of aborted vienna lager and the brew turned out to be
> infected from the new fermenter I was using (used keg). In the
> process of washing out the goo, some flat, ropy-looking stuff came
> washing out. It was the color of trub, sort of an off-beige and very
> stringy. I examined a piece of it and it was quite resilient with a
> faint acidy smell. Any ideas what that might be?
Certainly sounds like some sort of lacto- or peddio- bacterial
infection. In fact, it sounds identical to an infection that plagues my
brewery from time to time (unfortunately, I don't brew p-lambics :-( ).
I haven't positively identified the bug, but it does form a stringy
beige rope on top of the krausen. Fortunately, it doesn't have a huge
impact on the beer -- a slight astringency, some sourness, and
cloudiness, but not much in the way of off odor. BTW, if someone has
ideas on how to combat such a beast, besides the usual "sanitize the
heck out of everything", I'd appreciate the info.
> Guinness and..... Pabst Blue Ribbon. Call it a Black and Blue if you like.
When I was in college, we drank "Sheaf & Shafe" -- one-sixth bottle of
Sheaf Stout mixed with each can of a six pack of Sheaffer (sp?). Back
then, it seemed like a pretty good way to stretch your beer dollar.
- --
Jeff "still drinks Schlitz on occasion" Benjamin benji@fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 02:45:00 BST
From: mike.keller@genie.geis.com
Subject: Beer labels.
In 1268 Dion writes a summary of s/w for beer labels:
||My criteria were (in order of importance): ||
|| ||
||cost (free is preferable) ||
||DOS or MS Windows (X Windows acceptable, but not preferred) ||
||able to fit text into a defined shape (like a banner) ||
|| ||
||Suggestions have been: ||
|| <snip> ||
||Corel Draw - will do it all, but list price $399 ||
|| ||
Since the release of Corel Draw 4, Corel Draw 3 (which is still
available) has been priced as low as $125. I've seen this price both
in mail order and in Sam's Club. Comes with lotsa fonts, and lots
more fonts and clip art if you have a CD ROM player.
mike keller, beer sysop, GEnie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:47:28 -0800
From: Drew Lynch <drew@chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: Adding spices to beer
I have made Christmas Ales about 4 years in a row now, using about
the same recipe(based on Papzian's Christmas ale recipe, I forget the
name). What I have varied is when during the boil the spices are
added. Usually, I try to figure out long it will take to extract the
desired essences from the spice, and how easily they will boil off.
This time, (for 5 gallons) I added 4 cinnanmon sticks at the beginning
of the (60 minute) boil, and added 4oz chopped ginger, and the peel
from 4 oranges and 1 lemon 5 minutes from the end of the boil. I
assume it will mellow a bit in the bottle, but tasted from the
secondary, the cinnamon and ginger come through like gangbusters.
Drew
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:49:20
From: rodney.shupe@deepcove.com
Subject: CONVERSION OF MALT M
I'm tring to convert Malt dry messure amounts into amounts of Malt Extracts in
volume messure. ie: X number of grams/pounds -> Y number of liters/fluid oz.
Can anyone help?
Rodney Shupe - rodney.shupe@deepcove.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:24:25 EST
From: carlsont@GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: small batch brewing
This fall I started brewing one gallon batches of beer and
found it to be very enjoyable. The problems I had with the
traditional 5 gallon batches were that I did'nt have time to
process that much beer. While handling 5 gallons is more
efficient (less time/bottle), it does take bigger blocks of
time that I don't have. The other problem was that I don't
drink enough beer to go through 5 gal. very fast. If I made
an average batch of beer I found myself drinking average
beer for 6 months. The alternative (dumping $25 worth of
beer down the drain) was equally unapealing. By breewing
one gal at a time I am able to experiment more often. My
beer is improving 5 times faster since I brew 5 times more
often. (and it is still improving - I still consider myself
a beginning brewer)
My questions for the more experienced brewers are
1) Are there any hints for adapting traditional 5 gal
recipies to a 1 gal size (other than dividing amounts by 5)?
2) Why is the 5 gal batch so standard? Is there any one
elese like me who finds advantages in small batch brewing?
Todd Carlson
carlsont@gvsu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 13:51 CST
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Handling hops/Priming lagers/Crabtree effect/Language in the HBD
Alan writes--
>I start out by measuring an amount of hops and putting them into a large
>glass mixing bowl. Then I stick the jar down in the hops and stuff them
>in with my hand.
I've read that the amount of bacteria on your hands can be orders of
magnitude more than in your mouth! Thus, I've taken to handling hops
with a sanitized surgical glove. I get the hops in quarter bales (whole)
or 11lb vacuum-sealed packages and then go directly into new, oxygen-barrier
bags (I can only assume they are relatively sanitary), purge with CO2,
squish out excess CO2 and then heat seal the bags. When I use the hops,
I sanitize the SS weighing dish, usually with boiling water, and then pour
the hops back and forth between the dish and the bag till I have the right
amount in the dish. Thus, I've never handled the hops with bare hands.
Not a problem for boiling or flavoring hops, but it could be a potential
problem area for dryhops.
*********************************
Carl writes--
>I plan to bottle my first lager over Thanksgiving weekend. Particulars since
>my post in #1240: Primary at 45F for 3 weeks, secondary at 45F since. Am I
>likely to need more yeast (after Wyeast #2007) for conditioning and, if yes,
>what type(s) are least likely to affect the character of the beer?
I'm primarily an ale brewer, so I don't have much recent lager experience,
but the latest Traditional Bock I did was made with Wyeast #2308 (Munich)
and spent two weeks in the primary and about 8 weeks in the secondary and
did not require any additional yeast at bottling time to produce carbonation.
The beer carbonated well, within two weeks and long before it was ready to
consume (4 months of lagering at 40F in the bottle was needed to make the
perm-solution nose to miraculously disappear!).
The most important point to my response is this:
DON'T CHANGE YEASTS AT BOTTLING TIME!!!
Unless you are 100% sure that the yeast you are adding at bottling is
LESS ATTENUATIVE than the fermentation strain AND that you have no
chance of even trace bacteria in the bottling strain, I recommend
relying on the fermentation yeast for conditioning. If you add even
a very small amount of bacteria or if you use a more attenuative yeast
at bottling, you will make yourself a couple of cases of glass grenades.
At best, you'll get gushers. This is especially important for lagers
since they will be stored for a while before consumption.
****************************************
Carl also writes:
>Also on priming, has anyone else heard of or have more info on the "Crabtree
>effect" described by Troy Howard in #1264? Sounds like a good reason to
>abandon use of corn sugar for priming on the face of it.
Look in George Fix's book, Principles of Brewing Science for more on the
Crabtree effect (although, I believe there's a few missing words in that
paragraph (George?)). However, I don't agree with Carl that it's a good
reason to abandon corn sugar. I switched from corn sugar to DME priming
and then switched back because I found little difference except for what
I think was protein scum (ring around the collar) in the bottles when I
used DME for priming (note that I did not force-cool the DME priming
solution, perhaps that would have helped).
*****************************************
My view on the issue of questionable language in the HBD is that I feel it
should be avoided. I'm not offended, rather, I feel that it is rather
"unprofessional" to have such language intermixed amongst world-class
brewing knowledge. It sort of cheapens the HBD. The combined knowledge
of us here on the digest (and that includes even the beginners, who can
contribute interesting questions and discoveries, as well as the seasoned,
advanced brewers), far surpasses the knowledge in even the most respected
single book. To me the HBD is like a living book... in print... each day.
How much respect might we have for Malting and Brewing Science if Hough
et. al. had stuck the occasional four-letter-word? My rule of thumb is,
"does this sound appropriate for a magazine article or a book?" Let's
continue to have fun, but let's also not write anything that cheapens the
HBD... these are not mutually exclusive goals.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 15:25:21 EST
From: dougy@icad.COM ( Doug Lethin)
Subject: Beer Labels
For beer labels, I also suggest a program called
KeyDrawPLUS for windows. I paid $28.00 for it.
It has features for aligning text to curves, creating perspectives,
extruding text, and other actions that vary text shape. Although it
does not have a feature to shape text to a inputed shape, if the shape is
simple, you could warp the text into that shape.
Drawbacks are :
Its not as user friendly as other programs I have seen, and its user
manual also is not the greatest.
I used it to define a logo for musical group, and the size became so
large, that at times it would use all of my memory and crash my PC.
Memory management was not done well with that program.
Other than that, I would still recommend it.
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 15:45:43 MST
From: npyle@n33.stortek.com
Subject: Dry Hop Bitterness from Beta Acids?
Darren Aaberge replied to my Byron Burch/dry hop question via email:
(Darren, my reply to you bounced!)
DA>Byron Burch says something to the effect of:
DA>
DA>To calculate bitterness
DA>(A) Multiply the number of ounces of hops per 5 gallons by their alpha
DA>acid rating.
DA>(B) Divide by 7.25
DA>(C) If the hops are boiled for more than 45 minutes multiply by 28-30. If
DA>they are boiled for 15 to 40 minutes multiply by 8-12. If they are boiled
DA>for less than 15 minutes or are dry hopped multiply by 5.
I ran some quick numbers based on a recent brew. I was surprised to see
something this simplistic come fairly close to the IBUs from Rager's formulae.
"Fairly close" means within 10 - 15% overall. This formula appears to take
into account the utilization for different boil times, etc. Interesting. The
part about dry hopping, though, deserves further thought and discussion.
DA>He says that these numbers assume a rapid chilling at the end of the boil.
DA>Also, he defines dry hopping as adding hops (and he implies only pellets can
DA>be used) to the fermenter prior to fermentation. He goes on to qualify this
DA>method of calculating bitterness by saying that it is the system of the
DA>American Society of Brewing Chemists.
I'm going to assume what I've read is true, and that alpha acids (which are
neither soluble nor bitter) will not give up any bitterness without being
isomerized by boiling. The fact that he adds his dry hops to the fermenter
_prior to fermentation_ may be a clue. Beta acids do not need isomerization
to become bitter. The oxidation products of beta acids are soluble and bitter,
although I don't have a good feel for how much bitterness they contribute.
Malting and Brewing Science indicates that they may contribute a considerable
amount. The common wisdom says that when hops are exposed to oxygen, the alpha
acids oxidize into non-bitter products, and are no longer available to
isomerize into bitter iso-alpha acids. MABS indicates that oxidized beta acids
in the same hops may counter a considerable amount of the lost alpha acids, and
that the formulae for lost bitterness in old hops may not be accurate. I don't
have the book (I need more books!) so I am justing passing on what I've been
told on this.
Back to Burch:
At the point where Burch adds his dry hops, there is lots of oxygen in the
wort, or there should be for yeast reproduction. This will allow the beta
acids to oxidize and become bitter until reproduction uses up all the oxygen
and/or fermentation drives it all off. This may be where Burch gets his
bitterness from dry hopping, and it may be where others in this forum have
seen it as well. Long lag times would contribute to the bitterness.
In recent times, I've restricted my dry hopping to _after primary fermentation_
and have had no bitterness associated with it. This supports my theory, in
that there is no oxygen for beta acid oxidation at that point. To those who've
reported bitterness from dry-hopping: when do you dry hop? Does your data
support my idea?
DA>While all of this is taken from the book "Brewing Quality Beers" by Byron
DA>Burch, none of it is direct quotes. If you want more information or direct
DA>quotes, let me know. You may, of course, post any or all of this to the
DA>HBD if you wish.
Direct quotes would be nice, if you have the time and inclination. Is anyone a
ASBC member? Is this their method for estimating IBUs? Enquiring minds want
to know...
Hoppy Trails,
Norm
------------------------------
Date: 11 Nov 93 17:06:23 -0600
From: mbarre@nomvs.lsumc.edu
Subject: Hunting (dweebs) over a baited field
J.S.,
Keep on Truckin'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 16:41:04 PST
From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair@ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Request
Text item: Text_1
Please add me to the HBD mailing list
Thanks,
Jack St.Clair
Jack_st_clair@ccm.hf.intel.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 18:55 CDT
From: David Atkins <ATKINS@macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: breweriana
Some digests ago, a subscriber wished to identify brewery labels and graphics.
Check your local libraries for some of these titles (if your libraries do not
have any of these items, see if they can provide the items via interlibrary
loan).
Periodicals:
American Breweriana Jounal: Official Publication of the American Breweriana
Association, Inc. Colorado Springs Colo.
All About Beer. Anaheim, CA. McMullen Pub.
Beer Can Collectors News Report. St. Louis, Mo. Beer Can Collectors of America.
Breweriana Collector. Los Angeles, CA.
Books:
Check under the subjects Beer, Brewing, and Breweries at your local
libaries. There is a publication, whose title escapes me, that provides a
geographic listing of hundreds of breweries that have winked in and out of
existence during the history of the US. If you wish to research a local history
and see what breweries have been around, try a local historical society as well.
As for the mystery title, I'll try to find it to post at a later date...or if
any other subscribers could post more info, that would be just as dandy.
And to the list has a collective...
1) has there ever been compiled a bibliographic FAQ or book & periodical list
concerning beer, brewing and breweries?
2) if not 1) would there be any interest in having one compiled?
Please feel free to respond personal email as well as to the digest.
Happy beering,
David Atkins
atkins@macc.wisc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 20:50:29 -0800 (PST)
From: PGILLMAN@POMONA.CLAREMONT.EDU
Subject: Twist off vs opener only
I was wondering if pressure differences and retention are the reason that
there is a difference in the taste between commercial beers with twist tops
and those with opener only tops. any one have another explanation or support
for this one?
thanks
phil
pgillman@pomona.edu
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1270, 11/12/93
*************************************
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