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HOMEBREW Digest #1275
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/11/18 00:34:47
HOMEBREW Digest #1275 Thu 18 November 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Dry Czech Pilsner?/Raspberry sweetness/Golden Syrup+saccharin (korz)
Hops and Bacteria (Mark Garetz)
HSA+Papazian Method/Hunter Airstat/trub separation/dueling thermostats (korz)
trub,censor,... (mbarre)
1993 Dixie Cup Results Available (Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral)
Small Kegs + Homebrew in Porto Rico (Mike Westra)
Cider and Mead- Styles / Hops in the hand (COYOTE)
Golden Syrup (Brian Bliss)
treacle/hsa/plain text posting/keg dispense ("PAUL EDWARDS")
sanitizing bottle washers (EKELLY)
hard water treatment ("TIMOTHY LABERGE")
Xmas ales (tasting results) (Alan B. Carlson)
Re: Dough in temps (Jim Busch)
Filtering (Phil Brushaber)
batch sparge, astringency (Russell Gelinas)
Aluminum Brewpot ("Mark T. Berard, Dow Plastics, LAD, TYRIN* CPE R&D")
No-Hop Beer/Primus-Secondus-Tercius (Don Oswald)
Microbreweries and Fruit Beer (Matthew Evans)
flying homebrew (Chris Pencis)
"Beer, the magazine" (Kip Damrow)
Re: Flying Homebrew (Brett Baumberger)
flying homebrew (Brian Bliss)
cranberry beer recipes wanted (Ben C. Bloom)
Golden Syrup (Chuck Wettergreen)
Hops FAQ/Barley Wine/Immersion Chiller/HSA/Anti-Bacterial? (npyle)
Re: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars (Drew Lynch)
Re: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars ("Paul Jasper")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 13:58 CST
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Dry Czech Pilsner?/Raspberry sweetness/Golden Syrup+saccharin
Cecil writes:
>I made a Czech Pilsner using a can of BREWMART Czech Pilsner extract.
>I also used 3 lbs extra light DME. The can came with a dried yeast and
>a pilsner enzyme. At 68 degrees I pitched both the yeast and the enzyme.
>It took the normal 1-2 days to start foaming but stayed extremely active
>for 2 weeks. A local brew shop said bottle it anyway and that it would be
>considered a dry beer. I drank 2 sips and decided to dispose of the entire
>batch. I could pop the cap and sit the bottle upright in the sink and watch
>it empty its self from the bottom up. Help !! What did I do wrong ?
Bottled too early, probably, but there are other points in your post that
I would like to address. 1. Pilsners are lagers and I've read that there
currently is no true lager yeast available in dry form (lager yeasts just
don't like to be de-hydrated, I guess). 2. What a two-week ferment has
to do with it being a "dry beer" I don't know. 3. "Pilsner enzyme"
certainly has nothing to do with a real Pilsner -- I believe that dry beers
are indeed brewed with some kind of enzyme that breaks the complex sugars
down to virtually all glucose, so maybe that's what they meant.
There is a chance that you introduced some bacteria with the dried yeast
(some have very high bacterial counts) or the enzyme. This would explain
why it tasted bad and why fermentation took so long. I advise to forget
the enzyme next time, wait till fermentation is virtually over (I wait till
there are 2 minutes between glubs) before you bottle and see if the beer
turns out better.
****************************
J writes:
>Last week I started an extract batch based on the following recipe:
>
>6 lb can Ireks wheat
>1.5 lbs light malt extract
>1 lb honey
>1 oz Tett (boil)
>1/2 oz Cascade (boil)
>
>same as above (finish)
>
>I then cooled the wort, dumped it onto roughly three pounds of frozen
>raspberries, and pitched with wyeast weizen (liquid).
>
>Vigorous fermentation started in 18 hours and subsided in three days.
>
>Now my questions:
>1) Upon racking to the secondary, I found a noticeable sourness and a
>slight tinge of sulfur oder. Now I realize that Weizens are supposed to
>be a bit sour, so I'm not all that worried. Question is, how does one
>distinguish the difference between sourness due to style and sourness due
>to infection ? Also, will sourness mellow in the bottle ??
Actually, only Berliner Weiss are sour according to style (and that's due
to an intentional Lactobacillus infection). The raspberries added some
sourness, I'll bet, but it could also be an infection. If the beer ferments
out to be super-dry, it is probably a bacterial infection. There is a
bacteria called Malo-Lactic Bacteria (Wyeast has it) which "converts harsher
malic acid to milder lactic acid" but if the sourness is from a lactic
infection, nothing like this will help reduce the sourness.
>2) Papazian says a sulfur oder is "normal" depending on yeast types and
>conditions and claims it can be rectified by changing temperatures. The
>primary was at ~ 65 F and when I racked to 2nd, I put it in a room at
>about ~ 60. Will this help ?? Any suggestions ??
The sulfur odor will eventually go away if it is from the yeast, but I'm
not sure if you need to keep it in the fermenter or if you can bottle it
and wait for the smell to go away.
>3) Lastly, the raspberries haven't (yet) imparted as much fruity sweetness
>as I have experienced in some other raspberry Weizens... Is it possible
>to use something akin to a raspberry syrup instead ?
Raspberries will not impart much sweetness. The sugar in them will ferment
away leaving mostly raspberry aroma. Some of this aroma will get scrubbed
-out by evolving CO2 if you add the fruit at pitching time. I recommend
putting the fruit in after primary fermentation is over. This will also
reduce the chances of infection. A raspberry syrup will probably be mostly
corn syrup, which will ferment away also. What you need to do is to add
some unfermentable sugar to leave some sweetness. I added 8 ounces of
lactose to a recent 15 gallon batch of raspberry/cherry ale. It did sweeten
it a little bit, but not much. I think adding 8 ounces to 5 gallons is more
reasonable for adding some residual sweetness. BTW, I'm not a biologist,
but I'll bet that Lactose is fementable by Lactobacillus, so be extra
careful with sanitation!
******************************
Bruce writes:
>In "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy", Dave Line gives a recipe for
>"Bishop's Tipple", a real ale. The recipe asks for "1 lb Golden Syrup".
>Is Golden Syrup one of those things like Treacle which is unknown in the USA?
>Or is it what Americans call Corn Syrup?
It's a UK thing, as is Treacle. You can get it (along with Treacle) from some
specialty food stores if you can't get it from your HB supplier. As for
Tate & Lyle's Golden Syrup.
>Line also advocates sacchrine tablets to give residual sweetness. I understand
>Lactose is a "better" way to provide residual sweetness. Is there a rule of
>thumb for the amount of lactose to add? I see amounts like 10-12 oz given in
>Cat's Meow. Is it added to the boil? Is there something like "One sacchrine
>tablet = x oz lactose"?
Line's book was written at a time when there were much fewer choices for
yeast and all the yeasts that he had to choose from were quite attenuative.
A less-attenuative yeast could be all you need. If you add lactose, you can
add it in the boil, or boil some up and add it at bottling time -- it's
unfermentable, so it doesn't matter as long as you sanitize it. Adding at
bottling time also allows you to add it to taste, but be aware that the
beer will become a bit more acidic when it carbonates, so you may want to
make it a touch sweeter than you want the final product to be. See my note
above on Lactose and be aware that Lactose is not very sweet -- much less
sweet than sucrose, fructose or glucose.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 14:48:35 PST
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz@hoptech.com>
Subject: Hops and Bacteria
Jack Schmidling writes (in response to my post):
>I think what I learned is that the anti-bacterial characteristics of hops are
either a myth or greatly exagerated in the brewing folklore. Clearly, if
yeasts and bacteria live on the hops and can innoculate a culture dish, it is
not very bacteriocidal.
The bacteriocidal constituents of the hops is in the lupulin glands. Lots of
beasties can live on the petals outside the lupulin glands. These were whole
hops in the study, so it's not surprising that cultures taken from the hops
would grow stuff since the lupulin glands would, in large part, be intact.
>It would have been interesting if there was a control using a handful of
grass clippings or leaves to find out if it was the nature of the fermented
beer or the hops that prevented contamination.
Since at dry-hopping temps it takes quite a few days (more than three) for
stuff to migrate out of the lupulin glands, I would say it points pretty
conclusively to the fact that the beer itself is what did the trick, but
it may have been helped along by the hop constituents already in the beer
from the boil.
I'd have to double check my references, but I think the anti-bacterial
action of the hops is largely bacteriostatic (meaning it prevents further
growth) as opposed to bacteriocidal (meaning it kill the suckers outright).
Again, I could be mistaken on this. My references are 40 miles away.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 14:08 CST
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: HSA+Papazian Method/Hunter Airstat/trub separation/dueling thermostats
Ken writes:
>I have not heard about the "problems" with HSA and have been using the
>advice from Papazian's book. Could someone explain why I should use
>the "Papazian" method or direct me to a source for the information.
Don't you mean "shouln't use the 'Papazian' method?" Well, the best
source for Hot-Side Aeration (HSA) info, would certainly be George Fix's
article in a recent Zymurgy (three or four issues ago). If you are using
a carboy and pouring hot wort through a funnel into the cold water below
and if the wort is really splashing around as it goes into the carboy, then
you probably are getting some HSA. I used to do something like this and
the result was a sort of sherry-like, wet-cardboard aroma/flavor. If you
use a plastic bucket as your primary and pour the wort in gently, the
effects will be barely noticable. I can attest to this because I recently
made a few test batches of some "pre-measured kits" I designed for beginners
and gentle pouring into cool water produced virtually none of these off-flavors
(I followed the beginner instructions just like I wrote them, just to be sure).
I noticed that when I switched from the "hot wort through funnel into carboy"
method to "adding 2 gallons of near freezing, sanitized water into kettle"
method, there was a big difference. Building an immersion chiller improved
my beer even further with respect to eliminating these off-flavor.
Build or borrow an immersion chiller and see if you can taste the difference.
I think you will notice a big difference.
*****************************
Also Ken writes:
>After all of this interest in the Hunter Airstat, I am kind of interested
>in taking a look at one. Could someone tell me where I can find one?
Too bad all this interest in the Airstat didn't come sooner... it has been
discontinued by Hunter due to poor sales. You may still be able to find
a few at your local hardware store or Builder's Square/Home Base/Handy Andy.
Ask for a "window airconditioner thermostat by Hunter Fan Company." Many
salespeople don't have a clue if you ask for an AirStat.
********************
Mark writes:
>i recently got miller's book and was wondering if anyone out there has
>firsthand knowledge of how separating the trub from the wort before
>fermentation improves the beer. how dramatic is the effect? does anyone
There has been a lot of debate on this issue. Some say that if you use
the blowoff method, you don't need to separate the wort from the trub.
One reason for pitching before separation from the trub is that the yeast
can use some stuff in the trub for nutrition. If you aerate well, the
yeast can synthesize the materials they need and thus they don't *require*
the trub for nutrition (sterols, I believe). You can aerate up till the
fermentation begins, but aerating early is best -- why delay?
>also, i've noticed strange behavior sometimes when racking beer regarding
>my airlock. just after i fill the carboy with beer and put the airlock
>on, the water starts to get sucked into the fermenter, slowly. i only
>have one theory on this, to wit:
<snip>
Your theory is correct. The cooling/contraction of the airspace in the
fermenter is what sucks in the airlock water. I suggest putting in just
enough water in the airlock so it will work both ways (forward and backward).
Once fermentation begins you can add a little more so it does not run
dry due to evaporation.
**************************
Kieran writes:
>The problem with using a fridge and an external thermostat is that you
>have two thermostats going at the same time--the fridge's and the Hunter
>(or whatever). The fridge thermostat usually will only allow the fridge
>to cool to 38 or 40 or so (F), and the Hunter device will try to continue
>to cool, but can't. To solve this--remove the internal thermostat--wire
>the two wires together and let the Hunter do the job. Just dont try to
>run the fridge with out the Hunter--you'll ruin the compressor
I don't think you have to rewire the original thermostat. Recall
that both thermostats will say "go, compressor, go" when they think
it's too warm. If you set the original to 40F and the Hunter (or
whatever) to 50F, the Hunter will tell the compressor to "stop" at 50F and
to "go on" at 52F or so. Meanwhile the original thermostat is still
saying "it's too warm in here" and will be permanently on. The Hunter
only goes down to 40F without modifications. As long as you keep the
original thermostat set cooler than the Hunter, you'll be okay.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: 16 Nov 93 17:04:52 -0600
From: mbarre@nomvs.lsumc.edu
Subject: trub,censor,...
1 - In New Orleans, I have only seen the Miller Reserve Lager and
Light, but have heard you all mention ale. Whine.
2 - Mark Bayer is worrying about fermenting his beer on top of the
trub. I brew with extracts and cool the wort in the pot in the sink
full of ice water (takes about 30 minutes), then pull the cool wort off
the settled hop pellet, cold/hot break debris. Even so, I get over
1/4" of trub in the carboy after the initial settling. I fermented my
second batch on the trub for over a week, racked to a secondary for
another week or so, and it came out great.
I pulled the third batch into a bottling bucket and let it settle for
45 minutes before siphoning into the carboy. I got less trub, but the
the beer was not as good. I haven't settled first again.
I use (clorinated) tap water in the air lock, and it has never been
sucked in and I haven't had infections.
3 - Lee M.: what about 'manual "HOLD"'?
4 - Bob A.: He said he would try the keg, not the extract.
Michael "Dry Yeast Sucks" Barre
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 17:14:48 CST
From: Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral <slamb@milp.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: 1993 Dixie Cup Results Available
I've finally gotten it together enough to be able to provide the
results of the 1993 Dixie Cup to anyone who is interested.
We had 673 entries this year. Fred Gibson of the Foam Rangers won
best of Show with his Traditional Porter. Jeff Humphreys of the
Foam Rangers and DeFlaco's Home Wine and Beer Supply won the high
point award, and to the chagrin of all Foamies, the North Texas
Home Brewwers Assoc. won the Dixie Cup.
A good time was had by all.
Sean Lamb
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 17:47:43 CST
From: Mike Westra <root@hpuspma.stpaul.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Small Kegs + Homebrew in Porto Rico
Greeting from St.Paul...
Quick one... Does anyone out there know if there are any
kegging systems smaller than 8 Gallons readily available?
Are they appropriate for homebrewing? This is for a friend
in Puerto Rico - does anyone know of any homebrew and/or
brewing supply stores in San Juan?
Please reply to michael_westra@hpatc2.desk.hp.com.
Thanks and Cheers,
Mike Westra
michael_westra@hpatc2.desk.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 13:11:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Cider and Mead- Styles / Hops in the hand
- eric makes cider and...
>I also do about a case a year in which I bottle with
honey - about a third of a cup for a champagne bottle.
That gives it a nice apple "mead" flavor.
* I wouldn't exactly call that a mead. A mead implies FERMENTED honey
with possibly...other stuff. There is a "product" which tm's the name
MEADE (tm!) that's actually wine, with honey added at bottling.
***
Someone else said:
> Mead is simply a wine that uses honey instead of "fruit". I have been
quite successful brewing straight mead (honey and water with a champaign
yeast), spiced mead (called methylgen sp(?)),
* There are a number of types/styles of mead. The common component
is HONEY.
Traditional Mead: Honey/water= ~2.5 # /gal
Sack Mead: 20-25 % more honey than traditnl.
Metheglin: Spiced with Gruit. (herbs, and or hops mixed)
Sack Metheglin: Combine above 2
Pyment-Claree: Grapes added.
Hippocras: Pyment with spices.
Cyser: Apples/cider added.
Muslum, or Melomel: Fruit added. Numerous variations
(other than grape and apple)
Morat: Honey water and mulberries. (This ones a winner with me!)
Mead Brandy: Oh...but that's distilling. **
/--\
Braggot: Honey and malt. 1:1
There are other honey/beer/+ drinks listed in Acton's book.
A couple good-ish books:
Making Mead: Acton and Duncan
Brewing Mead: Charlie Pap. (would be better titles- "History of Mead
Brewing with just a little bit about actually brewing it")
AHA Winners Circle has a chapter or recipes on mead.
*****
Lee posted some Hunter info:
>Some may find the following words offensive:
Chest, down, desire, unit, mount, do.
* I'll have you note please, there are NO three letter words in that list!
*****
js sez:
>I think what I learned is that the anti-bacterial characteristics of hops are
either a myth or greatly exagerated in the brewing folklore. Clearly, if
yeasts and bacteria live on the hops and can innoculate a culture dish, it is
not very bacteriocidal.
* There's a difference between the leaf/flower surface of a plant and
a solution made from extracting the inhibitory components of the lupulin
glands. If you tested just the surface of the lupilin gland it might have
no microbes, while the leaves had many.
Also: The distinction between "existing" and "replicating". Many bacteria
and fungi can "sit" in a dormant state, then proliferate when conditions
become more favorable.
I remember this thread starting with whether hands would transfer
contaminants TO hops, and hence, into beer.
Again- the difference between existence, and replication. There are
resident (generally unharmful) and transient (potentially harmful)
microorganisms on hands and skin. But if your hands are clean the chance
of transfering danger to brew is low (IMHO). Resident microbes generally
do not let go very easily. If you wash well, you should remove most
transient bacteria, and unless you have chicken fat under your nails you
aren't likely to add much to your brew.
I would wager that commercial hops have been handled fairly frequently
before they are broken down to homebrewer size packets. The hope of
not adding more microbes at dry hopping time seems irrelevant.
The hope of having created an inhospitable environment for other bugs
is more realistic.
***** John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P@CC.USU.EDU ****
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 23:40:59 -0600
From: bliss@pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Golden Syrup
Bruce Buck asks:
>Is golden syrup one of those things like Treacle which is unknown in the USA?
>Or is is what Americans call corn syrup?
Lyle & Tate are English sugar confectioners, and make both black Treacle
and golden syrup. We can get Lyle's golden syrup here in Dallas. It
is a cane sugar product, not corn sugar. as a substitute, I would
recommend turbinado style (raw) sugar, which is not refined as much as
white sugar, and does not have molasses added back like american brown
sugar does. I used to get 2 lbs of turbinado sugar at the snuck's
gorcery store in Champaign, Il. A 12 oz bottle of golden Syrup is $5
here in Dallas. They add about the same taste. Guess which one I
(would) prefer...
bb
------------------------------
Date: 17 Nov 93 08:11:00 EST
From: "PAUL EDWARDS" <8260PE@indy.navy.mil>
Subject: treacle/hsa/plain text posting/keg dispense
"thutt@mail.casi.sti.nasa.gov" writes:
>I'm getting tired of seeing the Great Treacle Question posed and
>pondered time and time again. In HBD 1273, Bruce Beck wondered
>what Golden Syrup is (I dunno) and once again mentioned the
>mysterious Treacle.
>No, you cannot buy treacle in the U.S., but that is not the full
>answer. To get the full answer, we must first find out exactly
>what Treacle is.
>Once and for all, Treacle is simply blackstrap molasses. You can
>get this in many places in the U.S.
Golden Syrup is a light golden sugar syrup, made by Tate & Lyle. Has a very
smooth taste. You could probably make your own by *slightly* by dissolving cane
sugar in a little water to make a syrup, and then carmelizing ever so slightly
to get some color. My wife uses T&L Golden Syrup in her peanut brittle recipe
instead of corn syrup.
Yes, you can find Treacle (also made by Tate & Lyle) in the US, but it may be
scarce. I asked a grocery store to get some for me and they did, no problem.
They still have a few cans. It also available in better HB shops, along with
Golden Syrup. GW Kent used to supply it, but no more I've been told. And, no,
I won't buy it and ship to anyone, I'm buying it for myself.
Treacle is most definitely *not* "simply blackstrap molasses". Anyone who
has tasted Treacle and BS molasses side by side can easily tell the difference.
Treacle is very ssmooth and not at all harsh tasting like any of the BS
Molasses I've tried.
And, for Paul Hethmon, if a HB shop employee didn't even know what Treacle was,
I'd find a different shop.
"EKELLY@admin.stmarys.ca" writes:
>[ This message contains the file 'TEMP.WP5', which has been
>uuencoded. If you are using Pegasus Mail, then you can use
>the browser's eXtract function to lift the original contents
>out to a file. If you are not using Pegasus Mail, you will
>have to extract the message and uudecode it manually.]
-garbage deleted-
Excuse me, but I don't have Pegasus Mail, or the facility for "uudecode", so
next time please speak in plain text. You may have had something important to
say, but I'll but there's a bunch of others like me who have no way of finding
out.
Ulick Stafford writes:
>In my last posting in 1271 I mentioned the recommendation in Papazian to
>pour the hot wort in cold water in a carboy as being bad advice and
>received a number of worried responses, to some of whom email responses
>bounced. I'll quote Charlie himself, RDWHAHB. While this procedure
>is not correct - chilling in a bathtub or with a wort chiller prior to
>pouring is recommended, the amount of damage that could be expected due
>to hot side aeration is so slight that it is unlikely to be noticable.
I gotta disagree with your last statement. I hadn't done a brew without benefit
of a chiller in a zillion years, but customers bring bottles of their beer to
the local HB shop where I help out. I've tasted plenty of HB from beginning
brewers who do the CP "partial boil and dump into cold water" immediately
method, and the oxidation is definitely noticeable. So, some time ago, I tried
it both ways - chilling pot in sink of ice water vs immediately pouring hot wort
into cold water - in a split batch experiment (same yeast, same fermentation
conditions, etc). The "hot pour" half had a *noticeable* oxidized flavor not
present in the chilled-then-poured half. I teach beginning HB classes for the
local parks dept, and for the above-mentioned shop, so I emphasize at least
chilling wort in a sink of ice water, if they don't want to buy or make a
chiller of some sort. Yeah, the "hot pour" batch was drinkable, but the other
was much better, and chilling in a sink of ice water is so easy, and doesn't
take all that long.
CP's book is great, esp for new brewers, but I'm disappointed he didn't update
things more in the NCJOHB, considering all that's been learned since the first
edition was published.
And lastly, all you keggers who can't seem to get your beer to dispense
correctly, may I suggest that you get a copy of the transcript from the 1992 AHA
convention in Milwaukee. Dave Miller gave a bang-up presentation on dispensing
of kegged beer. As Tom Leith' post in #1274 pointed out, one must
balance the keg pressure and the resistance in the tap line to get a proper
pour. Line diameter, material, and length all come into play, along with the
height the beer is lifted from the keg to the faucet.
-- PSE
Any chiller is better than no chiller!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 09:25:31 -0400 (AST)
From: EKELLY@admin.stmarys.ca
Subject: sanitizing bottle washers
Sorry for the encoded version on November 17. Here is the english
version.
Does anyone know how to sanitize/sterilize a bottle washer. I am
referring to the brass device that attaches to a faucet and
releases a high pressure jet of water into a bottle (or carboy).
This device has a small ball inside the end piece which acts as a
valve to shut off the jet of water when the bottle is removed. It
appears this ball prevents the residual water from draining from
the device after its use. This water seems to be the source of
contamination in a couple of my batches. I am not sure if merely
running water through will flush the contamination. I have tried
injecting bleach into the device followed by an overnight soak
which resulted in the device turning a shade of green.
Any advice or assistance will be appreciated.
Ed Kelly
Saint Mary's University
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
ekelly@admin.stmarys.ca
------------------------------
Date: 17 Nov 93 09:00:00 EST
From: "TIMOTHY LABERGE" <LABERGET@gar.union.edu>
Subject: hard water treatment
Hi All,
I've just received an analysis of my tap water.
Here are the important numbers:
Chloride 25ppm
Sulfate 38ppm
Calcium 54.5ppm
CaCO3 140ppm
Ph 7.7
The CaCo3 seems high, particularly with the amount of calcium that
is present. What is my best course of action, other than brewing
only dark beers? E-mail replies are fine.
Tim LaBerge
No fancy sig, just good beer.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 15:15:32 CET
From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc@adb.gu.se>
Subject: Xmas ales (tasting results)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 09:36:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Dough in temps
> From: jimg@dcz.gso.uri.edu (James Gallagher)
> Subject: mash in temps
>
> I have noticed that many recipes here and elsewhere describe a procedure
> where grain is added to water at one temp and then the mash is raised to
> another temp. However, there are also recipes where grain is added to water
> at a temperature such that the mash does not need a boost to the proper
> temperature. Is there any reason not to always use water at a temp such that
> the mash will be at conversion temp. or protein rest temp. without
> adjustment?
>
Good question. It all depends on your brewing style, equipment, style of
beer to produce, and malt choice (simple, eh...?). Many lager brewers insist
on a protein rest, certainly weizens need a protein rest. Many ale brewers
do a single or two step mash, myself included. With Pale Ale malt, there
is not much need for a step mash, and I use the *shudder* Briess 2 row malt,
one of the *low* quality malts (as do Sam Adams, Dominion Brewery, and
countless other "quality brewers"). I used to go for the upward step mash,
but after noting that Dominion Ale is made from a single infusion, and some
California micro mashes all of 5 minutes at 155 prior to lautering.....I
changed my basic ale mash. One of the problems of using Briess is it will
convert real fast, sometimes leaving the beer too thin, too low FG. To
combat this, I have been using more Munich malt (deWulf) to boost the body
and flavor. I also have tried mashing at 158F , and this has worked well,
esp when I am making high gravity brews, and diluting them in the kettle
and/or fermenter. One of the major benefits of doughing in at a lower temp
is the acidulation of the mash can occur, prior to saccaharification. I
just use some Gypsum, and mash at 15X F for 60 min, then raise to 170. Works
for me.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 07:17:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber@lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Filtering
I agree with Jim Busch that filtering can really help your brew.
I would make a couple of observations: 1) Make sure your beer is
about as mature as you want it before filtering. IMHO the beer
does not age much after it has had the yeast removed. 2) Filtering
DOES seem to remove some of the "body" of the beer. As a result,
while I tend to filter my light colored brews, I do not filter
the dark ones.
As part of the message Jim suggests:
>Since I was filtering two quite different beers, I back flushed the filter
>between beer types, and tons of yeast came out. I still think that a
>5 micron filter is perfectly adequate for removing excess yeast.
Jim... How do you back flush the filter? Normally, between batches
I first run some water through it, then some Idophor, then water again,
and the start filtering again.
... Homeless... will work for beer!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 09:29:40 -0500 (EST)
From: gelinas@ekman.unh.edu (Russell Gelinas)
Subject: batch sparge, astringency
It is known that high temperature is a good way to extract tannins from
grain. It is also known that low pH inhibits that extraction. The latter
is the reason decoction mashing does not cause excess tannin extraction.
Some (myself included) advocate using boiling water for sparging. This
works well, but as the pH of the mash increases as the wort is run off
(water has a higher pH than the mash), the amount of tannins extracted
will also increase. One solution would be to use boiling water for the
beginning of the sparge, and "cooler" (whatever that may be) water as the
sparge progresses. Another solution would be to batch sparge, adding the
boiling water all at once. As has been noted, sugar extract efficiency
will suffer slightly with a batch sparge, but tannin extraction would
likewise be minimized.
Russell Gelinas
opal/ssc (EOS)
unh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 08:52:29 EST
From: "Mark T. Berard, Dow Plastics, LAD, TYRIN* CPE R&D"
Subject: Aluminum Brewpot
With all this talk about chips in enamel pots I have a question. I have
been brewing about a year, maybe 6 batches, all extract, some with
specialty grains, etc. All batches have been pretty good, but nothing
stellar (YET!). Lower cost and ease of use are important factors for me.
Anyway, I have been using a 22 qt Aluminum brewpot (Al. is much cheaper,
especially for pots this size.) Is this really a major problem for the
quality of my beer? Or is a stainless steel pot more like the "charismatic
wooden spoon" thing? If Aluminum IS a real problem, why? Please remember
that I am still a beginner, and subtle advantages to my beer will be lost
amoung all the other mistakes I've been making! Any help of this would be
greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Mark
Dr. Mark T. Berard | Internet: mtberard@dow.com
Snailmail: | Voice: 504-353-8418
Dow Chemical, La. R&D, Bldg. 2506 | FAX: 504-353-6608
PO Box 400, Plaquemine LA 70765 | SCIENCE!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 09:53:32 EST
From: oswald@columbia.sparta.com (Don Oswald)
Subject: No-Hop Beer/Primus-Secondus-Tercius
For the person who was looking into brewing in a part
of the world where hopps are not avialable (in hbd 9 nov):
Before the hop became a popular addition to beer, (12th
century in England?-- I don't hve my books here) there
where several other things which were added to beer to
improve its storage life. The only one I have tried is
spruce - about 8 oz of new growth for 60 miniutes of boil
- leaves the malt sweentess and adds almost a "cola" like
flavor. Some early American Beers also used spruce.
Primus-Secundus-Tercius: An early brewing technique had
several batches of beer made off of the same set of grains.
The descriptions I have found make is sound like a simple
infusion mash with no sparging, repeated to make several
batchs of decreasing strengh. The recipes I have found
make one 80 gallon batch of each of the "three threads"
and use bushals of grain. Has anyone tried these methods
at a scale closer to resonable?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 09:59:19 EST
From: Matthew Evans <matt@cadif.cornell.edu>
Subject: Microbreweries and Fruit Beer
I understand that some microbreweries that are brewing
fruit beers. I am particularly interested in cherry beers,
but does anyone have any info (address and phone numbers)
of these breweries? Have you tried their beers?
How about brewing your own cherry beer? I know people have
tried it but how are the results? Did you use real cherries,
or the Belgian extract?
I am particularly fond of the Belgian Kriek Lambics from
Lindemann's and Liefman's, but I've heard (rumor) that they
aren't lambics but actually brown ales. Has anyone else heard
that?
Thanks for your help. Please send me a copy of the postings
to the above address. Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 9:34:48 CST
From: chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: flying homebrew
I flew Southwest Airlines round-trip Austin to Santa Fe and returned
with a case of various beers (some labeled) from the Santa Fe brewery
(actually in Galisteo). This was in a brown fold top case box. The
person at the security gate wanted to look at the bottles and make sure
none had been opened. I put them in the overhead bin - no problems
there. Overall - I was not hassled by anyone, of course this could just
be the airline and the specific personell (as I feel will probably be
the case for most people).
Chris
======================================================================
|Chris Pencis chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin Robotics Research Group |
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 06:50:42 PST
From: kdamrow@Thomas.COM (Kip Damrow)
Subject: "Beer, the magazine"
Hey there,
I haven't seen any mention of this, so I'll ask...
Has anyone checked out the first edition of "Beer, the magazine" ?
I was very impressed. Any thoughts?
Kip
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 11:00:38 EST
From: Brett Baumberger <bsb@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Flying Homebrew
Hello Fellow Brewers,
I have been successful taking homebrew on airplanes by simply checking the
box as baggage. I used boxes acquired via a beer-of-the month club. There
wasn't any breakage, but I did wrap the inner contents of the box in a
couple of trash bags in case the worst happened. I did not mark the box
fragile or put any other writing on the box that would cause undo
attention. No questions were asked of me about the contents of the box.
The friends I visited had never tasted homebrew before, and they were
quite impressed.
Brett Baumberger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:15:36 -0600
From: bliss@pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: flying homebrew
I never fly without a bottle, homebrew or otherwise.
They've let me on the plane with homebrew, thogh usually
I just take a couple of bottle of imports. The only time
security has ever even looked closer was when I had a flask
full of potent Gin and tonic. The guard just took a whiff to
make sure it wasn't gasoline or something. Hell, it could
have been everclear! Once a flight attendant said I wasn't
supposed to drink on the plane, so just keep it low. Security
guards who do not know what is in the bottle do have a point,
though, so be prepared to check it, chuck it, or chug it.
(the 3 - C's)
The only thing that I have been stopped for, beleive it or
not, was for a set of darts (steel tipped). It was in
Phoenix, I had already carried them on a flight, and they
wouldn't let me go to a different terminal where I was
supposed to meet someone, and all the lockers were in the
security areas.
"Hello captain. I'm sorry, this flight IS going to Cuba.
if you don't fly there voulutarily, I'll have to
a) throw this dart at you.
b) make you drink homebrew until you pass out."
bb
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 08:32:45 PST
From: bloom@inference.com (Ben C. Bloom)
Subject: cranberry beer recipes wanted
I had a remarkable beer discovery experience last night:
Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic
It was crisp, smooth, and had sensational flavor.
I'd like to give it a try to make a cranberry beer. Any favorite
recipes out there?
Thanks,
Ben Bloom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 08:31:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen@aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: Golden Syrup
In HBD beb@pt.com (Bruce Buck) asked:
BB> In "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy", Dave Line gives a recipe
> for "Bishop's Tipple", a real ale. The recipe asks for "1 lb
> Golden Syrup". Is Golden Syrup one of those things like Treacle
> which is unknown in the USA? Or is it what Americans call Corn
> Syrup?
I *believe* that Golden Syrup is nothing more than invert sugar. I
came to this conclusion after looking, tasting, and reading the
ingredients. It looked and tasted just like the invert sugar that I
*used* to used as an alcohol booster in my younger make-it-as-
strong-as-you-can college-brewing days.
Invert sugar can be made by adding four pounds of cane/beet (white)
sugar to two pints of water and 2 teaspoons of citric acid. Heat
until it comes to a boil. Watch it, the boilover of this stuff makes
a wort boilover look like nothing. Continue with a low boil for one
hour. Allow to cool, dilute to one gallon.
Chuck
* RM 1.2 00946 *
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:59:09 MST
From: npyle@n33.stortek.com
Subject: Hops FAQ/Barley Wine/Immersion Chiller/HSA/Anti-Bacterial?
Patrick Weix of Yeast FAQ fame has done me (and all of us) a big favor and
archived away the Hops FAQ to the stanford archive site. It is a new revision
from the one seen here on HBD; there is a little bit of new information, and
some minor corrections. Try the r.c.b FAQ for instructions on accessing it.
Thanks, Patrick!
**
Brian Seay asks about barley wine fermentation. I have one in the secondary
that is progressing (slowly) and I've learned a bit from it that I can pass on:
PITCH LARGE NUMBERS OF YEASTIES!!! AERATE!!! This is especially important for
high gravity beers. I think if you do this, you can use a good attentuative
ale yeast and it will work fine. DON'T USE WYEAST LONDON ALE YEAST (1028)!!!
I'd recommend the Wyeast American Ale yeast (1056) and a large pitching volume
(maybe 1/2 gallon) of active starter. If this doesn't get to the FG you want,
you can always repitch a wine or champagne yeast later (I did). My Old Lucifer
is down to 1.029 after pitching a wine yeast a couple of weeks ago (it has been
fermenting since Sep. 18) and is (finally!) starting to get kinda nice...
**
William Swetnam asks some questions about building an immersion chiller:
>1. What are the recommendations on size of the copper tubing, 1/4 3/8 or
1/2 inch. A quick stop by my local hardware store raised the question of
fittings, I'm wondering more about what may be the most efficient for heat
transfer.
I recommend 1/4" or 3/8" tubing. Whatever fittings work are the ones you need.
>2. Some commercial wort chillers that I have seen do not put the water
through an ice bath first. Is there a problem in chilling the wort
too fast?
No problem chilling too fast. My water is sooo cold that an ice bath is
definitely overkill. Its just a question of whether you want to use more water
or electricity for your cooling. I haven't compared the $$ costs.
>3. I'm planning on using 25' of tubing in my immersion section, is this
too much, too little?
Just right (of course, you'll get a hundred opinions on this; you could do a
bunch of physics and math to come up with some perfect answer...).
**
Ken Theriault writes:
>I have not heard about the "problems" with HSA and have been using the
advice from Papazian's book. Could someone explain why I should use
the "Papazian" method or direct me to a source for the information.
Check out George Fix's article in the Zymurgy Winter 1992 issue...
Jack writes:
> I think what I learned is that the anti-bacterial characteristics of hops are
either a myth or greatly exagerated in the brewing folklore. Clearly, if
yeasts and bacteria live on the hops and can innoculate a culture dish, it is
not very bacteriocidal.
It may be iso-alpha acids (from the boil) which are anti-bacterial, or alchohol
(we know this), or by-products of the (unknown, at least to me) dry-hops/wort
reactions.
> It would have been interesting if there was a control using a handful of
grass clippings or leaves to find out if it was the nature of the fermented
beer or the hops that prevented contamination.
I agree.
**
Me: What ever happened to the Kegging FAQ?
Norm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 09:45:07 -0800
From: Drew Lynch <drew@chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars
>>>>> On Tue, 16 Nov 93 08:31:51 est, thutt@mail.casi.sti.nasa.gov said:
thutt> No, you cannot buy treacle in the U.S., but that
thutt> is not the full answer. To get the full answer, we
Up until recently, (two or three weeks ago) I was able to buy small
cans of treacle and golden syrup from my local brewshop. When I last
tried to purchase it, I was told that there was some sort of embargo
on.
thutt> must first find out exactly what Treacle is. Once and
thutt> for all, Treacle is simply blackstrap molasses. You
thutt> can get this in many places in the U.S.
I have been unable to find any other commercial product which
approachs the rich flavor of the treacle I was purchasing. It may
simply be a quality issue, but that's enough difference for me. A
more accurate statement would be "If unable to find treacle,
commercially available molasses is an acceptable substitute"
Drew Lynch
Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca.
(415)965-3312x18
drew@chronologic.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 11:00:24 -0800
From: "Paul Jasper" <paul@rational.com>
Subject: Re: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars
On 16 Nov, 8:31, thutt@mail.casi.sti.nasa.gov wrote:
> Subject: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars
>
> I'm getting tired of seeing the Great Treacle Question posed and
> pondered time and time again. In HBD 1273, Bruce Beck wondered
> what Golden Syrup is (I dunno) and once again mentioned the
> mysterious Treacle. [...]
>
>-- End of excerpt from thutt@mail.casi.sti.nasa.gov
I just received a copy of "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" by Graham
Wheeler and Roger Protz (published by CAMRA books in England, it is
basically a set of recipes for duplicating various British real ales).
It says that Golden Syrup is liquid invert sugar (sucrose from cane
sugar broken down into fructose and glucose for easier fermentation).
- --
- -- Paul Jasper
- -- RATIONAL
- -- Object-Oriented Products
- --
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1275, 11/18/93
*************************************
-------
