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HOMEBREW Digest #1198
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/08/06 00:43:32
HOMEBREW Digest #1198 Fri 06 August 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Help No Hops (Major Donald L. Staib;545TG/SEF;)
Recipe Postings (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 05-Aug-1993 0953)
Old Ale (Rick Garvin(761-6630))
chili beer (LLAPV)
Starter OGs (Todd Enders - WD0BCI)
Botched Batch.... (FSAC-FCD) <dward@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
dark grain, All About Beer (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
Recipe Aid Request (Aaron Milbank)
Cheap 5 gal Carboys in Seattle (Domenick Venezia)
Barreling Beer (Philip J Difalco)
dunkleweizen & dual brews (Jim Busch)
decoction/weizens/mash techniques (Jim Busch)
Brewing Techniques, errors (Jim Busch)
Earwax contributor revisited (Domenick Venezia)
More on the Glatt Malt Mill (wegeng.XKeys)
weizen pointers (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Steve Daniel (Chuck Cox)
algebra (lyons)
Hops Schedule Equations ("Palmer.John")
Secondary Fermentation Questions ("Palmer.John")
Wyeast 1007 (Jonathan G Knight)
hop boiling times (Jonathan G Knight)
Re: sanitizing counterflow chiller (Brian Bliss)
Personal message (goldwyn)
(MIKEPOTASKI)
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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 07:01:36 -0600
From: staib@oodis01.hill.af.mil (Major Donald L. Staib;545TG/SEF;)
Subject: Help No Hops
I've been brewing hopped extract kits for years. Under the
encouragement of HBD and Prodigy BB, I started using un-hopped kits,
and DME to make great all-malt brews (for an extract brewer). The
problem is, in my haste I left out the hops from my latest brew, I
added Irish Moss to the boil and forgot the hops (thought it seemed
too easy). I'm now two days into the primary and guess I'm destined
to dry-hop the entire 5 gal batch.
I used two cans of M&F light to make up 5 gal. I have never
dry-hopped before. I have 2 ozs. each of Cascade and Chinook. Can
anyone suggest the procedure and amount for me? Oh, pellet hops is
the type I have.
Enjoy reading all the great information here on the Digest. Thanks for
any and all techniques to remedy this oversight.
The Braumeister in Layton, Utah! *
/\ *
{@@} *
+-[]-+
_[]_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 08:44:07 CDT
From: nfarrell@ppco.com (Norman Farrell)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1196 (August 04, 1993)
Item #1 Another opinion on ALL_ABOUT_BEER:
I recently picked up a couple of issues of ALL_ABOUT_BEER
recently and found the magazine a wothwhile read for
a variety of reasons. It is not however (in my opinion)
going to replace the other beer and brewing publications I
read.
Micheal Jackson's article are always a great read. When
NEW_BREWER (otherwise a good mag) did an article on
"women in the brewery" and it was about what
wimpy/pale/fruity beers you should make for ladies,
ALL_ABOUT
BEER was doing a series (not just one article) on women in
the brewing industry from distributors/ importers to
owner/operator/brewers. Kudos to ALL_ABOUT_BEER. Shame on
you NEW_BREWER.
Item #2 Wyeast 1007, (German)
>Dave Smucker, Brewing beer -- not making jelly!
>I brewed up a batch of German Dusseldorf style Alt over the
>weekend with about 20 % German wheat malt and Wyeast 1007,
>(German) and got the strongest fermentation I have ever
seen.
This is the usual experince I (and other club members, Just
Brew It.) have had with this strain. If you pitch it at the
rate you should, it will crawl out of the fermenter at the
slightest provocation. We should have such problems with
all
the yeast we use. The warmer temps you mention will only
agravate the "problem??".
Item #3 HBD #1197. Subject: Steve and Tina Daniels
chuckm@pbn73.cv.com asks about Steve and Tina.
I have met the Daniels Duo. Several times: Foam Rangers
meetings, AHA stuff, contests. They are great people and
talented brewers. They also do a mean job remodeling houses
(all in their spare time..... HA). In Foam Rangers circles,
Steve is known as "Negative Man" due a now legendary episode
where he dumped a whole batch of wort (and started over)
just because he forgot to rest the mash at 120 deg F. Hard
to argue with their track record in contests.
My impression of their contest strategy is that they have
adjusted recipes to directly respond to judges commments and
thus systematically hone their beers to "perfection". At
least until the beers are very good indeed. Please look at
LAST YEAR's zymurgy listing the AHA national winners and
their recipes. I believe you will find 3 Steve and Tina
recipes. Look at them carefully. They are in 3 different
categories (of course). To the casual inspection, at least
2 of them appear virtually identical and the 3rd one very
similar. What does this tell you??
A.) The same beer can win in more than one category at the
national level.
B.) Some style descriptions are not very useful in helping
judges distinguish among similar styles.
C.) The most important parts of the brewing process are not
captured in a recipe.
D.) Some brewers don't want to give away all their secrets
or don't worry if published recipes allow you to duplicate a
beer.
I don't honestly know the answer. It may be none of the
above. Looking at these recipes as a brewer of 15 years, I
don't see how they can be too helpful to novice brewers who
want to follow in the footsteps of true winners like Steve
and Tina.
Item #4 Temperature control
I will soon be fermenting in a modified refrigerator due to
relocating in the Houston area and I am wondering about
fermentation temperature control. Has anyone tried
immersing the thermostat sensor in the fermenting liquid. I
would assume that you would want to put the sensor in a
narrow tube with a closed bottom to prevent direct contact
with the liquid but to still get a good temperature reading.
I would also assume that the tube would be glass, stainless
steel or plastic that could be adequately sanitized. Any
ideas, drawbacks?? Is this already standard practice and I
am reinventing the wheel?
Beer is food.
Norman Farrell(nfarrell@ppco.com)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 09:55:15 EDT
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 05-Aug-1993 0953 <macneal@pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Recipe Postings
A recent posting pointed out a problem (to me anyway) with the Cat's Meow.
It's not really a problem with the Cat's Meow, rather with those who post
recipes. Someone posted a recipe awhile back which made it into the Cat's
Meow. Later, the poster comes back to HBD and admits it wasn't that good a
beer.
Why post untried recipes? It's not fair to other brewers to have to flush 5
gallons of beer representing $20-40 worth of ingredients down the drain when
they repeat your mistakes.
Recipe postings are great and so is the idea behind the Cat's Meow, but
please, wait until you've tasted the beer and can comment on it at the very
least. Even posting a recipe and saying it was underhopped or too malty, or
whatever is better than saying, I haven't tried this yet especially when you
have to come back a few months later and say it was a complete flop.
Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipement Corp.
Hudson, MA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 21:47:49 EDT
From: rgarvin@btg.com (Rick Garvin(761-6630))
Subject: Old Ale
Well, I finally got a ribbon at the AHA Nationals. It was nice beingthere
and it was a bit of a surprise. Of the three beers that I entered (Old Ale,
Barley Wine, and Imperial Stout) the Old Ale was the least good. The
recipe, which follows, was high on the IBU side. This was meant to be a
strong Pale Ale.
You say "Wow! Are the only beers you brew strongly alcoholic? Do
you have a need for lots of VERY strong beer?" Actually, I do not feel
that anything but strong beers can be done justice with the format that
AHA uses for their national. The time between bottling date and Best of
Show judging is at least 4 months! Most beer styles have passed their
peaks by then.
My experience judging American Pale Ales enforces my opinion. All of
these beers lacked fresh hop aroma. Many had cooked vegetable
aromas and flavors. None was superb. The American Wheat that was
awarded First Place was the only beer without faults. In the second
round I expect beers to compete on superlatives, not who has the least
faults. I believe that all of the problem that we tasted were age related.
The good beers in this style that we had in the Washington, DC regional
"The Spirit of Free Beer" had the fresh beer character that is the
trademark of this style.
Maybe the lesson here is enter the regionals with the American Pale
Ales. This style needs the faster turn around. Not to mention cheaper
entry fees and better prizes.
My congratulations to Thom Tomlison for a well run second round and
BOS.
And now, for some beer:
- ----------------------------------------
Garvin's Old Ale
#159
Rick Garvin
Arlington, Virginia
all-grain recipe
Recipe for 7 gallons:
14 pounds British Pale Ale malt
1 pound 40 Lovibond Crystal malt
4 ounces Mt. Hood hop pellets, 3.7% AA. Boil 70 minutes.
1 ounce Mt Hood hop pellets, 3.7% AA. Boil 10 minutes.
1 ounce BC Goldings hop pellets, 5.0% AA. End of boil.
1 tablespoon Irish Moss for last 15 minutes.
16 ounces thick slurry Sierra Nevada strain yeast (Old Dominion
Ale)
3/4 cup corn sugar to prime.
Original specific gravity: 1064
Terminal specific gravity: 1014
Brewing date: 4/19/93
Primary fermentation: 1 week, 65 degrees
Secondary fermentation and lagering: 1 week, 65 degrees
Bottling date: 5/3/93
Brewer's specifics:
Single temperature infusion mash:
Dough in malt with 1.33 qts/lb water (5 gallons) water at 165F for a
sacharification rest 154F-152F for 60 minutes. Sparge to collect 9
gallons.
Boil sweet wort for 30 minutes before adding hops. Chill and pitch.
Cheers, Rick
Rick Garvin rgarvin@btg.com
BTG, Inc. Navy Programs Division, Vienna, VA 703-761-6630
------------------------------
Date: Thursday, 5 August 93 09:05:26 CST
From: LLAPV@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: chili beer
Howdy, y'all!
I see that discussion is beginning of the use of chili peppers in beer again,
& by coincidence, I tried my own Serrano beer last night. I was brewing a
batch of Czech(oslovakian) Pilsner back in June, when the last discussion of
chilis was going on. I decided to try it out, but I only wanted a few
bottles. To do this, I tried the Ed's Cave Creek Chili Beer method, which is
adding a serrano to the bottled product. I had had Ed's before, & found it
overwhelmingly spicy. According to one HBD'er, whose name befails me, Ed's
maxed out in spiciness after 60 days. I'm sure that what I had was at least
that old, so I figured that if I drank it early enough, it would be pleasant
enough. That was very true! I bottled it 17 days ago, and the beer was
spicy, but nowhere near overwhelming. The beer flavor was not obliterated by
the pepper, but the two were well balanced. A successful experiment.
Some technical notes: I had orginally intended to use jalapenos, but
discovered that they were, for the most part, too fat to fit into the bottle.
Serranos are much thinner. According to the Scoville method of measuring
spiciness in chilis, serranos are hotter than jalapenos, but not much, so I
figured they were the way to go. They were more expensive, but it came out
to 3.5 cents a pepper, so it wasn't like I was going to go broke. I reviewed
suggestions posted in the HBD about how to make sure the chilis were clean
enough to introduce into the beer. Since I didn't like any of them, I
decided to just wash them off in good old hot water. I dropped one in each
bottle, poured the primed beer over it, & capped it off as normal. I noticed
that the bottle I had last night did not gush, as chili beers often do, plus
it didn't have any tastes that one might associate with bacterial infection;
therefore, I would assume that the serranos were clean enough at bottling
time. Something to think about.
I also used some chipotles (smoked jalapenos) in a couple of bottles instead
of serranos. I intend to try one this weekend. I'll have a review early
next week.
Since chili peppers are, technically, fruit, I was wondering if this method
would work for other fruits. Has anyone out there bottled fruit with their
beer instead of adding it at an earlier stage? I'd like to know. I want to
make a mango beer & a prickly pear beer, but don't want lots of it.
Happy brewing,
Alan, Austin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 09:16:46 -0500
From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Starter OGs
thomas ciccateri <tciccate@carina.unm.edu> writes:
> [...] At the Yeast Culturing class given by Siebel at the conference
>last Saturday...
<snip>
>They also recommended starter gravities around 1048 unless the target
>beer is high gravity.
>
Hmmm... Every starter I ever did was in the 1.045 - 1.050 range. It
just didn't seem quite logical to make a starter at 1.020 and pitch the
yeast grown therein into a 1.045+ wort. I would think it would be better
to subject a small number of cells to the initial osmotic stress of adapting
to a given wort than a much larger number of cells to a smaller osmotic
shock. One might suspect that stressing a large number of cells might lead
to some off-flavour components. On the face of it, it would appear that
the people at Siebel concur. What sort of starter gravity do they recommend
for a high gravity beer?
Todd
===============================================================================
Todd Enders - WD0BCI ARPA: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders
Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders@plains
===============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 10:15:08 EDT
From: "Darren L. Ward" (FSAC-FCD) <dward@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Botched Batch....
I messed up. I started a batch (had a good boil going, added my malt
extract, bittering hops after ten minutes) and then realized that my flight
outta town was not at 1pm, but 11:10 am, and that I hadn't packed or dropped
my son off at my mother-in-laws yet and it was 9:15 with an hour drive to the
airport. So....I turned off the heat, removed the pot and covered it and
put it in the basement. My question is "what is the best course of action
now?" Do I start it up with another boil (it was on the stove for only 20
minutes) or do I just add the next bunch of hops (ie. dry hop) and the
yeast and hope for the best??? I realize this post/experience makes me sound
kind of stupid, but, I can deal with that, some answers/suggestions would
be appreciated.
One more thing, I did this tuesday the 3rd, and today's the 5th and
I'm back.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1993 10:21:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/@mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: dark grain, All About Beer
Geotex@engin.umich.edu writes:
>I am planning to make a porter whose recipe calls for 5# of dark
malt extract. I have 3.3 # of dark and 1.7# of light.....I have
heard that I can use light in place of dark...?
I always buy light malt extract when I make an extract beer because you
can always darken it but its difficult to lighten when you start with
only dark or amber extract. For a porter I would recommend using black patent
or chocolate malt (possibly about a 1/4lb or the former and 1/2 to 1lb of the
latter, depending on your preference. IMHO, I would not use much roast since
that is more characteristic of stouts. Again, you could crush or not crush
the grain depending on your preference for color and steep it in water up to
about 180 F. Sparge this with hot water and add it to your wort.
BTW, in reference to "All About Beer", it is now produced in Durham, NC the
former beer capital of the Research Triangle !! The magazine appears to be
quite well done, both colorful and interesting, though not for the technically
oriented. There is even an article on introducing people to homebrewing.
A section called Beer Talk has 5 noted experts and one quest expert rate
5 different beers. The experts include Fred Eckhardt, the ubiquitous Michael
Jackson, Charlie Papazian, James Robertson and George Saxon. But the guest
expert really showed herself to be a beer connoisseur. Not only does she have
an uncanny ability to detect subtle flavors and aromas in beer, she makes
great Indian Food. She happens to be my wife (;^)!!
All disclaimers apply.
Andy Kligerman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 10:46:14 -0500
From: amilbank@mercury.bih.harvard.edu (Aaron Milbank)
Subject: Recipe Aid Request
I'm interested in brewing an all-grain pale ale that resembles Sierra
Nevada's Pale Ale. Any suggestions pertaining to choice of grain, yeast,
hops, hops schedule etc.?
Thanks.
Aaron
amilbank@bih.harvard.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 07:53:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Cheap 5 gal Carboys in Seattle
In the cheap carboys column,
Olshen's Bottle Supply, Inc.
923 S Bayview
Seattle, WA 98134
(206) 622-4143
Brand new, 5 gal glass carboys (they call them "bottles") for $10.67
plus $0.87 tax for a total of $11.54.
I don't know if they ship. They are just off Airport Way S, barely
north of S. Lander under the freeway.
I have no stake, financial, emotional, or otherwise in this enterprise.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 10:42:34 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd@anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: Barreling Beer
Previously, I asked for Brewers' experiences concerning "barreling" beer
in wooden casks.
With that, I received no responses.
Maybe I need to be more specific with my barreling concerns.
I have a 5 gallon wooden barrel (together with spigot) capable of holding
fluids. I plan to use my carboy as a primary fermenter (for a nutbrown ale).
When its time to transfer to bottles - I instead want to transfer to the
wooden barrel. After the beer has conditioned in the barrel for about
a month, I'm going to slam the spigot into the barrel and drink (along with
with 5 gallons worth of friends).
My concern is - Will a standard-fluid-capable-wooden-barrel be able to
withstand the pressures that the beer will produce (during the conditioning
process) over this period of a month?
Thanks in advance.
- ---
email: sxupjd@fnma.com (NeXT Mail Okay)
Philip DiFalco, Senior SomethingOrOther, Advanced Technology
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202)752-2812
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 11:08:20 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: dunkleweizen & dual brews
IN the last digest:
<From: "Andy Phillips, Long Ashton, Bristol, UK" <phillipsa@afrc.ac.uk>
<Subject: Recipe for Dunkelweizen needed
<
1. What grain should I use, and how much, to get the colour
right? I can get hold of chocolate, black patent and crystal malt,
and roast barley. I could probably roast my own malt to give
an amber malt. I can't buy Cara or (mainland) European speciality
grains. My best guess is crystal plus some chocolate.
60 - 70% wheat malt, pils for the balance except use lots of Caramel/
crystal and a small amount of chocolate. Stay away for Black at all
costs. You might try the Hugh Baird Caramel malts, I believe you
can get them in 40, 60 and 80 lovi.
<2. Hops? Hallertauer?
excellent choice, keep IBUs below 18.
<3. Yeast?
Mailorder a culture of Weihenstephan #68 (apparently this is the real
number not 66???). Several yeast suppliers have this including the
Yeast lab folks, the Yeast Culture Kit folks and apparently the newest
Wyeast weizen. Most bottled versions are useless to culture from. Weizens
that "throw a good sediment" are usually krausened with lager yeast.
<4. Temperature? 67F.
Good.
*******************`
<From: tomt@nano.sps.mot.com (Tom Tomazin)
Subject: Home Brewery Info
10 gallons....Get two SS 1/2BBl kegs and modify them with adding a spigot.
Lots of designs to pick, cooler, kegs, false bottoms....
**********************
<From: Kelly Jones <k-jones@ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Multiple Styles from single mash/boil
Does anyone have suggestions for other mixed-batch recipes, from a
single mash/sparge/boil?
Sure, how about a barley wine and a small beer from the second runnings.
Or, brew a 1.060 batch, hop it highly, split into two fermenters, dilute
one down to 1.040 and call it a bitter, ferment the other and call it an
IPA.
*************************
<From: chiz@atmel.com (Robert Chizmadia)
Subject: rebottling
2 litres into 12 oz.... Sounds like a lot of work and potential for really
flat and/or oxidized beer. If you must do this, fill a keg with CO2,
pour the beer into the keg, close and purge the keg with more CO2, shake
and purge the escaping CO2 until flat (or close). Grow healthy krausen beer
(10% of volume to be added into), mix krausen beer at high krausen and
bottle. The secondary fermentation from the krausen beer *may* be able
to absorb enough O2 to prevent oxidation. Allow 10 days to condition prior
to dispense.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 11:08:44 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: decoction/weizens/mash techniques
<From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Decoction a must?/Mashing techniques
<Jim (as well as one other poster) writes:
>Decoction is a must for all grain weizens, and is very beneficial for
>many styles of lagers, pils and bocks in particular. It is not worth
>the extra effort for ales, esp if you are using domestic 2 row pale or
<Well, despite the fact that I haven't done an all-grain Weizen, I would
<like to propose that perhaps it's a good protein rest that is essential
<for a brew with a large percentage of wheat and not necessarily a
<decoction mash that's essential. Indeed, the decoctions will help
<convert the starches in wheat, especially raw wheat, but I've tasted
<quite a few very good weizens made with temperature-controlled (step)
<mashes
If one is using a upward step mash program (the politically correct term),
you can produce a good wiezen with a wheat content up to 50%. Depending
on your lauter tun, I would never ever recommend going above this level
of wheat without a decoction. this is especially true when using domestic
wheat malt with protein levels around 15! A good protein rest is essential
in both decoction and step mashing. Now an authentic Bavarian weien must
be of at least 51% wheat malt, and this includes dilution by krausen beer
if you choose this carbonation method. So if you are adding 10% helles
krausen beer you must account for the dilution effects of the percentage
of wheat in your beer. I brew weizens of 65-70% wheat malt and a decoction
is really important. remember the taller your lauter tun, the more grain
compaction that can occur resulting in more time consuming lauters. I use a
tun that is twice as wide as the depth of grain bed.
Al continues:
<1. single-infusion -- add a measured amount of water at a calculated
temperature to bring a measured amount of grain to saccharification
temperature. Mashout is often not done and the hot sparge water is what
effectively ends the conversion.
Correct. The dominant technique in many american ale houses that do not
employ a fired mash tun (kinda the english methods)
2. step-infusion -- add a measured amount of water at a calculated temp
to bring a measured amount of grain to protein rest temperature. Add
another infusion of hot water to bring the mash to saccharification temp.
Finally, add boiling water to get the mash to mashout temp.
Correct. A typical technique in homebrewing and in breweries that do not
have a fired mash tun but want more control over the saacharafication
temps. Requires proper mineral balance to maintain proper pH. Usually
not an issue due to the "buffering" effects of the malt. A little gypsum
will suffice.
3. temperature-controlled -- dough-in (cool water) or mash-in (protein
rest temperature) with the full mash volume of water. Add direct heat to
raise the temperature to other rests.
Correct. "Upward step mash program". My preferred technique with regular
ales.
4. decoction -- dough-in or mash-in with the full mash volume and then
remove parts of the mash to a kettle in which this "mash fraction," which
is called a decoction, is heated to boiling and then returned to the rest
of the mash to raise it's temperature. There are several variations to
this (double (two decoctions), triple (three decoctions), etc.) in which
some of the decoctions are replaced by infusions or the entire mash is
moved to a kettle and then direct heat is used in place of one or more
decoctions. It is interesting to mention that decoction mashing can
be done WITHOUT A THERMOMETER, given enough experience, which I've read
is the reason that it was invented (they did not HAVE thermometers at the
time).
Almost correct. The "mash fraction" that is boiled is also raised to a
saacharafication rest temp, usually 147-158 or both, and after conversion,
is then denatured through boiling. This rest is often ommitted by home
brewers and may result in lost efficiency. Note that in a weizen decoction
program, the main mash sits at protein rest temps for over an hour while the
mash fraction is raised, held, then boiled.
Al continues:
<Yes... I did, at that place with three names (something Bakery,
something Restaurant and Widmer Brewery (although it is technically
next door)). I don't have my tasting notes here, but I remember it
was very good. I recall it had an OG of 1066 and did have a noticable
alcoholic component to the flavor. It was really the first American-
made Bock I've tasted which I feel deserved to be called a Bock.
NOT! It is an ALE!!! All of Widmers products are made with the same
Alt bier yeast. None is a lager, one of my major beefs with the incredibly
successful Widmer brewery. Even that "HefeWeizen" is the same alt yeast,
super thick and cloudy, echhh. BTW, there are some really good bocks (lagers)
made by: Gordon Biersch, Sudwerks, Baltimore Brewing, Old Dominion brewing
and Stoudts to name a few.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
<
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 11:09:12 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Brewing Techniques, errors
In re: Brewing Techniques issue 2:
Anyone else catch the mistakes in this issue? Dave Miller claims
that hefeweizens are made with S. Delbrukii, NOT! It is S. Cerveasae,
see Eric Warners book, Brewing Wheat Beers. Also, the styles column
claimed that Reinheitsgebot brewers cannot add minerals to the brew.
NOT! They cant add non natural occuring things in water like acids.
Since calcium is in the water, they can and many do add gypsum to the
mash and/or kettle. CaCl2 is also OK. Raw acid is not, hence the use
of Lacto to drop pH.
I also think Dave Miller is really really anal on cleaning his wort
chiller. Hot boiling water, with hot caustics and a rinse with hot
water works. The important point was cleaning with caustics to remove
the grim, then sanitizing with iodophor or boiling water. I know of
very few breweries that go to the extreme of an acid rinse between caustic
and sanitation. Nothing wrong, just really excessive.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:16:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Earwax contributor revisited
In the 05 Aug HBD Kevin McBride accuses the EARWAX contribution as
a sham and FORGERY based upon a finger.
I did a "telnet kepler.unh.edu 25" to make a direct connect with
with sendmail on that machine. A "VRFY dcm2" (verify) command then
identifies David C. Mackensen as the owner. A similar test of
cygnus@unh.edu yields dcm2@kepler.unh.edu. (bofur.unh.edu refused
the telnet connection). So as far as I can tell DCM owns the accounts
listed in the original post. However, I agree with Kevin that the
whole structure of the post is suspicious (sic?). Vacation indeed.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:24:04 PDT
From: wegeng.XKeys@xerox.com
Subject: More on the Glatt Malt Mill
Patrick Sobalvarro called Glatt Machining, and learned some more information
about their mill. With his permission I`m forwarding this information to the
HBD. Based on this information I mailed them a check this morning.
/Don
- --------------------------------------------
Originally-From: pgs@ai.mit.edu (Patrick Sobalvarro)
The number [at Glatt Machining] is indeed (509) 529-2084.
I talked to the guy who designed the mill, and he sounded very
conscientious. Here are some of the things he told me:
The reason it's easy to turn the handle is that the drive is geared so
you have some mechanical advantage (neither of the two other
inexpensive mills available are geared).
The rollers are 4 inches long, steel, and grooved lengthwise.
It takes about ten minutes to grind 10 pounds of malt, in his
experience, if the mill is not motorized. They designed it with the
idea of motorizing it easily, and connecting a drill to it is supposed
to be pretty straightforward.
Both ends of one roller are adjustable, on what sounded like a sort of
eccentric cam with set-screws. There is an engraved plate with a
scale on it so you can repeat your adjustment.
The bearings are injection-molded Delrin (a hard plastic designed for
use in bearings).
The construction is metal, the hopper is big, and there are two
mounting holes for attaching the mill to a table.
The current cost is $80 + $5 shipping, when it's sold directly.
They can ship COD, or wait for your check or money order.
I'm sending him a check tonight.
-P.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 11:10:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: tony@spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Subject: weizen pointers
I've brewed a few weizens on and off. I also read Eric Warner's
excellent "German Wheat Beers" and recommend it highly. These
points have been made in hbd at various times, but again:
- Warner argues for a grain bill of 70:30 wheat malt to barley malt.
That ratio is important to producing the desired beer.
- Warner argues for using a decoction mash. In addition to the
usual reasons for doing a decoction, it appears that the decoction
mash helps release into the wort flavor precursors for the
desired weizen flavor. One could do an infusion mash, but I
don't think the desired weizen character would result to the same
degree.
- You need the right yeast. One doesn't need s. delbruckii, just an
ale yeast with the right flavoring properties. It appears that
Martin Schiller and Paul Farnsworth are both sources of a good
weizen yeast, and that wyeast is test-marketing a new yeast.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 12:51:19 EDT
From: chuck@synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Steve Daniel
CHUCKM@PBN73.CV.COM sez...
>
> It seems that Steve and Tina Daniel always take a good share of the AHA
> brewing awards. Too bad they are not plugged into this digest so that
> we may pick their brains. Does anyone out there know these two..they
> are obviously doing something very right.
> ANd has anyone sampled any of their brews?
>
Steve is an excellent brewer from League City, Texas. He is also a good
friend, and we are in the process of establishing a UUCP link to
synchro. I expect Steve will be participating in the HBD soon.
Currently he does read the HBD, but can't send messages to the list.
Yes, I have had lots of his beer, it is excellent.
- --
Chuck Cox <chuck@synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 13:03:06 EDT
From: lyons%adc2@swlvx2.msd.ray.com
Subject: algebra
My apologies for the algebra remark. I know better understand
the confusion. Despite that, my remarks were out of line.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1993 11:32:27 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer#d#john@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Hops Schedule Equations
Today's homebrewer likes to dabble with different styles of beer, and to try
duplicating prize winning recipes. A hops schedule is usually included as a
part of these recipes as is the Wort Gravity and Final Gravity of the brew.
There are occasions where this information is not included or where a
homebrewer may not have a good feel for what the final brew would taste like.
The International Bitterness Unit (IBU) is a better way to define the Hop
charactor of a beer. The IBU take into account the wort gravity and the amount
of time each hop addition is boiled. This allows the homebrewer to develop a
hop flavor profile in the beer and plan for different hops to make up the
overall charactor of the beer.
Several months ago, I wrote an Excel Spreadsheet based on Jackie Rager's work
in Zymurgy, that allowed me to get a better idea of what a certain recipe's hop
additions meant to the final level of bitterness in the finished beer. As a
starting homebrewer, I had little idea of what XX IBUs/HBUs meant to what I
perceived as taste. By sampling various beers from around the world, and
pulling the bitterness data from Micheal Jackson's, *Pocket Guide to Beer*, I
was able to determine what I liked in terms of hop level. Next, the question
was, "If I want to make (someone's) recipe, how bitter will that be?" By using
Rager's equations, I could determine the IBUs and get a better idea of how I
might what to tinker with it.
Much the same idea was presented in a recent issue of *Brewing Techniques*; but
some of the equations seemed different. So, I called Karl King in Milwaukee to
ask him about that. He's a nice guy, and had done his homework. We had both
discovered the several mathematical errors in Jackie's article and had the same
questions about Wort Gravity adjustments. Rager had stated in Zymurgy that if
the Wort OG is less than 1.05 then the Gravity adjustment is Zero. This
returns a Gravity of 1.00 to the IBU equation. Karl King had determined that
it should be (1 point whatever), the OG; and I agreed. In addition, the Hop
Utilization data presented by Rager was added to by King, and he used two
linear regressions to describe that data in his article in Brewing Techniques.
Karl got the additional utilization data points from the public library
archives in Milwaukee, which seems like a good source, when you think about it.
So, below I am listing the equations first presented by Rager, and later
revised by Karl King and myself. I was originally going to UUencode my Excel
Spreadsheet, but when decoded, it produced an unreadable (corrupted) GIF, so
forget that.
*The International Bitterness Unit*
The IBU is based upon utilization of the hop oils, specifically the Alpha
Acids. The alpha acids are released into the wort during the boil and also
into the beer during Dry Hopping. Unfortunately, the diffusion rate i.e.
utilization rate, data is not available for Dry Hopping, so any contributions
to the total IBUs, however small, from Dry Hopping will not be discussed here.
The equations expressed below take into account the change in Utilization rate
with time, and make use of the influence of wort gravity to that rate. NOTE:
The 7462 constant is for US units; for grams and liters, use a constant of
1000.
An IBU can be expressed by the equation:
IBU = Wt *%util * %alpha * 7462 / Vol ttl / GA
where Wt is the amount of Hops in ounces, Percents are decimals, Volume is the
total recipe volume, and GA is the Adjusted Gravity.
*The Adjusted Gravity*
The OG needs to be adjusted if it is greater than or equal to 1.05. Rager
gives the example that if the OG for a 5 gallon recipe is 1.048, but he's only
boiling 2.5 gallons then his apparent gravity is 1.096, or twice the OG.
(That's twice the .048 part) Therefore, the 1.05 condition needs to be met for
partial boils. This is done with the following equations. (VT is total vol,
VB is Boil vol, GB is Boil Gravity)
GB = ((VT/VB) * (OG - 1)) +1 ie. multiplying the degrees of extract by the
volume ratio.
Then, if GB is greater than 1.05, GA = 1 + (5 * (GB - 1.05))
Otherwise, GA = GB.
*The Utilization Rate* (from Karl King)
If the boiling time is less than 23 minutes, then %U = (0.64 * time) - 2.62
Otherwise, %U = (0.4 * time) + 3
*Doing it Backwards*
What if you say to yourself, I would like most of the hop charactor from
Northern Brewer, Some from Fuggles, and some from Saaz? Well the IBU equation
can be worked backwards for the amount of Hops that need to be boiled for a
given time.
Wt = (% of total charactor) * (Target total IBUs) *VT / %U / % alpha / 7462
Where the % of the total hop IBUs is expressed as a percent. Ex. 60% of 50
IBUs total from Northern Brewer would be 0.6 * 50 * VT etc. The time boiled is
expressed as the percent utilization from the equations above.
I hope this will be useful to all of you as well as correct the mistakes in
Zymurgy.
John Palmer
Space Station M&P
Huntington Beach CA
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1993 11:37:32 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer#d#john@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Secondary Fermentation Questions
I have several novice-type questions about Secondary Fermentation.
Background: All-malt unhopped extract brewing, adding hop pellets, bottled
H2O.
1. Is racking to a secondary fermenter only/mostly used for Ale yeasts,
Lager Yeasts, or both (ie. yeast is not the criteria)? When (and other
adverbs) do I need to rack and secondary ferment?
2. According to Dave Miller, he racks when the bubbles slow down to 1/ 30
seconds (I think). What span of time has passed (typically) 3 days, a
week?
3. Okay, approx 3 days - a week has passed in the primary fermenter (white
bucket) and I am racking to a glass carboy (6 gal). At this time I would be
adding my dry Hops. Do I need a Blow-Off Tube? Do I need the Brew-Cap?
4. After secondary ferm'g of 2 weeks, I will rack to my bottling pail and
prime. Is oxygen damage my main concern, or is lambic still a problem?
JP
Space Station M&P
PS. Thanks for all the responses about alcohol types.
Knowledge is good.
Time flies like an Arrow, Fruit flies like a banana. -Groucho
If it doesn't have an acronym, it's not important. -JP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1993 13:44:11 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: Wyeast 1007
There's been a lot of interest in Wyeast 1007 the last couple of issues.
This is one I haven't used myself, yet. I know it's the "Alt" yeast, and
Russ Gelinas says it makes a nice Porter. Russ, or anyone else out there,
I'd be interested in more discussion and/or recipes which are a nice match
for this yeast.
TIA,
Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1993 13:56:46 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: hop boiling times
I would compare the effects of differently timed hop additions to the use of
herbs and spices in certain dishes. For example, I discovered a while ago
that reserving a large portion of the chile powder/cumin/etc. until the end
of cooking a pot of chili, the presence of these spices was dramatically
enhanced. The dish is not really "hotter," although people will tell you it
is; it is really the aromatic presence of the spices which can be
overwhelming.
Similarly, if you've ever used wine as an ingredient in spaghetti sauce, you
know that if added at the beginning of the simmer, there will be a certain
something in the end product, but the winey-ness will not be obvious. On the
other hand, if you add it towards the end, the wine will be more detectable
as wine. Or if you make a quick-cooking (20 min or so) tomato sauce for
pasta with wine in it, the presence of the wine will be more pronounced than
if simmered in a sauce for a few hours. Or, if you wanted a pronounced basil
note in a sauce, the way to get it would be to add the basil toward the end
of the simmer.
When making beer, I have found that some of my more pleasing efforts have had
the benefit of mutiple hoppings, for example, 60, 30, 15, 0. I'm not into
calculating IBU's (yet?), I'm just "cooking" when I make beer - but I'd say
the principle is the same: hops are to malt, etc., what herbs are to "main
ingredients" in cooking (meat, legumes, whatever).
Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 16:11:21 -0500
From: bliss@pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Re: sanitizing counterflow chiller
hartman@varian.CSB.Varian.COM (John Hartman) writes:
>I must say first of all that one needs a hot water pump. About 5 minutes
>before the end of the boil I setup the counterflow chiller: To do this I place
>a pick up tube in the boiler and attach its output to the input of my hot water
>pump. The output of the hot water pump is then attached to the input of my
>counterflow chiller.
Depending upon what type of pump it is, it could easily be oxidizing your wort.
bb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 93 17:18:08 EDT
From: goldwyn@aol.com
Subject: Personal message
I am the president of the Beverage Testing Institute Inc., an independant
product testing service serving the beverage industry since 1981. I am also
host of America Online's Wine & Dine Online, which is also the home of a
lively homebrewers section. Shawn Ludford is on BTI's staff, he is a brewer,
and he is working with the brewing section. He has just subscribed to HBD.
For several months I have been a subscriber to HBD.
Within a month we expect AOL to give us the ability to easily upload ASCII
files in bulk and upload them into a searchable database.
Shawn and I impressed with the wealth of info in HBD, and we are testing a
method of splitting HBD into separate messages or groups of threaded messages
and putting them into a searchable database for posting on AOL. Do you have
an objection to us doing this? We think that it would be very helpful.
Naturally, we would give HBD proper credit and publish the address. Please
let me know what you think.
By the way, no sense in sending two HBDs to the same office, so please delete
goldwyn@aol.com from the subscriber list, and make sure ludford@aol.com stays
in.
Drink in good health,
Craig Goldwyn, Host, Wine & Dine Online
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1993 21:07:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: MIKEPOTASKI@delphi.com
Subject:
SUB HOMEBREW MICHAEL POTASKI
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1198, 08/06/93
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