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HOMEBREW Digest #1178
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/07/09 00:19:10
HOMEBREW Digest #1178 Fri 09 July 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Cheap carboys (chris campanelli)
attenuation definitions (Chris Pencis)
Low SG -- what might the cause(s) be? ("Bret D. Wortman")
attenuation/hop nobility/2.5 gal kegs/cask priming/infection (korz)
Hops vs. Protein and Hop Storage (Mark Garetz)
sugar in beer (Bryan L. Gros)
high-gravityVSpartial boils/carboys/Miller's AAUs/thermostats/pts-lb-gal (korz)
(Bruce=Kiley)
HB Digest Back issue helpKK (BILLOK)
Hop bags/mash Ph (Rick Garvin)
Keeping Soda Kegs Cool ("Manning, Martin P")
Re: KQED Festival ("Mark S. Nelson")
Home Brew U BBS: CHANGES!! (drwho2959)
Specialty Products (geotex)
water/racking tip/belgian ale (Brian Bliss)
Schlitz (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Copper Manifold System ("Tom Stolfi")
Siphoning ("Anderso_A")
Hops and hot break (Bill Othon.LinCom)
Duval, Fuller's ESB and Full Sail Ales (John Brooks)
Hunter Airstats are a myth! (David Hinz)
Summary of a large scale home system (Ford Prefect)
More on "sparging" and light extracts (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 08-Jul-1993 1228)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:52 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Cheap carboys
The cheapest place I've found (so far) for carboys is St. Pat's of Texas.
They sell seven gallon carboys for $10.00 (add $5 for S+H) and it comes
in one of those styrofoam egg/pod things. Although most homebrewers
prefer the seven gallon carboy because of the extra headspace, I buy them
because I like to wear the way-cool styrofoam pod on my head when I take
a shower. You should try it some time.
I don't have their number handy. I seem to remember seeing their ad in
the Zymurgy classifieds. If you can't find it there, email me and I'll
dig it up.
chris "mushroom head" campanelli
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 14:33:58 CDT
From: chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: attenuation definitions
I recieved a number of responses on my attenuation question and I
realized that the definition which I left hanging on HBD was weak at
best. Thanks go out to Paul Jasper, Dick Dunn, Chip Hitchcock, and
Spencer Thomas for their quick responses (in addition, thanks to George
Fix for the info which Spencer Thomas quoted to me and by me here).
good luck and good beer,
Chris Pencis
From: Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:13:35 EDT
Really, it's slightly more complex than that (isn't everything ?-).
There's "apparent attenuation" and "real attenuation". The
difference comes about because alcohol has a specific gravity less
than 1 (about .8). Real attenuation is the percent of sugars
converted to alcohol. So, if you had a 10% (by weight) sugar solution
(about 1.040), and got 100% real attenuation, the resulting specific
gravity would be about 0.991 (corresponding to about 5% alcohol by
weight). The apparent attenuation of this brew would be 122% !
George Fix published a set of equations relating apparent and real
attenuation and alcohol content last year. To wit:
> A = alcohol content of finished beer in % by wt.
> RE = real extract of finished beer in deg. Plato
>
> Since A and RE are generally not known to us, additional approximations
> are needed. The following are due to Balling, and have proven to be
> reasonable. Let OE and be defined as follows:
>
> OE = original extract (i.e., extract of finished wort in deg. Plato)
> AE = apparent extract (i.e., measured deg. Plato of finished beer).
>
> Then
>
> RE = .1808*OE + .8192*AE,
>
> and
>
> A = (OE-RE)/(2.0665-.010665*OE).
>
The "tricky part" here is the expression of the sugar content in
degrees Plato. This is a fancy term for % sugar by weight, and
corresponds roughly to "degrees gravity" divided by 4. That is, a
1.040 wort has an extract of 10 degrees Plato.
He goes on to calculate an example:
> To take Walter's specific case, first note that from Plato tables an OG of
> 1.045 is equivalent to
>
> OE = 11.25 deg. Plato,
>
> while a FG of 1.010 is equivalent to
>
> AE = 2.5 deg. Plato.
>
> Therefore,
>
> RE = .1808*11.25 + .8192*2.5 = 4.08 deg. Plato,
>
> and
>
> A = (11.25 - 4.08)/(2.0665 - .010665*11.25) = 3.68 % wt.
The apparent attenuation is 75% (from 1.040 to 1.010), the real
attenuation is (11.25 - 4.08)/11.25 = 64%.
=S
======================================================================
|Chris Pencis chips@coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin Robotics Research Group |
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 13:55:32 CDT
From: "Bret D. Wortman" <wortman@centurylub.com>
Subject: Low SG -- what might the cause(s) be?
Greetings, all. I'm a novice who has just started my second batch (a
5 gallon batch that has managed to foam over the fermentation lock on a
6 1/2 gallon carboy, but I digress).
Both of my first two batches used kits -- syrup -- and no sugar. The
first used a 3.3lb Munton & Fison Pilsner kit with 1.4 lb Light Amber
Malt kicker. The second used 1.8kg Muntons IPA Bitters with 1.4 lb
Lilght Amber Malt kicker.
In each case, the SG after sparging and after getting the total volume
of liquid to ~5 gallons was around 1.015. This seems awfully low to
me, as it'll result in beer that has (at most) around 1.5% alcohol
content.
What might I be doing wrong, or what should I be looking for? I
carefully noted the 5 gallon mark on my carboy so I'm sure I'm not
making more than I think I am....
WordMan
+------------------------+------------------------------------------------
| Bret D. Wortman | "I want to live shipwrecked and comatose,
| wortman@centurylub.com | Drinking fresh mango juice.
| wortman@decus.org | Goldfish shoals nibbling at my toes,
| NLC Events Team Chair | Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun."
+------------------------+------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 14:40 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: attenuation/hop nobility/2.5 gal kegs/cask priming/infection
Chris asks about attenuation and then posts that he's got it fugured out.
I just want to mention that this is APPARENT ATTENUATION -- that is, the
percentage difference between the original gravity and the final gravity.
The reason that it is only the APPARENT attenuation is because the yeast
is making alcohol which is lower specific gravity than water. Therefore,
to determine the actual attenuation (which can be quite a bit less than
the apparent), you must distill-off the alcohol and replace it with an
equivalent amount of distilled water. Don't bother though, because virtually
all attenuation values and final gravities you see in homebrewing books,
here and in magazines are apparent ones.
************************
Jack writes:
> >From: korz@iepubj.att.com
>
> >Styrian Goldings are neither noble nor are they Goldings, actually.
> The only three noble hops (this was confirmed from various sources
> in the Brewer's Forum) are Hallertauer, Tettnanger and Saaz.
>
> I think a definition of "noble" would be appropriate. Doesn't sound like
> anything a botonist could get a hold of.
>
> Just what does it mean?
It's not a botanical term, rather a brewing term simply made-up by (I believe)
German brewers. Hallertauer, Tettnanger and Saazer appear to have simply
been grouped together quite a while ago and labeled "noble hops."
***************************
Robert writes:
>I have located five 2.5 gallon kegs at a used restaurant supply house.
>Two of them have screw-on caps with tapered rubber washers, while three have
>clamp-type lids with smaller rubber gaskets/o-rings.
Grab them. They are very rare -- you can always replace the fittings you
don't like with ones you like (i.e. you can switch them all to ball-lock).
>There is also a combination of fittings on the tanks themselves, with some
>having pins, and others having grooves for snap-rings.
I suspect that the grooved ones are actually ball-lock. The pin ones are
pin-lock. Coke uses pin-lock and Pepsi uses ball-lock. I personally like
the ball-lock ones because they are easier to recondition (you can simply
use a 12-point socket for the fittings, whereas for the pin-lock you need
to buy ($40) or build yourself a tool to remove the fittings.
>The kegs are pretty crudded-up, but I think they will clean. Are there any
>fine ponts to be aware of before sinking money into these kegs?
Check the seams inside and out -- be careful to release all the pressure
before removing the lid -- you could injure yourself quite seriously if
you don't. If the seams are all pitted and cracked, you may have to pay
more to have them re-sanititary-welded than to buy new ones. You really
should replace all the rubber. If the lids don't have overpressure release
valves, you should get some. There were some posts about two or three
years ago that said that the Cornelius company will exchange lids without
valves for new lids. All my lids had valves, so I didn't keep the post.
There are many hidden rubber gaskets that you should replace. There are
eight including the gasket on the overpressure valve. The issue is not
one of sanitation, but more so of soda (root beer, grape) smells that
would enter your beer. Some have suggested boiling, but I've tried it
and I could still smell root beer in the rubber. To completely recondition
a keg with new rubber (including a new overpressure valve -- the rubber
does not come separately) will run you about $10, but I feel it's worth
it. See a recent HBD for a post I authored which explained where the
gaskets were.
**************************
Keith writes:
>I have a friend who is interested in racking his brew in a wooden (5
>Gal.) cask. Can anyone recommend appropriate amounts of priming sugar
>and/or an information source for the required details?
I suggest using about 1/4 to 1/3 cup corn sugar.
*************************
Jeff writes:
>Fat Wanda's Brewery & Recording (my basement) is under attack by vicious
>bacteria. I've had a recurring house infection that I can't seem to get
>rid of, in spite of the scourings and bleach treatments. Now it's
>gotten to the point I can't even get an uninfected starter!
I suspect it is in the air. You could try to get an air cleaner and keep
all the doors closed and the air conditioning off while you brew (give
the dust some time to settle and the air cleaner to do it's stuff).
Alternatively, you could wait till fall, when your air will go back to
being less microbiologically active.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:04:51 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz@hoptech.com>
Subject: Hops vs. Protein and Hop Storage
Al writes in response to my post:
:Mark writes (in reference to not using hop bags for boiling hops):
:>Also, there are many
:>benefits to be had to the wort by having the hop particles (whole or pellet)
:>thrashing around in the wort during the boil (help with protein coagulation
:> - aka the hot break) is the main one.
:
:Indeed hop particles will help with protein coagulation, but I feel that you
:should wait till after the hot break to add the hops in the first place.
:The last time I recall reading about this is in a post from Stuart somewhere
:around HBD 1150. My contention, as that mentioned by Stuart, is that the
:hops will do too-good a job coagulating proteins *AROUND THEMSELVES* thereby
:reducing the utilization. Now, if you wait till after the hot break, I
:suggest that there will still be some coagulation of proteins around the
:hops, but not nearly as much as if the hops were added before the hot break.
:
:Why does this matter? Well, the theory is that the protein coagulated
:around the hops will reduce utilization. I have not done side-by-side
:tests of this, but I do recall a significant increase in hop utilization
:when I began to wait for the hot break before adding the hops. I did not
:put the two together till someone on the HBD mentioned it.
I don't buy this. Number one, if it really did boost utilization, you can
bet the big breweries would be using it. I've never seen any reference to
it. Number two, I've never noticed any protein coating the hop petals
or particles and even if it did, it wouldn't matter cause there isn't any-
thing of value in there anyway. Now if we're talking microscopically
around the resins, maybe there's a possibility. But the biggest problem I
have with it is waiting for the hot break. Besides the fact that a lot
of newbies don't even know what it is or what it looks like, I don't want
to keep sampling my wort to see the break so I know when to add hops.
Then I'd have to figure out how many boil minutes remained and adjust my
hopping rate accordingly in real time. What if I didn't get a break until
30 minutes into 1 hour boil? I'd be getting a *lot* less ultilization from
the shorter boil time than any better utilization advantage I might have got
by waiting.
:
:>Anyway, I recommend you do use a secondary and rack carefully. The two step
:>racking process should leave all of the pellet particles in the trub layer on
:>the bottom. This is instead of the hop bag. The hop bags are great for dry
:>hopping, but I don't like them for the boil.
:
:I disagree. I do just the opposite. I use a hop bag for boiling primarily
:to avoid the problems of having to remove the hops from the wort later,
:either as you pour the wort into the fermenter (my screen kept clogging
:and that made it a real pain!) or when racking. I just compensate by
:adding 10% more hops. I don't use a hop bag for dryhopping but only use
:whole or plug hops because they float. I've never had any problems
:siphoning the beer out from under the whole hops.
Floating hops does not make for good oil utilization. The best method is
to keep the hops suspended in the middle of the beer using a bag and weight
system (tie the weight to the drawstring instead of putting it in the bag).
This is what Anchor does and I have found it works well for me and other
brewers I know. I don't know of any commercial brewers that boil their
hops in a bag, but they do use them for dry hopping. But what works for
you works for you.
:
:>Also, your racking techniques
:>will improve with time. The key is to have a reliable way to suspend the
:>end of the racking tube just above the trub layer. I use a rubber stopper
:>that fits in my carboy with two holes in it: One for the racking tube and
:>the other I use to force CO2 into the carboy (at *low* pressures) to push the
:>beer into the secondary (I use a soda keg for the secondary).
:
:then later:
:>BTW, I have found
:>the "orange racking tip" thingy to be essentially worthless. Ditto
:>Fermtech's $2 racking tube clothespin.
:
:Interesting, but I've had no trouble with the orange tip on the end of my
:racking cane -- I tip the carboy with a stack of coasters or a block of
:wood and then gently lower the cane into the lowest part of the carboy.
:I then use masking tape or a rubber band to make sure the cane doesn't
:move. I discard the first two cups or so and the beer runs clear from
:there on. Perhaps you are not getting a good cold break and your trub
:layer is very deep. Then again, you've got hops in your trub and I don't.
:On a typical 5 gallon batch, my trub layer is about 1 inch thick, say
:between 0.75 and 1.5 inches. Just for the record, I have not tried
:Fermtech's racking tube holder.
So you get a couple of cups of trub? Isn't this exactly what the orange
racking tube tip is suppossed to prevent? I guess it doesn't work for
you either! :-) I suggest you try leaving it off once and I'll bet your
results will be identical. My trub layer isn't any deeper than yours, and
I don't have hops in it. My strainer works fine. I also use a "settling
tank" between the kettle and the primary. I use my old plastic fermenter
with the spigot in the bottom. I cool the wort, pour through the strainer
into the bucket, put the top on and let the cold break settle out. Then
I attach a hose to the spigot and run the wort into my carboy through a
homemade "wort squirter" to help aerate it. I usually only have .5" of
trub at the end of the primary. And for the record, the problems I found
with Fermtech's tube holder were that 1) The tube tended to come out of
molded holder clip and 2) The spring didn't hold the clip to the carboy
steady enough with the weight of the racking hose (works fine with just
the racking tube, but that isn't very practical). I rubber banded the heck
out of it to get it to work and ended up in the same place as my clothespin,
but wasted $2 in the meantime.
Jonathan Knight asked about hop storage:
I was the one that recommended an "investment" in a home vacuum sealer,
and, BTW, also recommended CO2 or nitrogen purged mason jars as an
alternative. The reason I recommended a home sealer is that they not
only are nice for storing hops, but are also useful for sealing other
things like DME, grains and minerals. Anyway, what's more important
in Jon's post is the whole issue of hop storage. I'm working on a longer
post that will address this issue and will post it in a few days.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:15:48 PDT
From: bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: sugar in beer
Sugar added to certain beers (british ales and belgian ales) have
been discussed here before. Was there a consensus as to the best
thing to use that is available in the states? Brown sugar? What
is best for a brown ale versus a belgian double or triple? In the
belgian ale book the author says the brown color of the double is
from the sugar, so I'm not sure what the homebrewer is to do.
Is rock candy anything more than just sucrose? If so, would it
dissolve in the boil?
Thanks.
- Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 15:21 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: high-gravityVSpartial boils/carboys/Miller's AAUs/thermostats/pts-lb-gal
JC writes:
>I'm interested in brewing a high-gravity all-grain brew. I'm currently
>limited by my pot (5gal) and stove. Can anyone suggest a high-gravity
>recipe? I can boil up to 4gal of liquid... I do have a lauter-tun (Zapap
>type) that works adequately.
Although I picked JC's post (sorry JC), there are a number of posters who
seem to be confused by this "high-gravity" brew thread. There's a big
difference between partial boil (which could also be called high-gravity
boil) and high-gravity ferment. I believe that the original post that
started this thread asked about what kind of compensation had to be made
for a high-gravity ferment. Well, a number of brewers have posted that
a higher gravity ferment will result in a beer with more esters. I have
found this to be true, but have not tried diluting the resulting beer
into a medium-gravity beer. I think what JC is asking about (as well as
a couple of others) is a partial-boil recipe. One in which, say, 3-gallons
of wort are boiled and then this is diluted into a 5-gallon batch in the
fermenter. You see, there's a big difference between diluting before
fermentation and diluting after fermentation. In either case you need to
use some math to figure out how much hops to add to achieve the bitterness
you want in the final beer. I suggest (although they are being disputed
by some) that Jackie Rager's numbers in the Hops Special Issue of Zymurgy
are still very good if you compensate, as I do, for hop bags and whole
hops (adding 10% more if you use a hop bag and 10% more again if you use
whole or plug hops in stead of pellets).
In both cases (partial boil and high-gravity ferment) you need to pick
the IBUs you want and then use 5-gallons for the volume in the formula.
When it comes to figuring the boil gravity, calculate it for the boil
volume. For example: 6 lbs of Northwestern in 3 gallons of water will
give you about a 1080 gravity boil. Use that for the gravity adjustment.
Dr. Bob Technical's Amazing Wheel of Beer is great for approximating
the contribution of a large variety of grains (beware that some extracts
contribute a bit more points some less).
*******************************
Rich writes:
>I'm looking to purchase a few used carboys. I've tried some of the
>local bottled water companies but they seem to use plastic these
>days. The homebrew shops I've visited want $16 to $18 for a new
>one. Can anyone suggest a different alternative?
Some water companies offer a choice of glass or plastic. Call around.
******************
Tony writes:
>After 5 all grain batches, I re-read Miller's "complete" book to see if it
>made more sense now (it did). I have a question about hop rates in a couple
>of his recipes (pages 213, 214). The format of these recipes is:
>
> xxx AAU hops
> 3rd addition 1 ounce (count only half of the AAUs toward your total)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he means is that a shorter boil will extract less bitterness from
the hops you add. What he means is that this late addition of hops will
contribute less to the total bitterness of this beer.
************************
Carl writes:
>I am picking up a chest freezer this weekend, and I will need to put a
>controller on it for fermentation/lagering/etc. While I've seen mentions
>of controls by Hunter, Johnson, and Williams in the past, I would like to
I have two Hunters and I'm very happy with them. Indeed they only go down
to 40F, but I will never serve any lower than that and if I need to lager
lower than that, I would just use the fridge thermostat for the temps below
40F. The big advantages of the Hunter are the lower price, ease of use,
solid-state sensor (a wire connects the sensor to the controller) and the
4 minute cycle delay (to protect your compressor).
***********************
Bob writes:
>As part of my neverending work to improve the spreadsheet program I use to keep
>track of my brewing I decided to include an Extraction Rate Calculator (tm) to
>automatically compute an extraction yield based on the o.g., total weight of
>grains used, gallons of beer produced (pts/lb/gal). I then decided to go that
>one better and include a calculation for the maximum extraction rate based on
>some yields found in Dave Miller's book-Brewing the World's GreatBeers (p.
>129). These yields in alpha order are:
.
.
.
>Malt extract (dry) 45
>Malt extract (syrup) 35
Well, I feel that dry extracts vary between 42 and 45 pts/lb/gal and there
is quite a bit more variability in syrups (from 32 up to even 40 for
Northwestern.)
***************************************************************************
DISCLAIMER: I *do* own a homebrew shop/mailorder house, I *do* sell the
Amazing Wheel of Beer, I *do not* yet sell either of the three thermostats,
but when I do I *will* carry all three and finally I carry a *variety* of
extracts but use Northwestern a lot, so I happen to know it's pts/lb/gal
offhand and know it's higher than most.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 16:40:35 EDT
From: Bruce=Kiley%SIG%SNI%sig@sni-usa.com
Subject:
Does anyone have a set of plans of detailed description on how to build beer
cases out of wood?
Please reply to brucek@sig.sni-usa.com
Thanks in advance,
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 16:43:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: BILLOK@delphi.com
Subject: HB Digest Back issue helpKK
H
P
P
P
P
P
P
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:16:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: garvin@grebyn.com (Rick Garvin)
Subject: Hop bags/mash Ph
korz@iepubj.att.com writes:
> Indeed hop particles will help with protein coagulation, but I feel that you
> should wait till after the hot break to add the hops in the first place.
> The last time I recall reading about this is in a post from Stuart somewhere
> around HBD 1150. My contention, as that mentioned by Stuart, is that the
> hops will do too-good a job coagulating proteins *AROUND THEMSELVES* thereby
> reducing the utilization. Now, if you wait till after the hot break, I
> suggest that there will still be some coagulation of proteins around the
> hops, but not nearly as much as if the hops were added before the hot break.
>
> Why does this matter? Well, the theory is that the protein coagulated
> around the hops will reduce utilization. I have not done side-by-side
> tests of this, but I do recall a significant increase in hop utilization
> when I began to wait for the hot break before adding the hops. I did not
> put the two together till someone on the HBD mentioned it.
There is another issue at stake here. These protein molecules are
contributors to haze. We all like our beers to clear without filtering,
so we want to use all of the tools we have to coagulate these proteins.
If you place your hops in the wort before the boil and the hot
break occurs you will not get the full benefit of the hot break. The hard
resins from the hops will bind with protein molecules that would have
otherwise coagulated without their aid.
For me the extra coagulation power is secondary to any added efficiency
in utilization. I am also an avowed user of pellitized hops. I do not
put my hops or my dates in bags.
Cheers, Rick
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1993 05:16:40 -0600
From: "Manning, Martin P" <manning#m#_martin_p@mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Keeping Soda Kegs Cool
For keeping kegs cool , there is a simple, low cost alternative to a bucket of
ice- insulate! All you need is a larger version of the foam plastic
single-can insulators that are popular among the canned beer crowd. The
insulator I use is made from a polyethylene foam sleeping pad, of the type used
by backpackers. These can be purchased at sporting goods stores for about ten
dollars, and are big enough to make a couple of insulators, if you get one
longer than about 55 inches. Use contact cement to join the ends of a piece of
the pad, which has been cut to the propper width (the height of the keg), and
length (about 3/16" shy of having the ends meet when it's wrapped around the
keg). To use the insulator, just slip it down over the top of the keg when you
remove it from cold storage.
Martin Manning
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:51:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark S. Nelson" <mnelson@eis.calstate.edu>
Subject: Re: KQED Festival
I have one very serious objection to the way this festival is being run.
That is the fact that it only runs for three hours. Who came up with that
brilliant idea?
I have always found that the best brew/food festivals are the ones that
allow you plenty of time to relax and enjoy the offerings. To charge
$30.00 for what is billed as the largest event of its kind, then to allow
barely enough time to get started, is pretty bad.
Personally, I'll save my money for the smaller festivals that give you for
fun and enjoyment.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
...And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart
"I drink therefor I am!"
Mark S. Nelson nelsonm@axe.humboldt.edu mnelson@eis.calstate.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 21:44:04 EDT
From: drwho2959@aol.com
Subject: Home Brew U BBS: CHANGES!!
Announcing a new "campus" of the popular BBS dedicated exclusively to
Home Brewing and Beer Appreciation:
HOME BREW U. - MIDWEST
(708)705-7263, N,8,1
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 23:16:57 EDT
From: <geotex@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Specialty Products
Does anyone have any experience with Specialty Products Inc.? They have
their "SuperBrau" malt extracts for $80 for 12 3.1 lb. cans. They are
%100 malt. Seems like a good deal to me. Any thoughts.
please reply by e-mail or post if you think it's of interest to others.
Alex Ramos
geotex@caen.engin.umich.edu
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 01:24:08 -0500
From: bliss@pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: water/racking tip/belgian ale
In HBD #1171 Mark Garetz writes:
> Forgive me for a bit of a tangent here, but this is kind of like why there
> aren't really any good formulas for predicting bitterness based on all the
> variables. The reason is that commercial breweries don't change their
> process often.
...
> So do they care to have a formula that they can plug in lots
> of variables and get a reasonably accurate bitterness calculation? No.
> So we don't have one either (yet).
A lot of it has to do with your water, and how it affects hop
utilization. Boil Time / AAU tables are a start, but don't
take water qualiity into account.
- ------------------------------
>Mark Garetz <mgaretz@hoptech.com> writes:
>err a bit on the high side when setting the tube depth. BTW, I have found
>the "orange racking tip" thingy to be essentially worthless.
gotta disagree with this one. the orange racking tip thingy gets
me at least 1/2" more clean wort out of a 5 gal carboy before it
starts picking up trub (out of the post-boil pre-ferment wort,
which doesn't cake down).
- ------------------------------
>I think the concensus is that brewing Belgian-style beers is tough to do,
>and I'm sure that anyone who's seriously worked on this has had more than
>their share of disappointments.
I can't seem to brew high-gravity ale that doesn't turn out belgian-like.
High ferment temp is the big thing. Put an electric blanket around
your fermenter for the first day or two. Add a pound of sugar or
two, any type (but different tastes). If you add finish/dry hops, saaz
works best. It's a lot easier to enjoy the irreproducible results than
it is to worry about consistency. Relax and don't worry, because
belgian ales are not well-defined and you can get away with a lot in
a competition.
prosit!
bb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 8:07:23 EDT
From: "Peter J. Burke" (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Schlitz
Schlitz took an award at the GABF because it is a great
beer. Just because it is not a microbrewery doesn't
make it garbage.
My two cents.
Pete Burke
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1993 08:16:08 GMT
From: "Tom Stolfi" <WAUTS@cwemail.ceco.com>
Subject: Copper Manifold System
From: Tom Stolfi WAUTS - CWE1IIN
To: Jeff Benjamin BENJI - CWEMAIL
Subject: Copper Manifold System
Jeff,
Since the HBD has been filled with the copper manifold/easy masher/zapap
thread I thought I'd send you a note thanking you for your help.
I have been using a copper manifold system for my two last batches (it works
works very well :-)) that is based on your design. I only changed one thing,
instead of soldering a copper 1/2" to 3/8' reducer I purchased a larger
(I can't recall the size) vinyl tube that fits over the 1/2" pipe. The
vinyl tube needs to be heated in hot water in order to fit it on the
copper pipe but creates an airtight fit. Using a large plastic hose clamp,
with adjustable click stops, on the tightest setting that allows liquid to
flow lauters six gallons in 45 minutes. The only drawback is that you need to
brace the tubing where it comes out of the standpipe or it bends over. I used
some copper wire and it worked OK but I am trying to come up with a better
solution. I thought you might be interested in any modifications of your
system. Thanks.
Tom Stolfi wauts@cwemail.ceco.com
Commonwealth Edison Co Waukegan, IL
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 93 04:04:57 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter@seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Siphoning
Message Creation Date was at 8-JUL-1993 08:44:00
Greetings,
I recently brewed a relatively light batch which is
still sitting in the primary fermenter. I plan to run an
experiment on this beer. I will split the beer into two
separate carboys for secondary fermentation. I will have a
bed of raspberries in one of the carboys in the attempt to
create a fruit beer without loosing the fruit aroma. In the
other secondary carboy the beer will ferment w/o any fruit.
This way I can compare and determine the exact contribution
of the raspberries.
Now the questions:
1. Is 2 lb raspberries/gallon of beer a reasonable amount?
2. Should I use a Campden tablet overnight in the
raspberries to prevent introducing any new bacteria in the
secondary fermenter?
3. Siphoning: If I siphon first into one carboy and then
into the second, I'm afraid I may end up with differing
beers. I would think the first carboy would get the lighter
beer and the second a heavier beer (and more trub remnants).
I was thinking of a "Y" siphoning connector. The beer
being siphoned would hit the "Y" connector and then branch
out down two paths into the two carboys. I would end up
using 3 lengths of 3/8 " tubing along with the "Y" connector
to accomplish the siphon.
Does anyone know if this would work, or is it doomed to
abject failure?
If it would work, does anyone know where I could
procure a "Y" connector?
TIA
Andy A
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 08:25 CDT
From: othon@ial7.jsc.nasa.gov (Bill Othon.LinCom)
Subject: Hops and hot break
Darren Aaberge discusses hops and hot break, and I have some
questions:
1) from the FAQ file, what and when is hot break?
2) do you wait for hot break before adding bittering hops (the
hops usually added at the beginning of the boil). Or are we
talking aromatic hop addition here?
T-54 days till legal brewpubs in Texas....
-Bill
/\ |__| /\
===================================== / \ | | / \
Bill Othon <othon@ial7.jsc.nasa.gov> / ---| |--- \
Tetherologist \ /
LinCom Corporation - Houston Division \ /\/\ /\/\ /
(713) 483-1858 \/ \ / \/
\/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 07:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brooks <jbrooks@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Duval, Fuller's ESB and Full Sail Ales
In reply to the HBD inquiries of Domenick Venezia (6/30/93) and Tim Born
(7/1/93) about recipes, I offer the following:
Duvel - Ingredients: pale malt; Saaz and Styrian hops (30 B.U.); top
fermenting yeast; brewing sugar for bottle fermentation; O.G. 1.070,
degrees Plato 17.5; 8.5% alcohol by volume; unpasteurized.
Fuller's E.S.B. (export) - Ingredients: pale ale and crystal malt; flaked
maize; caramel and brewing sugar; Challenger, Northdown and Target
bittering hops, Goldings aromatic hops; O.G. 1.060, degrees Plato 14.8
(ale that is kegged/casked for domestic consumption is O.G. 1.054);
alcohol by volume 6.0%.
Redhook's E.S.B. is reputed to be a take-off on Fuller's (and at 50,000
barrels this year, successfully so) - Ingredients: 2-row Klages malt,
caramel malt (60L); Willamette and Tettnanger hops; O.G. 1.054; 4.3%
alcohol by weight; no pasteurization; another interesting point about all
of Redhook's products is that carbonation comes from their primary
fermentation in airtight vessels (no secondary fermentation, bottle
fermentation or CO2 injection).
Full Sail Golden Ale - Ingredients: Oregon 2-row Klages malt, caramel and
Cara-pils malt; Oregon Tettnanger and Halletauer hops.
Full Sail Amber Ale - Ingredients: 2-row pale malt, caramel and chocolate
malts; Kent Goldings and Willamette hops.
The source for the info on Duvel and Fuller's is "The European Beer
Almanac" by Roger Protz, 1991, Lochnar Publishing, Scotland. The sources
for Redhook and Full Sail are those companies published product sheets.
I would be interested any more detailed info anyone may have on Full Sail
Amber (O.G.'s, B.U.'s, etc.). When I downloaded Cat's Meow, I found
a reference to Full Sail Amber in the index, but not in the text. Please
post or reply to private e-mail.
John Brooks
jbrooks@carson.u.washington.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 10:14:34 CDT
From: hinz@memphis.med.ge.com (David Hinz)
Subject: Hunter Airstats are a myth!
Greetings.
I've just recently started lagering, and I found it impossible to find
a Hunter Airstat anywhere in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. Everyone I talk
to at home supply type stores (Menards, etc) give me that look of "Yeah, right,
temperature controller...uh huh....sure....that's OK" You know, that look.
Anyway, if someone could e-mail me an address or phone number for Hunter, or
a mail-order source for these things, I'd appreciate the heck out of it.
On another note: I've got 33 pounds of strawberries ordered, anyone have a
good recipe for a strawberry ale, wine, mead, or whatever? Thanks!
Dave Hinz
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 09:10:13 -0700
From: sag5004@yak.ca.boeing.com (Ford Prefect)
Subject: Summary of a large scale home system
I guess that I have waited long enough for the replies to trickle
in... The executive summary was lots of "me too" replies :-)
Basically when you scale up in size you need to think long and hard
about the following:
Anything >1bbl will you will probably need pumps (or a very tall
gravity system :-) And need to make sure you can move around large
quantities of hot fluids in a timely maner.
How to handle large amounts of grain, floorspace and other bits. e.q.
How do you crush and handle and dispose of a the huge amount of grain
you will be using.
I was warned to not forget about losses (of product) in the transfer
and handling process.
One person wrote that he would write up his experiences in brewing in
a 2bbl brewhouse when he get a spare moment. Look for it in an upcoming
issue of the HBD... (sorry, I don't know when)
"It is not as easy as one might think to design a plug and play system of
this size." I know that the system that I use now has sort of evolved to
what it is now, and the problem with doing this in a large scale is that
it gets expensive fast.
- ---------
A couple of people replied with stuff that they have for sale. All
has been posted in the HBD
A guy in Ohio has a 112 SS vessel, and another guy Arizona has a few
leftover pieces (kegs, boiler and vessel, and a fermenter) [Sorry I
am not posting their names because I didn't ask permission too]
- ----------
It appears that boiler geometry is use whatever is convenient to
fabricate or buy. You should stick to using standard sizes of
stainless sheets ( basically 4x 6,8,or 10 feet) because this stuff is
$$$ and you don't want to waste any.
I was warned against getting the lauter geometry 'too vertical' and was
given a rough number of 1-3 feet is a good depth for a grain bed.
Sorry, about the disjointed ramblings, but this is what I know at this time.
I was really hoping that there would be a journal article I could read, but
no such luck :-( I will report back periodically if I learn anything
new.
Thanks to
Scott Wisler (swisler@c0431.ae.ge.com)
Jim Busch (busch@daacdev1.stx.com)
Kinney Baughman (baughmankr@conrad.appstate.edu)
Ray Brice (ray@hwr.arizona.edu)
and to the many nameless others that I accidently deleted.
Later,
ps. I am getting married on the 24th so I wont be reading my mail for
a couple of weeks after that.
stuart galt boeing computer services
sag5004@yak.boeing.com bellvue washington
(206) 865-3764 or home (206) 361-0190
#include <standard/disclaim.h>
I don't know what they say, they don't know what I say...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 09:42:18 PDT
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 08-Jul-1993 1228 <macneal@pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: More on "sparging" and light extracts
>Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 12:10:00 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR@conrad.appstate.edu>
>Subject: Bits and pieces
>Hi ya'll!
>Keith mentions:
>>Charlie Papazian in TCJOH refers to the dumping of the wort through a strainer
>>into the fermenter to remove the hops and any other particulates as sparging.
>And I disagree with the esteemed CP on this. While I'm not one who
>thinks you need to rack off the cold break before fermentation begins,
>I do believe you need to get as clear a runoff as possible off the hot
>break when going to the fermenter.
I was merely trying to point out that CP called this sparging which is
probably what the original poster meant when he used the term.
By the way, it seems to me that you agree with CP on this. The "sparging" of
the wort into the primary seems to remove most of the hotbreak material along
with the hops.
>>This might be the source of the confusion. He also recommends scooping out
>>the specialty grains just prior to the wort coming to a boil.
>Hmm... The conventional wisdom here is to remove the grains at 170
>degrees to avoid leaching tannins into the wort. Waiting until just
>before the boil is too long.
This sounds like a momily to me. I haven't noticed an astrigency problem with
beers I've made to date using this method and I know of several other brewers
who use this method with success.
>Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 10:39:32 PDT
>From: nexgen!bart@olivea.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Bart Thielges)
>Subject: storing kegs and sanitizing fermeter lids
>Here's a few of questions for the experts :
>1) I haven't been able to find a good way to immerse my fermeter lid (a
> 5 gallon white plastic bucket with snap on lid) in the sanitizing
> solution. I can distort the bucket and jam the lid in part way,
> but this could scratch the sides of the bucket and besides does
> not totally immerse the lid. Also, I don't have any other vessel
> larger than the bucket. I've been splashing the sanitizing solution
> all over the lid in the hopes that the contact time is long enough.
> Is it ? Do I need to buy a larger soaking vessel ?
I simply fill the primary up to capacity and snap on the lid and let it soak.
Just before I'm ready to go, I wipe down the lid with a sponge that has been
soaking in the sanitizing solution. Seems to work OK so far. Wiping stuff
down was recommended by a local supply shop. I think the physical action
of the wipe would offset the minimal contact time.
- ------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 12:43 EDT
>From: LYONS@adc2.adc.ray.com
>Subject: Light (Lovibond) Extract
>I seem to recall some HBDers complaining that the American Eagle
>dry extract product had significant amounts of corn sugar mixed in
>with the malt. This would certainly make a light beer, but it may
>be better to stay with a quality extract, such as M&F or Laaglander,
>which claims to be all malt.
I hadn't heard that. I've used American Eagle for a few batches and noticed
no characteristic cidery taste. It also claims to be all malt. The use of
corn sugar might explain the low price, though.
Keith A. MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1178, 07/09/93
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