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HOMEBREW Digest #1180
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/07/13 00:16:57
HOMEBREW Digest #1180 Tue 13 July 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Needs More Malt! (Jeff Frane)
Irish Moss (Jeff Frane)
Drinking around Lancaster, PA ("Anderso_A")
PET bottles for beer (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 09-Jul-1993 1421)
In defense of Jim Koch, pt 2 (Jim Busch)
Liquid yeasts (lyons)
strike temp (aguado e)
All Grain Red? ("Mark S. Nelson")
Starview Brew in York,PA ("Ben Ricci, PA")
St. Pat's of Texas (chris campanelli)
Wine Grapes (Jack Schmidling)
seeking info (Sandy Cockerham)
BEER & SWEAT #5: 8/21/93 (WESTEMEIER)
Yeast Storage (Steve Casselman)
Re: Low SG readings (Bill Szymczak)
Spicing for Wheat Beer (Hardy M. Cook)
6oz bottles / Mail order Belgium imports ("Rex K. Perkins")
NO2 is NOT used in Guinness! (12-Jul-1993 0931 -0400)
Saison Recipe Needed (Jamie Ide 12-Jul-1993 0947)
Re: IPAs & Basements (Jim Busch)
Looking for... (fjdobner)
2 holes (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
it's in the air (Russ Gelinas)
Nitrogen / sugar (Ed Hitchcock)
Re: Burners for Culturing (Jeff Benjamin)
Low SG/hop bags again/siphon tip (korz)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 09:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Needs More Malt!
Wortman (what a great name!) has a problem:
> Both of my first two batches used kits -- syrup -- and no sugar. The
> first used a 3.3lb Munton & Fison Pilsner kit with 1.4 lb Light Amber
> Malt kicker. The second used 1.8kg Muntons IPA Bitters with 1.4 lb
> Lilght Amber Malt kicker.
>
> In each case, the SG after sparging and after getting the total volume
> of liquid to ~5 gallons was around 1.015. This seems awfully low to
> me, as it'll result in beer that has (at most) around 1.5% alcohol
> content.
>
> What might I be doing wrong, or what should I be looking for? I
> carefully noted the 5 gallon mark on my carboy so I'm sure I'm not
> making more than I think I am....
>
>
Bret, your problem is easily resolved: use more malt!!!!! Instead of
using a 1.4# kicker, use two (2) 3.3# cans of malt. Your SG will then
fall into the normal range. Really.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Irish Moss
I'm interested in hearing about people's experience using Irish Moss as
a kettle fining agent. I had been using it off and on for years,
without being able to notice any difference when I remembered to add it.
Eventually, I stop bothering all together, and since I was using 1056
yeast almost exclusively, I hadn't any problems with clarity.
Recently, however, I returned to using an old friend, a culture from a
local microbrewery, and discovered that my beer was no longer as clear
as it should be (thanks to Dr. Fix for pointing this out rather
definitely). A local brewer mentioned to me that they were switching
back to flaked Irish Moss from the powder and was appalled to learn I
wasn't using it at all. The ever-helpful Dr. Fix not only sent me some
IM (enough to brew many hectoliters) but a copy of a paper he'd done
analyzing the use of Irish Moss and its effect on hot break, head
retention and body. Very interesting.
So I used Irish Moss in my most recent brew, and the results were pretty
amazing -- a very dramatic hot break, quite different from what I'm used
to, some strange behavior early in the fermentation (the yeast clumped
into weird shapes near the surface of the wort -- George says this is
normal), and what appears to be extremely good flocculation (earlier
than would be expected, and more thorough).
So, what's different from the past? Well, for one thing, the "standard"
homebrew texts (e.g., Miller & Papazian) suggest adding 1/4-1/2 tsp for
a five-gallon batch. Miller pretty much says it's a waste of time,
although it might be useful in British infusion style mashes. He says
he hasn't observed any changes in other batches.
Well, I'm not surprised. According to the data George offers, and the
recommendations from Siebel, the optimal addition is 1/8 gm/liter (I
hate those figures, but wotthehell), which turns out to be _about_ 5
gms/10 gallons or 2.5 gms/5 gallons. Five grams of dried, flaked Irish
Moss is almost exactly one _TABLESPOON_ -- for those who are
kitchen-illiterate, a Tablespoon = 3 Teaspoons. So the correct addition
of Irish Moss for 5 gallons of beer = 1/2 Tablespoon, _three times_ the
amount suggested by Miller & Papapzian.
Quite a difference.
Another recommendation was given me by the local brewer, and followed,
which was to rehydrate the Irish Moss before adding it to the kettle.
In fact, he suggested rehydrating it a day in advance, but the five
grams turned back into seaweed in 1/2 hour or so; this presumably
reduced the time necessary for it to go to work in the kettle. It also
meant that the volume was considerably more than a Tablespoon when it
was added.
Frankly, I'm convinced already but will reserve final, passionate
adoration of Irish Moss until the beer is in a glass.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 93 08:09:28 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter@seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Drinking around Lancaster, PA
Message Creation Date was at 9-JUL-1993 13:02:00
Greetings,
I recently found out that I will soon be traveling to
Lancaster, PA. The first thing I have to do is figure out
just where Lancaster is located. The second task is to find
out what brew-pubs or good-beer-bars are in the general
area. Rand-McNally will help me with the first task, I'm
hoping HBD can help me with the second.
TIA
Andy A
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 14:23:25 EDT
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 09-Jul-1993 1421 <macneal@pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: PET bottles for beer
Paul Gibbs asks about the dangers of using PET in beer. Personally, I wouldn't
worry about it. I've seen some British beers bottled in 2 liter PET bottles.
PET is (obviously) widely used in softdrink packaging.
Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 17:24:14 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: In defense of Jim Koch, pt 2
Since I posted a bit last week on Jim Koch's brewery in Jamaica Plains
I received some email disputing the assertion that this place could
possibly be producing quality beers, much less "world class" ones. As
I noted in my earlier post, I was not personally at the brewery so I
was passing on second mouth information. Since then I have been able
to learn some more details about the facility that Jim has installed at
Jamaica Plains (near Boston).
The brewery is a 15 BBl system manufactured by The Pub Brewing Co. It
consists of twin copper jacketed fired kettles, one being the usual mash
tun/kettle, the other being a full sized decoction kettle. This in
itself is unusual in that a brewer would spend money on a full sized
decoction kettle since one usually only needs to decoct about 1/3 to 1/2
of a mash volume. There is a dedicated lauter tun and I believe a
dedicated whirlpool. One of the "showpiece" aspects of this system is
that Pub has engineered a bottom driven motor, as opposed to the normal
top mounted drive system seen in many breweries throughout the world. Pub
is apparently quite proud of this development, and probably justifiably
so. The report I received indicated that some of the Unitanks are new and
some are old. The system was installed in March, 1993.
The "triple bock" that I previously noted is made from an OG of 40 Plato!
I believe triple is an understatement here (the first ever from Jim & Co!).
It is indeed aged in old Jack Daniels whisky barrels.
Word is that the brewing staff is knowledgable and enthusiastic about the
beers being produced. This is certainly not the same Ringwood system that
was in this facility prior to the Pub system and as such I would say to
those in the Boston area, go try it out and let us know what you think.
(one of these days I have to get to Boston....)
Now I realize some of you could care less if Jim Koch brews beer in gold
lined satin covered vessals, you wouldnt touch it with a ten foot sample
glass and thats OK, its your consumer rights. I am no fan of Jim Koch's
bastardization of the Lambic name, nor of his blatent misrepresentation
of his achievements at the GABF, but I am merely pointing out that in
this brewery we have someone who has gone the extra step of putting in a
serious system and producing some seriously different and interesting beers
and that is good for craft brewing.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 16:15:48 EDT
From: lyons%adc2@swlvx2.msd.ray.com
Subject: Liquid yeasts
When fermenting with liquid yeasts, is there a simple way to use the
slurry on the bottom of the secondary for pitching into a new batch?
Any comments on the amount to use would be helpful. Also, is there
a method for storing such a slurry for later use?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: engebret@ucssun1.sdsu.edu (aguado e)
Subject: strike temp
Has anyone derived an accurate equation for calculating strike temperatures?
I seem to recall a discussion of this a few months ago on the HBD, but can't
remember if an actual equation was posted. I have been experimenting with
various mash viscosities and such an equation would be very helpful.
Also, what are the dangers of a slight overshoot with a single-step
infusion mash? Will a couple of degrees above 156F hurt anything?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Engebretson
engebret@ucssun1.sdsu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark S. Nelson" <mnelson@eis.calstate.edu>
Subject: All Grain Red?
I've been searching around lately for an all grain recipe for a read ale.
I've also gone through the Cat's Meow, but with no luck (unless I
overlooked something). Can someone please e-mail your favorite recipe?
It would be very much appreciated.
BTW, I have edited and have available a Word Perfect 2.0 (mac) version of
the Cat's meow if anyone would like a copy. Or, I can try to upload it to
an ftp library if enough people would be interested. I have not deleted
or changed anything, just cleaned it up for easier use.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
...And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart
"I drink therefore I am!"
Mark S. Nelson nelsonm@axe.humboldt.edu mnelson@eis.calstate.edu
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jul 93 05:55:13 EDT
From: "Ben Ricci, PA" <71331.3435@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Starview Brew in York,PA
In the event there may be York, PA area homebrewers lurking in the
shadows...Mike Knaub, President of the York Area Homebrewers Association is now
selling homebrew supplies through his business: Starview Brew. Mike has a
decent selection of leaf hops, malts (syrup and dry), adjuncts and Yeast Lab
liquid yeasts on hand. He's building his inventory all the time too. All you
need is water! <g> Starview Brew is in Mt. Wolf, PA (51 Codorus Furnace Road)
and can be reached at 717-266-5091.
Ben Ricci
71331.3435@compuserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 08:30 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: St. Pat's of Texas
The requests for the phone number of St. Pat's of Texas have been
overwhelming. Again, they sell a seven gallon carboy for $10. Their
number is (512) 832-9045.
chris campanelli
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 11:42 CDT
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Wine Grapes
I am looking for a place within a reasonable drive of Chicago to either pick
grapes or purchase fresh picked grapes or juice.
The Maltshop in Wisconsin who usually has high quality wine grapes
anticipates no useful harvest this year because of the cold Spring.
Anyone have any ideas?
js
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jul 1993 13:44:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Sandy Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L@Lilly.com>
Subject: seeking info
I recently saw info about a new Japanese dim sum restaurant/brewpub opening in
the San Francisco area. The problem is I can't remember where I saw it!
Also, I am seeking info on brewpubs in Hawaii.
I would appreciate it if anyone knowing about either of these 2 things could
send me a post by e-mail.
thanks, sandy c.
From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L (MCVAX0::RX31852)
To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 18:28:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: WESTEMEIER@delphi.com
Subject: BEER & SWEAT #5: 8/21/93
*********************
* BEER & SWEAT #5 *
*********************
WHAT:
The 5th Annual Beer & Sweat is a huge summer party of, by, and for
homebrewers. Sponsored by a consortium of homebrew clubs, it is one of
the largest gatherings of homebrewers on the planet, and it is of
interest to all who live in the midwestern USA.
Please come if you are within driving distance of Cincinnati, and
bring a keg or two of your best homebrew to share.
Beer & Sweat is absolutely free. There is no admission fee of any
kind, except for a $5 fee if you wish to enter a keg in the competition.
WHEN:
Saturday, August 21, 1993. Setup will be between 3:00 and 5:00 pm.
WHERE: At the Drawbridge Estate (home of the Oldenberg
microbrewery). About five miles south of downtown Cincinnati, in
Ft Mitchell, Kentucky. Take the Buttermilk Pike exit from Interstate
71/75 and go east one block.
Room rate at the Drawbridge is $70 a night, for up to four persons.
Call 606-341-2800 for reservations, and mention Beer & Sweat to get
this special rate and one of the block of rooms set aside for us.
WHY:
Beer & Sweat is unique in that it is 100% homebrew oriented. Unlike
the usual gathering of brewers, where everyone keeps opening their
cooler and pulling out another example of a favorite commercial beer,
we stress the homebrewer's craft exclusively.
Beer & Sweat is also almost entirely devoted to DRAFT homebrew.
For example, last year we had almost 30 kegs of top quality homebrew
on hand, almost all containing 5 gallons each. There were also a few
10 gallon kegs and a few smaller kegs, but with over 150 homebrewers
in attendance, we still had a quantity of beer sufficient to produce
the expected quantity of sweat.
NEW LOCATION THIS YEAR:
Beer & Sweat has grown to the point where we can no longer feel
comfortable mingling with the general public. Based on a number of
suggestions, we have secured practically the exclusive use of
the Garrison facilities. Slightly separated from the main Drawbridge
complex, Garrison has an outdoor pool, tennis courts, and recreation
area. There are also plenty of ice machines and soft drink vending
machines. Next door to the Oldenberg brewery itself, and close to the
area's biggest and best brewpub, J.D. Brews, this is the perfect spot.
The Drawbridge will have food booths set up (of course you can bring
your own), and we plan to set up a large tent for an outdoor eating and
drinking area.
COMPETITION:
We encourage entries to the B&S Open Draft Homebrew Competition.
We are considering making this an AHA sanctioned competition next
year, so this is kind of a "wet run" to see how well it goes.
For a $5.00 entry fee, you can enter a keg (no bottles) of ANY style
beer. Get it set up (bring your own CO2 etc.) between 3 and 5 pm, pay
the registration fee, and judging will take place at 5:00 pm.
Any BJCP judge who would like to participate should contact Ed Westemeier
in advance via e-mail at: westemeier@delphi.com (or by phone at
513-321-2023). No points, just great draft beer. Next year we probably
WILL have points available.
First prize in this competition will be a PhilMill donated by the
Listermann Mfg. Co. and second prize will be a Phil's Lautering System
from the same source. Third prize is a pound of hops. A prize will
also be awarded to the club with the highest average point total.
After the formal judging of registered entries, ALL kegs present will be
eligible for the popular vote competition, and a prize will also be
awarded for that.
BJCP EXAM:
The BJCP Exam will be conducted at 10:00 am SHARP. Anyone wishing to join
the ranks of the "official" beer judges should register no later than
July 31. Test fee for first time exam takers is $40, and $30 if you have
taken it before and want to raise your score. Contact Keith Wilbourn
by phone at 502-422-6954 or fax him at 502-422-6955.
MORE INFORMATION:
General questions should be directed as follows:
e-mail: westemeier@delphi.com
phone: Allan Moellmann at 513-232-9182 anytime during July
phone: Chuck Boyce at 513-531-8076 after 5 pm weekdays
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 15:20:46 PDT
From: sc@vcc.com (Steve Casselman)
Subject: Yeast Storage
This question was recently presented.
> I recently purchased a back issue of Zymurgy (Gadgets and
>Equipment). After reading an article on preserving and freezing
>yeast by Maribeth Raines Ph.D. I decided to give her suggestions
>a try.
> I only wanted to store my yeast for a few weeks to a month
>so I followed her directions for storing the yeast in the fridge.
>I mixed yeast from the primary (British #1098) with an equal
>amount of a sucrose solution mixed at a ratio of 1 cup of water
>to 3/8 sucrose. I understand that the article was mostly about
>freezing yeasts, but she also suggests,"On the other hand, if you
>plan to use the same yeast within the next few months you can
>save the yeast from your primary fermenter and store it with an
>equal volume of sucrose (it's cheaper than glycerol) in the
>refrigerator.(Zymurgy Special 1992, p. 69)"
> The new solution was placed in the fridge in a sanitize and
>closed glass jar. In a few hours I noticed that the solution
>was fermenting away. So, over the last few days I have been
>venting the jar to keep it from exploding. This situation seems
>quite dangerous. Most of all, I was surprised to see an ale
>yeast ferment at 38 degrees. Should I take that to mean that I
>have a wild yeast fermenting away beside the British yeast
>strain.
>
> Any suggestions are appreciated. Am I doing something
>
>wrong? Any suggestions or amendments to the article.
>
>STEVE
The well documented producure will allow yeast to be stored
for as long as two years. The principle behind it is at 4
degrees C invertase becomes inactive. This means there is
no way for the yeast to metabloize the sucrose. If you are
getting fermentation there are a few things you might not
have made sure of: 1) you can have no other surgers but sucrose,
common errors might include; taking the yeast from the
primary before it is completely fermented, using a low
purity sucrose (it might have glucose in it for example),
and 2) the solution must stay under 4 C at all times.
In your current position I would put your jar in the
refrigerator with the lid on loosely to allow any sugers
other than surcrose to ferment out then close the lid. If
this does not work than your refrigerator may not be keeping
a constant cold temp.
Your problem, of course, could also stem from the introduction
of some wild beast - in which case I would not recommond
repitching the yeast.
I hope this helps.
Steve Casselman
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 15:42:22 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Low SG readings
In HBD1178 Bret D. Wortman asks:
> Both of my first two batches used kits -- syrup -- and no sugar. The
> first used a 3.3lb Munton & Fison Pilsner kit with 1.4 lb Light Amber
> Malt kicker. The second used 1.8kg Muntons IPA Bitters with 1.4 lb
> Lilght Amber Malt kicker.
> In each case, the SG after sparging and after getting the total volume
> of liquid to ~5 gallons was around 1.015. This seems awfully low to
> me, as it'll result in beer that has (at most) around 1.5% alcohol
> content.
> What might I be doing wrong, or what should I be looking for? I
> carefully noted the 5 gallon mark on my carboy so I'm sure I'm not
> making more than I think I am....
There are several possibilities.
1 Are you taking your gravity readings when the wort is 60 deg. F?
Taking readings at higher temperatures will give lower than
expected readings. For example, if your reading of 1.015 was
measured at 110 deg. F your actual SG is 1.023. If the temperature
of the wort was 140 deg. F your actual SG would be about 1.027.
2 Your hydrometer is bad. A simple check is to measure the SG
of water at 60 degrees F. It should measure 1.000 (or very close).
3 Assuming that by "sparging" you really mean pouring and straining
the wort into your carboy, do you vigourously shake the carboy
to get a homogeneous mix. (I'm assuming that since your just
beginning, your not boiling all 5 gallons at once and are mixing
your boiled wort with cold water in the carboy.) If so, it is
conceivable that the higher density wort has settled to the bottom
and you are measuring the gravity of the lower density stuff
which has stratified on top.
By the way you should have gotten gravities of about
1.034 for 3.3 lbs Canned Malt Extract + 1.4 lbs DME
and
1.038 for 1.8 kg (3.97 lbs) Malt extract + 1.4 lbs DME.
for your 2 batches.
Here, I've used the empirical formula
SG = 1.000 + (lbs of DME + 0.8 * lbs of Malt Extract Syrup) * .0084
for a 5 gallon batch. This assumes 42 points for DME and 20% less
for syrup.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 17:17:19 EDT
From: hmcook@boe00.minc.umd.edu (Hardy M. Cook)
Subject: Spicing for Wheat Beer
I'm planning to make my first spiced wheat beer next week and would appreciate
any help I can get on the spicing. I'm considering adding the following
during that last five minutes of the boil to my standard beer wheat recipe:
1/2 oz. Orange peel
1/2 oz. Crushed whole coriander
1/2 oz. Chamomile
1/2 oz. Whole Hallertauer hops
I have decided on these ingredients but would appreciate any suggestions as to
ratios, weights, and time to add to the boil.
Hardy Cook
HMCook@boe00.minc.umd.edu
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 93 22:26:35 EDT
From: "Rex K. Perkins" <70651.1611@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: 6oz bottles / Mail order Belgium imports
To: >Internet homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
I am about to start my first mead and was recently pondering the problem of
bottling the stuff. As it is going to be mighty strong, I won't really want to
drink it 12oz at a time. It will also be sparkling, so re-sealable screw caps
won't help either. So, the natural solution would be for smaller bottles.
I was once given a case of European lager in small bottles. I think these were
225ml (8oz), but I'm not sure, so I know they exist. I'm sure I have seen
smaller bottles (6oz?), but I can't think where.
My question is: Where can I get 6-8oz bottles from? I see many home-brew
suppliers carry 12 and 22oz sizes, but no mention of anything smaller. Does
anyone know of a source of such bottles? I guess I'd be looking for 2-4 cases.
************
Reading the current issue of CAMRA's What's Brewing I see several UK companies
offering Belgium beers by mail order. Are there such companies in the US? The
selection of such beers available locally (central MA) is very limited and I
would like to expand my knowledge of these beers. I could ask the UK companies
if they would send to the US, but I expect I would get hit on both UK and US
taxes that way.
Cheers,
Rex K. Perkins
70651.1611@compuserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 06:37:18 PDT
From: 12-Jul-1993 0931 -0400 <ferguson@zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: NO2 is NOT used in Guinness!
>Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 15:36:26 -0700
>From: Leo Reilly <zanadu@well.sf.ca.us>
>Subject: Guinness
>
>I am sure that this has already been answered but I have been unable to find
>an explanation in previous postings.
>
>1. Does the NO2 cartridge in the canned Guinness affect more than just the
>head of the brew? It seems to me that the canned Guinness is alot smoother
>and less bitter than the traditional bottled stuff.
Guinness _does_not_ use N02; it uses N2, nitrogen. The canned stuff is
all together different then the stout in the bottles. IMO, the canned stuff
is light and the bottled stuff is heavy. Guinness names the can stuff "Draught"
and the bottled stuff "stout."
>2. What does the nitrous oxide actually do to the beer? I.e. how does it
>interact with the brew to give the creamy head and the smoother taste.
again, N2; my understanding is that the N2 facilitates much smaller bubbles,
hence making that creamy head.
>3. Is any other brewer using the NO2 cartridge? If so, who?
Murphey's stout; same design as guinness. not sure if this is available
in the US yet; I've brought some back from Ireland w/ me in the past.
>5. Are any home brewers using the NO2 cartridge for their homebrew, or
>contemplating trying it?
No, but i have thought about buying a second CO2 cylinder and having it filled
with 40% N2 and 60% CO2 for some winter stouts out of my keg. Has anyone
done this with success (ie: brewed a stout and dispensed it w/ a nice creamy
head ala guinness?).
JC Ferguson
Digital
Littleton MA USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 06:56:15 PDT
From: Jamie Ide 12-Jul-1993 0947 <ide@film.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Saison Recipe Needed
I'd like some advice on formulating a saison recipe. Better yet, a
tried and true recipe.
I've got a bottle of Saison Dupont (new to the US, I think) that I can
culture from -- does anyone know if I'll get the fermenting yeast?
I've also got a culture from La Chouffe, which I believe is a similar
style.
I'd appreciate any help on the saison style, I haven't been able to
find much information on it. I'll summarize any e-mail replies I get.
Jamie Ide ide@studio.enet.dec.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 10:22:29 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: IPAs & Basements
John Mare makes some excellent points regarding English IPAs:
<From: cjohnm@ccit.arizona.edu (John Mare)
<Subject: India Pale Ale's
<In a recent discussion on India Pale Ales (IPA's) the assertion was made
<that these are all high gravity ales. Conventional wisdom tells us
<that these ales were brewed at high gravity to allow them to travel well
<(ie. by ship to India), and our US beer competitions persist in defining
<IPA's as medium to high gravity (OG 1050 to 1065). It is interesting to
<observe, however, that in their land of origin IPA's are not in fact high
<gravity ales. Some of the truly outstanding examples of this type which I
<tasted on a recent beer tour of The British Isles include "Palmer's IPA"
(Dorset, OG 1039, ABV 4.3%), "Robinwood IPA" (Yorkshire, OG 1040, ABV 4.2%),
<"Younger IPA" (Edinburgh, OG 1043, ABV 4.5%), "R&D Deucher's IPA"
<(Edinburgh, OG 1048, ABV 3.9%), and "Thompson's IPA" (Devon, OG 1045, ABV
<4.6%).
This is absolutely true. In fact I had troubles locating a IPA as high
as 1.046 OG. Even "strong ales" tend to be around 1.052 and are regarded
with fear from many pub goers. It is really sad to find this attitude,
since as a result these beers tend to be some of the oldest and less crisp
cask ales to be found. Of course, the higher gravity gives them a slight
edge on shelf life. Note how much residual sugar is in the R&D Deucher
IPA at only 3.9 ABV with an OG of 1.048. This can be true of the ordinary
bitters too.
Gene asks about basement ferments & sanitary conditions:
<From: Gene Zimmerman <ezimmerm@hp.uwsuper.edu>
Subject: Farmer/Engineer etc
<How many people brew in their basements? Unless it's an enclosed room,
<I can't see as it would be very sanitry at all. Most of them are a _little_
<damp, dark, and although not warm, a constant temp. I think someday I'll
<have a brew set up in a basement, but I've always thought of sheet rocking
<off a room and putting ceramic tile on the floor and waist coat
Well, I ferment in my basement, in an open SS vessal. I do leave the heavy
lid ontop, and remove it to skim yeast. I still have numerous cobwebs over-
head and it could be much cleaner but it works fine. Sure, Id love to have
sheetrock and tile too, but Im too busy spending money on SS vessals to do
the tile work. The key is always lots of clean healthy pitching yeast. You
would not believe how dirty some english and belgium breweries are.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 09:20 CDT
From: fjdobner@ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Looking for...
I need to reach Craig Vandeventer, Paul Sherrill and Hyrum Laney.
Please contact me at the above e-mail address or call me at
(708)979-5124. Thanks. Your e-mail adresses do not seem to work.
This is homebrewing related.
Frank Dobner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 14:34:00 +0000
From: DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01@mailhub.cs.itc.hp.com
Subject: 2 holes
In a recent post to Mark at Hoptech in response to a query as to where
one might obtain a two hole stopper for carboys, Mark was kind enough to
tell me of how he ended up drilling a second hole himself. He said he
used a regular drill, but it chewed up the rubber. Not having a suitable
drill bit, I tried an alternative, a 1/4 inch piece of brass tubing lying
about, which I filed to an edge on one end and chucked up in a hand drill
on the other. I lubricated the tube with a drop of water. The thing worked
beyond my wildest hopes and made a hole cleaner than the original. Altho
the tube was 1/4 inch, the hole it made was smaller such that a piece of
1/4 inch copper tubing fits perfectly. The tube also just fits the inside
of my keg system CO2 line so I now have a way of starting the syphon system
on carboys for trasnsfer to kegs. Lab types I know have stoppers available,
but none of the local homebrew suppliers do :-).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 11:13:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: it's in the air
For those of you with possible airborne infection problems, one way
to clean the air is to allow steam from boiling sparge water or wort
to fill the brewroom. As the steam settles out, it will take airborne
particles down with it, much as rain clears out smog. The heat of the
steam may also help in sanitizing.
Russ Gelinas
esp/opal
unh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 12:30:10 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH@ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Nitrogen / sugar
Leo Reilly writes:
>I am sure that this has already been answered but I have been unable to find
>an explanation in previous postings.
>
>1. Does the NO2 cartridge in the canned Guinness affect more than just the
>head of the brew? It seems to me that the canned Guinness is alot smoother
>and less bitter than the traditional bottled stuff.
I believe Guinness draught and Ginness Extra Stout are two
different recipes, the draught recipe being smoother, the Extra Stout
containg a small portion of soured beer.
>2. What does the nitrous oxide actually do to the beer? I.e. how does it
>interact with the brew to give the creamy head and the smoother taste.
N2, not NO2. It doesn't dissolve (well, not well). The thick body
and tiny bubbles make for the creamy head.
>3. Is any other brewer using the NO2 cartridge? If so, who?
There are a few british ales using the N2 cartridge (called, I
believe, a "bobo")
>4. Would it make sense to use the NO2 cartridge in any other brew (lambic?
>porter? scottish ale?)
A scottish ale perhaps, definitely NOT a lambic. Any beer which is
cask conditioned and served by hand pump rather than by pressure (ie "Flat"
beers) could be served with this method.
>5. Are any home brewers using the NO2 cartridge for their homebrew, or
>contemplating trying it?
Not unless they have a way of canning their beer under N2 pressure.
Most homebrewers use bottle conditiong for carbonation. Some may have used
a CO2/N2 mix for dispensing Kegs, though.
***********************
Spencer.W.Thomas writes:
>I was recently re-reading Rajotte's book, thinking about trying for a
>"Grand Cru" style, with Celis's yeast (assuming, as has been claimed
>here, that the White and Grand Cru use the same yeast). He seems to
>contradict himself on the topic of the exact composition of "candi"
>sugar. On one page, referring to the "rock" kind, he says it's 99%
>sucrose. On the next page, referring to the liquid kind, he say's
>it's a mixture of sucrose and invert sugar. Elsewhere in the "Sugar"
>section, he says that brewers prefer invert sugar because it's easier
>for the yeast to "eat" (they don't have to break it down first).
Invert sugar is split sucrose. Same components, easier for
yeasties to digest, and perhaps the invert sugar is easier to make into a
syrup (higher solubility rate?).
>Does anyone know whether the inconsistency because that's the way it
>really is, or are one or more of the above statements incorrect?
>Does anyone know of a good source for invert sugar? I assume I can
>color it by carmelizing some of it.
Might be able to find invert sugar at the grocery store near the
cakes and frosting mixes. If not, try food distributors, or your local
mega bakery. What I did was to dissolve sucrose in a bit of wort, and I
added just a touch of honey and corn syrup. Then I boiled the s$#@ out of
it to caramelize it. As the water evaporates it will all froth up and make
a mess, so keep your eyes on it. To get the caramelized sugars out of the
pan, keep the heat on and add more wort, stir to dissolve.
The belgian ale I did this way came out tasting right, anyway.
ed
____________
Ed Hitchcock/Dept of Anatomy & Neurobiology/Dalhousie University/Halifax NS
ech@ac.dal.ca +-----------------------------------------+
| Never trust a statement that begins: |
| "I'm not racist, but..." |
+-----------------------------------------+
Diversity in all things. Especially beer.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 9:39:17 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Burners for Culturing
> Does anyone know of a source of burners for use in yeast culturing? I have
> an "alcohol lamp" (a vessel with a large "wick" in it) but would like to find
> a burner with a more constant/controllable flame.
I use a propane torch. Overkill, maybe, but it certainly does the job.
I originally bought it for constructing a counterflow wort chiller, and
wouldn't be using it much any more if not for yeast culturing.
A bottle of propane cost about $8 at the hardware store, if memory serves.
The head (valve/nozzle assembly) can be had for about the same, or you
can spend a little more if you want one with a built-in igniter.
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji@hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 17:20 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Low SG/hop bags again/siphon tip
Bret writes:
> Both of my first two batches used kits -- syrup -- and no sugar. The
> first used a 3.3lb Munton & Fison Pilsner kit with 1.4 lb Light Amber
> Malt kicker. The second used 1.8kg Muntons IPA Bitters with 1.4 lb
> Lilght Amber Malt kicker.
>
> In each case, the SG after sparging and after getting the total volume
> of liquid to ~5 gallons was around 1.015. This seems awfully low to
> me, as it'll result in beer that has (at most) around 1.5% alcohol
> content.
It has already been mentioned that perhaps the water that you sparged with
had not mixed very well with the wort at the bottom of the fermenter. This
is most likely the problem. However, you should also remember to compensate
for temperature. Check your hydrometer -- most are calibrated for 60F, but
some are calibrated for 70F. Once you know what it's calibrated at, you
need to compensate for the temperature of the wort you're measuring. All I
have handy right now is a sheet that came with one of my very first
hydrometers. It was calibrated to 60F and here's the temp. compensation
chart:
50F -0.0005
60F 0.0
70F +0.001
77F +0.002
84F +0.003
95F +0.005
105F +0.007
Check back issues of HBD for at least three more charts/formulas for
SG temperature compensation.
**************************
Mark writes (regarding whether or not to wait for the hot break before
adding hops -- the text preceded by >: is part of my post):
>:Why does this matter? Well, the theory is that the protein coagulated
>:around the hops will reduce utilization. I have not done side-by-side
>:tests of this, but I do recall a significant increase in hop utilization
>:when I began to wait for the hot break before adding the hops. I did not
>:put the two together till someone on the HBD mentioned it.
>
>I don't buy this. Number one, if it really did boost utilization, you can
>bet the big breweries would be using it. I've never seen any reference to
>it.
Researchers research & publish, whereas brewers brew & usually don't publish.
A problem with articles written by researchers is that much of the information
is not bound to practical applications. I called the Siebel Institute and
they confirmed that except for hop extracts, the hops are generally not added
at the very beginning of the boil for several reasons including the one I
mentioned.
>Number two, I've never noticed any protein coating the hop petals
>or particles and even if it did, it wouldn't matter cause there isn't any-
>thing of value in there anyway. Now if we're talking microscopically
>around the resins, maybe there's a possibility. But the biggest problem I
>have with it is waiting for the hot break. Besides the fact that a lot
>of newbies don't even know what it is or what it looks like, I don't want
>to keep sampling my wort to see the break so I know when to add hops.
>Then I'd have to figure out how many boil minutes remained and adjust my
>hopping rate accordingly in real time. What if I didn't get a break until
>30 minutes into 1 hour boil? I'd be getting a *lot* less ultilization from
>the shorter boil time than any better utilization advantage I might have got
>by waiting.
Mark, you might as well admit you are one of those newbies. For you and the
others, that don't know what hot break looks like, it looks kind of like
egg drop soup. No need to sample your wort unless you are boiling in a
keg with a small hole cut in the top of it. You just look in the pot and
see the flakes churning about. It begins usually within the first 5 minutes
of the boil as little flakes of off-white globs. I'm not saying wait 30
minutes (although some brewers do) for your first hop addition -- I usually
wait 10 or 15 minutes and then add my hops. So my logbook reads:
boil: 70 min
60min -- 1oz Nugget Pellets 12.8% AA.
15min -- 1/2oz East Kent Goldings Plugs 4.7%AA.
dryhop -- 1oz East Kent Goldings Plugs 4.7%AA.
>:>the bottom. This is instead of the hop bag. The hop bags are great for dry
>:>hopping, but I don't like them for the boil.
>:
>:I disagree. I do just the opposite. I use a hop bag for boiling primarily
>:to avoid the problems of having to remove the hops from the wort later,
>:either as you pour the wort into the fermenter (my screen kept clogging
>:and that made it a real pain!) or when racking. I just compensate by
>:adding 10% more hops. I don't use a hop bag for dryhopping but only use
>:whole or plug hops because they float. I've never had any problems
>:siphoning the beer out from under the whole hops.
>
>Floating hops does not make for good oil utilization. The best method is
>to keep the hops suspended in the middle of the beer using a bag and weight
>system (tie the weight to the drawstring instead of putting it in the bag).
>This is what Anchor does and I have found it works well for me and other
>brewers I know. I don't know of any commercial brewers that boil their
>hops in a bag, but they do use them for dry hopping. But what works for
>you works for you.
I contend that it is more difficult to get the hop bag into a carboy
than loose hops, more difficult to remove the hop bag than loose hops
from a carboy (not an issue for Anchor, with their open fermenters),
sanitation of the hop bag is not particularly easy (I just sanitize a
funnel and a 1 foot length of plastic HDPE hose and stuff the hops through
it into the carboy) and the total surface area contact of loose hops is
probably greater than that of hops in a hop bag despite the fact that
the very top layer of hops is not immersed in the beer (I'm just basing
my assertion on my observations -- not on any experiments that I've done).
>:>BTW, I have found
>:>the "orange racking tip" thingy to be essentially worthless. Ditto
>:Interesting, but I've had no trouble with the orange tip on the end of my
>:racking cane -- I tip the carboy with a stack of coasters or a block of
>:wood and then gently lower the cane into the lowest part of the carboy.
>:I then use masking tape or a rubber band to make sure the cane doesn't
>:move. I discard the first two cups or so and the beer runs clear from
>:there on. Perhaps you are not getting a good cold break and your trub
>:layer is very deep. Then again, you've got hops in your trub and I don't.
>So you get a couple of cups of trub? Isn't this exactly what the orange
>racking tube tip is suppossed to prevent? I guess it doesn't work for
>you either! :-) I suggest you try leaving it off once and I'll bet your
>results will be identical. My trub layer isn't any deeper than yours, and
I don't think you understand the principle. When I insert the racking tube
with the orange tip into the fermenter, I'm careful to avoid disturbing
the trub. The tip sinks partly into the trub and the first two cups of beer
through the racking tube draws the nearby trub in -- subsequent beer is
virtually crystal clear.
>I don't have hops in it. My strainer works fine. I also use a "settling
>tank" between the kettle and the primary. I use my old plastic fermenter
>with the spigot in the bottom. I cool the wort, pour through the strainer
>into the bucket, put the top on and let the cold break settle out. Then
That must be some mongo strainer or you must have to dump it after every
gallon of wort -- I stand corrected -- I had theorized that perhaps the
reason for your dissatisfaction with the orange tip racking tube was a very
deep trub layer in the primary. I try to avoid transfer of beer when I
can, since every additional transfer is one more container to sanitize
(plastic fermenters being even harder to sanitize than stainless or glass)
and an additional invitation for infection.
Al.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1180, 07/13/93
*************************************
-------
