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HOMEBREW Digest #1156
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/06/04 00:15:01
HOMEBREW Digest #1156 Fri 04 June 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Oktoberfest recipe and dirty stove tops (Marc de Jonge)
RE: iodine (James Dipalma)
mircowave sanitation, superheated water (Ralph Palmer)
SS/dry yeast (donald oconnor)
Converting a freezer to a fridge (LPD1002)
SS and phosphoric acid (donald oconnor)
California Crazy Train ("Rad Equipment")
pH Testing (Jack Schmidling)
looking for time saving tips ("Anton Verhulst")
Hunter AirStat modification (BLAST)
A beer joke ("Rafael Busto" )
Re: What's the story with SA (TAN1)
HELP FROM NJ!!! (korz)
Lautering (Bryan L. Gros)
RE: How can I protect my stove? (""Robert C. Santore"")
Sparging, Octoberfest, pH Testing (Jack Schmidling)
Re: iodine (Drew Lynch)
Beyond momilies ("William A Kitch")
Noble Hops Wasteful? *NOT* ("Roger Deschner ")
OFest Recipe Formulation (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
Iodine testing (Dennis J. Templeton)
iodine ("Spencer W. Thomas")
Oops... ("Anthony Johnston")
taste of yeast starters (ng570)
Garlic Beer Inquiry (Lou Casagrande)
Micro in Alden, Iowa (Chad Sheley)
Wort Chiller to Sparge Heater (CompuCom) <v-ccsl@microsoft.com>
EDME Brewcraft Barrel/Bleach & SS/St. Pat's of TX correction (korz)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 11:46:29 +0200
From: dejonge@tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: Oktoberfest recipe and dirty stove tops
After reading Tony Babinec's post in HBD 1155, I decided to throw in
another recipe for munich oktoberfest. This one is so simple it's
hardly a recipe but the taste comes out great: Strong malty flavour,
might do with a bit more hops, the taste is definitely 'in style'
(so the style might do with a bit more hops :)
[recipe for 20 litres]
5.5 kg Munich malt
40 g Hallertau hops (whole, 5.1% alpha)
yes, that's it
I make this with a 2-stage decoction mash, fairly high temperature
(for German beer)
Add strike water to get a temperature of 53C
(pH of the mash around 5.4) while 60% is at this temp. do a quick
infusion step of 67C with 40% of the mash (20 mins),
boil (20 min) and back,(temperature should be around 67C)
rest 45 mins,
boil 1/3 of the mash for 10 minutes,
back and rest 20 minutes (around 72C), sparge
add 30 g of hops at the beginning of the boil, the remainder
some 20 minutes before the end
Pitch bottom fermenting yeast, primary at 14C, secondary at 9C,
lager at 6C for a month.
OG 1053-1057
FG 1012-1014
The malts I've used for this recipe are Belgian munich and
Munich munich, they come out a bit different (the German version
was somewhat darker), but very nice.
On another issue:
Hal Laurent asks about stains on the stove top:
>Two questions:
>
> 1. Is there some method of removing these stains from the stove?
>
a warm cleaning soda (Na2CO3, not caustic soda!) solution may help,
but I'm not sure what that does with your stove top
> 2. Would it help if I lined the stove top with aluminum foil or
> some other material when doing the boil?
Being a sloppy cook, I find it useful to flood the stove with water
before I start cooking anything messy, that reduces the cleaning
of the stove to mopping up afterwards.
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Marc de Jonge dejonge@geof.ruu.nl
- ------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 08:45:36 EDT
From: dipalma@banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: iodine
Hi All,
In HBD#1155, Spencer W. Thomas writes:
>I'm sure this has been covered before, but here I go again....
>The last batch I made, I did the iodine test two ways: 1. I drained a
>little out of the spigot at the bottom of my mash/lauter tun (Gott
>cooler with copper-pipe manifold). This tested completely starch free
>after 20 minutes (the first time I tested it). 2. I pushed the spoon
>into the top of the mash and let some fluid run into it. This never
>tested clear, even after 1.5 hours.
>So which one should I believe?
I'd say believe the first sample. What I think happened is that the
sample drawn from the spigot was free of grain husks and pieces of grain
by virtue of being drawn through your sparge manifold, while the second
sample taken from the top of the mash contained grain material.
IMHO, the iodine test *is* a reliable means of determining starch
conversion, but it is absolutely critical that the sample be free of
any grain husks (which contain cellulose) and grain chunks (insoluble
starch, which will never convert). What is being tested here is the
degree of conversion of *soluble* starch to sugars, so it's important to
test a sample that is liquid only, free of any particulate matter.
Cheers,
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 09:31:43 EDT
From: Ralph Palmer <rpalmer@Think.COM>
Subject: mircowave sanitation, superheated water
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Does the radiation from a standard home microware offer any sanitation
or sterilization benefits? I remember reading about a new autoclave design
that also used microwave in the process and began to wonder about home
microwave ovens.
I just cultured my first batch of wyeast into 4 starters, and was very
paraniod about sanitation. Afer soaking the bottles in a bleach solution
I decided to boil them. I do not have a pot big enough, so I filled each
bottle 1/3 full and stuck them into the microwave to boil the water inside
the bottle. As I sat there waiting for the boil, I wondered if the microwaves
themselves would kill any of the nasties.
Boiling the water inside the bottles worked well, but I also got to relearn
the hazards of superheating water. The bubbles in boiling water need a
site to nucleate or the water does not boil at 212F. Typically scratches
in pans or glass provide a nice nucleation point. However if there are
no scratches, ie a nice smooth bottle or flask, the water will heat above
212F. That is why boiling chips, little pieces of porus ceramic, are put
in flasks in chem class. One of my 4 bottles did not boil when the others
did. I first thought it was because it was positioned in the corner. When
I opened the microware and touched the bottle, the hot water spurted out
the top! Thank goodness I was wearing an oven mit. I will continue to
use the mircowave to boil water in the bottle, but plan to put in a scratched
glass marble in to act as a boiling chip.
Ralph Palmer
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Palmer |The opinions above are mine alone and do not
Thinking Machines Corporation |necessarily represent the views of my employer
245 First Street |----------------------------------------------
Cambridge, MA 02142 | "Even paranoid people have real enemies"
email: rpalmer@think.com |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 08:37:12 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: SS/dry yeast
Al writes,
"I re-checked my 1991-1992 Cole-Parmer Chemical Reactivity charts and
there was no mention of Chlorox (bleach)."
Better check again Al. Page 1185, item 23 from the top, 1991-92 Cole
Parmer catalog is none other than "Clorox (bleach)." It's in the 93-94
catalog as well, page 1465.
Al goes on,
"Furthermore, I'd like to point out that don's wife is the owner of St. Pat's
of Texas (brewing supply) and they do not stock Iodophor rather they
stock a chlorine sanitizer."
Wrong again. St. Pat's has never at any time stocked a chlorine sanitizer
. St. Pat's has stocked both the 4 oz and liter size of iodophor for about a
year. We've been using iodophor for as long but I see no reason to run
down bleach which, as John Isenhaur points out, is inexpensive, readily
available and just fine if used properly. It should be noted that my
standard dose (1 tsp/gallon) was 1/6 th that suggested by george fix (1
oz/gallon), i.e., nearly a full order of magnitude below the safe level. If I
understand George correctly, he believes repeated use with a bleach
solution known to be safe, will eventually cause harm. Poor logic. If we
drink a beer a day for 40 years, we won't die from alcohol poisoning.
I recommend Arne's ? wonderful post of a couple days ago about the
reactivity of chlorite with aluminum. Its a wonderful example of how
useless superficial knowledge such as numbers from tables can sometimes
be.
More from Al,
"Finally, don has, in a newsletter, questioned the quality of the DeWolf-
Cosyns Belgian Malts (another item not stocked by St. Pat's of Texas)"
Not true on both counts. St. Pat's newsletters have had only good things to
say about belgian malts. Not only does St. Pat's sell Belgian malt, St. Pat's
was one of the first shops to do so. In fact, St. Pat's was the first shop to
advertise the availability of Belgian malts in Zymurgy (summer '92 Great
Fermentations also has an ad in the same issue). My wife Lynne learned of
these malts from Pierre Celis during a personal tour of his brewery while
it was still under construction. Lynne can testify to Pierre's wonderful
nature. He spent an hour or so toting our youngest boy Patrick, 1 at the
time, around the brewery.
Al adds,
"St. Pat's of Texas turns out to be the sole distributor of Briess malt in the
area."
St. Pat's, like Pierre Celis, appreciates the quality of both Briess and DeWolf
Cosyns malt.
Al goes on,
"I've yet to find the reasoning for don's tirade on yeast a few weeks ago,
but I'm sure that his ulterior motives will surface eventually."
The only two people who have resorted to sophomoric remarks regarding
my posts about yeast are Al and George. I believe Al sells dry yeast for a
profit and George of course is employed by the distributor of Whitbread.
On the other hand St. Pat's gives dry yeast away free because Lynne
cannot in good conscience sell it for a profit. I would be more than
delighted if George and Al's dream of pure dry yeast were to come true;
then Lynne could start selling the dry yeast for a profit.
I found it ironic that in the end George was blaming Lallemand, Al's
favorite dry yeast producer, for the problems with Whitbread, the product
that George represents. For the record, all Whitbread, the good, the bad
and the ugly has been produced under contract by Distillers in England.
That particular portion of the Whitbread history seems to have been
invented for the purpose of not only deflecting responsibility for the really
atrocious batch of a couple of years ago, but also to pass blame on to the
competitor, Lallemand.
Best regards,
Don
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 07:38:07 -0600
From: LPD1002%NYSHESCV.bitnet@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU
Subject: Converting a freezer to a fridge
Thanks to all who responded to my query.
I have found the Hunter Airstat as recommended at Builders Square
For $28. It only has a low end of 40 Degrees. That was somewhat
bothersome since one of the reasons I wanted a fridge was to
try lagering. The other suggestion, a Johnson Controls Portable
Thermostat is sold at my locat Homebrew store for $64.95. This
price was somewhat bothersome, but I think it's the one for me.
It has a wider range (down to 20 degrees) and the owner of the
homebrew store says he recommends it over the Hunter because he
knows of some people who used Hunters and had their compressors
burn out. It seems the Hunter is a little TOO precise and kicks
the compressor on when there is any fluctuation in temperature.
The freezer I lucked into seems pretty old, so I guess my
decision is made.
STEVE SEPTER
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 08:52:07 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: SS and phosphoric acid
George Fix uses a sanitizer containing phosphoric acid for his 304 stainless
kegs. Phosphoric acid reacts quite severely with 304 stainless. should
we then conclude that the use of this sanitizer will damage his kegs with
repeated use? of course not. For the same reason that dilute bleach
will not either.
the key here is to use the product whether its phosphoric acid or bleach
properly.
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jun 1993 07:08:23 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment@rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: California Crazy Train
Subject: California Crazy Train Time:7:04 AM Date:6/3/93
Due to a gross lack of response (0 reservations) the Crazy Train between LA &
Portland has been cancelled. Frequent reasons offered included the extended
travel time required and the attraction of lower RT airfares available. Maybe
we'll try again next year to Denver.
RW...
Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment@radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 09:06 CDT
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: pH Testing
>From: jdg@cyberspace.org (Josh Grosse)
>In today's issue, Mr. S. questioned his purchase of a pH meter, and said he
felt he purchased equipment he found to be useless.
>I have one, and I find it extremely useful for three purposes:
You will note that *I* found it to be useless, i.e. with MY process, using MY
water. I only suggested that before speNding the money, one should try one
to see if it is needed in his/her case.
If no adjustments are necessary and the water supply is constant, then one
need not make the measurements on a continuing basis.
>1) Adjusting the pH of the mash. (pH 5.0-5.5)
I presume you mean that you adjust the water to something so that after
adding the malt, the pH is 5.0 to 5.5. I wonder what that something is.
My water is 8.1 and drops into that range. I would be interested in knowing
what your numbers are without adjusting.
>2) Adjusting the pH of sparge water. (ph 5.6-5.8)
Again, my sparge water is 8.1 and after sparging 10 gallons, it only raises
the total pH of the wort a tenth of a point.
>3) Ensuring I don't oversparge. (ph > 5.5)
It is just as useful to use a hydrometer. If you stop sparging when the
gravity falls below 1.008, you will not likely have any problems. It will
take tons of a water a few points higher to have any effect on the total
wort.
But again, I am only suggesting that one try it before buying. He may find
that it only tells him what he already suspected from the quality of the beer
produced.
------------------------------
>From: korz@iepubj.att.com
>Subject: Wyeast British and London/Rusty hop leaves
>JACK writes:
It may seem folksy to use first names but it's a bit confusing. I (one of
several Jacks) am not responsible for the above.
js
ZZ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 93 10:28:42 EDT
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst@zk3.dec.com>
Subject: looking for time saving tips
In HBD #1155 Hal Laurent appreciated the quality of his brews after switching
to all grain but complains about the amount of time it takes.
When I read his post I thought he was talking about me! :-) I've got 3
all grain batches under my belt now and they were great (IMHO). Even
my wife drinks my beers now - she was indifferent to my extract brews. My best
time for brewing an all grain batch is about 5 hours and I'd like to cut that
down as much as possible. Some one in a recent Zymurgy issue said that an
all grain batch took him 3 hours, including clean up.
My biggest problem right now is that I don't have water ready at the right
temperature at the right time and I know that this will be cured by experience.
I would like to hear about time saving tips from other brewers.
regards,
- --Tony Verhulst
------------------------------
Date: 03 Jun 1993 10:06:10 -0600 (CST)
From: BLAST@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Subject: Hunter AirStat modification
I remember reading about a mod to the Hunter AirStat to make it work for a
lower (< 40F) temperature range.
Could someone with the specifics please repost or e-mail it to me?
I'm getting ready to do a lager and with outside temps above 90F already,
the little yeasties are going to need lots of TLC (Thermal Lagering Control).
Thanks,
Bruce Ray
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jun 93 11:01:04
From: "Rafael Busto" <SUPERVISOR@bnk1.bnkst.edu>
Subject: A beer joke
- Why american (commercial) beer is like making love in a canoe?
- Because is f__ing close to water
Rafael Busto
Computer Center Bank Street College of Education, New York City
RBusto@bnk1.bnkst.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 08:01:13 PDT
From: TAN1%SysEng%DCPP@cts27.cs.pge.com
Subject: Re: What's the story with SA
In HBD 1155 Big Ed asks
>What's the story with Sam Adams. It seems it's always getting trashed here.
>A lot of people in my area (Southern MA) are buying Sam Adams. (Course there's
>not a whole lot of selection in my area.) Is Sam Adams Ale and Lager really
>that bad, or is it that people just don't like Koch(?). I'm new, so forgive me
>for not being up on the controversy.
>****
The controvery is not the beer produced by SA, it is generally regarded as
excellent (with the exception of the "Lambic"). The problem is Ed Koch and his
less than above board advertising techniques and litigations. SA has made
claims that were not true (winner of the GABF 4 years running), filed lawsuits
against micro-brewerys for the use of the name "Boston" in their beer, and
generally handled himself in a manner that makes you glad he is not your
neighbor.
I've been watching the digest for almost a year now and have found it amusing
as to the various controversies that unfold. It's like watching the black
sheep of the family, wondering what he's going to do next to screw up.
I personally do not participate in the boycott of SA products. I like his
beers, and use them as examples good American beers. I do go on, then, to
explain about Koch. I may not like Koch, but its hard to deny that the lager
is excellent.
Tom Nelson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 10:31 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: HELP FROM NJ!!!
HELP!!!
URGENT!!!
If you live or work in New Jersey and would be willing to do me favor
(picking up some boxes from a warehouse and UPSing them to me) please
send me email directly. Yes, this is beer-related and I'm sure we could
figure out some kind of beer-related compensation for this favor.
Thanks. Sorry about the bandwidth.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 08:55:57 PDT
From: bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Lautering
I realize that the variety of methods of sparging are as
numerous as people brewing, but I am looking for some
general guidelines.
What are the main parameters in sparging? That is, what are
the important things that you want to work towards however you
are sparging? How important is, for example, the thickness of
the grain bed? the temperature of the water? the level of water
above the grain bed? the amount of recirculation? water hardness/
softness? pH?
what have I missed? which are irrelevant? which depend on the
style of beer the brewer is aiming for? what do people that
sparge for two or three hours doing all that time, recirculating
or waiting for the grain to "soak" or what?
With that information, what is important for equipment? geometry
of the lauter tun?
Several points of view would be great. I think this aspect (along
with a poor grain crush from the store) is my main problem with
poor efficiency now (and maybe others too). Thanks
- Bryan
I guess I'm asking for a lot of information, so pointers to a good
reference would be fine, if one exists.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 93 12:01:52 -0400
From: ""Robert C. Santore"" <rsantore@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: RE: How can I protect my stove?
In HBD 1155 Hal Laurent asks about how to avoid brown stains on his stove.
Hal, I have the exact same set up you descrived: A 33 qt enameled steel
brewpot over two burners of a white enamaled gas stove. I get the same
brown stains you do. One obvious source of the brown gunk is wort boil-
overs or small drips and spills. I've also found that ANY residue on the
stove at the start of the brew session will turn into that impossible stain
even if it dosn't look dirty to begin with. While starting out with a very
clean stove, and cleaning all spill as they happen will help, I have never
had a brew session that didn't leave some stain. The solution is to use
oven cleaner after you're all done. Let is soak awhile and you should find
that the stain wipes right off.
Bob Santore
rsantore@mailbox.syr.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 11:08 CDT
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Sparging, Octoberfest, pH Testing
>From: Jamie Ide 02-Jun-1993 1046 <ide@studio.enet.dec.com>
> That is, immerse the chiller in a pot of hot (boiling?) water and
run tap water through it to heat sparge water. By playing with the
flow rate and the water temp., I ought to be able to get it up to temp.
easily.
> Has anyone tried this? Any opinions?
Ah, yes. Great minds do travel the same paths. You just missed my latest new
product announcement. The EASYSPARGER (tm) or easysparger (if you make it
yourself) does exactly that with a lot less fuss.
It is a small (6 qt) kettle with two barb fittings on it. One goes to a hose
and faucet adapter and the other, an inch lower, goes to a piece of stiff
tubing that dribbles water into the lauter tun. The kettle sits on the stove
and will provide all the sparge water you will ever need with no pre-planning
or calculating.
On second thought, there is one significant disadvantage of your approach and
that is there is no chlorine evaporation in the wort chiller, whereas in the
open kettle, most of it is evaporated before getting to the outflow.
> I could easily hook up a "showerhead" to the hose output and get a
nicely distributed flow over the mash.
For the record, a shower head is one of those things that commercial brewers
use that have no application in small batches but are so cute that some
suppliers just can't resist selling them.
If (as it should be) the water level is maintained above the grain level in
the lauter tun, it make no difference where or how the water enters as long
as it is not a tunneling downpour.
>From: tony@spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
>Most German Oktoberfest beers have a starting gravity of 1.052 -
1.055, which puts them more in line with the AHA "Vienna" style.
> Ferment at 50 degrees F or so. Rack the beer to secondary, and lager for 4
to 8 weeks.
I got the idea from the Fix's book that the most fundamental difference
between the two styles derived from the fact that the Octoberfest was, by
definition, aged for many months, i.e. March to October.
If you look at the gravity ranges for the two styles, they just about overlap
to the extent that the bottom end of one is the top end of the other.
I would think that aging a "Marzen/Octoberfest" for two months would be
cheating on the old family recepie.
...........
To clarify a point on an earlier posting, my tap water is around 8.1 and upon
doughing in, the pH of the mash drops to around 5.5. The point being that if
one buffers their water to this range before doughing in, they may be just
kidding themselves.
js
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 93 08:57:20 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew@chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: iodine
> I'm sure this has been covered before, but here I go again....
Well, sort of....
> The last batch I made, I did the iodine test two ways: 1. I drained a
> little out of the spigot at the bottom of my mash/lauter tun (Gott
> cooler with copper-pipe manifold). This tested completely starch free
> after 20 minutes (the first time I tested it). 2. I pushed the spoon
> into the top of the mash and let some fluid run into it. This never
> tested clear, even after 1.5 hours.
I have been using an identical setup, and have have identical
results. My top test did eventually test complete, after 3-4 hours.
For a while, I even did overnite mashes to get complete conversion. I
ended up with a lot of underbodied, overalcoholic brews. What I have
done since then is raised my normal mash temp to the upper end of the
range, and stir occasionally. I now get complete conversion top and
bottom in less than an hour. The stirring does speed loss of
temperature though.
- ---
My SS keg went to the fabricators today! I am having false bottom
supports and a nipple welded into it. I already have the pump, and
plan on doing a pseudo-RIMS using my existing King Kooker, the keg and
the pump, and graduating to 10 gallon batches as well :-)! Thanks to
Rick Larson for all the info!
Home of Drew's Brew, Beer Worth It's Malt!
Drew Lynch
Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca
(415)964-3312 x18
drew@chronologic.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 10:47:56 CST
From: "William A Kitch" <kitchwa@bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Beyond momilies
If a momily is an opinion presented as fact, what should we call
the following?
Al Korz in HBD #1154 re St. Pat's of Texas.
[snip]
>Furthermore, I'd like to point out that don's wife is the owner of St. Pat's
>of Texas (brewing supply) and they do not stock Iodophor rather they stock
>a chlorine sanitizer.
Wrong. I just last week purchase iodophor from St. Pat's
of Texas.
[snip]
>Finally, don has, in a newsletter, questioned the quality of the DeWolf-Cosyns
>Belgian Malts (another item not stocked by St. Pat's of Texas) while on
>the other hand, St. Pat's of Texas turns out to be the sole distributor
>of Breiss malt in the area.
Wrong again. I regularly buy Briess malts from another seller
in the Austin area.
[snip]
>Please note that this is not a flame. I'm simply posting data that I've
>collected and am not personally attacking anyone. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^
Perhaps you meant to say ". . . lies that I've made up . . ."
I have no particular stake in St. Pat's, it just one of the three local
homebrew suppliers I use. I am however amazed at the amount of
mis-information spread by some contributors to HBD. Momilies are bad
enough, let's at least cut out the completely false statements, Al.
WAK
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 12:11:34 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Noble Hops Wasteful? *NOT*
In the last HBD, Tom Nelson said:
>The use of Tettenanger, a finishing hop, in
>the full boil is also unusual and wasteful in that the excellent
>aromatics will be boiled off.
I beg to differ! The use of "noble", low-yeild hops in the full boil
improves your beer. The only "waste" is money, but hops are a relatively
small part of our financial investment in homebrewing, so I only use the
best.
As has been discussed here at some length before, hops contribute much
more than sheer bitterness, even when used early in the boil. The "other
flavors" - not all of which are driven off by an hour of boiling - are a
vital part of the incredible complex of flavors in a truly great beer. I
say, calculate your bittering units, and then throw bales and bales of
Tettenanger, Saaz, or whatever, in, if that's what it takes. The extra
buck or two will be well spent. Leave those high-alpha hops for the
commercial guys who watch the bottom line.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 12:08:08 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni@nectech.com
Subject: OFest Recipe Formulation
Regarding the use of German vs Belgian Pilsner malt for Fest recipes.
In George Fix's review of Belgian grains he mentions that the Belgian
Pilsner pilsner malt is much lower in SMM, the DMS precursor that is a
good indicator of the level of malty/sulphury flavor in the brew, than
the German malts. I find this component an important part of the flavor
and aroma profile of a fest beer like Spaten Ur Marzen and would consider
using German malts as the base malts in addition to the highly praised
Belgian specialty malts. I would also do a decoction mash.
My read of George's review suggests that for Chec style Pilsners, Fest and
other lagers with a rich malty profile quality German pils malts are a better
choice than Belgian. Are there other factors which out weigh the low SMM
that make the Belgian a better choice? Did I miss something?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 14:16:28 -0400
From: djt2@po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Iodine testing
>From yesterday's digest:
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
Subject: iodine
I'm sure this has been covered before, but here I go again....
The last batch I made, I did the iodine test two ways: 1. I drained a
little out of the spigot at the bottom of my mash/lauter tun (Gott
cooler with copper-pipe manifold). This tested completely starch free
after 20 minutes (the first time I tested it). 2. I pushed the spoon
into the top of the mash and let some fluid run into it. This never
tested clear, even after 1.5 hours.
So which one should I believe? I got a great (for me) extraction rate
of 31 pts/lb/gal, with wonderfully clear sweet wort, so it would seem
that conversion was indeed complete (maybe at 20 minutes).
<end>
This point is poorly made in the books, I think, but I remeber one text
covering it. Iodine will react with powdered husk as well as with starch.
In my experience the starch reaction is the purple color that is usually
described, and the reaction with husk particles produces a greenish brown
color. In a thick solution, with excess iodine around, the two results can
be confusing. If you look closely at the husk reaction, you will probably
notice that the color is not in the solution, but in tiny particles, with
clear fluid in betwen.
I have developed the habit to test only runoff that has been pre-circulated
a little, as Spencer reports above, and I also dilute it a little, maybe
2:1 with water before adding the iodine.
Good luck,
dennis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 14:37:02 CDT
From: "Anthony Johnston" <anthony@chemsun.chem.umn.edu>
Subject: Oops...
Thanks to all who let me know that the town in IA is Adel, not Alden.
Tony Johnston
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 13:17:29 PDT
From: ng570@andechs.pnl.gov
Subject: taste of yeast starters
I have a question concerning how a yeast starter should taste, i.e.,
whether contamination has occurred or not. The situation is this:
after propagating a Wyeast 1084 (Irish) package into several bottles of
about 5 oz each (unhopped, O.G. 1.020, fermented completely out), I took one
out last night to pitch into a 1 quart starter so that I could brew this
weekend. Well for once I decided to taste it to see if there were any
problems. Well it was very clean tasting and the 'beer' was very clear (i.e.
not cloudy), however it seemed very acidic. Is this typical for this case
or do I have a possible contamination of lactic or acetic acid bacteria?
I hate to toss out all of these potential starters if I'm just being paranoid,
but I don't want to ruin a perfectly good batch of beer either.
Thanks for the help,
Kirk Peterson
- --
Theory, Modeling, and Simulation
Molecular Science Research Center
Pacific Northwest Laboratory
office - (509) 375-6350
FAX - (509) 375-6631
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 16:50:22 EDT
From: casagran@gdstech.grumman.com (Lou Casagrande)
Subject: Garlic Beer Inquiry
Fellow Brewers,
A friend of mine is contemplating making a Garlic brew. Actually, he
wants to take about 1 six-pack out of another brew and add garlic to
it. Does anyone have any advice on the best stage at which to add the
garlic? AdvTHANKSance.
Lou Casagrande
casagran@gdstech.grumman.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 15:28:40 -0600 (CDT)
From: max!chad@uunet.UU.NET (Chad Sheley)
Subject: Micro in Alden, Iowa
HBD;
There has been a small amount of discussion on a micro-brewery in Alden, Iowa,
and subsequently in Adel, Iowa.
Well, I did a very small amount of research and called the City Hall in Alden
and was informed there was no brewery in Alden. (Dispersed amongst much
laughter). Just for reference, the town of Alden is located about 30 miles
north of Ames, Iowa off of highway 35 on highway 20. (Not that it matters now.)
Now for something that I DO know for sure. I live exactly 3 blocks from the
Dallas County Brewing Company in Adel. The other information supplied by other
HBDers is correct. The beer is marketed under the name "Old Depot" in reference
to the restaurant which is housed in the former Adel railroad depot.
The 4 beers that are available _are_ Lager, Porter, Ale, and a Light. The other
beers mentioned are only available on tap in the Old Depot Pub which is part
of the restaurant. These beers are touted as "Beer of the Month" and are
available on a monthly basis, or until the batch runs out.
As far as the restaurant goes, the menu is very diverse. I have only been there
for the lunch which is pretty normal, but the appetizers and dinner entres are
different.
I don't know how most micro-breweries work, but in this case the brewery and
the restaurant seem to be seperate entities. Which is probably good. I have
heard some not-so-great things about the restaurant (ie: service) and since
the newness has worn off (The whole thing is only in it's 2nd year.) the
parking lot has been sorta empty. At least if the restaurant assumes room
temperature, I can still get that beer that I have come to love. :-)
********************************************************************************
* * __ *
* Chad A. Sheley * / /___ *
* * \ ___\ *
* chad@uis.com * |\ \ \ __ *
* * | \ \ \ \ \ *
* UNIX INTEGRATION SERVICES * \ \ \_\ \ \ *
* 11033 Aurora Ave. * \ \_____\ \ *
* Urbandale, IA 50322 * \______ / *
* (515) 254-3074 * /_/ *
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 May 93 05:24:57 PDT
From: Scott Lord (CompuCom) <v-ccsl@microsoft.com>
Subject: Wort Chiller to Sparge Heater
I have a RIM system that works the same way. I have a 15g covered keg
as a boiler and pump hot water to a 50gal. double wall insulated
storage tank ( it is a old A&W root beer vat) then use two copper
coils in parallel (25ft long ) that are summered in the vat and
recirculate the mash
through it as a temp. boost .I figured out how to keep my mash from
sticking when running my RIM system I use a third 11gal converted keg
as a "GRANT" what I do is set the flow rate out of my insulated mash
tun to the GRANT so the grain does not compact then pump the mash out
of the GRANT through the copper coils back to the top of the mash tun.
I did two brews this last weekend both of then where wheat ales.
31gal.
11lb wheat malt
29 lb 2row
5 lb carapils
5 lb crystal 40l
4 tsp. Irish moss last 20 min.
4 oz. Saaz (alpha=4.5) boil
1 oz. Tettnang (alpha=4.0) 30 min.
3 oz. Tettnang (alpha=4.0) end of boil
31 gal
28 lb British 2 row
19 lb wheat malt
4 lb carapils
4 oz. centenals boil
1.5 oz. Haller-tau 30 min.
2.5 oz. Haller-tau end of boil
mash 76c5min
/4min
72c15min/
/
67c15min_/ 7min.
/
/
/ 17min
/
50c30min.__/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 16:42 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: EDME Brewcraft Barrel/Bleach & SS/St. Pat's of TX correction
Joseph writes:
>I recently purchased an EDME Brewcraft Barrel. The first batch I put in
>was not great. The main problem was it was terribly flat. The barrel is
>6 gallons with the CO2 injectors and a release valve that is supposed to
>keep pressure up to 10 psi.
I think the problem may be that these barrels, most of which are made by
or for English companies, are made for storing and dispensing English-style
ales, which are considerably less carbonated than American-, Belgian- or
German-style beers. You may be able to modify it to keep the beer at
a higher pressure, but I think that it would just be better to just store
English-style ales in it.
*******************************
George writes:
> 2. At room temperature (and a normal pH), 304 is resistant to chlorine
> as long as the FAC is below 250 mg/l.
>
>Since our standard 1 oz. bleach per gallon gives a FAC of 100 mg/l, one
>could conclude that chlorine bleach can be used to sanitize ss kegs.
>Careful brewers will reject this conclusion. The factor of 2.5 is cutting
>it too close.
Then John writes:
>cornelius's, and the bungs and figure 8 gaskets on 1/2 barrels. I had
>bartending experience prior to the use of these kegs where I learned about
>chlorine test strips to determine the sanitizing power of the solution. I use
>in the ballpark of 50 ppm as determined by these strips and I havent had any
I put two and two together and thought about what my test strips read.
Just as another data point, when I use Bleach solution (bottles,
thermometers, glass carboys, etc.) I use one tablespoon per gallon
of hot water (and yes, I use only cool water for Iodophor solutions).
Testing with chlorine test strips, as I do periodically, results in
a reading of 200ppm at the start, dropping from there (how quickly it
drops is proportional to how much organic material is stuck to the
item being sanitized -- bottle that still contained the yeast from a
previous batch will turn your 200ppm solution to something way below 50ppm).
Later, George writes:
>The version of iodophor I use is called Accord II, and
>is made by Diversity. This is the version that has the iodine bound up in
>phosphoric acid; the other versions have it bound up in detergents.
I use an "Iodophor" that is sold under the name BTF or B.E.S.T. (same
stuff, judging from the chemical composision on the labels). It does
not contain phosphoric acid, but also does not contain detergents.
I know there are versions that do have detergents, and these types
are to be avoided for our purposes, but BTF and B.E.S.T. are not of
this type and *are* suitable for homebrewing use.
*******************************
I must appologise to Lynne O'Conner about posting outdated and incorrect
data about St. Pat's of Texas. Without checking, I incorrectly posted
that they do not carry Iodophor or the DeWolf-Cosyns malts. I've since
been told by two sources that they do, indeed carry these items. My
mistake. Sorry.
The whole issue of posting information for possible commercial gains is
a tricky subject. Even if we don't identify ourselves as retailers or
having commercial interests in a particular item, could we be posting
information that tends to bias the buying habits of the HBD readership?
I think so. I have done my best to be fair whenever I post on a topic.
Sure there's a much bigger profit from a package of Wyeast than a package
of Lallemand or Coopers... it's easy to bash dry yeast because many people
have had bad experiences with it. Most brewers will believe it. I,
personally, have had some good experiences with Lallemand and Coopers and
have posted favorably about them. I've had private email which has
indicated that recent shipments of Red Star (can you believe it!?!)
have produced prize-winning beer. I will re-assert myself to continue
to try to be unbiased in my posts and urge everyone to do the same.
The HBD is one of the best sources of brewing information in the world.
On the Brewing Techniques magazine subscription, you will notice there's
a question something like: "where do you get most of your brewing
information? Personally, I have to say the Homebrew Digest. Even the
questions are often as enlightening as the answers, because they make
you think and because they make you put yourself in another brewer's apron
re-think something you may have done 250 times and come up with an even
better way to do it.
I started to brew because I could not buy English Bitter here in the
states. I continued to brew because I love the art and science of brewing.
I opened a homebrew supply store because I have hopes of someday making
a living related to brewing. I'm passionate about beer and brewing and
have spent hundreds of hours helping brewers not because I hoped to gain
their business, but because of my love for the art, the science and the
result -- bottom line.
Al.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1156, 06/04/93
*************************************
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