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HOMEBREW Digest #1140
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/05/13 00:39:00
HOMEBREW Digest #1140 Thu 13 May 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
chang (asmith)
beer in thailand (Kirk Anderson)
Re: Sam Adams...... a Microbrewery (Drew Lawson)
Bay Area Beer (PETTEWAY)
Campden Tablets (fjdobner)
Treacle (ulrich)
Epic Brew Tour! (rizy)
Re: Sam Adams (Ron Natalie)
Re: All grain instructions - how's this look? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
Malt Aroma - Chilling - Boiling (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
some questions and a request (LORD OF THE DEEP)
2 liter PET bottles (David Pike)
Beer Bread (Mark Taratoot)
Yeast (George J Fix)
Pre-boiling Water ("Anderso_A")
Step culturing of yeast (Hal Laurent)
Anchor comments and clarifications (Mark Garetz)
Is this Stainless Steel any good? (Kelly Jones)
Removing labels? (W.R.) Crick" <heybc@bnr.ca>
Usage of hops in Anchor Steam (Martin Wilde)
Hop Isomerization (Donovan Bodishbaugh)
recipes (Gary Cote)
Slow Learner (Jack Schmidling)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:10:06 EDT
From: asmith <ST101163@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: chang
I spent last semster in Nepal, and for about a month I stayed monastery in solu
khumbu, sort of on the way to Everest. The monks don't drink chang, but they d
on't mind if their guests do. The folks who live in that part of Nepal are She
rpas who are descendents of Tibetans, but I'm not sure what the exact history o
f chang is. It was made out of corn, rice, millet or wheat. I saw them make
rice chang, and they did this by cooking up a big pot of rice, letting it cool,
mixing in special chang yeast (marga) which was in powder form. They let it g
o there for about four days, then they transferred it to a big plastic jug for
the secondary fermentation (I think I read somewhere that they used clay pots t
raditionally). From what folks told me, they didn't use sugar unless they want
ed a particularly potent batch, and they didn't add much in the way of water.
It was served warm, and was sometimes pretty chunky. I've tried to make it her
e, but the results haven't been so good. Maybe my standards have changed. The
interesting drink to make would be thomba-- after millet is fermented it is pu
t into a special thomba mug complete with filtering bamboo straw, and hot water
is poured over it. It wasn't so alcoholic, but tasted great. The monk I live
d with also made a type of apple wine, in which he followed more or less the sa
me process as with chang with dried apples. He didn't consider it alcohol as s
uch, but it had a bit of a kick to it. In retrospect, the surprising thing to
me was the utter lack of care about oxidation and also how the plastic jugs did
n't blow up. I imagine they had slight leaks, maybe. I don't know if this hel
ps. about the recipe, I don't think they followed one, so if you want to recre
ate the effect start with rice & champ. yeast. see ya,
A. Smith ps: i would be i
nterested in any more technical information folks have about using starches in
beer & wine making.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 17:26:27 -1100
From: Kirk_Anderson@wheatonma.edu (Kirk Anderson)
Subject: beer in thailand
I'll be in Thailand for June and most of July and would welcome
any advice or suggestions in the 'enjoying world beers' department.
Thanks in advance, and please don't post anything interesting in
the digest while I'm gone. Kirk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 16:15:34 PDT
From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Subject: Re: Sam Adams...... a Microbrewery
> From STROUD%GAIA@leia.polaroid.com ()
> Oh, BTW, the Sam Adams that is sold in Germany is supposed to be
> contract-brewed IN Germany. I don't know the name of the brewery.
Another ping against the ad campaigns. I guess that they imported the
_name_. (Sort of like claiming that Big Macs are imported into
France).
Drew Lawson If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com you're part of the precipitate
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 18:46 PST
From: PETTEWAY@UCLAC1.Chem.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Bay Area Beer
Some time ago an absolutly fantastic guide to brewpubs in the San Francisco
Bay Area was posted. It was unique in that it included detailed public
transportation directions to each place.
If anyone has this, could you please mail it to me. I'll be there in two
weeks and have to start planning!
Thanks alot
Jason Petteway
petteway@uclac1.chem.ucla.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 22:12 CDT
From: fjdobner@ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Campden Tablets
I had a reputable homebrewer once tell me that should I be interested
in adding fruit to the secondary, I would be advised to ensure that
I take sanitary precautions against bacteria and wild yeast. Agreeing
I asked what might be a logical means of doing that. One of the answers
I received was to use Campden tablets to treat the fruit before addition
to the fermenting beer.
Questions are:
1. Is the above advisable?
2. If so, I have purchased Campden tablets from Crosby and Baker
and would like to know how one might proceed. On the label it says
"16 tablets per quart water = 1% solution."
3. Will there be any side affects (taste, aroma) that may result
using the Campden tablets?
E-mail directly or general post (if of wide enough interest) would
be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Frank Dobner
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 21:16:42 -0800
From: ulrich@sfu.ca
Subject: Treacle
William A Kitch asks:
> Do you have sources for demerara, treacle, or candi?
Isn't treacle just the British name for molasses?
Charles Ulrich
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 10:49:26 +0200
From: rizy@eel.sunet.se
Subject: Epic Brew Tour!
Dear Brewfolk,
After working for two years in Sweden as molecular
biologists, my girlfriend and I feel its time to further our search
for the ultimate beer. We plan somehow to travel east-west thru
the U.S. of A. for several months. We would love to attain some
information on micro breweries and brew pubs to visit along the
way. We would also be especially interested in corresponding
with anyone knowledgeable on great places for white water
kayaking, rock climbing and mountain biking.
Please email me at the above address.
Thanks in advance
Rick Zydenbos and Sue Francis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 09:48:47 -0400
From: Ron Natalie <ron@topaz.bds.com>
Subject: Re: Sam Adams
> contract brewed all over the country and at a place in Germany. The reason
> they cited should sit will with all of you HBDers: freshness.
No the real reason: cheapness. For a beer that's got a expiratoin date
post dated five months in advance, I doubt the week to truck the stuff
around the country is going to make much difference.
A more correct reason is probably the same reason the Megabreweries as
well as Coke has regional plants. They SAVE money by not trucking it.
And frankly, most of it comes from Pittsburg which is no closer to
Northern New Jersey than Boston is.
Does any of the 5% they brew go into bottles anyway?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 10:55:14 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: All grain instructions - how's this look?
Drew Lynch writes:
> > >Preboil 10 gallons of "brewing water", put in carboys when cool. (night
> > before brewing)
>
> You only need to do this for extract brewing. All the water you use
> for all grain will end up being boiled in the brewkettle.
Unless you're trying to precipitate carbonates, and/or get rid of
chlorine.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 10:04:34 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni@nectech.com
Subject: Malt Aroma - Chilling - Boiling
The recent discussion of mash thickness, temp and sugars production leads
me to the following question. What component of the mash produces the
"malty aroma" and "malty flavor" found in German Octoberfests . Is this
a function of the type of malt. Since decotion mashers claim these
features are enhanced in that process. What happens in a decoction that
doesn't happen in an infusion that produces these characteristics.
Chilling and Boiling: JS recently posted about a weak boil and no chiller
brew with regards to hot and cold break. Isn't another reason for a
strong rolling boil and a rapid chill the minimization of DimethylSulfide
DMS production. The rolling boil drives off the DMS precursors and the
rapid chill minimizes the time in the optimum production range? or
is this another momily?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 11:29:25 EDT
From: LORD OF THE DEEP <S018%NMUMUS.bitnet@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: some questions and a request
Hullo! I am going to be moving to the Chapel Hill, North Carolina
area at the end of the summer or a little before. My first question is,
does any one know of the typical in the above area? brew pubs, homebrew
supply shopsso on so forth. Anything about the area would be helpfull.
Next up is a Dutch lagger style import extract that i just made, by
following the directions for this extract i have created a very nasty
tasting 18-20 proof beer I forgot to write down the name befor i came to
the lab today so i cannot tell you the brand but if this sounds
firmilliar to anyone please let me know how yours turned out.
Thanks
Ther Richardson
S018@nmumus.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 8:54:16 PDT
From: davep@cirrus.com (David Pike)
Subject: 2 liter PET bottles
We (a loose knit group of computer-type homebrewers) have been using the
1 and 2 liter PET (read COKE, Pepsi, and Talking Rain) bottles for almost
two years now with no problems. if...
1. Use only plastic caps, not the metal ones.
2. Because most of them are clear, you need to keep them in the darkness
during storage.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: 12 May 1993 10:58:42 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW@CC.USU.EDU>
Subject: Beer Bread
Greetings.
A couple of weeks ago I posted a method of making bread
and pretzels from the yeast cake at the bottom of secondary
fermenters. Well, I have something to add.
Last week I made two beautiful loaves of bread from some dregs
from a beer that I had dry-hopped. At first I was a bit
apprehensive about doing this as I didn't know how the
hop bits would affect the taste. I did it anyhow.
The advice:
DO NOT DO THIS!!!
The resulting bread was too bitter to eat, even when
smothered in honey. It may have made an ok garlic
bread, but we were kind of put off.
One interesting note: We left the loaves sitting around
until the weather got nice enough (and we had the time)
to go "feed the ducks." Well, it was over a week before
we finally got out. The thing that surprised me was that
the bread had no mold on it. Then I realized that this was
because of the hops!! Now if I could find some hops that
I could add to the bread that would not make it so bitter
I could increase the shelf life from several days to more
than a week (but the bread usually does not stay around
that long.)
-toot
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 11:40:13 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Yeast
Seth Schneider of Crosby and Baker has informed me that I might have
in a recent HBD post reversed the package sizes of the Whitbread yeast
available today. To make sure there is no confusion, note the following:
12 gram pck. = Whitbread from old plant that is distributed by C+B
14 gram pck. = Whitbread that was produced at the Lallemand plant in
Canada
The strain I tested for C+B came from the lab at Whitbread's new facility.
Tests on yeast from full production runs will be done in the near future.
The tests on the Whitbread available today was not done as a part of my
contract with C+B. I did these strictly for my own edification. The lactic
counts on both were acceptable as was the viability of the C+B version.
The viability test (using Rhodamine B as a stain) showed % viable cells
as low as 17% in the Lallemand version, which is completely unacceptable.
The recent work for C+B dealing with dry yeast has been quite an experience.
It been 15 years since I last used this type of yeast. Two practical
points have come up using dry yeast that I have not seen in homebrewing
books. They are the following:
1. It is useful to refrigerate dry yeast during storage. They will not
lose viability as fast as liquid yeast at room temperatures, nevertheless
they will lose viability with age and this process is accelerated at
temperatures above 60F.
2. Very rigorous sterilization is needed for everything used in the
hydration process. I now do this with a pressure cooker, using 10 mins.
at 15 psi. I screwed up a perfectly good beer by being casual about this
in one batch. The finished beer had a measured diacetyl level of .175 mg/l,
which is above the threshold of .1 mg/l. Subsequent brews have indicated
the error was mine and it occurred during hydration.
Al Richter in HBD#1139 asks about possible problems about Wyeast's London
Ale strain (1028). Two micros in the Southwest had similar problems in the
past. This was the major reason I avoided talking about this yeast at
the microbrewer's conference in New Orleans. However, the Great Lakes Brewing
Co. brought some of their Best Bitter to NO which was fermented with this
yeast. It was IMHO one of the finest examples of this style I have ever
tasted. The brewer kept apologizing that it was merely a "session beer",
but what I was tasting was a very clean ale whose malt/hop balance was dead
on. The finish was soft, but marvelously complex. I have the feeling we are
going to be hearing a lot more from Cleveland (home of GLB Co.) in the
future. I also tasted at the recent Beer Fest in Temecula, Calif. an
outstanding Brown Ale brewed by Martin Lodahl using this yeast. Clearly the
time has come to do a few brews myself with this yeast to see what is
going on here.
George Fix
------------------------------
Date: 12 May 93 07:57:03 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter@seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Pre-boiling Water
Message Creation Date was at 12-MAY-1993 12:51:00
Greetings,
(I am writing this question on behalf of a friend whose
address is too long to be accepted by the HBD computer.)
In yesterday's HBD, Drew Lynch, writing in response to
a request for feed-back for a first all grain beer, wrote:
>> You only need to do this for extract brewing. All the
>>water you use for all grain will end up being boiled in
>>the brewkettle.
This was written in response to the statement:
>>> Preboil 10 gallons of "brewing water", put in carboys
>>> when cool. (night before brewing)
My question:
I thought the reason for pre-boiling the water was so
that the chlorine would be boiled away. The chlorine, being
basic, could adversely affect the ph of the mash. Is this
correct, or am I once again looped in the head?
2nd Item:
Yesterday I asked what was the purpose behind Home Brew
competitions. Well, today I was informed. A friend who was
taking a brewery tour while the judging was going on stated
that based upon the number of times the judges staggered
into the restrooms, the only real purpose of these contests
is for the judges to get free beer.
(Oooh! I can already feel the flames!)
Cheers
Andy Anderson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 14:12:10 EDT
From: Hal Laurent <laurent@tamdno.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: Step culturing of yeast
I see a lot of references to "step-culturing" yeast to increase the
population of yeast cells. Why is it desirable or necessary to do this
in steps? Is it bad to give the yeast too much food at one time? I've
been pitching my yeast into one quart of sterile wort for a starter, but
it still seems to have a 1 1/2 to 2 day lag time before the primary
fermenter's airlock starts to bubble. I've been considering using
two quarts of starter instead of one to get a larger population. Is
it better for me to feed the yeast one quart first and then step up
to two quarts? Can I just pitch the WYeast package into two quarts
to begin with? Do I ask too many questions? :-)
-Hal Laurent
Baltimore MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 10:54:05
From: garetz@brahms.amd.com (Mark Garetz)
Subject: Anchor comments and clarifications
Frank Tutzauer writes about Anchor products:
>evidence for the protein rest...is a picture of the temperature dial...
etc.
You are also making the assumption that they were making steam beer when the
picture was taken. They could also have been making Liberty, Porter, Wheat,
or any of their specialty ales. They all have different mash schedules and
temperatures. Also, if it's the picture I'm thinking of and the temp dial
is the one attached to the copper pipe where the water and grain are mixed
as they flow into the tun, then this dial is measuring the temperature of
the incoming water/grain mixture. The real "dial" (actually a digital
readout) is on the programmed temperature controller, located in another
room.
>mash out is at 160F
That's correct.
>Athough most agree that Anchor uses only Northern Brewer hop in its steam
beer, one occasionally sees other hops mentioned, for example, Hersbrucker
or Galena
I was in Anchor's hop room. Only two varieties were there: Northern Brewer
and Cascade. The NB is for the steam and Cascade is for Liberty. I don't
know what they use for the Porter or others. Nothern Brewer is added to the
boil in three additions, and in about equal proportions. One at the
beginning, one about half-way through and one near the end. I understand
that Liberty is made with 100% Cascade (also in three boil additions plus
dry hopping).
>General discussion about which Anchor products are dry hopped...
I was fortunate enough to interview Fritz for my article on Dry Hopping (due
out shortly in the summer Zymurgy) so I think I can speak with some
authority (is that a pun?) on the subject. Only three Anchor products are
dry hopped: Liberty, Foghorn (barley wine) and the Christmas Ale. The rest
are not. Anchor's dry hop rate for Liberty is "approximately" 2 ounces per
five gallons and the hops are added in the conditioning tank and left for
about two weeks.
>General discussion about fermentation...fermenters are shallow copper
pans..
The shallow fermenters are made of stainless steel. They are used for both
the steam beer and the porter. I was told that fermentation temperature was
55F. The same yeast is used for the steam and porter. All other beers are
fermented in deep, open top ale tanks with a "traditional" ale yeast, also
at 55F.
One other important note: Just as we know to adjust bitter hop rates based
on the alpha acid ratings, Anchor also adjusts the late and dry hop
additions according to the oil content. I'm proud to announce that my
company (HopTech) will be rating all its aroma hops with oil content in
addition to alpha acid. Hops will be available in mid-June. If you want to
get our catalog when printed (currently in process), then send a postcard
to: HopTech, POB 2172, Danville, CA, 94526 or you can call 1-800-DRY-HOPS
and leave a message. You could also fax to (510) 736-7950. Don't expect to
get anything till the first week of June.
Mark Garetz
HopTech
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 13:34:35 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones@ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Is this Stainless Steel any good?
I recently found an old industrial-size coffee brewer for sale for
$50. It has a 14 gallon stainless steel pot, with lid, enclosed in a
SS case. It includes a bunch of auxilliary gear; such as heater, temp
controller, timer, valving, thermometer, etc. which I figure might be
useful in my brewing endeavours, especially if I decide to build a
RIMS. (Note that all of these parts are of questionable operating
condition.)
The problem is, this unit has been sitting outside in the rain for
quite some time. The SS pot (the component I'm really after) has quite
a few rust spots. This is not too surprising; I've seen other
stainless items which rusted after exposure to severe conditions. The
pot is a non-magnetic grade of stainless (and no, its not aluminum).
My question is, is this pot worth the money? I've no doubt that I could
remove the spots with a steel wool pad and some elbow grease, however,
does the fact that it is spotted indicate that the SS steel may be an
inferior grade, unsuitable for wort boiling? Are there types of SS
which one would not want to use for brewing?
What is the group wisdom on this? Any metallurgists out there who can
comment on "rusted stainless"?
Thanks,
Kelly <k-jones@ee.utah.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:58:00 +0000
From: "Bill (W.R.) Crick" <heybc@bnr.ca>
Subject: Removing labels?
Why would you want to remove the labels? I'm not sure. Most of my old
stubbies still have the labels on them, although after 10 years,
some are getting unreadable;-)
Just a hint on how to label homebrew so you know what is what.
Condense name down to a TLA (two, or three letters) Write this on
to of cap with indelible magic marker. This takes about 2 seconds
per bottle. It requires caps with no cutesy logos or anything on
them. Some letter combos are real fast like Mohawk Mild -> MM
which is just four connected squiggles.
Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Sum
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 20:28:39 GMT
From: Martin Wilde <martin@gamma.intel.com>
Subject: Usage of hops in Anchor Steam
In Digest #1139, Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> writes:
>BOILING AND HOPPING
>Anchor boils for one and a half hours [3] with whole hops [5,6] added
>throughout the boil [3]. They use "a significant amount" of Northern Brewer
>hops [1], and bitter at a level of 33 IBUs [1], although others have claimed
>the rate is 40 IBUs [4]. I am inclined to believe the lower figure since it
>comes from Fritz himself. The quantity of hops used is approximately 1 pound
>per barrel [6], which (if I am correct that a barrel is about 31 US gallons),
>amounts to a shade over 2 and 1/2 ounces per 5-gallon batch.
If you use this amount of hops, you will definitely get a hoppy beer. You
have to remember hop utilization increases with batch size. Most brewers I
have talked to when they brew a 15 gallon pilot batch and then scale up to
20-60 barrels will cut back on the hops by 10% to allow for the increased
utilization.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 16:43:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Donovan Bodishbaugh <dfb@acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: Hop Isomerization
In the May 7 HBD, Ed Westemeier wrote:
" alpha acids in hops are... isomerized (which means the molecules are
formed into long chains)."
This was a good expose on light-struck beer. Isomerization,
however, is not the formation of long chains of molecules. That's
polymerization. Isomerization is the rearrangement of the structural
configuration of a molecule, without changing the general molecular
formula. The simple sugars fructose and glucose are isomers, both having
the formula C6H12O6. The enzyme which interconverts these forms during
cellular metabolism is called isomerase. I think hop alpha-acid
isomerization refers to the conversion of the straght-chain form to the
iso (branched) form. I think Miller's book has a good discussion of this.
Anally Yours from the Wonderful World of Biochemistry,
DFB
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 23:13:31
From: Gary.Cote@leotech.MV.COM (Gary Cote)
Subject: recipes
Hi All
I am looking for recipes about a few styles of beer mentioned in a
book
first printed in 1932. The name of the book is The Homemade Beer
Book.
The four styles are as follows.
"Chica" A south american beer made fermented malt of indian corn.
"Purl" A verity of amber beer formerly in demand in London but now
obsolete.
"Quarf" A Russin beer made from rye.
"Twopenny" An amber beer containing licorice and capsicum, used as a
stimulant in cold weather.
Any help with these would be great!!!
Thanks Gary Cote
gcote@leotech.mv.com
- --
gcote@leotech.mv.com
* Origin: Leo Technology (603)432-2517/432-0922 (HST/V32)
(1:132/189)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 22:41 CDT
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Slow Learner
>From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
< My C-P bottler is down for re-design so I bought a bunch of commercial
stuff to take to a party...
>And I thought you could just pull the tap and decarbonate the beer into a
bottle!
I admit to being a slow learner (must be struck by lightening 3 times) but
when I get it, I not only admit my errors but usually become a crusader.
> Wait a minute, didnt you follow the "how to build a CP filler" that
I sent you :-)
Don't recall but I bumbled around and made (and re-made) one that works like
a champ.
In all fairness, you can fill a bottle from a tap, if the beer is cold, the
bottle is colder and retain good drinking carbonation but not enough to
produce much of a head.
>Utter nonsense! I live in the Washington DC area where the canned Guiness
was test marketed, and I can attest to absolutely GREAT canned Guinness.
There is nothing silly about a device that works, and works well.....
I do believe it is the best canned beer I have ever had.
We can simply agree to disagree on this one. I chose not to squander my
daily beer ration by finishing the glass.
< Take the coloring out of Beck's Dark and you have Beck's regular. It seems
a bit more beerish but hardly in line with the color.
>This is a bit harsh, no? There are dark malt notes in Becks, albeit not
like a Munchner Dunkles.
Perhaps a bit harsh but I humbly propose that "a bit more beerish but hardly
in line with the color" translates nicely into, "There are dark malt notes
in Becks, albeit not like a Munchner Dunkles".
I think we said the same thing.
< The good news (strike me dead) was Miller Reserve Pale Ale....
>Still gotta wonder about "all barley". Sure doesnt sound like "all malt" to
me.
I think one can make a case for the interpretation being NO RICE or CORN, i.e
the only grain used being barley. One can claim to make an all barley/malt
beer and still keep cost down by using sugar to get the gravity up enough to
produce the proper amount of alcohol. The body and character of the all malt
lager would suggest this approach.
js
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1140, 05/13/93
*************************************
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