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HOMEBREW Digest #1130
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/04/29 08:53:17
HOMEBREW Digest #1130 Thu 29 April 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Don O'Connor's Beer, Premier Malt (Mark Garetz)
Headhunters May Meeting (W. Chicago 'burbs) (Hi-keeba!)
Who's responsible for micrbrewing?? (Todd M. Williams)
wishlist from vienna/berlin... (Todd M. Williams)
Re: Problem with Nottingham Yeast (LYONS)
N2 and beer / hops (Ed Hitchcock)
Re: Chimay yeast (John Adams)
Belgium Wheat Malt & Biscuit (Jim Busch)
Re: Alcohol and other drugs (Troy Howard)
Easy Yeast Culturing 3 (Troy Howard)
Mashing on an Electric Coil Stove (David Ferguson)
Bottliing Scotch Whiskey (MCGLEW, RAY)
Re: Alcohol and other drugs (colesa)
RIMS, vent pipe, and channeling (J. Michael Burgeson)
Nottingham/Whitbread/hop growth (korz)
Dominion Brewing (gorman)
Decocting and Concocting (Jeff Frane)
Micros using dry yeast? (LYONS)
Update to Pub list (jmellby)
Re: CO2 cartridges (Tim Norris)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 18:15:47
From: garetz@brahms.amd.com (Mark Garetz)
Subject: Don O'Connor's Beer, Premier Malt
George Fix asks about Don O'Connor's beer.
I can personally atest to the high quality of Don's (and wife Lynne's)
beers. As to why he doesn't enter competitions, I'll let Don answer that one
but I suspect the beers would fare well. I'll also give Don a chance to
post the story on the "O-Ring" beer. It was very interesting and in fact
published in their latest newsletter (St. Patricks of Austin).
"Bob" asks about Premier Malt Products yellow can:
I read somewhere that Premier Malt Products had picked up the license to
distribute the old "Pabst Blue Ribbon" extract. I think it was in the first
issue of that supposedly funny brew paper out of Michigan.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 0:43:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: BIRMINGH@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Hi-keeba!)
Subject: Headhunters May Meeting (W. Chicago 'burbs)
The May meeting of the Headhunters homebrew club will happen on
Friday, May 7, from 7-11 PM. The meeting will be at Greg Lawrence's
place, 4 S 245 Wiltshire Lane, in Sugar Grove, IL. Bring beer or wine
and munchies.
For more information, call Greg evenings at (708) 557-2523, or
e-mail me at birmingham@fne683.fnal.gov
Phillip Birmingham
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 03:10:19 CDT
From: todd@gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams)
Subject: Who's responsible for micrbrewing??
Boy that guy in Boston(tm) does not give it a break....the new radio ads
here in Chicago(tm) treat us to Jim(tm) Koch(tm) telling us how he practically
invented the "microbrewery"(tm) and how the "big guys"(tm) spill more beer than
he makes in a year. I'm geting really tired of this guys crap and shall
continue to not drink his products. I also will continue to tell everyone
I know/meet, about his never ending shenanigans. I urge y'all to do the same.
This guy could give a lot of politicians a run for their (read:our) money.
Sigh...Sorry...had to get that off my chest...I feel better now...thank you.
Todd(tm) (starving a lawyer, by not drinking SA(tm))
Downers Grove(tm), IL.(tm)
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
/ -rwxr-xr-x 1 todd employer 69 Feb 10 1958 OPINIONS(tm) \
\ lrwxrwxrwx 1 employer other 9 Jan 01 1970 OPINIONS -> /dev/null /
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 05:24:06 CDT
From: todd@gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams)
Subject: wishlist from vienna/berlin...
My Mom is going to Berlin and Vienna, and has offered to bring
home some beer for me. Any Suggestions??? She will probably only
bring a few. Which are the best. Can weiss yeast from German beer
be cultured? As has been discussed, the stuff that is shipped to the
States is pasturized, or shipped with different yeast. Help...she's
leaving on Saturday May 1st. Please email replies to me directly.
Thanks muchly,
Todd Williams
Downers Grove, IL.
todd@rtsg.mot.com
Moderation sir, aye, moderation is my rule. 9 or 10 is reasonable
refreshment, but after that it's apt to degenerate into drinking.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:08 EST
From: LYONS@adc2.adc.ray.com
Subject: Re: Problem with Nottingham Yeast
>This is my second batch with nottingham ale yeast. After 48 hrs, still no
>activity. With my first batch after 48 hrs I gave up and pitched a different
>yeast which promptly got the bubbles going. Is Nottingham a particularly
>slow starting yeast ? For info, the OG was 1.052 and I rehydrated the yeast
>"by the book". I'm getting real nervous about letting it sit with no
>activity (68 deg F) although I use an airlock.
I've used both Nottingham and Windsor. As a side note I
preferred the Windsor. However, the packages are rather small
... I believe containing approximately only 5 grams. Since the
pitching rate is important in terms of the lag time, I have been
adding two packages of Nottingham for a single batch. This is still
less yeast than a single package of Whitbread. The lag time
I've experienced, when pitching at 60F is approximately 1 day.
On lag times like this I occansionly shake the primary until
notable fermentation kicks in. IMHO I think this helps reduce
the lag time.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1993 11:26:31 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH@ac.dal.ca>
Subject: N2 and beer / hops
Jack writes:
>The results are very interesting but I am not sure it is worth the trouble or
>expense. I have done 3 batches with this set up and although each one acts a
>little different, the common ground is a head that builds from the bottom up
>in a very peculiar manner. The beer can come out of the tap without a bubble
>and fill the glass with foam but it disipates in seconds, leaving about an
>inch that will stay for hours if you don't drink it.
>
>What is interesting is that typical foam leaves a mostly empty glass when it
>dissipates but this foam just turns to beer. I c-p bottled some and took it
>to a CBS meeting and it acts the same way when poured from the bottle. It is
>really fun to watch.
>
>I put it in the catagory of cute but not sure what value it has for
Although perhaps impractical as Jack mentions, it does provide
aesthetics. To some, good head is part of a fine beer, but heavy
carbonation may add an acidic tang, and deffinitely makes for a *fizzy*
product. By nitrogenating the beer, you get good head without the soda pop
fizz. The reason for this is, as Jack discovered, N2 is virtually
insoluble in water at low pressures, which is why the pressure didn't drop
in the keg. Ideally the beer in the keg should be naturally carbonated
(primed like a Real Ale) before being dispensed this way, not force
carbonated. Force carbonating defeats the purpose. The insolubility of
nitrogen is the reason for the small bubbles, the beer gets "the bends" when
it comes out of the tap.
**********************************
Can anyone send me the phone number or FAX number for Freshops, or
any other hop supplier? The planting time is almost past* and my local
supply fell through...
*This is Nova Scotia...it snowed last night.
___
/ \ \ Ed Hitchcock +<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>+
| 0 \ Dept of Anatomy & Neurobiology + Drink +
| > Dalhousie University + Noise / Make +
| 0 / Beer Wasteland + Beer +
\___/ / ech@ac.dal.ca +<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 08:43:12 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams@hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Chimay yeast
I talked with one of Coors' microbiologists last night related to
Chimay yeast strain quesition. He studied for his brewing PhD. in
Belgium so I highly value both his acedemic and professional opinions.
He informed me that Chimay only uses ONE yeast and you can observe this
is your cultures. Not all trappists styles use a single strain. His
recommendation was to use Chimay if you wish to culture a trappist
style yeast.
John Adams
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 11:28:38 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Belgium Wheat Malt & Biscuit
Hi all,
I like to brew german HefeWeizens using 70% wheat malt, and
following a decoction procedure as described by Eric Warner
in his excellent book on weizens. The last two batches I
made used DeWolf Cosyns Wheat malt. In both cases, my extract
efficiency was way off. I used to use Bavarian wheat malt
and always had great results. This is a bothersome result,
but it could be due to other factors, notably both of these
batches were produced in my newer brewery and it is possible
that my decoctions are not as before. I am looking for
feedback from the digest with respect to yields when using
this wheat malt. Email me at busch@daacdev1.stx.com
The results are in from my latest celebration clone. I used
a small percent of Biscuit in addition to large amounts of
caramel malts. The biscuit resulted in an extremely pleasing
light "roasted" character. It is subtle but evident. The
ale is on the dark side of a pale ale, but the complexity and
maltiness/roasted character is blending well with the spiceyness
of Cascade and Centennial hops. The biscuit malt would seem
ideal for use in Scotch Ales and other darker ales and even
in small quantities in amber ales.
Good brewing,
jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 08:46:53 PDT
From: troy@scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard)
Subject: Re: Alcohol and other drugs
In 1129 Ted Manahan writes:
>We also need to be vigilant against someone deciding they know what is
>best for us. The potential for abuse does not justify taking away the
>liberty to use. This certainly holds true for other substances. The
>current "war on drugs" is a prime example of creating criminals out of
>honest citizens, just as prohibition created criminals out of honest
>drinkers.
>
>The main effect of the "war on drugs" is to guarantee a monopoly on drug
>profits to those willing to break the law. What newspapers call "drug
>related violence" is really money related violence - the most common drug
>related violence is bar fights between drunk people.
>
>It is foolish to self righteously decry the attacks neo prohibitionists
>are making, while failing to see the connection with our own intolerance
>of, for instance, marijuana use. Homebrewers need to be aware that
>intolerance is contagious. People with "Zero Tolerance" will quickly see
>that alcohol is more dangerous than most illegal drugs. The urge to
>control people's behavior soon extends to everything we personally don't
>do.
I would like to express my whole-hearted agreement with Ted on this issue.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Excellent post!
Oh, by the way, Ted, may I suggest some flame-proof long-johns for the next
couple of weeks :-)
Troy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 08:57:16 PDT
From: troy@scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard)
Subject: Easy Yeast Culturing 3
Another data point for Easy Yeast Culturing:
I bottled my beer this past weekend. The Easy Cultured Yeast did a very
nice job. Dropped the gravity down from 79 to 18 (perfect). The
dopplebock tastes GREAT!
This allays one of the fears that I had when I started this experiment, i.e.,
that the yeast would not be viable. Now I guess the only remaining concern
I have is how long will they remain viable.
I'll keep you posted.
Troy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:30:33 PDT
From: David Ferguson <davidfer@microsoft.com>
Subject: Mashing on an Electric Coil Stove
I am a semi-experienced homebrewer contemplating my first all grain
batch. I'm wondering though if I will be able to use an electric stove
to maintain the precise temeratures needed for a successful mash. I
have an old klunker with red hot, hot, less hot and warm settings. Has
anyone had any success on similar stoves? any suggestions on ways to
buffer the radical temperature changes between settings (like placing
the brew kettle over a pot of water perhaps)?
Thanks for any advice, direct replies are welcome and encouraged as usual.
Dave Ferguson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 16:04
From: RMCGLEW.BUSSYS@mhssmtp.mdso.vf.ge.com (MCGLEW, RAY)
Subject: Bottliing Scotch Whiskey
The Scotch in the barrells is VERY flammable and can be considered
a hazardous material with a flash point of about 110 deg F. I suggest
that you let me handle this hazmat in a way that will prevent another
Waco incident in your neighborhood!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:17:45 -0600
From: colesa@spot.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Re: Alcohol and other drugs
I must applaud Ted Manahan's article in HBD #1129 on the use of drugs,
drinking of alcolholic beverages and the moral soapbox some people get on
when speaking of "illegal drugs".
I have had many an argument with those who believe it's fine to drink, but
reprehensible to use other drugs. The laws of biochemistry don't care what
is legal or not. I simply don't agree with being told what to do for _MY_
own good. My body is my own, and by that same philosophy I cannot force my
views about drinking or drugs on anyone else, but merely point out
hypocrisy when I see it.
Thanks Ted!
Replies by e-mail are welcome.
Cheers!
Adam Coles * I'm not giving in to security under pressure
Senior, Bioengineering * I'm not missing out on the promise of adventure
College of Aerospace * I'm not giving up on implausible dreams
CU Boulder * Experience to extremes, experience to extremes
colesa@spot.colorado.edu * -N. Peart
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:33:52 -0700
From: Michael.Burgeson@Eng.Sun.COM (J. Michael Burgeson)
Subject: RIMS, vent pipe, and channeling
I am putting together a RIMS system, and have been reviewing designs
and discussions from past HBDs. I am most interested in the topics
of grain bed compaction and channeling of liquor through the grain
bed.
In HBD #1088, Bob Jones posted concerns about grain bed compaction
in RIMS systems. He related that he was unable to get a 10 gal.
setup to work properly.
In HBD #806, Alan Gerhardt posted an article about his RIMS system.
Alan's system included a vent pipe which extended above the grain
bed from the copper pipe manifold on the bottom of the mash/lauter
tun. I think the use of a vent pipe would go a long way toward
reducing the compaction problem. Bob, did you try a vent pipe?
Having a pipe going through the grain bed reminded me of a previous
discussion on the HBD about channeling in the grain bed. A vent pipe
would provide the perfect opportunity for the recirculating liquor
to channel to the bottom of the tun, avoiding the grain bed.
With a RIMS system, channeling during the mash would not be a problem.
I am concerned about channeling during the sparge. Two methods of
sparging come to mind. First there is the conventional method of
"slowly add sparge water while draining off decreasing gravity wort".
The other method would be "dump sparge water in, then recirculate".
If I used the latter method, I think channeling would become a minor
concern; you could just recirculate longer to overcome the reduced
efficiency due to channeling. The drawback would be the need for
a tun with enough volume to hold all your grain, mash water and sparge
water. Your efficiency would also suffer using this method.
I plan to use the former method, but the conventional method is
susceptible to poor efficiency due to channeling around the vent pipe.
What I would like to propose is using a vent pipe, but running it
outside the mash/lauter tun. I also want to use a manifold above
the grain bed, submersed in the hot liquor, to reduce splashing.
| |
|| | |
v || | |
e || |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
n || | ===manifold================================ < IN
t || | |
|| | 1" - 2" hot liquor |
p || | |
i || |-------------------------|
p || | |
e || | GRAIN BED |
|| | |
\.======manifold================================ > OUT
| |
`-------------------------'
Can anyone see potential problems with this configuration? Am I overly
concerned with channeling?
tx,
- --mik
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 14:36 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Nottingham/Whitbread/hop growth
Jpetty writes:
>This is my second batch with nottingham ale yeast. After 48 hrs, still no
>activity. With my first batch after 48 hrs I gave up and pitched a different
>yeast which promptly got the bubbles going. Is Nottingham a particularly
>slow starting yeast ? For info, the OG was 1.052 and I rehydrated the yeast
>"by the book". I'm getting real nervous about letting it sit with no
>activity (68 deg F) although I use an airlock.
Some of the batches of beer that I've made with Nottingham took some time
to start, but eventually everything worked out alright. You said that
you followed rehydration methods "by the book." Well, there has been
some contradictory information on rehydration in the past. Some descriptions
fail to mention a temperature differential between the "starter" and the wort.
I contend that this is still very important. You rehydrate the yeast in
plain water between 104F and (I believe) 115F and then let it sit between
15 and 30 minutes, right? Then you dump this 8 ounce "starter" into 5 gallons
of 65F wort. This will definately shock the yeast. What I do with dry
yeasts, is rehydrate them in 104F boiled water and then let them sit for
30 minutes in a covered (with plastic wrap) pyrex measuring cup. In those
30 minutes, the "starter" has cooled to about 85F. I then pitch this into
my wort which I have intentionally only cooled to 80F (instead of the usual
70F) and aerated well. Even with this procedure, one batch took 48 hours to
start.
For Wyeast batches, I warm the package to 70F and then pop the nutrient
pack. This gets incubated at 70F and then pitched into a 70F starter.
That gets subsequently gets pitched into a 70F wort. Positive pressure
is obvious in the airlock/blowoff hose after 12 hours and kraeusen is
formed in 24.
*****************
Ted writes about alcohol and the "war on drugs."
Theoretically, I feel that it is not the government's job to protect
us from ourselves. Let's face it... many things that are good in
moderation are bad in excess. Then there are the things that are
legal although there has been no evidence of any positive effects from
these substances -- case in point: tobacco. Alcohol can be abused,
but so can model airplane glue and aspirin and caffeine and automobiles
and Whipped-cream propellants and... Education on the dangers and
*reasonable* warning labels, and then "buyer beware." That's my position.
******************
Chris writes:
>I enjoyed George's posting on the history of Whitbread. I
>unfortunately have been getting the 12 gram packages, which I now
>understand to be very old. I would like to try the new Whitbread
>out (the one with similar characterisitics to Wyeast London Ale
>yeast). How is this new product packaged? Any information on how
>to identify this particular Whitbread from the other two would be
>appreciated.
I thought it was the 14 gm packages that were the "old variety" and
the 12 gm packages that are the "new variety," but I could have it
backwards. I didn't particularly like the "black-bread-crust" flavor
of Whitbread Ale and thus chose to use other yeasts instead of Whitbread,
so I don't have any personal experience with it.
*************************
I wrote:
>had experience in judging or writing about beer. Also too bad that they missed
>Young's Special London Ale, Samuel Smith's Tadcaster Porter, Oatmeal Stout
>and Imperial Stout and Mackeson's XXX Stout.
Subsequently *I* missed Fullers ESB!
I wrote:
>There were several posters speculating about the climbing of hops, suggesting
>that perhaps they are simply following the sun, which causes clockwise (as
>viewed from the top) growth in the northern hemisphere. Yes, it's the plant
>following the sun.
But then POLLARD writes:
>you all. I can't contribute much there, but I do know a thing or two
>about botany. Twining of vines appears to be unrelated to either sunshine
>(they do the same under artificial light) or coreolis effect (I believe
>they may have even tested it in the space shuttle). It is controlled by
>internal factors related to planes of cell division and distribution of
>plant hormones. Some species are innately counterclockwise twiners, and
>others, like hops, go clockwise. Yes, it is conventionally viewed from
>the plant's point of "view", looking up. An unsupported hop shoot, viewed
I guess I should have left it to the botanists to give the final word.
Everything that I had read had said that the plants were "following the
sun," but then again, mine were all homebrewing-related sources and not
botany texts/journals/etc.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 16:00:29 EDT
From: gorman@aol.com
Subject: Dominion Brewing
>From: roy.rudebusch@travel.com
>Subject: Old Dominion Brewing Co.
>In Ashburg, Virginia.
>How are their beers, in general?
>Do they have any particularily good ones? Are they a Micro or a brewpub?
Dominion Brewing (Ashburn, VA) is a microbrewery located in the flight path
of Dulles Airport, outside Washington, DC
They brew several year-round beers, Dominion Ale, Dominion Lager, Dominion
Stout and perhaps others I've forgotten. They also produce seasonal brews,
the Christmas Ale was excellent, the current a Spring Bock I've yet to taste.
They also produce "house recipe" beers for a growing number of metro-DC area
bars.
They conduct tours on Saturday afternoons, call 703-860-BEER for details.
Last time I went, the president, Jerry Bailey, gave an excellent tour.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 14:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Decocting and Concocting
David McDow asks about decoction mashing:
>I would like to learn more about decoction mashing. If anyone would
>care to share their method I'd be appreciative.
Particularly if you're interested in real wheat beers, you should pick
up a copy of Eric Warner's book on German Wheat Beers, published by the
AHA. Eric's decoction procede is straight-forward and easy enough to
accomplish (particularly on the stove), plus it makes a killer beer.
Greg Noonan's book on Lager Beer contains a much more complicated and
much longer decoction mash. Judging from my reading in other sources,
Noonan's procedure is unnecessarily complicated given the malts we have
to work with these days and you should be able to use Eric's method for
other beers as well.
From: LYONS@adc3.adc.ray.com
Subject: Micros using dry yeast?
>In George Fix's recent posts he mentions that Whitbread distributes
>their dry yeast to HB shops and micros. I am surprised to read that
>micros would use dry yeast. Does anyone know which micros use which
>dry yeasts? I would like to sample these beers and make my own
>judgement on the use of dry yeasts.
>Chris
There was a time a few years ago when it seemed every brewpub in
California was using Whitbread yeast, either their ale yeast or their
"lager" (which made remarkably ale-like lagers!). This was apparently
due to the influence of UC Davis' Michael Lewis, who was busy convincing
potential brewpub owners/brewers that anything else was too complicated
and not worth the effort. The results were pretty spotty, and
convenient or not, the yeast apparently did not respond well to
re-pitching, which meant the brewer had to keep buying more. I wrote a
report about a trip through the brewpubs back in 1988 or so and singled
out one horrible example in Santa Rosa. Byron Burch wrote to say that,
ordinarily, the pub turned out very good beer but that they'd had some
real problems with their dry yeast (Whitbread -- and by-now familiar
problems). The local homebrewers stayed away until the beer was cleaned
up (although why the brewery was serving such awful stuff, I don't
know).
I don't know for sure, but I suspect brewers down there have become a
little more sophisticated in the last few years, and learned that "easy"
is not always the best choice.
- --Jeff Frane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 15:53:11 -0500
From: jmellby@iluvatar.dseg.ti.com
Subject: Update to Pub list
The latest additions to my Publist have been made available on the
Homebrew archive at sierra.stanford.edu in the pub/homebrew/docs
directory, thanks to Stephen Hansen. The file is publist.Z
(compressed with UNIX compress I believe). Listserver users just need
to say "get homebrew publist".
This list includes brewpubs, pubs, restaurants, and beer (liquor)
stores which have good beer. There are also some microbreweries,
home-brew shops and the like, but these are not as complete.
The goal of this is to give travelers a reference on where to
find good beers including sources to buy bottles to bring home.
My database which parses and searches this list currently says:
#Done reading in the pub db, Pubdb Version 1.2 July 1, 1991
#Recognized a total of 1417 pubs from 18 countries and 582 cities.
---- (and the like)
I am trying to port the search program over from Sun to a PC,
but don't hold your breath until the C++ class I'm teaching is over.
If you have any information especially about new brewpubs or
beer pubs, brewpub closings, or useful notes/corrections
please send me a message
John R. Mellby Texas Instruments
jmellby@iluvatar.dseg.ti.com (214)517-5370 <h> (214)575-6125 <w>
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 93 22:31:49 EDT
From: Tim Norris <71650.1020@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: CO2 cartridges
Steve,
You can also get the CO2 cartridges used for Seltzer bottles, the kind
that let you make and dispense your own.. I've never actually tried the
sporting goods store route. I've always used the small CO2 carts used for
Seltzer. Should still cost a lot less than Nitrous. They come in a package
quite similar to the Nitrous carts.
The ultimate would be to rig an adapter that goes from the 5L tapper gas
thing to a real CO2 tank with a good regulator. In my experience, those
ggas cartridges leak a lot. I seem to lose 1/2 my gas before I dispense
any beer.
If I find an adapter, I'll let you know.
Tim Norris
Chicago
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1130, 04/29/93
*************************************
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