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HOMEBREW Digest #1120
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/04/15 10:13:31
HOMEBREW Digest #1120 Thu 15 April 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Seeking Albuquerque & Santa Fe beer recommendations (Dave Shaver)
Guinness in cans (Brew me 13-Apr-1993 1311 -0400)
tips gleaned from Anchor brewing tour (tims)
Short answer on chiller size (Paul dArmond)
SPECTROPHOTOMETER WANTED (GARETZ)
RE: PH METER FOR AA% (GARETZ)
Re : Blowoff (fusels, etc.) (Conn Copas)
Reuse of bottles in USA ("Rad Equipment")
gushers (colesa)
Zima Review & Thanks (Troy Howard)
Recipe: Bigfoot Jr. (Ed Kesicki)
Mashing temps for De Cosyns Belgian malts? ("Carl J. Appellof")
Re: Boulevard Brewing Co (If wishes were cows)
How not to filter beer (John Isenhour)
RE: rotten egg smell (Daren Stotler)
Drinking in Albuquerque, Buffalo, & Toronto ("Anderso_A")
Yeast Propagation ("Anderso_A")
hops primer (Russ Gelinas)
Milling nightmare ("Bob Jones")
Wort Chillers (Bob_Konigsberg)
Cheap Hop Rhizomes (David Pike)
Chicago stakeout... ("ROBERT W. HOSTETLER")
re: Lab equip (Bill Szymczak)
Equations for wort chiller and immersion heater length (14-Apr-1993 1341)
dry-hopping, pitching rates ("Knight,Jonathan G")
Search for good Beer ("Anderso_A")
Beer Chillers (hjl)
dry hopping versus hop tea (Peter Maxwell)
Zymurgy article copy request (WHATEVER IT TAKES)
Guinness Stout (Imperial) Recipe (Mike Lemons)
Wyeast Bohemian Lager yeast (Jay Hersh)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 12:27:05 CDT
From: shaver@zeppelin.convex.com (Dave Shaver)
Subject: Seeking Albuquerque & Santa Fe beer recommendations
I'm looking for recommendations for brewpubs and the like in the
Albuquerque and Santa Fe areas. I've done some research, and here's
what I've found so far. I'm looking for confirmation and updates to
this information.
I looked at all the 1990-1993 HBDs (issues 335-1118) and found this
information (edited to conserve bandwidth):
| Date: 16 Jan 90 12:25:00 MST
| From: "2645 RUTH, GUY R." <grruth@sandia.gov>
|
| Richard Tatz (former brewmaster at Santa Fe Brewing Co.) says that a
| real estate developer will be opening up a brewpub close to the
| University of New Mexico in Albuquerque this year.
This must have not happened based on comments below.
| Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 09:17:54 -0800
| From: sami@scic.intel.com
| Subject: Brewpubs in Santa Fe, etc...
|
| [...] It seems that there is a local microbrewery, but no brewpubs.
| Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 10:13:43 -0600
| From: 105277@essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
| Subject: SF Brews (That's Santa Fe - the original SF :-)
|
| There are no brew pubs in Santa Fe. Embudo Station (on the way up
| to Taos) is the closest. It's probably about a 45 min drive but very
| pretty and worth going. Santa Fe Pale Ale is brewed at the Galisto
| Brewing Company just south-east of Santa Fe. It's not a brew pub but
| they will give you a tour (I think just on the weekends unless you
| arrange otherwise). If you just want to try the beers you can get any
| that are available at The Royal Buck on Galisto Street in Santa Fe.
| They have a pretty good selection of beer and they carry "Santa Fe"
| beers from the Galisto Brewery which are not available in bottles
| anywhere but at the brewery. Of course there are good beer drinking
| establishments in Albuquerque too.
| Date: Sun, 28 Jun 92 00:11:15 CDT
| From: bliss@csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
| Subject: brewpubs in albuquerque
|
| check out billy's long bar. they have 22 taps running, [...] Let's
| see, Watney's Cream Ale & Stout, Guiness, Bass, Anchor Porter/
| Steam/Liberty Ale, all the Paulaner Beers, and more. They also have
| yards [...] and the most gorgeous bartendresses I've seen in my life
| Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 11:32 EST
| From: "JOSEPH V. GERMANI" <GERMANI%NSLVAX@Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu>
|
| [...] By the way, I hear that there is a small brewery half way between
| Santa Fe and Taos that makes a good green chili beer. I think
| that it is called Embudo Station.
The brewpub database contains these entries (again, with some edits):
| - Pub List -
| November 12, 1992
|
| New Mexico -- Albuquerque:
| Albuquerque Brewing
| Microbrewery. As of '89 they were also planning a brewpub.
| Oops sorry! They are reported closed.
So, are they dead or alive? :-)
| Billy's Long Bar
| Bar with 22 taps, yard glasses.
|
| New Mexico -- Embudo:
| Embudo Station
| Brewpub on the way to Taos (from Santa Fe). (Is this the same
| as Preston Brewery?)
| Preston Brewery - P.O. Box 154; 87531 (505)852-4707
| Microbrewery, aka Sangre De Cristo Brewing
|
| New Mexico -- Santa Fe:
| Royal Buck, The - Galisto St
| Pub. "They have a pretty good selection of beer and they carry
| 'Santa Fe' beers from the Galisto Brewery which are not available in
| bottles. <Geoff Reeves "105277@essdp1.lanl.gov">
| Russell Brewing Co.
| Microbrewery
| Santa Fe Brewing Co - State Rd 41 (Flying M Ranch); 87540 (505)988-2340
| Microbrewery producing Santa Fe Pale Ale. Tours. In the (suburb)
| Galisteo
|
| New Mexico -- Taos:
| Chili Connection, The
| Restaurant
| Eske's: A Brewpub/Sangre de Cristo Brewing Co
| Brewpub
|
| New Mexico -- Tijeras:
| Manzano Mountain Brewing Co - No. 3 Los Alamitos Dr; 87059 (505)283-5303
| Microbrewery
Addresses and contact information that is missing would be nice. Thanks
for any additions or corrections you can make!
/\ Dave Shaver
\\ CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX
\/ Internet: shaver@convex.com UUCP: uunet!convex!shaver
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 10:14:24 PDT
From: Brew me 13-Apr-1993 1311 -0400 <ferguson@zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Guinness in cans
Does anyone have any word with regard to Guinness draught in cans making
its way to more locations in the US? Currently, I've heard they are
available in Wash DC, San Fran, and one other place. I live in the Boston
area and I've been relying on my Irish comrades to supply me - I'm really
surprised that Boston was not chosen as a "test" site for the canned
draught Guinness, which, IMO, is _very_ authentic.
I've heard that this summer we may see more of these. Anyone else know
more about them? I wouldn't mind seeing the Murphey's in cans here as
well 'cuz they too are quite yummy!
JC Ferguson
Digital Equip. Corp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 11:11:34 -0700
From: tims@ssl.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: tips gleaned from Anchor brewing tour
Dear Folks,
I promised a while ago to report on some of
the things I learned during my recent trip to the Anchor
brewery. The folks there are very nice about giving tours
and information, and most of all free samples of their
various beers, all of which add up to a great visit if you
have the chance to go.
Since they are in the business to sell beer, I hope
you will patronize their products even as you attempt to
duplicate them using the information below.
Here are some random notes, scribbled hastily during
the tour. I can't guarantee the accuracy, but this is to
the best of my knowlege and scribbling.
- their Steam beer is mashed at three separate temperatures
- steam beer uses both pale and crystal malts, while the
Liberty Ale is 100% pale
- their wheat beer is 70% wheat malt
- The steam beer boil is 1.5 hours, with hops added throughout
the boil. It gets a 2 hour sparge.
- Steam and porter both use lager yeast, and are fermented
at 60 F.
- they reuse yeast after washing it.
- They use iodophor to santize their fermenting vessels
- Liberty Ale is dry hopped
- their steam beer is aged (lagered) at 50 F.
That's it. For you steam lovers like myself, the above info
and the net-lore that steam uses 100% Northern Brewers hops
should be able to come up with a pretty good match to the
beer, if you are the mashing type.
Good luck, Tim Sasseen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 11:32:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Short answer on chiller size
Make your chiller out of 30' of 3/8" OD soft copper tube.
The long answer is 120K, and I'll be glad to send it (in two handy <100K
chunks) to anyone who wants it.
P.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:12:06 -0700
From: GARETZ%EMAIL@AMD3.AMD.COM
Subject: SPECTROPHOTOMETER WANTED
I am looking for a cheap (as in almost free) used UV-VIS
spectrophotometer to be used in hop research for a book that I am
writing on hops. The intent is to come up with better bittering
formulas than exist in the literature today, taking many more of
the brewing variables into account. Spec specs:
Range: UV-VIS, usually 200nm to something
Bandwidth (aka slit width): 2nm or better
So check your surplus equipment closets and see if there's an
older model hanging around that no one wants any more. Or if you
live in the SF bay area and can get me access to an instrument in
a lab during off hours, that would work also. Reply by email to
mark.garetz@amd.com Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 10:02:46 -0700
From: GARETZ%EMAIL@AMD3.AMD.COM
Subject: RE: PH METER FOR AA%
Jack Schmidling is attempting to use a pH meter to measure hop
alpha acids.
I had asked this question of some hop experts and always got the
reply that the alpha acids were too weak to show up on a pH
meter. Jack, can you try this: Dilute the Chinnok tea with
distilled water by an amount intended to match the Saaz? tea's AA
and see if the pH matches the Saaz tea. That should tell us if
you are measuring the AAs or something else. I am also skeptical
that only a 5 minute boil got any AAs in the tea at all. I would
repeat the experiment with more water (say 1 litre) and do a 60
minute boil. This will give iso alpha acids, but should be
proportional. You might also try a methanol extraction rather
than water. This is a more common practice in the hop world.
Mark Garetz (new to the digest)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 19:44:52 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Blowoff (fusels, etc.)
Joseph writes:
>In fact, the last Liberty Ale I drank smelled and tasted strongly
of octanol or something similar. I was a bit surprised by it and
intend to try another bottle from a separate source, since I consider
it a defect ...
A professional brewer who was drinking with me (at the Brickskellar)
at the time said that it seemed "old." I'm not so sure; I've never
seen beer change in flavor this way in a bottle.<
Wine that has passed its peak is also sometimes described as 'fuselly' in
pseudo German. On another thread, I would have presumed that wine is aired
prior to consumption in order to permit unpleasant volatiles to escape, most
likely sulphur compounds.
- --
Conn V Copas
Loughborough University of Technology tel : +44 509 263171 ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : +44 509 610815
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas@lut.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: 13 Apr 1993 12:20:18 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment@rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Reuse of bottles in USA
Subject: Reuse of bottles in USA Time:11:27 AM Date:4/13/93
>They all use the _same_ standard bottle, they make it easy to
>return them to just about anyone, and just about any brewery
>can fill the bottles. Green ones, brown ones, etc. Being an >environmentally
concious person, I _really_ liked what I saw.
>The US of A is so caught up in making $$$ as quickly as possible
>that we'll probably never see anything like that...
In fact that used to be the way everybody did things. Well, almost. As little
as 20 years ago I was able to purchase bottled beer in cases of returnable
bottles. The beer came from Bartells in PA (I lived in NJ at that time) it was
around $3.50 a case plus $0.03 deposit per bottle. I also recall buying soda by
the case right from the plant in a refillable quart bottle around the same
time. All glass containers for beverages were at one time returnable for the
purpose of refilling. All milk was sold this way when I was a kid. While we
never saw a standardized bottle which could be used by any brewery, the
principle was certainly there.
I suspect that the practice was abandoned when the range of sales for any given
producer extended beyond where it was cost effective to reclaim the bottles.
For the big breweries this was not such an issue (hence the continued existence
of the "bar bottle") but for small regional or local brewers (or other beverage
producers) if you wanted to get a bigger market share you had to figure on the
loss of the container. Also one way to reduce or maintain the cost of a product
is to reduce the cost of the package. Cans also contributed to the elimination
of re-use containers.
Standardization of glass containers would go a long way toward facilatating the
re-use ethic. Alas there would be no end to the cries of "foul" if such a
suggestion were made. The idea of cross-use between industries alone would be
enough to get the neo-pros out of joint. "What?! Use the same bottle for milk,
soda, water, AND BEER, WINE, or WORSE!?!"
Don't expect it in our timelines. We can't even get the world to agree on a
measuring system! I can hear the Ayn Rand-ites coming for me now...
RW...Heretic at Large
Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment@radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 13:42:07 -0600
From: colesa@spot.Colorado.EDU
Subject: gushers
Recently my brewpartner and I bottled a Red ale. We were slightly
disturbed that fermentation had stopped so soon (after four days of very
high activity, the Spec. Gravity was the same for four more). We primed
with malt extract
(1 1/4 cup to 5 gal) and now about 1 in 3 bottles gush. Is it possible
fermentation was stalled that long and picked up in the bottle? This is
not a big problem, since we can easily open bottles over a sink, but I'd
like to be sure when fermentation is complete. Replies via e-mail are
welcome. Thanks in advance!
Adam Coles * I'm not giving in to security under pressure
Senior, Bioengineering * I'm not missing out on the promise of adventure
College of Aerospace * I'm not giving up on implausible dreams
CU Boulder * Experience to extremes, experience to extremes
colesa@spot.colorado.edu * -N. Peart
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 12:32:08 PDT
From: troy@scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard)
Subject: Zima Review & Thanks
Hey, folks:
I had my first taste of Zima this weekend, and thought I would post a
short review.
First, Relax. Beer it definately AINT. It calls itself a "clear malt
beverage". While I cannot testify on it being malt, it was a beverage and
certainly was clear.
COLOR: none
HEAD: none
HOPS: none
AROMA: sweet and slightly citrusy
TASTE: exactly like a vodka-seven (that's vodka and seven-up)
If you like 7-up, you'll love this drink. It was a little too sweet to be
refreshing, even on a hot day.
I won't buy any more. If I want something that tastes like Zima, I'll mix up
a vodka-7 myself. It'll be WAY cheaper.
*****************
Many thanks to all of you who responded to my plea for help on yeast culturing.
Your suggestions/advice/experience were very timely and helpful.
Cheers,
Troy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 16:22:06 -0700
From: ek@chem.UCSD.EDU (Ed Kesicki)
Subject: Recipe: Bigfoot Jr.
Here is a recipe for a beer similar in flavor to SN Bigfoot Ale, although
it is not quite as high in alcohol content. (OG of 70 compared to 95 for the
real bigfoot according to M. Jackson). Let's say it's Bigfoot Jr.
I wasn't attempting to make a clone, it just came out that way--maybe not
surprising since I used the SN yeast.
In fact, I had never tasted SN Bigfoot until after I had made this one,
and I found the flavor very similar.
SIERRA NEVADA BIGFOOT JR (4.5 gal batch):
10 lb 2-row pale malt
8 oz Dextrin malt
1 lb Amber crystal malt (40 deg L)
.25 cup Chocolate malt
2 tsp gypsum
Hops: 1.5 oz Northern Brewer loose hops,5.7% aa, 60 min boil.
1.0 oz Cascades loose hops, 5.5% aa, 60 min boil
(total of 14 AAU bittering)
0.5 oz Hallertauer pellets, last 5 min of boil
0.5 oz " " , end of boil, sat 10 min before chilling
Yeast: Sierra Nevada Yeast, cultured from two bottles
PROCEDURE:
Mash in: 130 deg. F 12 qts water (San Diego tap water, boiled+cooled)
Protein rest: 125 deg F 30 min
Mash temp: 155-146 deg F 1.25 hr
Mash out: 170 deg F 5 min
Sparge: approx 4-5 gal @ ~ 170 deg F
Total boil time of 1.5 hr, hops additions as noted above, chilled,
racked off trub
Final volume was 4.5 gal
Fermented in glass, temp in the low 60's Farenheit, used primary+secondary.
Two week fermentation
OG: 71 FG: 15
Primed with 1/2 cup corn sugar, bottled 2.5 gallons like this, which became
the Bigfoot Jr. The remailing 2 gal. was diluted up to 3 gal with water,
then bottled after adding a little more corn sugar (~1or2 tbsp). This
produced a very very good pale ale (Not at all bigfoot-like!) with a
more civilized alcohol content.
Please try it and let me know how it turns out.
Ed Kesicki
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 17:18:06 -0700
From: "Carl J. Appellof" <cja@chmist.zso.dec.com>
Subject: Mashing temps for De Cosyns Belgian malts?
Went to a presentation by Dr. Michael Lewis from U.C. Davis a few
weeks ago where he said that a temp. step mash was absolutely
essential to give best extract yeilds and fermentability when using
American lager malt (aka "klages" in this neck of the woods). He
also said that with British Pale Ale malt, a single temp infusion mash
was best. I get the idea that the mash temp profile really depends on
what your malt was designed for.
I have some Belgian Pilsner malt and Pale Ale malt from De Cosyns
maltings. Does anyone have info on the proper mash temps for these
two fine malts? (If I had to guess, I'd do a single temp 150F
infusion mash with the Pale Ale, and a temp step/ramp from
122F-142F-158F for the Pilsner malt.)
Carl J. Appellof
Carl J. Appellof (cja@chmist.zso.dec.com)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 20:51:33 CDT
From: If wishes were cows@iastate.edu,
Subject: Re: Boulevard Brewing Co
>While on a recent trip through the mid-west, I picked up some micro
>brews (I assume) made by the Boulevard Brewing Co. in Kansas City,MO.
Other stuff deleted
>If anybody has any input, I'd love to hear it.
I was in KC over the Easter Holiday, and enjoyed a fine meal at Bristol's on
the plaza. I had a IPA brewed by Boulevard and thought it was a fine brew.
While everyone else had coffee for desert I had another IPA.
Just my 2 cents worth
John Bartleson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 23:36:00 CST
From: hopduvel!john@linac.fnal.gov (John Isenhour)
Subject: How not to filter beer
Ok, so I've been asking around and reading up on how to filter
homebrew and I went by and looked at some whole house water filters.
It seemed that they contained an awful lot of liquid for filtering
five gallon batches and might be wasteful. So I notice these cute
little 'icemaker' filters by Pollenex that are clear tubes about
1.5" in diameter and about a foot long. These are filled with
carbon but they have a threaded cap and an O ring seal on one end.
I found one of these for $5.00 and also a 5.0 micron string filter
(two for $5.00) so I figure I'll just pour out the carbon and stuff
the wound string filter in the cartrige and see what happens.
BTW,
I've looked all over and I cannot find the 3.0 micron filters I
think George Fix was talking about, if anyone knows where I can find
one of those let me know. (the filter store says ??)
Anyway, I'm working on the little filter cartridge and found that the
plastic connecters that come with it - that thread into each end of
the cartridge, have outer threads that fit cornelius keg threads (ball
lock type at least - I dont have pin lock), I added a compression ring
(a little brass ring that looks like a double of the normal
cornelius plastic compression washers i.e. "<>" rather than ">" )
to get a good seal.
Then I try to unscrew the O ring cap off the cartridge. It is stuck
on really tight, so tight I thought I'd break it if I tried any
harder (I had the hex-head cap in a vise and was using 2 pipe
wrenches on the body of it). I thought I remembered testing one of
them and it unscrewed, so I ran to Kmart but they were all beyond
hand tight. So I went back home and heated the cap in real hot
water... finally put some ignited propane on it. After about a half
hour of heating and twisting and cursing, I got the cap off.
Ok, so now I pour out the carbon and take the poly wound filter
cartridge and open it up and find the end of the string. I roll the
string up in a tight little ball estimated to simulate what would
pass through the poly string filter if I hadnt grossly mutilated it.
I didnt want to filter it too much (gad! barley wine 'in' and
Coors extra light 'out' red alert).
(CO2 purging, fixing leaks etc mercifully omitted)
I diverted a sample:) on the way out of the fermenter into tank#1
which I used to compare against the filtered stuff going into tank
#2 (I was using CO2 to push the brew rather than a pump).
The glass I diverted after the filter looked exactly the same
(clarity wize etc) as the stuff right outta the fermenter:-(
I dissasemble the whole deal, stuff the little housing with as much
filter string as seems sane, and repete proceedure. same results.
So, I think that a small cartrige filter that would be disposable
or reusable with a small amount waste is still a good idea. I think
I could fabricate a smaller less wasteful housing if I could find
the right media. FWIW, the Filter Store told me today that pleated
filters were much more effecient and poly string filters were only
about 65% effecient at their rated effectiveness.
Now I've got a bunch of barley wine samples that I'm not about to
waste and its getting late!
-john
- --
John Isenhour
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA National Beer Judge
home: john@hopduvel.UUCP (hopduvel!john@linac.fnal.gov)
work: isenhour@lambic.fnal.gov
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 06:45:16 EDT
From: dstotler@cygnus.PPPL.GOV (Daren Stotler)
Subject: RE: rotten egg smell
Paul Biron writes:
>Last weekend I brewed up a batch of wheat beer using Alexander's 60/40
>wheat extract, a 1.5 lb 100% wheat kicker, and various grains and hops.
>I used Yeastlab Bavarian wheat liquid yeast. Prior to brewing I made up
(stuff deleted)
>hours. Once fermentation started, I began to notice a sour sulphur odor.
>Now that fermentation has stopped and I've racked to the secondary, the
>odor isn't as distinct but it's still there. Questions:
I guess this is going around. My last batch was very similar to this;
in particular, I also used the Yeast Bavarian Wheat Liquid Yeast (from
a starter). The fermentation went on for nearly a week. And, it gave off
a distinct "rotten egg" smell (my wife was the first to complain; I don't
need to give her any more reasons to object to my brewing in the house).
I called my local brew shop. The proprietor suggested leaving the beer on
the yeast for four days after the krausen had fallen; by that time the
smell should have dissipated. He was right! At this point I didn't see
any reason to go to a secondary, so I went ahead and bottled the beer.
My taste tests at that point indicated no ill effects; we'll have to
wait until this weekend to test the finished product. My only complaint
was that there were some fairly ugly remnants from the krausen floating on
top of the beer when I started bottling. Some of it made its way to
the last few bottles; I guess I can expect some puzzled looks
from unsuspecting guests.
---Daren Stotler
dstotler@pppl.gov
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 93 02:58:29 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter@seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Drinking in Albuquerque, Buffalo, & Toronto
The following attachments were included with this message:
__________________________________________________________________
TYPE : FILE
NAME : TOM
__________________________________________________________________
I will be travelling in the near future to Albuquerque NM and
Buffalo/Toronto and would appreciate any information on
brewpubs/good beer bars in the vicinity(s). Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 93 02:52:52 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter@seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Yeast Propagation
Message Creation Date was at 14-APR-1993 07:26:00
Greetings,
I've a question about starter cultures and their OG's.
I remember reading several items on hbd recently concerning
whether an OG of 1.020 was appropriate or just a piece of
folklore handed down over time. I've read that when a
fermentation reaches full yeast saturation, there are
supposedly 50 million yeast cells per milliliter of
solution. Is this irrespective of the Gravity of the wort?
Does a unit volume of 1.020 wort create the same number of
yeast cells as 1.080 wort? If the OG of the wort does make
a difference in the final quantity of yeast cells, is there
some sort of mathematical relationship I can use to
determine final number of yeast cells for a given volume of
wort at a set OG? It seems to me that if the OG has no
bearing in the final saturation number of yeast cells, and
saturation will always be 50 Mill/ml, then why not just
decrease the DME, increase the water, end up with an OG of
1.010, but because of a greater volume have a greater number
of yeast cells.
Help!! I see yeast in all my dreams!
Andy A
Bitch's Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 10:10:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: hops primer
Just a reminder that I've got a primer on growing your own hops. If
there's a lot of interest, I'll post it to the list. Otherwise it's
available by personal e-mail.
Russ Gelinas
gelinas@unhh.unh.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 07:54:36 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones@novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Milling nightmare
I recently brewed a Brown Ale. One of the malts in the recipe is English
crystal malt. This stuff really makes a brown ale. I usually put it in the
mashout to minimize some of it's harshness. I will mill the crystal malt
separately from the pale malt. Well all was going well with the pale malt. I
then started to crush the crystal malt. The mill started making funny
bumping noises. I looked at the cracked grain and it didn't look cracked,
more of a mashed look. Well I tasted the malt and it was like gum. Well I
figured I would pass the malt through the mill one more time to better
crack/mash it. The mill stopped! The malt gum/goo/sticky crab stuck to the
mill rollers and clogged the mill! It took me about two hours to clean the
rollers up. Not an easy task if you don't want to use water for fear of
rusting the rollers. I think what happened here is the malt was in a room
where the humidity was very high and it sucked up all the moisture to make
bubble gum malt. Under my house flooded during the winter and created this
high humidity. The lesson here is I will taste test all malt before they go
through the mill and I am considering some sort of moisture tight bag around
the malt to prevent this from happening again. Grooved rollers on a mill are
a definite disadvantage in this circumstance.
Bob Jones
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 08:33 PDT
From: Bob_Konigsberg@3mail.3com.com
Subject: Wort Chillers
It's been a while since I got on my soapbox (so as not to get too
tiresome on the subject), but having used both immersion chillers and
counterflow chillers (former first, latter second), I believe that
there is nothing like a counterflow chiller.
1) Because the wort and cooling water are going in opposite directions,
you get a very efficient heat exchange.
2) The bulk of the wort in the boiling pot stays hot enough to
discourage assorted bugs.
3) The wort is chilled in complete sterility and then dumped out at
pitching temperature right into your sterile (I hope) carboy.
I usually pitch the starter culture into the carboy and then dump
the wort on top of it.
4) You get (depending on the temperature of your cold water) a really
good cold break during the chilling process.
The big dread that most people consider is cleaning it. This is
actually not too bad. First I run hot water through it, then a solution
of chlorinated TSP and hot water and let that sit for 10 minutes. Then
another two minutes of hot water flow and cap both ends and leave it sit
with water in it. The chlorinated solution must NOT sit in it long
term, it will corrode the copper. Then I always rinse for two or three
minutes with hot water prior to use.
If anyone wants a drawing with detailed instructions, email me for my
home address and then send me a self addressed stamped envelope for the
drawing itself.
BobK
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 8:51:28 PDT
From: davep@cirrus.com (David Pike)
Subject: Cheap Hop Rhizomes
For those of you who are in the Pacific N.W. and want to grow your own
hops, the Herbfarm in Fall City has inexpensive rhizomes (3 for 3.99) for
sale.
Usual disclaimers.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 93 08:21:00 EST
From: "ROBERT W. HOSTETLER" <8220RWH@indy.navy.mil>
Subject: Chicago stakeout...
I had to unsubscribe from the digest for a couple of weeks; what's
the status of the stakeout on the homebrew/hydroponics supplier in the
Chicago 'burbs?
While I'm at it, what's happening with the Boston trademark lawsuit? Jim
Koch is doing commercials for Samuel Adams, and his voice just plain
sounds weaseley...
Bob Hostetler 8220rwh@indy.navy.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 12:52:18 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: re: Lab equip
>I would like to second that request for Lab equip supply places. Also
> does anyone have the number for Aldritch and know if they sell to
> individuals?
The toll free Customer service for Aldrich is 800-558-9160.
They sell non-chemicals to individuals but if you want
chemicals (agar included) you must order through a business.
I recently bought some Pyrex Petri dishes from them.
Theirs was the only catalog I found with Pyrex dishes, which they
sell in different sizes, namely,
o.d.XH(mm) Cat. No. Each Pkg/12 Case
58X15 Z13,973-4 $6.05 $47.80 $258.75/72
98X10 Z13,974-2 5.40 39.80 214.60/72
100X15 Z13,975-0 5.40 39.80 214.60/72
98X20 Z13,976-9 5.40 39.80 214.60/72
(100X15 seems to be the standard size).
They also added on a $10.00 shipping charge to the order.
As far as other supplies for yeast culturing go
test tubes - The minimum order in the catalogs I've seen
is 144 for over $100, so your best bet is
probably a local hobby shop.
agar - I took Jack Schmidling's advice and found it
both in stick and powdered form in a local Chinese
market. The powdered form seems most convenient
but the instructions were in Burmese (I think).
For some of the other items
J&H Berge, Inc. of 4111 So. Clinton Ave., So. Plainfield,NJ
(I don't have their phone number handy) have a more limited selection
of supplies than Aldrich, but at generally lower prices.
Bill Szymczak
bszymcz@ulysses.nswc.navy.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 10:41:22 PDT
From: 14-Apr-1993 1341 <macneal@pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Equations for wort chiller and immersion heater length
All of this talk about proper wort chiller length and length of immersion
heaters made me dig out my copy of Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook
(5th editon, pp. 10-36 and 10-37). Here are some formulas that may be of help.
First, let's define some terms. This will be a little tricky since I can't
sub and superscript easily. I'll use an * to signify multiplication.
A, area in sq. ft.; Ab, of tank bottom; Ac, of coil; Ae, equivalent; As, of
sides; At, of top; A1, equivalent area receiving heat from external coils; A2,
equivalent area not covered with external coils; Dt, diameter of tank, ft.; F,
design (safety) factor; h, film coefficient, B.t.u./(hr.)(sq.ft.)(0F); ha, of
ambient air; hc, of coil; hh, of heating medium; hi, of liquid phase of tank
contents, or tube-side coefficient referred to outside of coil; hz, of
insulation; k, thermal conductivity, B.t.u./(hr.)(sq.ft.)(0F/ft.); kg, of
ground below tank; M, weight of tank contents, when full, lb.; t, temperature,
0F; ta, of ambient air; td, of dead-air space; tf, of contents at end of
heating; tg, of ground below tank; th, of heating medium; to, of contents at
beginning of heating; U, over-all coefficient, B.t.u./(hr.)(sq.ft.)(0F); Ub, at
tank bottom; Uc, of coil; Ud, of dead air to the tank contents; Ui, through
insulation; Us, at sides; Ut, at top; U2, at area A2.
Case 1: Tank Maintained at Temperature with Internal Coil
For steady state: q=Us*Ae*(t-t')
for a tank on legs: Ae=(Ut/Us)*At + (Ub/Us)*Ab + As
for a flat-bottomed tank on the ground:
Ae= As + (Ut/Us)*At + [(2*Dt*kg/Us)*(t-tg)]/(t-t')
The coil area is: Ac= (q*F)/Uc*(th-t)m
The safety factor, F, is a matter of judgment based on confidence in the
design. A value of 1.10 is normally not considered excessive.
For a flat-bottomed tank indoors, not insulated, using water as a fluid,
Us=1.8, and As=0.35*At + As + 0.9*Dt. For an uninsulated tank on legs
indoors, Us=1.8, and As=0.35*At + Ab + As.
Case 2: Heating with an Internal Coil from Initial Temperature for Specified
Time (wort chiller length for desired chilling time)
Q= Wc*(tf-to)
Ac = {Q/theta_h + Us*Ae*[((tf+to)/2)-t']}*{1/Uc*[th-(tf+to)/2]}*F
where theta_h is length of heating period.
Over-all heat transfer coefficient for copper coil with cold water flowing
through it and immersed in hot water with no agitation is 105-180
B.t.u./(hr.)(sq.ft.)(0F).
Good luck!
Keith A. MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corporation
Hudson, MA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 12:16:34 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: dry-hopping, pitching rates
Brewing Comrades,
I have a couple remarks on postings in HBD#1118.
First, Carl Eidbo's remarks on dry-hopping problems remind me very much of
what I have been through with a recent batch. I have only gotten a few
comments on my trials and tribulations from digest contributors (I'm afraid
my postings had to compete with that very lively thread on swirling) but
enough to point me in this direction for future dry-hopping:
>>>when dry-hopping, I will (1) wait until the gravity is within a couple
points of finishing, and (2) use leaf hops rather than pellets, probably sunk
in a muslin bag weighted down with sanitized marbles.
Comments, anyone?
Second, regarding Dennis Lewis's post on pitching rates, I seem to recall a
year or two ago there was this fellow identifying himself as "Father
Barleywine" who claimed to be brewing multiple batches re-using the yeast
cake over and over, just dumping the new beer on top each time. I was
intrigued by this and tried it a couple of times, but the results were really
not very pleasant. Papazian says that the phenomenon known as "yeast bite"
can be associated with high pitching rates (and I also recall he says
something like "there is no scientific explanation for this") and I think
this was my problem - my yeasts were biting me!
However, thanks to the wisdom of the digest I no longer dump onto yeast cakes
and I also plan to give up washing my yeast for re-use in favor of the
"parallel propagation method" described herein recently, in which one lets a
starter solution ferment to completion, then splits it up into several
bottles fitted with airlocks and stores them in the fridge until brewing
time.
Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 93 09:43:26 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter@seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Search for good Beer
Message Creation Date was at 14-APR-1993 14:33:00
Greetings,
I've a friend who will soon be travelling to
Harrisburg, PA. He wants to know if there are any
brew-pubs, good beer pubs, or just enjoyable bars in the
area. Any response will be appreciated.
Thanks
Andy A
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 16:08 EDT
From: hjl@gummo.att.com
Subject: Beer Chillers
In HB#1119 Bob Sweeney asks about the use of beer chillers
comprising a coil of copper tubing, a bucket, and ice. He
expressed some concern about possible negative aspects of
this device. When I was very young (right after prohibition)
such coolers were built right into the bar in all
the neighborhood saloons. We had one in our summer house
which was used during fund-raising picnics attended by
large crowds (hundreds of people). They'd go through about
a dozen half-barrels of brew. The beer was delivered cold
but would get pretty warm towards the end of the day.
The chiller worked great. It had about fifty feet of half
inch copper tubing in an insulated box about two feet by
one foot by one foot deep. The ice was delivered in large
blocks about the same size as the cooler. It was chopped
into smaller (fist-sized) chunks using an icepick.
The only problem I ever observed during the forty years I
knew this gadget occurred late one hot afternoon when the
bartender (who had been busily replacing his electrolytes)
decided to save time in replenishing the ice by putting
in large chunks and chopping it up in the cooler.
After a short period of furious chopping, the level
of the ice began to rise. Then it became surrounded
foam and finally beer began pouring over the sides.
This shouldn't be a problem with today's technology
where the ice comes pre-chopped.
Hank
.//'
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:47:04 -0800 (PDT)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm@aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: dry hopping versus hop tea
In HBD 1118 Al talks about adding hop tea prior to bottling:
> to make a hop "tea" by boiling some hops in water for an hour (and while
> you're at it, you can add flavor hops 15 minutes before the end of the boil
> and finishing hops 5 minutes before the end of the boil)
How does this compare with dry hopping for the same effect? I would think
that 1/2 oz hops sitting for a week in a secondary would have more effect
than the same quantity boiled for 5 or 15 minutes in water. Also, how does
the volume of boiled water effect the extraction? It all has SG=1.0 which
implies it's independent of volume???
It would seem to be much easier to boil hops to make tea which is added at
the last minute than to mess around with dry hopping.
Peter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 12:17:26 PDT
From: WHATEVER IT TAKES <smith@zeke.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Zymurgy article copy request
Does anyone out there have the Zymurgy Spring 1989 issue (Vol.12-1)
If so; could you photocopy and fax me the articles on ?
Boiling Hops: how much is enough?
Carbonation Techniques: How to get the right amount of fizz in your beer.
Thank You in advance,
George Smith
Fax:(603) 881-0120
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 14:20:24 PDT
From: mikel@netlink.cts.com (Mike Lemons)
Subject: Guinness Stout (Imperial) Recipe
There has been some discussion lately about the difference between
different types of Guinness Stout. Here are some statistics from _The
Essentials of Beer Style_ by Fred Eckhardt:
Original Alcohol Final Hops
Gravity ww/vv Gravity ibu
Guinness Extra Stout
1052 4.4/5.5 1011 50
1901 Guinness Extra Stout (In Ireland)
1075 6.3/7.9 1014 90
The numbers for the Irish Guinness are quite similar to those for
Grant's Russian Imperial Stout. (So the truly Irish Guinness is really
Russian! -- go figure.)
The book also states: "Pale 2-row ale malt, plus 9% each of flaked
barley and very dark roast barley, in a two-step infusion mash (1-hour
at 148-151 F/64.5-66 C). Bullion bittering and Golding aromatic hops to
50 i.b.u." (This is for Export Guinness)
I would like to brew a beer in the style of Irish Guinness, but with
more body. I also like the molasses flavor of Mackeson Stout. So I
came up with this all-extract recipe:
Ingredients:
6 pounds, William's English Dark liquid malt extract
3 pounds, Australian Dark dry malt extract
1 pound, dry weizenmalt (60% wheat)
1 pound, crystal malt (40L)
1 pound, roasted barley (540L)
1 pound, chocolate malt (400L)
1/2 pound, black patent malt (500L)
1 cup, molasses
2.34 ounces, Bullion pellets (8.8% alpha), boil 60 minutes
.78 ounce, whole Kent Golding (7.8% alpha), boil 10 minutes
Wyeast Irish ale #1084
Leave out this ingredient, since it requires mashing:
1 pound, flaked barley
Any comments? Do you think the yeast will handle the high gravity or
will I need to re-pitch with champagne yeast? Should I throw something
else in to increase the body? (I would like it as thick as possible.
Maybe I should make my first attempt at mashing with flaked barley and
carapils.) Should I reduce the hops because the roasted barley will
add some bitterness? How many i.b.u. worth? Does anyone think that
lactic acid should be added?
- --
INTERNET: mikel@netlink.cts.com (Mike Lemons)
UUCP: ...!ryptyde!netlink!mikel
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 19:31:28 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Wyeast Bohemian Lager yeast
I have brewed repeatedly with the Wyeast 2124 (as have others I know)
and report nothing but excellent results. I would however contact
Wyeast with the batch number to determine if there are any known
quality problems with the lot you and your friend got.
Also how was it stored at the shop you got it from. There is
some possibility that it might have been mishandled leading
to damage to the yeast.
JaH
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1120, 04/15/93
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