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HOMEBREW Digest #1104
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/03/24 00:36:53
HOMEBREW Digest #1104 Wed 24 March 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Specialty malts (Jeff Frane)
Specialty malts (more) (Jeff Frane)
Tower System: Part 1 (ATKINSON)
Tower System: Part 2 (ATKINSON)
Drama, Excitement, Surveillance ! (srw)
Scandinavian brews?? (Richard_Ahrens)
Chill Haze (Jim Manda)
Chill Haze (Jim Manda)
HomeBrew Store Staked out by Feds ("Roger Deschner ")
Re: spelling (Marc de Jonge)
bunny beer (TKACKOWS)
re: Rye Malt (Kari Nikkanen, design engineer)
Hallertau or Hallertauer (Fritz Keinert)
Proper use of lager yeast (John Williams)
Catalog address, phone number (Richard Akerboom)
Re:Clinton E-Mail (CDR Fred W. Brunson)
7 grain beer ("Daniel F McConnell")
Re : oat bran in brewing (Conn Copas)
German-style Helles Lager (Catherine P Stokley)
Wine, Starters (Jack Schmidling)
More Manifold Designs (Richard Goldstein)
Comments on Bud (Was: "two questions") (David Arnold)
Haller-what? (Richard Stueven)
Mashing Crystal, Dextrine Malts. Attenuation of Whitbread yeast (cole)
re: Hallertau, Hallertauer (Darryl Richman)
Carboy cleaning ("U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 13:59:47 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Specialty malts
Specialty Malts -- some info (part I)
In the interests of expanding knowledge about malts -- particularly
carapils (dextrine) malt, I'm posting some information drawn from a
couple of commercial sources. The first is from an article by Roger
C. Briess, of the Briess Malting Co., which originally appeared in
Brewers Digest, October 1986. The focus of the article was the brewing
industry's ability to response to the market threat from imported beers
by their duplication through "all-American" ingredients.
The second is from material handed out
a few years ago at a presentation to microbrewers at Great Western
Malting, in Vancouver, Washington. Shortly before, GW had been taken
over by Canada Malting Co., which also owns Hugh Baird, one of Britain's
largest malt houses. That information is based on British malts and
terminology.
=========================================
Specialty Malts & Applications in Brewing, Roger Briess
"Basically two groups of malt exist from the maltsters' point of view:
kiln dried and roaster dried.
"Kilned malts, such as Pale Brewers or Munich types provide only
certain characteristics. The endosperm is generally _mealy_, providing
only _limited_ color and _limited_ flavor; however, few unfermentable
components. These malts are relatively inexpensive and easy to produce
on conventional equipment.
"Roasted malts, with the exception of Black Malt, have almost completely
glassy endosperms, providing non-fermentable components which enhance/
impart flavor, body, foam retention and beer stability.
[deleted text, mostly justifying high costs of specialty malts]
"Specific Characters
"Munich type malt increases color to a limited degree in beer with a
yellow-golden hue. It does _not_ enhance body, foam retention and beer
stability.
"It has reduced enzymatic activity and slightly less extract than standard
Brewers Malt.
"Carapils(R) (dextrine) malt has an almost completely "glassy" endosperm,
no enzymatic activity and somewhat less extract than standard brewers malt.
It greatly improves body, foam retention and beer stability without
increasing color or changing beer flavor profile, through non-fermentable
components. It is an elegant and inexpensive "natural" alternative to
alginates.
"Caramel malt also has an almost completely glassy endosperm, similar to
Carapils. It yields various color intensities in the desirable golden-red
hues. Standardized products in the 20 degree, 40d, 60d, 80d and 120d
Lovibond colors are readily available. Other variations are custom-made
upon request, volume permitting.
"The flavor profile varies with degree of roasting intensity, from a mild
caramel to a sharp, pronounced caramel. Fermentation will greatly influence
the remaining sweetness in the final beer.
[text deleted]
"One series of tests which were confirmed by brewing university researchers
indicates that a substitution of 15% Standard Brewers Malt on an "as-is-
basis" with Carapils permits an O.G. reduction from 11.5 d Plato to 10.5
d Plato without detection by a seasoned taste panel. Cost savings and
increased drinkability are some of the obvious advantages.
"Specialty malts are easy to use and generally do not require changes in
commercial brewing procedures, equipment readjustment, etc."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 14:00:27 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Specialty malts (more)
from Hugh Baird
"Special brewing malts are used to impart, strengthen or balance specific
properties of the wort or beer such as color, flavor, body, foam
formation, protein stability, aroma and anti-oxident power. Most
reference books have little to say about colored malts. Many feel the
use of colored malts dates back to the 1600s when a serious fire in a
malt house produced a substantial volume of charred grain. It was decided
that it could be used u in the cheaper beer which was favored by
London porters and which was dark in color. By 1842, when the Roasted
Maltsters Act was introduced to limit the hours of roasting and control
temperatures, a wide variety of colored malts were already in use.
"Today's colored malts are now produced in roasting cylinders. They
provide direct heating in which hot, dry air passes through the cylinder
and indirect heating, where the grain is heated at a constant moisture
level providing a "stewing" effect.
"Colored malts consist of two types:
"Those made from green malt, generally referred to as caramel or crystal.
"Those made from dry material, often called roasted or chocolate.
...
"Carastan: This material is manufactured from germinating grain. The green
malt is transferred to a roasting cylinder and heated to 65^C for about
one hour. At this temperature and moisture, "stewing" occurs. The interior
of the grain is, in effect, "mashed." The starch is hydrolysed and
the endosperm liquifies. The temperature is then raised to 150^C for
varying periods of time, causing the breakdown products to react according
to the maillard reactions. When the malt cools, the liquid interior
sets to a pale-brown and caramel-like mass. The result is a malt with a pale
brown color and caramel-like taste. Colros are 30-37 ASBC. In addition to
their effect on beer flavor and color, they increase mouth feel and head
formation.
"Light Carastan: Produced in the same manner as carastan malt only due to
the lower color requirements, the roasting is prolonged at a lower
temperature. Color: 13-17 ASBC. Provides color without introducing as
much caramel flavor.
"Caramel (crystal): Again, the manufacturing method is basically the same
as carastan, using the same starting material, only using a longer and
higher roasting temperature. The flavors are more intense than carastan,
but basically have the same characteristics. The higher colored caramels
have a slightly "burnt" note. Colors can range from 50-212 ASBC.
"Amber (brown): Normally kilned pale malt is roasted in a cylinder at
tempeartures of 138-149^C, resulting in a malt that provides a somewhat
bitter flavor. Colors are 55-70 ASBC.
"Chocolate and Roasted Malt: This material is manufactured from kilned
malt by roasting at temperatures up to 250^C. Care must be taken not to
char the grain. Chocolate malt has a color of 450-500 ASBC and roasted
malt 500-550 ASBC.
"Roasted Material: Unsteeped barley is roasted at temperatures up to
250^C. It provides color like roasted malt only has a sharper, more
acid flavor.
"Munich Malt: Malt is allowed to "stew" at 50^C, then kilned at
temperatures less than 100^C. The high concentration of nitrogenous
material and reducing sugars produce high color without introducing
the carfamel/crystal flavor. Colros range 5-8 ASBC.
"Vienna Malt: A traditional pale malt produced at higher kilning
temperatures. It is characterized by high color and reduced enzyme
activity. Typically colors are 4-5 ASBC."
((I deduce from the numbers given above that ASBC colors are essentially
the same as those given in Lovibond.))
- --Jeff Frane
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 1993 17:24:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: ATKINSON@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Tower System: Part 1
Fellow Brewers,
This is a long post, so here is...
Part 1
I am about to build the Tower System that Bill Owens describes in his book
"How to Build a Small Brewery". It is a system which he suggests that is
to be used for brews up to 10 gallons. After reading the recent thread on
RIMS in the HBD, I realized that there are probably several of you out
there that may be familiar with this Tower System. Although not a RIMS,
this system seems to be similar to a RIMS in that it simplifies some of
the brewing steps. This system uses a high temperature pump to lift water
to the highest point necessary, and then lets gravity do the rest of the
liquid moving work. I like the idea of this system, and am hoping that
some of you can tell me about the pros and cons of using one of these, or
perhaps give suggestions for improvement. For those of you who aren't
familiar with the Tower, I've tried to sketch it below, and would like
your insights also. I believe that one of the great beauties of the
system is that it only requires one heat source, and only one kettle. I
now have everything but the pump, and I guess I could simply transfer hot
water from the kettle to the ice chests in a bucket, but temperature drops
would have to be carefully observed.
========
|| _____||________
|| | | MASH/LAUTER TUN
|| | | (ICE CHEST & 2 COPPER MANIFOLDS)
|| | |
|| | | _______________
|| | | | |
|| |___________|=X========|========= |
|| | | X - valve
|| HOT WATER | |
|| TANK | |
|| (ICE CHEST) | ==========|=X====
|| |___________|
|| | |
|| | |
|| | KETTLE |
|| | |
|| | |
|| ---- | |
|| HIGH TEMP. HOSE | | | |
=======================| |==============________|
----
HIGH ^^^^
TEMPERATURE \__/ PROPANE
PUMP / \ BURNER
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 1993 17:24:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: ATKINSON@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Tower System: Part 2
Part 2
Some clarification of the previous diagram:
1. The HOT WATER TANK and the MASH/LAUTER TUN are 58 quart ice chests
(58 quart Igloo's can be purchased at SAM'S Wholesale Club for under
$20 each).
2. The cooking KETTLE is a converted 16 gallon stainless steel keg (top
cut out and pipe fitting welded in place near bottom).
3. The HIGH TEMPERATURE PUMP is a hot water circulator pump (can be
ordered out of Grainger's catalog for about $75).
4. The PROPANE BURNER is about 170,000 BTU (mine is a King Kooker,
purchased at SAM'S for $50).
The system works by placing grains in the MASH/LAUTER TUN while heating
water to mash temperatures in the KETTLE. Once the appropriate
temperature has been reached, it is pumped into the MASH/LAUTER TUN. This
is done for as many temperatures as required for your recipe.
After all mashing water has been used, sparge water is heated in the
KETTLE and then pumped to the HOT WATER TANK.
When ready to sparge, the valves are adjusted so that effluent rate out of
MASH/LAUTER TUN is equal to the influent rate from the HOT WATER TANK.
The upper and lower manifolds are similar: the upper one is used to
distribute hot sparge water evenly over the filter bed; the lower one is
used to filter the grain from the wort. This system should allow one to
adjust sparging time to as fast or slow as one desires. (I think that I'd
try to set my sparge to about 2 hours so that I could leave the system
alone while I watched another upset in this years NCAA March Madness!)
You sparge directly into the KETTLE, and you can bring the wort to a boil
when you have collected 1 to 2 gallons.
QUESTIONS, COMMENTS AND INSIGHTS (FLAMES?) WILL BE MUCH APPRECIATED!
P.S. I have no connection to Owens or his publisher.
Sam Atkinson
Brew Long and Prosper
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 11:43 CST
From: srw@ihlpv.att.com
Subject: Drama, Excitement, Surveillance !
This isn't directly related to brewing per se, but I thought the
readers of this digest might be interested in a little drama that
is unfolding at the Chicago Indoor Garden Supply store, 297 N.
Barrington Rd, Streamwood, IL 60107.
I stopped in this past Saturday (3-20-93) to pick up some liquid yeast
and the owner asked an unusual question, "Would you like to see a
surveillance camera?" At first I thought it was a trick question, but
he lead me to the door, shoved a pair of binoculars in my hand, and
directed my attention to a utility pole directly across the street.
Strange. Power transformers don't usually have little windows on the
front and high gain antennas on the top.
The owner went on to allege that the Drug Enforcement Agency placed a
camera there to see who visits the store. He claimed that they would
send chase cars after the patrons to get the license tag and then in
some cases show up at their door step demanding to search their home.
The store not only sells the necessary supplies for making beer, but
they also sell supplies for growing spices and herbs in your home.
It appears that the DEA assumes all customers of the store are
growing marijuana. The disturbing part, the owner alleges, is that
the DEA does not have a search warrant when they show up that your
door.
It's been a couple of days now and no one has shown up at my door,
but I can say for a fact that there was a suspicious looking
transformer on the utility pole Saturday afternoon. I wonder if
they are monitoring Handy Andy, Franks Nursery, K-mart, etc.
I'm sure if you call the store at 708-885-8282 they will be glad to
tell you the latest chapter in this unfolding drama.
The local CBS affiliate, WBBM Channel 2, is going to do a news story
tonight (Monday). This could be interesting.
Steve Walk -- 708-713-7409 (Voice) 708-713-7963 (FAX)
Room IHP 2F-520
Software Systems and Technologies Department
AT&T Bell Laboratories
263 Shuman Boulevard
Naperville, IL 60566-7050
att!ihlpv!srw or srw@ihlpv.att.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 21:12 EST
From: Richard_Ahrens@vos.stratus.com
Subject: Scandinavian brews??
Someone recently posted an inquiry about the brewscene in Finland. I'd like
to expand on that a bit. I'll be bumming around most of Scandinavia in May
and would like to hear from anyone with suggestions on beers, pubs,
festivals, etc., which shouldn't be missed. (In fact, since I've borrowed
bandwidth to ask that much, any thoughts on low-budget travel in the region
would be appreciated.) Reply by email, natch.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 93 22:19:45 EST
From: Jim Manda <70322.2634@compuserve.com>
Subject: Chill Haze
To: >INTERNET:homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Date: March 22, 1993
From: 70322.2634@COMPUSERVE.COM (Jim Manda)
Subject: Chill Haze
I'm new to homebrewing and have my sixth batch sitting in the primary as I
write. Although I've been very happy with my beer, I've been consistently
getting chill haze. I brew from extracts (EEK!) and the only adjunct I've
used so far is crystal malt. A typical recipe for 3.5 gallons is:
3.3 lbs. John Bull Pale liquid malt extract
1 lb. 6 oz. Munton & Fison light DME
6 oz. English crystal malt 40lv
2 oz. Willamette hop pellets (boiling)
1/2 oz. Cascade hops (finishing)
1/2 tsp. Irish Moss
1 pack Wyeast liquid yeast #1084, Irish ale
My method is pretty straightforward. Crush the crystal malt in a ziploc
with my John Bull rolling pin, put it in a grain bag, and place in 1.5
gallons of cold water. Bring to 170 degrees and steep for five minutes.
Remove the grains. Add the extracts, bring to boil. Add the boiling hops
and let it boil for an hour. I've been adding the Irish Moss during the
last 15 minutes of the boil. I force chill the wort by placing it in a
couple of sanitized 1 gallon containers and bathing it in very cold water.
It gets to pitching temperature within 20-25 minutes.
My thinking is that the crystal malt is somehow responsible for the chill
haze. I do a primary and secondary fermentation and the warm beer is very
clear. I know the chill haze is not supposed to affect the beer's flavor
but I would like to get rid of it.
I've looked around for papain, but the health food stores I've checked
don't carry a pure version of it. I've checked with several home brew
supply houses for polyclar and their question is usually __What's it used
for?__
Thanks in advance for any and all advice. I'm a regular HBD reader and
find it instructive and very readable.
-Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 22:46:20 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: HomeBrew Store Staked out by Feds
This story was on WBBM-TV, Channel 2, Chicago's CBS station, on this
evening's 10 O'Clock News.
Starting a week ago, the Drug Enforcement Administration has been
watching Chicago Indoor Garden Supply of Streamwood, IL, from a camera
somewhat ineptly camouflaged as an electric transformer on a utility pole
across the street. This store does 70% of its business in homebrewing
suppies, and has become one of the favorite suppliers to Chicago area
homebrewers. Two homebrewers were interviewed by Channel 2 who had been
followed home from the store by the Federalies, and had their homes
ransacked for drugs. When Ch.2's news truck parked in front of a nearby
storefront the DEA has been using as a staging location, an "interesting"
scene unfolded with a Ch.2 reporter not getting very many answers from
the Feds, who tried in vain to keep their cover. (Note: Ch.2 did
obscure their faces as per standard practice when showing undercover
agents.) Then a swarm of Streamwood Police Dept. cars came, sirens and
lights going, to try to chase away the Ch.2 news crew.
The whole slant of the story was that this was a case of the DEA going
too far in "Operation Green Merchant", where they are going after stores
in Suburban Chicago which they suspect are supplying marijuana growers
with lights, fertilizer, etc. The presumption is that if they follow
enough homebrewers and other purchasers of perfectly legal merchandize
home from this store, eventually they'll find drugs in somebody's house,
and then they can sieze and close the store. Since they have an officer
assigned full-time to follow customers of this store home, they figure
the odds are in their favor.
Channel 2 Chicago is to be complimented for broadcasting this story, and
for emphasizing several times during it that homebrewing is legal. Watch
for further developments - WBBM-TV generally does a good job of following
up on stories of this sort.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 11:46:23 +0100
From: dejonge@geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: Re: spelling
In HBD1103 Jack Schmidling asks
>>Subject: Yeast Lab, Hallertau in porters
> ^^^^^^^^^
>>Thanks to all who replied on the subject of Hallertauer in porters.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>Would someone please provide the correct spelling for this word?
>
>Just when I thought I knew, I bumped into the "er" at the end in my newly
>acquired, SIGNED COPY of FIX and here we have both spelling in the same
>article.
The place where the hops originally came from is called Hallertau.
I think in german the form 'Hallertau-er' signifies a possesion
or origin, so 'Hallertauer' would mean 'from (or of) Hallertau'
(This is only from memory, my last german classes are more than
12 years ago)
Marc de Jonge (dejonge@geof.ruu.nl)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 07:27:14 EST
From: TKACKOWS@ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: bunny beer
While reading the only section of the newspaper worth paying for (the
comics section), I came accross Frank and Ernest by Bob Thaves. In the panel
F&E are standing at a bar with a sign that reads "ask about our 'bunny beer'"
The beer tender replies "it's made with more hops". This caused me to smile
and chuckle. Then I realized, I've never brewed any beer (I just like to
read the HBD, you guys can really bitch and moan) and was wondering:
What would more hops do to a brew? Would the drink be palettable?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
tj
BTW, GO HOOSIERS !!! ALL THE WAY IN THE NCAA!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 15:59:45 +0300 (EET)
From: NIKKANEN@ntcclu.ntc.nokia.com (Kari Nikkanen, design engineer)
Subject: re: Rye Malt
Julie says:
>I'm wanting to try my hand at making the Finnish beer Sahti. I've
>found the malted rye (a tricky thing) but have a question. You see,
>I'm still an extract brewer and am not ready to go all grain right
>now. So I was wondering how I handle the rye malt. Should I
>treat it like a speciality grain by steeping it in near boiling
>water and then adding it to the regular malt? Or will I need to
>do a partial mash? How would I go about this?
I think you'll get closer to the real thing with a
partial mash. As I don't have any kind of reference
around right now, I'd only say that one hour in 165 F
should be enough. But then again, sahti can be brewed
with or without rye malt, so depending on how much rye
taste you want, (partial)mash, steep or leave it out. Well,
that wasn't really much of a help, was it? I guess I'll
have to find some reference, an old recipe or something...
Anyway (as you perhaps know) there are no strict rules about how
sahti has to be made, so go on and just do it!
Kippis! /Kari
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 08:41:27 CST
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert@iastate.edu>
Subject: Hallertau or Hallertauer
In HB Digest 1103, arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) asks
>> Subject: Yeast Lab, Hallertau in porters
>> Thanks to all who replied on the subject of Hallertauer in porters.
^^^^^^^^^^^
> Would someone please provide the correct spelling for this word?
> Just when I thought I knew, I bumped into the "er" at the end in my newly
> acquired, SIGNED COPY of FIX and here we have both spelling in the same
> article.
I think both forms are correct. Hallertau is the name of the region
where the hops come from. One of the meanings of the "er" ending in
German is "coming from", just like in English: New York is a town, a
New Yorker is a person from New York.
In German, the "er" needs to be there in the phrase "Hallertauer
Hopfen". In English, it is more customary to leave them off:
"Hallertau hops". Take your pick.
- ---
Fritz Keinert phone: (515) 294-5223
Department of Mathematics fax: (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University e-mail: keinert@iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:19:58 EST
From: jwilliam@uhasun.hartford.edu (John Williams)
Subject: Proper use of lager yeast
Hi
I have a question about the proper use of lager yeast. I made
three batches from one pack of wyeast #1007 by repitching the dregs;
first from the primary and then from the secondary. The first batch was
a bock and after sitting in the bottle in the basement (<50 deg) for
about 6 weeks was well carbonated and good. The second was double
dunkel and after 6 weeks had no head or carbonation. I took a couple of
bottles upstairs where the temperature is about 68 deg, shook them when
I walked by them and they were carbonated in about three days. Two
weeks later, now, the ones in the basement are also carbonated. The
last batch has been in the bottle for 5 weeks and shows no sign of
carbonation.
Here is the question in all this. What is the proper way to
treat the bottles? Should I leave them at room temp for a week to
condition the beer in the bottle and then move them down to the basement
to clear or should I just move them down to the basement and wait six
weeks? What I don't understand is that the beer did the primary ferment
down in the basement just fine, it finished in under a week, so why
doesn't the yeast carbonate the beer in the bottle in the same time?
Are the conditions in the bottle that different then in the carboy?
Thanks for your help.
John Williams
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 09:24:02 EST
From: boomer@sylsoft.com (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Catalog address, phone number
About a year ago in the HBD someone mentioned a restaurant supply catalog
that was a good source of homebrewing equipment like pots, tap systems,
etc. I think they were located in the midwest, perhaps near Chicago
or in Wisconsin. I moved recently and seem to have lost the catalog,
and naturally now I need some equipment from them. Any suggestions
on the name and telephone number would be appreciated.
Rich
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom Domain: boomer@sylsoft.com or akerboom@dartmouth.edu
Sylvan Software uucp: dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St. Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566 FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 08:58:29 -0700
From: 4311@cpf.navy.mil (CDR Fred W. Brunson)
Subject: Re:Clinton E-Mail
In HBD 1103 Bill Ridgely provided e-mail addresses for the
Commander-in-Chief (Bill Clinton).
I'm sure that Bill (Ridgely) was using hyperbole when he asserted
that the President reads every one of the 700 e-mail messages
that the White House gets daily. A recent Wall Street Journal
side bar on the subject (my boss gets it and I get hand-me-downs)
indicated that the message traffic doesn't go directly to the
White House but is delivered on disk (the aol.com address is a
contractor's office in Vienna, Va), printed out and then handled
by staffers as normal written correspondence. Replys are only
sent via snail mail so you have to include your postal mailing
address in the e-mail if you expect an answer.
Still it's better than their predecessors as far as access goes
and, Bill, thanks for putting the word out, I should have thought
of it myself.
Fred
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 1993 10:42:04 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell@med.umich.edu>
Subject: 7 grain beer
Subject: Time:10:37 AM
OFFICE MEMO 7 grain beer Date:3/23/93
Jacob Galley <gal2@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
>Further down on the feasibility scale, I am tantalized by the idea of
>a SEVEN GRAIN BEER. Surely this is not a unique idea. Does anyone >know
>of any previous attempts at this? I'm thinking this would include
>barley (50-60%), wheat, rye, oats, rice (?), corn (?), millet (??). I
>envision this as an amber, steamy lager.
Three years ago I brewed a Kashi Ale. It all started when I saw some buckwheat
kashi in the bulk grain section of the local alternative grocery. My wife sees
cereal-I see beer. Next thing I knew, I was brewing. The kashi contained 5
grains including a majority of buckwheat and some millet. I mashed with 60%
2-row, 37.5% kashi and 12.5% rice to give the 7 grains. I cooked the kashi in
water before mashing because I didn't know if that was needed or not...so to be
safe I cooked it. It turned to mush. Interestingly the mush (and rice) simply
seemed to *vanish* during the mash. I kept the hop rate low to allow full
flavor evaluation.
The beer was very light in body with an unusual but interesting, almost smokey
flavor component most certainly due to the buckwheat. Definitely falls in the
wierd-beer category, but it is worth making again. I would add rye, eliminate
rice and add some crystal to provide more body and color. I seem to recall
that high levels of millet is undesirable due to the oil in the grain
(Papazian?).
I can post the recipe if anyone is interested. The basics for 5 gal were 4 lb
malt, 3 lb Kashi and 1 lb rice.
DanMcC
PS. My memory really isn't that good....I was considering making this again, so
I looked it up just two days ago.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 16:00:40 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : oat bran in brewing
Jean Hunter writes:
"Has anyone tried using oat bran in an oatmeal stout? As a brewer in the
extract/partial mash school, I question the logic of using large quantities
of flaked oats as a specialty grain, especially when the starch will
obviously not be converted. I would expect the gums and glucans to be
concentrated in the bran of the oat -- so why not use just the bran fraction
and save the rolled oats for breakfast?"
I cook with oat bran, and it doesn't seem to create much viscosity to me.
However, I have made extract stouts which involved a preboiled rolled oats
solution, and this definitely has mouthfeel, although zero SG. The best method
seems to be to flour the flakes, then add water rather than vice versa in
order to stop clumping. The solution throws an incredible amount of sediment,
so if you decide to boil the oats along with the malt and hops, forget about
racking off the trub, otherwise you will lose too much extract. There's no oil
in rolled cereals, so it shouldn't affect yeast metabolism. You can get
30 pts/lb/gall by mashing the oats with either some amylase enzyme or some
diastatic malt, and that will reduce the amount of starch sediment.
- --
Conn V Copas
Loughborough University of Technology tel : +44 509 263171 ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : +44 509 610815
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas@lut.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 11:11:38 -0500
From: cstokley@mason1.gmu.edu (Catherine P Stokley)
Subject: German-style Helles Lager
Help requested from successful homebrewers of German or Austrian Helles
Lager Bier. After having tried upwards of 40 different recipes and
techniques to produce a German style beer rather than an English style
beer, I am about to throw in the hop bag and bag it. Can anyone offer some
insight into the problem? Over the years I have purchased brewing
materials primarily from Alternate Beverage in Charlotte, NC. The
products offered for sale are to a large extent from the U.K. I do not know
if the beers that I have brewed remind me of English beers I had while
living in England, because the English Malt extracts are basically
produced at higher temperatures and are consequently more bitter than
German malts might be or if the yeasts and hops I have used are similarly
from the wrong source. Without going into the all the variations of recipes
I have tried and without describing tastes and aromas long forgotten (still
recorded in my log, however), I would appreciate some suggestions for
recipes, techniques and sources of ingredients which could be used to
produce German or Austrian style Helles Bier.
Thank you
Catherine Stokley
internet:: cstokley@mason1.gmu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:18 CST
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Wine, Starters
>From: troy@scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard)
> Let's say I use ale yeast next time, how do I get a *slightly* (and I do
mean very slightly) sweet AND carbonated cider. Seems like if there is any
residual sugar in there, the yeast will eat it.
The standard trick is to use Campden tablets to stabilize the wine after the
desired sweetness is achieved.
I prefer to keep adding sugar till the yeast croaks and then just enough to
get the sweetness I want. The key is to do it in small increments when you
get close or you will over shoot. The type of yeast you use will determine
the alcohol level when finished this way.
In the last stages, I use honey because it ferments more slowly and seems
more natural.
>From: G.A.Cooper@qmw.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper)
>Subject: OG for starters - a question
>Over the time that I have been reading HBD, there have been many articles
which have talked about the best gravity of wort to use in a starter. The
received wisdom from most postings is that an OG of 1.020 it best, but
recent postings have expressed different views.
>I recently mentioned the figure of 1.020 to a (knowledgeable) colleague and
then realised that I had no hard evidence to support any claims - just HBD
hearsay (which I have no doubt is well founded :-) )
A MOMILY BUSTER in the bud. I suspect you will find that there are probably
sound scientific reasons behind the number but in the real world of home
brewing, it really is academic. There are also sound scientific reasons for
re-hydrating dry yeast in plain water but the same real world reminder
applies.
I find the most practical starter is simply a small amount of the previous
batch held back before pitching. I put a pint in the fridge for the next
batch and if I feel real scientific, I cut the first pitch with water but I
usually just use it as is and as near as I can tell, the yeast loves it.
>So what is the best OG for a starter?
The OG of your last beer :)
> Is the value different for culturing up from a small amount (say from a
slant), from that for growing an existing large colony (say from a packet of
dried yeast)? Or, assuming that one might culture from 10ml to 100ml and then
to 1lt, should one use the same OG medium for the 2 stages, or might it be
better if they were different?
I do/have done all of the above and the same reminder applies.
I suspect the best advice would be to lean towards minimum "shock". If the
slant is made on 1.020 agar, it could be argued that the starter should be
1.020, but I won't.
For those following the trials and tribulations of the World's Greatest
Brewer, I have just started a Wyeast batch. It was given (forced) to (on) me
by Tim Norris. So, I am re-culturing it on petri dishes and used the rest to
start a starter.
So far, what I dislike the most about it is that it doesn't seem to
understand about telephones. After sterilizing the packet, scissors, needle,
pipette, flask mouth and removing the air lock, I cut open the packet and the
BLODDY PHONE RANG!
It was a prospective customer wanting to know all about easy mashers and so
with the phone on my shoulder and my mind on mashing, I continued to carry on
with the yeast. Naturally, it wouldn't pour nice and I slobbered more on the
table than in the flask but I got enough to learn what I wanted to learn and
converted another plastic bucket brewer to the wave of the future.
Not surprisingly, there is a lot of dead yeast in the packet. Within a few
minutes of pouring it in, a significant layer had settled to the bottom of
the flask. This is about the amount I would normally have after three days
of incubating from a slant. It is now almost 24 hours later and there is
only a modest amount of fermentation and thus I assume that it is mostly dead
yeast.
js
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 08:38:16 PST
From: Richard.Goldstein@EBay.Sun.COM (Richard Goldstein)
Subject: More Manifold Designs
All this talk about manifold designs has got me thinking about a
variation, and I would like some feedback. I'm not very mechanically
inclined and I don't have a pipe cutter. However, I do have about 10'
of copper tubing left over from when I made a wort chiller.
Can I just make a flat coil and put it on the bottom of a cooler, and
cut slots (facing down) into it? It would be made with a standpipe.
I understand that most of the other designs allow the cleaning/rinsing
of the pieces, or have screens to protect them, but this manifold
design doesn't come apart. How important is that? How much gunk gets
into the slots of the pipes? Do you think that merely flushing the pipe
with water would be sufficient? What other factors or design flaws am
I missing?
Thanks.
Richard Goldstein
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 12:00:35 -0500
From: David Arnold <davida@syrinx.umd.edu>
Subject: Comments on Bud (Was: "two questions")
In HBD #1103, Kirk_Anderson@wheatonma.edu wrote:
>Did anyone catch the new Budweiser ad? A couple of yuppies sitting round a
>bar learn that because AB has a brewery in St Louis, and another in
>Milwaukee, and another in New Jersey, etc., well, their favorite beer is
>always *fresher*. Right, so like how does pasteurization fit in here?
>(Jeez who dreams up this sheepdip anyway?)
What gets me is the previous Bud commercial where the yuppies are in
the bar with the old guys, and the oldsters are debating what makes
Bud "so great". One says "the hops", another says "the rice".
THE RICE? Geez, that's part of what makes it taste like real beer filtered
through my kidneys! Seems to me that's a good reason to drink something
else rather than Bud!?!?!
Of course, this is not a slight on (real) rice-based beer, but they're
telling us that they're making a standard pilser or lager with rice. Does
anybody else find this laughable? I figured they'd play down the rice
content as much as possible, especially with the upswing in popularity of
"real beers" (microbrews, etc).
Then again, why pull a lobe carping about it? The last time I tried Bud
was two years ago and I was offended by it...
David Arnold
P.S. Then there's Killians Irish Red being the "official beer of St. Patricks
Day"; I wonder what Guiness and Harp thought of this? :-)
Inet: davida@syrinx.umd.edu
Bitnet: davida%syrinx.umd.edu@cunyvm
UUCP: uunet!syrinx.umd.edu!davida
NeXTmail: davida@anagram.umd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 09:07:48 -0800
From: Richard Stueven <gak@wrs.com>
Subject: Haller-what?
"Hallertau" is a place.
"Hallertauer" is the name of a thing from that place.
To wit: "Diese Hopfen kommt von Hallertau. Diese Hopfen sind Hallertauer."
Hope this helps...
have fun
gak
Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 07:29:08 PST
From: cole%nevis.hepnet@Lbl.Gov
Subject: Mashing Crystal, Dextrine Malts. Attenuation of Whitbread yeast
I have been somewhat confused by one of the ongoing threads regarding the
mashing of crystal and dextrine malts. I have just recently started doing
all-grain batches after three relatively successful partial mashes. In all
of my partial and full mashes I have added the crystal malt at the very
beginning of the mash. However, I have seen several comments on the HBD
over the last few months stating that crystal malts should not be mashed as
the mashing has already been done during the kilning stage. What confuses
me is that I have not seen this stated (to not mash crystal malt) in either
TNCJOHB or in Miller's book (though I haven't finished a thorough
cover-to-cover reading of it). I also see no explicit mention of treating
crystal malts separately in most all-grain recipes posted to the HBD or in
the Cat's Meow from the more experienced contributor's to this forum.
Please don't take this as an insult, but I am a little wary of some of the
"convential wisdom" that shows up on the HBD. So, the question is:
Is it bad to mash crystal malts ? More specifically, do the enzymes
reduce the desired sugars during the mash or are the sugars derived
from crystal untouchable to the starch-converting enzymes ?"
Also regarding the recent thread on cara-pils (dextrine) malt, I forgot
to check, but I believe that Papazian EXPLICITLY states that cara-pils
MUST be mashed. I have learned to be wary of some of his statements, so
once again:
Do the experts believe that cara-pils malt should be mashed ?
One reason I ask these questions is that in my first all-grain batch, I
attempted to produce a lower-gravity, lighter colored bitter (target OG 1.035).
I was tired of the amber color I found in beers made from extract and the
typical extract sweetness that I found inappropriate for some beers.
The grain bill was:
===================
5 1/2# pale malt
1/2 # light crystal (10L I think, it was a very light crystal)
1/2 # dextrine malt
I mashed in at 115 F, raised temp to 122 F for 30 min protein rest,
conversion rest at 152 F for 1 hour, mashout at 170 for 10 min., sparged
with 3.5 gallons. I obtained 180 pts*gal of extract, but also sparged too
long :( . I used a batch of second-generation Wyeast Whitbread Ale for the
ferment.
To make the story short, the Whitbread yeast fermented the beer down to
1.005, giving me an exceptionally dry, somewhat over-hopped, and astringent
(from over-sparging I assume) beer. Drinkable, but far from what I wanted.
I've read about the tendency of Whitbread to become more attenuative over
time, but I didn't expect this result in the second generation. I
definitely expected the crystal and dextrine malts to provide more residual
sweetness. Though I am skeptical, I cannot rule out breakdown of the
sugars during the mash as one reason for the resulting dryness. Thus, the
questions above.
Regarding the tendency of Whitbread to become more attentuative with
successive generations, is this a result of preferentially selecting the more
attenuative of the three strains ? If so, then the difference in behavior
between yeast taken from the primary or secondary might be considerable.
Cheers,
Brian Cole
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:39:34 PST
From: Darryl Richman <darrylri@microsoft.com>
Subject: re: Hallertau, Hallertauer
To explain this distinction, one must understand a little bit about the
German language (that's about all I understand). If you have a place
name, such as Berlin, then someone or something that comes from that
place is Berliner. (This explains the oft mentioned "joke" about JFK's
"Ich bin ein Berliner" speach; a Berliner is someone who comes from
Berlin, but a particularly style of doughnut also originates in Berlin
and is often simply known as a Berliner too; hence, the "I am a jelly
doughnut" translation.) So, we have Hallertau-Hallertauer,
Tettnang-Tettnanger, and Saaz-Saazer. The latter doesn't get much use,
perhaps because the official AHA style guide suggests Hallertauer and
Tettnanger, but forbids Saazer.
--Darryl Richman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 11:21:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit" <ericwade@CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Carboy cleaning
After racking or bottling I've been adding about 1/2 to 1 cup each of
trisodium phosphate TSP and chlorine bleach to my carboys, filling each
with water and storing until my next batch. By this time all the nasties
from the previous batch have dissolved. I rinse very well and santize
with idophor (.5 oz./5 gallons). I've never found the need to scrub the
inside of the carboys with a brush (sometimes just a quick scrub around
the bottle neck). Never had an infected batch since adopting this method.
Aside from the environmental reasons against pouring this much junk down
the drain, are their any beery reasons why I should abandon or adjust this
cleaning method?
Eric Wade
Internet: ericwade@class.org
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1104, 03/24/93
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