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HOMEBREW Digest #1105
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/03/25 00:15:52
HOMEBREW Digest #1105 Thu 25 March 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: SpecialIssues/DryYeast/Secondary?/Kiwi SS/Sanitation/Hallertauer/Baderbrau (korz)
Pub Draught Guinness (Gerald Winters)
Re: (Tony Babinec) big brewers brewing ales? (Richard Saunders)
Texas Brewpub Rumors (Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral)
Boiling specialty grains? (SWEENERB)
Just a reminder (TOMBOROON{)
Rolled Oats and Judges (Ron Karwoski)
Big Brother is Watching (Jack Schmidling)
Coiled tube manifold-fitting in an Igloo cooler (Dennis J. Templeton)
Jeff Frane's Carapils/Dextrine info (Al Marshall)
Towers ("Rad Equipment")
Thermostat placement in a freezer (Patrick_Waara.WBST129)
Carapils (Jack Schmidling)
starters ("Knight,Jonathan G")
Culturing Duvel Yeast (24-Mar-1993 1526)
Re: Cider (Robert Schultz)
Questions on priming with DME, and Warm climate brewing (Markham R. Elliott)
brass,zymurgy,dark grains,chimay clone (Russ Gelinas)
Pete's Wicked Clone (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Whitbread Warning (George J Fix)
FOOD GRADE PLASTICS (Alan McRae)
Dark grains at mashout (Eric Wade)
Lager Starers / Starter SG (Lee Menegoni)
Niagra/Buffalo or even Rochester beer retailers? (Nick Zentena)
Hops and submersion chiller? (Jim Bayer)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 13:47 CST
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: SpecialIssues/DryYeast/Secondary?/Kiwi SS/Sanitation/Hallertauer/Baderbrau
Rob writes:
>To the point: all of the special issues of Zymurgy from past years
>can be back ordered, and I'm interested in opinions as to which
>(if any) are worthwhile for an old dog who's always willing to
>learn new tricks.
>
>The issues in question:
>
>1985 All-grain 1986 Malt Extract 1987 Troubleshooting
>1988 Brewers and their Gadgets 1989 Yeast 1990 Hops and Beer
>1991 Beer Styles 1992 Gadgets and Equipment
In my humble opinion (IMHO), these back issues are all quite good or better
and fall into three categories: good, great and indispensable.
I believe the good are the 1986 and 1991, and the great are the 1985,
1988 and the 1992. The indispensable are the 1987, 1989 and the 1990.
I literally refer to the 1990 on each batch I brew and refer to the
1987, 1989 and 1991 at least once per month. I should refer to the
1988 and 1992 during the summers (but I don't) when I have the time to
build new hardware. Perhaps this summer.
****************************
Geoff writes:
>So what is the best OG for a starter? Is the value different for culturing
>up from a small amount (say from a slant), from that for growing an existing
>large colony (say from a packet of dried yeast)? Or, assuming that one might
>culture from 10ml to 100ml and then to 1lt, should one use the same OG medium
>for the 2 stages, or might it be better if they were different?
I have this information scattered among files and books, but don't have the
time to compile it all into a meaningful, concise answer. However, your
mention of dry yeast brings up an important point, the source of which I
recall. According to the Lallemand Yeast Newsletter as well as several
other sources, DRY YEAST SHOULD BE REHYDRATED IN PLAIN, STERILE (as much
as possible) WATER -- NOT WORT. It all has to do with hydrostatic pressure
and some other technical stuff, which I didn't store in my head, but the
importance of this is generally agreed upon in the literature.
********************
Richard writes:
> Three days ago I made a Trappist ale and used a cultured Chimay for
>yeast. It began fermenting that night and fermented vigorously for the next
>two days.
> Now it has slowed way down and the S.P. is within 2 points of that
>specified in the receipe.
> Is it time to go to the secondary even though it has only been three
>days? The receipe called for three weeks in the primary and one week in the
>secondary.(Cats Meow Ed2 pg. 9-18)
I would omit the secondary. You must have had some very lively yeast or
fermented at a higher temperature than the author of the recipe or perhaps
aerated better than the author. At this point, now that the beer is almost
done, going to a secondary would only increase the risk of infection and
an additional racking would aerate the beer more than if you just racked
it into the bottling vessel when the beer is done. I feel that, in this
case, the benefits are not outweighed by the possible problems.
***************************
DAVID writes:
>Subject: Looking for stainless containers in New Zealand?
Don't they raise cows in New Zealand? Try a dairy for surplus equipment.
***************************
Russ writes:
>>Steam Sterilization: (p.49)
>> ...
>>At least 30 min steam treatment at 1 bar over pressure after the equipment
>>has heated to 100C is necessary to achieve sterilisation of a
>>cleaned piece of equipment."
>
>Yes, for *sterilization*. *Sanitization*, which is sufficient for most of
>homebrewing, is much less rigorous, and more easily achieved. Steam and
>boiling water seem to be very good sanitizers.
I recently read somewhere that 30 minutes of pressure cooking a rubber
stopper did not kill some Pediococcus bacteria. Immediately upon reading
this, I went downstairs and labeled my 20 gal HDPE pLambik fermenter
and all the stoppers and hoses I used "LAMBIK ONLY." I plan to keep them
separate from my conventional beer equipment.
**************************
Jack writes:
>>Subject: Yeast Lab, Hallertau in porters
> ^^^^^^^^^
>>Thanks to all who replied on the subject of Hallertauer in porters.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>Would someone please provide the correct spelling for this word?
Actually, Hallertauer is more correct. The "er" suffix in German generally
means "of" or "from" therefore, "Hallertauer" are hops with direct lineage
to the type of hop that was grown in the Hallertau area. "Hallertau" is
kind of correct, but bad grammar. Consider "Boston Lager" versus
"Bostonian Lager."
> >From: korz@iepubj.att.com
>
> >With all due respect to you, Jack, and at the risk of bringing an abrupt
> end to the pleasant demeanor (and humor) you've recently displayed in
> HBD, I'd like to dispute Ken Pavichevich's claims that Baderbrau is a
> Pilsener.
>
> Tis not my wont to end pleasant things by propounding on that which I know
> nothing about.
On the contrary, it appears that you know enough about Pilsener to take
2nd place in Pilsener at the 1993 "Who Died and Made Us B.O.S.S.?" Competition.
> I was simply re-stating claims made by the brewer. The claims (also by the
> brewer) that M.Jackson ageed, seemed to offer some weight but after all, they
> are all in it for one reason and the tendancy to offer mutual support seems
> to over ride absolute truth.
Perhaps this is true. I've discussed this off-line with Jim Busch, and have,
with some prodding from George Fix, conceded that Baderbrau is too bitter and
too dark to be a true Munich Helles but my way of looking at it is as a
over-hopped Helles rather than a too-malty Pilsener. Perhaps, as Jim
suggested in private email, a new category is needed for beers such as
Baderbrau and Samuel(tm) Adams(tm) Boston(tm) Lager(tm).
I propose the name: "Robust American Lager."
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 15:12:16 -0500
From: Gerald Winters <gerald@citi.umich.edu>
Subject: Pub Draught Guinness
from Phil Hultin...
>I must say that I am surprised at all the enthusiasm for canned Guinness.
>When I tried it (a 4-pack, shortly after it was introduced) I was totally
>unimpressed.
I would like to second Phil Hultin's comments. One of the common
complaints about BudMichMiller is the rather thin palate or general
lack of flavor. Well certainly canned Guinness does a bit better but,
hey, it tastes watery to me. I'll stick with the bottled version.
Gerald Winters
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 13:31:09 PST
From: Richard Saunders <richsa@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: (Tony Babinec) big brewers brewing ales?
One thing to note about Miller's Special Reserve beers:
They are "100% Barley Draft" not "100% (made from) Barley".
All they are claiming (legally) is that there is barley in the
beer and that it is 100% draft. Tricky bastards. Me still tastes
quite a bit of corn (or something) in these brews! Still, it tastes
better to me than their regular GD (Genuine Draft) stuff.....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 00:20:59 CST
From: Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral <slamb@milp.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Texas Brewpub Rumors
Well, seeing as how I haven't seen anything on this subject
lately from our friends at SW Brewing News, I'll contribute
my share of the latest hearsay.
I was at the Houston Foam Ranger meeting last Friday night,
and one of our members was conspicuous by his presence. He
works in one of the better pubs in town, and is usually
at work when the meetings are held. I know that he is keen
on the brewpub legislation, so I "tapped" him for some
information while we partook of a keg of raisin/cinnamon
mead.
The public hearing on the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Comission
Sunset bill took place on 15 March. The committee holding
the hearing had to review the whole bill, which is rather
thick, so they didn't want to spend a lot of time on the
pesky brewpub thing. I guess the people lobbying for this
are doing a good job, because the brewpub section of the
bill was replaced with wholesale with a new section.
The details are that there will a separate brewpub license
available in Texas. It will allow the production and sale
of beer and "malt liquor" (Texas legalese for beer w/> 4.0%
alc. by volume) for sale on-site and "to go". It will
allow "bright beer" tanks for serving. The license will
cost $500 for each increment of 5000 barrels of production
the licensee wishes to produce. The license _will not_
allow the licensee to distribute its own product. This
seems to be the only concession to the Texas Beer Wholesalers
Association, which has been the group holding up this
type of legislation in the past. The bill, if passed to
the House floor by the committee, and then approved, and
then if a similar bill were passed in the Senate, is
supposed to take effect Sept.1.
I predict a good contingent from Texas at the Institute for
Brewing Studies convention/shindig in New Orleans next month!
I also predict that there will be at least on brewpub in
Houston by this time next year, if not earlier.
If you couldn't tell, all of the above is hearsay and
conjecture on my part. Maybe Joe Barfield can verify
this for me.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. _ . _____________
|\_|/__/| / \
/ / \/ \ \ / Happy! Happy! \
/__|O||O|__ \ \ Joy! Joy! /
|/_ \_/\_/ _\ | \ ___________/
| | (____) | || |/
\/\___/\__/ // _/
(_/ ||
| Real ||\ Sean Lamb (slamb@milp.jsc.nasa.gov)
\ Beer //_/ Loral Space Info Systems
\______// Houston, Texas, USofA, Earth, Sol
__|| __||
(____(____)
------------------------------
Date: 24 Mar 1993 00:41:04 -0600 (CST)
From: SWEENERB@memstvx1.memst.edu
Subject: Boiling specialty grains?
I was wondering if anyone holds an intelligent opinion about boiling specialty
grains like chocolate malt as opposed to just steeping them in 165-170 degree
water which will be added to the boiled wort made from malt extract. Since I
have not as yet tried all-grain brewing I still boil in a 4 gallon pot, so I
boil half my water first, store it in the carboy then add the wort after a
subsequent boil. On my last batch I decided to steep the specialty grains
after finishing the initial boil, then strained them out of the water and
added boiled wort. Is there a downside to this procedure? That batch,
a porter tasted pretty good, a reasonable extract facsimilie of Anchor Porter-
yumm, but the vast experiences of the HBD might convince me of the error of my
wheys.
Also, Miller's CHofHB recommends aerating the wort at 1hour intervals after
racking to the primary, then after 8-12 hours racking again off the hot&cold
break. I have tried this a few times and have not been able to tell any
difference. Is this worth the trouble? Any comments, observations, etc. would
be greatly appreciated.
Bob Sweeney - SWEENERB@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Memphis State University
Status: Permanent Student
(901) MSU-4210
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Dogbert's First Rule of Innovation: Companies are generally slow to adopt new
ways of business, especially if it means a reduction in their beloved paper.
Dilbert: I created a computerized interactive multimedia training tool for the
department.
Boss: Wonderful. Make some photocopies and route it around.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Mar 1993 01:44:10 -0500 (EST)
From: TOMBOROON{ <STETLERT@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU>
Subject: Just a reminder
Hi. I know this isn't the kind of message you folks feel like seeing in
this digest, but give me a few seconds of your time, could you? About a
week ago, my younger brother died in an automobile accident. Alcohol was
involved. I don't understand why things had to happen the way they did.
Probably never will... but I can't help thinking about how the driver of
the other car could have saved my family quite a bit of grief if he had
bothered to call a cab or get a friend to drive him home.
I have nothing against homebrewing. To many of us, it's much more than a
hobby. It's an art, a science, a tradition, and a way of life all rolled
into one. But we often forget the incredible responsibility we have to
our safety, and that of those around us. Please don't drink and drive.
Tom Stetler
Stetlert@vxc.uncwil.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 07:15:52 CST
From: rak@mayo.EDU (Ron Karwoski)
Subject: Rolled Oats and Judges
All this talk about using oat bran vs rolled oats has reminded me
of a problem I had with my last batch of beer. Following TCJOHB2
recipe for Uckleduckfay Oatmeal Stout I did a partial mash using
rolled oats (Quaker non-instant breakfast type) and other grains.
The resulting beer tastes good, although it is a little thin,
probably due to poor extraction. Anyway, the beer is well carbonated
but has zero head. A very "loose" head forms when the beer is
poured but quickly disappears. I'm not quite sure what the problem
is but I am wondering if the rolled oats had anything to do with
this. Any ideas?
Also our Club is looking at organizing a hombrew competition for
our county fair in August. What we need are judges. Is there a list
of registered judges someplace? How does one go about hiring a judge
and what are typical costs? Also, anyone know what it takes to become
an AHA sanctioned competition and is it worth it?
Thanks.
Ron Karwoski Internet: rak@bru.mayo.edu
Rochester, Minnesota
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 09:17 CST
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Big Brother is Watching
Another incredible tale of the evils of bigger government was played out on
the 10 O'Clock news last night. It's another good example of what Big
Brother does with our hard earned tax money and why we should refuse him one
more cent.
Instead of arresting drug dealers that can be found on thousands of street
corners any night (or day) of the week, the FBI choses to hassle homebrewers
with our tax money.
They mounted a remote TV camera on a utility pole in front of Alternative
Garden Supply in a suburb and monitor everyone who enters and leaves the
store. The camera is on a transformer whose top insulator sports a UHF
antenna instead of the usual wire running up to the HV line. Not terribly
clever but seems to work.
The next thing they did was to open a sting headquarters in a shop in an
adjacent shoppping center and staff it with a dozen or so agents. They
either sit and monitor the tv or watch in patrol cars parked in the parking
lot of AGS. When they see someone who fits the "profile" of an evil drug
dealer, they follow him/her home and bluff their way into whole house
searches including dogs to sniff out the evil weed. Needless to say, so far
they have found nothing and have spent millions.
I did my patriotic duty and drove out there and gave the old "vulgar salute"
to the camera and had a chat with Dave Itel, the owner. I tried to talk
Marilyn into giving the camera a moon but she declined and just waived.
It is truly pathetic and I suggest you all drop a line to the best friend Big
Government ever had. He can be reached on line at:
75300.3115@compuserve.com (via CompuServe)
clintonpz@aol.com (via America Online)
clinton-hq@campaign92.org (via MCI Mail)
js
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 10:58:05 -0500
From: djt2@po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Coiled tube manifold-fitting in an Igloo cooler
Richard.Goldstein@EBay.Sun.COM described a coiled copper tubing manifold
with slots cut into it...
Your description is identical to the one I've been using for two years, and
has appeared on HBD before all of the "T" fitting freaks appeared. Have at it.
I'm writing mainly to point out that if you use 3/8 inch tubing, a 3/8 in
bulkhead union (tube to tube) will fit snugly in the outlet of an Igloo
cooler mashtun.
One supplier: USA Plastics Fax # 419-228-5034 orders 800 537-9724
3/8 in polypropylene bulkhead union #61123, $1.20 (minimum order $10)
One difference between your description and mine is the stand tube... I
don't really understand why one is desirable (except in a RIMS) All I can
see that doing is sucking air into the drain tube, leading to hot side
aeration (Gasp!). Why not just let it trickle ad libitum??
have fun...
dennis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 9:16:58 PST
From: alm@brewery.ht.intel.com (Al Marshall)
Subject: Jeff Frane's Carapils/Dextrine info
> "Carapils(R) (dextrine) malt has an almost completely "glassy" endosperm,
no enzymatic activity and somewhat less extract than standard brewers malt.
It greatly improves body, foam retention and beer stability without
increasing color or changing beer flavor profile, through non-fermentable
components. It is an elegant and inexpensive "natural" alternative to
alginates.
"Caramel malt also has an almost completely glassy endosperm, similar to
Carapils. It yields various color intensities in the desirable golden-red
hues. Standardized products in the 20 degree, 40d, 60d, 80d and 120d
Lovibond colors are readily available. Other variations are custom-made
upon request, volume permitting.
Thanks a lot for this information. I've inferred from your
malt-extract+specialties recipes
that dextrine malt did not need to be mashed with other malts,
and this (and one other
piece I've seen) seems to be confirmation. I'm left to wonder
about various other authorities that confidently state that dextrine malt
needs to be mashed with enzymatic malts. Is there a property of dextrine malt
that we haven't discussed?
-- Al Marshall
------------------------------
Date: 24 Mar 1993 08:16:20 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment@rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Towers
Subject: Towers Time:7:51 AM Date:3/24/93
Sam Atkinson asks for feedback on the Owens-like Tower:
I have a similar tower except I use another converted keg for a hot liquor tank
with it's own burner so I don't need the pump. Gravity is certainly the way to
go. My only caveat would be the use of Igloo brand coolers. I have a 52 quart
Igloo which has made about 22 ten gallon batches. While it is still in use, the
interior of the cooler has deformed considerably with time. In fact there were
blisters evident after the very first batch. Other brewers who have Igloo
coolers report the same results. I still use mine because in spite of the
blisters there is no evidence of cracks in the plastic interior. Still, I think
that Coleman coolers seem to stand up better to the heat of mashing. I took a
survey of cooler users some time ago and the majority used Coleman. I expect
I'll replace mine with a Coleman when the time comes.
RW...
Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment@radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 10:16:00 PST
From: Patrick_Waara.WBST129@xerox.com
Subject: Thermostat placement in a freezer
I just bought a new freezer to do my lagering and keg storage which I intend to
control using my Hunter Airstat Monitor. I have a question, though, regarding
the placement of the thermostat. (That is, the actual remote measuring piece
of the thermostat on the end of the black wire.) When I put it on the wall of
the freezer, it seemed to give me a false reading as the walls of the freezer
are much colder than the actual air in it. I considered hanging it from the
lid, but I'm afraid it might catch on the kegs when I lift the lid and tear off
the wire. Where do people who use a freezer as their refrigerator place their
thermostat?
~Pat
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:15 CST
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Carapils
>From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
>"Carapils(R) (dextrine) malt has an almost completely "glassy" endosperm,
no enzymatic activity and somewhat less extract than standard brewers malt.
It greatly improves body, foam retention and beer stability without
increasing color or changing beer flavor profile...
It is my opinion that this definition (like the one for Munich malt) does not
apply to the D-K malt from Belgium. Furthermore, I do not understand the (R)
or the dextrine designation.
I would describe the D-K carapils as hard but chewy endosperm and anything
but glassy.
It furthermore has a flavor that is easily recognizable and contributes
significantly to the flavor profile and in line with what I taste in an
imported Pilsner.
BTW, another spelling question. Pilsner or Pilsener or .....?
js
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:18:18 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: starters
For the record, I've been using the yeast-starting advice given me by a friend
who is a great homebrewer. I boil up one cup of DME in a little over a liter
of water,ending up with between 750-1,000 ml's after boiling and cooling.
I have no idea what S.G. this comes out to, but I do get absolutely great
starts.
However, for the sake of simplicity, I think Jack has the best idea - just
save a pint from your last batch!! (all together now: "DUHHH!") Anything
that saves me time making beer so I can spend more time enjoying the
results, I'm in favor of.
Jack, how careful are you about what kind of beer you save for starters?
Have you ever used, say, an Imperial Stout for a starter for a Pilsener?
Or do you always use less strongly-flavored worts for starters?
Anyone else have experience with this method?
Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 12:36:07 PST
From: 24-Mar-1993 1526 <ide@studio.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Culturing Duvel Yeast
I'm planning to culture the yeast from a bottle of Duvel and I have a few
questions:
- Should I worry about mutation from the high alcohol content?
- Does Moortgat use different yeasts for fermentation and bottle conditioning?
- What are its characteristics, i.e. attenuation, esters, flavors?
Any comments about Duvel and its yeast? This will be my first taste of this
devilish brew and I'm really looking forward to it.
Thanks for any help!
Jamie Ide
ide@studio.enet.dec.com
------------------------------
Date: 24 Mar 1993 14:13:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Schultz <SCHULTZ@admin1.usask.ca>
Subject: Re: Cider
KILLING YEAST in/for CIDER:
I think a better method to kill off the yeast is Potassium Sorbate, (as
apposed to Campden tablets). Use about 1/2 tsp of Potassium Sorbate to 5 gal.
Then adjust sweetness with apple juice if making cider...this kind of falls out
of one of the recipes from the Cat's Meow II. If you want carbonation, you must
do it with CO2.
My last batch ended with FG 0.994. I added 12.5 oz of McCain frozen
concentrate Apple juice and the 'new' FG was 1.000 -- could be a bit sweeter,
but a few months of waiting may help ???
As for Jack Schmidling's comment about adding sugar until the yeast dies
may not be a good idea... this is how high alcohol content ports are made....by
adding small increments of sugar you are in effect conditioning the yeast
(actually I think you kill off the week cells and continue the ferment with some
of the stronger -- mutants?). The concentration of alcohol changes the taste
(or how one perceives the taste) of the final product.
Hope this helps.
Robert Schultz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ...
Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun." - Gary Larson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 20:49:52 GMT
From: u4imdmre@cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil (Markham R. Elliott)
Subject: Questions on priming with DME, and Warm climate brewing
Hello all, I'm back with more novice-level questions and comments, looking for
guidance & advice from those with the requisite skill level.
In a mid-February posting, I asked for advice about 1.) Using a secondary
fermentation vessel, and 2.) Recommendations about priming agents/amounts, and
using a bottling bucket. Thanks to all who responded either here in the HBD or
via private e-mail. By sifting through the advice, comments, recommendations,
cautions and anecdotes, employing the secondary went off without a hitch, but
using a DME/water solution as a priming agent just didn't cut it.
Using the "most recommended" 1.25 cups boiled in water turned my "amber-clear"
beer in the carboy into a cloudy mess. Once bottled, it took about 12 days to
settle back out, and when I cracked the first bottle this past weekend, only a
miniscule 'pffsssst'. The second, third, fourth and ..... bottles were'nt any
fizzier. Two and a half cases of nearly flat beer. >:-( "Boo, Hiss", no, that
should be "Boo, no Hiss". To add insult to injury, I've got the chill-haze
blues too (first time ever).
Papazian recommends for that flat beer, adding some dry yeast into each bottle,
recapping & re-conditioning. I contend there was enough yeast present based on
the activity of the original fermentation, and the sediment in the bottles.
His second recommendation (after trying adding more yeast) is un-capping and
adding sugar to each bottle. Gee, this was what I was trying to get away from
by using another vessel to prime in & bottle from. At any rate, believe me, you
can't add very much dry corn sugar to a semi-carbonated liquid! Talk about
fluid dynamics!! (;->) I ended up dissolving the sugar into an equal amount of
distilled water, boiling for a few seconds, cooling then adding .25 tsp to each
of 6 bottles as a test. We'll see what happens in a week or 10 days.
Was I supposed to do the "1-hour rolling-boil/hot-break/cold-break" routine to
the DME/H2O priming solution too? Y'all suppose the chill haze came from the
priming agent solution or simply because of bad technique while attempting my
first syrup/DME batch? Should I attribute the lack of carbonation to a
lower-than-expected sugar content of the DME?
Some days I guess you just can't win for losing. Right now I'm gonna go home
and mix me a flat homebrew with one that has "character" (Papazian's final
recommendation). I just can't bring myself to feed my beer to the wife's
Magnolia trees.
A question for all you warm climate brewers out there:
At what temperature do I have to put my toys away for the summer? Here in
deepest Dixie, the daily temperatures are getting ready to skyrocket, and I will
not be able to use the garage for brewing or conditioning, I suspect in just a
couple of weeks or so. This past winter, I fermented everything under the sink
in a spare bathroom where the ambient temperatures were fairly constant between,
say, 67-72^F. The garage fluctuates too much from day to night, and from day to
day to realistically depend on, though I had no qualms using it to cool, age and
condition bottled brews.
I customarily maintain the house between 75-82^F in the summer in order to keep
the A/C bill within reason, and then crank up the ceiling fans. From what
little I have read, I understand that the upper limit of acceptable fermentation
temperatures is about 72^F. If I continue to ferment & condition at the higher
temps, can I reasonablly expect ok results, given the fact I am still a novice
extract-er?
Frustrated, disappointed, but still hanging in there.
Noch einmal, bitte!! Mark
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Markham R. Elliott u4imdmre@cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil
Information Technology Laboratory (601) 634-2921
Waterways Experiment Station
Vicksburg, Mississippi USA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 16:12:55 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: brass,zymurgy,dark grains,chimay clone
Lots of topics...
First, I read in a health newsletter than *brass* fittings, ie. a brass
spigot, especially when new, can leach lead into water. What is brass?
Copper and ???.
Re. Zymurgy special issues: I refer to the 1991 AHA Beer Styles issue
quite a bit. Most articles are well written; not many errors.
Dark grains in mash or mashout? Depends what you're looking for. If
you want a hard bite, which I look for in a stout for example, put them in
the mash. If you want it smoother, as in a dark lager, put them in the
mashout.
Rich S. is concerned about racking his Chimay clone to secondary after
only 3 days. What temperature did it ferment at? What was the OG? What
is the gravity now? 1 week primary and 3 weeks secondary seem like a
longer time than should be necessary. My lastest batch, OG 1.045 fermented
at 65 deg F with Chimay yeast, was ready in half that time. This was
also yeast that was cultured from a bottle brought back from Belgium, so
it may have been extra fresh and lively. But I'd say treat it as you would
any other ale - it should finish in a couple of weeks.
FWIW, a bunch of Bud drinkers had some of mine last night, and they liked
it a lot. Go figure.
Russ G.
UNH
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:57:38 -0600
From: trl@photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Pete's Wicked Clone
Robert Pulliam <pulliam@monty.rand.org>
called for recipes a couple days ago...
>Have any of you successfully cloned "Pete's Wicked Ale"? If so, I would
>love to get your recipe.
Well Robert, try this...
8# domestic 2-row
1# CaraMunich
1# CaraVienne
1# dark German
8 oz CaraPils
6 oz chocolate
Mash-in 4 gallons at 57 C (135F) strike heat.
Falls to 52C (126F). Protein rest 30 minutes.
Raise to 68C (154F),
Saccrification 2 hours.
No mashout due to brain-cloud. You probably should
Sparge with 6 gallons at 75C (167F)
Got 7-1/2 ~ 7-3/4 gallons. Gravity is 1046.
Extraction = 29.7 points/#/gallon.
Boil 90 minutes.
4.4 aau Fuggles for 60 minutes,
4.4 aau Fuggles for 30 minutes,
5.2 aau Kent Goldings for 2 minutes.
Chill to 25C (75F). OG = 1060.
Pitch Wyeast 1098
If your extraction rates are routinely below mine, add grain accordingly in your
recipe. Just add to the two-row, don't bother to adjust the specialty malts,
its just not necessary. My water is fairly soft, and slightly alkaline. I use
two tsp gypsum in my mash water. Your mileage, of course, may vary. If you
want a 1055 beer, lose 1# of two-row. But I like mine at 1060. FG was 1018. I
had to add 1/2 gallon water at bottling to bring volume up to 5 gallons. Let us
know how it comes out...
t
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 15:50:28 -0600
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Whitbread Warning
The following is my opinion of the situation described in Brian Cole's
post in HBD#1104.
Most of the lt. crystal malt I am familiar with has a carbohydrate
structure loaded with 1-6 links. These will not be broken in a
normal mash, regardless of when they were added. At the ~9% charge Brian
reported, he should have gotten a nontrivial dextrin pool.
It is very hard to get a good handle on things based on one batch,
however I suspect the culprit may be the Whitbread yeast. The heat
dried version is produced in the UK under license from the Whitbread
Brewing Co. at a special yeast plant. This plant went out of production
in 1991 because of a serious wild yeast infection. Production was just
resumed in a new facility in January of this year. These products
are only now being distributed to homebrew shops. The versions of the
dry yeast available before say Mar. 1, 1993 were the old yeast. Reports
that I have seen indicate that 25-35% of the old yeast had unacceptable
levels of nonculture strains. The latter were super attenuators, and
were reported to leave flavoring like Brian described. The old yeast also
also had to be at least 1 1/2- 2 years in age.
I have personally checked the new Whitbread yeast under a contract with
Crosby and Baker. There was no pressure to "whitewash" defects, and in
fact there was motivation the other way. C+B has a refusal clause with
producers whereby they can return any yeast without charge if samples do
not meet commercial standards with respect to both infections
and viability. To make a long story short, the new Whitbread dry yeast
passed with flying colors. My detailed report with plate counts will soon
be available from C+B. It should be noted, however, that the "pure" (3
strain) Whitbread yeast will give characteristic tangy, fruity flavor
tones. Some like these tones, while others react in a much different way
to them.
It looks to me like this is the start of a trend whereby a large number of
the producers of dry yeast start to clean up their act. Data as reported
in the Cal-Davis study (see Zymurgy's special yeast issue) may become a
relic of the past. IMHO we all have the folks at Wyeast to thank for this.
They were to first to set proper standards, which the others are now
apparently trying to match.
In a large number of cases when people complain that their beers are too
dry and lack sweetness, some sort of infection (low, moderate, or high)
seems to have played a part. Certainly the acid forming bacteria will
make a beer seem thinner than normal and unpleasantly dry. Yeast like
S. diastaticus will do this and at the same time leave medicinal/phenolic
tones. The wild yeast that occasionally turned up in the old dry Whitbread
yeast were apparently not as distructive. Nevertheless, if my conjectures
are correct, Brian was done a disservice by the Whitbread folks in the UK.
George Fix
P.S. We were at a Pilsner tasting earlier this week. All the beers were
German, and fresh (a real rarity for Texas). The two favorites were Konig Pils
and Veltins. Both were very hoppy (IBU~35-40), and well attenuated with a
distinct dry finish. Yet both were very malty and extremely smooth. The
net effect was that they were very clean beers with highly attractive flavors.
Thus a dry finish is not always undesirable.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 17:30:37 EST
From: alan@math.sunysb.edu (Alan McRae)
Subject: FOOD GRADE PLASTICS
There has been some discussion recently about constructing electric boilers using plastic buckets. Since I only have 120V outlets and do not have access to any area where I could use a propane burner I have been using two Thorne Electrim Bims (2 are necessary since I start out with 7 gallons of wort to be boiled). These consist of a heating unit, a thermostat and a plastic bucket with a drum tap (these things are probably very similar to bruheat boilers). I think the bucket is either polyethylene or polypropolene (bruheat boilers use polypropolene). The question is this: What plastics are safe to use at boiling te!
mperatures with beer?
As an aside, I was told that people have had problems getting these Bims to even boil water. When I first got mine only one would boil water. I took the back off the thermostat of the one that would not boil water and adjusted the adjusting screw (Do not press down on the screw too hard!). Then I used strips of a foil-backed insulation (see the latest special issue of Zymurgy where Randy Mosher(?) tells how to insulate a lauter-tun) to insulate the buckets. These buckets will bring 3 1/2 gallons of 150 degree wort to a boil in less than half an hour: Not too great but better than nothing. By the way, these units work better if th!
e back plate of the
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:27:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade@CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Dark grains at mashout
Recent postings have advocated adding dark grains only at mashout.
Should the bill for the dark grains be adjusted if they are added at
mashout or use the same quantity as if they were added at mash in?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 17:28:47 EST
From: Lee Menegoni <necis!lmenegon@transfer.stratus.com>
Subject: Lager Starers / Starter SG
In HBD 1100 J.Williamson indicated he had a long lag time
when he tried to expand his culture from the Wyeast pak.
Using the recommendation from Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer"
of pitching a large population of yeast into fermentation temp
wort I took the following steps and had vigorous fermentation in
45F wort in less than 12 hours. The intent of this procedure is
twofold 1) produce a large volume of yeast slurry 2) acclimate
the yeast to the fermentation temp to minimize shock.
Day 1: Pop Wyeast Bohemian Lager yeast pak at room temp 70F 8:00 AM
Day 2: Pitch the Wyeast pak contents with 12oz of 65F 20sg wort 7:00PM
Day 3: Add an additional 12oz of 60F 20sg wort 7:00PM
Day 4: Pour of 2/3 of liquid, add 24oz of 55F 20sg wort 7:00PM
Day 5:
Day 6: Pour off 2/3 of liquid, add 24oz of 50F 20sg wort 7:00PM
Day 7: Pour off 2/3 of liquid, add 24 oz of 45F 20sg wort 10:00AM
And on the sevent day he brewed.
And when the day was done he looked at his wort and (hoped) it was good.
I pitched all the liquid and the slurry into the 45F wort at about 10PM
I checked the brew the next morning and it had a thin milky film over it
with bubbles coming out of the S airlock every few seconds.
Notes: Day 1 - 3 the starter bottle was left in my 65F basement wrapped
in 2 towels and put inside a cooler. Days 4 - 7 the starter was in my temp
controlled refridgerator. By leaving some liquid with each step the temp
changes are a bit more gradual also there is a substantial population in
the liquid.
I always make starters with 20 - 25sg wort. I produce this starter liquid
by half filling 2 gallon bottles with trub from a brewing session. I then
fill these bottles with very cold water and let them settle. I rack off the
clear liquid from the two jugs and por
pour it in to 12oz bottles, other people I know use canning jars, I then
immerse these bottles in water and heat until the contents of them are
190 - 200F. I maintain this temp for 10 - 15 minutes and cap. This gives
me a ready supply of 1/2 gravity wort for starters and I don't feel so bad
about leaving stuff behind when I rack off the trub since It gets used.
I target a 6 gallon batch so I end up with about 5 gallons going in the keg.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:49:38 -0500
From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead@canrem.com>
Subject: Niagra/Buffalo or even Rochester beer retailers?
Hi,
Considering the less then exciting range of imported beers
currently available in the Toronto area I'm thinking
of making a run south of the border.
1) Does anybody know of any retailers in hopefully
the Niagara/Buffalo that carry some interesting
Lambics?[Currently only Morte Subite gueze is
available locally] Hopefully something unfiltered.
At worse how about Rochester?
2) Does anybody know the name of the US importer(s)
for the better lambics?
3) How expensive are these products in the US?
Thanks
Nick
Mail would be best.
*****************************************************************************
I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles!
zen%hophead@canrem.com
*****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 19:03:18 -0600 (CST)
From: brewmstr@genesis.mcs.com (Jim Bayer)
Subject: Hops and submersion chiller?
I've been rereading TNCJOHB because I'm shortly going to mash (this weekend)
and I ran across some info that I never caught before. It says that you
should always seperate the hops from the wort before cooling it. If this is
true, how do I use an immersion chiller? I don't recall anyone I've ever
heard of straining out the hops or removing the wort from the brewpot
before they used a submersion chiller.
Do I need a hopback setup or what?
Jim
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
| Remember: Brewing is not a matter of life and death. |
| It is much more important than that! |
|=============================================================== |
| Jim Bayer -> Chicago, my kind of town! The windy city |
| brewmstr@ddsw1.mcs.com 72416.1044@compuserve.com |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1105, 03/25/93
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