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HOMEBREW Digest #1098
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/03/16 00:20:22
HOMEBREW Digest #1098 Tue 16 March 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
PH meters / Lauter Tun design (Lee Menegoni)
re: Two Seperate Questions on: Kegging and Bitterness (Brew Free Or Die 12-Mar-1993 1553)
yeast 34/70 ("Daniel F McConnell")
re: demerara & turbinado (Brew Free Or Die 12-Mar-1993 1745)
Water filter questions... (Brewmeister Gene)
First and second runnings (Rob Bradley)
Where Did My Saaz Nose Go ? (Timothy J. Dalton)
BrewPubs in Europe (Nir Navot)
Metallic taste, old hops (SOMAK)
Extract Efficency (Jack Schmidling)
publications from the AHA (J. Fingerle)
sparge manifolds ("Spencer W. Thomas")
Oxygenated Water? (esonn1)
Wyeast Abuse !! (Kevin Krueger)
?SS Cleaning Agents? (Chris McDermott)
Re: "German" porter (Jeff Benjamin)
More on copper slots ("Rad Equipment")
~r beer-cancer (Bill Szymczak)
re: beer, root beer and cancer (Bill Szymczak)
Overkill with TSP; Er, I forget... (Jeff Frane)
Manifold, Draino (Jack Schmidling)
My Lauter Tun (Carlo Fusco)
Add to homebrew (Bob Walker 2152)
Reduction of Wort volume during boiling (atl)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 15:39:21 EST
From: Lee Menegoni <necis!lmenegon@transfer.stratus.com>
Subject: PH meters / Lauter Tun design
Recently there was a thread on PH meters. I would
like to know wher can I get one, what is the price
and what comments do people have on specific models.
I have heard of one model called " Check It"
any details??
I currently use a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a 1"
high false bottom and spigot on the side as a lauter
tun. This container is jacketed with 1" of foam so
it does a good job of maintaining the temp of the
grain bed. I have considered building a new lauter tun
with a copper tubing manifold and center drain using a
5 gallon food grade bucket. Is this an improvement in
design, cent vs side drain. I also have a Cornelius
keg with a seam leak near the top. I have considered
cutting the top off and making a lauter tun out of it.
What is the ideal height of grain bed for a 5-6 gallon
batch? Would this keg tun be better for 3 gallon batches
is it to narrow and tall for 5 gallon batches.?
Please post responces to the net or
lmenegon@necis.ma.nec.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 12:57:48 PST
From: Brew Free Or Die 12-Mar-1993 1553 <hall@buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: re: Two Seperate Questions on: Kegging and Bitterness
In HBD #1096:
>From: Richard Saunders <richsa@microsoft.com>
>Subject: Two Seperate Questions on: Kegging and Bitterness
>1. My friends and I have twice attempted the Fraternity House Ale (a 5
>gallon version) from the AHA Winner's Circle recipe book. Both times
>the beer has come out alright except for a kick-you-in-the-zipper
>bitter after taste which, as you can imagine, is very unpleasant.
>
>While this recipe is kind of heavy on the hops I have a hard time
>thinking that this is the problem. I have boiled lots of hops for more
>than an hour before and had it turn out fine. Also, for the second
I think the heavy hops is exactly the problem. I considered brewing this beer
last fall, but, beforehand, I went through the math to determine the bittering
levels, using Jackie Rager's wonderful equation from the Zymurgy special issue
on hops. I recall ending up with something like 110 I.B.U. for Ron Page's
Fraternity House Ale. That's not beer - that's beer-flavored bitterness!
I think the recipe is bogus (I don't implicitly trust any of the award-winning
recipes that Zymurgy publishes). Change the hops bill, down to about 35-55
I.B.U. (use one-third to one-half the bittering hops recommended). Or, design
your own recipe, based on F.H.A.
- --
Dan Hall Digital Equipment Corporation MKO1-2/H10 Merrimack, NH 03054
hall@buffa.enet.dec.com ....!decwrl!buffa.dec.com!hall
"Adhere to Schweinheitsgebot
Don't put anything in your beer that a pig wouldn't eat" --David Geary
------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 1993 16:51:07 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell@med.umich.edu>
Subject: yeast 34/70
Subject: Time:4:45 PM
OFFICE MEMO yeast 34/70 Date:3/12/93
>From: Lee Menegoni <necis!lmenegon@transfer.stratus.com>
>Subject: Yeast Slant ?? / Mashed stout / Kegs
>I have been given a slant of Weinstephan 3407 yeast. What information do
>people have on this variety. What temp should I ferment / lager, what are
>its flavor charecteristics, is it stable for reculturing? Please post
>responses to HBD or send to lmenegon@necis.ma.nec.com
Fred Scheer (Frankenmuth Brewery) wrote a short article on this yeast strain in
American Brewer, Summer 1989, pg 19. He uses this yeast for his lagers. All
his beers tend to be very clean, rich and malty in a broadly Bavarian style.
This yeast was chosen because of the use of 6-row malt, high avaliable amino
acids, low zinc, 20 BU with a good dose of hop aroma, 7 day primary ferment,
and need for good flocculation in the lagering tanks.
Here is the data from the article.
Wort analysis:
plato-11.5
apparent attenuation-83.20%
The article indicated that he pitches 1/2L yeast suspension per hL of wort
(12-14 million cells/mL) due to the low (41F, 5C ) pitching temperature.
Primary fermentation is 7 days. Fred makes the following points and considers
them to be required.
-good areation of wort (8-20 mg/L)
-wort free of hot trub
-minimum of cold trub
-34/70 works best at low temp. (41F-45F, 5C-7C)
-after 2 to 3 generations a higher than normal ester component appears. Don't
pitch >6 times.
-low lagering temp (0-2C) to encourage good flocculation.
The bottom line is that if you are using domestic malt like Fred (Breiss, I
think) and want to make Bavarian style dark, bocks or amber (Vienna or marzen)
beers, this culture should do nicely if you ferment COLD and pitch lots of
yeast.
Good brewing
DanMcC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 14:45:58 PST
From: Brew Free Or Die 12-Mar-1993 1745 <hall@buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: re: demerara & turbinado
In #1093:
>From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
>Subject: demerara & turbinado
>"Turbinado" and "Demerara" are the "real" brown sugars. They are
>both partially refined cane sugars. I've heard it said that they
>are, respectively, the American and British names for the same thing.
>However, turbinado is _very_ pale, lighter than a brown paper bag.
>Demerara is about as dark as a brown beer bottle.
There's another "brown sugar" available that hasn't been mentioned yet,
probably because it's not commonly seen (at least I'd never seen it before last
fall). It was brought to my attention by Steve Stroud, who had some in his
cupboard. It's a product called Sucanat (r), and it's 100% evaporated sugar
cane juice. It is unrefined, dried, granulated cane juice, with no additives
and no preservatives. On the container is written "All vitamins, minerals and
other nutrients of cane juice retained, nothing added, only water removed".
There's a chart on the back comparing it to brown sugar, white sugar, dried
maple syrup, liquid honey, and dried malt extract. It is loaded with minerals
and nutrients! It has twice the potassium of brown sugar, 250 times the
potassium of white sugar. It still contains Vitamins A, C, B6, zinc,
magnesium, and calcium, while white sugar has none of those. Yeast should love
it.
It is manufactured by NutraCane, Inc., 5 Meadowbrook Parkway, Milford, NH 03055.
Phone is (603) 672-2801.
I got a 2 kilogram can of it at Bread and Circus in Cambridge, MA for $8.69.
They have since gotten it in bulk, and with your own container it's even
cheaper. I have never seen it sold retail anyplace else (I just left a message
on NutraCane's answering machine about availability - I'll report back what I
find out).
My intention was to brew a Triple using it, but so far it's only gotten as
far as my coffee cup. It has a wonderfully assertive toffee-ish, caramel
flavor. It's not crystalline like turbinado sugar - it's more powdery/granu-
lated and the flavor is much stronger. Good stuff, and highly recommended in
coffee - you'll have to wait until I brew my Triple to get a report on that.
- --
Dan Hall Digital Equipment Corporation MKO1-2/H10 Merrimack, NH 03054
hall@buffa.enet.dec.com ....!decwrl!buffa.dec.com!hall
"Adhere to Schweinheitsgebot
Don't put anything in your beer that a pig wouldn't eat" --David Geary
"Pigs would eat Sucanat" --me
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 9:53:47 CST
From: Brewmeister Gene <ezimmerm@hp.uwsuper.edu>
Subject: Water filter questions...
Salutations all!
I have decided to filter the water I use for brewing in my apartment.
Because it is an apartment and my wife and I will be moving in the summer,
I didn't install it to the water lines, instead fitting a temporary attachment
to the faucet. I've heard of others using such a temporary filter system and
was wondering if anyone had suggestions as how to store the wet filter once
I am finished with it? I am thinking of just letting the thing sit out 'till
dry then putting it away. Perhaps in the freezer. Sounds wierd, I know, but
since I want to filter out Cl, I thought it would be rather stupid to store it
in some kind of solution. I should mention this is a charcoal and poly filter.
(Water Pic's Under sink IF-10 model to be exact.) The freezer, I'm thinking,
would inhibit growth of anything, and if I were to get most of the water out,
there shouldn't be any problem with cracks from ice pressure... Well any ideas
would be helpful.
Gene in Duluth
*******************************************************************************
* Eugene Zimmerman * 'Real men don't eat quiche' *
* University of * 'Wisdom is but the loss of innoscence valued' *
* Wisconson, Superior * *
* English Ed and Comp Sci * *
* Majors * *
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 93 00:58:15 -0500
From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: First and second runnings
Back in December, I posted a speculative article about brewing
in the traditional British "three runnings" method. To summarize,
using information from Dave Line's _Big_Book_of_Brewing_ and a
little algebra, it appeared that one could make:
Strong ale @ 1072
Pale Ale @ 1046
Shandy @ 1043
by using, per US gallon of final yield for each of the three, 5 pounds
UK 2-row malt and 2.2 US gallons of mash water.
As a variant, I scaled the recipe up to 2 gallons and collected and
brewed the first runnings according to the posted recipe. I decided
to sparge afterwards and collect what amounted to the second and third
runnings together. Given the desirability of a 5-gallon batch size, I
figured I'd add a little water and malt extract to the kettle to stretch
the brew length up to 5 gallons. (No all-malt fixation here :-)
Summary: overall success!! As I suspected, I got more yield in the
first runnings than predicted from Line's figures. And that was despite
cutting the mash water down to 2 gallons. I compensated by adding a
little more than a pound of dry malt extract. Here are the details:
Strong Ale
----------
10 lb Munton & Fison 2-row mild ale malt
1 1/2 oz Willamette whole hops 60 minute boil - 4.2% alpha acid
1/4 oz Willamette whole hops 30 minute boil - 4.2% alpha acid
1/4 oz Willamette whole hops 10 minute boil - 4.2% alpha acid
Wyeast 1056, second generation, half of a one-quart starter
Mash with 2.5 gallons water at 151-154F. Mash-out at 172F.
Transfer to lauter tun with 1.5 gallons foundation water at 172F.
Recirculate, let settle 30 minutes. Draw off first runnings
(a little more than 2.5 gallons).
Yield: 9 quarts. Original gravity: 1080
Estimated bitterness: 48 IBU
Primary ferment: 7 days. Rack to two one-gallon jars.
Specific gravity at racking: 1025.
This beer was racked on February 11 and hasn't been bottled yet.
Celtic Ale
----------
Spent grains from strong ale
5 oz Chocolate malt
19 oz Light dry malt extract
1 oz Bullion pellets 60 minute boil - unknown alpha acid
1/2 oz Willamette whole hops 10 minute boil - 4.2% alpha acid
1/2 t. Irish moss 10 minute boil
Wyeast 1056, second generation, half of a one-quart starter
Steep chocolate malt in 1 pint water. Add to mash tun after
draining first runnings for the strong ale. Add 2.5 gallons water
at 172F to mash tun and let settle 15 minutes. Sparge as usual
with water at 172F to collect 4.5 gallons. Add dry malt extract
and sufficient water to boiling kettle.
Yield: 5 gallons. Original gravity: 1035.
Estimated bitterness: 24-37 IBU (based on bullion @ 5-8% alpha acid;
Line estimates 4-9%, Papazian 8-9%).
Single-stage fermentation: 9 days.
Bottled with 5/8 cup corn sugar. Final gravity: 1011.
If I do say so myself, this is a _great_ low alcohol beer.
It was ready to drink after about 5 days. It's 4 weeks in
the bottle today and there's hardly any left :-)
Fred eckhardt, in The Essentials of Beer Style, lists Grant's
Celtic Ale at ----------------------------
OG 1034, FG 1008, IBU 38.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 93 21:04:18 -0500
From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton@mtl.mit.edu>
Subject: Where Did My Saaz Nose Go ?
When I bottled this batch of Alt Bier last week, it had a wonderful
Saaz nose to it, from dryhopping in the secondary. Now, a week later,
it's carbonated, ready to drink, and has no Saaz aroma at all...
Where did it disappear to ?
Other than the loss of nose, it's quite good! Tasty and bitter.
Partial Mash Recipe
===================
2.0 lbs Klages 2 Row,
0.75 lb Crystal, 40 Deg. L
0.5 oz Chocolate Malt
4 quarts water
30 min 122F Protein Rest, 1 Hr. 152 F Starch Conversion,
5 min 168 F mash out. Sparge with ~ 2 gallons 170F
Then add 5.375 lbs Telfords light english extract, total volume
of boil, 5 gallons.
1 oz. galena (12%), 0.5 oz Nothern Brewer (7.1%) 60 min
0.5 oz saaz (3.8%) 30 min
Boil 1 hr, chill with wort chiller to 60F
Repitch with Wyeast 1056 from seondary of an Irish Ale. (Bottled previous day)
OG=1.042
After 13 days, Dryhopped with 0.5 oz Saaz (3.8%) for 8 Days more.
FG = 1.012
Wonderful Saaz aroma at bottling (3/4 cup corn sugar used)
So where did it go ?
Tim
- ----
Timothy J. Dalton tjdalton@mit.edu
MIT, Dept. of Chemical Engineering, Materials Etching Technology Lab
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 13:39:29 +0200
From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject: BrewPubs in Europe
My brewing partner is going for a three-week tour to Europe. Does anyone here
know of any interesting brewpubs or homebrewer's attractions along the
following route: Amsterdam - Koln - Prague - Budapesht - Viena - Munich. ???
In the event he would like to buy brewing supplies to bring home with him, do
you know of a place where he could get them, in one of the towns he'll be
visiting?
Thanks in advance,
Nir
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 13:32 PST
From: SOMAK%FITKJES2.BITNET@SEARN.SUNET.SE
Subject: Metallic taste, old hops
I cultured yeast from the bottle of Chimay White. Now it
has been one week in the bottles and I wonder the strong
metallic taste it has. I remember somebody remarked the
same thing in HBD sometimes ago. Is it peculiar for the
Chimay yeast to produce metallic tastes, or is there something
wrong in my procedures? It was fermented in glass carboy and
temperature was about 22 Celsius. Fermentation was single
stage and it lasted two weeks.
I have also another question concerning old hops. I have
Saaz hops which a friend of mine brought one and half year
ago from Germany. They are stored in room temperature. At
first there were no problems with them, but later I noticed
that beer brewed with them was cloudy, not clear. Could the
old hops have caused this? I think I have read somewhere
(HBD?) that there can be problems with old hops.
Markku Koivula
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 07:21 CST
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Extract Efficency
We have pretty well beaten to death the topic of extract efficency but I
don't think we have discussed the most obvious way to determine what is going
on in our beer.
We all know how to divide gallons by pounds and multiply by gravity to come
up with points/pound/gallon. Some even apply this to some arbitray numbers
of available starch and arrive at a percentage efficiency.
Well, the other way to do it is to weigh the grain before mashing (easy and
routine) and then compare this with the weight of the spent grain after
mashing and drying (not so easy). If dried to the same moisture content as
the original grain, we arrive at an absolute figure for conversion of grain
to beer stuff.
This past weekend I made a batch with 10 lbs of malt and ended up with 8
gallons at 1.040 for a calculated extraction of 32pts/gal/lb.
After drying the spent grain and allowing for trub solids and a small amount
lost in the drying process, it weighed 2.7 lbs. This means that 73% of the
malt ended up in my beer. This is exactly the figure reported by Noonan as
what can be expected from the types of malt I used.
I am not sure just what this proves other than the fact that the EASYMASH
process works as well as any other far more complicated methods of mashing
and sparging.
js
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 09:18:51 EST
From: fingerle@NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL (J. Fingerle)
Subject: publications from the AHA
Just received my first ever Zymurgy and the accompanying catalog
of stuff the AHA offers. And I have some questions.
1) Anyone have an opinion on "Winners Circle?" How many
recipes are in this? What is the ratio of extract to grain
recipes? Is it better/worse/same/just-different from Cat's Meow?
2)How about Terry Foster's "Pale Ale?" How many all-grain and
extract recipes? The description given says "Recipes and data
given in English and metric..." English as in American units,
or english as in imperial units?
3) They offer a Special Issue six pack which includes the
all-grain, troubleshooting, gadgets, yeast, hops, and beer styles
special issues, but does not include the malt extract issue.
Is that one worthwhile? Since some of these date back to the
mid 80's, and I keep hearing how things keep improving for the
homebrewer, are any of these out of date? Does anyone
feel that any of these could be skipped, or conversely, that
any of these are the best thing ever committed to paper?
Any opinions are welcome. Please use private email. Thanks!
- --
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
name: Jimmy On balance, it is a wonderful thing that
email: fingerle@NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL the cold war is over. -Bill Clinton
-or- fingerle@NADC.NAVY.MIL ON BALANCE?!? It's end has a down side?
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 10:07:08 EST
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
Subject: sparge manifolds
I use a 10-gal Gott cooler, with a "three-pipe" manifold of 3/8"OD
copper, slotted every .75 - 1 in. It's arranged as a circle with one
diameter. One end of the diameter connects to the spigot, the other
end has a "down pipe" that I use for underletting and suction
breaking. I have a ball valve on the outside that lets me easily
control flow rate.
I get great flow and decent extraction from this setup. This weekend,
I made a "wit" beer (thanks to Phillip Seitz for the recipe).
Depending on whether I counted the unmalted wheat, I got somewhere
between 28 and 31pts extract in a 45minute sparge (5lbs Belgian
Pilsener malt, 3 lbs M&F wheat malt, 1 lb soft wheat "berries"),
stopping at 1.010. The grain bed was about 6" deep (to the 3.5 gallon
mark in the cooler). I opened the valve so that I got between 2 and
3qts/5min flow. I recycled about a gallon. I had absolutely no
problem with sticking, despite the wheat (there was a layer of icky
gray-brown sludge on top of the grain bed when I drained the cooler).
I won't belabor the advantages of the slotted-pipe system, except to
note that I think the "downpipe" is a fantastic addition to the usual
setup. I find that underletting my infusions makes it a lot easier to
get a consistent temperature throughout the mash because you're
putting the hot stuff at the bottom, whence it will rise, instead of
on top, where it will just sit.
I'm happy with this system, that's for sure.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 10:11:20 -0500
From: esonn1@cc.swarthmore.edu
Subject: Oxygenated Water?
I live in an area where the tap water is cloudy when it first comes out of
the spigot, but if you let it sit a few minutes, it clears up. A friend of
mine told me the water is cloudy because they "oxygenate" it. I have never
heard of this before. Is my friend right or is he full of it? If he is
right, is it bad for brewing? I know I could boil the water if I am
worried about water quality, but as an extract brewer, I would rather not
spend the time boiling all that water. Thanks in advance.
Eugene Sonn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 09:23:37 CST
From: krueger@comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Wyeast Abuse !!
I hope noone takes action, but I may have been guilty of Wyeast abuse !!
I broke the seal on my Bavarian Lager package and let it bulge. Unfortunately,
my week didn't go as planned and the package had to bulge to full proportions.
I definitely expanded the package to maximum size! The week really fell apart
and the Wyeast package not only travelled several hundred miles, but also was
put through several temperature changes of more than 30-40 degrees. When I
finally had a chance to make my starter, I opened the package and it didn't
smell 'clean.' It seemed that there was some odor there that I didn't feel
comfortable with. I decided to make the starter anyway and the yeast developed
nicely in the starter, but I am very hesitant to use this yeast for brew. Does
anyone think my worries are valid or is yeast hardy enough to go through all my
abuse ??
Please don't take away my brew kit, I'll be better to my yeast next time !!
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 1993 10:36:31 -0500
From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott@draper.com>
Subject: ?SS Cleaning Agents?
?SS Cleaning Agents?
OK, now that were on to this cleaning agents thread I've got a question. I've
recently developed a problem with really stubborn scorches and stains on the
inside of my SS boiler.
The problem stems from the method I use to achieve a good stove top boil. I
straddle the pot over two gas burners and use some heavy duty aluminum foil to
direct the flames that poke out from under the pot up its sides es. Well this
works GREAT as far as getting a good boil goes.
The problem is that the top of the pot, above the level of the liquid, gets
very hot and any wort splashed on that part of the pot gets really burned on.
I can take off the crudge with a copper scrubber but some dark black stains
remain. Is sodium hydroxide an appropriate cleaning agent to use in this case,
i.e. will it remove the stains and is it safe for SS? If not are there other
alternatives?
Thanks,
_
Christopher K. McDermott Internet: mcdermott@draper.com
C.S. Draper Laboratory, Inc. Voice: (617) 258-2362
555 Technology Square FAX: (617) 258-1311
Cambridge, MA 02149 (USA)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 9:46:52 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: "German" porter
Russ Gelinas writes:
> Rob asked about "German" hops (Hallertauer/Mt.Hood) being used in a
> porter. Just so happens in my younger/dumber days (before I became an
> all-grain snob ;-), that I went even further, making an extract porter
> with Hallertauer hops *and* Wyeast German ale yeast, #1007 I think it is.
> Certainly not a "classic" porter, but perhaps the best extract brew I
> ever made: clean, creamy, malty, and a wonderful hop nose. Isn't it
> perhaps likely that in the early days of porter, continental hops were
> used?
I can't comment on the history of porter, but I can say that a porter
of mine that used Kent Goldings, Hallertauer, and Cascades (!!) just
won a 2nd place at the Fort Collins, CO Mashfest. My original recipe
uses Perle and Cascade, but I was out of Perle when I made this batch.
The Hallertau were used solely as bittering hops, so the English and
American hops dominated.
I think I'll switch back to Perle next time, but isn't being able to
tinker with elements like that part of the fun of homebrewing?
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji@hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 1993 08:55:41 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment@rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: More on copper slots
Subject: More on copper slots Time:8:30 AM Date:3/15/93
Brian Bliss says:
>I sparge in a 1' & 2.5' square cooler, with a grain bed depth anywhere
>from 7"-14". The pipe is only 5/16" id and 7" long, with slots every
>inch. The last time I tried keeping the H2O above the top of
>the grain was with ~20 lbs of grain => 10"-12" deep. I verified by
>tatse testing that different areas of the bed were better rinsed than
>others. I only got 20 pts/lb (this is based on the wort that actually >makes
it into the primary - If you count spillage & the gallon of trub
>that I leave behind you get significantly higher figures).
>What are the dimensions of your cooler? How deep is the grain bed?
>Is the pipe 1/2" inside diameter or outside? (that's a big pipe).
First, it is my understanding that in order to accurately compute yield you
MUST CONSIDER THE TOTAL VOLUME of wort, either pre or post boil (the yield will
not change since the concentration goes up as the volume decreases during
boil).
I mash in a 48 quart Igloo cooler with interior dimentions perhaps 12" wide by
24" long. My manifold is made of 1/2" ID copper pipe. The shape of the manifold
is the same as the bottom of the cooler with 2 additional lenghts of pipe
running in the long direction. That makes a rectangle with 4 long runs spaced
about 4" apart. The long pipes are joined at both ends with a network of tees
and elbows and 1'2" pipe. There is an exit tee in the middle of one of the end
assemblies which couples to a fitting which runs through the wall of the
cooler. All of the pieces of pipe (including those used in the end assemblies)
are slotted half way at 1/4" intervals. The tees and elbows are left intact.
The manifold is placed in the cooler with the slots facing down. The concept is
to create a flow similar to that of a false bottom so that the sparge can flow
through the bed to an "exit" at any point in the mass.
I have mashed as much as 35 lbs of grain in this set-up and as little as 15
lbs. My worst yield so far has been 26 points. I attribute it to a too fast
sparge (maybe 20 minutes).
RW...
Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment@radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 11:58:03 EST
From: bszymcz%ulysses@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: ~r beer-cancer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 12:00:25 EST
From: bszymcz%ulysses@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: re: beer, root beer and cancer
In HBD1095 John Sampson brought to our attention a very interesting
article appearing in Science, (vol. 258 pg 261) on natural vrs.
synthetic carcinogens. The fact that wine and beer were at the top
of the list alerted me to read the article myself.
In that article "Rodent Carcinogens: Setting Priorities", the authors
try to support their hypothesis that naturally occuring chemicals
have not been as rigorously tested as synthetic chemicals for
being potential carcinogens. This was done by using an index
(HEPR) measuring the percent of the equivalent (by weight)
amount of daily lifetime rat dosage required to halve cancer free
rats at the end of a standard lifetime. Some of the values are:
HEPR (%) HUMAN EXPOSURE (PER DAY) RAT CARCINOGEN
4.7 Wine (250ml) Ethanol (30 ml)
2.8 Beer (12 oz; 354 ml) Ethanol (18 ml)
0.3 Lettuce, 1/8 head (125 g) Caffeic acid (66.3 mg)
0.2 Real Root Beer (12 oz; 354 ml) Safrole (6.6 mg)
0.1 Apple, 1 whole (230 g) Caffeic acid (24.4 mg)
0.06 Diet Cola (12 oz; 354 ml) Saccharin (95 mg)
0.04 Coffee, 1 cup (from 4 g ) Caffeic acid (7.2 mg)
0.001 Tap Water, US avg (1 liter) Chloroform (83 ug)
0.00003 Approximate HEPR of upper-bound risk estimate used by US
regulatory agencies to control exposure to man-made
chemicals.
0.000000006 Captan (synthetic pesticide), Captan (11.5 ng)
US daily avg residue intake
g = gram, m = milli-, u = micro-, n = nano-, l = liter
One of the conclusions of this paper is:
"Our results indicate that many ordinary foods would not pass
the regulatory criteria used for synthetic chemicals."
They also point out that items which are high on the list may
not actually be a risk for human cancer even though they are
thousands of times the HERP equivalent to the one-in-a-million
worst-case risk used by the EPA.
One conclusion John made was
>Thus, all it seems you can say is that drinking one bottle of real root
>beer entails about the same risk of cancer as eating two fresh,
>unsprayed, organically-grown apples.
Due to the non-linear and sometime non-monotonic effects I think all
you can say is: if we have similar metabolisms as rats then
drinking 500 root beers a day entails the same risk as eating 1000
apples a day. Non monotonic effects occur in fruits and
vegetables, which actually reduce your risk of cancer (when
taken in moderation) due to the presence of anticarcinogenic
antioxidants and vitimins.
Fortunately for us, (and the reason
I'm posting this article to HBD) is that these non-monotonic
effects also occur to some degree with beer (alcohol).
According to studies based on the drinking habits of over 275,000
middle aged men drinking one beer a day actually reduced their
risk of cancer by about 10%. Details of these studies can be
found in "Alcohol and Heart Disease", in Nutrition Action
Health Letter, Vol 19, Nov. 1992, published by the Center for
Science in the Public Interest (Someone in the HBD forum gave
a nice summary of this article a few months ago but I forgot
who it was). At two beers a day your cancer risk is back to
what it is with no alcohol, but your risk of heart disease
remains lowered by about 20%. According to the HERP table
if you drink 36 bottles of beer a day and have a rat's metabolism
you have a better than even chance of developing cancer at some
time in your life. However, as long as we drink in moderation
we can follow our first commandment of "Relax, Have a Homebrew"
without worry of cancer. (Of course if you drink 36 bottles
of beer a day you probably won't worry too much either!)
As far as root beer goes, I personally wouldn't worry about
having one made with real sassafras, but I am unaware of both
any benificial effects from moderate studies, nor of other
studies that (I should hope) have been done on other aspects
of safrole toxicology which put it on the EPA hit list in the
first place.
Bill Szymczak
Gaithersburg, MD
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 09:58:06 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Overkill with TSP; Er, I forget...
> From: sagard@digi.lonestar.org (Steve Agard)
> Subject: Re: Cleaning Bucket/Cleaning Bottles
>
>
> A: I would suggest using TSP. I am thankful that it had been
> recommended by many of the homebrew experts on the net for
> removing labels.
>
> I added 1 lb TSP (from hardware and paintstores), and
> 1 1/2 cups chlorine, to a trashcan with the beer bottles
> (which had been filled with just enough warm water to cover
> all the bottles).
>
> I let this covered for 2 weeks, and then removed the bottles
> (while wearing rubber gloves - chemical resistant ones from
> a hardware store)
>
Steve, this is a classic case of overkill. From my own experience with
TSP, you could have gotten away with a few tablespoons added to the
water (without the Chlorine, especially since you're going to sanitize
the bottles later anyway) and pulled the bottles out (without gloves)
within a couple of days -- and gotten the same results. Not that what
you did was _wrong_, just that you could have save yourself money,
trouble and time.
> of warm water & let sit for 2 hours (probably overkill, but
> someone at a homebrew shop warned not to get any in the
> bottle or I'd never get a beer head). I then ran the bottles
> through the dishwasher twice (I usually the dishwasher to
> sanitize the bottles, but I don't like to ignore advice
> from those of you with more experience...).
As you suggest -- overkill. Rinsing the bottles thoroughly under the
tap (or with a jet bottle washer, better yet) for a few minutes is
plenty -- the hombrew shop was Wrong. TSP washes out thoroughly and
easily (especially if you hold your concentrations now a bit from the 1#
level) and shouldn't have any effect on your beer's head. Forget the
bath, forget the dishwasher, rinse them thoroughly and sanitize them in
the oven (350 for 90 min.).
I would like to second Bruce Ray's query about the use of aluminum in
brewing kettles. The only truly "authoritative" voice I've heard on the
subject is Dr. Michael Lewis, at the UC Davis' brewing program. Lewis
says the only thing wrong with aluminum is that it's a crummy metal-- in
other words that it dents easily and is not as strong as stainless steel
(or as beautiful as copper). A year or more ago there was a raging
argument here about Alzheimer's Disease, with the more reliable voice
being someone (Russ?) who worked in a University hospital where the
conclusion was that there was no link.
I have recently mashed a couple of batches in an aluminum kettle with
good results (although I forget what they were...) -- there is
definitely NO tinny flavor, which is one of the claims made against
aluminum.
How about some real data?
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 12:02 CST
From: arf@genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Manifold, Draino
>From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
>Subject: Re: slotted copperpipe manifold
>At the risk of sounding snobbish :-), if you're going to outfit your
cooler this way, you'll already have most of the equipment you'll need
to go all-grain. A large kettle for boiling is the only other thing
you'll need, and
At the risk of sounding commercial, if one has a large kettle and an
easymasher (note lower case, indicating that one purchases the stuff to build
it at the hardware store for about $10) installed in it, one does not need
the cooler or the manifold.
>From: woessner@psych.purdue.edu (Leo Woessner)
>Subject: lautering
>I finnally tried my first all grain batch.
HURRAY! Another snob is born.
> 1) What does a good crush look like?
Less than 10% flour... Defined as that which passes through a 100 mesh screen
and lots of husks intact or minimally broken. The major source of problems
is with grinders that pulverize the husks.
> 2) How to achive a good crush using a Corona?
To be technical, one does not crush with a Corona, one grinds. Having said
that, they can be adjusted to minimize the amount of husk ground up but the
price one pays is a course grind on the malt. For repeatable results, use a
set of gages or shims about .050" in thickness, inserted between the plates
on opposite sides. Adjust the wingnut tension so that they can just be
slipped out. Ignore all other advice suggesting that washers or shims be
placed between the main frame and the adjustment frame, they do nothing but
move the point at which the "proper" setting is achieved.
> 3) How clear is clear when lautering?
Just about as clear as the beer you are hoping to drink.
> 4) How long to recirculate using a Zapat tun.
Until it runs clear. When you get around to building an easymasher, it will
take about one cup, sometimes two.
>From: korz@iepubj.att.com
>I've heard that Draino has other stuff in it besides Sodium Hydroxide or
Potassium Hydroxide. I've heard that Red Devil brand Lye is all NaOH or
KOH (I don't recall which). Check the label and use the pure stuff.
Good advice. I was only making a point of reference. I use only lye. BTW,
I got so excited about the stuff that I tried a number of things over the
weekend.
I was cleaning a keg that had some sediment that did not want to squirt off
so I poured a little lie in it and it washed right off after less than a
minute of contact.
While cleaning up the mash tun to prepare it for fermenting I decided to
attack some long ignored scorches with the lye and it worked like magic.
I filled my cruddy looking coffee pot with a strong solution and after about
an hour and a rinse, it literally sparkles.
>A minor infection in a kegged beer would not be apparent, whereas the same
level of infection in a bottled beer would cause gushing. It also depends on
how long you keep the beer.
I have developed the habit of bottling a sixer of each batch I make just to
check on shelf life. Although there has been no infection thus far, we have
noted a significant drop in the flavor quality of the beer. We opened a four
month old bottle last week and both agreed it "tastes like extract beer".
That is not snobbery, just part of our lingo here, reminiscent of the bad old
days. Most of them also seem to lack much ability to retain a head and
seemed lacking in carbonation. This is all beer bottled since I started c/p
bottling. Beer drunk within a few weeks of bottling is as good as draft but
it seems to lose a lot over time.
The good news is I have to dicipline myself to save it that long and the bad
news is if you want it to keep forever, you will have to make BUD.
js
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 15:07 EST
From: Carlo Fusco <G1400023@NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: My Lauter Tun
Hello Fellow Brewers,
I would like to share an invention of mine with you. I was having trouble
with a the double bucket later tun so I made a new one. I took a 7 gallon
pail and used a knife to cut a 1/2 inch hole near the bottom. I then went
to the hardware store and bought a brass spigot for an outdoor faucet, some
steel 3/4 inch threaded washers [the kind used by electricians to attach
things to the outlet box], 2 inches of copper pipe, a clamp, and a 6X6 inch
sheet of galvenized door screening.
I put the thing together by first putting a washer onto the spigot. Then I
screwed the spigot into the bucket, after heating the hole with hot water.
I then screwed the second washer into place and tightened the whole thing
so that the spigot did not twist. I then rolled the screening to give me a
diameter of 1/2 inch and I used a clamp to attach it to the 2 inch piece of
pipe. Using a hammer, I folded over the edges and banged them flat to produce
a seam...but keep the 1/2 inch diameter inside the rolled up screening. The
1/2 inch pipe fits perfectly into the back of the spigot and can be easily
removed for cleaning.
I also attached a 3 inch piece of garden hose to the outflow side of the
spigot and fitted into it a 4 foot section of 1/4 inch clear tubing. This
tubing goes right into the boiling pot to reduce HSA.
Now I have a later tun that is easier to control the outflow and really easy
to use. I am now considering using this as a mash/lauter tun, much like the
cooler method. But first I have to learn to do that type of mashing. Right
now I still only use this as a lauter tun and a hopback to remove hop leaves
from the cool boiled wort.
| XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
| | |
X|X | |
__ X|X | |
_______________________|__|___ |\/\X|X\/\____________| |_
/ _|__|________| X|X \
/ | | | X|X \
_____/ screening | | pipe | X|X spigot \
h s \ | | | X|X \
a e \ _|__|________| X|X \
m a \_______________________|__|___ | X|X __________ \
m m |__| |/\/X|X/\/ | |
e clamp X|X | |
r washers X|X | |
e | > <
d ___________________________| > <
bucket wall >__________<
I hope this ascii drawing shows what I was trying to explain.
I remember a post some time ago showing the pro's and con's of the different
lautering methods. For this single point drain, it stated that the grain near
the edges did not get sparged. I have found this not to be true. I tasted the
grain from the edges and it was not any sweeter than the grain found at the
top of the grain bed, but this may only be true for me and I know some others
will disagree with me. But, I am very happy with this setup and I also
managed to get 32 pts/lb/gal using this method, compared to 26 pts/lb/gal
using the double bucket technique.
Carlo Fusco email: g1400023@nickel.laurentian.ca
Dept. Biology
Laurentian Univ.
Sudbury, Ontario
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 12:12:35 PST
From: bwalker@instruct.CapCollege.BC.CA (Bob Walker 2152)
Subject: Add to homebrew
Please add : bwalker@instruct.CapCollege.bc.ca (Bob Walker) to
the homebrew list. Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 12:53:33 -0800
From: atl@kpc.com
Subject: Reduction of Wort volume during boiling
After sparging, I usually end up with 6-8 gallons of sweet wort. I
usually boil for 90 minutes total, 30 minutes before hop addition, 45
minutes for boiling hops and 15 minutes for flavor hops. I also do
not cover the pot, as I find it impossible to keep a vigorous boil
going without boilover if the pot is covered. After this, I usually
end up with about 4 gallons of bitter wort, and must top up with
filtered cold tap water. I do not see any dramatic hot or cold break,
and end up with about 1" of precipitated goop (tm) in the bottom of
the primary fermenter. Am I boiling to vigorously? Should I put the
lid on the boiling pot? I would really rather not have to top up the
fermenter.
Drew
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1098, 03/16/93
*************************************
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