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HOMEBREW Digest #1072
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/02/08 13:23:41
HOMEBREW Digest #1072 Mon 08 February 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: IBU table (Bill Szymczak)
Ale ageing question. (Gerald_Wirtz)
Irish Ale, lager pitching, dryer gas stove (Ulick Stafford)
Diastatic Malt Powder (Jim Grady)
p.s. on King Arthur Flour (Jim Grady)
krausen,iodophor,lagers & snobs (Jim Busch)
Special Archive Proposal ( Neil Mager )
natural cooker, wine from c ("Daniel F McConnell")
Extract brewers are lazy? (gkushmer)
Beginner wants to make SMALL batch... (davidr)
re: idophor, rinse/reuse (R.) Cavasin" <cav@bnr.ca>
Yeast freezing with glycerol (Donald_James)
Re: FAQ/RFC on Recirculation (Chris McDermott)
Brewing a Weizenbock -- Need Ideas (Kevin Krelwitz)
cold break in or out....second try (Joe Boardman)
All-graiWorld's Worst All-Grain Snobs (Tim Anderson)
Sanitizing Copper; All-Grain Snobbery (DLAMARPL)
All grain snobs (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
Smooth Hop Utilization Function (Alan Edwards)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 07:48:29 EST
From: bszymcz%ulysses@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: IBU table
In HBD1070 Brian Bliss first quotes me:
>>In HBD1066 I submitted an HBU-IBU conversion table
>>but forgot to mention any volume relationships.
>>That table assumes a 5 gallon batch.
>>To adjust for a volume of X gallons simply multiply the
>>numbers in the table by 5/X.
and responded
>Well thanks, now that I just wasted 35 oz of hops in
>my latest barleywine :-)
>AA units = oz hops * %AA and HBU = AA units / gal. wort (right?)
>so that was really a AAU to IBU table, or do I have them backwards?
>I also noticed that the rows for 55 and 60 minute boiling times
>were identical. Was this a typo?
Well, after Brian's note I wasn't sure myself so I looked up
AAU's and HBU's in Papazian (TCJoHB), Miller (TCHoHB) and
the Zymurgy Hops special edition V 13 No. 4. I don't have
Papazian's new edition and his old one mentions alpha units
but does not mention either HBU or AAU. Miller only defines
AAU = oz hops * %AA as Brian stated above.
I found HBU mentioned twice in the Zymurgy issue. The first mention
was at the bottom of page 44 on the AHA Guide to Hop-Flavored
Mald Extract page where they say
"The expression "HBU" refers to homebrew bittering units.
HBU equals the number of ounces of hops multiplied by the
percent of alpha acids in the hops."
Also, in Jackie Rager's article he writes
"If I understand what I've read, AAU and HBU are calculated by
multiplying the weight of hops (in ounces) by their alpha acid".
So I think HBU and AAU are the same thing, at least I assumed they
were based on my readings. However, I think Brian's definitions
make more sense - Why define two different terms to mean the
same thing with neither depending on the volume?
The lines for 55 and 60 minutes of boil are identical because
according to the utilization table I used (from Rager's article)
the utilization of 30% for a boiling time between 51 and 60 minutes.
Actually, my table should have listed boiling times as intervals
<5 min, 6-10 min, 11-15 min, etc. instead of 5, 10, 15 which I
listed for simplicity.
I think you've also invented a new beer style-barhopwine.
Bill Szymczak
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 7:56 EST
From: Gerald_Wirtz@vos.stratus.com
Subject: Ale ageing question.
It's cold up here in New England and I was wondering just what
affects temperature have on ageing ales? My beer is aged in a room
that the average temperature is around 55-60F. It's tasting Ok but
the carbonation in slow to build up even after 30 days.
If I were to store the beer in a warmer location (after being cool)
would the carbonation increase? Or has the cooler temperatures somehow
killed the yeast?
Thanks - In Advance - For any replies
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 08:38:46 EST
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick@bernini.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: Irish Ale, lager pitching, dryer gas stove
Guy McConnell reproduces a blurb from Coor's about Killian's Red.
Much of it is true other than the fact that it paints Old Adolphus
and family as being something other than Ogres. Ireland has had
its own ogre family dominating the brewing industry (now a largely
English owned company that also produces whisk(e)y in Scotland)
and throughout history has gobbled up all competition it could,
blackmailed Pubs to keep Harp taps when they wouldn't have been
able to give the piss away, and now that they do replacement
lagers under licence (having stolen the Carlberg franchise from
Beamish after they spent years building it up) are forcing
pubs to retain Smithwick's taps (Smithwick's is an Irish Ale, but
a pretty poor one) whose sales are slumping. Blackmail is easy.
Guinness do their own distributing and own all their own taps.
So they will offer to remove all their taps or none, including
the Guinness stout tap. This beer represent about 1/2 of all
beer sold in Ireland.
A small brewery called Dempseys who produced an ale set up a few years ago in
Dublin and didn't last long. Killians decided to close down in 1955
rather than sell their property including name to the big G.
Now they licence their name to Coors and Penforce (sp) in France.
The latter is supposed to be good. Hell, they get money for
nothing.
James dipalma discusses lager pitching rates. I always pitch
much yeast, like the entire primary sediment at 40F. recently I
pitched a batch at 40F with my cleaned sediment, racked off all
trub including dead yeast, and I guess much of my live yeast
and waited 5 days at 48-49 for Krausen. Disconcerting to some, but
recently when I tasted the Vienna I was making it is was exceeptionally
clean and good tasting for a beer in primary. Relax, don't worry,
pitch much sediment cold and wait. Remember yeast do much better at
cold temperatures than bacteria, and I would much prefer to slowly
build up a heawlthy yeast stock than rush things for the sake of
less worry.
Todd Williams considers using a cajun cooker indoors. Best of luck!
I believe the modification for propane to methane is simply replacing
the flow nozzle with a narrower one, but getting the part other than
from junk would not be easy because nobody will sell it to you, justifyably
so, IMHO, for liability reasons. Also I would not recommend it. Cajun
cookers have a 200,000 btu/h output, don't they, which is much too
much for indoor use. What I use is the burner from an old water heater
I picked up in a junk pile. Just remove the regulator and burner,
connect it with the necessary valves and nipples to your dryer output,
and get a stand for your pot that will nestle the burner nicely. I use
an old table stand. This is then a 25,000 btu/h burner designed for
indoor methane use with no problem. It even has a pilot light that will
go out if the flame fails. 25,000 btu output is fine. I would
boil 7 gallons from cold in about 15 minutes.
Ulick Stafford
s
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 9:12:45 EST
From: Jim Grady <jimg@hpwarga.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Diastatic Malt Powder
I don't know if this is helpful or not but I thought I would pass it on.
We received a catalog from "King Arthur Flour" in the mail yesterday and
on the back cover they are selling "Diastatic Malt Powder" for $3.95/lb.
They're selling it for baking bread but I was wondering if anyone had
any thought about using it for brewing. As far as I know, Edme is the only
supplier of diastatic malt for brewing and that in 4# cans, minimum.
- --
Jim Grady |"Talent imitates, genius steals."
Internet: jimg@wal.hp.com |
Phone: (617) 290-3409 | T. S. Eliot
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 9:18:48 EST
From: Jim Grady <jimg@hpwarga.wal.hp.com>
Subject: p.s. on King Arthur Flour
P.S. I forgot to include the phone number of "King Arthur Flour" in case
anyone wanted to try it or if there are any bakers out there (yeast
slurries can be reused for bread too!)
The King Arthur Flour Baker's Catalogue
P.O. Box 876
Norwich, VT 05055
Phone: 1.800.827.6836
FAX: 1.802.649.5359
P.P.S. They have the Marcato Grain Mill for $89.00 for those of you who
have been looking for one. I'm still happy with extract brewing so I
have not tried any mills. Someday...
- --
Jim Grady |"Talent imitates, genius steals."
Internet: jimg@wal.hp.com |
Phone: (617) 290-3409 | T. S. Eliot
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 10:18:29 EST
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: krausen,iodophor,lagers & snobs
From: Jim Busch
Some comments regarding recent digests:
<From: MARK TARATOOT <SLNDW@CC.USU.EDU>
<Subject: more lager questions
<Concernig pitching extra yeast at bottling. What if I just "grab up"
<some of the yeast sitting on the bottom of my fermenter? What are the
<chances that these yeasts are mutated and what will that do to the
<final product? This particular batch is in a tertiary fermenter (racked
<from secondary to get WAY away from yeast/other stuff that floculated out)
<so all the "stuff" should be yeast. This yeast will be mostly dormant,
<to be sure, but shouldn't it just hop back to life if more fermentables
<are added?
While it is true that the dormant cells could be revived, I have to wonder
the rational in carrying over these cells into the bottling process. THese
cells are certainly not as healthy as freshly grown ones. The question to
ask yourself is: are there enough residual cells in the beer to wake up
after priming? Has the beer been lagered to the point of doubt about the
viability of the dormant cells? I would recommend the traditional german
technique of adding krausen beer and/or young yeast slurry. Yeasts at
this young stage of growth will have higher glycogen levels and will be
more able to ferment the remaining sugars without worries about mutations.
If there are enough cells already, the yeast will merely die off as soon
as the fermentables are gone.
<From: billm@scorpio.sps.mot.com (Bill Moyer)
<Subject: idophor, rinse/reuse
<I've just recently tried using idophor instead of a bleach
<solution for sanitizing ( .5oz idophor/gallon water, ~12.5ppm
<free iodine) and have 2 questions.
I believe Bill meant to state 1oz per 10 gallons!!! At this level,
I never rinse, I just pour off the fluid in whatever I am sanitizing.
That said, I DO rinse when I am kegging. A brief hot water rinse
of the iodophor prior to kegging does the trick. So far, no problems.
I believe if the ferment is clean, it is fairly difficult to infect the
beer at packaging time.
<From: dipalma@banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
<Subject: RE: lager questions, recirculation
<My understanding is that Paulaner uses a non-flocculating lager yeast
<to bottle condition the hefe-weizen, it's not the same yeast used to
<ferment the beer. I'm fairly certain a top fermenting strain is used for
<that purpose.
Yes, it is lager strain in the bottle. But I do believe it is a flocculant
one, that is one of the reasons lager yeast is used. If you want a Hefe-
weizen poured clear, the lager yeast will tend to cling to the bottom of teh
bottle. Even if you pour it "correctly" the yeast tends to floc in the
bottom of your glass. The top fermenting strain is filtered out prior to
addition of the krausen beer.
James goes on to comment on pitching temps of lager yeasts. The important
thing to remember is that once fermentation is active, the temperature will
rise significantly. Thus, if one pitches at 60F, the yeast could kick in
and boost the temp up to 70F! Obviously, one of the tricks is to get it in
the fridge at the right time, so the temp is dropping as the yeast temp is
pushing it up. You really want to be below 52F during primary fermentation,
so it is important to be careful about when you pitch and when you put it
in the fridge. Pitch at 55-60F with LOTS of healthy yeast, move it to the
fridge and begin lowering the temp. It will take a 10 hours or so for the
fridge to cool the wort below 50F, and if you have enough yeast, activity
should have commenced.
RE: All grain snobs:
Very excellent beers are produced using extracts. The key is the quality
of the extract (I believe dry IS better) and the yeast & hops. That said,
while I will not claim to call it "cake mix" I do often refer to extract
brewing as "home fermentation". Dont take offense at this, the more you
know about brewing, the more you realize that fermentation is the most
important part of the process. After a few hundred batches, the quality
of the wort is pretty consistent, but the challenge of the fermentation
remains :-).
Jim Busch
PS: to JS- My lauter tun/open fermenter does indeed have a spigot. The
only problem with taking ferment SG readings is that what comes out is
yeast sludge! Thats what you get when you have a bottom grant. Maybe
when I have a Unitank made, I will add the side outlet, about a foot up
from the cone. Of course, it is quite simple to open the lid and scoop
out a sample.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 10:18:30 EST
From: neilm@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Neil Mager )
Subject: Special Archive Proposal
A few months ago, I started seriously considering taking the step
from extract to all-grain brewing. I downloaded the indices of the
archives from the last ~15 months to find information about
all-grain brewing and cooler mash-tun/lauter-tun
construction. After several pleasant evenings sorting
through the archives of interest, I ended up with about 70
messages (~200k) of interest.
I'm sure I'm not the only one doing this. If we create a
few Special Archives, readers could download the special archive,
then ask specific questions later if the needed to. Sort
of like a very detailed FAQ. Since the archive contains
the reasonably complete thread, the reader would get
different opinions and options from which they could draw
their own conclusions (and confusion).
This could also help reduce the bandwidth on the daily hbd
since we wouldn't have to rehash how to build a cooler
mash-tun/lauter tun or how to culture yeast, or how to
brew a barley wine (I'm still sorting through that
thread - thanks!). And hopefully, these wouldn't overload
our current archive site since I don't foresee all that
many of these...but I could be wrong!
The Special Archive could be compiled by whomever has been
following a particular thread. Consider the Special Archive
the HBD version of a Zymurgy special issue.
Thats the proposal...
Neil (Still an extract brewer and proud of it!)
===============================================================================
Neil M. Mager
MIT Lincoln Laboratory Lexington, MA
Weather Radar - Group 43
Internet <neilm@juliet.ll.mit.edu>
Voice (617) 981-4803
===============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 5 Feb 1993 10:29:16 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell@med.umich.edu>
Subject: natural cooker, wine from c
Subject: Time:10:11 AM
OFFICE MEMO natural cooker, wine from conc. Date:2/5/93
todd@gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams)
>What I want to do is convert my cajun cooker from a propane
>unit into a natural gas unit. Can I do this?? If so, does anyone
>know what is involved? How much it might cost??.....
It couldn't be easier! Just remove the brass cap from the cooker and drill
the orifice to 1/8 for natural gas. Sounds like an great brewery in
progress. If you are indoors make sure that you are **extremely ** well
vented. This will cost some cash. (A bathroom fan/vent *won't * be sufficient
to provide air exchange and remove all of the steam). A couple of good fire
extinguishers would not be out of the question either.
>connell@vax.cord.edu
>I have the idea that people just dump concentrate and water in a carboy
>and add yeast. Is wine making discussed here so seldom because the
>process is uninterestingly straightforward or because the results are
>so inferior to commercial wines or both?
Ouch. This is a beer forum. I know that there are also cider and mead forums,
and assume that there is one for homevintners. In any case, the process that
you have described is a lot like the instant coffee analogy of Jack. IMHO you
need (good) grapes to make (good) wine.
DanMcC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 10:59:31 EST
From: gkushmer@Jade.Tufts.EDU
Subject: Extract brewers are lazy?
WARNING: this is long.
Once I saw this thread reappear, I knew it was only a matter of time before
Jack Schmidling would chime in with something like this:
> Subject: All-grain Snobs
[...]
> I can't speak for the "community" and you may be right but it is also worth
> while to put the issue into proper perspective.
>
>Keeping in mind that lots of people stick with extract because they are lazy,
>paranoid or il-informed and further keeping in mind that the industry, as
>opposed to the "community" has a vested interest in maintaining the status
>quo because it would just about dry up without extract sales, it is worth
>noting that some extract beers are excellent beers, so I am told. One also
>presumes that lots of extract brewers use extract because they know how to
>make said excellent beers.
>
> Having said that, I suggest it is the extract brewers' insecurity,
> sensitivity and paranoia that creates the image that all-grain brewers are
> snobs.
This 'perspective' smacks exactly of the 'snobishness' that we have seen
discussed here on the HBD. Lots of people extract brew because they are
lazy, paranoid, or 'il-informed'? That's rich coming from a semi-retired
homeowner. Why do I mention this? Because economic status is part of
my personal reason for not going all-grain.
Right now I am spending many thousands of dollars going to school nights
while I work during the day. Being older than me Jack, and having some
savings in the bank (plus whatever revenue you derive from selling tapes
of brewing and bats) you may have easily forgotten that some of us cannot
immediately afford the startup costs for all-grain.
If, for a minute, we consider extract brewing to be, from one possible
perspective, "training wheels" to the art of brewing, then it makes
sense that someone start off by extract brewing to learn the art before
moving on. But things happen - you buy the equipment and put in the time
to brew and, if you are like me, you spend some money here and there to
improve your beers and increase your equipment holdings.
Before you know it, you're looking at all-grain wondering when you can
afford the cajun cooker and the 7 gallon Vollrath plus all these other
goodies that make all-grain fly.
At this point you, Jack, would seem to argue that in the end you'll actually
save money from the all-grain process. Sure you might, I respond, but
this involves the concept of breaking even first. I cannot economically
justify making all the purchases right now when I have tuition, rent, car,
and cat food payments to make.
Oh, but am I really just scared, and not wanting to make the plunge? I
think not. I spend my brewing time trying to learn more about the process.
I try things that I haven't tried yet - simple things that you have to
try at some point like dry-hopping, wort-chilling, making yeast starters,
or going for full-gravity boils. I read HBD looking for new techniques, and
I talk with the more experienced brewers asking them what I can do to improve
my beers.
Ah, you say, but you aren't really doing anything but avoiding all-grain.
No. In the meantime I am investing piecemeal in the equipment I need to
start all-grain. I've got my pot, and I'm saving up to buy my cooker. Then
I will consider all the other goodies.
So far, then, I am neither lazy nor ill-informed. And I think that my
curiousity cancels out any notions of being paranoid.
Does this mean then, that you are still right and that I am really just
an exception - someone on his way to reaching full enlightenment in the
hallowed halls of all-grain brewers? No.
I happen to have a number of friends my age who have decided to take up
brewing too. Both of them are now extract brewers. One of them was on
his way to going all-grain until he suddenly found himself on academic
probation and out of a job. He cut back on his brewing activities for a
little while and certainly killed any notions of going all-grain.
The other friend found himself in the middle of layoffs back when DEC
decided they would give him the ultimate X-mas gift. For some reason his
priorities are not set on going all-grain anytime soon. Both of them
still feel, BTW, that they have more to learn and enjoy in extract brewing
anyway.
Quite frankly, I've never met anyone who avoids going all-grain because they
are lazy, paranoid, or 'il-informed'. Usually they avoid it for the cost,
time, and b/c they feel they have more to learn and enjoy from extract
brewing. (Note: using time as a factor does not automatically mean you
are lazy. Laziness doesn't apply when you have plenty else to do in your
life.)
With this rather long diatribe on your premise in mind, lets look
at your conclusion:
> Having said that, I suggest it is the extract brewers' insecurity,
> sensitivity and paranoia that creates the image that all-grain brewers are
> snobs.
Hmmmm. The only time I have ever heard extract brewers complain about
all-grain brewers' snobishness is really in this forum, the HBD. I've
never won over a scared extract brewer's confidence at a club meeting or
at the supply store b/c we held some heavy burden of shame due to the
all-grain brewing community's snobishness.
It seems to me that people are really complaining about people like you
Jack, who make unfounded general statements like:
>Keeping in mind that lots of people stick with extract because
>they are lazy, paranoid or il-informed. . .
These statements are so arrogant. You make it sound like a foregone
conclusion that this is the truth. You, a middle-aged man living in
Chicago who never talks about going to competitions or meeting up with fellow
brewers at club meetings yet who seems to have plenty to say on this
forum. Where does your experience base come from?
I've explained mine.
Finally (at last) I am not ignoring the rest of your post to HBD. I agree
that brewing extract is a part of the "overall experience" but I don't
agree with your premise which pretty much says that once you know extract
brewing, you should move on to something else.
You see, your approach concludes that since extract brewing is nothing
more than a reduced set of steps in a process, you are therefore not
a legitmate brewer. This is patently false: would you suggest that
C programmers are not "real" programmers and that only Assembly language
programmers do "real" programming since Assembly programmers don't need
reduced shortcuts like compilers? It makes about as much sense as you
do in approaching brewing - fewer steps = illegitmate worker.
I don't hold you to growing your own hops. That's not unreasonable since
many here have tried. By your reasoning, you are missing out on a step and
cannot be the authentic brewer you keep whining about being.
Your logic is poor; your reasoning arrogant. Give it a rest.
- --gk
Greg Kushmerek
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 93 08:13:40 PST
From: davidr@eecs.ee.pdx.edu
Subject: Beginner wants to make SMALL batch...
First of all, is there a FAQ available?
Secondly, I am a beginner who has been reading for approx. two
weeks now. I've never made homebrew. Hell, I hardly ever even
drink beer. However, I AM interested in the process, and do enjoy
a nice frosty one now and then. In the past, I have made some hard
cidar, and a batch of wine... both with natural yeasts. I used
a gallon jug with a piece of aquarium air tubing attached to the
top. I ran the other end of the tube into a glass of water, thus
establishing an air lock. Anyhow, I would like to try making some
brew, but on a much smaller scale than what I've seen. Can anybody
suggest *ANY* recipe to use for a One-Gallon batch?? (I'd like
to use the same fermenting apparatus I just described.) Also,
since I am a beginner, I have no idea as to the terminology.
I don't know what "secondary", "pitch", etc. means! I understand
"yeast" and "fermentation," and that is the limit to my technical
brewing dictionary. Eventually, I would like to read some of the
books described by others in HBD, but by the time I have more than
30 min. free time, I'll have obtained my MSEE. I'd like something
to just get me started without having to read a great deal.
SUGGESTIONS???
Thanks,
David Robinson
davidr@ee.pdx.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 11:02:00 +0000
From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav@bnr.ca>
Subject: re: idophor, rinse/reuse
Bill Moyer asks about iodophor rinse/reuse:
I tried out iodophor for the first time last weekend. How well does
it work - who knows? I found that the iodophor I purchased (brand
named 'iosan') tended to foam a fair bit when agitated. Hence,
bottles that were simply emptied tended to contain a fair bit of
foam. I was not prepared to leave this amount of residue unrinsed
(while the 12ppm concentration is considered safe when used on dairy
equipment without rinsing, I should think the volumes of milk that
would dilute the residue would be larger than the volumes of beer
going through my brewing equipment). My incentive for using an iodophor
was the hope that it could be reused more than bleach (iodine less
volatile than chlorine?) and hence less would go down the drain (and
into the air I'm breathing!).
It's also cheaper than the brewing sanitizers.
My jug of iosan states that the amber colour of the solution is a
self-indicator. The bulk of the solution I mixed up is in a stoppered
carboy and is still amber. I put about a pint in a blowoff bucket
for a batch of wine. After a few days, the amber colour has disappeared.
The iodine has either reacted with the plastic bucket/hose, organic
gases expelled from the fermentation (no actual krausen has come down
the tube), or simply evaporated (scrubbed by the constant stream of CO2
bubbles?). This would seem to verify the self-indicator feature.
The iodophor quickly stained my bottle/carboy brushes and hoses, but
has had minimal effect on my buckets. This doesn't worry me though.
Cheers,
Rick C.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:29 EST
From: Donald_James@vos.stratus.com
Subject: Yeast freezing with glycerol
Homebrew,
I would like to purchase some glycerol for freezing some yeast samples.
Could someone provide me with the address and telephone number of a company or
distributor.
Sincerely,
Don James
------------------------------
Date: 05 Feb 1993 11:28:53 -0500
From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott@draper.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ/RFC on Recirculation
RE>FAQ/RFC on Recirculation.
In an e-mail message, Spencer Thomas says:
>I like the idea. Now someone has to archive them specially?
Now thats a bit of a trick. I suppose that the latest version of each FAQ could
be maintained as a seperate file in the archives on sierra. Then all that
would have to be done would be to maintain FAQ# vs. subject index.
Might there be some concensus on this? How about other suggestions?
Volunteers? Would someone like to write a FAQ on writting FAQs?
Spencer also points out:
>An addition to your FAQ: There is evidence that suggests that
>recirculating for a long time can raise extraction rates. (Ref:
>Miller/hearsay (via Fix, I think), personal experience, Fix)
So:
**** HOMEBREW Digest FAQ #0001
FAQ# 001-002
Subj: Recirculation: What is it, and should I do it?
Date: February 4, 1993
Orig: Chris McDermott (mcdermott@draper.com)
Recirculation is a practice employed in the lautering of mashed grains where
the turbid sweet wort is collected, as it is runoff, and recirculated through
the grain bed until the runoff becomes clear.
Most sources of homebrewing information will tell you that you should employ
the practice of recirculation to avoid significant amounts of chaff in the
boil. Chaff in the boil is considered, by these sources, to lead undesirable
effects in the finished beer including astringancy and cloudiness. (Ref.
Miller, Papazian) Recirculation may also contribute to increased extract
efficiency.
However, others beleive that some amount of chaff in the boil is desireable in
that it helps to coagulate large protien molecules, producing a better
hot-break
and thus a clearer finished product. Futhermore, some think that the hot side
areation (HSA), or oxidation, of the sweet wort during recircluation may out
weight any benifit that may be gained by clearing the wort. (Ref. Fix)
****
_
Christopher K. McDermott Internet: mcdermott@draper.com
C.S. Draper Laboratory, Inc. Voice: (617) 258-2362
555 Technology Square FAX: (617) 258-1131
Cambridge, MA 02149 (USA)
------------------------------
Date: 05 Feb 1993 10:42 -0600 (CST)
From: Kevin Krelwitz <IA_KEVIN@vax1.iit.edu>
Subject: Brewing a Weizenbock -- Need Ideas
Hello Homebrewers!!
I have discovered a truly fantastic beer called "Erdinger Pikantus Weizenbock".
It is a Dark Weiss Bock beer with incredible body and a taste unlike any other
Weiss beer on the market. It is available locally in Chicago at the
Weinkeller, a microbrewery/bar/german restauraunt which serves 8 different
brews of their own along with 500 different beers from around the world.
>From reading other posts, I believe that I would be able to cultivate the yeast
from several bottles of Pikantus, but I need help in finding a mixture of malt
extracts which would yield the proper starting wort for this type of beer.
Also, I would appreciate any ideas on proper brewing technique (temperature,
specific gravity, fermentation time, etc..) for this type of beer.
The Wienkeller (plug) is located on Roosevelt Road, just east of Harlem Ave. in
Chicago (actually in Berwyn). I highly recommend this place to anyone who is
planning on making a visit to the area. In fact, drop me a line and I'll meet
you there!!
Thanks in advance,
*******************************************************************************
* Kevin Krelwitz * Why are we here? *
* ia_kevin@vax1.iit.edu * To Drink some beer! *
* Illinois Institute of Technology * Roll the Bones. *
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 09:45:01 MST
From: Joe Boardman <boardman@amber.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: cold break in or out....second try
****OOOPS**** Sorry about that "subject only" post yesterday.
Brevity is a commendable, but it was an accident. Here's the whole letter:
G'day HBD'ers,
After returning to Boulder from a 15 month stay in Australia,
I got reacquainted with my grain mill et al last weekend. I brewed up a 10
gal batch, everything went well. Then I ran it through my counter-flow chiller
and really ZAPPED it with Boulder's near-freezing tap water, causing a great
cold-break. I had a semi-slow moving 1056 Wyeast starter going so I pitched
the two carboys and went to bed. My wife just gave me a copy of Miller's
Complete Handbook, and he seems to go to great lengths to get the wort off
the trub, racking soon after pitching. I left the stuff in there and it
settled out and formed a semi-solid layer on the bottom, even the churning
ferment of the last few days has left it pretty much undististurbed EXCEPT
it seems to have all these little "worm-holes" in it. It's as if during the
active primary ferment some part of the trub has been used by the yeast.
What's the collective wisdom?
1)does leaving the cold-break in the primary (a feature of a counter-flow
chiller) harm the beer?
2)does it help the yeast, nutrients etc.?
3)is a beer-style thing (lagers no, ales yes)
4)can anybody tell the difference?
5)any ideas on what has been taken out of the trub to make the worm-holes?
Maybe next time I'll rack one carboy and not the other. But it was 9.5 hour
session as it was and I just couldn't make myself sanitize another carboy and
go through all the hassle. Or maybe I should just chill the hell out of it,
no problem to get it below 50F, and let it sit overnight before pitching.
All my instincts say "NO DON'T LEAVE YOUR WORT OVERNIGHT WITHOUT YEAST YOU
FOOL".
So......
Cheers,
Joe "Leave dead dogs alone"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 08:40:22 -0800
From: tima@wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson)
Subject: All-graiWorld's Worst All-Grain Snobs
I nominate "All-grain snobs" as the most insipid HBD thread of the year.
On the other hand, "The World's Worst Brewer" is delightful, and I have a
suggestion:
Tim's Bucket Conditioned Brew
Pour a 5 lb bag of cane sugar into a 5 gal plastic bucket with a spigot in the
side near the bottom. (Don't buy the bucket, just walk out the door of the
home-brew supply store with it under your arm. Say something about wanting to
see if it's the right size. Drive off with tires squeeling.) Add room
temperature tap water, stir. Pitch several packets of different kinds of
bread yeast. Stir again. Before putting on the lid, (Oh My God, did you
forget to steal the lid? Well then use plastic wrap.) put your face close to
the surface of the wort and softly whisper the word "hops". Wait a couple of
weeks. You now have beer for the rest of your life. Just pour from the spigot
directly into your glass. Or if you haven't gotten around to stealing any
glasses, directly into your mouth. Every now and then add some more sugar and
water. If it starts tasting sweet, add some more yeast. If anything fuzzy or
smelly starts growing on top, skim it off (you don't want to DRINK that shit!)
It's obvious to me that your method of brewing is only a step toward my method
of brewing. It couldn't possibly be the case that you actually enjoy doing it
your way. Therefore, I want everybody who reads the digest to start making
bucket conditioned beer immediately. And email me with all sorts gratuitous
testimonials, and grovelling for my approval. As long as there's any sort of
difference in the way we make beer, you won't get it, but it will do wonders
for my ego.
Ready, begin.
tim
"Just kidding. Use ale yeast."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:04:08 EST
From: DLAMARPL@ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Sanitizing Copper; All-Grain Snobbery
Several sources indicate the hazards of using alkaline solutions (e.g.
chlorine) to sanitize copper. None I have seen, however, suggest alternatives
other than boiling. What are effective sanitizing agents for equipment that
cannot be boiled (e.g. counterflow wort chillers)?
*****
In HBD 1071, Jack Schmidling implies that, in its "proper perspective,"
extract brewers' "image that all-grain brewers are snobs" is the result of the
neuroses of extract brewers themselves. As a former rhetorical critic, I feel
compelled to note the contradictions in Mr. Schmidling's statements.
In laying blame on extract brewers, Mr. Schmidling, an all-grain brewer,
describes them as "lazy, paranoid or ill-informed" and refers to their
"insecurity, sensitivity and paranoia." Such epithets appear to me to be "all-
grain snobbery" of the most inelegant sort. Although he is entitled to his
interpretation of the "proper perspective," his articulation of it lacks
internal validity. Mr. Schmidling's attempt to exonerate the more
"sophisticated" brewers instead indicates that some of the perceptual
inadequacies felt by extract brewers may, in part, be instilled and perpetuated
by *some* advanced brewers.
Any time we discuss advanced topics with those less informed, we must be
careful not to confuse or offend them, else we snuff out their desire to learn.
Without more empathy in our attempts to share our knowledge and experience with
beginners, we risk alienating potential new members of our hobby. As I used to
tell my students: "THINK about what you say; you never know when your words
will come back to haunt you."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 09:04:55 -0800
From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42@pollux.svale.hp.com
Subject: All grain snobs
After reading all the snob stories, I had to throw in my two bits.
I believe a big part of the snobbery is the snob appeal... "sure you can
make better beer if you're willing to take the BIG STEP and go all-grain".
It's the mystique of the BIG STEP that makes brewers fear taking it and
puffs up those that have. The fact is, the BIG STEP is NO BIG DEAL. My second
batch was all grain and yours can be too.
Read a book, use a washed out cooler as a mash tun, make and use a $5 sparge
system (window screen on the end of a siphon tube (EASYSpihonPipe tm), and use
as many pots as necessary to boil the wort.
It's just not difficult enough to make those that do it into snobs. And it's
more fun too.
Mike Schrempp
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 09:19:49 PST
From: rush@xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: Smooth Hop Utilization Function
Hi fellow beermakers:
I've come up with a formula to approximate hop utilization in a continuous
fashion by fitting a curve to the data from the "Hops" issue of Zymurgy.
The article is "Calculating Hop Bitterness in Beer" by Jackie Rager, and
is found on pages 53 and 54. (Thanks, Jackie.)
I know what you're saying: "Overkill". But in preparation for the
"do-it-all" spreadsheet that I hope to write sometime in the near future,
I've been trying to create a formula for all those little brewing
calculations that don't generally have one.
The main reason for fitting a curve, is to have an easy way of calculating
IBU's with a spreadsheet, or programmable calculator. The secondary
reason is to have some reasonable interpolation of intermediate boiling
times. Of course the smooth function is only as good as the original
data; but I think that it would provide more consistent results--especially
for someone like me who likes to add hops at different times (other than
the standard :60, :30, :05).
The graph approaches 5% utilization towards zero boiling time. This
might seem strange at first until you assume that "zero" boiling time
means that the hops were boiled for zero minutes, but they were still
added to the wort. In other words, I take the point zero to mean dry
hopping; or probably more correctly, putting the hops in at the very end
of the boil (steeping). Dry hopping and steeping does (in my limited
experience) add to the bitterness a little. (About 5%, right? :-)
Here's the data from the article:
boil (minutes) Hop Utilization (percent)
< 5 5.0
6 - 10 6.0
11 - 15 8.0
16 - 20 10.1
21 - 25 12.1
26 - 30 15.3
31 - 35 18.8
36 - 40 22.8
41 - 45 26.9
46 - 50 28.1
51 - 60 30.0
>From that, I created a data point for each minute:
(0, 0.05), (1, 0.05), (2, 0.05), (3, 0.05), (4, 0.05), (5, 0.05), (6, 0.06),
(7, 0.06), (8, 0.06), (9, 0.06), ...
Then, I fit a smooth function to the data. Here's the function that I
came up with:
___________________________________________________________________________
utilization = 18.109069 + 13.862039 * hyptan[(minutes - 31.322749) / 18.267743]
___________________________________________________________________________
(The hyperbolic-tangent may be expanded to it's exponential definition if
your calculator or spreadsheet doesn't have hyptan.)
x -x
e - e
tanh(x) = ----------- e = 2.71828182844...
x -x
e + e
This formula was fit with the least-squares method. I realized that a
hyperbolic-tangent fit much better than a polynomial, because the data
implies an "s" curve. Here's the data and the curve superimposed:
| _______
| ___-----
.30 + ooo***oooo
| _--
| oo*oo
| oooo*
| _-
.25 + -
| _-
| oo*oo
U | _
T | -
I .20 + _-
L | o*ooo
I | -
Z | _- o = data
A | _ - = fit curve
T .15 + o*ooo * = curve and data intersect
I | _-
O | -
N | oo*oo
| _-
.10 + ooo*o
| _-
| ooo**
| __--
| ____***oo
.05 **oooo
|
|
|
|
0 +---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|-
0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70
MINUTES
As you can see the curve fits pretty well with the data. Of course the
data is to be questioned; but it's the best that I've seen so far. (I
especially suspect the data for the 41-45 range, it looks a little too
high to be consistent.)
Here's a table that the function generates:
___________________________________________________________________________
Hop Utilization per Boiling Time
+ :00 :01 :02 :03 :04 :05 :06 :07 :08 :09
:00 .051 .052 .053 .054 .056 .057 .059 .061 .062 .065
:10 .067 .070 .072 .075 .079 .082 .086 .090 .095 .100
:20 .105 .110 .116 .122 .128 .135 .142 .149 .156 .164
:30 .171 .179 .186 .194 .201 .209 .216 .223 .230 .236
:40 .242 .248 .254 .259 .264 .269 .273 .277 .281 .285
:50 .288 .291 .294 .296 .298 .300 .302 .304 .306 .307
:60 .308 .309 .310 .311 .312 .313 .314 .314 .315 .315
___________________________________________________________________________
Have Fun!
-Alan (Overkill) Edwards
.------------------------------------. To find the sacred river Alph
| Alan Edwards: rush@xanadu.llnl.gov | To walk the caves of ice
| or: alan-edwards@llnl.gov | Oh, I will dine on honeydew
`------------------------------------' And drink the milk of Paradise
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1072, 02/08/93
*************************************
-------
