Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1076
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 93/02/12 00:41:41
HOMEBREW Digest #1076 Fri 12 February 1993
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
RE: all grain snobs, diacetyl (James Dipalma)
Enzymes and temperature (McHarry)
Rye (McHarry)
Overnight mashing (McHarry)
Re: Cincinnati Brewpubs (Randy Smith)
wyeast 2308 and other stuff (CHUCKM)
Clarifiers and dry-hopping (jay marshall 283-5903)
request ("CHESTER RYEGUILD CPS112")
Lipids in wort ("Bob Jones")
Licorice for better head... (Steven Tollefsrud)
re:wine digest. (THOMASR)
Baltimore/DC brewpubs (SIMONS22)
A Beer Odyssey (Act II) (Richard Stueven)
All Grain comments and a recipe (Phil Hultin)
Protein rest for dextrine malt? (Rob Bradley)
cold break & pitching ("Knight,Jonathan G")
All grain costs and wine methods (Nick Zentena)
yeast reuse correction & all grain costs (Jim Busch)
Fermenting in Stainless ("Jim Daly, Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA")
AHA Conference Schedule (Bill Ridgely FTS 402-1336)
Chinook,Lag, Foam (Jack Schmidling)
address verification (Jena Davidson)
Irish Red Ale (again) (Lynn Kerby)
the fermentables-adjuncts-yeasts matrix (Richard Childers)
Irish Brew (Bill A. Danforth)
fruit wine making (Victor Reijs)
chocolate in beer (Sandy Cockerham)
Misc. beginner questions (Kevin Casey)
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
(Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
IMPORTANT NEWS -- PLEASE READ
-----------------------------
There will be nobody reading mail sent to homebrew-request during the
period Feb 8 through approx. Feb 28. This means that any requests for
changes or cancellations will not be handled until the end of the month.
Subscription requests will continue to be handled automatically, and the
digest will continue to be sent automatically, barring any computing
device catastrophes. So if you send a message here and get no immediate
reply, or if the digest stops suddenly, please do not panic. Just be
patient.
ps. and please try to behave yourselves while I'm gone ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 16:49:26 EST
From: dipalma@banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: all grain snobs, diacetyl
Hi All,
Just my .02 worth on the issue of all grain snobbery. I think the
whole debate is ridiculous. "All grain brewers are snobs" and "extract
brewers are lazy, paranoid, and ill-informed" are both groundless,
sweeping generalities, neither position is logically defensible.
IMHO, any person who cares enough about good beer to spend the time and
effort to brew thier own is a kindred spirit. Slowly but surely, the level
of beer consciousness in this country is rising, which is at least partly
attributable to the recent growth of the homebrewing craft. That said,
what earthly difference does it make *how* the homebrew was produced? I
for one am not going to turn up my nose at very good beer just because it
was brewed using procedures that differ from my own.
***********************************************************************
In HBD #1073, Lee Menegoni writes:
>I discussed my brewing process with an experienced all grain brewer
I should preface my comments by mentioning that I am this experienced
all grain brewer. "Experienced" in this case is a relative term, I've been
grain brewing for about 6 months longer than Lee, I've done perhaps 15-20
more batches than he. Having tasted his beers on many occasions (YUM!), I
consider us as being at about the same point on the learning curve.
>2) Adding finings immediatley after racking to secondary.
I admit to being somewhat obsessive about clarity, I used polyclar when
racking ales because I wanted crystal clear beer. While this achieved the
desired effect, I did end up with noticeable levels of diacetyl. Polyclar
is rather indiscriminate about what it scrubs out of the wort, it will
cause the yeast to fall out of suspension quickly. This does diminish the
ability of the yeast to reduce diacetyl.
>What besides pitching to wort at fermentation temperatue and finning after
>the yeast has settled or not at all what can we do to reduce the production
>of diacetyl and increase its reduction later? I still plan to artificially
>carbonate it seems to make for clearer beer and I can drink it sooner, 3
With my latest batch of ale, I did not use finings at all. Once the beer
had fermented out, I racked to a keg, put a CO2 blanket on it, and left it
in the fermentation room at 65F for 2 days. My reasoning was that racking
the beer roused some yeast back into suspension at a time when there were
no fermentables, a favorable condition for diacetyl reduction, according to
the Zymurgy troubleshooting issue. Leaving it at 65F for two days ensured
that the yeast will not settle quickly, providing it with an opportunity to
work on the diacetyl. I then chilled and force carbonated the beer as
usual.
How well did this work? The brew has been conditioning since Sunday,
should be ready soon. Lee, when you come over on Thursday night to pick up
the yeast culture, let's tap it and see.
Ah, the joys of experimentation :-)
Cheers,
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 18:54:48 EST
From: mcharry@freedom.otra.com (McHarry)
Subject: Enzymes and temperature
I know that enzyme activity varies with temperature, but I have never seen
discussed whether one can run a mash up to the upper 150s to break down
some of the starches, then drop back to 148 or so to finish off the
dextrins. Does the higher temperature just favor the one enzyme system
over the other, or is the lower temperature system actually destroyed? I
have always thought the latter, but the literature is unclear, and it would
seem the malting process exceeds those temperatures.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 19:00:30 EST
From: mcharry@freedom.otra.com (McHarry)
Subject: Rye
I have been messing (literally) with a couple pounds of rye in my ale. The
first batch I boiled the rye and dumped it into the mash. The rye failed
to convert since it has a husk or membrane that failed to burst. This
stuff needs broken up. I ran it through the Maltmill for the second batch
and that worked much better, but-- when I dumped the spent grain into the
garden I noted a darker area near the bottom of the bed. It was sweet!
Apparently this stuff forms some gunky mass that needs roused into the
sparge water a couple times after the first runnings. I shudder to think
the yield I might have gotten had I known. As it was, I got 27.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 19:06:19 EST
From: mcharry@freedom.otra.com (McHarry)
Subject: Overnight mashing
I have been trying overnight mashing for the last couple batches, and I
like the results. For the last batch, I doughed in with 130 degree water
from the tap, did the protein rest, and added the rest of the water, still
at 130. Then I popped the whole thing in a warm oven and went to bed. By
morning the temperature had risen to about 163. I put the sparge water on
with the coffee and had at it. The apparent time savings is great, and the
extract seems just fine. Of course, this result is dependent on the size
of the mash and the temperature your oven will hold. I find that a mash
will heat just a little slower than an equal quantity of water, so put a
pot of water in overnight and check the results. It might work for you
also.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 7:14:14 EST
From: rjsmith@iron.hq.aflc.af.mil (Randy Smith)
Subject: Re: Cincinnati Brewpubs
As Juli recently said:
> I'm headed down to Cincinnati this coming weekend for a business trip
> and was wondering if there were any good (or bad) brewpubs in the area.
> I've heard that there is one right across the boarder in Kentucky, but
> that is the only one that I have heard of.
>
> If you know of any in or around the Cincinnati area please send email
> ASAP.
The brewbup you are referring to in Northern Kentucky is Oldenberg. They make
some fairly good beers that you can get throughout most of SW Ohio and N Ky.
Up here in Dayton (45min - 1hr from Cincy) there is the "Chickery" off I-675
on Ohio Route 725. They specialize in chicken (hence the name) and do it
quite well. They also make three beers on the premises. I don't remember
their names off hand but they have a red ale (pretty good), an American light
pilner (standard stuff), and a wheat beer (never tried it). Food is great and
the beer is good, worth the trip.
There is also a sports bar on Marshall Rd that has an Irish Ale made under
contract with Oldenberg. The place is called Harrigan's. They have typical
bar & grill food as well. Major meat market on Thurs night.
- --Randy--
------------------------------
Date: 10 Feb 93 08:23:52 EST
From: CHUCKM@PBN73.Prime.COM
Subject: wyeast 2308 and other stuff
Hi brewers,
Here are a few items I am seeking opinion on:
1. Wyeast 2308 (Munich). The description of this yeast says that
is sometimes 'unstable'. What does this mean. A friend told me
that this yeast may quit before expected final gravity is achieved
and rousing and extra aeration may be necessary.... any comments?
2. Does anyone know any specifics about Alexanders malt extract..eg,
what type of barley(s), mashing specifics..etc.
3. There was an in Zymurgy for a software application called
'Brewers Logbook' (i think). It looks like a MS Windows application
and sells for $49. Does anyone have any experience with this
program. $49 seems a little steep to me.
Thanks and happy brewing
chuckm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:49:39 CST
From: jay marshall 283-5903 <marshall@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Clarifiers and dry-hopping
Hello all, I brewed up a batch a couple of weeks ago and, due to too much
HB being imbibed during the process, I forgot to add my usual dose of Irish
Moss during the boil. No big deal, I thought, I'll just use some kind of
clarifier before I bottle. Yesterday, looking at my beer sitting in the
secondary, I thought about dry-hopping it. This leads to some questions.
First, what is the best kind of clarifying agent (are there really any
differences between using Isinglass, gelatin, or something else)? Second,
will I run into any problems dry-hopping and using a clarifier? I plan to
use pellets (in case that makes a difference). Finally, am I correct in
assuming that the clarifiers only have an effect on the proteins, and that
it will not affect yeast availablility for bottle conditioning?
thanks,
Jay
marshall@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
------------------------------
Date: 10 Feb 93 11:37:00 EST
From: "CHESTER RYEGUILD CPS112" <forsythec@clvax1.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: request
please put me on your email lists.
thanks.
chester
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:55:08 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones@novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Lipids in wort
Most of the research on the lipid in wort topic was done by Micah. One of
the references used was Declerck. This rather rare text is full of good info.
You may be able to check out a copy from your local library via an
inter-library loan. I would really like to have a personal copy for my
library, I would also like to have copies of both volumes of Malting and
Brewing science. If anyone has unwanted copies for the RIGHT price, please
email. There is a more polished discussion of this lipid topic in the last
issue of Zymurgy that Micah and I wrote, complete with references.
Bob Jones
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 17:07:14 +0100
From: steve_T%fleurie@champigny (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Licorice for better head...
I have a couple of homebrew books which suggest using
licorice as a way of promoting better head in beer.
In a pharmacy here in France I was able to buy what
they call reglisse, which are shriveled up sticks
of wood (or root?) with a darkish nut color. They are
about 5 inches long. My question is this, is this
what I should be using or should I use the sort of
black licorice sticks we used to gnaw on when we were
kids (which is mostly molasses, I think)? I tried the
woodish reglisse (half a stick, pulverized) in my last
two batches and had good head, but I'd like to know if
this can be attributed to the licorice I used, or if it
might be the fact that I used unmalted barley in my wort
for the first time (contributing proteins for better head retention?).
The problem is I've got two variables and I don't know
which helped.
If anybody who knows about licorice in brewing can advise me,
I'd be much obliged.
Steve Tollefsrud
Valbonne, France
e-mail: steve_T@fleurie.compass.fr
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 17:36:53 MET
From: THOMASR@EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch
Subject: re:wine digest.
hello again.
I've had four requests so far for the address of the wine digest. Well, I'm
going to have to disappoint you. I found a number of mail-ins at
rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (ip 129.69.1.12) a few months ago while
browsing the vast archives they keep. However, since I already
have more recipes and less storage space than I can use, I didn't
make a not of where in the haystack the needle actually was!
I has a quck look today, and if you're feeling adventurous you might
try /soft/kommunikation/news/spool/news and further down.
It is not beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was actually reading
rec.food.drink or some such. I'm pretty sure it wasn't rec.crafts.brewing
though. Before you start chasing down the directories or getting
teed off by being continually forbidden entry to the (VERY POPULAR)
site, I'll let you know that the posts I read were very light
on info and rather heavy on banter. This may have been an exceptional
selection that I read, but you have been warned.
Rob TH.
p.s. I'll pass on any info I may remember/rediscover as soon as I do.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:25 EDT
From: SIMONS22@WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Baltimore/DC brewpubs
Hi....
I'm planning a little trip to see brew pubs and microbrewers in the
Baltimore/Washington DC area. Looking for your suggestions and reviews.
Please mail me [save the traffic],
Alex Simons
internet: simons22@wharton.upenn.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 10:18:42 -0800
From: Richard Stueven <gak@wrs.com>
Subject: A Beer Odyssey (Act II)
A Beer Odyssey (Act II)
And up the road I went, and boy is it a long way to Eureka. I can hear
the Downtown Brown calling me through the redwoods. By three o'clock,
I was there.
It's a nice place, Lost Coast, with a lot of seating upstairs and
downstairs, and a long brass-covered bar. A sign on the wall
announces that the brewery was established on July 13, 1990; Friday
the Thirteenth! I hope good luck stays with this place, because they
make some of the best beers around.
The bar was nearly empty when I arrived, so I got to talk with Marty
behind the bar for a while. I asked him if they had beer available
for takeout in the plastic gallon jugs like many of the other
California brewpubs. He told me that the Department of Recycling told
him that those containers are illegal! I find this very hard to
believe, because I've been to too many other breweries that offered
this method of takeout, and I named many of them for him. I wasn't
able to convince Marty, though; he said that all he knows is what the
government tells him. I'd appreciate any information that will set
either him or me straight.
I had a sample of each of their beers to wash down some mighty fine
(mighty HOT) Buffalo Wings:
Pale - Very good pale, heavy body, light taste, well-hopped.
Hefeweizen - Good smooth American style. Thick, just sweet
enough. VGI. (Very Good Indeed!)
Dunkel Hefeweizen - Very caramelly. If my memory serves me,
doesn't it taste a lot like the Brown?
Brown - Nope, the Dunkel Hefeweizen doesn't taste like the
Brown at all...so much for my memory. Brown isn't
nearly as sweet as the Dunkel Hefeweizen. An excellent
brown! I like it better (side-by-side) than the
Hefeweizen.
Stout - Too burnt/astringent. I think maybe they should cut
back on the black patent malt.
As I tasted their beers, and sipped my pint of Brown, I studied my
map. I noticed that Highway 299 runs between US 101 and I-5. I also
noticed that if I could get to I-5, I could stop at Sierra Nevada
Brewing Company in Chico on the way home. I told Marty what I was up
to, and asked him if Highway 299 was the best way to get to I-5 from
Eureka. He told me that it was possible, but if I was willing to
drive four hours or so out of my way, I could visit three more
brewpubs along the way! I had to think about it for a few minutes,
but not for too many.
Marty's advice: follow US 101 north (being sure to stop at Humboldt
Brewing in Arcata) to US 199, continuing to Cave Junction, Oregon.
There you'll find the Pizza Deli & Brewery. Continue on US 199 to
Grant's Pass, Oregon, and pick up I-5 South. The Rogue Brewery is in
Ashland, Oregon. Spend the night in Ashland, and head south on I-5 in
the morning to get to Sierra Nevada in Chico. "Sure," says I, "and
thanks for the tip!" And off I went.
I got halfway to Arcata (a quick six miles from Eureka) before I
realized that I had forgotten the T-shirt that I had paid for at Lost
Coast. At twenty bucks a throw, it's not the sort of thing you want
to leave behind, so I made my only backtrack of the journey.
But soon enough I was in Arcata. I wasn't real sure what to expect,
as I didn't remember tasting their beers anywhere, and I didn't have
any lowdown on the brewery before I arrived. It's really a huge
place, especially considering where it is! (Take a look at your
California maps, and try to find Arcata.) For a very good writeup of
the place, see Steve McClenathan's front-page article in the August
1992 Celebrator.
I would have liked to have spent more time here, because the beer was
excellent! The real kicker: they were all served from real live hand
pumps. In all my travels up to that time, I hadn't seen a hand pump
on this side of the Atlantic. I was impressed! My round of samplers
included:
Honey and Ginger Ale - 4.0%. It certainly is. Pretty good!
Light...sweet, the ginger flavor is obvious.
Gold Rush - 4.5%. OK, fruity light ale.
Red Nectar - 5.0%. Good amber, well-hopped. I've seen
bottles of this at Liquor Barn, etc.
Redwood Amber - 5.5%. Better than Red Nectar, less hops, more
malt flavor.
Storm Cellar Porter - 5.7%. Pretty burnt, maybe too much for
a porter. Pretty tasty, though...
Humboldt Stout - 5.7%. Not as burnt as the porter, smoother.
Unfortunately, I didn't have more time to spend there; Oregon was
calling. US 199 is a twisty path through mountains and redwoods.
Beautiful scenery, and I'll bet it's even more impressive when you're
the passenger in the car, rather than the driver. Distractions aside,
I arrived in Cave Junction around eight o'clock Saturday night, and I
found the Pizza Deli & Brewery right along the side of the road.
The name describes this place perfectly; it's a typical little pizza
joint with a brewery stuck on the side! I bypassed the "Baitbucket
Pizza" (shrimp, oysters and/or anchovies) in favor of a small "Deli
Delight" (linguica, mushrooms, pepperoni, olives, beef, and sausage).
(So sue me; I'm a carnivore.) I noted in their menu-cum-flyer that
they use some imported hops, which I thought was a little strange in
Oregon, considering the quality of the hops grown there. They also
mention that their beers "are centuries old styles that have been the
daily fare of sober, hard-working men and women - not necessarily high
in alcohol or strong in flavor". That last clause - "not...strong in
flavor" really caught my eye and set my expectations somewhat lower
than they might have been. I was pleasantly surprised.
Light - Good pale - good pizza beer.
Blackberry - It's a good porter. Can't taste the fruit, which
is OK by me, since I don't like fruit beers.
ESB - Not bitter enough to be called an ESB, but not bad at
all.
Dark - Good smooth dark ale. Doesn't taste very strong,
though...
Nut Brown Ale - "High in flavor but low in alcohol" - ain't
that the truth.
Overall, five good beers, and some very good pizza. This stop really
fortified me for what I thought would be the last leg of tonight's
journey.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:02 EST
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: All Grain comments and a recipe
So, I see people have been getting bent out of shape about how
they brew their beer. I will simply note that this past weekend
I entered a competition sponsored by CAMRA Ottawa, and my All
Grain Oatmeal Stout placed third in a field of 14, but that the
FIRST PRIZE WINNER WAS AN EXTRACT BASED STOUT. And, it was a good
brew, too. So. I brew all grain because that's how I get the most
pleasure out of brewing. My beers are good. But, Good Beer is made
in many ways, the key being A GOOD ATTITUDE! So maybe we should
lighten up, eh?
Anyhow, I recall a request some time ago for more recipes and less
babble. So here is my CAMRA Third Prize Winning recipe, with
comments for improvement.
"Breakfast of Champions" Oatmeal Stout
Water 35 litres mixed with 0.5 tsp salt and 1.5 tsp chalk to buffer
the mash.
English Pale Malt (Munton and Fison 2.5 L) 2.8 kg
Munton and Fison Crystal (60L ?) 0.8 kg
Rolled Oats 0.4 kg
Flaked Barley 0.6 kg
Chocolate Malt 0.44 kg
Roasted Barley 0.1 kg
All grains added to mash tun, put first liquor (11 litres) at 80C.
Obtained strike temp of 64C (too low). Added 3 litres boiling water
to obtain 66C. Mashed for 1 hour. Added 6 litres boiling water
to mashout at 70C for 25 min.
Drained and sparged with 85C water (too hot). Collected runoff until
SG 1.010. Boiled whole wort with 0.5 tsp powdered licorice, 227 g of
lactose, and 7 plugs (0.5 oz, 15 g each) of English Fuggles 4.2 alpha.
Boiled 1 hour, then removed as much of the hops as possible. Added
Irish Moss, 10 grams, boiled 15 mins more.
Chilled in counterflow system, removing hot break but allowing cold
break to settle in carboy. Pitched with active Wyeast 1084 culture.
OG 1.050 in 22 litres.
Primary ferment 9 days to SG 1.030.
Secondary ferment/maturation 24 days to FG 1.020. Both ferments
at 22 C in closed vessels with locks or blowoffs.
Bottled with 2/3 cup corn sugar.
Carbonation took about 3 weeks but gave nice result. Head retention
is not optimal (oats are a problem). A bit excessively astringent
and roasty, next time add the dark grains only in the mashout, add
a bit more crystal. This one got 39.6/50 but the winner, AN EXTRACT
STOUT, got 42.4/50!
So, There is my recipe, took all day, I had fun, but the extract
product was judged the better beer. Ok by me. How about you folks?
Cheers, P.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 13:35:42 -0500
From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: Protein rest for dextrine malt?
I recently used dextrine malt (carapils) for the first time.
It was US malt. 6-row I think.
7 # Munton and Fison pale ale malt
2 # carapils
1 # dark crystal
I used a one-step infusion mash in the low 150s. The beer is tasty but
has a serious haze. Should I have given the mash a protein rest?
The beer is still in the secondary. Can anything be done about the haze?
Cheers,
Rob "reviled originator of the insipid all-grain snob thread"
(bradley@adx.adelphi.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:58:38 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: cold break & pitching
I read Brian Bliss's post on cold break & racking off trub with interest.
I've only got twenty batches behind me, but I thought my somewhat heretical
methods might be of interest to those with as little or even less experience
than myself. If some of you grown-up brewers out there would like to comment
too, it would be great.
I boil my beer in a Vollrath pot (borrowed from a friend who is currently not
brewing). I generally boil about 4 gallons, losing a gallon or so over the
sixty minutes. I have pre-boiled and chilled, first in the fridge and then,
while brewing, in the freezer, down to almost-frozen, 2 gallon jugs of water.
When the boil is over, I stick the Vollrath in my kitchen sink, filled with
ice water and dump the almost-frozen water in on top. I cover the pot &
wait about a half hour or until all the ice in the sink melts.
Seems to me I get a pretty good cold break from this.
Wort-chillers? We don' need no stinkin' wort-chillers!!!
Then, I rack the beer into my plastic bucket, add the yeast starter (i use
the boiled DME + a couple hop pellets method) and stir like nuts, take the
gravity reading, and rack into the glass primary ($18 water bottle - $8
deposit forfeit, and $10 for water which made really nice beer once) to which
I attach a 1" blowoff hose.
Now here's the heretical part. After having read the discussion of yeast
nutrients in trub when it first appeared a few months ago, I decided to rack
off not only the beer but just a little bit of break material too (maybe 1/2
cup or so). Also, in spite of all the *worrying* about temperature shocking
yeast, I pitch at a relatively high temperature - usually in the 80's F.(I
brew ales), because, o.k., well, my chilling methods DON'T work as well as a
wort-chiller does - but the bottom line is that I always get fantastic starts
(under six hours and a lot of crud in the blowoff bucket) and I've been getting
some pretty decent beer the last few batches.
I imagine I am just being silly with that little bit of break material I
rack off, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything either. And if there might
be side effects from pitching at high temps, I'd love to know what they
might be. At any rate, I may not be one of the World's Greatest but how
about one of the World's Cheapest (until my friend recalls his pot and I
have to go get one)?
Any remarks would be happily entertained.
Jonathan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:26:12 -0500
From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead@CANREM.COM>
Subject: All grain costs and wine methods
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 9:20:23 EST
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: yeast reuse correction & all grain costs
RE: Costs of all grain brewing.
>JS has again fired up the snobbery issue and generated a lot of
>wasted bandwidth in the process. I am sure jack is pleased. What
>I want to comment on is the response that implied the reason to
>avoid all grain brewing is cost. It has been noted in this forum
>before that going all grain does not mean going broke. To sum up
>the costs needed (a low budget, workable setup):
>2 plastic buckets with the holes drilled in one, plus a spigot-
>$10
>used 7 gallon SS kettle - 35-50$.
>(maybe-corona mill-45$,new)
>wort chiller, built at home, $25.
>total- 65-130$
Actually I started out for even less. 2 food grade
buckets that I managed to get for free. a 32qt
enamel canning pot. No wort chiller and precrushed
malt. To be honest I was using the canning pot for
full boils with extract so my only added cost was the
tap on the buckets. Less then $50 total including
the kettle.
Cost isn't the issue but time is! If you don't want
to set aside the better part of the day then don't.
IMHO liquid yeast did much more for my beer then
mashing did.
On the issue of wine making. Here in Toronto you can get
US wine grapes in season.[Say late Aug-late Oct]. You can
buy them either whole or get them crushed by the seller. A
second choice is to buy pre-made musts of imported grape
juices which are usually available year round.
If you are starting out with either the premade musts or
pre-crushed grapes the effort required is much lower then
beer and even simpler then the orginal method posted. [I.E.
dump concentrate add water and sugar] At most you will have
to add yeast. Of course you could stick to more traditonal
methods and use the natural occuring yeasts on the grape
skins. IMHO this tends to produce a wine of greater
interest.
On the cost issue a standard case of grapes [36lbs] produces
2-2.5Imp gallons of juice [say 10litres+] with prices
ranging from $15-25cdn per case plus crushing costs [I think
around $1 we crush our own so I'm not sure] Must are higher
priced.
Has long has you stick to relatively simple methods you will
end up with drinkable wines. Avoid doing anything wierd like
adding extra sugars or boiling the juice. The main point is
to get good grapes.
Nick
*****************************************************************************
I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles!
zen%hophead@canrem.com
*****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:41:03 PST
From: "Jim Daly, Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA" <daly@mast.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Fermenting in Stainless
Can anyone comment on their experience fermenting in stainless?
Specifically, I'd like to get away from using glass and the idea
that comes to mind is to use cornelius kegs. For my primary I
could replace a valve with a blowoff tube (although the diameter
may be too small with the existing hole), and for a secondary I
could replace a valve with an airlock or checkvalve. An alternative
for the primary may be a quarter keg with the top removed, which
would provide more headroom (7.5 gallons). I guess I could get
really fancy and put a valve on the center-underside of the kegs
to drain off the sediment during fermentation (the base of the kegs
are cupped), similar to what is done with commercial tanks.
Has anyone tried something like this? Pros/Cons? Thanks...
Jim Daly
daly@mast.enet.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Maynard, MA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 14:23:00 EST
From: Bill Ridgely FTS 402-1336 <RIDGELY@A1.CBER.FDA.GOV>
Subject: AHA Conference Schedule
Yesterday, Charlie Castell brought to our attention the conjunction
of a ski race camp with this year's AHA Conference:
>Most of you are reading this thinking that I've sent mail to the
>wrong digest. However, consider the dates:
>3-day Summer Race Camp, Mt. Hood July 23-25
>AHA National Convention, Portland July 26-30
>Oregon Brewers Festival, Portland July 30-Aug 1
>Looks like quite a week. (Etc).
Well, as long as we're on the subject, here's another amazing
conjunction that some of you may find interesting:
AHA National Convention, Portland July 23-25
Oregon Brewers Festival, Portland July 30-Aug 1
National Speleological Society Annual
Convention, Pendleton Aug 2-6
For those not familiar with the latter, it's the national
association devoted to caves and cave exploration. I've found over
the years that a lot of homebrewers are also cavers (we have
several in my homebrew club), and believe me, beer and cavers go
together like Scotch and soda. Cavers are also generally crazy and
like to party in a major fashion. The NSS Convention is a week-
long campout with nightly parties including, among other things,
"adult water sports" (sauna, hot tub, etc). Don't get me wrong -
some serious science and athletic competition takes place during
the day, but evenings are generally devoted to carousing and mass
consumption (Does this start to sound like the AHA Convention?).
The fact that the two are colocated in time and space this year is
a major reason for an old West Virginia potholer like myself to
make the trip (although I'll be at the AHA anyway to co-present one
of the talks).
Out of curiosity - any other caving homebrewers out there? Private
e-mail preferred.
Bill
ridgely@cber.cber.fda.gov
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 15:00 CST
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Chinook,Lag, Foam
>From: kstiles@aluxpo.att.com
>ObBrewing: No takers on my question about flavor/aroma properties
of Chinook hops, huh? Do any commercial brews use them?
A number of brewers use them although at the moment I can not name them but
it frequently comes up in trade journals. At last Sunday's ALEFEST sponsored
by CBS, there was one that boasted of the use of Chinook exclusive and it was
an excellent ale. Unfortunately, I do not recall the brand.
I have used almost nothing but Chinook for the past year in over 40 batches
and am just now moving on to other varieties now that I have a bench mark.
I just bought some imported Hallertau to try in my first batch with Belgian
Munich malt. I will let youall know if it is worth the expense.
I had routinely used a 1/2 oz plug of imported Saaz at the end of boil but as
I could not tell the difference between batches without it, I quit doing it.
As far as aroma goes, I have nothing to compare it with yet but moments after
dumping the Chinook into the boiling wort, the aroma that wafts out of the
kettle can only be described as what I now consider one of the reasons I make
beer. I will be most impressed if an exotic hops can improve on this.
>From: Lee Menegon <necis!lmenegon@transfer.stratus.com>
>1) Pitching into wort that was much warmer than the target fermentation
temperature. We did this to reduce lag time.
If your dyacetyl taste is coming from fermentation temp and you are concerned
about lag time, I suggest you reconsider your priorities.
Presuming that you have a reasonable quantity of well working starter, the
lag time will not be excessive if you pitch at or near primary fermentation
temp. However, the most benign temperature is always whatever the starter is
when pitched. If it is at room temperature, it should be pitched into room
temp wort for minimum lag time and to minimize the shock to the yeast.
BTW, you did not mention just how warm "warmer" is so I am shooting in the
dark but I think in general, far too much concern is given to lag time and
curing it by pitching "warm" is probably not worth the risk.
>From: korz@iepubj.att.com
> I urge you to try the blowoff method for a beer or two and compare.
I don't think I want to get into blowoff vs skimming again but I think that
most people who use "open" fermenters skim the foam which is the equivalent
of blowoff. The point made by the author was that removing the foam, by
whatever means, severly reduces the quality of the beer. That is the
mis-information we were dealing with.
For what it is worth, I tried blow-off once and wrote it off as just another
one of those procedures that you either believe in or don't and no amount of
discussion will change a believer's mind.
>From: korz@iepubj.att.com
>> I suspect that it might have a negative effect if Fix's hypothesis on HSA
is correct. What say George?
>Oops. I think there's some miscommunication here, Jack -- the mash isn't
hot at this time so Hot-side Aeration (HSA) is not an issue.
I was under the impression that the spray water being mixed with the grist
was hot. As spraying it would significantly increase its surface area, it
would disolve more oxygen than if simple poured in. If cold, it would be
even worse but of course become CSA.
>From: orgasm!davevi@uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
>>Keeping in mind that lots of people stick with extract because they are
lazy, paranoid or il-informed (blah blah blah) .....
>So, Jack, since *YOU* were still an extract brewer right up until the middle
of last year, which were you-lazy, paranoid, or ill-informed? Maybe you left
one out?
I am sure this will disappoint you but I have no problem recognizing that I
was all of the above and I probably did leave a few out. This is precisely
the reason I feel so strongly about my position. For the record, my first
all grain batch was on Sep 23, 1991 and have not used extract since.
> If anyone else gets as ticked off as I do with stupid statements like
that quoted above, I've been advised our only recourse is to FLOOD the
poster with private e-mail stating how we feel. Please do; I am!
I much prefer your public comments to your trashy and vulgar email.
If anyone takes your suggestion, they will get the same treatment. As a
matter of fact, if you do it again, I will start posting your trash to the
Digest.
js
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 15:52:08 MST
From: Jena Davidson <G0463114@NMSUVM1.NMSU.EDU>
Subject: address verification
Yes, you do indeed have the right address. I have just subsribed and am intere
sted in recipes, news, techniques. What is your favorite beer? (imported and d
omestic) Happy Valentines DAy!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 19:16:25 PST
From: lfk%kerbit@uunet.UU.NET (Lynn Kerby)
Subject: Irish Red Ale (again)
In HBD1074 Guy McConnell writes:
> The one saving grace
>of Coors is that they are the only megabrewer still producing a decent, all
>barley beer, albeit seasonally, in Winterfest. We couldn't even get that here
>in Huntsville this year.
Too bad :-( it wasn't half bad for a Coors product. I took offense a
the word "STOUT" on the label where other domestic premium beers are
labeled "MALT LIQUOR". Winterfest and stout are about as far apart as
you can get in the world of beer styles like the Sam Adams Cranberry
Lambic and real Lambics. I wish that domestic brewers would just stop
being so pretentious and call their stuff what it is.
Lynn Kerby - {apple,amdahl}!veritas!lfk or lfk@veritas.com
Disclaimer: Any and all opinions expressed herein are my own and do not
necessarily represent the views of anyone, especially my employer.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 19:25:26 PST
From: Richard Childers <rchilder@us.oracle.com>
Subject: the fermentables-adjuncts-yeasts matrix
"Date: 22 Jan 93 13:34:21 EST
From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067@compuserve.com>
Subject: Barleywine Yeast Method
.
.
.
The notion of using champagne yeast is pretty bizarre, when you
thithink of it. Can you imagine any self-respecting British
brewery using some Frog yeast? Part of the problem may have
arisen from the homebrewer's notion that everything should be
quick and easy. The British barleywines I've tasted have all
required _years_ to reach a drinkable stage--but they _will_
get there."
I find it most convenient to view brewing as a finite state system with
four axes :
- fermentable(s)
- adjunct(s)
- yeast(s)
- sequence(s)
It can be visualized thusly :
Fermentables & adjuncts .....
+------------------------------------------------------- . . .
|
Y |
e |
a |
s |
t |
s |
|
. |
. |
. |
.
.
.
... and both axes are deliberately _not_ finite, because I don't believe
there are _any_ boundaries to the brewing experience, except those that
are imposed by the participant.
Not only is the list of fermentables and adjuncts unlimited, but, given
the proclivities of yeast populations and the diversity of microclimates,
so are the possible yeasts and their combinations.
This is one of the reasons I like the homebrewing community, because of
the vagueness of the term 'brewing', where the boundaries aren't very
specific. One can brew beer ... wine ... cider ... and anything else one
wishes to try.
The number of known results are far outweighed by the number of unknown
results, and this promises rewards to the experimentally inclined.
For example, I'm fermenting some black cherry juice from Napa Valley with
Pasteur Champagne Yeast, the same yeast I use to make sparkling cider out
of apple juice. I tried natural apple yeasts and liked the champagne yeast
much better. Even if it doesn't taste good I can use it as an adjunct to
another brewing experiment, like a fake cherry lambic.
- -- richard
=====
- -- richard childers rchilder@us.oracle.com 1 415 506 2411
oracle data center -- unix systems & network administration
... whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:39:31 PST
From: danforth@trinity.llnl.gov (Bill A. Danforth)
Subject: Irish Brew
Hello All,
My monthly dinner club is planning on an Irish theme for an upcoming dinner.
I am looking for recipes of Irish brews. Please send them via email, and if
people want, I can post a summary or post the recipe I used and how it came out.
Please send recipes to: danforth2@llnl.gov
Thanks in advance,
Bill Danforth
danforth2@llnl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 10:09:03 +0100
From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs@SURFnet.nl>
Subject: fruit wine making
Hello Rob and others,
> .... possibly because they don't (I'll take an industrial example : most
>english bitters contain types of sugar, eg mollasses). Well it's the same
>with wine. Wine making started long before the french made it their own.
>People have been making blackberry, strawberry, in fact hundreds of
>NON-grape wines for centuries. It is the "grape wine snobs" and a very
>powerful french industry which has meant that you can't buy them (a few
>companies in britain sell them, including Gales - the brewery).
>True this is a beer forum, and also true there are (sorry is) a digest
Also here is a big cultural difference between America and
Europe then. As I read in another mail that wine makers are
people who just take a can and brew something, you hear the
same story in Europe but then for beer makers;-)
But that is just for information and like all
generalizations it says not much!.
But there have already been more questions about wine and
reading the above message I see that there is a forum for
fruit wine making (I do not mean cider making (is a type of
wine) like mead). Is that correct and could you please
information on that.
If not, is it not possible to set up such a list somewhere,
who volonteers???
All the best,
Victor
------------------------------
Date: 11 Feb 1993 08:20:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Sandy Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: chocolate in beer
I for one can't tell you how to clean the mess, but next time perhaps you
should try using cocoa instead. In an old Zymurgy, Charlie P. has a recipe
for "Slanting Annie's Chocolate Porter". When he made it he spoke of the globs
of floating cocoa butter mess produced. He then stated that to get around that
one could use a good powdered cocoa.
One of the guys in the local brewclub made a chocolate porter with cocoa and
it was GREAT!
Sandy C.
From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L (MCVAX0::RX31852)
To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 08:58:01 EST
From: casey@bbt.com (Kevin Casey)
Subject: Misc. beginner questions
I began my homebrewing experience by brewing "kit" beers in September, and
have since brewed at least 4 batches of all malt extract beers. After 9 or
so batches, I have some questions that I would like answered.
I made a batch of Pilsener which looks beautiful in the bottle until I
refrigerate it. What causes the hazing of the beer when I chill it, and
how can I avoid it?
I have experimented with differenct adjuncts. Are there any items that should
not go in Beer that would cause it not to ferment properly?
I haven`t had a gushing problem but I do have some of the first beers that I
made and they seem to be overcarbonated. They were fine for 4-6 weeks and then
began to lose flavor. Is this due to the yeast used?, and how much flavor
is a factor of the yeast used?
At what temperature would an average beer of 4-5% alcohol freeze? I would rather
store them in my garage than in my closet, but do not want them to freeze.
Any help would be appreciated.
I also have one comment on the all-grain vs extract brewing wars. Even a kit beer
tastes better than most domestics.
Kevin Casey (casey@bbt.com)
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1076, 02/12/93
*************************************
-------
