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HOMEBREW Digest #1044
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 92/12/30 01:07:33
HOMEBREW Digest #1044 Wed 30 December 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
more keg help? (davehyde)
New Homebrewing Publication (Dewey Coffman)
Axbridge flaming of past... (Mike Zentner)
random musings (mgx)
sincere sentiment ( Todd Vafiades)
Is lactic acid ok to put in finished beer? (Phillip Seitz)
WARNING: Supplier knows ALL! (Glenn Raudins)
Good brewpubs in ???? (Karl F. Bloss)
Carbonation in a fermenter? (Daniel Roman)
Adjuncts (parsons1)
more random thoughts (mgx)
Hot-side Aeration / Laaglander high FG experiment (smanastasi)
Stuck Ferment, temperature, Co2 in beer (cole)
Holiday cheer for Winters (BOKENKAM)
pondering small-brewery tactics (it ain't that bad!) (Dick Dunn)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 08:25:40 EST
From: davehyde@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
Subject: more keg help?
OK, I've gotten the valve out of the top of my keg (beer, not soda), and I've
got all the plumbing, etc, and am ready to rack. Thanks for the help with that
one, everyone. Now what? Is it normal to prime the beer with a reduced amount
of sugar/DME, or does the CO2 supply all the needed carbonation? When racking,
should I go to a secondary, prime there, then rack to the keg? Do I agitate
the keg ("Your mother held Miller!") or let it set....? And finally, where can
I get guidelines for pressures for different styles of beer? I'm kegging a
lager, but I'll be trying others.
Thanks in advance.....
Oh, and are there any good brewpubs in.........:)
Dave Hyde
davehyde@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 6:45:22 CST
From: dewey@sooner.ctci.com (Dewey Coffman)
Subject: New Homebrewing Publication
I just discovered a new Home Brewing Publication published here
in Austin, TX. I am not affiliated with it, just figured I'd
pass along some more info on it.
The "Sneak Preview Edition" is due out soon(I've seen it).
Southwest Brewing News
11405 Evening Star Drive
Austin, TX 78739
(512) 282-3911
Covering Arkansas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Lousiana, New Mexico & Texas.
Home Brewing & other beer related news(like the battle for brewpubs
here in Texas.) Columns like: "Ask the Beer Doctor", Brew Ha-Ha's
(upcoming events), & "The Hopvine".
$12 a year.
Publisher: Joe Barfielda (512) 453-7001
Editor: Bill Metzger (512) 282-3911
Ad Manager: Hans Granheim (512) 443-3607
If some of these names look familiar, Bill Metzger had a article in
The New Brewer in 1992 Sept/Oct issue.
Tell him you heard about it from Dewey Coffman on USENET, maybe I'll
get to post excerpts here... ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 09:29:01 -0500
From: zentner@ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: Axbridge flaming of past...
Well, I SURE hope this is brewing related enough to please the digest
self-appointed police.
Last year I got one of those brew-in-a-bag axbridge deals. I looked at it
and made the obligatory, "wow, this is neat," oohs and aahs (although by
that time I was into partial mashing). Not being incredibly excited about
brewing it, I finally got around to it so that the thing was ready by
Christmas Eve. I boiled my water and used recultured Wyeast Whitbread
ale. I ran the water through a wort chiller and made about 3/4 quart of
yeast starter which was pitched at high krausen.
In contrast to some of the results reported here earlier on this thing, the
brew actually is not bad tasting at all. And it's actually kind of neat to
have this bag in my garage, constantly cold and ready for the spurious
decision to have a beer (I'm not into kegging, but now I see why people
like it).
Anyhow, if any of you end up with one of these things this year, it can make
an OK beer as long as you don't follow the directions :-).
Mike Zen-tner
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 09:40:59 +0600
From: mgx@solid.ssd.ornl.gov
Subject: random musings
Here are some random thoughts I dreamed up this holiday season:
1. Could someone who was familiar with the discussion of the
importance of trub
removal before primary fermentation post me a summary of the
conclusions?
I remember glancing at the discussion as it was going on but
not paying a whole
lot of attention. If someone could point me to the HBD Issue
numbers that are
appropriate that would probably get me going.
2. Has anyone given any thought to modifing an Atlas (Marcato)
Pasta machine to
grinding grain? Having just received one for my birthday the
second thought
I had was that this thing would be great for grinding grain.
This machine has
6 inch wide, adjustable (in steps) rollers, is hand cranked
and cheap: Around
$35-45 in the discount stores around here. It appears that
all you would have to
do is take it apart and have your friendly machinist score the
rollers for you then
reassemble. Voila ... your very own adjustable roller mill
for under 50 bucks!
Maybe I should market them ...... Galloway Adjustable Roller
Mill .... it's gotta
good ring to it ....
3. A friend of mine (Hi Darrell!) made a batch of wheat beer from
100% wheat malt,
Ireks I think, anyway has anyone tried this? Is this a real
style? I can only recall
mixtures of malted wheat and barley (50/50, 60/40, etc.).
What is this stuff
gonna taste like?
4. Did anyone/everyone see the plug for Beers Across America in
the December issue
of Bon Apetit? It was in the column related to wines and
liquors.
Thats all from the wasteland.....
Michael D. Galloway
mgx@solid.ssd.ornl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 09:41:10 EST
From: todd@thoreau.nsc.com ( Todd Vafiades)
Subject: sincere sentiment
wow... it got kinda` hot in here....
Without wasting to much bandwidth (I can't wait until we
have some Gigabit WAN action so I can really burn it up)
My most sincere apologies to all in the HBD (even you Richard)
for my unruly, high temp behaviour. I felt (and feel) strongly
about those statements made by Richard Childers and I acted as
if it were a personal attack on me (which it did become, in time).
I'm just back after the short holiday season and I can't beleive
the level of turmoil. I can't help but feel partially responsible.
I've given myself 50 electronic lashes... (felt kinda' good, actually)
best regards and happy new year!!! Todd
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 14:19 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571@mcimail.com>
Subject: Is lactic acid ok to put in finished beer?
Can lactic acid be used in finished beer to produce a tart flavor? Recent
posts have discussed using it for dropping the ph of sparge water, and
one report discussed the use of a lactobacillus to drop the overall ph
of Celis White beer (the beer is subsequently pasteurized and re-innoculated
with the original yeast for bottle conditioning).
I've been thinking of both white beers and Belgian-style red/brown
beers that have a fruity tartness, and it occurred to me to try adding the
acid. I'd prefer this to the Papazian method for souring beer, as the latter
method is less controllable and might introduce other, undesirable flavors.
I'd therefore be most grateful for any comments on the following:
1) Is adding lactic acid to beer at, say, bottling time a safe practice?
(I'm a historian, and admit to knowing nothing about chemicals)
2) Is adding lactic acid likely to produce a desirable effect? If so,
in what quantity?
3) Has anybody tried this yet? How 'bout the Papazian method?
Please send any responses to me directly by e-mail, and if there is
a sufficient quantity of information I'll post the compiled results. Thanks
very much for your help!
Phil Seitz
PSEITZ@MCIMAIL.COM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 8:50:14 CST
From: raudins@galt.b11.ingr.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: WARNING: Supplier knows ALL!
I would like to share an experience I had with a brewing supply shop over
the holidays:
I visited a supply shop in Bedford, Ohio (across from Tim Lally
Chevy). Dropping by, I noticed that the proprietor didn't take notice of
me entering his store. (Not normal for brewing stores in my book.) I asked
if he carried his grain uncrushed. Low and behold, he became God-Emperor
brewer on the spot. He told me there was no reason to crush my own. He
proceeded to state that the micro-brewer that taught me to brew didn't know
diddly. I won't even quote his attacks. All I can sat is that I have never
felt such contempt for a member of the brewing community in my life. I
noticed that he was wearing a sweatshirt that said, Society of Northeast
Ohio Brewers (I believe). If he is a member of this organization, I pity
the members, if not, if I were a member I would ask him not wear it any more.
The reason I relay this is that people that were with me, now, have
a poor impression of brewers. I feel people like this do a large
dis-service to the hobby/"way of life".
I would like to urge you not to frequent this shop but I won't. I
will just pass this message along as a warning.
Glenn Raudins
raudins@galt.b11.ingr.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 08:58:32 -0500
From: blosskf@ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss)
Subject: Good brewpubs in ????
I don't want to beat this topic into the ground, and perhaps this is already
being done, but why not compile a listing of *good* brewpubs in the archives.
Then, people can be directed there first; if the city they're looking for
is not there, then go to the HBD. I had asked about Boston and Pittsburgh
and received oodles of great info from people who seemed willing to give it.
I had a much better time there because of it, so I don't think these posts
seeking brewpub info should be abrogated entirely. (IMHO)
-Karl
(blosskf@ttown.apci.com)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 11:20:32 EST
From: roman@tix.timeplex.com (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Carbonation in a fermenter?
Chip Hitchcock writes:
> or bottle---does anyone around here know enough about CO2 solubility vs
> temperature to estimate what [partial] pressure is necessary to keep, e.g.,
> 2 volumes of CO2 dissolved in beer at room temperature?.
According to my handy Volumes of CO2 in beer chart (ftp'able from
sierra.stanford.edu), at 60 degrees F it takes 15 PSI to give you 2
volumes of CO2. At 35 degrees F it takes 5 PSI. 2 volumes of CO2 is at
the low end of carbonation. You're not going to get acceptable levels
of carbonation using an airlock of any kind, you need a pressure vessel
(which a glass carboy is not) with some type of gas metering device. I
like the soda keg approach with a pressure gauge attached. If the
pressure gets too high you can always vent some off manually. I have no
idea what an adjustable pressure relief valve would cost. I've found
when kegging and carbonating beer in soda kegs I don't have to worry
about, I just relax and let the yeast do it's stuff without
intervention. What started this thread anyway? :-)
Oh yeah, in a recent digest someone asked the relationship between
volume vs weight of alcohol, the ratio is 1.25 and has little to do with
beer style. Alcohol weighs the same and takes up the same volume no
matter what kind of beer you put it in. :-)
- --
_________
Dan Roman GEnie: D.ROMAN1 Internet: roman@tix.timeplex.com //
Ascom Timeplex (NJ) Homebrew is better brew! Only AMIGA! \X/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 11:36:43 -0500
From: parsons1@husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Adjuncts
I have brewed a batch of mead to which I added two oz. ginger (steep 15 min),
and the taste is imperceptible. I have more recently brewed a winter warmer
with three oz. ginger (steep 1 min), and the taste is overpowering. Who can
tell me how much grated ginger to add to a batch so that it tastes good?
I read Saml. Childers' piece "Every Man his own Brewer" (ca. 1650), which
discusses the use of more adjuncts than any modern book I have read. He
even tells you how many whole eggs to put in your barrels in order to pre-
serve the beer while it is being shipped to India. His book does not, how-
ever, tell you what quantity of each herb to add. Occasionally, proportions
such as the 'modicum' or the 'fistful' are suggested, but that is not very
helpful. Has anyone done a lot of experimenting with adjuncts? It's not
too late to brew a funky porter for the spring.
Jed parsons1@husc.harvard.edu
Harpsichordist, Classicist, Homebrewer apud aedificium scribebam Sacerdotis
ad cerevisiam coquendam exstructum.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:29:36 +0600
From: mgx@solid.ssd.ornl.gov
Subject: more random thoughts
One more to go with the four above:
I've managed to acquire somewhat limited access to a bio lab with
the associated
microscopes and ph meters etc. I am curious as to what beer/wine/other
fermented
products should look like under 100-500 X magnification. Can I see yeast
at this level?
What about bacteria and other nasties? Also, what are appropriate ph's for
unfermented
wort and finished beer/wine/mead/etc.??? Any thoughts along these lines
would be
greatly appreciated.
Michael D. Galloway
mgx@solid.ssd.ornl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 15:56:18 CDT
From: smanastasi@mmm.com
Subject: Hot-side Aeration / Laaglander high FG experiment
My wife bought me all six episodes of the "Beer Hunter" on video
tape (what a wife!). Both of us have had fun watching them especially
since we are planning a trip to Bavaria this summer.
During Micheal's visit to a lambic brewery in Belgium, they showed
the hot wort coming out into cooling boxes. These boxes had
screens on the bottom that allowed the wort to fall through and
splash about cooling the wort. The first thing that I thought of
was "Wow, that's a lot of hot-side aeration". The technique runs
counter to the article on aeration in the latest Zymurgy. Then again,
the same brewery used wild yeasts and other loosely controlled
processes.
In general after watching the Beer Hunter, I was struck by two main
observations. Europeans (at least the ones in the show) appreciate
their beer and beer is of an artform higher than the belching
retired sports stars swilling cheap chemical slurries that are
portrayed in America (or all of the beer=sex implications).
The second was that most of these brewers aren't nearly as anal about
sanitation around the fermenting wort as I am. Maybe its due to the
extremely high amount of yeast that must be growing in 5000 liters
of beer. Guys were sticking there heads in lagering tanks, walking
above open fermentation vessels, etc.
Now onto my second topic, that of my high FG with Laaglander dried
malt extract.
I posted a few weeks ago about a batch that finished at 1030. Briefly,
I used 8 lbs Laaglander and Wyeast 1056 (plus hops). The OG was
1063.
I was reluctant to bottle at 1030 so I have done the following with
little success. (actions listed in order).
- tried several times to rouse the yeast by turning the carboy
- added a new bulged packet of Wyest 1056 (ouch, $4 down).
- Racked again and re-oxygenated
(by this time, my batch turned into an experiment in high FG)
- Added yeast nutrients (hydrated in cooled boiled water)
- Add amylase enzyme (hydrated in cooled boiled water)
At this point, the SG was 1028 to 1029, so the effect of all this
was negligble. Plus, 3 weeks passed from my first attempt
to my last - so I wasn't rushing it.
Last night I threw in some Saaz hops to at least give a hoppy
aroma to an already hoppy brew that may turn out undrinkable.
After this experiment, what is my final analysis?
1) I will NEVER use all dried malt extract again.
2) My problems may have been exacerbated by a lack of cold-side
aeration. (This was my 8th extract batch and the first that
did not finish correctly - and I use approximately the same
technique.)
3) Move to all grain this winter to avoid low nutrient batches. Plus
I will then be doing full boils (lack of carmelization) and I
will use a wort chiller (enabling better cold-side aeration).
Sorry to go on for so long. Many people responded to my original post
about high FG asking for a summary - so here you are.
One last thing - let's stop all this useless arguing over non
brewing issues. This USED to be far better than rec.crafts.brewing
and its really been slipping.
- ------------
Steve Anastasi
St. Paul, MN
smanastasi@mmm.com
(612) 733-6970
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 14:11:07 PST
From: cole%nevis6.hepnet@Lbl.Gov
Subject: Stuck Ferment, temperature, Co2 in beer
Hello all. I thought I would describe my experience with a batch of
Pumpkin ale I started in November which combines many topics under
discussion recently here in the HBD. I wanted to make it for the
holidays but started late because I was very busy.
Crude recipe:
2 small pumpkins (sorry no weight - roughly 6" diameter)
2# pale malt (US 6-row)
1# crystal malt
Pressure cooked pumpkin till mushy (8 min under full pressure
I think). Step mashed with protein rest for 45 min, starch
conversion step at approx 152 degrees f, 1-1/2 hours for
complete conversion. Sparged.
Added water to bring total volume to approx 6 gallons, added:
5# light malt extract, boiling hops, some cinnamon, etc...
Boiled for 60 minutes, added finishing hops, chilled, racked to
carboy, pitched 1/2 liter starter culture of Wyeast European ale.
Final volume 5 gal. Original gravity 1.060 (+/- .002).
Lag time 8-10 hours.
24 hours after pitching the fermentation was going like gangbusters.
Very little blowoff but I have never seen such an active ferment in
my previous 10 batches. This activity continued for 4 days until the
weekend during which I was away. Over the weekend the temperature
outside dropped 30-40 degrees and the temperature inside my apartment
dropped from 65-66 to 58-60 degrees. When I came home and checked the
beer it looked like the yeast had flocculated en mass. There was dried
yeast all over the carboy, up the blowoff tube (this for a batch that
hadn't really been blowing off) and absolutely no activity whatsoever.
I racked to secondary and after several days there was still no
activity. I then raised my apartment thermostat to 64 degrees and
after several more days saw some minimal signs of activity. The first
gravity reading after racking was 1.032 and after another week and
a half, the gravity had only dropped to 1.027.
At this point, I started to worry and tried adding some oak chips
(boiled 20 minutes to remove the oak flavor) per the sugestion in
one of the recent digests. This seemed to increase the activity,
(I'm not talking about the inital precipitation of Co2 out of
solution, but the activity a day after adding the oak chips), but
after another week or so the gravity had only dropped to 1.022.
As a last resort, I made a starter from the dregs of three bottles of
bitter I had made using the Wyeast Whitbread strain, pitched this
into the ale and left for the holidays. When I returned two days ago
I was gratified to see substantial activity (i.e. Co2 bubbles rising)
and though I haven't yet check the gravity, it appears that the
new yeast is now finishing the ferment.
I suspect the flocculation of the yeast was caused by the drop in
temperature. The fact that the second yeast addition re-started
fermentation suggests that the flocculation was so efficient that
there was just not enough yeast to do the job, though this seems a
little hard to believe. If I remember correctly, Whitbread is more
attenuative than the European Ale, but I can't believe the European
ale yeast would quit above 1.020, and certainly not slow down so
much at 1.032. Given that the mash was done at a fairly low
temperature, I would expect the beer to be more fermentable than
average so I would expect a FG of 1.010 or so. However, I have no
idea what the enzymes in malt do with pumpkin starch.
Morals: Beware of sudden temperature changes. I wonder how many of the
stuck ferments reported in this digest are caused by such
rapid changes in inside temp.
Watch that fermentation temps. for ale yeasts do not drop too
low. I was surprised by a comment by Jack S. the other day
which said that 55-58 is a typical temperature range. Maybe for
lagers, but not for ale yeasts.
Beware of using Co2 bubbles to gauge activity. The addition of
the oak chips seemed to indicate an increase in activity, but I
bet they simply caused more of the yeast-produced co2 to come
out of solution. I imagine that if I had waited long enough
after racking (sans chips) the slow activity would have
eventually saturated the the co2 capacity of the liquid and
would have shown the same activity level as with chips.
REMEMBER that CO2 will only come out of the beer when the
liquid has been saturated or when precipitated by racking,
addition of hops etc...
Homebrew provides a useful source of yeast in an emergency. I
feel stupid for not trying this sooner. Of course, there's the
worry about contamination, but with a difficult batch, what the
h*ll.
The above morals will probably be obvious to the more experienced
brewers, but hopefully they will be useful to somebody out there.
I will let everyone know how this batch turns out when it's done. If
it is worth it, I will post the real recipe. Sorry for the long post.
Happy New Year to all.
Brian Cole
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 17:12:39 EST
From: BOKENKAM@ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Holiday cheer for Winters
Rob Winters (rwinters@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov) writes in HB 1043:
>Clearly,this is no longer my forum, and I'm outta here. Call me
>if you guys get to be fun to drink with again. I'm much more
>likely to visit a brewpub than countersue Boston Beer, brew
>hectolitre batches, culture yeast, or autoclave *anything*. Not
>that these aren't noble pursuits, but I *have* a life *and* a
>career, and I don't need another. Thanks for all the good info.
>It's been fun, mostly.
>
>Are we lawyers? Are we protecting trademarks? Are we busting
>monopolies? Are we professional chemists and microbiologists?
>Are we professional brewers? I thought this forum was for HOME
>brewers and BEER enthusiasts. How many recipes have been in the
>last 10 digests?
Gee, the holidays sure are hard on some people... For recipes,
Rob, I would suggest that you try downloading Cat's Meow 2. I
found more recipes there than I could use in a lifetime of
brewing. Meanwhile, though I am a cheap sonofabitch and brew all
of my batches in a Rubbermaid (c) picnic cooler, I have learned a
thing or two from the "professional chemists and microbiologists"
who inhabit this net. Thanks to Tom Leith and Jack Schmidling, I
now know how to compute my extraction rates. The thread on
sparging, passed through many hands, has been immensely helpful.
Bob Jones' stout *is* drinkable after only a week (though I
suspect it will get better) but the jury is still out on Todd
Enders' "perfect brew" (which is to say I have been too lazy to
figure out the PH of my sparge-water, but I did try recirculating
it and the extraction rate was superior to my previous tries).
And, thanks to Rob Thomas, I have begun to experiment with
multiple-mashing techniques and have found that some version of
this old solution may be perfect for my cheap set-up and slovenly
ways. Yeah, I do not understand half of the science, but I do
learn something, in my simple way (some of us know more Chinese
than microbiology). Meanwhile, my guests and I have enjoyed
drinking up all of my "experiments." You can't always get what
you want here, but sometimes you get what you need. (Hmmm.
That's catchy, I should write a Christmas song.)
You are right about Childers' posting, but don't let it drive you
away. The holiday season will pass... Meanwhile, if you ever
find yourself in Bloomington, Indiana, I can recommend only one
place to drink. C'mon over.
- --Steve, ((sorry, no pretty pictures))
------------------------------
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:18:57 MST (Wed)
From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: pondering small-brewery tactics (it ain't that bad!)
Jacob Galley <gal2@midway.uchicago.edu> writes about "Koch's sleaze in
perspective". He relates some dark tales told by a Baderbrau person,
then:
> Anyway, I can imagine what a hard time the BBC is having holding what
> ever ground they've gained in spite of the megabreweries' megastoopid
> marketing techniques (that work! -- pitiful)...
No apologies for what the large brewers do...after all, they advertise in a
way that reaches the mass market, and it's not too hard to see what works,
whether you're selling beer, burgers, perfume, or cars. Fine, but...
> ...With this in mind, I do (when in a good mood) have a quantum
> (not more) of sympathy for Jim Koch. Sam Adams beers are a major force
> in the current American Beer Enlightenment. In this day and age, Koch
> would not have been as successful as he is without using pushy,
> sleazeball Big Business strategies...
Let us agree that Koch is succeeding, but let us consider whether his
techniques are really necessary.
Let's think from a different angle. What's the most successful small
(non-mega) brewery, long-term? Easy: Anchor. What's the character of
their advertising, and how much do they advertise? Easy again: to a first
approximation, they don't advertise. Why not? They don't need to; they
can't meet the demand as it is.
OK, how about another one of the long-term successes in small breweries:
Sierra Nevada? Again, almost no advertising; they don't need it.
The stable of either of these is far more idiosyncratic in taste than BBC.
But hold on! If it takes major marketing to get people to buy a beer with
the amount of taste in (say) Samuel Adams Boston Lager, compared to the
mega-breweries (admittedly a significant difference), how can Anchor's
Liberty Ale, or Sierra Nevada's Celebration possibly stand a chance of
selling? Yet they do.
Hypothesis: flavor*advertising is a constant.
Opinion: Koch may not be as bad as the megas, but he provides no model for
a good micro.
_ _ _ _ _
Oh, while I'm at it...Mike Fetzer asks:
Subject: re: % alcohol by weight vs. by volume
> How do I compute %alcohol by weigh in terms of %alcohol by volume...
I'll add a second question, namely "how do I remember this on the fly,
after n beers, when I'm trying to {discuss;write down} a point?"
Remember that alcohol is lighter than water. (mnemonic: alcohol will burn;
it's a lighter fluid:-) The magic number is 0.8, or 4/5: Alcohol is about
4/5 the density of water; therefore %wt is about 4/5 %vol.
So, given Mike's example of 6%wt, that would be roughly 7.5% volume.
---
Dick Dunn rcd@eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Mr. Natural says, "Use the right tool for the job."
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1044, 12/30/92
*************************************
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