Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1024
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 92/12/02 01:12:58
HOMEBREW Digest #1024 Wed 02 December 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Lots of Commercial Beers - Where to Buy - D.C. Area (919) 541-7340" <FP$JEFF@RCC.RTI.ORG>
Weird Yeast Starter (Alan B. Carlson)
Yeast Bank help (Al Richer)
glass blow-off tubes (dave ballard)
Bees and Boston ("Daniel F McConnell")
Carbonating Mead (GREG PYLE)
pumps ("Daniel F McConnell")
St. Louis HB supplys (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Baderbrau stock (STROUD)
Belgian malts (KLIGERMAN)
Removing Chlorine (Paul dArmond)
diacetyl ("C. Lyons")
RE: Wyeast 2112, counter pressure bottling (James Dipalma)
Need someone to critique my beer? (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Gale Seed Source (James Spence)
Plastic boilers (Andrius Tamulis)
Mash Thickness (Jack Schmidling)
SN clone recipes, fruitiness revisited (Rob Bradley)
Brew Pot (jason)
What exactly is oxidation? (Bruce Hoylman)
Mashing & sparging from Micah Millspaw ("Bob Jones")
boiling in plastic (Bill Fuhrmann)
Sprecher Beer from Milwaukee (Kevin Krueger)
leaving the trub in your wort (John Fitzgerald)
Brew Bees (chris campanelli)
tall dorm fridges for temp control (MIKE LELIVELT)
can I rescue this batch? (David L. Kensiski)
WYEAST 2112 - Problems Solved (Murray Robinson)
Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
(Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu**
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 01 Dec 1992 08:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jeff McCartney (919) 541-7340" <FP$JEFF@RCC.RTI.ORG>
Subject: Lots of Commercial Beers - Where to Buy - D.C. Area
A few weeks ago, TOTAL BEVERAGE opened its doors in Chantilly, Virginia (20
miles west of DC out Route 66). It has over 400 different brands of beer!
Here is a sampling of their inventory:
Black Mountain (AZ) Chile Pepper Beer $10.45/6-pack
Samiclaus $17.50/6-pack
Dominion Lager $4.25/6-pack
Anchor Steam/Porter $5.25/6-pack
Dinkel Acker Octoberfest $5.99/6-pack
Market Street (Nashville, TN) pilsner
EKU 28
Peach and Raspberry Lambic
Many Chimays, ??boams of Belgian ale, anything imaginable!
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 14:55:56 +0100
From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc@cs.chalmers.se>
Subject: Weird Yeast Starter
I started a yeast culture the other day. Took the dregs of two bottles
of homebrew from a batch of beer that was brewed with first generation
Wyeast Bohemian pilsener. The "wort" I used was a approximately a pint
of water and a little less than a half a pound of granulated sugar that
was boiled for 5 minutes. When it cooled I threw in a teaspoon of yeast
nutrient as well. The day after the starter was starting to bubble, I
noticed some almost clear agglomerations floating at the top of the
wort. Some of the same stuff was in suspension as well as lying on the
bottom. The stuff reminded me of the meat of a lemon (you know, floating
around in ice tea) although it is absolutely colorless. The gas
emanating from the airlock smelled like yeast.
Yesterday, I threw the stuff out since I didn't want to waste a batch of
beer not knowing whether it was an infection or not. Before chucking the
stuff into the sink, I poured the starter into a glass. The
agglomerations that were present before dissolved completely. Not a
trace of them in the glass.
Can a starter look like this without being infected? Can it be some sort
of bacterial contamination or or can it be the yeast nutrient? I've
never seen a bacterial infection before so I have no idea what one looks
like. The brew that I cultivated the starter from was the first batch
I've done with liquid yeast and the starter I used then sure didn't look
like this last one.
Alan
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan B. Carlson Phone: +46 31 772 10 73
Chalmers University of Technology UUCP: alanc@cs.chalmers.se
Department of Computer Sciences
S-412 96 Gothenburg
SWEDEN
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 8:41:49 EST
From: richer@desi.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Al Richer)
Subject: Yeast Bank help
Having had indifferent results when trying to freeze cultures for
reuse, I resorted to buying a bottle of Freeze Shield from the Yeast
Bank folks. (At $2.and change, I figured it was cheap enough for an
experiment.)
Unfortunately, I neglected to read the instruction sheet with one of
the Yeast Bank kits to check the mix concentration with active wort.
Would some kind soul be so good as to forward me this information, as
well as a quick-and-dirty on the procedure?
ajr
------------------------------
Date: 1 Dec 1992 9:19 EST
From: dab@donner.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: glass blow-off tubes
Hey now- I saw an ad somewhere (I think the new Zymurgy) for glass
blow-off tubes. The ad claims (and i agree) that glass is easier to
clean than plastic so you don't need to do as much work to get all
the gunk out. I currently use a 1" i.d. tube that works really well
but is a total bitch to clean, especially after a particularly violent
batch.
Has anyone seen or used one of these glass tubes?
thanks
dab
=========================================================================
dave ballard
dab@cc.bellcore.com
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 1 Dec 1992 09:33:40 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell@med.umich.edu>
Subject: Bees and Boston
Subject: Time:9:30 AM
OFFICE MEMO Bees and Boston Date:12/1/92
Bob Jones writes:
>I have noticed that bees seem to find their way into my garage when I brew.
>I especially notice them after the wort is boiling. Anyone else notice this?
Yes, I've had bee problems during the summer, but I notice it mostly when
mashing and sparging, attracted by the sugars. A few have been lost in the
boil (worker bee ale?) and fished out. I have also noticed that when the sky
becomes overcast the bees go away. I've never been stung though, so I assume
that they approve of my efforts. Try making perry in the fall if you are
thrilled by the prospect of happy bees crawling on you (just don't let them
down your shirt collar or up your pant leg).
On another note- I am flying to Boston this weekend. I'm not sure where I will
be staying-somewhere near Harvard/Mass. Gen. Hosp., I assume. What are the
beer-highlights of the area, assuming that I can escape for some free time? I
have been to Commonwealth and will try to return. Are there any other (or new)
brewpubs within subway distance? Any interesting (rare) imports that are not
available elsewere (Michigan)?
Thanks for the help.
DanM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 09:43 EST
From: GREG PYLE <S1400067@NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: Carbonating Mead
Hello,
I have just brewed my first batch of mead. So far, I have racked it twice.
I know that traditional mead is uncarbonated, however, I thought that
carbonating it might be a nice touch. I got to thinking that if the yeast
is all dead (and assumably it is, since the alcoholic content is in the order
of 12-13%) and all of the suspended yeast has settled out, how will the mead
carbonate if I simply prime with corn sugar at bottling time? My questions
are as follows:
1) Should I carbonate the mead and if so how?
2) Does all of the yeast settle out? What happens in the carboy?
3) Is the alcoholic strength of the mead too strong to support any yeast
activities?
Thank you,
Greg.
Laurentian University
Sudbury, Ontario
------------------------------
Date: 1 Dec 1992 09:54:55 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell@med.umich.edu>
Subject: pumps
Subject: Time:9:51 AM
OFFICE MEMO pumps Date:12/1/92
More on wort pumps:
I use a Teel model 1P760A hot water booster pump. About $60 (Granger). It
works well for transfer of hot sparge water. I'm a little concerned about
transfer of cold wort to fermentation vessels, unless you knock the thing down
and sanitize the impeller assembly. The only problem that I have encountered
is that it does not pump boiling water well. It tends to form an airlock above
95C even when well primed. I'm also happier transfering hot wort by gravity
because the impeller seems rather abusive.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 09:08:33 -0600
From: trl@photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: St. Louis HB supplys
There are two St. Louis HB Suppliers I know of.
IMO Homebrew & Meadery Supply,
Roy Rudebusch, Proprieter
2901 Hallmark Lane 63125
St. Louis, MO
314/487-2130
I do most of my business here. Roy brews great beer, and is very helpful. IMO
is in South St. Louis County, near I-55 and Lindbergh Blvd.
St. Louis Wine & Beermaking
Koelle B. Paris, Proprietor
251 Lamp & Lantern Village
Chesterfield, MO 63017
314/230-8277
These folks have a bigger selection than Roy has. Lots of gadgets. I haven't
talked with them long enough to tell whether they're as knowledgeable as Roy.
They're out in West St. Louis County, at Clayton and Woods Mill Rd.
I'm sure if you call `em both, they'd be happy to send you their catalog and
price-list. If you trek up to St. Louis, be sure to check out the Tap Room,
St. Louis' ONLY brewbup.
Standard disclaimers apply.
t
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 10:18 EST
From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA@leia.polaroid.com>
Subject: Baderbrau stock
James P. Buchman asks about buying shares of Baderbrau.
There was some chatter about it on Compuserve a few months ago. It is (or at
least was) on NASDAQ under BRAU. Art Steinmetz did some digging around about
Baderbrau's financial situation and posted the following:
*********************
From: Art Steinmetz/NYC 76044,3204
I just pulled up some stats on BRAU on my handy-dandy screen.
Pavichevich Brewing has yet to make a profit. The stock has been trading, I
think, since 10/89 although the company has financial results going back to
1987. The stock price ran up to 6-1/4 in 4/90 and promptly crashed to 1-1/2 by
the following Jan. It's quoted between 2-1/2 and 2-3/4 for the last year. Price
action is non-existant. Volume is invisible. 1.56mm shares outstanding.
In October 1990 they defaulted on bonds they issued and owe $250k in back
interest on those.
They owe $1.25mm to Steel City National Bank of Chicago.
As of this Jan. they were in a capital crisis since operating revenue was
insufficient to meet operating needs. They were trying to arrange $1.5mm
through a sale-leasback of the equipment. Didn't happen. Around June they
raised $426,000 in a private placement of stock. They're still up to their
eyeballs in debt. Total liabilities are $2.3mm vs. assets of $2.7mm as of
1992Q1. They must have some more debt somewhere 'cuz my screen shows a negative
book value for the stock of $-0.20 per share.
Sales in the quarter ending April 30 were $227,000 vs. $237,000 previously. Beer
unit sales were up 6% but prices declined pursuant to their distribution deal
resulting in the drop in revenues.
Paterno Imports Ltd. has been their national distributor since June 1991.
They're hanging on by a thread. Caveat Emptor.
**********************
I'll bet that a lot of US micros are in similar shape........
- --Steve
------------------------------
Date: 01 Dec 1992 11:09:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN@herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: Belgian malts
Iv'e been reading in the HBD lately how wonderful Belgian malts are, but
my local homebrew supplier doesn't stock them. Can anyone either E-mail
or post locations close to North Carolina where I can purchase these
malts? Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 07:57:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Removing Chlorine
My brewing water comes off a private water association. I went in to the
county health department to get a water analysis, just out of curiosity.
The analysis was just puzzling, all of the substances tested for were low,
but the total dissolved solids was 450 ppm! No idea what the unknown
goobers in the water are, but the district is out of compliance...
Anyway, I'm talking with my friend who works there and telling her about
my homebrewing... I ask her about the chlorine levels, since I know the
water association has been docked for not controlling it properly. I've
been concerned about getting the chlorine out of my mash and sparge water,
so I've been boiling it beforehand. She tells me that boiling only
removes chlorination by pure chlorine gas! Our water association uses
sodium hypochlorite (bleach). This is not removed by boiling. She says
that hypochlorite can be removed by two methods: exposure to sunlight and
evaporation, and adding sodium thiosulphate (photographic hypo).
Setting my water out for a couple of days is not real practical (among
other things, I live in NW Washington state, so we won't see any UV for
another seven or eight months...), and I don't really want to add hypo to
my beer. Ick!
The other thing that I learned is that there are three ways to chlorinate
water: gaseous chlorine, sodium hypochlorite, and chloramine (sp?). I don't
know anything about chloramine, but my friend tells me that it is a more
stable form of chlorine compound. She also tells me that < 4ppm chlorine
has little or no purifying effect, and > 8ppm is too much and will taste
of chlorine. Supposedly, if it is done right, you can't taste the
chlorine... We always have a strong taste of chlorine in the water and
2 out of 3 beer judges tell me I have phenols in my beer (sob...)
Does anybody know:
1) What are the reaction products of sodium hypochlorite and sodium
thiosulphate, and is this safe in beer? (I suspect not...)
2) What will remove the chlorine from my water?
Thankz,
Paul.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 09:24 EST
From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS@adc3.adc.ray.com>
Subject: diacetyl
>I have a problem with diacetyl in a recent batch I made. Here are the
>specifics:
> * recipe was the extract based Kolsch recipe in Dave Miller's
> "Brewing the World's Great Beers."
> * yeast was Wyeast European Ale (I can never remember the numbers)
> * the F.G. was higher than expected (1.017) but seemed about right
> given the minimum attenuation specified in the yeast profiles
> from Wyeast.
> * bottled on 30 Oct.; stored at about 60 deg. F
> * 1 week later, carbonation was fine and tasted fine to the best of
> my recollection (a little sweet though)
> * started cold conditioning at 40 deg F on ~8 Nov.
> * tasted on ~22 Nov and there was a pronounced butter flavor.
>
>My question, naturally, is what do I do?
>
>I have read about diacetyl rests at ~70 deg F but they all seem to be at
>the END OF THE SECONDARY, not in the bottle after a couple of weeks of
>cold-conditioning.
>
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
I also had a diacetyl problem. I believe Miller advocates doing
the diacetyl rest in the primary after fermentation subsides.
Something to do with the lack of oxygen causing the yeast to
absorb the diacetyl (speeded up with a temperature boost). If
you rack to the secondary before the diacetyl rest, then some oxygen
will be introduced and prevent the absorption of the diacetyl.
My current fermentation schedule is (for ales):
1) 3 day primary fermentation at 65F.
2) 2 day diacetyl rest at 70F in the primary.
3) 7 to 21 days in secondary (in the coldest part of the
house) for clearing & dry hopping.
I haven't tasted any of the batches since switching to this
schedule, but I'm hoping that this schedule solves my diacetyl
problem. I did notice the strong butter-scotch odor eminating from
the air lock disappear during the diacetyl rest period.
Christopher Lyons
LYONS@ADC3.ADC.RAY.COM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 12:10:13 EST
From: dipalma@banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Wyeast 2112, counter pressure bottling
Hi All,
In HBD 1023, Rob Bradley asks:
>I'm planning an Anchor Steam clone. I welcome any hopping suggestions
>that have been tested, including unconventional ones.
Quite some time ago, someone posted to HBD describing a tour they
had taken of the Anchor brewery in San Francisco. This post went
into such detail that it sounded like a report from an industrial
espionage mission. The poster reported that Anchor uses Northern
Brewer for bittering and Hersbrucker for aroma. According to Fred
Eckhardt, the bittering level is 40 IBUs. Anchor Steam(tm) :-)
also has a considerable hop nose to it, so dry-hopping is indicated.
Rob also asks:
>Has anyone else had the same problems Murray Robinson experienced with
>WYeast 2112? Maybe I'll have to change my weekend brewing plans :-(
Re-reading Murray's post(HBD 1022), my interpretation is that he
was using liquid yeast for the first time, and was concerned that the
*starter* was not showing much of a krausen.
Murray didn't specify the gravity of his starter, but my
understanding is that starters with a gravity of 1.020-1.025 won't
display much of a krausen. I've used liquid yeast exclusively for
the past year or so, with starters of that gravity, and have never
gotten the large krausen one normally associates with primary
fermentation. At most, I see a small ring of bubbles around the edge
of the liquid, and some bubbles coming up through the solution, yet
I've always gotten good vigorous fermentations using these starters.
Coincidentally, I used Wyeast 2112 to brew an Anchor Steam(tm) clone
this weekend. The temperature in my basement is 58-60, I pitched
the yeast mid-afternoon, when I checked it just before bedtime there
was foam forming on top and bubbles in the airlock. Looks good so far,
so my advice to Murray and Rob is to relax.
Also in HBD 1023, an interesting discussion between Al and Jack on
counter-pressure bottling and carbonation.
Until recently, I was one of those people who bottled from the keg
without a counter pressure bottle filler. Several HBDs ago, I posted
a procedure for doing that which involved chilling the bottles and
filling right to the top. These steps are an attempt to minimize the
CO2 passing out of solution due to the pressure drop that occurs
when the beer comes out of the tap.
A few weeks ago, I obtained a counter pressure filler, and I've
noticed the same phenomena that Jack reported. Beers bottled with
the counter pressure filler are much better carbonated than those
bottled straight from the tap. I agree with Al's conclusion that
counter pressure fillers minimize the loss of CO2 by keeping the
beer under pressure during the whole transfer process.
Another advantage of the counter pressure fillers is that the
bottle can be purged of oxygen prior to filling. When bottling
straight from the tap, the presence of oxygen in the bottle assures
some amount of oxidation will occur, regardless of how quietly the
bottle is filled. If the beer is going to be consumed within a short
period of time, this may not be significant. However, if the beer
is to be kept for several weeks, or submitted to a competition, I`d
recommend a counter pressure filler.
One more anecdotal point about the filling straight from the tap
method, it's not exactly foolproof. Some months ago, I went to a
friend's house to help him bottle some beer from his keg. He had used
forced carbonation, and had gone a little overboard, as he kept the
beer under 40 psi at 40F. The beer was so highly carbonated, it
foamed violently as soon as it hit the end of the tap, making it
impossible to fill a bottle. After about 30 minutes of trying, all
we had achieved was an incredible mess, one-half gallon of homebrew
sitting in a catch basin, another half-gallon sprayed about his cellar
floor, six bottles half-filled with foam, and two very chagrined
homebrewers.
Cheers,
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 08:31:28 -0600
From: trl@photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Need someone to critique my beer?
Mike Mahler (mm@workgroup.com) asks:
> I'd like to hopefully get someone to taste my beer to let me
> know what they think I could do to improve it if I also send
> along my brewing process.
I suggested that he may want to enter his beer in a competition. Then it dawned
on me that I haven't noticed competition information in the Digest. I don't
(yet) subscribe to Zymurgy, but I'm sure others out there do. I know, for
instance, that the St. Louis Brews club is having a competition in December.
The deadline for entering has passed, though. Anyway, what's the net.wisdom on
competition announcements in the Digest? Seems like it would be a good way to
increase participation...
t
------------------------------
Date: 01 Dec 92 12:33:46 EST
From: James Spence <70740.1107@compuserve.com>
Subject: Gale Seed Source
We have found the following source for those of you who have been looking for
sweet gale seeds to brew Pierre Rajotte's Belgian Ale recipe:
Desjardins Herboriste
3303 Ste. Catherine St. E.
Montreal, Quebec H1W 2C5
Tel: (514) 523-4860
Pierre says 250 grams is $3.56 plus shipping (Canadian dollars I assume). He
also says 250 grams is more than a lifetime supply. The recipe for Santa
Claus' Magic Potion calls for 1 gram of seeds.
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 13:02:17 EST
From: Andrius Tamulis <ATAMULIS@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Plastic boilers
In regard to Jeff's idea to install a heating element in a plastic
bucket and use that to mash/sparge/boil.
Well, I've got experience here. I've done just that. Twice. My suggestion
is not to do it.
I did this for mashing - nowhere near enough heat was produced for boiling.
(I boil on a stovetop, and even wimpy stoves put out more heat than
the element ever did) My experience with mashing in it was bad - the mash
was too hot near the element and too cold away from it, stir as I might.
Both of these Bruheat clones have been relegated to sparging duties, and
I now do the mash and boil on the stovetop.
As far as structural integrity, I made these 2-3 years ago and just recently
one sprang a leak around the spigot. No worries there!
In sum, I advise against.
andrius
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 09:30 CST
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Mash Thickness
To: Homebrew Digest
Fm: Jack Schmidling
After reading an interesting article on barleywine by Micah in the current
issue of the Celebrator, I bagan to wonder about the reasons for thick
mashes. He recommends using a megadose of malt in a mash of about normal
consistancy, to produce a high gravity wort without sparging. George Fix has
also written about the advantages of minimal sparging.
So I ask, why do we sparge at all? Why not just mash 10 lbs of malt in 10
gallons of water, drain it off and start boiling?
The search through my references was not very satisfying on the subject. It
seems that the most repeated reason is that the enzyme efficiency is reduced.
But like so many other "problems" that claim this as the evil, the solution
is to simply mash a little longer or use more malt.
Noonan goes one step further and says a "thick mash improves enzyme
performance. In a thin mash, proteolytic and other heat-labile enzymes are
destroyed in the course of the rest: in a thick mash, they may survive into
the saccharification range."
This makes no sense at all. It reads more like a description of the survival
rate of wildebeasts as a result of herding than of chemestry.
Can anyone support this legend with actual experience?
Sparging is a "simple" and efficient way of extracting the sugar from the
grain but all other things being equal, it would be more conveninent to use a
thin mash and just a small final sparge to rinse out anything left behind.
It would also greatly simplify that first plunge into all grain beer.
js
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 13:42:32 -0500
From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: SN clone recipes, fruitiness revisited
I posted in HBD 1021 about my Sierra Nevada clones and asked questions
about fruitiness. Some people have asked for recipes:
Pale Ale Porter
-------- ------
7 lb 7 lb UK 2-row pale ale malt (Munton & Fison)
1 lb 1/2 lb UK 2-row crystal malt ("Wine Inc." brand; Lovibond=?)
---- 1/2 lb UK 2-row chocolate malt ("Wine Inc.")
1 3/4 oz 1 oz Cascade flowers, 1 hour boil (all hops 5.5% alpha)
1 oz 1/2 oz Cascade flowers, 30 minute boil
1/2 oz 1/2 oz Cascade flowers, 15 minute boil
1/3 oz 1/2 oz Cascade flowers, add after boil & steep 15 minutes
1/5 oz 1/5 oz Cascade flowers, dry hops
Wyeast 1056 for both
1048 1050 Original gravity
1012 1014 Final gravity
Day 6 Day 6 Rack to secondary
No fining Day 7 Gelatine finings
Day 6 Day 8 Add dry hops
Day 12 Day 18 Bottle
Infusion mash: Strike with 2 gallons at 167F
Hold at 150F for 75 minutes
Mash-out at 172F.
Sparge with 4 gallons at 172F.
Brew length was slightly more than 5 gallons.
Exactly 5 gallons racked to secondary.
What I would change: For the porter, nothing :-)
For the pale ale, I would use Perle (as SN does) in the first hop
addition and fewer HBUs of it. 1 ounce of Perle at 7.6% was suggested
by Brian Batke. He also suggested Perle for the 30 minute addition.
Other notes: I like the effect of a 15 minute steep after the boil;
some might worry about DMS. Some would think 5 grams of dry hops
insufficient; perhaps I would use more if I didn't have the steeping
hops. The slightly higher yield from the same weight of grist in
the porter may be explained by a different grain bag (you may recall
I lost my Brew-bits bag)-:
Tony Babinec suggests that an all-Cascade pale ale of this sort is
more in the style of Liberty Ale. I agree, but I would add even
more boiling hops and finishing hops if I were trying to clone it.
Some have suggested that SN is not very fruity beer. I agree.
The fruitiness I was referring to was subtle. The beer in question
was about 60F. I had another SNPA this weekend. It had been in
the fridge and then left at room temp for 30 minutes (so <50F?)
and at that temperature, there was no evident fruitiness.
Plenty of hop aroma and maltiness, though.
Finally, I said in 1021 "Ultimately, fuitiness derives from the malt",
or words to that effect, your honor. By this, I never meant to
downplay the importance of yeast and temperature in ester production.
However, the chemical constituents of the esters don't fall from
the heavens, they come from the malt. I was only wondering if what
effect, if any, the malt might have on ester production.
Cheers,
Rob (bradley@adx.adelphi)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 92 11:41:38 -0800
From: jason@beamlab.ps.uci.edu
Subject: Brew Pot
With all the talk of cannibis and Hops:
Has anyone brewed a beer with Marijuana?
Throwing stems in for the whole boil seems like
the best bet.
I'm wondering if the seeds would secrete oils,
having not so nice effects on the head retention.
Any comments or recipes? Anyone made a funny smoked ale?
J
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 12:17:15 MST
From: Bruce Hoylman <bruce@advtech.uswest.com>
Subject: What exactly is oxidation?
I would like some information on what exactly is oxidation of wort and
what are the effects (both ill and otherwise) on the flavors of the
beer, how does it occur, how to avoid/prevent it, etc.
Also, now that I've got your attention here, I noticed a slight
metallic aftertaste on my last batch (a wheat). It was only barely
detectable, but definately there. What are some of the possible
culprits that might have given the beer this characteristic?
If you email me I can post a summary. Otherwise, whatever flips your
trigger.
Thanks for any input, and Peace.
- --
Bruce W. Hoylman (303-541-6557) -- bruce@advtech.USWest.COM
__o
-\<, "Please saw my legs off".
...O/ O...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 13:08:38 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones@novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Mashing & sparging from Micah Millspaw
Mashing/sparging problems?
>Causes I can think of are:
>1) strike temp was not high enough to gelatinize the starch
If this was actually the temp it should not be a problem, I've seen my
highest yeilds from lower temp mashes 148-50 F.
>2) the crush was actually too coarse (I WANT a roller-mill!!!! Santa???)
This is problably less than ideal but is not as likely a culprit as would
be a too fine crush.
>3) I should indeed have done a step-mash and raise the temp to 158 for 15 min.
at the end of the mash.
Yes, a mash out should help because it tends to get more sugars in solution
which makes for more effective sparging. I think that the mashing end of
grain brewing is less of a problem than the sparging side, but it gets the
blame anyhow.
>4) I sparges too fast.
This is possible but not usually a physical possibility.
>5) the mash was too tight. Miller recommends 1.33 quarts per pound.
> This was indeed the tightest mash I have yet done (Micah??? you say
> you usually use a rather tight mash.....)
What I consider a tight mash is 24oz water /pound grain and not to excede
32oz/lb in a normal mash. The stiffer the mash (with in reason), better
the more effective the enzyme activity. This also allows for more water
to be slated for use in the mash out and sparge without add to the total
amount of water used.
I would consider 1.3 qt/lb to be a very loose mash.
>6) As I said, this same sparging system has turned out 29-30 points, so I
> am pretty confident that I am not suffering from dead spots in the
> lauter-tun.
I would not change this system then, but I would look at changing the
allocation of your mashing/sparging water.
micah
>Put the wine (or dopple-bock!) into a shallow vessel and cool to 32F.
>Place ice cubes into it and drop the temp below freezing. The ice
>cubes will act as a nucleus and draw water to it. Pluck the enlarged ice
>cubes out and add more ice cubes.
I would just like to point out that any atempt to concentrate alcohol
by any means, including freezing is not legal in the USA. And that regardless
of the volumes involved, it carries the same property forfiture and penalties
as the manufacture of illegal drugs. So be careful with this topic.
Don't tempt the BATF!
micah
12/1/92
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 12:30:39 CST
From: fiero@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Bill Fuhrmann)
Subject: boiling in plastic
|Jeff Berton wrote
||How about using one of those food-grade plastic fermenting buckets
|with an electric heating element? This would be similar to the
If you have a plastic container that will stay structurally sound at
the proper boiling temperature (a little above the boiling point of
water because of disolved materials), you will have to be sure that
the element cannot come too close to the plastic.
|A quick experiment in which I filled my bucket with a couple of
|gallons of boiling water resulted in a slight softening of the
|plastic, but there were no alarming structural problems.
I would consider a slight softening with water that has started to
cool down from boiling as an alarming structural problem.
1. The temperature durring the boil will be a little higher.
2. A full batch will exert more force on the plastic than a couple
of gallons.
3. The boiling time is probably longer than your test.
If you are still intent on trying it, I'd suggest a test run using
the more water than you intend, adding salt to bring up the
specific gravity of the water above what you normally use, and
boiling for about twice as long. Maybe doing this whole test in
a bath or wash tub and watching it the whole time would give you
some confidence.
Bill Fuhrmann, aka fiero@pnet51.orb.mn.org
"You don't know what you've got till it's gone." - Joni Mitchell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 16:05:26 CST
From: krueger@comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Sprecher Beer from Milwaukee
I am in search of a recipe for one of my fvorite beers from Milwaukee . . .
Black Bavarian from Sprecher Brewery. I realize that there are so many
local breweries, but I am hoping that someone knows about this beer. I
would like to know what style of beer it is and how I might make some of
my own.
Gracios,
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: 1 Dec 92 10:35:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf@ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: leaving the trub in your wort
I know this has been covered before - about how the trub contains valuable
food for the yeast - but I ususally ignored the issue because I wanted to get
as much junk out of my beer as possible. So I usually siphon the cooled wort
from the brew pot to the primary, leaving the slimy stuff behind. But this
last batch I did something a little different.
I pitched the clear wort in primary with an 8 oz. starter of Wyeast European
Ale (1338) that was at full krausen. I then took the muddy layer of trub,
including lots of hops residue (from pellets), and transferred it into a
sterlized 2 litre soda-pop bottle. I had about 1/2 gallon of mud. I added a
few drops (8-10) of yeast that was left in the starter bottle, and placed the
muddy concoction under fermentation lock.
Ten hours later very differnt things were happening in the 2 'batches'. The
muddy half-gallon had separated into 1/3 sediment, 2/3 fermenting beer. The 5
gallons in primary hadn't done anything. The yeast came from the same source,
the wort came from the same source, the temps were all the same, the only
difference appears to be the trub contained in the half-gallon batch. I
didn't try to estimate the volumn of the 'few drops' of yeast, but it seems
that 8 oz in 5 gallons is a better ratio than 'few drops' in half-gallon.
My last experience with batch 1338 took 24 hours to show signs of
fermentation, but that was siphoned off the trub also. I ended up siphoning
the active wort off of the sediment, and into the non-active batch, and
sometime during the night the 5 gallon batch took off.
I'm not saying that this proves anything, but since I do 2-stage fermentation
anyways, I'm thinking of leaving any cold-break material, hop residue, etc.
all in primary and then siphoning off of it when going to secondary. I figure
I will be at higher risk for producing chill haze, but it might be worth it.
Any comments/advice would be appreciated.
John Fitzgerald
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 16:18 CST
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Brew Bees
Bob Jones brought up an interesting observation in regards to
bees and garage brewing. I too brew in the garage, not out of
choice but because of a fascist, anti-brewing female thing.
Well, that and maybe the Wave of Wort debacle, but I'm sure its
mostly the female thing.
I have bees visit when I brew. A lone bee will show up around
mid-mash, soon to be followed by its friends. By end of boil the
bees number about a dozen. They appear to like the wort and
things that come into contact with it. The stirring spoon,
thermometer and spent ph strips all get surreptitious
inspections. When wort drips on the floor, the bees fasten
around the droplets like spokes on a wheel. I assume its the
malt sugar they're after.
At first I thought having bees around while brewing was a bad
thing, what with sanitation and all that. I went so far as to
try to rid the garage of bees via a badminton racket. It became
a war of diminishing return and I soon gave up. Although the
bees never noticed me running around in circles swinging a
badminton racket, the neighbors sure did.
I once asked an entomologist friend about bees and brewing. He
went on and on about nectar, chemical receptors, wind direction,
sun elevation, hive dancing and food stores. All well and good I
guess. The next-door neighbor's ten year-old explained it
differently. She said that bees like sweet stuff. And they say
the smart ones have college degrees.
I no longer mind having bees around when I brew. We both go
about our own business. I'm careful not to step on them, I
politely shake them off the utensils and I keep my pint covered
with a coaster. In return they've never stung me and they've
never once asked for free beer. Not yet anyway.
chris campanelli
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 20:26 EDT
From: MIKE LELIVELT <MJL%UNCVX1.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: tall dorm fridges for temp control
Has anyone used a tall dorm style refrigerator with an external thermostat to
ferment in? I ask because space is tight at the homestead and I think this is
the only way my wife will agree to a second frige in the house. I think the
only cooling element would be the freezer at the top of the unit. I think I
might have to cut out a small bit of one of the door shelves to fit a plastic
7.5 gal fermentor in there. Has anyone played this game before? MIKE
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 18:26:42 -0800
From: kensiski@nas.nasa.gov (David L. Kensiski)
Subject: can I rescue this batch?
A colleague and I have brewed a lager pilsner that suffers from a lack
of carbonation. It tastes really great for about the first 10 seconds
after you open it, then it goes flat. We have been experimenting with
the amount of priming sugar in the batch; that's the likely culprit.
We brewed it way back in September, then fermented it for 6 weeks.
The SG went from 1.042 down to 1.007, so the yeasties seem to have
done their work. We then primed with 2/3 cup of corn sugar and
bottled it. It's been in the bottles now for about 6 weeks.
But I'd like to try to rescue the batch. Can I just open each bottle
and add a tad more sugar solution? If so, how do I determine how much
and at what concentration? Should I add more yeast as well?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.
- --Dave
________________________________________________________________________
David L. Kensiski [KB6HCN] Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation
kensiski@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center, M/S 258-6
(415)604-4417 Moffett Field, California 94035-1000
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1992 15:55:39 +1030
From: Murray Robinson <robinm@mrd.dsto.gov.au>
Subject: WYEAST 2112 - Problems Solved
Thanks to everyone concerned with regards to the apparent problems I had had with
WYEAST 2112 - California Lager. What has become perfectly clear is that when using a
liquid yeast you must allow the yeast to reproduce to the maximum extent in the
original packet if you wish to avoid lag times in the starter culture and finally the
fermenter. I must admit that I probably pitched my yeast into a starter for two
reasons:
1) I had a new toy that I was itching to use and so probably pitched it a little early.
2) Autralians work in metric units not imperial so a 1 inch thick yeast packet is
and arbitary measure of thickness to me.
Premature pitching of the yeast from packet to starter IMHO obviously results in
significant lag times (in my case more than 48 hours) which then exposes the starter
to potential spoiling by harmfull bacteria. Fortunately, my Munich Lager is now
fermenting away furiously in the fermenter with no off smells or flavours.
thanks again,
MC
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1024, 12/02/92
*************************************
-------
