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HOMEBREW Digest #0977
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 92/09/25 08:06:23
HOMEBREW Digest #977 Fri 25 September 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Crush (Jack Schmidling)
Stout from Pilsner Malt??? (rizy)
Kegging pressure tables? (Daniel Roman)
Hops as preservatives (Aaron Birenboim)
Re: yards ( Neil Mager )
RE: headaches (Paul dArmond)
BOS Mead Judging at the Nationals (Michael L. Hall)
re:London Ale Yeast (Mark_Davis.osbu_south)
Re: garden pests (was: Another hop harvest data point) (Dave Coombs)
Yeast culturing question (Carl West)
Collecting Bottles (Thomas P. Rush)
Cheap Carboys, etc./MacAndrews recipe (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Seattle beer--ah, heaven! ("JOSEPH V. GERMANI")
Bronze Awards (korz)
Re: Invert Sugar (Richard Childers)
Re: Collecting Bottles (Thomas P. Rush)
Welcome Back Brian (C.R. Saikley)
Interstate beer (jason)
old peculiar recipe request ("Regan Fulton")
Keytones? (ZLPAJGN)
Headaches and Homebrew (GEOFF REEVES)
Yards of ale availability (Arthur Delano)
help with glassware (John Isenhour)
Request Source for hops rhizomes (Garrett Hildebrand)
Recirculating pump details (Josh Grosse)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 23:05 CDT
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Crush
To: Homebrew Digest
Fm: Jack Schmidling
>From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
>However, the particles in the MaltMill(tm) crush were about twice as large
(in "width", so 8 times the volume).
First of all, feedback from such comparisons is not only useful but hard to
come by. The only other input was from George Fix who said he saw no such
difference BUT he had an adjustable mill and this might have made a
difference.
Having said that, I am not surprised that there is a difference in the
largest particle size for the following reason:
Proper commercial mills use multiple sets of rollers with progressivly closer
spacing and screens to sort out anything that has not gone through the last
set of rollers. The result is that largest particles will not exceed the
narrowest spacing. They also cost many thousands of dollars.
On a mill with a single set of rollers, a compromise is necessary. If too
close, the grain will not be grabbed and the starting torque is excessive.
If too far apart, the grain is not properly crushed. With the optimum
spacing, a reasonable approximation of what comes out of an expensive
commercail mill can be achieved. This will also vary slightly with different
types of grain.
> Whether this makes a real difference, I am not competent to say.
I guess that is the real question and to find out, I simulated multiple
rollers on my last batch. I ran the grain through at a wide spacing and
again at the narrowest spacing used on a commercial mill. The extract yield
was no different from previous batches run through with the standard spacing.
...................
BTW, just for the record, the review in Zymurgy incorrectly states that the
MALTMILL rollers are stainless steel. They are cold rolled steel as the cost
of ss rollers would exceed the selling price of the mill.
js
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 11:24:19 +0200
From: rizy@eel.sunet.se
Subject: Stout from Pilsner Malt???
I have just recieved 40 kg Pilsner malt from a friend (well, he is now!)
The problem is that I'm mainly a stout/porter brewer. I've been told that
it merely requires a mashing rest at 47 C or something to increase lacking
enzyme activity. Could someone fill me in on this???
Thanks in advance
Rick Zydenbos
(Stockholm, Sweden)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 08:14:25 CDT
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Yummy Malt Flavor
I somehow missed Joseph Hall's original post concerning beers with a
very high malt profile. The following was sent to him via private e-mail,
but it bounced.
Clearly the malt types used is a matter of the utmost practical import.
However, I have found that to get a very high malt flavor the sparge
must be omitted as well. This is an expensive way to brew since the amount
of grains needed must be increased by a factor ~4/3. Nevertheless, some of
the world's great ales and lagers have been brewed this way, and I have
found it works in homebrewing as well for special beers. Clearly this is
not the way to brew our standard beers.
The following is offered as an illustration. You clearly may want to modify
things to suit your environment. The control batch is more or less my standard
procedure, and the experimental batch is the no sparge version. A three step
infusion (135F, 152F, and 162F) was used for both along with a 1 1/2 hr. boil.
Hopping is according to your preferences, but I have found for these beers more
is better than less.
CONTROL BATCH
Brew Size = 50 liters (13.3 gals.)
Grain Bill = 11.5 kg. pale malt (25.3 lbs.), 1 kg. crytal (1 kg.)
Mash Water = 32 liters (8.5 gals.)
Sparge Water = 32 liters (8.5 gals.)
Vol. at the Start of Boil = 56 liters (14.8 gals.)
Starting Gravity = 1.060 (15 deg. Plato)
EXPERIMENTAL BATCH
Brew Size = 50 liters (13.3 gals.)
Grain Bill = 16.5 kg. pale malt (33.75 lbs.), 1.25 kg. crystal (3 lbs.)
Mash Water = 44 liters (11.5 gals.)
Water Directly Added to Kettle = 20 liters (5 gals.)
Vol. at the Start of Boil = 56 liters (14.8 gals.)
Starting Gravity = 1.060 (15 deg. Plato)
Note that the mash thickness is just about the same in both batches. In the
experimental batch the extra water not used in the mash is directly added to
the kettle.
Note: If you have the extra vessles, sparge, boil, and then pasteurize the
dilute wort that normally be left in the grains in the experimental batch.
I have found it useful for yeast storage and yeast propagation.
George Fix
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 9:52:59 EDT
From: roman@tix.timeplex.com (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Kegging pressure tables?
Does anyone know of a table or chart which may exist (preferably
electronically) which lists recommended pressures for a wide range of
kegging activities? Though far from a complete list some items that I
would expect to find on it would be counter flow filling pressure,
artificial carbonation of ales/lagers (or other styles which may have
other CO2 concentration requirements), cider, soda, and the recommended
delivery pressures for all of the above.
Please let me know (direct email) if such a table exists, and if one
does not exist I'll take responses and create a table and post it to the
Digest.
- --
____________________________________________________________________
Dan Roman | /// Internet: roman@tix.timeplex.com
Ascom Timeplex Inc. | \\\/// GEnie: D.ROMAN1
Woodcliff Lake, NJ | \XX/ Only AMIGA! Homebrew is better brew.
====================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 08:34:11 MDT
From: abirenbo@rigel.cel.scg.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Hops as preservatives
I love spicy food, and wish to do more experimentation with using
herbs OTHER than hops for flavor and aroma. I have had some
excelent experiments with corriander, cardamon, fennel, and
licorice. My question is, how much hops would be recommended
as preservative?
Do hops need a long boil for the preservative, or do the later
additions help as well?
BTW: A wide veriety of herbs will provide bittering if boiled
for an hour. There is such potential for a homebrewer to explore
here! I'd just like some guidelines for preserving my stability.
aaron
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 10:50:19 EDT
From: neilm@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Neil Mager )
Subject: Re: yards
Dave Gilbert writes:
> So, does anyone out there have addresses or phone numbers of catalogs
> that carry those spiffy "yard" glasses? I saw some of them while
> trying out the SLO Brewery in San Louis Obispo(sp?), and decided that
> my glass collection was seriously suffering by not having any.
> Unfortunately my wife and cousins were in much to big of a hurry and
> the place was a little to busy for me to get a chance to ask the
> bartender where they get theirs.
>
> BTW, SLO's porter is very good and the food was good also. If only
> I'd had time to sit and try out their other brews (deep sigh of regret).
>
>
> Thanx in advance
>
> Dave Gilbert
> dave@aha.com
Beer and Wine Hobby
Woburn, MA
617-933-8818
half yard ~$50
double half ~$100 (2 halfs, one stand as I understand it)
full yard ~$70
All come with stands. Prices are approximate.
Shipping is additional.
They also have a mailing list and will send you a copy of their
recipe of the month. If you order the ingredients for the recipe,
you get a 10% discount.
Standard disclaimers of any affiliation apply.
- --
===============================================================================
Neil Mager
MIT Lincoln Labs Lexington, MA
Weather Radar - Group 43
Internet <neilm@juliet.ll.mit.edu>
Voice (617) 981-4803
===============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 07:34:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: RE: headaches
There are several causes for headaches, none of which are specific to
homebrews, though some homebrews can have these causes. I have suffered
most of my life from severe migraine headaches. Many people are
vulnerable to "triggers" for headaches which may be associated with food
or drink: 1) low level allergic reactions; 2) specific allergic or toxic
reactions.
Low level allergic reactions are very common and also very hard to pin
down. They are typified by a (2-12 hour) delay between the allergen
and the headaches.
The specific reactions (these are the ones that I suffer from) are almost
instantaneous. I have reactions to many higher alcohols and aldehydes,
(paints, solvents, diesel oil and exhaust, cheap perfumes) and have had
this reaction from some beers (both commercial and homebrew). For this
reason, I use blowoff for my own beers, and have never had a reaction to
them. The homebrews that have given me headaches were all fermented in
open primaries.
Many of the mega-brew otter-water brands will give me a headache, so I
feel safer with micros and homebrews. This makes me wonder if the use of
raw (non-malted) grains may produce more higher alcohols. I know that
many grain distillers intentionally produce fusel oils as a commercial
byproduct of rapid fermentation.
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 10:09:02 MDT
From: mlh@cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: BOS Mead Judging at the Nationals
There has recently been a discussion in the HBD about the BOS Mead
Judging at the Nationals. Let me summarize with some excerpts:
Micah Millspaw wrote:
> Also I question whether this mead won Byron that prize,
> or he won it for some other reason, known only to the AHA.
Geoff Reeves responded:
> Whatever other complaints one might have about the AHA, how it is run,
> or how it handles various activities, the judgings are run as fairly
> as possible. [...]
> Furthermore a friend of mine (and member of our club), Gordon Olson,
> judged the meads in the finals. He was once meadmaker of the year
> and knows his meads. Not only did he come back raving about this mead
> but he would never take part in any 'fixing' of the competition.
Then, Tom Altenbach said:
> Here are the facts. Immediately after the best of show (3rd round) mead
> judging in Milwaukee, I had a conversation with one of the judges,
> Brian North, who told me that there had been a "problem" with the mead
> judging from the second round. We didn't get into the details of what
> the problem was. However, the 3rd round judges took the top 3 meads
> from each class and REJUDGED them all, instead of just picking between
> the 1st place winners to decide best of show. Brian told me that this
> resulted in a switch of the 1st and 3rd place meads in one of the
> classes. Examination of the returned scoresheets shows that Micah's
> mead was judged 1st in his class by the second round panel, and his
> scores were higher than those given to Byron's mead. [...]
>
> It would be nice to hear first hand from the judges involved and the
> competition director, to understand their reasons for these actions.
Well, I thought that things should be clarified a bit, so I sent complete
copies of all the postings to Gordon Olson, one of the BOS judges and
a member of our local homebrew club (Yea HillHoppers!). He wasn't able to
post directly to the HBD, so I'm including his posting for him.
Mike Hall
hall@lanl.gov
______________________
Gordon Olson responds:
This is my first posting to the HBD, so I hope it gets there OK.
In response to HBD 970 and 971, I was one of the mead judges at
the AHA National Competition held in Milwaukee. My opening remark is
to remind everyone that until the winners were anounced, none of the
judges knew who brewed which mead. We judged each mead solely on its
own merit.
In the second round I judged traditional meads. We had many
excellent brews, with four of them getting more than 40 points for
an average score. One mead was made from wild honey and became
controversial. I thought it was too stongly flavored and too wild
tasting, almost medicinal. Another judge thought that it was
wonderfully complex and flowery. The one mead we all agreed on was a
simple mead that was clean and well balanced. It was assigned first
place. The wild honey mead was given second place as a compromise.
Third was given to a sparkling champagne-style mead that was deemed
to be perhaps too appley in its nose.
Dave Welker, the competion organizer, had been called in to give
his advice on the discussion of the wild honey mead. He carefully
did not express his opinion, but encouraged us to reach a
compromise. Later Dave asked two of us who judged the traditional
meads and two from the non-traditional table to get together the
next day to judge best of show.
Probably due to the controversy about the wild honey mead, Dave
brought the top three finishers from each category to the BOS
judging. This surprised all of us, but we said: Why not, let's taste
six good meads instead of two. We quickly found that the melomels
and metheglins this year were not as good as the traditional
entries. To my surprise, the mead we had placed first the day
before, now tasted more mediocre than I had remembered and the other
judges quickly set it aside as good but not great. The other judge
from the traditional category did not recognize it as the same mead.
It appears that there was significant bottle-to-bottle variation!
Which bottle should be judged? The decision as to what to do was not
lightly made. We decided that the four assembled judges were the
best qualified, unbiased (we had no entries of our own, of course)
judges available and we had to judge the merits of the mead in the
bottles in front of us.
Then the discussion quickly narrowed down to the merits of the
wild honey versus the sparkling champagne-style mead. We split two
against two on which was best. After much discussion, the sparkling
mead was given a very narrow victory.
With that done, the question arose as to what to do about the
previous day's judging and results. It was decided to make the second
round consistent with the BOS judging. I modified my previous day's
scores by one point on one sheet and by two points on another sheet.
The scores were so close that that was all that was required to give
numerical victory to the sparkling mead.
So the "problem" that Brian North was referring to was what to do
when there is significant variation between the bottles that are
judged. Another "problem" was what to do when an unusal mead with
wild honey shows up in the competition.
I have judged best-of-show at our state fair competitions. None
of them were as tough as the AHA mead BOS this year. Be assured that
the judges do not take their jobs lightly and the judging is truely
a "blind" tasting.
I hope that this message clarifies what happened.
Two years ago my sack mead was first place in the traditional
category, but I did not make it as Mead Maker of the Year. Next
year, I want to be winning BOS rather than judging it.
Gordon Olson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 09:25:11 PDT
From: Mark_Davis.osbu_south@xerox.com
Subject: re:London Ale Yeast
>From: korz@iepubj.att.com
>Subject: London Ale Yeast
>Mark asks about the attenuation of Wyeast London Ale yeast (#1028):
>>6.6#'s dark extract, 2 #'s brown sugar, and 1/2 #
>>crystal. I had an OG of 1.058, which seemed pretty
>>good. But I had an FG of 1.008 which seemed way too
>>low.
>I agree it's too low. What you got is 1 - (0.008/0.058) = 0.86 = 86%
>attenuation. That's too much attenuation compared to what I've been
>getting with #1028, namely 65% to 67%. The brown sugar is roughly
>95% fermentable, so it's bringing down your FG, but IMHO, not all the
>way to 1.008. Perhaps it's an infection problem. I've found that dry
>yeast starts about twice as fast as Wyeast and thus the sanitation
>techniques that worked for dry yeast may be not good enough for Wyeast.
>Re-evaluate your techniques and spruce-up the weak links. Using a
>starter will shorten lag time and thus may give the yeast enough of an
>advantage on the bacteria to make them insignificant.
>
>Al.
Interesting, I just finished a batch of beer where I used Wyeast #1028 and also
came up with about the same results. I have been using Wyeast for sometime now
and am very cautious about bacterial infection. I use a starter of about 500ml
and have activity within the first eight hours(probably less time, but after
all the homebrew that was consumed during brewtime it takes me about eigth
hours to get going ;-). Anyway, the last batch was a maple ale (turned out real
good, I will post the recipe later). The main ingredients where:
5lbs. Amber Malt Syrup
0.5lbs. Scottish Crystal Malt
0.5lbs. Wheat Malt
1 Qt. Dark Maple Syrup(the pure, expensive stuff)
OG of 1.054
FG of 1.008
By the figures given above I get 1 - (0.008/0.054)=.851=85%. Well I wonder if
anyone else is getting an attenuation with #1028 that is equally as low? Anyway
my Maple Ale came good, but a little dry, could have had a little more
sweetness to it.
Mark_Davis.osbu_south@Xerox.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 12:33:39 -0400
From: Dave Coombs <coombs@cme.nist.gov>
Subject: Re: garden pests (was: Another hop harvest data point)
Scott Barrett has pests in his hops.
I'm not sure what the green worm is, but when I find that sort of
thing in my garden, I just pick it off the plants and destroy it.
The mystery pest that munches the lower leaves may be slugs. I never
had big slug problems in Rochester NY, but since I moved to the
Washington DC area, I've become much better acquainted with them. If
you don't see the varmint in daylight, try looking a couple hours
after sunset. If ther are slugs, I'd expect to see them crawling on
the leaves and the ground nearby. If you've had a hard frost (and you
just did, right?) I don't know if you'll be able to see any more this
year.
There are several common methods for controlling slugs (ie, capturing
and indisposing them). I have always used the passive method of
laying out a shallow pan of beer into which the creatures crawl. They
subsequently fail to crawl out. ("Help! I've fallen into a vat of
beer, and I can't get out!") However, I discovered one evening that
90% of my slugs were ignoring the beer (maybe I shouldn't have bought
the cheapest beer I could find for them...) and were munching away on
my green bean plants. So I went out early one overcast morning,
rolled up my sleeves, and picked them off the plants and soil. I
pitched them in the handy beer receptacles to drown. (Good luck
washing the slime off your fingers!) Another common method is to lay
a shingle on the ground near the crop. Slugs are said to crawl under
them to hide. Simply check these traps in the morning and destroy the
pests. I haven't tried this yet.
dave
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 11:46:53 EDT
From: eisen@kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Yeast culturing question
I streaked out the dregs from a batch that I bottled over a year ago.
One of the `plates' had a thin grey `fog' on it and five colonies of
yeast alone in the corner (it smelled marvelous).
[The other `plates' had only grey-green or black beasts on them,
my kitchen isn't as clean as I'd like].
I picked the three colonies furthest from the grey stuff and put then
in ~2oz of sterile unhopped wort (pressure cooked, last spring), put a
trap on it and stuck it in the corner of the heated waterbed (~83F).
Bubble, bubble, bubble.
A day or so later I added enough sterile unhopped wort to double the
volume.
Bubble, bubble, bubble.
A day or so after that, the wort began to clear, so I moved the whole
meghilla (sp?) to a sanitized bottle and doubled the volume again with
sterile unhopped wort. I tasted the remains in the first bottle,
no `off' flavors but very estery. (big surprise! esters at 83F! :)
Bubble, bubble, bubble.
I now have ~10oz of yeasty wort that I'd like to use as a starter for
a three gallon batch, my first since January (Oy! such busyness!).
*****************
THE QUESTION:
How safe am I in assuming that there's nothing living in there but
yeast?
*****************
This yeast was originally cultured from a bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale. The resulting beer was bottled early last August. This last spring
I discovered that a few bottles had been left in a cooler in the
(separate and unheated) garage over the (New England) winter. I brought
the bottles in the house where they sat in a dark cupboard through the
summer (some got put in the fridge). The beer's still good. I figure
that the yeast that I've got now is some _tough_ stuff.
It might even make good beer.
Carl West
When I stop learning, bury me.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 13:05:46 -0400
From: trush@mhc.mtholyoke.edu (Thomas P. Rush)
Subject: Collecting Bottles
I hope the following is helpful to anyone in choosing bottles,
I have taught myself thru trial and error.
1. Avoid using twist-off cap or one filling bottles they're
not as sturdy as a true "bar bottle" which is returned, washed,
and reused. I've had the one-shot returnables chip while washing
and capping.
2. In my state (Massachusetts) all bottles are returned for deposit.
A true bar bottle is heavier than a one time bottle, its packed
in a heavy cardboard 24b. case and comes in 12 or 16oz.-I prefer
the l6oz., you pour once off the yeast sediment, there is less air
space ounce for ounce in the neck--it just seems to have a better
quality coming out of a pint bottle.
3. They,re difficult to get UNLESS you are willing to do the
following. A. Find a large package store, they should have stacks
of FILLED cases of bar bottles.B. Ask permission of the manager
to pick thru a certain brand of bottled bar bottles(never had a
problem). C. Pick the newest, cleanest case, some can be very
crummy. D. Pick over the best bottles from several cases, there
is something about an old reused bar bottle with white rings
and scratches that really turns me off and probably my guests.
There are about 10% to 20% new bottles mixed into a case due
to loss, breakage, etc. E. Return home and enjoy the commercial
brew, some of the stuff isn't that bad-I think the fact that
they are 16ozer's and in glass makes a difference.
The fact its such a pain to gather good bottles is one
reason I don't like to give away my beer. It breaks up full
cases and nonbrewers treat them as throwaways as in,"Gosh,
that was great beer--whadya mean where are the bottles?"
Good hunting,
Tom Rush
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 12:24:14 EDT
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Subject: Cheap Carboys, etc./MacAndrews recipe
Frequently, food co-ops can order brewing equipment and supplies for
you. Some will even have them on hand. Some even have lots of stuff
on hand.
A friend of mine has bought 5 gallon carboys for about $13 each, 3
gallon for $8 each, Coronas for $30, domestic and imported malt at
$30-$40 per 50lb bag, etc. I usually just ask him to "get one for
me, too" whenever he's placing an order. :-)
Of course, you may also encounter 3 month delays in ordering when
you deal with the overly laid back folks that tend to run co-ops.
- -------
Doesn't *anyone* out there have a MacAndrews recipe, along with detailed
info about ingredients, he/she is willing to share with me? I'm still
looking for a more or less authentic recipe using authentic ingredients.
Apparently, so are a number of folks who sent me mail asking for copies
of any recipes I might receive.
uunet!joebloe!joseph (609) 273-8200 day joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
v v sssss | Certified Guru: all-grain brewing,| 2102 Ryan's Run East
v v s s | C, synthesizer comp & arranging, | Rt 38 & 41
v sss | photography. Also not a bad cook. | Maple Shade NJ 08052
- -----My employer isn't paying for this, and my opinions are my own-----
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 13:12 EST
From: "JOSEPH V. GERMANI" <GERMANI%NSLVAX@Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu>
Subject: Seattle beer--ah, heaven!
Greetings,
In response to Joel McCamley's request for info on Seattle drinking,
let me refer you to HBD #894 in which Don Scheidt gave a great summary of
places to visit. I was in Seattle last week and found that his advice was
excellent. By the way, thanks Don, even though I wasn't the person who asked
for the info originally.
Now let me add my own two cents. My two favorite places that Don
mentioned are the Trolleyman Pub at the Red Hook Brewery, and the Big Time
Brewpub. I had a chance to sample Red Hook's original ale (they had a $1/pint
special for their 10th anniversary) which seems to be infrequently brewed. It
was a very interesting beer with lots of esters. I was a little confused until
I found out that they use a Belgian yeast for it. And then there is Red Hook
ESB, one of the best beers in the world, IMHO. Big Time has a rye beer they
call a Hefe-ryezen that is wonderful. Both places have what I consider to be
great atmospheres for drinking great beer. Pikes Place, a real micro micro,
near the market of the same name, makes a very nice ale that you can sample
just down the street at Liberty Malt (a fun brew supply store to visit) as
well as at many local bars. Also of note are two porters that I
had a chance to try: Night watch (not too sure of the name) was pleasantly
nutty, and Blackhook (by Red Hook) was like a great cup of coffee. I also
recommend anything by Grants, in Yakima, especially if you like hops.
This is just a small sampling of the great beer in Seattle. I liked it
so much that I'm on the verge of forgetting my PhD in physics and moving to
Seattle to try to get a job at Red Hook or Big Time.
Enjoy,
Joe
Internet: GERMANI%NSLVAX@VENUS.YCC.YALE.EDU
Bitnet: GERMANI@YALEVMS
Decnet: 44421::GERMANI
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
What care I how time advances:
I am drinking ale today. Poe
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 13:27 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Bronze Awards
Oops! I guess I wasn't clear about the Bronze Certificates. What I
was referring to was the AHA National Competition, in which, besides
the 1st, 2nd and 3dr place, there are also Certificates given out
for quality beers whether they placed or not. A score of 25-29 earns
you a Bronze Certificate (they may be called "Awards" I don't recall),
a score of 30-39 earns you a Silver and a score of 40-50, earns you
a Gold. To restate my comment: if you brewed a infection-free weizen and
entered it in the stout category, you probably would still get 25 points,
a Bronze Certificate and a few comments like: "too bad you didn't enter
this in the wheat beer category..."
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 11:27:27 PDT
From: Richard Childers <rchilder@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Invert Sugar
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 13:21 EDT
> From: HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
> Subject: Invert Sugar and other stuff
> .
> .
> Anyhow, in HBD #974, Bart Lipkens asks about INVERT SUGAR. Invert sugar
> is simply a mixture of glucose and fructose resulting from the hydrolysis
> of sucrose aka cane sugar aka table sugar. It is sometimes known as
> "high fructose corn sugar". A cheap and available substitute therefore
> is simply the ordinary corn sugar sold in homebrew stores, although
> invert sugar is somewhat sweeter. Invert sugar is NOT the same as table
> sugar, as a result of the hydrolysis step.
Invert sugar can be simply described, I have been told, as the mirror image
of a conventional cane sugar molecule, IE, laevo ( left-handed ) versus
dextro ( right-handed ) structure.
All of the taste, allegedly, but none of the consequences, as the molecule
does not 'fit' into reserved niches where normal sugars will, and passes out
of the body without influencing tooth decay, obesity, or any other concerns.
It was first refined in the late 1940s, I believe, but - for obscure reasons
associated with a supposed bad taste that was later found to be unduplicated
by scientists reproducing the solution, decades later - it never made it to
the market, until recently. ( My guess is that the sugar industry paid big
bucks to suppress it. )
I'm wondering if the purpose of its addition to beer brewing is to sweeten the
beer without providing sustenance for those little yeastie beasties ... I kind
of prefer honey, myself, but I may give invert sugar a try, now.
- -- richard
=====
- -- richard childers rchilder@us.oracle.com 1 415 506 2411
oracle data center -- unix systems & network administration
Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 14:41:47 -0400
From: trush@mhc.mtholyoke.edu (Thomas P. Rush)
Subject: Re: Collecting Bottles
>you pour once off the yeast sediment...
After reading my outgoing file, I hope the above is not read
to mean "once you pour off the yeast sediment"- the bottle
is slowly poured into a mug or glass in one contiuous act to
avoid the yeast sediment. Sorry...
Tom Rush
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 12:08:03 PDT
From: grumpy!cr@uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Welcome Back Brian
Welcome back, Brian.
>I'd like to thank all of you who replied to my request for info on bringing
>beer home from Belgium. I didn't have nearly as much time in Belgium as I
>thought I would, so I didn't have a chance to tour any breweries or try any
>bars.
Now that's a shame. It sounds like you'll just have to return there and
rectify this :-)
>But I did manage to bring back 13 liters of wonderful fluids. I had hoped for
>more. But I was traveling by train instead of car, so I couldn't buy more
>than I could carry. The customs guy at LAX raised his eyebrows when I told
>him how much beer I had, but he waved me through.
Interesting. No duties??
>When I started buying this stuff I got carried away and started picking up
>any bottle within reach. ( It was a wonderful feeling! ) I'm going to
>need some help figuring out what some of this stuff is.
>What I've got is:
> Chimay blue label, '91 and '92 ( couldn't buy only lambics! )
> F. Boon Kriek Marriage Parfait
> F. Boon Lambic Marriage Parfait
> Cantillion Kriek
> Cantillion Gueze
> Cantillion Rose de Gambrinus
> Cantillion Gueze Vigneronne ( OK, I figured out what this was, lambic
> with raisins. But I've never seen a
> sensory profile for this stuff. What
> should I expect? )
> *** Cantillion Bruocsella 1900 ( label says "old lambic", cork says 1992 )
> *** Cantillion Brabantiae
>So, what are these last two?
>How long are these beers aged before they leave the brewery?
The blue is my favorite from the Chimay family, nice choice. As much as I
love Chimay, I've always felt that its flavors were somewhat in conflict. The
carbonation is overdone, which detracts from the malty sweetness, which
doesn't meld with the crazy yeasty by-products. If these flavors could be
brought more into balance, what an exceptional beer would result!
My favorite Trappiste ale is Rochefort 10, which is somewhat rare, even in
Belgium. Its carbonation is lighter and its flavors are generally more
harmonious. It still has flavor peaks which tug and pull at each other, but
less so than Chimay. It's a shame that Rochefort will probably never be
available in the US, and I'll probably never become a monk at Rochefort :-)
Anybody out there know this beer??
>From the Cantillon clan, the Vigneronne is my favorite. As I've mentioned
before, I've come around to believing that Cantillon brews lack balance and
could be improved. They use more fruit than most (300g of cherries/liter of
Kriek, FBoon uses 200g/l, Timmerman's 100g/l), yet the fruit is overwhelmed
by the lambik hardness. In the Vigneronne, the fruit actually makes a sizable
dent in the other flavors. JP Van Roy, the brewmaster there, told me that
Vigneronne was made with white grapes. He mentioned nothing about raisins,
but his English wasn't as developed as his beers, so it's possible that I
misunderstood him.
The Bruocsella is a straight Lambik, not a Gueuze. Gueuze is a blend of
Lambiks if different ages, which is refermented in the bottle ala Champagne.
Bruocsella, whose name is Latin for Brussels, is an unblended, three year old
Lambik. As such, it is often entirely lacking carbonation. Since it spent
three years in a barrel, it's pretty well fermented out by bottling time. I
did run across a sample with a slight sparkle, but this had been bottled in
1990. The 1992 on yours is the year it was bottled.
I'm less certain about the Brabantiae, but I believe that it's an unblended
Lambik as well. Don't know what distinguishes Brabantiae from Bruocsella.
>This was indeed the Mecca of the Belgian beer scene. I talked to a man who
>seemed to be the proprietor. I didn't get his name, but the sig on the receipt
>doesn't look at all like Nasser. Whoever it was had some very good news. He
>said that he was going to be in Los Angeles next week in order to work on
>opening a branch of Biers Artisinals there!! He was shaking a stack of
>federal paper work at me, and questioning me about why Americans are so stupid
>that they have to have warning labels on beer telling you that it will get you
>drunk. Just wait until he sees the paper work he'll have to do for California.
I'm sure that Nasser isn't the only one who runs the shop, especially since
there are two shops. Their opening a branch in LA is great news. Any idea
where in LA??
CR
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 12:30:44 -0700
From: jason@beamlab.ps.uci.edu
Subject: Interstate beer
I will be driving from New York to Southern Cal along I-80 and I-15
does anyone know of any Micro's or other happenin' spots off these
highways. Please e-mail me as soon as possible. The last time
I will read mail before going will be friday (the day this digest
comes out).. Thanks .
Brewinscum
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 15:43:17 CDT
From: "Regan Fulton" <fulton@molbio.cbs.umn.edu>
Subject: old peculiar recipe request
With all this talk about Old Peculiar, I'm getting a powerful
thirst! Would some kind soul direct me to an extract recipe for
this delicious variety? I would be very grateful.
_______________________________________________________
| |
| Regan Fulton Email: fulton@molbio.cbs.umn.edu |
| 5-110 Moos Tower Phone: (612) 624-9663 |
| University of Fax: (612) 626-7031 |
| Minnesota |
| 515 Delaware St. S.E. |
| Minneapolis, MN 55455 |
|________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 15:48 CDT
From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Keytones?
Dear Brewers,
I'm interested in this headache stuff, as I'm sure alot of others on the
forum are. What are keytones, and how do I keep 'em out of my beer?
Please don't email me personally, as I think this might interest all.
Cheers,
John
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 17:37:35 -0600
From: 105277@essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Headaches and Homebrew
> i seem to be gettign a lotof headaches lately-like within the last
> year. My wife seems to think it might be homebrew. Has anyone had
> this similar reactions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kieran O'Connor
>
I have a friend here at work who clamis homebrew/microbrew always gives
him headaches. He asked me about it and I have no clue. He didn't
remember having headaches with authentic German beers so it can't
be a problem with malt. I suspected he may have had trouble with one
or two brewpubs and developed the idea that all good-tasting beer
gave him headaches ;-) I dismissed the whole thing until your post.
Now I'm not so sure. Personally though, I've never had any problems
with homebrew that I didn't have with the same consumption of commercial
beer.
Geoff Reeves
Atomic City Ales
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 20:39:56 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd@itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Yards of ale availability
Dave Gilbert <solomon!dave@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu> asks about the
availability of yard ale glasses.
Mine was given to me as a gift, and was purchased near Albany at
a Corning Glass factory outlet. They have other outlets, so if
you have one near you it may be worth a visit. The package for
mine has a $30 price tag on it, but as my friend mentioned that
it was a display model, i don't know if this was the store's
regular price or its display model discount.
Nightwing Enterprises sells "Coachman's glasses" in three sizes;
foot, half-yard, and yard. Each includes a stand (as does the
corning glass) and "competition sets" are available (a double
stand with two glasses). Each competition set is roughly half
again the price of a single set. The price for a yard is
$69.95 plus s&h. I haven't tried nor seen these glasses, but
they advertise in All About Beer and Zymurgy. Their phone
number is 607-723-5886. Nightwing also sells a brush for cleaning
the glass and a wooden cap to keep dust out. I'm contemplating
getting the brush, which is $5.
Incidentally, we measured my yard glass at three pints even.
Nightwing claims its glass is forty ounces, which probably means
they measure by filling to the lip (we allowed some room for a
head/spillage prevention when we measured ours).
AjD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 19:37:10 CDT
From: hopduvel!john@linac.fnal.gov (John Isenhour)
Subject: help with glassware
My SO finally found some real nice mugs which met my stringent
criteria -
flat bottom so if they get in the dishwasher it doesn't
catch dishwasher drool (not the normal way I wash em, but ya_know)
a 'manly' (read my size) handle so's ya can get yer whole hand in it
Optic perfection for the body, for evaluation purposes.
So, I get a batch of these guys and the rim is nicely beveled on the
outside, but the inside is a sharp edge of glass. I figure I can
live with that, but it is getting chipped from very mild use.
What I really need is some advice on how to bevel the inside edge of
the mugs.
Can I use something like 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper?
I really appreciate any advice, as if I whine about this, after the
effort gone to to get them, I may loose all my brewing appendages,
and maybe more!:-?
Tnx!
- --
John, The Hop Devil
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA certified Beer Judge
home: john@hopduvel.uucp work: isenhour@lambic.fnal.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 15:01:46 PDT
From: mdcsc!gdh@uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand)
Subject: Request Source for hops rhizomes
Would someone with a list of good
suppliers of hops roots or rhizomes
please post the names/address and/or
names/phone numbers ?
Thanks,
Garrett
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 20:29:04 EDT
From: jdg@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Josh Grosse)
Subject: Recirculating pump details
Earlier this week, I posted an article entitled "Incredible extraction rate"
in which I described a pump that recirculates the mash from below the
screen back up to the top of the mash. It was also used to recirculate the
boiled wort to facilitate immersion chilling.
I received a number of requests for information about that pump. It's a
Teel (sp?) brand pump, rated to 230 F, available from W.W. Grainger's
catalog. It was not self-priming, but that didn't matter, as the pump was
attached to the bottom of the tun or kettle, so it's gravity primed. We
were able to detach it and move it to the kettle, as there were valves and
standard union joints to facilitate this.
(------) <-out--+
| | |
| | |
| tun | |
| | |
| | ---- |
(------)--|pump|-+
____
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse jdg@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #977, 09/25/92
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