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HOMEBREW Digest #0978
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 92/09/28 10:34:47
HOMEBREW Digest #978 Mon 28 September 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Invert sugar, the true story. (Dominic Ryan)
Ketone Headaches (Peter Bartscherer)
Labels (mpl)
headaches caused by yeast? (FWALTER)
Welcome Back Brian ("Spencer W. Thomas")
Yard of ale correction (Arthur Delano)
pheonix brew (Andre Vignos)
re: Yards of ale availability (Ted Manahan)
Cheaper Yards of Ale (BELLAGIO_DAVID)
help with glassware (Carl West)
The King of Slugbait (Scott Barrett)
Cooper's Extract & Yeast (Jeff Frane)
AHA mead competition (donald oconnor)
Accessing the Homebrew Archives. ("Stephen Hansen")
Re: Hydrometers (Alan_D._Thomson.LAX1B)
<topic> (Mark_Davis.osbu_south)
Imperial Stouts (chris campanelli)
>Anyone hear of Thorsen Electric Bin? (Jim Bayer)
Glass styles (Peter Nesbitt)
Accessing the Archives (Peter Nesbitt)
Aerating wort (Peter Nesbitt)
homebrew and headaches (Andrew Patti)
subscribing (MICHAEL BLAIR 6100 SEC 10)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 08:43:59 -0400
From: ryan%phmms0.mms.smithkline.com@smithkline.com (Dominic Ryan)
Subject: Invert sugar, the true story.
Bear with me on this, this is a tad long because I included two posts.
}From: Richard Childers <rchilder@us.oracle.com>
}Subject: Re: Invert Sugar
}
}> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 13:21 EDT
}> From: HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
}> Subject: Invert Sugar and other stuff
}> .
}> .
}> Anyhow, in HBD #974, Bart Lipkens asks about INVERT SUGAR. Invert sugar
}> is simply a mixture of glucose and fructose resulting from the hydrolysis
}> of sucrose aka cane sugar aka table sugar. It is sometimes known as
}> "high fructose corn sugar". A cheap and available substitute therefore
}> is simply the ordinary corn sugar sold in homebrew stores, although
}> invert sugar is somewhat sweeter. Invert sugar is NOT the same as table
}> sugar, as a result of the hydrolysis step.
}
}Invert sugar can be simply described, I have been told, as the mirror image
}of a conventional cane sugar molecule, IE, laevo ( left-handed ) versus
}dextro ( right-handed ) structure.
}
I feel that as a chemist I have to stop this one before it grows into another
myth.
The first poster got it right. Invert sugar is the product of breaking
apart sucrose into its two constituent parts, glucose and fructose, via
a process called hydrolysis. Another issue is raised here, that of handedness
or what is called chirality in chemistry. Sucrose does indeed have a
handedness to it. Molecules that have this property also have the property
of rotating plane polarised light (Polaroid lenses will polarise light into
one plane by only letting that one through and this is why you get no
transmission if you hold two such lenses in front of each other at the
right rotation with respect to each other). The direction of rotation
is not related in a simple way to the handedness of the molecule. Sucrose is
dextrorotatory -it rotates light in a right handed screw direction. Dextrose
is also dextrorotatory and fructose, also called levulose, is levorotatory -
it rotates light in a left handed direction. Fructose rotates light to the
left slightly more that dextrose does to the right, and the invert sugar
mix is therefore slightly levorotatory as a result.
}All of the taste, allegedly, but none of the consequences, as the molecule
}does not 'fit' into reserved niches where normal sugars will, and passes out
}of the body without influencing tooth decay, obesity, or any other concerns.
I am sorry to have to say this, but this is utter nonsense. Sucrose is
processed by your digestive system into glucose and fructose. Glucose is
the fuel for all energy processes in the body, the only thing you brain
actually uses as 'food' is glucose.
}It was first refined in the late 1940s, I believe, but - for obscure reasons
}associated with a supposed bad taste that was later found to be unduplicated
}by scientists reproducing the solution, decades later - it never made it to
}the market, until recently. ( My guess is that the sugar industry paid big
}bucks to suppress it. )
Here again, invert sugar has been know for a long time. It is actually
slightly sweeter than cane sugar. It is used commercially in confections and
brewing and processes that require retaining moisture.
}I'm wondering if the purpose of its addition to beer brewing is to sweeten the
}beer without providing sustenance for those little yeastie beasties ... I kind
}of prefer honey, myself, but I may give invert sugar a try, now.
<sig. del.>
If there are any questions as a result of this I will try to answer them.
M. Dominic Ryan SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
(215)-270-6529 internet: ryan%phmms0.mms@smithkline.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:09:21 EDT
From: Peter Bartscherer <BARTSCHP@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU>
Subject: Ketone Headaches
After Kieran O'Connor's post regarding headaches, I e-mailed him with my
thoughts and then the next day read Mike Mahler's post suggesting that
a high level of ketones might be the reason. Now here are my questions:
* what causes the creation of ketones?
* is there some indication of a high level of ketones (eg heavy
kreusen in the primary...)?
* will inadequate rinse of chlorine bleach create high ketone levels?
* will inadequate rinse cause chlorine headaches? :-)
* does using a blow-off tube help reduce headaches (whatever their
cause)?
* what else might be the cause? dry yeast? infection? sediment?
___________________________________________________________________
Peter Bartscherer 215.626.7714 Design & Imaging Studio
BARTSCHP@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU Drexel U / Philadelphia, PA
___________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:28 EDT
From: mpl@pegasus.att.com
Subject: Labels
So far I have been marking my brews by putting marks on the caps, but
this is not a very elegant solution. I'd like to use labels on the
bottles, but I don't want to have to soak them off after each use.
Other than resorting to masking tape, are there labels available that
peel off easily?
Mike Lindner
mikel@attmail.att.com
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 1992 10:38:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: FWALTER%RULUPI@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: headaches caused by yeast?
Greetings,
I fortunately do not suffer from headaches, but my wife does. One of the
things that seems to bring them on is yeast. She often gets headaches after
drinking homebrew OR commercial beers with yeast still in the bottle (like the
old Boulder Beers). Other beers do not seem to cause this problem.
Fred
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:52:50 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
Subject: Welcome Back Brian
C.R. Saikley writes:
> JP Van Roy, the brewmaster there, told me that
> Vigneronne was made with white grapes. He mentioned nothing about raisins,
> but his English wasn't as developed as his beers, so it's possible that I
> misunderstood him.
The French word for grape is "raisin". Therein may lie the confusion.
=S
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 11:18:55 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd@itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Yard of ale correction
I wrote:
]Incidentally, we measured my yard glass at three pints even.
]Nightwing claims its glass is forty ounces, which probably means
]they measure by filling to the lip
My error in measure has been pointed out to me. Three pints is
forty eight ounces, so perhaps the corningware glass is larger.
Perhaps i ought to proofread my posts before mailing them.
[blush]
AjD
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 11:42:11 EDT
From: Andre Vignos <andre@Think.COM>
Subject: pheonix brew
I'm headin for Pheonix for the last two weeks in october and figured I'd
have plenty of time to frequent prewbubs. Anybody know of any in the area,
or some good local bottled stuff. By the way, I picked up a six pack of Red
Tail Ale, brewed in hopland, CA by Mendacino brewery and it is damn good.
Exactly how I want my Amber ale to come out like.
-Andre
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 08:52:28 pdt
From: Ted Manahan <tedm@hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: re: Yards of ale availability
Full-Name: Ted Manahan
> Nightwing Enterprises sells "Coachman's glasses" in three sizes;
> foot, half-yard, and yard.... Their phone
> number is 607-723-5886.
I want to put in a short pitch for Nightwing Enterprises. I had a chat
with the fellow who runs this business at the AHA conference last June.
He is interested in beer history, and is thinking of doing some field
research and writing a book on traditional beers of Africa.
His beer glasses look pretty good too.
Ted Manahan
tedm@cv.hp.com
503/750-2856
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 92 08:54:00 -0700
From: BELLAGIO_DAVID@Tandem.COM
Subject: Cheaper Yards of Ale
Hold on! I too was yearning for those Yard glasses after seeing them in
Denver for the first time. I noticed them in Zymurgy and other brew type
catalogs for about $49.00 for a half yard and more for yards. Then I went
to the outlet mall in Gilroy California and ventured into the glass outlet
store ( which is now being merged with the Corning outlet store ) and lo and
behold they had yards, half yards, and foots of Ale! The great thing is that
the prices were $29.00 for a yard, $19.00 for a half yard, and $11.00 for a
foot! These are the exact same as the ones I've seen in the catalogs. I got
a half yard which holds 32 oz to the brim. This is great for a big brew of
22 oz or 25 oz. I was told the yards hold 60 oz. If anyone wants the phone
number to this store I have it at home. I don't think they mail order but
maybe they can do something.
Super Dave
Bellagio_David@Tandem.Com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 11:33:31 EDT
From: eisen@kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: help with glassware
Yep, you can use #800 wetordry, use it wet, (the dust would be _bad_ to
breath). This will leave you with a `ground glass' finish. Actually,
depending on how much glass you wish to remove, you might want to start
with some #400 or #600, then go to #800, then maybe even #1200 or
#1600. If you have access to jewelry polishing equipment, you might be
able to get it down to a smooth, shiny surface again. Watch out for
heat buildup if you're using machines, it'll crack the glass.
Lots o' work.
Good luck.
Carl
WISL,BM.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 11:04:42 -0500
From: adiron!scott@uunet.UU.NET (Scott Barrett)
Subject: The King of Slugbait
In HBD 977, Dave Coombs posited that slugs were my unseen hop nibblers and
wrote:
>There are several common methods for controlling slugs (ie, capturing and
>indisposing them). I have always used the passive method of laying out a
>shallow pan of beer into which the creatures crawl. They subsequently fail to
>crawl out. ("Help! I've fallen into a vat of beer, and I can't get out!")
>However, I discovered one evening that 90% of my slugs were ignoring the beer
>(maybe I shouldn't have bought the cheapest beer I could find for them...)
Perhaps you should have bought The King of Slugbait, Budweiser. An issue
of Zymurgy last year noted that in a study done at a university in Colorado
(I think), Budweiser was preferred by 5 out of 6 slugs!
The advertisement potential is staggering! What better endorsement could a
brewer ask for? Swedish bikini team move over. Here come the Bud Slugs!
"When you want a slug of beer, reach for 'The Beer of Slugs'."
What an apt indictment of American popular taste in beer!
Yours in brewing,
Scott Barrett (the sixth slug)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 9:35:33 PDT
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Cooper's Extract & Yeast
Al Korzonas mentions good results from Cooper's kit yeast. I have to
had my agreement. If I was absolutely unable to find a clean liquid
yeast and had to use dry yeast, Cooper's is the only strain I'd risk. I
made a couple of batches with it a few years ago (with two cans of
Cooper's extract, no sugar, and some finishing hops) and made an
amazingly good ale. I also had WYeast clean up the yeast and brewed
with it as a pure culture and it was a bang-up strain. I think the
primary brewing yeast is very vigorous and this makes up for the slight
contamination (yes there was some).
Jeff Frane
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 11:39:24 -0500
From: oconnor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
Subject: AHA mead competition
This is a commentary on the BOS judging at the AHA nationals in
Milwaukee. I base my comments entirely on facts outlined in Friday's
HBD by Gordon Olson (thru Michael Hall). Based on those facts and the
Rules and Regulations governing the AHA competition, it is clear that
the first and third place awards in the Traditional Mead category and
the BOS award, Mead Maker of the Year, and perhaps top club award
should all be changed.
First let me say that I know none of the principals involved personally.
Neither Byron Burch, Micah Millspaw, Gordon Olson, David Welker, ...
Nor do I question in any way the integrity or sincerity of any of the
people involved. In fact, it is transparent by Gordon's post that
he is conscientious, sincere, honest and well-intentioned. He should
be respected and commended both for the integrity he brought to the
competition as well as the candidness of his post.
However, the Rules and Regulations of the competition were not followed
on the last day of judging and this directly affected the outcome in
both the traditional mead class as well as BOS. The rules clearly
state that the BOS judging will involve the 1st place winners from
each class. A mistake was made, apparently by David Welker, in
bringing the 1st, 2nd, 3rd place to the BOS judging. The judges
then erred in judging the 6 meads although this is quite
understandable considering the organizer presented them for
judging. Finally, score sheets from the previous round were
altered in order that the BOS judging appeared to be within
the rules and regulations. In other words, the judges were aware
of the fact that they could not award the BOS award to the 3rd
place mead in a class.
These series of mistakes, however honest and well-meaning they were,
have seriously diminished the integrity of the competition. Fortunately,
I believe all of the data is available to correct these errors and
restore the credibility of the competition. The rules and regulations
were followed through the finals of each class judging. It is a
simple matter to award the proper award to Micah Milspaw and Byron
Burch based on those results. The BOS award should properly
be awarded to either Micah's mead or the 1st place mead from the
other category based on the scoresheets of the final day of
judging as the rules clearly suggest. That is easily done if
the AHA retains copies of the scoresheets. If the AHA does not
retain the scoresheets, it is not which of those 2, and only those
2, should get BOS. I would suggest it be awarded jointly in that
case. (i meant to say it is not CLEAR which of those, and only
those 2 should get BOS). Finally, it is my understanding that the
club competition was very close this year and i suspect that
a proper amendment of the results inthe mead competition might
well affect that as well.
I am not a judge nor a member of a club (except D.U.M.B., donalds
united making beer) nor have i entered a competition for several years.
But I do think competitions have a good deal of value for
homebrewing, but that value is greatly diminished if the integrity
of the competition is compromised as in this case. Hopefully, this
will be rectified by the AHA in the near future.
Finally, I wish to emphasize once again that I do not believe for
a second that Gordon Olson nor anyone else involved did anything
other than make an HONEST mistake.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 09:46:55 -0700
From: "Stephen Hansen" <hansen@gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Accessing the Homebrew Archives.
I apologize for the length of this but I think it's necessary given
the number of people having problems accessing the archives. Besides,
the length of the digests seems to have dropped a bit since the MALTMILL
lottery debacle.
The Homebrew Archive at Sierra.Stanford.EDU has been very active of
late. At the same time there have been a lot of errors reported when
people try of access files incorrectly. To help those of you who have
been having problems and to help keep my mailbox clean I thought I'd
post a short tutorial. Following are instructions for accessing the
archives either via ftp or via mail using the listserver. Appologies
to those of you to whom this is old news, but we were all young once :-).
FTP Access:
This is the preferred method. Use your local ftp program to connect
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your system can't resolve the name you can try using the IP address,
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Once logged in you connect to the homebrew directory.
cd pub/homebrew
The commands "dir" or "ls" will show you the files and directories
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get index
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binary
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cd 1992 get 1992/9206.shar.Z
get 9206.shar.Z
For those of you unfamiliar with Unix (tm) conventions, the parent
directory is referred to at "..", so to move up to the parent directory
you would type
cd ..
To make use of compressed (*.Z files) or uuencoded (*.uu or *.uue)
files you will need to have the uncompress or uudecode utilities on
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Listserver Access:
A listserver is available for those of you without ftp access. The
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index homebrew
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Here's an example of a request for the homebrew index file and a copy
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To: listserv@sierra.Stanford.EDU
Subject: (not required)
index homebrew
get homebrew 1991/9111.shar
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 09:32:51 PDT
From: Alan_D._Thomson.LAX1B@xerox.com
Subject: Re: Hydrometers
I would like to say thanks to everyone who responded. The final result is that
I will taste the runoff to determine when to stop. I've never used my
hydrometer and am in no hurry to start now.
Thanks again, and happy brewing
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 10:21:56 PDT
From: Mark_Davis.osbu_south@xerox.com
Subject: <topic>
I guess that there is a lot of interest in Maple Ale as I have had many
messages asking for a post on the recipe. Anyway I just used a basic pale ale
recipe and added the maple syrup. I decided to use Scottish crystal malt(I
bought it from the Home Winemaking and Brewing shop in woodland hills, Ca.(home
of the Maltose Falcons ;-)) because it had such a rich, thick, malty aroma. I
think that this would make a good base for a christmas ale by adding some
cara-pils(I think that a good christmas ale should be a little heavy in the
mouth feel), and an assortment of various spices and orange peel. The recipe
called for 5 lbs. of malt extract syrup. The reason for 5 lbs. not 6 was that I
had used the other pound for priming of another batch and also in making
starters for my yeast. Anyway here is the recipe:
Pale Maple Ale
6 gal. brewing water
5 lbs. Malt Extract Syrup(Amber)
0.5 lbs. Scottish Crystal Malt 80L
0.5 lbs. Wheat Malt(dry extract)
1 qt. Maple Syrup(Dark, Grade A)
1 oz. English Goldings hops (5.2%) 60 min. boil
0.5 oz. " " " (5.2%) 30 min. boil
0.5 oz. " " " (5.2%) 10 min. boil/steep
2 tsps. Irish Moss
2 tsps. Gypsum
1 pkg. Wyeast #1028 London Ale yeast
Procedure:
1. Prepaired yeast per instructions on package. When yeast pkg. was swollen I
added it to 500ml sterile starter.
2. I steeped the crack crystal malt in 2 qts. 150 F water for 30 min.(I put the
pot in the 150 F preheated oven) Sparged the grain into the boiling pot with
another 2 qts. of 170 degree water. Added enough water to bring volume in
boiling pot to 5 gallons. Brought this to a boil.
3. Added Malt Extract syrup, Wheat malt, gypsum, and 1 oz. hops. Boiled for 30
min.
4. After 30 min. of boil, I added 1 qt. Maple syrup and 0.5 oz. hops. boiled
for an additional 20 min.
5. At 50 min. mark of boil I added 2 tsps. Irish Moss and the last 0.5 oz. of
hops. I let this boil for additional 10 min. then covered, turned of flame, and
allow it to steep for 5 min.
6. Chilled, strained, and racked into primary fermenter. Pitch yeast.
SG 1.054
OG 1.008
Notes:
The ale was in the primary fermenter for about 5 days(it had a head on it that
was about 4 in. tall). Transfered to secondary and allowed to finish ferment
(another 7 days). I used 1.5 cups Malt extract to prime.
I tried the ale after 5 days in the bottle and was extremly pleased with the
brew. The only thing is that it is a little dry(lost some of it's
sweetness(maybe another 0.5 lb. of crystal)). I will do this one again, but I
think that I will use another yeast type (maybe Wyeast european ale #?).
(I hope this will be of some assitance. Sorry if I rambled on, but I think I
broke my little toe this morning and the medication is taking its toll)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 12:31 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Imperial Stouts
>From time to time I go off on a tangent and brew nothing but one
particular style of beer. I do this in the hopes of getting the style
down cold through repetition and experimentation.
My latest style of study has been Imperial Stouts. I have been brewing
this style all summer, ten batches all together. Talk about a beer out
of season. Ahhh, drinking a full-bodied, high gravity beer in the heat
of July (rawlp!).
Due to it's neutral qualities, I used Wyeast Chico ale yeast (#1056) for
all batches. Onc interesting discovery is that reusing the yeast cake
after a high gravity beer made the second beer exceptionally dry. In
fact the beers using repitched yeast were so dry they were unpleasant and
subsequently dumped.
Many interesting Imperial Stouts were produced. The one I liked the most
had all the trappings of an Imperial Stout but without that expected
alcoholic flavor. A Big Beer without the Burn. The alcoholic strength
was present but the corresponding alcoholic flavor was masked by the
"brick house" body. The beer was so thick it looked like 10-40w motor
oil. Really.
Imperial Stout
5.5 lb Belgian Pale malt
3.0 lb Dextrine malt
3.0 lb Belgian Carapils
2.0 lb Belgian Special-B
1.0 lb Wheat malt
1.0 lb Crystal malt (60L)
1.0 lb Belgian Biscuit
.75 lb Chocolate malt
.75 lb Black Patent
.50 lb Roasted Barley
2.0 lb Dark Brown Sugar
2 Licorice sticks
1 oz 60 min Bullion (10.0%)
1 oz 45 min Cascade (5.9%)
1 oz 30 min BC Kent Goldings (4.9%)
1 oz 15 min Fuggle (3.1%)
1 oz 0 min Mount Hood (3.5%)
Mashed 1 hour at 160 F
Collected 7.0 gallons, boiled down to 5.5 gallons.
OG 1.092 FG 1.032
Wyeast Chico ale yeast, 1 quart starter
chris campanelli
------------------------------
Date: 26 Sep 92 10:29:49 EDT
From: Jim Bayer <72416.1044@compuserve.com>
Subject: >Anyone hear of Thorsen Electric Bin?
I'm trying to get an opinion about a Bruheat knockoff called the Thorsen
Electric Bin. I haven't had much luck with response from the folks on
Compuserve. Has anyone out here used and/or heard of the Thorsen Electric
Bin?
>From the advertisement, I can tell that it is similar to the Bruheat anly it
is 117VAC and is a little slower to come to temp.
Any response will be appreciated.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 17:02 GMT
From: Peter Nesbitt <0005111312@mcimail.com>
Subject: Glass styles
Does anyone have any information on how glass styles came into existance?
What is the reasoning behind using a Pint Glass, Pilsner, Mug, etc?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 17:09 GMT
From: Peter Nesbitt <0005111312@mcimail.com>
Subject: Accessing the Archives
I have used MailServers and ListServers before, even Telnet and FTP commands,
but I am unable to retrieve files from the ListServ@sierra.stanford.edu.
Can someone help me out here?
I've read the help file and tried several variations of GET, but all that
I find in my mailbox is something like "...no such file exists."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 17:13 GMT
From: Peter Nesbitt <0005111312@mcimail.com>
Subject: Aerating wort
Over the last week I've seen several references to AERATION of wort. Sounds
like oxygenating the wort.
I'm a beginning homebrewer on my second batch. Is this something I need to
be concerned with?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 11:07:52 EDT
From: Andrew Patti <patti@ee.rochester.edu>
Subject: homebrew and headaches
I don't recall the specifics, but in Charlie P.'s book TNCJOHB
he mentions that using a blow off tube will force out some of
the nasties that "can" be attributed to causing headaches.
This was in one of the sections focusing on brewing with extracts.
I don't use a blow off tube myself, but haven't had a problem
with headaches either.
Andy.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 1992 20:57:18 -0600 (MDT)
From: MICHAEL BLAIR 6100 SEC 10 <MBLAIR@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu>
Subject: subscribing
I am interested in subscribing to HOMEBREW.
I am initially doing this as a class assignment. So, please have a
little leniency with me.
I have been making wine for eleven years and am interested in the
topic of home brewing.
My address in Internet is:
MBLAIR@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
I am a graduate student at the University of Colorado Denver.
Michael Blair
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #978, 09/28/92
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