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HOMEBREW Digest #0921
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 92/07/10 00:10:49
HOMEBREW Digest #921 Fri 10 July 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
That clove-like aroma (Conn Copas)
Extracts (JLAWRENCE)
Re: Getting that clove-like flavor from cloves (Steve Dempsey)
"mini-mashing" oats questions / Diastatic Malt Syrup (DMS) question (Steve Kennedy 08-Jul-1992 1119)
Lager yeast not ale (korz)
Cider and Perry making (Andy Phillips)
Clove flavor (korz)
Adjusting specific gravity (Steve Piatz)
Unrefrigerated kegs of HB (Kevin Yager)
funny smell and strawberries (jason)
CO2 tanks and fittings (Daniel Roman)
Ale yeasts at cold temp (The Rider)
Recipe: Really Bitter Dregs(tm) (Douglas DeMers)
Hunter Mt. Beer festival, New Goldfinch Amber Beer (GC Woods)
ale yeast ferments to freezing (NOT!) (Jay Hersh)
Re: Greg's cider question (CCASTELL)
Silcone-( (Nick Zentena)
Wit Beers in Texas? (C.R. Saikley)
San Diego Brewpubs (The Rider)
Growing Hops (ACS_JAMES)
maltmill (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
ReCycling Weizen Yeast (John Devenezia)
2 or 3 (Russ Gelinas)
Nut Brown Ale (Richard Stern)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 16:39:58 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: That clove-like aroma
We've had a bit of discussion about wiezen beers and their clove aromas
recently, so here goes my $0.02 worth. I can spot the influence of S. Delbru...
from a distance of about 2 miles. To me it is anything but sweet or estery;
on the contrary, I would describe it to an uninitiate as something like
rotten tomatoes. Alternative ways of achieving this phenolic sensation are
(a) getting a wild yeast infection, or (b) using Vierka lager yeast (not
really different from the previous option!). So what gives, am I ultrasensitive
or something ?
For those looking to culture from a hefeweizen, I can recommend that Falken's
brew (from Schaffhausen, in Switzerland) gives a culture with all the
desirable (?) characteristics of its parent.
- --
Loughborough University of Technology tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : (0509)610815
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1992 09:55:54 -0600 (MDT)
From: JLAWRENCE@UH01.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Extracts
I have recently come across a number of recipes I'd like to try
that use amounts of extracts that are less than a standard can.
I've found small cans (1.4 lb), large cans (6.6 lb), and middle
sized cans (3.3 lb). The three bears would be proud. However, I
have seen receipes that use, for example, a cup or 2 of 1 type of
extract, a couple of pounds of another, etc.
So, my question is:
1. Does the stuff keep? If I were to open a can and only
use half of it, how do I store the rest? I don't have enough
equipment to create more than one batch at a time.
2. What's the best way to measure it? Warm it first to
get it a bit less (more?) . . . um . . . viscous (right? the discussion
on viscosity vs. SG was interesting, but I'm not sure I got it all)?
Pour it into a bowl and weigh it on a kitchen scale? Sticky, I would
think, but not impossible. Does anybody have an easier way?
On another note, I was happily washing bottles last Sunday and
allowed the dreaded boilover to occur. This one was a beaut (and
what a waste of perfectly good wort :-( ). Does anybody have a good
way to clean those burner pans and rings? The SOS pad didn't get it
all, and I got real tired of scrubbing.
Thanks.
- Jane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 12:22:50 EDT
From: "John A. Shepherd" <jas8t@uva.pcmail.Virginia.EDU>
Hello All,
Pat writes:
>I enjoy the strong "clove like" flavor of certain weiss beers yet I haven't
>been happy with the results of kit weiss beers using the Wyeast wheat
strain.
>In this forum I have read that S. delbrueckii is what contributes the clove
>characteristic and that the Wyeast strain (3056) is 50/50 with something
else.
>Since I know of no access to pure S. delbrueckii and am not too interested
>in plating it out, has anyone out there tried adding cloves to either the
>primary or secondary?
I had the same complaint last summer so I tried what you propose. I looked
up my favorite christmas wassail recipe and found it called for 2 tsp. of
whole
cloves for 1 gallon. This sounded very excessive so I cut it by 1/8 which
still was about 1 tsp./5 gal. I added this to the boil with the malt.
Result: Way too much clove flavor for anything except a christmas beer.
I would cut this by 1/2 to 1/2 tsp./5 gal. if I was making the ale
over again.
I've been wanting to make a Berliner-weiss style beer and have been unable
to locate pure ( or mixed for that mater) lactobacillus. A Zymurgy
recipe used a Stoudt's Wheat culture for this style. The judge's comments
included "good lactic nose." Has anyone cultured Stoudt's Wheat
yeast and tried this? I can't get Stoudt's Wheat here in
Charlottesville, Va and want to know if it worth the drive to seek it out.
John Shepherd
jas8t@pcmail.virginia.edu
Univ. of Virginia
Charlottesville, Va
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 92 10:26:38 MST
From: Steve Dempsey <steved@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Subject: Re: Getting that clove-like flavor from cloves
In HBD #919, ssi!ppc@uunet.uu.net (Patrick P. Clancey) writes:
> Subject: Getting that clove-like flavor from cloves
> I enjoy the strong "clove like" flavor of certain weiss beers yet I haven't
> been happy with the results of kit weiss beers using the Wyeast wheat strain.
> ... has anyone out there tried adding cloves to either the primary or
> secondary?
I've not done this myself, but have tasted the results in competition.
The clove-*like* characteristic is a phenol compound produced by
the yeast (but you already knew that). It's called clove-like
for lack of a better interpretation of the flavor/aroma preceived
by your senses. The actual clove spice is something altogether
different.
The competition entry I tasted was entered in a wheat beer
category, supposedly as a weizen style. The description I gave
was `potpourri'; it had a sweet spicy character similar to mixed
cooking spices. It was nothing like the genuine weizen beer character.
If you like spiced ales, use cloves. If you want a traditional weizen
with the right flavor/aroma properties, you'll have to use the right
yeast.
I have used several strains of wheat beer yeasts including the
pure S. Delbrueckii sold by the now-defunct MeV labs, and
Wyeast's Bavarian Wheat. The pure culture definitely produces
a stronger clove character. The Wyeast mixed culture does
a fair job if fermented at warmer temperatures, e.g. 73-78F.
Still, the ale yeast in the mixed culture tends to take over
eventually and repitching results in progressively milder beers.
- -------------------------------- Engineering Network Services
Steve Dempsey Colorado State University
steved@longs.lance.colostate.edu Fort Collins, CO 80523
- -------------------------------- +1 303 491 0630
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 09:35:23 PDT
From: Steve Kennedy 08-Jul-1992 1119 <kennedy@ranger.enet.dec.com>
Subject: "mini-mashing" oats questions / Diastatic Malt Syrup (DMS) question
Hi. I'm fairly new to HBD (3 wks) and also to brewing (~1 yr).
I am planning on making an oatmeal stout within the next week or two and so
the current 'use of oats' discussion is of interest. I'm also an extract
brewer, so my knowledge of mashing (etc) at this time, is limited to what
I've read in passing in HBD and other related forums.
In HBD #919 Russ Wigglesworth writes:
> Mini-mashing isn't hard, just take equal amounts of the oats and 2 or 6
> row malt and combine with about 1 qt. of water per lb. Bring this to 155
> degrees for an hour and then rough sparge into your extract through a
> colander or grain bag with an amount of water equal to what you mashed
> with. By "rough" I mean just a simple rinse, no recirculation or trickle
> since you are looking for the oat character and not a significant yeild.
> Oats get pretty gummy so when in a 1 to 1 grain bed a stuck sparge is
> almost guaranteed.
I had heard/read that you need to mash the (rolled) oats, but never heard
you needed to mash it with equal amounts of X-row malt -- what are the
advantages to doing this over just mashing the oats by itself? is this
combination necessary? in trying to determine the amount of other
fermentibles to use in the recipe, how much should I expect the mashed oats
and/or malt to contribute?
responding to the same question re: oats, Brian Bliss writes:
> you must mash oatmeal or any other adjuncts before you add them to the boil.
> In fact, I won't even add malted specialty grains anymore unless they are
> mashed. If I'm trying to do a quick and dirty job and just want to add
> a half lb. of crystal malt or so, I'll steep it in 150F water and add an oz.
> of amylase enzyme.
I tend to start with the specialty grains (ex. crystal malt) in a gallon or
so of cold water, slowly bring the water up to boiling, and remove the
grains from the water just before the boil (or at ~180 degrees if I happen
to have the thermometer handy).
My question: how does mashing the specialty grains change their contribution
to the brew vs. using the procedure I've described (and usually use)?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lastly, I have a question regarding the use/advantages/disadvantages of
Diastatic Malt Syrup (DMS):
I thought I'd try using this as the basis for a light pale ale and was told
that because the DMS still contained active enzymes that I should mash the
adjunct pale malt (I was planning to use in the recipe) in the DMS. I guess
I'm looking for a confirmation on this and perhaps a little procedural
advice.
Thanks in advance to all,
\steve
=-=-=-=-=-=
Steve Kennedy Email: kennedy@ranger.enet.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corp. -or- kennedy%ranger.dec@decwrl.dec.com
30 Porter Road (LJO2/I4) -or- ...!decwrl!ranger.dec.com!kennedy
Littleton, MA 01460 Phone: (508) 486-2718
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 12:10 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Lager yeast not ale
JS writes:
>Based on the accepted fact that ale yeast ferments down to near freezing, I
>am curious to know what happens to wort/agar slants of yeast cultures stored
>in the fridge.
>
>Presumably, they would happily ferment to depletion and/or till the tube
>exlpodes if it is the screw cap type.
Oops! I think you mean lager yeast, don't you? Most ale yeasts generally
poop-out at about 50F and would probably expire as the temp approaches 32F.
You're right about them fermenting till depletion, though. What's wrong
with that? What you're trying to do, presumably, is to hold on to some
dormant yeast, so you put them at a low temp so that they are relatively
inactive. Autolysis is the great fear here, where the yeast secrete a
chemical that breaks down the cell walls of their surrounding brothers/sisters.
Then, they cannibalize. Ick!
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 18:18 GMT
From: Andy Phillips <PHILLIPSA@LARS.AFRC.AC.UK>
Subject: Cider and Perry making
Greg asks for advice for making cider and perry (pear cider). I've
only made the stuff from kits (it was 'orrible); however,
the Institute where I work was founded as the National
Fruit and Cider Research Institute,
although it now specializes in agricultural research (I'm a molecular
biologist working on Arabidopsis thaliana, as un-agricultural a weed
as you're likely to meet). However, the library still has cider-making
books, and I've done a bit of reading.
The traditional way of making
farmhouse (ie. homebrew) cider is simply to crush apples, press out
the juice and allow it to ferment without any additions, even yeast.
Fermentation relies on infection by wild yeasts from the air. You
could try this, but I wouldn't recommend it - there is no guarantee
that a suitable wild yeast will fall from the heavens, and there will
be plenty of other bugs waiting their chance to turn your apple juice
into cider vinegar. Your best bet is to try to sanitize the apple juice
in some way, and then add a starter of pure yeast.
You may have trouble finding suitable apples - in the West of England,
there are special apple varieties of cider apple. These are small and
very tart to taste - inedible, in fact. You may be able to mix cooking
apples (Bramleys?) with a smaller proportion of dessert apples. The apples
should be ripe enough for the skin to break if you stick your thumb in
hard. The cider brewery next door seems to leave the barrels of apples
and pears outside until they get _really_ squishy (and smelly).
Roughly crush the apples (eg in a barrel with a wooden pole) and
leave them to oxidise (this supposedly allows the tannins to cross-link
with proteins which then fall out in the fermentation vat). Extract the
juice using a press. The SG should be 1.045-1.065. You may
then try partly to sterilize in some way. Don't try to sterilize by heating:
this imparts a cooked taste to the cider. You could try a very small
quantity of sodium metabisulphite for a few hours (see recipes for
wine-making from fruit). Pitch the yeast (and I would add some yeast
nutrient) and ferment for about 2-4 weeks. This can be drunk immediately
("rough cider") or racked into secondary for up to 3 months. Don't worry
about the clarity: it's unlikely to drop clear, due to all the pectins. If
you're really confident about your sterilization, cider matures well in bottle.
One way of cutting down on contamination would be to boil a small
quantity of the juice and make up a starter with the yeast - this
large inoculum should compete out any unwanted strains, and the cooked
taste from the small volume of starter won't be noticeable.
A recipe for the best cider ("Nobs' cider") which I found goes:
1 gall apple juice (ie 1.25 US Galls)
0.75lb chopped muscatel raisins
0.5oz root ginger (crushed)
2" stick of cinnamon
Juice of 1 orange
This would turn out more like an apple wine, probably, and I would use
a wine yeast if you can't get hold of any unpasteurized cider to culture from.
Good brewing
Andy "Hope you can afford the postage, Jack" Phillips
Long Ashton Research Institute,
Bristol, UK
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 12:17 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Clove flavor
Pat writes:
>I enjoy the strong "clove like" flavor of certain weiss beers yet I haven't
>been happy with the results of kit weiss beers using the Wyeast wheat strain.
I've successfully been able to get very clovey aromas/flavors from
Munton & Fison's Muntona yeast (included in their ale kits and may
be available separately). At 70F, you'll get a LOT of clove character.
I too, did not get much cloveyness from Wyeast #3056.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 12:24:08 CDT
From: piatz@fig.cray.com (Steve Piatz)
Subject: Adjusting specific gravity
I recently had a need to determine the change in specific gravity due
to dilution with addition water. I ended up boiling my imperial stout
down to 4.75 gallons while getting my 60 minute boil after adding the
hops. I decided not to dilute until I went to the secondary and needed
to adjust my specific gravity measured in the primary. TNCJOHB, page
381 gives some tables for adjusting the specific gravity.
Unfortunately, they didn't come close to the 1.110 gravity I had. So I
decided to figure out the corrections using the following (I hope my
memory of physics classes from long ago is correct):
OG = the original gravity
FG = the final gravity
dvp = the additional water as a percent (5% == 0.05)
FG = (OG + dvp) / (1.0 + dvp)
Using the above, the following program will produce a simple
adjustment table
==================== cut here ===================
#include <stdio.h>
#define NUM_PERCENT 10 /* number of columns */
#define NUM_GRAVITY 30 /* number of rows */
#define PERCENT_STEP 0.05 /* percentage per column */
#define GRAVITY_STEP 0.005 /* gravity per row */
#define INITIAL_GRAVITY 1.010 /* gravity for first row */
#define INITIAL_PERCENT PERCENT_STEP /* percentage for first column */
main ()
{
int i;
int j;
float og, fg;
float dv;
float dvp;
printf (" | Dilution By\n");
printf (" O.G. | ");
for (j = 0; j < NUM_PERCENT; j++)
printf (" %3.0f%% ", 100.0 * PERCENT_STEP * (1 + j));
printf ("\n");
printf ("-------|-");
for (j = 0; j < NUM_PERCENT; j++) printf ("-------");
printf ("\n");
og = INITIAL_GRAVITY - GRAVITY_STEP;
for (i = 0; i < NUM_GRAVITY; i++) {
og += GRAVITY_STEP;
printf ("%6.3f | ", og);
dvp = INITIAL_PERCENT - PERCENT_STEP;
for (j = 0; j < NUM_PERCENT; j++) {
dvp += PERCENT_STEP;
fg = (og + dvp) / (1.0 + dvp);
printf ("%6.3f ", fg);
}
printf ("\n");
}
exit ();
}
====================== cut here ======================
The resulting table is
| Dilution By
O.G. | 5% 10% 15% 20% 25% 30% 35% 40% 45% 50%
- -------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1.010 | 1.010 1.009 1.009 1.008 1.008 1.008 1.007 1.007 1.007 1.007
1.015 | 1.014 1.014 1.013 1.012 1.012 1.012 1.011 1.011 1.010 1.010
1.020 | 1.019 1.018 1.017 1.017 1.016 1.015 1.015 1.014 1.014 1.013
1.025 | 1.024 1.023 1.022 1.021 1.020 1.019 1.019 1.018 1.017 1.017
1.030 | 1.029 1.027 1.026 1.025 1.024 1.023 1.022 1.021 1.021 1.020
1.035 | 1.033 1.032 1.030 1.029 1.028 1.027 1.026 1.025 1.024 1.023
1.040 | 1.038 1.036 1.035 1.033 1.032 1.031 1.030 1.029 1.028 1.027
1.045 | 1.043 1.041 1.039 1.037 1.036 1.035 1.033 1.032 1.031 1.030
1.050 | 1.048 1.045 1.043 1.042 1.040 1.038 1.037 1.036 1.034 1.033
1.055 | 1.052 1.050 1.048 1.046 1.044 1.042 1.041 1.039 1.038 1.037
1.060 | 1.057 1.055 1.052 1.050 1.048 1.046 1.044 1.043 1.041 1.040
1.065 | 1.062 1.059 1.057 1.054 1.052 1.050 1.048 1.046 1.045 1.043
1.070 | 1.067 1.064 1.061 1.058 1.056 1.054 1.052 1.050 1.048 1.047
1.075 | 1.071 1.068 1.065 1.062 1.060 1.058 1.056 1.054 1.052 1.050
1.080 | 1.076 1.073 1.070 1.067 1.064 1.062 1.059 1.057 1.055 1.053
1.085 | 1.081 1.077 1.074 1.071 1.068 1.065 1.063 1.061 1.059 1.057
1.090 | 1.086 1.082 1.078 1.075 1.072 1.069 1.067 1.064 1.062 1.060
1.095 | 1.090 1.086 1.083 1.079 1.076 1.073 1.070 1.068 1.066 1.063
1.100 | 1.095 1.091 1.087 1.083 1.080 1.077 1.074 1.071 1.069 1.067
1.105 | 1.100 1.095 1.091 1.087 1.084 1.081 1.078 1.075 1.072 1.070
1.110 | 1.105 1.100 1.096 1.092 1.088 1.085 1.081 1.079 1.076 1.073
1.115 | 1.110 1.105 1.100 1.096 1.092 1.088 1.085 1.082 1.079 1.077
1.120 | 1.114 1.109 1.104 1.100 1.096 1.092 1.089 1.086 1.083 1.080
1.125 | 1.119 1.114 1.109 1.104 1.100 1.096 1.093 1.089 1.086 1.083
1.130 | 1.124 1.118 1.113 1.108 1.104 1.100 1.096 1.093 1.090 1.087
1.135 | 1.129 1.123 1.117 1.112 1.108 1.104 1.100 1.096 1.093 1.090
1.140 | 1.133 1.127 1.122 1.117 1.112 1.108 1.104 1.100 1.097 1.093
1.145 | 1.138 1.132 1.126 1.121 1.116 1.112 1.107 1.104 1.100 1.097
1.150 | 1.143 1.136 1.130 1.125 1.120 1.115 1.111 1.107 1.103 1.100
1.155 | 1.148 1.141 1.135 1.129 1.124 1.119 1.115 1.111 1.107 1.103
Steve Piatz piatz@cray.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1992 13:28:44 -0400
From: ukcy@sunyit.edu (Kevin Yager)
Subject: Unrefrigerated kegs of HB
On Jul 7, 13:44, korz@iepubj.att.com wrote:
} Brian writes:
} > 5)After tapping how long will the beer stay good? Can you fill the keg
} >with co2 to make it last longer?(Oh, I forgot to mention I don't have the
} >facilitys to keep it cold after tapping.)
}
} You had better find a way to keep it cold. You also had better buy a CO2
} tank and regulator (it sounds like you don't have one). Refrigerated
} (if you have good sanitation) your kegged beer could stay good for a year.
} Unrefrigerated, well, I wouldn't recommend it.
}
} > Ok, here is how I plan to cool it. I bought a 20 qt. cooler and 25 ft
} >of stainless steel tubing in a coil that sits inside the cooler.
} > The beer comes from the keg thru a plastic tube to the cooler into a
} >coupler shank into the stainless steel tubing into a faucet and shank set.
} >Wala! beer!
} > I figure 5 min after I place Ice on the coil I should have cold brew in
} >the mug. I'll use silcon to prevent leakage were I drill out the cooler.
} > I have ordered most of the equipment for this project for under $100.00
} >>From SuperiorProducts out of St.Paul Minn.(no affiliation)
}
} A used chest freezer with a Hunter Airstat thermostat is the best way to go.
} I suspect you will have trouble with carbonation since the solubility of
} CO2 varies greatly with temperature. I've tried dispensing cool beer through
} a jockeybox (what you described) and had a heck of a time getting the CO2
} to stay in the beer.
} Al.
}-- End of excerpt from korz@iepubj.att.com
Can anyone add to Al's observations on this topic. I plan to start kegging
with my next batch of beer. I don't have a place to keep kegs cold. I
do have a small dorm sized refrigerator which I plan to run some tubing
through. Effectively the same as a "jockeybox".
The kegs will be kept in my cellar at around 65 deg f.
I have always thought that the beer would keep for a time as long as it was
not in contact with air.
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 92 09:56:37 -0700
From: jason@beamlab.ps.uci.edu
Subject: funny smell and strawberries
A couple of questions:
My friend and I made a quicky extract/specialty grain batch on Friday.
We put 1/2 pound of ground chocolate grains in one of my girlfriends
old white nylons and began to heat the water to about 170 F at about
150 F or a little less we noticed this awful plastic like smell that
seemed very wrong and toxic. It eventually went away (we didn't just
get used to the smell we had others come in and smell) when the water
got close to 170 F. The smell seemed to come from the water and not
the nylons (tested by pulling the nylons out of the water and sticking
out noses on them).
Does this type of grain usually produce a disturbing odor in the process
of heating? The grains were a few months old. Does this matter?
ALSO:
When it comes time to bottle, I only want to bottle 3/4 of the batch.
I would like to add strawberries to the remaining 1/4.
Question: Do you think I should just leave the 1/4 in the fermenter along
with the trub and settlement and just add the strawberries to this?
Or Should I rack the 1/4 to a seperate container and then add the
stawberries? (Will there be enough yeast in suspension?)
I have some pectic enzyme--should I use any of this?
Comments?
Ayudame, lo necesito.
Jayscum
P.S. I dropped a hop pellet in a can of bud and voila-Budweiser with tast
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 13:47:56 EDT
From: roman@tix.timeplex.com (Daniel Roman)
Subject: CO2 tanks and fittings
I recently inherited a couple of soda kegs (ball lock) which are in good
shape. I called a couple of local soda distributors about CO2 tanks and
hoses and they either did not want to deal with me or were charging $85
for just the 5 lb tank unfilled. So, a couple of questions:
- Is a 5 lb tank adequate? I wounldn't be dealing with more than two
kegs at a time. They are 5 gal. kegs.
- Can someone suggest any mail order or sources of used tanks,
especially if someplace has experience with homebrewers and their
particular needs.
(Now all I have to do is convince my wife that we don't need the shelves
in the fridge and that two kegs and a CO2 tank won't take up that much
room). Refridgerators are expensive.
- --
______________________________________________________________________
Dan Roman | /// Internet: roman_d@timeplex.com
Timeplex Inc. | \\\/// GEnie: D.ROMAN1
Woodcliff Lake, NJ | \XX/ Only AMIGA! Homebrew is better brew.
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1992 11:59:27 -0800
From: mfetzer@ucsd.edu (The Rider)
Subject: Ale yeasts at cold temp
Jack writes:
Ale yeast.....
Based on the accepted fact that ale yeast ferments down to near freezing,
I
am curious to know what happens to wort/agar slants of yeast cultures
stored
in the fridge.
Presumably, they would happily ferment to depletion and/or till the tube
exlpodes if it is the screw cap type.
Seems like in the best of cases, one would end up with tired out old yeast
if
it was stored for more that a couple of weeks.
Say what? Did you mean Lager yeast here, or is there something I'm not
aware of? In any case, we have taken yeast cake from the bottom of primary
ferment, put it in 12 ounce bottles at about a 50/50 yeast to
semi-fermented wort ratio, and stored these in the fridge for later use.
The longest we ever kept one of these may have been around 6 weeks, but it
certainly took off like a banshee. Only in one instance did the yeast not
take off after being stored in such a manner, and that was stored
substantially longer, I believe.
As far as tired old yeast goes, well, how would the yeast you're proposing
to freeze be worse off than something you find at the bottom of a bottle of
Sierra Nevada? In either case, you need to allow the yeast to build up its
cell walls again before you expect it to go to work for you. :)
Mike
- --
Michael Fetzer
Internet: mfetzer@ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet: FETZERM@SDSC
HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 13:42 PDT
From: dougd@uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers)
Subject: Recipe: Really Bitter Dregs(tm)
Here's a recipe for a brew I've particularly liked. It's somewhat in
the style of a Brown Porter, although really a little too hoppy for
that style. The origins of this brew are somewhat amusing (IMO) -
Martin Lodahl and I were lamenting (electronically) about our
respective jobs; the condition of the world, etc., and I recalled the
phrase "Oh, bitter dregs..." from the song. Some electronic musing over
"bitter dregs" ensued, and the rest, as they say, is history. The
recipe is toned down from the original hopping rate, but I believe even
a hop-head will enjoy this brew. Tasty stuff, that!
Really Bitter Dregs(tm)
by invitation only.
send your resume to the Really Bitter Dregs selection committee ;-)
Ingredients -
6 lbs 2-row pale malt
3 lbs Munich Malt
16 oz black patent malt
4 oz Crystal Malt (80L)
12 AAU (~1.0 oz @11.6) Centennial hops (bittering) (Oops!)
9.5 AAU (~0.75 oz @12.6) Chinook hops (bittering) (Oops!)
1/2 oz Cascades (steep)
1 oz Kent Goldings (dry hop at rack to secondary)
Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale)
1.5 qt gyle (or 1/2 cup corn sugar) (priming)
Process -
All brewing water pre-boiled and decanted from sediment.
Mash water: 11 qts @ 140F
Mash-in: 3 min @ 135F, pH 5.0
Protein rest: none
Conversion: 30 minutes @ 145F (step infusion) (See Notes)
45 minutes @ 155F (step infusion)
Mash-out: 5 min @ 170F (See Notes)
Sparge: 6 gal, pH ???, 170F (Increased from 5 gallons)
Boil: 90 min. Centennial addition @ 30 minutes into boil,
Chinook @60 minutes; Cascades added and steeped 45 minutes at
end of boil (while chilling).
Dry hop at rack to secondary.
Initial runnings 070 - final runnings 020.
OG: ~046. FG: ~015.
Notes:
I overshot temperature on initial conversion ("cajun cookers" have
their disadvantages!) but dropped back into range with a couple minutes
in a water bath. No doubt affected extraction efficiency. Next time,
I'll use the vernier rocket (hot plate) instead of the main thrusters!
Forgot to raise to Mash-out temp - had to dump back from lauten tun
into the boiler. Grrrrrr.....
Additional 1 gallon of sparge was prepared when gravity of runnings was
so high. Even after an addition gallon of sparge, the runnings were
high, IMO. The little red worms in the compost heap were happy,
though! Next time, I'll use more gypsum to bring the ph down to 5.7!
About the hops. When it came time to add bittering hops, I went to the
freezer, and grabbed Centennial instead of Chinook. (What can I say?
They both start with `C'. Honest, I only had consumed about 3/4 of a
homebrew!) I realized my mistake later when rooting around for the
Cascades. So, with still 30 minutes left in the boil, I added some
Chinook for the last 30 minutes.
The Cascades were steeped longer than intended. The boil ended just at
dinner time, so I put the hops in and left them while we ate. Midway
through dinner, I realized that I hadn't sterilized the chiller, so
that added another 30 minutes to the steep.
Chilled to pitch temperature, strained into the primary carboy,
aerated, and pitched the yeast (which was at high krausen). I checked
an hour later, and there was positive outflow through the blowoff
tube.
Racked to secondary a week later, with the Golding dry-hopped at that
time. (Put the hops into the secondary and racked onto them.) Bottled
3.5 weeks later primed with 1.5 quarts of gyle.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 92 17:05:33 EDT (Wed)
From: GC Woods <gcw@garage.att.com>
Subject: Hunter Mt. Beer festival, New Goldfinch Amber Beer
Does anyone have any information regarding the Internation Beer Festival
being held at Hunter Mountain, NY this weekend?
Also I read an article about a new brew being offered in NJ - Goldfinch
Amber Beer - by the Goldfinch Brewing Company in Mt. Laurel. The picture
shows the beer in a 12oz bottle, so I am assuming it must be a contract
beer. Has anyone tried this beer or know who brews it?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 92 17:44:27 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: ale yeast ferments to freezing (NOT!)
Jack sez:
> Ale yeast.....
Based on the accepted fact that ale yeast ferments down to near freezing, I
am curious to know what happens to wort/agar slants of yeast cultures stored
in the fridge.
What ale yeast is this?? Did you mean lager yeast. All the Ale yeasts I have
ever used tend to floculate out and go dormant when I drop them to cold
temperatures (like say below 45F), in fact I, and many many brewers
commerical and home, rely on this behavior to stop fermentation and
clarify the beer, it even has a technical name for it, called cold conditioning.
Care to enlighten us???
JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 92 16:48
From: sherpa2!CCASTELL.ELDEC%mailsrv2@sunup.West.Sun.COM (CCASTELL)
Subject: Re: Greg's cider question
In HBD 919, Greg asked:
> Can anyone out there in HBD-land provide me with a good recipe for apple
> or pear cider. What are the pitfalls?
The most recent issue of Zymurgy has an informative article on making
cider. I've learned quite a lot from it, and have 5 gallons of a new
recipe bubbling away in my garage right now! :-) The Cat's Meow II
also has some recipes that look like they're on the right track.
For what it's worth, the following recipe won the AHA cider competition
this year:
Hard Core XXX Cider
3 gallons cider (allegedly made from Johnagolds)
6 Campden tablets
3 oz. lactose
12 oz. can frozen concentrated Seneca Granny Smith apple juice
16 oz. can frozen concentrated TreeTop apple juice
Vintner's Choice Pasteur Champagne yeast
Pour cider into 3 gallon carboy with 6 crushed Campden tablets.
Add yeast after two days. Ferment for three weeks at approximately
68 degrees.
Oops! That's a little too dry. Rack to keg, adding three ounces
lactose. Force carbonate for two weeks.
Damn! Still doesn't taste quite right. Add some apple juice
concentrate to get an apple taste.
Filter with 0.5 micron filter and force recarbonate. Bottle using
counter-pressure bottle filler.
Comments:
The most important thing I've found is getting fresh juice (freshness
shouldn't be a problem if you're pressing your own) that tastes like
apples. This is sometimes a little harder than it might sound. In
Washington, the majority of apples grown are "eating" apples, rather
than juice or cooking apples. The Johnagold apple juice I used didn't
have sufficient "apple taste", so after the sugar had fermented away,
there wasn't much taste left. I put some apple taste in with the
concentrates. (The current batch I'm making uses juice from Red
Delicious and Granny Smith apples, but still doesn't have a strong
apple taste, even before fermenting.) I'm told that blends of different
types of apples work better than juice from a single type.
You might want to keep on eye (taste bud?) on the fermentation and
stop it before it completes, or use a different type of yeast that
won't take it so far. Mine was bone dry after three weeks, so I
sweetened it up some with the lactose.
Above all, relax, have a homebrew, and don't worry about it.
Chances are, it will turn out great.
Good luck
Charles Castellow
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1992 17:17:58 -0400
From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead@canrem.com>
Subject: Silcone-(
Well I decided to make some phone calls today. Checked the
yellow pages and came up with a local caulking supplier. He
called his suppilers[I think DOW and another company] who
stated that none of thier products were foodgrade. Seems
they have some nasties in the base.
Guess I'll have to find another idea-(
Nick
*****************************************************************************
I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles!
zen%hophead@canrem.com
*****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 92 14:29:11 PDT
From: grumpy!cr@uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Wit Beers in Texas?
There is an interesting story behind how Belgian beer came to be brewed
in Texas, where the Celis brewery in Austin has recently come to market with
its products. Mr. Celis formerly brewed in Belgium, and was too successful
for his own good.
In previous times, the eastern part of Brabant province was a major brewing
center. It is here that we find the town of Hoegaarden (pronounced who-garden),
whose brewing heritage goes back at least as far as the 1300's, and probably
farther. Hoegaarden was known for its Wit beers.
Belgian Wit beers are light refreshing brews made with about 50% unmalted
wheat and 50% malted barley. Sometimes a small portion of raw oats is added.
The beers are very pale, and given a milky appearance by a highly non-flocculant
yeast strain. They are very lightly hopped, but often spiced with coriander
and orange peels. They are popular summer drinks.
The usual market forces and two world wars caused a decline in the importance
of this region as a brewing center. Smaller breweries were closing, consumption
of mass marketed Pils was on the rise and by the mid 1950's, the last brewer of
Wit beers was defunct. The style appeared to be extinct.
Pieter Celis had lived near an old brewery that produced Wit beers, and
felt that the style could be revived. Acting on that idea, he purchased
equipment from a defunct brewery, and in 1966 his De Kluis brewery started
making Hoegaarden Wit beer. Much to Celis' surprise, the beer was extremely
popular, especially among younger drinkers. Soon he was unable to keep up
with demand and the so the brewery was expanded.
In order to finance the expansion, Celis sought an investor to take on as
a partner. The two owned equal shares of the brewery with Celis being the
more active partner. A period of phenomenal growth ensued. Wit beers were
becoming more and more popular, and Celis was doubling his production on
an annual basis.
The growth rate proved to be too extreme, and it was hard to make ends meet.
This may be hard to picture for those not close to the business world, but
too much growth places excessive strain on a business' resources. For example,
if this year's malt bill is twice as much as last year's, and the money
available to pay this year's bills is based on last year's production, then
it's tough to cover expenses.
This is exactly what happened, and the De Kluis brewery was unable to make
payments to their supplier of malt. Mr. Celis made a deal with the head
of the malthouse whereby the maltster would get shares of the brewery instead
of cash payments. What Celis didn't know was that the maltster (appropriately
named Mr. Wolf) had ties to brewing giant Interbrew.
It seems that the little brewery had been too successful in reviving a style,
and had attracted the attention of the big guys. Soon Mr. Wolf's shares were
in Interbrew's hands, and they were busy courting De Kluis' investment
partner as well. When the partner sold out, Mr. Celis found himself to be
the minority shareholder in the brewery he founded. Interbrew felt they no
longer needed Celis around, and squeezed him out of the business. His success
was his own downfall.
The revival of Wit beers has continued, and they are very popular in cafes
all over Belgium today. Even cafes with very modest beer selections typically
offer a Wit beer. As a result, many other breweries around the country have
capitalized on this and started brewing their own Wits. It has become a very
trendy style of beer, and is now eschewed by hard core beer fans as no longer
being the noble beverage it once was. Readers in Oregon may see a similarity
to the Widmer Hefeweizen phenomenon.
Meanwhile, Mr. Celis decided that he'd had enough of his battles with
Interbrew. Like so many Europeans before him, he has sought refuge in
the US. He's brewing in Austin and his beers are available there. They
will soon become available in California, and other selected markets.
Let's hope he's not *too* successful this time.
Cheers,
CR
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 03:56:57 -0800
From: mfetzer@ucsd.edu (The Rider)
Subject: San Diego Brewpubs
Oh oh oh me! me! me! Finally a topic I'm an expert on... :*)
>On another topic, I will be traveling to San Diego soon and would like up-to- date info on brewpubs and bars with great tap beer. I searched through the old digests and came up with these brewpubs:
>Pacific Beach Brewhouse
>La Jolla Brewing Co.
>Callahan's
>Old Columbia Brewing Co.
>Mission Brewery
PB: Nice atmosphere, but lately the beer is lousy. I've stopped going
there, since I was sorely disappointed with things last time. It's close to
the beach, I'd recommend stopping by for a pint of Stout, and *do* let me
know if they improved things.
LJB: My absolute favorite in town. Great atmosphere (not many yuppies)
Excellent porter, and a wonderful happy hour 4-6 M-F, $5 pitchers! Great
food.
Callanhans: a bit like a dungeon... not impressed with their bitters (but
then I'm racist when it comes to beer... I'm into the black stuff, which
they were out of) They serve non micro brewed beers there, too, just in
case you can't handle their own.
Old Columbia: Haven't been there in a long time, I must admit. Yuppie city,
since it's close to downtown. Bring a white shirt and red tie. Their beers:
generally a light, an amber, and a dark. I'v never been impressed with the
light and dark, but the amber is quite good.
Mission Brewery: went bankrupt before they ever opened. Nice building, tho.
Others you didn't mention:
Brewskie's: Again, yuppie at hell. It's around 4th and G, but don't quote
me. Beers are ok, their stout is nice. They also have a happy hour on about
the same terms as LJB.
The Red Kettle? I think that's what it's called, in Encinitas. Well, they
were out of everything the day I went there, and I haven't gone back. They
do have Anchor (I think!) Porter on tap, so that saved the day. Other than
that, hm... somehow it was lacking atmosphere, but I have friends that
quite like the place and were surprised the day I went, at how different
things are from normal.
Overall, LJB takes the cake. Be there any Friday around 5, find me, and
I'll buy you a beer. :)
I'm the guy at the table with the 3 pitchers of porter... Seriously...
email me if you make it down here on the weekend, we're always down there,
and I'd like to meet some of these HBD folk.
Mike
- --
Michael Fetzer
Internet: mfetzer@ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet: FETZERM@SDSC
HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM
------------------------------
Date: 09 Jul 1992 09:08:17 -0500 (EST)
From: ACS_JAMES@VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU
Subject: Growing Hops
While I haven't started brewing yet, I accepted a hops plant from a friend
of mine to see how it would grow on my farm. I planted it in a partially
shaded area along a creek and it is growing like crazy. This is it third
year. Last year it produced a few hops. The plant was described as a
"common hops." Now for a few questions:
1. what is common hops?
2. can common hops be used for brewing or other purposes?
3. the plant has been getting a white mold on some of its
leaves, is this caused by the damp, shaded location?
4. do I need to be concerned about the mold? If so, can
it be treated?
Thanks for any information you care to share.
James W. Wilson, Manager Internet acs_james@vax1.acs.jmu.edu
Media Technology Lab Bitnet acs_james@jmuvax
James Madison University
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 9:28:19 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: maltmill
If it is free is is for me, sorry about this, but I'm not proud.
B^2
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 08:46:01 -0500
From: devenzia@euler.jsc.nasa.gov (John Devenezia)
Subject: ReCycling Weizen Yeast
I brewed an (IMHO) excellent wheat beer about three months
ago using a Wyeast Wiezen culture. It came out so good that
I've done a Rasberry Wheat and am about to do a DunkleWeisse.
I thought it would be a good thing to to re-use the yeast from
my first batch (in the form of bottle leavings) on my next couple
of wheat beers.
As I was culturing last night (4 tablespoons dried wheat malt extract,
1 pint of water; boiled) I got to thinking, does one of the strains
take dominence in the bottle? As everyone know the Wyeast Weizen product
is actually a mix of two yeast strains. If one strain (say the noraml
Ale strain) survives the dormacy period better will my beer be un-balanced.
So my question is; Has anyone successfully re-used the Wyeast _Weizen_
strain?
Brew on Dude,
John D.
devenzia@euler.jsc.nasa.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 10:15:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: 2 or 3
An easy way to remember which keg fitting (2 pins or 3 pins) goes
with which dip tube (co2 or liquid) is to think that the beer tube
is "more important", and so has a higher number of pins.
Russ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 8:37:44 MDT
From: Richard Stern <rstern@col.hp.com>
Subject: Nut Brown Ale
Does anyone have a recipe for a Nut Brown Ale that is similar to
Samual Smith's Nut Brown? All-grain preferred, but if you have an
extract that would be OK.
Thanks,
Richard Stern
rstern@col.hp.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #921, 07/10/92
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