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HOMEBREW Digest #0922
This file received at Sierra.Stanford.EDU 92/07/14 00:10:34
HOMEBREW Digest #922 Tue 14 July 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Digest Backlog (rdg)
Short Fermentation Mead (Vote Libertarian in '92!)
Bubbles in your Jockeys! (Vote Libertarian in '92!)
Berk. pubs (doug)
modified malts and British beers (Tony Babinec)
100 years of the Crown cap. What's being done? (LEHMANN)
Sparging Efficiency (DLK)
Brewing with fresh hops... (Sean_Conway.LOTUS)
Brewing with fresh hops...
RE:$40 Frige Controller ("Franklin R. Jones")
Re: Homebrew Digest #920 (July 09, 1992) (Sheridan J. Adams)
Cascade vs Centenial hops (Richard Stern)
Re: Homebrew Digest #920 (July 09, 1992) (jcb)
Questions... (Scott James.)
Re: modified malts and British beers (fwd) (Tony Babinec)
Target hops, Sherlock's Home brewpub (Rick Larson)
boiling in 2 pots (Richard Stern)
SMOKED BEER (ALTENBACH)
Al's jockeybox (Tony Long)
Bottling my cyser (Chuck Coronella)
CLEAR BEER (Joe Rolfe)
Re: ROOTBEER (popowich)
Re: malts... (Rick Larson)
Low alcohol beer (oh no, not again!) (Chuck Coronella)
I'll play (Micheal Yandrasits)
Rauchbier (jcb)
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Solicitaion ("C_TOWNSEND")
grain conversion ("B_HADLEY")
Blueberry Beer, Keg Scratches ("John Cotterill")
A call for a mead addict! (The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.)
Success Re-using yeast cake - WOW! (smc)
Wheat Beers (John Freeborg)
Great Taste of the Midwest (Tony Ernst)
Belgian ale (Rob Bradley)
dry ratio (C05705DA)
Wyeast types (Richard Stern)
honey lager ("B_HADLEY")
conversion ("B_HADLEY")
yeast ("B_HADLEY")
Inexpensive Temp Control (lee_menegoni)
Sparge Water pH (John Freeborg)
I win! (Jacob Galley)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 92 12:38:05 MDT
From: rdg@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Digest Backlog
Hi folks, sorry about the digest delay. The volume of incoming articles
finally overwhelmed my simple scheme for handling homebrew article
overflow. I've just rewritten it to avoid this problem in the future,
but now there is a 4 day backlog of articles to be digested. If you
submit an article now, don't worry if it doesn't appear immediately-
all the previously submitted articles must be sent out first.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 08:52:45 CDT
From: smith%8616.span@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov (Vote Libertarian in '92!)
Subject: Short Fermentation Mead
Somebody whose name I deleted wrote something like:
>I'm looking for short-fermentation mead recipes.
Check Dave Miller's Handbook of Home Brewing for a "mead ale" recipe.
The recipe I use, which is strictly experimental (but I like it) is:
5-7 lb honey (usually the stuff from Sam's in the 1/2 gal. jug)
2 cracked cinnamon sticks
20 cracked allspice
other flavorings like ginger, hops, orange peel, nutmeg etc.
maybe a couple pounds fruit
Edme ale yeast
My hypothesis, which has a little data to support it, is that boiling
the honeywort reduced fermentation time (while also removing a lot of
the honey essence, I imagine). Note that the above is a 5 gal. batch.
I don't have a hydrometer so I can't guess the OG or FG, but this
stuff is pretty thin (see my plea for ideas a couple of HBD's ago).
Fermentation takes 2-3 weeks, sometimes I rack, sometimes not. Basically
I don't put much effort into this stuff; hell, it's 97 degrees here and
I'm not running my AC enough to get the temperature down past 80, so why
try to make anything award-winning when it's doomed to failure?
Another note: Some people recommend using champagne yeast for mead. I
have used Red Star champagne yeast twice. Once the nasty taste went
away after 4 months; the second try is still nasty after that long. No
infection (at least no obvious one), just an unpleasant taste.
Please, improve on my methods here, I'd love to get a better product for
not much more work....
| James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP-53 | SMITH%8616.span@fedex.msfc.nasa.gov |
| "I'm looking California, and feeling Minnesota" -- Soundgarden |
| Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa. |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 08:54:16 CDT
From: smith%8616.span@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov (Vote Libertarian in '92!)
Subject: Bubbles in your Jockeys!
Russell Owen <OWEN@VAXE.NIEHS.NIH.GOV> wrote:
>Al (korz@iepubj.att.com) wrote
>>"I suspect you will have trouble ... since the solubility of
>>CO2 varies greatly with temperature," saying that he had
>>trouble keeping the cold beer carbonated.
>Gases are *more* soluble in water as temperature drops,
>and I suspect that beer is enough like water for this to hold
>true in brew.
>Specifically, the solubility of CO2 in H2O (ml per 100 ml @ 760 mmHg)
>is 171 @ 0 degrees C,
>is 88 @ 20 "
>and 36 @ 60 ".
Okay, I'm going to show my ignorance here. It seems to me that if you
have good carbonation in a warm keg, then cool the beer as it comes out,
you'll have the CO2 happily in solution with no desire to come out of
solution (i.e. produce bubbles). Wouldn't you need to have extra
pressure in the keg with a jockeybox setup, to insure proper carbonation
at the dispensing temperature? Ack, that would cause dispensing
problems unless you had a second regulator between the keg and the
jockeybox, wouldn't it? Hey, just because I work with applied
thermodynamics every day doesn't mean I know diddly about kegging. :)
4-aminobiphenyl, hexachlorobenzene/Dimethyl sulfate, chloromethyl methylether/
2, 3, 7, 8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin, carbon disulfide/Dibromochloropane,
| James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP-53 | SMITH%8616.span@fedex.msfc.nasa.gov |
chlorinated benzenes / 2-nitropropane, pentachlorophenol / Benzotrichloride,
strontium chromate/1,2-dibromo-3-chloropropane/Watch it run straight down.....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 09:09:46 EDT
From: doug <doug@metabolism.bitstream.com>
Subject: Berk. pubs
Hello:
Sorry, but I seem to have lost the list of brew sights in Bezerkly
CA. Could anyone who saved it please drop me the list.
Thanks in advace.
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Allison, my ale is true...
Doug Connolly Bitstream, Inc. (617) 497-6222
uunet!huxley!doug 215 First St. X618
doug@bitstream.com Cambridge, MA 02142
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 9:41:00 CDT
From: tony@spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: modified malts and British beers
Pale ale malt is "highly modified," but so is most widely available
U.S. lager malt. The modification of pale ale malt facilitates the
single step infusion mash, which is relatively easy to perform. With
less modified malt, one might instead use a step infusion mash or even
a decoction mash. See Greg Noonan's book for the reasons to use
decoction mashes on undermodified malt. From past discussions on HBD,
as well as lots of visits to U.S. brewpubs, it seems that U.S. malts
are mashed in single step infusion mashes with good results.
Now, pale ale malt is also more highly-kilned than U.S. lager malt, and
will pound for pound produce a "darker" beer--red-amber versus gold-straw.
Color adjustments can be made with crystal malt in small additions.
Another brewing issue, if I'm remembering correctly, is that lager malts
carry precursors of dms, a flavor appropriate up to a point in lagers but
not in ales.
Beyond the above general points, we're treading on near-religious :-)
ground. Some might say that in the end you should use British malts for
British beers, as that's what they do and there are subtleties of flavor
imparted. Most U.S. commercial brewers and pubs, you can be sure, do
not import British malts, but instead use local malts. The American
Pale Ale style is a consequence. Aside from malts, hops are a very
important part of the style, with Americans employing Cascade,
Willamette, and other Northwest hops. World-class beers such as Sierra
Nevada Pale Ale are the result. But, SNPA is quite different in taste
from Fuller's E.S.B!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 10:29 EST
From: LEHMANN%OPUS%MCOIARC.BITNET@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: 100 years of the Crown cap. What's being done?
William Painter was awarded 3 U.S. patents for bottle sealing devices, i.e.
metal bottle caps, in 1892. While the original liners have changed over the
years - slices of cork, cork composites [remember those bits floating in the
brew?], plastics - , and there have been some adaptations to the cap that have
come around, the Crown cap is very much part of our culture and if you look atr
the original drawings, published a century ago, you can't mistake it.
I know brewers think of their tradition in terms of millenia, but does anyone
know if there is any special celebration of this invention? Though the cap
allowed the development of the super-sized brewery catering to the vulgar
palate, thereby making commercial beers in the USA less interesting as
they infiltrated the nation, I expect most of us consider this small item a
great boon to our hobby.
Paul Lehmann, Toledo, Ohio
lehmann%opus@mcoiarc.bitnet
lehmann@opus.iarc.mco.edu (Internet)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 10:36:15 EDT
From: DLK%sybil@rti.rti.org
Subject: Sparging Efficiency
This is my MALTMILL lottery ticket. Perhaps, I'll do better than I
normally do with contests. :)
But I do have a question: How do I find out the maximum specific
gravity of different malts? I've looked at the available software
programs, and I get two different answers. For example, one says Pale Ale
malt is 1.036 and the says 1.032. I know it's not much of a difference,
but I'm trying to figure out my sparging efficiency. It can make as much
as a 10% difference!
If you point me in the right direction (books, magazines, articles,
experience, etc.), I'll summarize for the digest. Thanks!
Dan Keever
INTERNET: dlk@zeus.rti.org
BITNET: dlk@rti
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 09:46:29 EDT
From: Sean_Conway.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: Brewing with fresh hops...
~~inner_header~~
To: UNIXML::"homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
Subject: Brewing with fresh hops...
I'll be picking fresh hops in about a month or so and am wondering if anyone
knows a rule of thumb in terms of how many oz(s) of fresh hops is equivalent to
1 oz of hop plugs/leafs/pellets. I'm assuming the weight of fresh hops cones
is greater than what you buy at the homebrew store since there is more water
(not as dried out.)
Is this a true assumption or can I just measure out my standard oz(s) is not
get too bitter of a beer?
No, this isn't a silly question as an attempt to be the 100th entry for the
MALTMILL.
OK, OK, so it is. just send the MALTMILL over to me now.
Sean
------------------------------
Date: 09 Jul 1992 08:46:55 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Franklin R. Jones" <FRANK@VA5549.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: RE:$40 Frige Controller
the Hunter Energy Monitor: Called an Air Stat on the packaging,
Model 42205 (there is a 42206 for 220, but you have to order it)
built by:
Hunter Fan Company
2500 Frisco Ave.
Memphis, TN 38114
P# 901-745-9222 CT 8AM-5PM
You can buy these at Builder's Square for $28. The operation is simple: Plug
the frige/freezer into the monitor, plug the monitor in the wall, put the probe
(has four feet of wire) in the frige/freezer, set the monitor to the desired
temp, and your off. The monitor will handle 15 Amps, and has programming modes
for running a Air Conditioner, but aren't really needed. (just override for the
temp you want and put it in bypass) temp range is from 40 to 90 degrees, and
will keep temp -1...+2 degrees from that. WOrks by cycling the power to the
Frige, will stay off for min of 4 mins, to save ware & tear on the compessor.
Very good unit, simple to install.
One Weak Point: it runs off of a AA battery, if the battery runs down the unit
will not work! e.g. the frige will be *off*! So one needs to figure out a way to
remind oneself to change it.
fj..
Franklin R. Jones Information Resource Management Service (IRMS)
System Manager/Ops Chief (read that as systems haque)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VA Medical Center (303) 393-2881
1055 Clermont St. or (303) 399-8020 x2175
Denver, CO 80220 fax (303) 355-5105
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If we aren't supposed to play with words...
Then why do we have so many?"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 10:33:17 -0500
From: sja@snoid.cray.com (Sheridan J. Adams)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #920 (July 09, 1992)
On Jul 9, Russell Owen wrote:
>
>
> My note on the possible hazards of genuine rootbeer
> elicited a response from D. Popowich asking for details.
> ...
>
> Root beer is flavored with a distillate of the young shoots
> or root bark of _Sassofras_variifolium_, ...
>
> The trouble with sassafras is that it contains _safrole_, a
> carcinogen (see the NTP 85-002, 1985). Safrole ... is
> about 75% of oil of sassafras. It has been used as a topical
> antiseptic and a pediculicide (lice treatment). Its oral toxicity
> in rats is 50% lethality at a dose of 1.95 g per kg.
>
> So, if you must indulge, do so in moderation!
>
>
>-- End of excerpt
<Cynic mode on>
Let's see ... I weigh approximately 240 lbs. That's ~108.86 kg. So at
1.95 g per kg I can ingest 212.277 grams or 7.48 oz. At 75% safrole I would
need 9.97 oz of sassafras. Rootbeer extracts that I have seen come in
2 oz bottles which makes 5 gallons of rootbeer. Assuming (1) that it is
consumed in a short period of time and (2) the extract is pure sassafras
I would need to drink 24.925 gallons of rootbeer to reach the oral toxicity.
While there is a 50-50 chance that I will develop cancer there is a 90% plus
chance that I will create a very large brown flume orally. Which means I am
now below the 50% lethality rate.
<Cynic mode off>
All I am trying to say is when something has been proven dangerous to
labrats, quite often the dosage is something normal humans may never
approach in their life times. Russell, I am not picking on you, it's just
that you provided enough numbers for me to write this little diatribe.
I am sure I will get a few responses correcting my math/spelling/use-of-HBD.
(-: at least 'til article 100 :-)
- --
The leading cause of cancer in laboratory rats is research.
Sheridan J. Adams
sja@grog.cray.com
(612) 683-3030
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 9:41:30 MDT
From: Richard Stern <rstern@col.hp.com>
Subject: Cascade vs Centenial hops
I'm interested in opinions regarding Cascade vs Centennial (sp?) hops.
If a recipe calls for dry hopping with 2oz of Cascade, will I get good
results using 1oz of Centennial ??
What exactly is the history/background of Centennial?? I first heard
about them at the GABF from the brewer at Big Time (Seattle brew-pub). His
beers were excellent, and winning golds, so I figured they're worth a try.
Comments appreciated ...
Thanks,
Richard Stern
rstern@col.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 09:21 EDT
From: jcb@homxb.att.com
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #920 (July 09, 1992)
A word of warning to anyone thinking of ordering DAve Miller's
new book sight unseen. "Brewing the World's Great Beers" should really
be called, "An Introductory Guide to Brewing the World's Great
Beer STYLES". The book does NOT replace Line's book. It does not
give recipes attempting to replicate any particular brand of beer,
but gives extract, partial, and full-grain recipes for most of the
styles of beer. Anyone reading Zymurgy or the Cats Meow would have
seen similar recipes before. The one interesting thing is seeing
the supposedly same recipe presented in each of the techniques of
brewing. Miller gives the simple steps of each technique without
much explanation and even advocates sucking on the siphon hose!
John Brown (91 .. 92 .. 93 ......)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 09:44:54 MDT
From: scojam@scojam.Auto-trol.COM (Scott James.)
Subject: Questions...
I've been brewing for about a year now and have a few questions:
1) What is a "Stuck Mash" ? Is this while sparging the lauter tun gets
clogged and sweet wort can no longer flow?
2) Thanks to Tom Kalterbach for the Wyeast info! Does anyone have Hops info?
3) Please explain the value of using IBU's while bittering. I guess there
is a standard range for different varieties of brew?
4) I've done some all grain brewing and my last bath used a yeast I cultured
from a "Fat Tire Ale" from a microbrewery in Ft. Collins, Colorado.
Do you think as a next step from extract brewing it's wise to pursue
all-grain mashing or using Wyeast (I've never used Wyeast, but it sounds
like it can make a BIG difference) ?
5) Did I win the Malt-Mill ?
Thanks in advance for any and all answers/opinions!
- --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=--
Scott James (N0LHX) scojam@Auto-Trol.COM
Auto-Trol Technology Tools Group
- --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 11:21:17 CDT
From: tony@spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: Re: modified malts and British beers (fwd)
Hi again! Offline, Cush Hamlen indicated that he was interested in
differences in flavor and character.
To be clear, many U.S. malts are highly modified.
As for character or flavor, try chewing on some grain! Maris Otter malt,
used at Young's, is often described as having a "nutty" character. British
crystal malts also have a very distinctive flavor. Maris Otter crystal malt,
available from Liberty Malting in Seattle, has an 80 Lovibond color and
a very sweet, caramel-like aroma. Likewise, something I bought from the
local shop labeled British Cara-Pils had a nice caramel or toffee-ish
aroma. All barleys are not alike. Objectively, they differ in measures
that homebrewers are usually not concerned with, such as protein and
nitrogen content, diastatic power, and the like.
Coors uses a Moravian strain that is one of the most prized, but has a
different character than pale ale malts.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 11:08:14 -0500
From: melkor!rick@cs.umn.edu (Rick Larson)
Subject: Target hops, Sherlock's Home brewpub
John Hartmen asks about Target hops in his (great!) post
about Young's Brewery (HBD 912) and Cush Hamlen mentions
Sherlock's Home brewpub uses highly modified malts (HBD 920).
I have talked to the Brewmaster there about their bitter,
Bishop's Bitter. This bitter uses Target hops and is a good
example of this hop profile. I recommend anyone living (or
visiting) the Minneapolis area to try this bitter. (Easy for
me to say since I only work 2 miles from Sherlock's).
rick
- ---
Rick Larson rick@adc.com, melkor!rick@cs.umn.edu
ADC Telecommunications, Inc. ...!uunet!melkor!rick
Minneapolis, MN 55435 (612) 936-8288
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 10:27:51 MDT
From: Richard Stern <rstern@col.hp.com>
Subject: boiling in 2 pots
I'm planning to do a 5-6 gallon mash, and I don't have my keg boiler
ready, so I'm going to borrow a friends 20qt pot and boil in 2 pots.
Anything to be concerned about except for slightly less hop extraction?
Any problem with immersion chilling one pot, dumping it in the primary,
and then chilling the second pot and dumping it in 20 minutes later?
Thanks for any advice,
Richard "did I win the MALTMILL" Stern
rstern@col.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 09:26 PDT
From: ALTENBACH@CHERRY.llnl.gov
Subject: SMOKED BEER
FRANK IN HBD 919 ASKED ABOUT MAKING EXTRACT BASED SMOKED BEER.
IF LIQUID SMOKE IS NOT USED, THEN YOU NEED TO SMOKE AS MUCH SPECIALTY GRAIN
AS POSSIBLE TO GET A NICE SMOKEY BREW. OTHERWISE PROCESS THE BEER NORMALLY,
MOST RECIPE SUGGESTIONS MENTIONED WILL WORK OUT OK. I'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL
MAKING ALL GRAIN SMOKED BEER, BY SMOKING A SUBSTANTIAL FRACTION OF THE MALT
,BOTH PALE AND MUNICH, ON MY TRUSTY WEBER. THE TRICK IS TO USE A LOW WOOD
FIRE WITH HICKORY OR OTHER FLAVORFUL WOOD. MAXIMIZE THE SMOKE AND MINIMIZE
THE HEAT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO ROAST THE GRAIN. I IMAGINE A SMOKER
WOULD BE EVEN BETTER FOR THIS, BUT I HAVEN'T TRIED ONE YET. FROM THE
COMPETITONS I'VE ENTERED, THE JUDGES PREFER THAT THICK TONGUE-COATING
SMOKE THE GERMAN IMPORTS HAVE. YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH SMOKE FOR THEM.
BUT YOUR TASTES MAY VARY. MY BBQ SMOKE PROCEDURE PRODUCES A MORE MILDLY
SMOKED FLAVOR IN BEER THAT GOES GREAT WITH BBQ STEAK OR SAUSAGE. I THINK
A FULLY BODIED MALTY BEER BETTER SUPPORTS THE SMOKE FLAVOR, SO MY FAVORITE
IS RAUCHBOCK.
TOM ALTENBACH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 09:26:09 -0700
From: tdlong@ucdavis.edu (Tony Long)
Subject: Al's jockeybox
In reply to Russell Owen who referred to Al's jockeybox:
"I suspect you will have trouble ... since the solubility of
CO2 varies greatly with temperature," saying that he had
trouble keeping the cold beer carbonated.
I don't believe Russell understands the problem. The idea of the
jockeybox is that the keg is kept at room temperature and beer is cooled
while being dispensed. I have found the cooling works great, but the
dispensed beer looses much of its carbonation! I have found that if there
is enough pressure in the keg for dispensed beer to remain at "acceptable"
levels of carbonation, then the beer is jetted out. As I live in the
central valley with day temperatures well over 90 this problem has become
especially acute of late. If your keg is at cellar temperature and you
only want to boost the cooling this sort of set-up seems to work OK.
This brings up a second point. As I live in an apartment and have no
room for a second fridge ... does anyone have any alternate ideas that
would allow the cooling of kegged beer. Once one has grown accustomed to
kegging it is difficult to return to washing bottles. Perhaps J.S. in his
great supportiveness of clever inventions will offer a suitable prize to
the individual who can design a suitable beastie : )
Tony Long
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 10:32 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS@CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Bottling my cyser
Howdy,
I've been meaning to ask a question for a while now, and JS's
raffle finally motivated me to ask. ;-)
My cyser (fermented apple juice and honey) has been sitting in a secondary
for almost 7 months (!), and I think it should be ready for bottling now.
A couple weeks ago, I took a teensie weensie taste (I hate to risk
contamination and all, but I was dying for a taste). Going down, this
stuff feels like Southern Comfort, it's got so much alcohol!. Now I realize
that it's not more than 12 - 14 % alcohol, but WHAT A KICK! I've read that
frequently, spices can be added to a mead at bottling time, so my question
to all the experienced mead makers is this: Is there something I can add
that might reduce the burning quality? (Or will it go away by itself?) Is
this a common characteristic of a mead? I'm almost ashamed to admit it,
but the first mead I've ever tasted was this one, so I don't know what to
compare it with.
Thanks,
Chuck
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 12:30:12 EDT
From: Joe Rolfe <jdr@wang.com>
Subject: CLEAR BEER
i could not resist a chance to post - for a free grain mill i'll do almost
anything - well maybe not .....
but on a recent thread about clear beer from extracts,
i too have had some problems with clear extract beers.
these batches are not the normal homebrew size - you could consider me to
be the WORLDS LARGEST HOMEBREWER or one of them - jack s. don't take offense
- i don't mean or intend to flame you with this.
my brewlength has typically been 1bbl plus. i ferment in a stainless unitank
and also put wort into carbouys for tests (fruit dry hop ...)
i was looking for comment on the following:
several items i have done and will attempt to do in the future are:
1) isinglass - appears to help some, not as much as i would like
- i have tried the liquid isinglass and will try the A.Gusmer dry
isinglass called cryofine in the next batch.
- added to 5 gallons and bottling leave to much "junk" on the bottom
of the bottles and does not appear to compact very well. anyone
else used it in bottles?
- have not tapped the keg version of the same batch yet.
- have heard that isinglass in the presents of too much yeast
causes isinglass to become less effective
2) irish moss
- i let the amount to be used sit in warm (100F) water for hours
until it is used, when dumped into kettle it has cooled to ambient
- have been adding at whirlpool (after heat off) - approx 1 hr before
the wort is in the fermenter (maybe to long of contact?)
- have seemed to notice more haze (permenant and chill when too much
moss is used. (added 1.5 oz to 1bb - really hazy, .75oz 1bb appeared
less hazy (but also used MF DME instead of MF Cedarex (liquid).
- will try adding at earlier time (10 min before heat off)
- never had much in the way of chill haze during my 5 gallon brewlength
days.
3) water composition
- my water is soften with a salt based softner, my raw well
water had large amounts (1.5ppm) iron, now the water may
be too soft(??) i have only used the soft water for brewing of the
larger batches. the smaller 5 gallon batches i did use well water
and never had chill hazes
- will get a detailed water test soon
- will try to add more calcium in the boil to adjust PH, and will
try to remember to check the PH (i hate PH papers, got to get one of
those temp and ph sensors.
4) hops
- had really lousy hops the first two batches (whole cones of Cascade
and Williamette, got better hops (less oxidized and much fresher)
- have added hops very soon after boil, will try waiting until the hot
break is secured.
5) boil
- i have always boiled for a full 90 min
- in larger batchs (1bb +) i boil the full volume
- in smaller batchs (5 gal and less) i could not boil the full volume
- the boil has been less than vigorous (judging from what my 5 gallon
batches have been). have adjusted the propane burner level. will
be adding a 4500 watt element for next batch.
6) chilling
- i use dual 25 foot counter flow chiller, the water temp going in
is usually around 60-70F, i adjust the flow of water with a ball
valve to attain the temp needed for the fermenter, (another use
for temp sensor). i usually keep 110 gal of water on hand to chill
the wort to 60 - 70 F. the wort is pumped at 4-5 gal per min.
If any of you have comments (constructive or otherwise) i would like to
hear from you (email or post).
Do the items appear to be sound brewing principal or excessive worry....
(i can relax later, but worry whilst i am still relativly young:-}
What items are the most important (if any)??
Thanx in advance
Joe Rolfe - 508-967-5760
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 11:41:38 -0500
From: popowich@ssc.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: ROOTBEER
Thanks to Russell for his explanation of the dangers of root beer. I
will certainly be careful IF I EVER FIND A RECIPE!!!. I'm so
surprised by the silence over getting a recipe. Besides Russell's
message I have only received responses along this line:
"...I too have been in search of a root beer recipe that doesn't use
extracts. If you're successful in finding one pass it on to me..."
Has the scare of using sassafras rid the world of all recipes? How
sad. I guess it's time to hang my head low and buy a kit...(sigh)...
Daniel
popowich@ssc.wisc.edu
popowich@wiscssc.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 11:34:48 -0500
From: melkor!rick@cs.umn.edu (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: malts...
Franklin R. Jones in HBD 919 asks about roasting malts:
I scanned Cat's Meow II for some roasted malts and found a few.
>From Perle Pale:
...1/2 pound Klages malt was toasted in a 350 degree oven for 10 minutes.
>From Crying Goat Ale:
Toast 1-1/2 pounds of 2 row Klages malt in oven at 350 degrees for 40 minutes.
>From BrewHaus I.P.A:
Spread (1/2 pound) 2-row Klages on cookie sheet and toast at 350 degrees
until reddish brown in color.
>From Helles Belles Maibock:
...toasted (1 pound) malt was done 5 minutes in a 350 degree oven.
>Ole Bottle Rocket (Steam):
Toast (1/2 pound) grains on cookie sheet in 350 degree oven for about 10 minutes.
Glad to hear you got a brewery room setup. I'm still working on mine.
Hope this helps,
rick
PS. Frank, I tried to mail this directly to you but it bounced (yea, I wont
win the MALTMILL with direct posts).
- ---
Rick Larson Don't use reply but: rick@adc.com, melkor!rick@cs.umn.edu
ADC Telecommunications, Inc. ...!uunet!melkor!rick
Minneapolis MN 55435 (612) 936-8288
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 12:36 EDT
From: jcb@homxb.att.com
Regarding Rauchbier:
I made up a batch of rauchbier to be ready for the July 4th barbeque
and it came out pretty well. The smoky-sweet flavor is more subtle
than something like Kaiserdom Rauchbier, but is still present and the
beer seems more balanced between malt, smoke and hops. The recipe
is based on the all-grain one given in Charlie II:
6# light malt syrup
1# smoked pale malt (hickory - 30 minutes)
1# smoked crystal "
0.5# wheat malt
0.5# pale malt
The 2 lbs of grain were soaked and then smoked over hickory for
about 30 minutes. I used the Wyeast Pilsen Lager yeast (2007?)
and fermented at 60 degrees. When I bottled I tasted the SG sample
and whew boy was it smoky. The smoke has subsided a bit in the bottle
enough so that next time I might consider smoking the grains longer or
adding another pound. Give it a go and good luck
John Brown (91..92..93..94....)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 10:44 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS@CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Low alcohol beer (oh no, not again!)
Durn it, I forgot to ask one other question:
Some time ago, we had a rather heated discussion about making low alcohol
beers. Other than antagonizing everyone, we concluded that JS's method of
heating a fermented beer might/might not work. My question is not related
to the heat treatment- we've been through that a little too much. I just
want to know, out of curiosity (I am a chemical engineer, after all) what
is the process that Anheuser, Miller, Coors, etc. use to make Cutter et al.?
Do they use a "genetically altered" yeast, which is able to eat maltose and
produce CO2 without producing EtOH? (I really have a hard time believing
this one.) Do they use vacuum distillation? The only other possiblity
that I see is separating EtOH from the beer by using osmotic pressure
through a semipermeable membrane. To me, the first seems impossible, and
the last two seem rather expensive.
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity,
Chuck "When I stop learning, bury me"
- a wise brewer in the HBD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 12:47:05 edt
From: michael@frank.polymer.uakron.edu (Micheal Yandrasits)
Subject: I'll play
Here goes my attempt at the Malt Mill.
While I'm here, I have 4 hop plants of unknown origins. I just planted them
this year and they seem to be doing very well. I made a brew from the
parent plant hops last year and my guess is they are Cascades. The problem
is there is something eating the leaves. I don't think its aphids since
I can't see anything except holes. Are there any other common hop pests that
fit the bill?
Also a great pepper beer is any beer with a drop of Tabasco sauce. It kills the head but for most typical commercial beers this is not a problem. I recall
many American beers of my youth spiced up this way.
-Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 12:41 EDT
From: jcb@homxb.att.com
Subject: Rauchbier
Whoops, on the recipe I sent in for rauchbier I forgot to mention
the hops. (who uses hops in rauchbier anyway). The hops used
were Hallertauer 4% alpa, with 1 oz added for 60 minutes and 0.5
oz added for the last 10 minutes. Sorry, and I am not trying
to get the maltmill
John Carl Brown ( 101 .. 102 .. 103 .....
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 92 09:10:00 PST
From: "C_TOWNSEND" <CTOWNSEND@atlas.nafb.trw.com>
Subject: Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Solicitaion
I would like to imitate Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Any recipes
or suggestions would be appreciated. Extract, infusion, or mash recipes
are desired. Thanks in advance!
CBT
PS: Did I win ??!?
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 92 09:16:00 PST
From: "B_HADLEY" <BHADLEY@atlas.nafb.trw.com>
Subject: grain conversion
I would like to convert a extract recipe to an all grain one. What is the
conversion for lbs extract to lbs grain? Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 10:30:17 PDT
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Blueberry Beer, Keg Scratches
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"
Hey Gang! A couple of quick questions for you all.
1) Does anyone have a good recipe for Blueberry beer? There is a local
contest coming up that features fruit beers, and I would like to brew one
up. An all grain recipe is preferable, but a good extract recipe would be ok.
2) I keg my beer using soda kegs, and I also ferment in soda kegs. I recently
finished a ferment and discovered that I could not clean all of the crud
(left behind) off of the keg using a 24hour soak in TSP followed by a sponge
bath. The sponge that I was using had one of those green abrasive pads on
it so I used it. It cleaned the stuff off without any troubles at all.
However, after examining the inside of the keg, I could see patchy sections
of small scratches where I used the pad. The scratches are definitely small
(I can't feel them with my finger, or finger nail). But, I was concerned that
these may be a place that little nasties may take up residence and trash the
next brew I ferment in this keg. Does anyone have any idea if I really need
to be concerned about this? If it is a problem, can I fix the keg (steel
wool - very fine grade maybe)? Hopefully the scratches simply indicate an
area where the surface 'polish' is different....
JC
johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 13:40:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: HAPANOWICZ@bigvax.alfred.edu (The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.)
Subject: A call for a mead addict!
I have two cases of still mead that was made a year ago. The mead tastes
a lot like port wine. This mead is really not to my taste but I'm sure
that someone would enjoy it. Is anyone interested in tradeing a bottle of
their mead for two bottles of mine? I would like to try a carbonated
mead or a mead with a moderate amount of alcohol. My mead has quite a
bit of alcohol, enough for a month long space shuttle trip.
Interested? Send replies to:
Rick Hapanowicz
HAPANOWI@CERAMICS.BITNET
(607 587-8733 Home
(607) 871-2446 Lab
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 13:55 EDT
From: smc@hotsc.att.com
Subject: Success Re-using yeast cake - WOW!
I just started a batch last night using the "pour the wort on the cake
of yeast from the previous batch" method.
First batch:
2 cans (3.3 lbs each) Munton & Fison Light Extract
2 oz Fuggles pellets (boil)
2 oz Cascades whole hops (dry)
Wyeast London Ale (#1028, I think...)
5.5 gal. batch
Second batch:
1 can (3.3 lbs) M+F Amber Hopped Extract
1 can (3.3 lbs) M+F Dark Hopped Extract
1 oz Northern Brewer whole hops (dry)
Poured on cake from batch above
5.5 gal. batch
The second batch took off like nothing I've ever seen before.
Overnight, the lock was going like crazy - about 5 glugs/second. At
this rate, it should ferment in about 2 days!
I went from a lighter beer to darker in this case; I would guess this
would be better than trying to go the other way (to avoid any flavors
from the stronger beer being left for the lighter beer).
Anyway, thanks to the HBD for this great suggestion. It's easy to
bottle while boiling one batch, and you get to re-use the Wyeast for a
small savings.
Steve Casagrande
smc@hotsc.att.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 9:14:24 CDT
From: johnf@persoft.com (John Freeborg)
Subject: Wheat Beers
With summer in full swing I plan to do a wheat beer. I picked up the special
Wyeast wheat beer yeast, but have yet to get the wheat malt. From reading
in Miller's book it says for a wheat beer that you must use 6-row malt in the
mash with the wheat. The reasoning is that the wheat has no enzymes to break
down the sugars, and 6-row has a ton of enzymes (compared to 2-row anyways).
What is the hbd consensus? Any great wheat recipes people swear by?
What do other people think of the Wyeast wheat beer yeast?
- John
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Freeborg Software Engineer Persoft
johnf@persoft.com 465 Science Dr.
608-273-6000 Madison, WI 53711
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 13:27:53 CDT
From: tee@teak.cray.com (Tony Ernst)
Subject: Great Taste of the Midwest
Can anyone tell me anything about this year's Great Taste of the Midwest?
It's usually held in Madison, WI sometime in August.
I'm going to be in Madison around the weekend of Aug. 22-23, and I've heard
that the Great Taste of the Midwest will be on Saturday, Aug. 22nd this year.
Does anyone know any details about this year's event? (perhaps someone from
The Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild is reading this? :^)
Thanks!
- --
-Tony Ernst
Minnesota Brewers Association
tee@cray.com
"Beer. If you can't taste it, why bother!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 14:31:32 -0400
From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: Belgian ale
In HBD917 Phillip Seitz gave us an excellent review of
_Belgian_Ale_. He notes:
> ... More than hops or
> even malt, the secret to Belgian beer flavors appears to be
> the yeast,
Some weeks ago, I posted on my experience with Wyeast Belgian.
I recall making the same point: I used essentially the same
ingredients as for English Pale Ale (and so, in retrospect,
too hoppy for the Belgian style) and got a totally different
beer, thanks to having the right yeast. That point seemed
to get lost in the polemic which ensued concerning the purity
of Wyeast and my sanitary procedures. Perhaps I shouldn't
have made an oblique reference to _A_Chorus_Line_ ("Dance: 10,
Looks: 2") without explaining myself.
One thing that came up in that discussion was the suggestion
that I brewed at too high a temp (70F). Phillip sez:
> Belgian-style brewing will come as quite a shock to many:
> these include obligatory use of large quantities of sugar,
> high-temperature fermentations (up to and over 85 degrees
-------------------------
> fahrenheit), microscopic hopping rates (take *that*,
> hopheads!), and deliberate production of sour and high-ester
> beers.
Prospective users of Wyeast Belgian should still be aware of
one point: the yeast is slow. I'm not talking about a lag in
getting started, rather that the yeast seems to take forever
in finishing. On the other hand, I received e-mail from
Larry Barello who tells me that his techniques of yeast
washing (described in the HBD more than a month ago) might
cure this problem. I intend to try it when the the weather
cools off (come to think of it, maybe I don't need to wait!).
For the record: the beer is now over two months old, more than
a month in the bottle. It has mellowed substantially and the
bananas have almost disappeared. The beer is still very estery,
but that appears to be true to style.
Do I win the MALTMILL? :-)
Cheers,
Rob
(bradley@adx.adelphi.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 13:28:55 CST
From: C05705DA@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu
Subject: dry ratio
How many pounds of dry malt is equal to one pound of extract?
That's all, good day.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 12:47:11 MDT
From: Richard Stern <rstern@col.hp.com>
Subject: Wyeast types
When supply shopping recently, I bought a couple of pouches each of
Wyeast American Ale and Wyeast Irish Ale. I know the American is the
SNPA yeast, so I'm planning to use it for some pale ales. The guy at
the store recommended the Irish for porters and stouts. Was he correct?
What's the difference between the American and the Irish, and what would
the net recommend for a porter? I plan to use a recipe from Foster's book
on porter. In general, I'd just like to hear some comments about the
Irish Ale yeast (and maybe win a MALTMILL by posting this :-)).
Thanks,
Richard Stern (who's shamelessly posting lot's of questions in hopes of
being #100.)
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 92 11:53:00 PST
From: "B_HADLEY" <BHADLEY@atlas.nafb.trw.com>
Subject: honey lager
From: ATLAS::BHADLEY "Brian D. Hadley, Ph.D. - TRW, NAFB - 714-382-7061" 9-JUL-1992 09:06:27.93
To: WINS%"chpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
CC: CTOWNSEND,BHADLEY
Subj: Honey Lager
Contrary to most of the mail I got on R Rs Honey Lager, (about bad flavor),
I find mine to be very good. It has a sort of dry beer-champagne taste. I
would recommend adding an extra pound of dry malt thought.
P.S. Is the maltmill givaway still in effect?
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 92 11:55:00 PST
From: "B_HADLEY" <BHADLEY@atlas.nafb.trw.com>
Subject: conversion
From: ATLAS::BHADLEY "Brian D. Hadley, Ph.D. - TRW, NAFB - 714-382-7061" 9-JUL-1992 09:12:20.65
To: WINS%"chpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
CC: CTOWNSEND,BHADLEY
Subj: Grain conversion
I would like to convert a extract recipe to an all grain recipe. Does
someone know the conversion between lbs extract to lbs grain? thanks
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 92 11:55:00 PST
From: "B_HADLEY" <BHADLEY@atlas.nafb.trw.com>
Subject: yeast
From: ATLAS::BHADLEY "Brian D. Hadley, Ph.D. - TRW, NAFB - 714-382-7061" 9-JUL-1992 09:10:23.25
To: WINS%"chpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
CC: CTOWNSEND,BHADLEY
Subj: yeasts
I have heard that you can use the remaining yeast in the bottom of a few
homebrews to pitch into a new batch? Is this true? Do you need to make a
starter or something? thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 13:39:53 EDT
From: lee_menegoni@ptltd.com
Subject: Inexpensive Temp Control
The Hunter Air Stat is a good choice for inexpensive temp control. It retails
for about $30, I bought mine on sale last year for $19.99. It plugs into a
wall outlet, the refridgerator is plugged into a receptacle in the Air Stat.
This receptacle's line current is controlled via a thermo couple on a 36"
wire. This receptacle is rated for the current load of a home AC unit so a
refridgerator is not an overload on it. It maintains the temp programmed into
the digital display +1 / -2, given the thermal mass of 5 gallons of liquid the
beer temp shouldn't vary much. The only negative feature I can think of is the
units minimum temperature setting is 40F which is still cold enough for
lagering.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 13:34:12 CDT
From: johnf@persoft.com (John Freeborg)
Subject: Sparge Water pH
How many all-grain people adjust their sparge water pH? I've been reading
about putting lactic acid in the sparge water to achieve the proper pH which
helps improve extraction numbers.
Should I worry about this? Do other people? Have you noticed a dramatic
difference once you started doing this?
- John
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Freeborg Software Engineer Persoft
johnf@persoft.com 465 Science Dr.
608-273-6000 Madison, WI 53711
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 14:07:20 CDT
From: Jacob Galley <gal2@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: I win!
You sillies, the key to winning a contest like this is TIMING.
Actually, I have a quick question anyway: I am about to acquire two
half-barrel kegs that a friend found when she was moving into her new
apartment. Neither is empty, and we don't know the nature or age of
their contents. (Chances are, it's really old Old Style, but who
knows?) Does anyone have any advice on how to empty a keg of spoiled
beer? Or at least any amuzing stories?
Cheers,
Jake.
Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2@midway.uchicago.edu
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #922, 07/14/92
*************************************
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