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HOMEBREW Digest #0855
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 92/04/02 06:43:00
HOMEBREW Digest #855 Thu 02 April 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
protein rest a necessity? (Chris Shenton)
Re: Off to Deuchtland. (Chris Shenton)
Re: EASYMASH (Brian Batke)
Mash-Tun from hell -- Alpha test (Mike Sharp)
ASCII or uncompressed Postscript (lotus!"CRD!EJ_McGowan)
ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
Leinenkugel tours (Randy Johnson)
Leinenkugel's tours (rjj)
Source of bugs for lambic brewing (Dennis J. Templeton)
ASCII or uncompressed Postscript (lotus!"CRD!EJ_McGowan)
ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
Training Hops - Up Or Out ? (Donald P Perley)
ASCII or uncompressed Postscript (lotus!"CRD!EJ_McGowan)
ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
Re: Rehydrating Yeast (Douglas Allen Luce)
Mash Water (Michael J. Gerard)
re: U.S. brown sugar and molasses (Paul LaBrie)
clearing problems (mcnally)
"Real" homebrewers (matth)
RE: bottling question (jeff gale 283-4010)
Liquid Yeast Question (ALTIMARI)
Yeast Culturing (caitrin lynch)
Welcome Aboard (Bob Jones)
Rehydrating Dried Yeast (John DeCarlo)
Anderson Valley brew list - ingredients (Jerome Rainey - consult)
Leine tours (volkerding patrick)
hops in nj (sort of) (dave ballard)
ale vs. lager (korz)
Rehydrating Yeast (Jack Schmidling)
Rotten Egg Smell (Walter H. Gude)
Re: Rehydrating Yeast (Walter H. Gude)
Head color in stouts and porters (Frank Tutzauer)
cat's meow question & recipe (Peter Glen Berger)
Recipe: Mo' Better Bitter (Peter Glen Berger)
RECIPE: Goldenflower Ale (Peter Glen Berger)
Re: Mail order prices (b11!mspe5!guy)
Send submissions to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 08:27:02 EST
From: css@srm1.stx.com (Chris Shenton)
Subject: protein rest a necessity?
In HBD 853 Al Korzonis wrote:
> Using less-modified malt (such as Lager malt) would
> require a protein rest.
To which Mike McNally <mcnally@wsl.dec.com> responded:
> Well, I used to believe this, but now I wonder. According to many
> sources, most commercial breweries use a single-step infusion. I've
> done this myself, and have had no problems at all. No haze, no excessive
> trub, nothing.
Being a lazy slug, I usually opt for something which maximizes the
quality/effort ratio. I've almost always done single-step mashes
(cooler with false bottom) and none have had hazes or excessive trub.
I've used pale (English and US), Klages, Wheat, etc... My brew club
seems to think highly of my beers, as do my thirsty neighbors :-)
My brew-partner, steve@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov, claims to get better
extract efficiency and a quicker clearing of the sparge by doing a
stove-top step-mash, then dumping into the slotted cooler to settle
and sparge. I haven't run the numbers on my own procedure to compare.
I too have been confused and intimidated by the books and the repeated
insistence on step-mashes, but the Simple Mash (TM :-) works well for
me. Just another data point....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 08:34:43 EST
From: css@srm1.stx.com (Chris Shenton)
Subject: Re: Off to Deuchtland.
On Mar 31, The Rider <mfetzer@ucsd.edu > writes:
> Deutschland. But worse than that, you'll be sorely disappointed when you
> hit that obvious place, the Hofbr*aeu*haus. You'll find no Germans inside.
> Mostly American and Japanese tourists, by the busload, and Italian,
> Turkish, what have you waiters. Can you say *touristtrap*?
I stopped in to try the recently opened Mai Bock when I was last
there. An *excellent* beer (I'm a big fan of bocks). My drinking
companion purposefully sat us next to a couple of Bavarians, despite
the empty tables, and we had a fine time. I suppose there were the
usual groups of tourists, but we didn't pay any attention -- talking to
the locals was more fun.
So, relax, don't worry, have a Hofbrau. You're not going to Muenchen
to see the tourists, you're going there to *drink*!
Prost!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 92 09:08:49 EST
From: Brian Batke <bab@odin.icd.ab.com>
Subject: Re: EASYMASH
Jack Schmidling writes:
> As I have the same aversion to plastic as I do to aluminum
> and to keep within the budget of most hobbiests, I decided
> to base the system around the old enameled 8 gal kettle that
> grandma used for canning.
>
> The same kettle is used for mashing, sparging and again
> after dumping the spent grains, for the boil. It is never
> lifted full so the problem of handles falling off is not an
> issue.
I wonder about the durability of these kettles. I bought one
a few months ago. After being used for 4 extract batches,
the finish on the bottom is wearing off and it's starting
to rust. It was washed and dried immediately after use.
I hate to think of what it will look like after a dozen
batches.
- -----------
Brian Batke
bab@icd.ab.com
Allen-Bradley Co., Highland Hts, Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 9:12:27 EST
From: Mike Sharp <msharp@cs.ulowell.edu>
Subject: Mash-Tun from hell -- Alpha test
Hi,
Yesterday witnessed both the begining & end of two eras. First, after
175K miles I took my '76 Capri to the junkyard. This prompted the opening
of the MTFH era (after all, I was kind'a bummed out about the Capri &
I couldn't go anywhere -- why not brew the blues away?). Yes, yesterday
was the alpha test of the mash-tun from hell.
For those of you who haven't been paying attention, the MTFH is a 27.5gal
stainless vessel (half a stainless drum) fitted with a 30% open false bottom.
The false bottom was cut from an 18gauge sheet of 1/8" offset perf stainless.
It rests on a big X made of 1/2x1/2x1/8 stainless angle which attaches to
the sides of the vessel via four little angle iron 'feet'.
The MTFH is heated by a 4500watt tube heater constructed out
of various bits of pipe and an electric water heater element. Mash
recirculation is accomplished by a 15gal/min procom pump (like the
carbonator pumps Foxx sells). There is a rather impressive bank of
valves that allow wort to move in all sorts of different directions.
At the moment there isn't much to do with all of those valves, but once
the sparge water tank and the boiler are constructed (30gal and 50gal
respecitivly), they will allow the system to be set in place permanently
w/o the need for moving hoses, etc.
All in all, the MTFH is sort of a RIMS on steroids with a few extras
for convenience.
Yesterday's alpha test recipe was fairly generic (a shock to many who
know me!):
30lb 6-row pale
5lb 40L crystal
20oz Hallertau for 60min boil
2.5oz Hallertau for 10min
MeV English Ale & any pediococcus & brettanomyces from
the cask. (I usually make pseudo-lambics in it)
I started with all of the grain and ~10-12gal of water at 110F.
In one hour and 10min it was at ~155F (~.6F/min) The temp was
held for one hour (a trivial task with that much thermal mass).
Sparging took about 1/2 hour and I collected about 18 gal
of wort. I probably could have done better but near the end
I'd run out of sparge water & was just using hot water.
The sparge went *wonderfully* BTW. I probably could have done it a
lot quicker if I hadn't kept running out of sparge water.
The gravity wound up being ~1.050. Thats about 70% efficiency
according to my 'Amazing Wheel of Beer'. Not great, but given the
sparge, not bad either. I expect this will improve dramatically
on the next run. (read: I'll have my sh*t together next time)
FWIW, I could have fit another 20-30lbs of grain in the MTFH.
I don't ever plan on running anything like that but I was having
all sorts of really evil pale barley wine ideas... Lets see,
first runnings from 50lbs of pale...
After the sparge I filled _everything_ that didn't leak with wort.
I then started a 1hour boil in a bruheat, 5gal pot & 3 gal pot. I
wound up running the bruheat and the 5 gal pot once more each to
finish off the boil. Each of the boils got a portion of the hops.
Upon completion of the boil I put everything in my oak primary.
(It was the only thing big enough, besides I didn't want to have
a completely normal recipe)
While cleaning the MTFH I noted _some_ scorching on the heating
element, but not so much as to discourage future runs. (I don't
make really pale ales/lagers anyway) Also, you wouldn't believe
the amount of trub that a batch this size produces!
So what posessed me to build such a large brewery? No, I'm not trying
to die of scirossis of the liver. In fact, I don't really drink that
much (relative) at all. A few pints a week. However, when playing
with lambics I need to fill a 15gal cask for each batch. That means
I need to *yield* more than 15 gallons. Hence the MTFH was born.
--Mike
p.s. if you're from the BATF the above is a fictional work for the
entertainment of homebrewers, (c) 1992 by Mike Sharp. ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 08:47:41 EST
From: hp-pcd.cv.hp.com!lotus!"CRD!EJ_McGowan@LOTUS"
Subject: ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
~~inner_header~~
To: UNIXML::"homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
Frank Tutzauer mentioned
>First, it is possible to get plain ASCII files and uncompressed postscript
>files. Many kind souls offered to send them to me, but they are also
>available via ftp from NETLIB@MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU and from
>GARBO.UWASA.FI (128.214.87.1).
Could I impose on one of the people who offered to send the ASCII file? I
don't live in a UNIX environment and would love to get the CAT II in plain
ASCII format. Plain EMAIL would be fine. Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 23:10:02 CST
From: rjj@training.cray.com (Randy Johnson)
Subject: Leinenkugel tours
From: rjj@tngstar.cray.com
Subject: Leinenkugel's tours
Greg Roody wants to know about tours at Leinenkugel's in Chippewa Falls,
WI.
First, Greg, notice the spellings of both Leinenkugel's and Chippewa.
I know something about them since I work for Cray Research in Eagan, MN
and often go to Chippewa Falls where the supercomputers are manufactured.
I'm guessing you're with DEC and will be at Cray for the month.
Leinenkugel's is a German name and Chippewa is a bastardized spelling and
pronunciation of the Ojibwa Indian tribe.
I took my homebrew group from Red Wing, MN on a tour of the brewery a few
years ago and I recall that tours don't start until May. They do, however,
have a little hospitality shop there with shirts, etc., but no samples,
unfortunately. Call directory assistance for their number (AC 715).
If you get to tour, it is sort of interesting, because, even though they
are now part of Miller, they are still kept SMALL. The brewmaster was
funny and very charming. I remember crawling over hoses and up steep
steps. We saw the whole thing and when done sampled fresh, unpasteurized
beers he had put in his office freezer before we toured. Everyone that
works in the brewery seems to be happy, short, stout and has a big belly.
Chippewa Falls is NOT cosmopolitan, so don't expect big city thrills.
Residents there enjoy the outdoors (hunting, fishing, etc.). There is an
interesting park across from the brewery you might like to see. And of
course, every bar in town serves Leinie's (reg., light, and Limited).
Oh, and watch out for the one-way streets - they're killers. For more
excitement, go to Eau Claire or watch TV.
Randy Johnson (rjj@tngstar.cray.com)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 09:42:57 -0500
From: djt2@po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Source of bugs for lambic brewing
In "Lambic", Guinard lists three organisms that are important for the
authentic lambic brewing process:
Tegenaria parietina
Lepthyphantes leprosus, and
Pholcus phalangoides
I have been searching my homebrew suppliers, but none have been able to
provide me with these bugs. One guy suggested I obtain them from
environmental sources, but I'm not sure I'm equipped to culture them
myself. I would appreciate helpful suggestions about sources for these
organisms, and their maintenance.
thanks,
dennis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 09:15:29 EST
From: hp-pcd.cv.hp.com!lotus!"CRD!EJ_McGowan@LOTUS"
Subject: ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
~~inner_header~~
To: UNIXML::"homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
Subject: ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
Frank Tutzauer mentioned
>First, it is possible to get plain ASCII files and uncompressed postscript
>files. Many kind souls offered to send them to me, but they are also
>available via ftp from NETLIB@MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU and from
>GARBO.UWASA.FI (128.214.87.1).
Could I impose on one of the people who offered to send the ASCII file? I
don't live in a UNIX environment and would love to get the CAT II in plain
ASCII format. Plain EMAIL would be fine. Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 09:53:49 EST
From: perley@easygoer.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Subject: Training Hops - Up Or Out ?
>The conventional wisdom - and this applies to tomatoes and other plants,
>also - is that a trellis guiding shoots laterally gives easier access to
>the resulting fruit, as well as increasing exposure to light on a per-
>flower basis, since you don't have lower fruits shadowed by those above.
Since you are harvesting flowers, not fruit, is more light on the
flower helpful? You aren't really dealing with ripeness.
>From pictures I have seen of commercial hop picking, and what I do
myself, the usual procedure is to take the whole plant down
for harvest. A horizontal trellis would be an unnecessary complication
at harvest time, unless you also want the shade.
-don perley
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 09:45:10 EST
From: hp-pcd.cv.hp.com!lotus!"CRD!EJ_McGowan@LOTUS"
Subject: ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
~~inner_header~~
To: UNIXML::"homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
Subject: ASCII or uncompressed Postscript
Frank Tutzauer mentioned
>First, it is possible to get plain ASCII files and uncompressed postscript
>files. Many kind souls offered to send them to me, but they are also
>available via ftp from NETLIB@MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU and from
>GARBO.UWASA.FI (128.214.87.1).
Could I impose on one of the people who offered to send the ASCII file? I
don't live in a UNIX environment and would love to get the CAT II in plain
ASCII format. Plain EMAIL would be fine. Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 10:29:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Douglas Allen Luce <dl2p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Rehydrating Yeast
Excerpts from internet.homebrew-beer: 31-Mar-92 Rehydrating Yeast Jack
Schmidling@ddsw1.mc (1357)
> I had routinely rehydrated yeast with a small amount of wort for years but
recently switched to water on the advice of "experts".
...
> I do not know what the logic or reason is for rehydrating in water but it is
> clear that the time spent in this condition is not producing new yeast and it
> is hard to believe that yeast treated in this way is somehow capapable of
> producing better beer than yeast that is encouraged to actively reproduce.
> It's sort of like drinking tea and singing hymns at a bachelor party.
maybe some of us bachelors enjoy drinking tea and singing hymns!
i rehydrate my dry yeast in a little bit of warm water in a coffee mug,
and stir the thing up with a fork till there's no clumps left. then i
dump it into the carboy. total time for process: 2-3 minutes.
i figure it's done to prevent the yeast from clumping up (and not having
some of it work).
you might be trying to start your yeast, rather than merely hydrate it!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 09:32:35 CST
From: Michael J. Gerard <mjgerard@eng.auburn.edu>
Subject: Mash Water
Full-Name: Michael J. Gerard
I'm brewing my first all grain recipe in a few weeks. We have about 11 pounds of grain (9 of those are pale ale). We are also mashing on an electric stove. One of the books I have suggests that you use at least 2 quarts of water per pound of grist on an electric stove. That comes out to 11*0.5 = 5.5 gallons of water. I usually try to have 7 gallons of wort at the start of the boil (which seems to come out to 5 gallons of beer after boiling and settling, etc.)
My question is will 1.5 gallons of sparge water be enough. I'm used to using something like 3-4 gallons with much less grain.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike Gerard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 11:11:04 -0500 (EST)
From: P_LABRIE@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Paul LaBrie)
Subject: re: U.S. brown sugar and molasses
I was interested in Carl West's comment on U.S. brown sugar --
specifically that some (most?) of it is manufactured by adding molasses back
to refined white sugar. This might explain the taste of the last bitter that
I had made.
I based an all-grain bitter on some of the recipes from one of Dave
Line's books. Not wanting to spend the money for demerara sugar, I went with
common brown sugar. The recipe also called for 1/8 of a cup of unsulphured
molasses for a 5 gallon batch (I do understand that molasses should be used
sparingly) Anyway, the brew came out rather nicely (IMHO) but tasters did ob-
serve that it had a distinctive molasses note -- not objectionable but defi-
nitely there. The brew did NOT have any sulfur odors or tastes.
S-O-O-O, the question is: RDoes anyone have any further detail on the
RcompositionS of U.S. brown sugar?S I could obviously just eliminate or
reduce the molasses addition, BUT it sure would be nice to know...
Thanks
- Paul -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 92 08:30:00 -0800
From: mcnally@wsl.dec.com
Subject: clearing problems
You will note that I said nothing about "haze". I said a clearing
problem. Simply put, it takes longer to clear all-grain beer than
extract beer. Extract beer clears within a few days in the secondary
and all-grain takes up to a month.
*Your* all-grain beer takes up to a month to clear, Jack. Mine takes
about a week. And believe it or not, your "clearing problems" are the
result of haze. The solution to the clearing problem is to wait for
the haze to precipitate out.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally mcnally@wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 92 11:06:44 EST
From: matth@bedford.progress.COM
Subject: "Real" homebrewers
Fred Condo Sez:
[Paraphrased]
That he just switched to all grain from extract and felt it was a painless
process
In reply to this, Arf Sez:
"Congratulations! Welcome to the club of real homebrewers."
To This I say:
Jack, your attitude bit is stuck. Just because someone doesn't do all grain
doesn't mean they aren't "real" homebrewers. It's like a 'C' programmer telling
an ADA programmer 'You`re not a real programmer because you don't use C'.
Many people don't have the time, money, or desire to go all grain. (Right now
I don't have the time, and it *is* more time consuming).
Enough said.
-Matth
Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}
God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 10:42:17 CST
From: jeff gale 283-4010 <gale@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: bottling question
In response to Ken's question I use 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 cups DME for priming
depending on how carbonated a particular style of beer is. I do prefer to
prime with DME over corn sugar as I believe that this reduces cidery flavors.
Try priming with DME and let us know which you prefer. Cheers!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Gale gale@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 08:44:00 PST
From: ALTIMARI@FOLSM3.intel.com
Subject: Liquid Yeast Question
I have a fairly simple question.
I activated a Wyeast liquid yeast package on
Sunday night. I was planning to do a partial
mash Pale Ale Monday night. The yeast package was
just barely starting to expand so I decided to
wait another day. On Tuesday morning the package
was definately expanding and as fate has it I was
unable to brew Tuesday night. It is now Wed. morning
and the package is seriously expanded and looks like
it might explode.
Has anyone ever had one of the packages explode?
secondly,
will the yeast be effected in any way by this delay
before use?
Steve Altimari
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 11:45:13 CST
From: caitrin lynch <lyn6@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Yeast Culturing
I have an ale sitting in a secondary fermenter with quite a bit of yeast on
the bottom. My question is what is the best way to culture, or at least
preserve this yeast for my next batch short of immediately fermenting it in
this carboy?
Cheers,
C.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 09:41 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES@NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Welcome Aboard
Hey... I see Paul Farnsworth is attempting to join our little communtity!
Well welcome Paul, we could sure use some of your expertise on frequent
occasion. Please Paul introduce yourself, for those that don't know you
or your expertise. What a great resource we have here. I'm amazed it hasn't
been taxed or baned yet!
Bob Jones
------------------------------
Date: Wednesday, 1 Apr 1992 09:43:32 EST
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Rehydrating Dried Yeast
Full-Name:
Jack S. said:
>I had routinely rehydrated yeast with a small amount of wort for
>years but recently switched to water on the advice of "experts".
>Not one to take advice without a pinch of salt, I tried it and
>was so impressed with the vigorous foaming of EDME in water that
>I assumed that the dryed product must contain a nutrient and
>henceforth, rehydrated in water.
>In my current life as a yeast culturing microbiologist, I noted
>that when I started a culture of EDME in water, the cells in a
>water solution showed no signs of reproduction even 24 hours
>later, in spite of the successful growth on the petri medium and
>slant.
OK, Jack, let me add my two cents worth. Of course water is not
a good medium for yeast growth. The only reason I know of for
rehydrating dried yeast cells in water is that the difference in
osmotic pressure on the yeast cell walls is kept down, allowing
more of the cells to rehydrate without bursting (than if you
rehydrated them in wort). This process may take about 5 or 10
minutes. Then you immediately put them in a growth medium, such
as wort.
It is sort of like eating some food and taking some aspirin and
vitamins before going to the bachelor party. <grin>
Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet: 1:109/131
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 10:35:18 -0800
From: jpr@gene.com (Jerome Rainey - consult)
Subject: Anderson Valley brew list - ingredients
Ok, here's the list of Anderson Valley brews and their ingredients as printed on
the wall by the bar at the AV brewpub in Booneville, California.
Brew Malts Hops
Poleeko Gold 2-row pale, eroica, nugget, northern
Light Ale 40L crystal brewer, cascade
Extra Special 2-row pale, 40L nugget, eroica, northern
Bitter (ESB) crystal, Munich brewer, tettnanger
High Rollers 2-row pale (60%), northern brewer, mount hood
Wheat Beer Wheat (40%)
Boont Amber 2-row pale, 40L eroica, northern brewer,
Ale and 80L crystal willamette
Centennial 2-row pale, 40L nugget, eroica, northern brewer
(Batch #500) and 80L crystal, mount hood
20L Munich
Deep Enders 2-row pale, 40L nugget, northern brewer,
Dark Porter and 80L crystal, willamette
chocolate
Barney Flats 2-row pale, 40L eroica, northern brewer,
Oatmeal Stout and 80L crystal, cascades
Munich, chocolate,
wheat, roasted
barley, oats
I have tried the Boont amber in bottles (very good!) and the ESB, centennial
and oatmeal stout at the pub. So far, I have nothing to complain about. Their
beers are clean and malty, and the stout is so good I can hardly believe it. As
a matter of fact, I had better try it again to make sure I'm not imagining
things.
Cheers,
Jerome Rainey (jpr@gene.com)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 12:26:06 -0600
From: volkerdi@MHD1.moorhead.msus.edu (volkerding patrick)
Subject: Leine tours
Greg Roody asks about tours of the Leinenkugel brewery. While I've never
gone on the brewery tour, I know they have them. Many times on the road
in Wisconsin, going to see the Dead at Alpine or something :^) I've
spotted signs advertising the brewery tour. The _real_ brewers'
attraction in Chippewa Falls, IMHO, is the Chippewa Springs Co. They'll
sell you 5 gallon carboys filled with spring water, and in sturdy
fiberboard boxes with handles for $7 + $6 deposit. Quite a deal. I
bought three of 'em :^)
- -- Pat
(who's thinking of getting some Whitbread and Orval in the name
of science :^)
------------------------------
Date: 1 Apr 1992 13:04 EST
From: dab@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: hops in nj (sort of)
A friend of mine brought me an article on hops from a magazine
called "The Herb Companion." The article is great, but it's too
long to post, sorry. Anyway, listed at the end are sources for
hop seeds, vines, and cuttings (rhizomes). There's a place in Port
Murray, New Jersey listed called the Well-Sweep Herb Farm. I was
pretty psyched since I live about a 1/2 hour away from there. I gave
them a call and spoke with a very nice but clueless woman who said
that they do carry rhizomes for $6 ea. When I asked what kind they
carry she said "the kind that grow in New Jersey." Hmmm. I asked
if they were used for brewing and cooking (as opposed to decoration or
something) and she said they're excellent for beer. I also asked if she
could give me a hint as to what variety they're close to, but she said
she didn't know hops (I had figured that part out already).
Does anyone know what types of hops are indigenous to NJ? They sound
interesting but are a little (actually a lot) pricey. If you're
interested and want to call yourself, the place is:
The Well-Sweep Herb Farm
317 Mt. Bethel Rd.
Port Murray, NJ 07865
908-852-5390
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 15:18 CST
From: korz@ihlpl.att.com
Subject: ale vs. lager
Although anyone who saw my original post would not be confused, I
don't like being misquoted. Jack writes:
>korz@ihlpl.att.com
>
> >Personally, I'm not sure if I could tell the difference in a blind tasting
> of Ales versus Lagers. I'm also not sure if many "experts" could.....I don't
> think even Michael Jackson would be able to tell if it was a Lager or an Ale
> in a blind tasting.
The missing text "...." specifically mentions Samuel Adams (whose Lager and
Ale are both very highly dryhopped) as a *specific* example which would be
difficult to identify as lager or ale by MJ, due to the high hop nose.
> Thank you. Just for a refreser, although this thread...
> The only reasonable answer I picked out of the mess was that refrigerating
> the process makes it less likely that something will go wrong or change. The
> rest is pure hype.
That and the fact that the industrial brewers appear to go to great lengths
to avoid the introduction of flavor in their products. Witness Eckhardt's
book that gives the IBU for 1986 Budweiser and (I guess) 1989 Budweiser.
A-B lowered it to 12 IBU, which according to Eckhardt, is *at* the threshold
of human sensitivity to hop bitterness! At this rate they'll be bottling
seltzer water by the year 2000 :^).
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 07:50 CST
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Rehydrating Yeast
To: Homebrew Digest
Fm: Jack Schmidling
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
>I *do* pull out my chiller after it's done its job. I
then pitch the yeast, stir the wort into a vortex, and let settle for an hour
or 2 before transferring to a carboy.
That is an interesting alternative but I do not see the advantage of
resuspending the trub by churning it up when you take out the chiller.
Somehow I doubt that you will have the same amount of trub after one hour.
>I don't really see why Hot/Cold break "stuff" is better than just Hot/Cold
break. Discussions of break time deal only with the stuff produced at that
time.
Because there needs to be a distinction between the process state and the
trub.
>There's little room for confusion.
Tell me, when does the hot break become the cold break? Clearly, the cold
break stuff stuff contains hot break stuff.
>Now I've got a question for you. In your easymash setup, have you ever had
any problems with the window screen drain/spigot setup getting clogged with
hops/trub when you transfer off to the carboy?
Never! If the mash doesn't get stuck, why on earth would a little hops?
>From: korz@ihlpl.att.com
>Three comments on EASYMASH:
>1. The "screen-around-the-pipe" lauter tun is indeed simple, but I want
to again point out that the advantage of a more elaborate system would
be better extraction (drawing all the runoff from the center of the tun
reduces the amount of sugar you extract from the grains at the sides of
the tun). This is not a big deal for beginners, but you may want to
mention the trade-offs that you make going with a simple system. It
validates why your system is so much simpler -- some are sceptical when
you offer "something for nothing."
I am skeptical about your assumption that simple is necessarily less
efficient. Visualize the following:
A kettle with 5 inches of mashed grain and six inches of liquid. The grain
is totally saturated with the liquid and it does not make any difference at
what point the liquid is removed as long as the mash remains submerged in the
liquid. Osmotic pressure will always attempt to maintain a balance by
diluting the sugar no matter where it is in the kettle.
Just to test my theory, I have thouroghy stirred the spent grain and upon
settling again and re-establishing the proper temp, there is no increase in
the SG of the runoff. This would indicate that the extraction is homogeneous
throughout the mash.
I suspect the reason people believe what you are suggesting is because,
again, the experience of a commercial brewery does not extrapolate to the
home brewery. Most commercial operations sparge by spraying water on the top
of the mash not by covering with water. Spraying seems far less efficient to
me than submerging in water and would require capturing the trickle down over
the entire bottom area.
>3. "Strike" temperature, is not the temperature of the mash, rather,
the temperature of the "hot liquor" (water) before mixing with the
milled grains. If you correctly calculate the strike temperature
(based upon the mass of the water you will use, mass of the grain you
will use and the initial temperature you want your mast to be), upon
mashing-in, your mash will be at the correct, pre-calculated, initial
temperature and you won't have to add heat unless it is a very long
rest or if your mash tun is uninsulated. I think what you meant was:
"When the 'saccharification' temperature is reached, reduce the heat
and stir occassionally..."
All of the above is totally irrelevant to my process and sounds more like
rocket science than EASYMASH. Why on earth would anyone want to or need to
go through all that, when he/she can simply heat the mash to any temp
desried?
The answer is obviously that you are ignroing the fact that I am mashing in a
kettle and you are dumping your stuff in a bucket.
js
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 14:36:20 CST
From: whg@tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Rotten Egg Smell
The only times I've ever gotten a rotten egg smell is when I've fermented with
more than 75% wheat malt. Once with Red Star Lager (agast!) and once with
Wyeast German Ale yeast. The Red Star when on for days this way, finally died
out and no trace was left in the bottles. After a couple of months in the bottle
this beer to second in best of show out of about 120 enteries. The German Ale
yeast had the sulfur smell for about a day and then its gone. Two weeks in the
bottle and this beer is smooth clean and wonderful, better than the RS batch.
Just a data point,
Walter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 15:00:11 CST
From: whg@tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Re: Rehydrating Yeast
In Digest #854, JS comments that after rehydrating his EDME yeast in water
he sees no budding in 24 hrs, however in wort he sees budding. I think that
the rational for rehydrating in water runs along the follwing lines.
The yeast after happily growing in their normal aquaeous state, are rudely
dried into hard little balls. By first rehydrating the yeast in water it allows
them to return to a watery state, before being thrown to work in the wort. Its
a kinder genlter rehydration, sinse the high gravity wort will compress the bee-
jeebers of of the little guys. Sort of the opposite of divers comming up from
deep sea diving, they must go through a graudual decompression to keep from getting
the bends. Here, the yeast go into relatively low pressure water, and then into the
higher pressure wort, in the hopes that more of the little guys will survive the
transition unscathed. Momily or not? It's absolutely no more trouble to put it in
water for a few minutes so what the h*ll.
My two cents,
Walter Gude
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 21:39 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Head color in stouts and porters
As a brewer, I would place myself somewhere in between advanced beginner and
beginning intermediate (batch #15 is in the fermenter). Of these 15 batches,
I have only brewed 4 stout/porters. Actually, 3 dry stouts and 1 dry porter.
Of these 4 brews, 2 had a very creamy white head and two had a dark brown
head. Although all of the beers were quite tasty, I am curious as to what
causes the difference in the colors of the heads. Since I am currently an
extract brewer, I understand that I am somewhat at the mercy of the companies
that manufacture my malt extract. Nonetheless, I would like to know what
determines the color of my beer's head in stouts and porters, and what I can
do to influence that color.
Under the assumption that the head color is determined by ingredients and not
process, I looked back over my notes for the 4 beers in question and compiled
the following data:
Ingredient Stout 1 Porter Stout 2 Stout 3
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Extract Syrup A -- B C
Dark DME 3lb 5lb 1lb --
Flaked Barley 1c 1c -- 1c
Roasted Barley 1lb -- 1/2lb 1/2c
Crystal -- 4oz 1/2lb 1/2c
Black Patent -- 1c 1/2lb 1/2c
Chocolate Malt -- -- -- 1/2c
Quaker Oats -- -- -- 3/2c
Yeast M&F dry 1084 1084 1084
Priming 3/4c dex 1c amber 1c amber 5/4 c light
Head Color white white brown brown
Note: DME = dried malt extract (not diastatic malt blah blah blah)--all DME
is M&F DME; A = 4lb Muntons Export Stout (hopped); B = 6.6 lbs John Bull dark
(unhopped); C = 8 lb Mountmellick Stout (hopped); dex = dextrose; amber =
amber DME; light = light DME.
I really don't think that the specialty grains would markedly influence the
head color, but still I figured I should consider the possibility. And,
looking at the above table, it seems I'm probably correct that they don't:
Flaked barley, chocolate malt, and oats all went into one brown beer, but not
the other; roasted barley and crystal both went into one white beer, but not
the other (and similarly for the yeast and the priming sugar). I suppose
there might be some kind of synergistic effect (e.g., crystal in the presence
of roasted barley leads to brown heads but otherwise the head is white), but
somehow that seems unlikely to me. So really, the only thing left that might
account for the difference is the extract: Mountmellick and John Bull giving
brown heads, and Muntons syrup and DME without syrup giving white heads. Is
this correct? If so, what in the extracts accounts for the differences? I
would really like to know.
And now, on another subject: Looking at the table, you have a pretty good
idea of how I've brewed my stouts and porters (ok, you don't know about hops
or procedures, but still....). If you have any suggestions, let me know. I'm
on a quest to duplicate the many pints of Guinness I had in Dublin a few years
ago. It's probably an impossible task, but trying, I'm sure, will make me a
better person.
- --frank
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 23:00:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: cat's meow question & recipe
What does the label "best batch" over some of the recipes indicate?
Whatever it means, glad to see one of mine got one.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Berger || ARPA: peterb@cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student || Pete.Berger@andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law || BITNET: R746PB1P@CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU || UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Goldilocks is about property rights. Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism." -Bernard J. Hibbits
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 23:06:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Recipe: Mo' Better Bitter
Here's a recipe for a good to great bitter.
3 lbs. M&F Dry light malt extract
3 lbs. M&F Dry amber
1.5 lbs. Laaglander dry light
.5 lbs cracked toasted 2-row malt.
SMALL SMALL SMALL SMALL SMALL handful of roasted barley.
1 oz. Galena hops (8% alpha, so 8 HBU) for boil
1 oz. Fuggles (4% alpha, 4 HBU) for boil
1/2 oz. Fuggles, finishing
Wyeast irish ale yeast.
Substitute boiling hops at will, as long as you end up with 12 HBU.
The roasted barley is to add a hint of "red" color and just a touch of
flavor; if you despise the taste of roasted barley use chocolate malt
instead. The toasted barley is essential.
I used Wyeast Irish, but London ale would probably be even better.
I wish I had dry hopped this batch with an extra 1/2 oz. of Fuggles.
This is assertive and full-bodied, but drinkable by all. Keep the
fermentation temperature relatively high, around 68-70 degrees
fahrenheit, as a nice dicetyl is necessary to round this out.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Berger || ARPA: peterb@cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student || Pete.Berger@andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law || BITNET: R746PB1P@CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU || UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Goldilocks is about property rights. Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism." -Bernard J. Hibbits
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 23:13:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RECIPE: Goldenflower Ale
This may be the best beer I've ever brewed. It is without question
the lightest.
3.5 lbs. Laaglander Dry extra light malt.
1 lb. really good fragrant clover honey.
8 grams Galena hops (8% alpha, for boil).
1/2 oz. Fuggles, DRY HOP ONLY.
Wyeast American Ale yeast
Boil water, malt, honey, and galena hops. Cool, transfer to
fermenter, preferably with blow-off tube, and add started yeast.
After krausen subsides, rack to carboy with Fuggles in it, ferment
until hydrometer readings stabilize, about 5 days, probably. Bottle.
Drink young.
Primary fermentation should be around 68-71 degrees fahrenheit.
Secondary should be closer to 61-63.
This is an extremely estery beer ... heavy on the pear and raspberry.
If you want to understand the difference between ale and lager, brew
this one. It is the epitome of "fruity". The slight hop aroma and
very mild bitterness, tied with the lightness of the beer, really
allow the esters to shine through; I suspect the honey aided them
strongly.
This is the easiest drinking beer I've ever made. Low alcohol, too.
make it make it make it make it make it.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Berger || ARPA: peterb@cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student || Pete.Berger@andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law || BITNET: R746PB1P@CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU || UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Goldilocks is about property rights. Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism." -Bernard J. Hibbits
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 13:59:11 CST
From: ingr!b11!mspe5!guy@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Mail order prices
[Brian Gross' list of mailorder prices deleted]
I'd like to add one place to Bryan's list of suppliers; St. Patrick's of
Texas @ (512) 832-9045. I recently started doing business with them and I am
now a very satisfied customer. Their prices plugged into Bryan's chart look
like this:
Place Cascade pellets 2-row bulk pale wyeast choc. malt corn
2 oz barley malt extr. (1 #) sugar(5#)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
StPat's 2.80 (3 oz) .80 11.25/6lb 3.90 1.05 2.70 (3#)
6.00 (9 oz) DME - 8.25/3lb
St. Pat's packs their 3 oz. hops in airtight plastic containers with screw
tops and graduations on the side. This makes it easy to measure partial
amounts as well as reseal and store them. Their bulk liquid extract is stored
under CO2 and drawn fresh when ordered. It comes in nice clear P.E.T. jars
with screw top lids which are quite handy when empty. I recommend adding their
catalog to your collection.
- --
Guy McConnell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 01:15:18 -0600
From: Brian J Walter <walterbj@ernie.cis.uwosh.edu>
> Subject: Liquid crystal thermometers
>
> I am looking for a source for "stick-on" liquid crystal thermometers for my
> fermeters (carboys). I have found some aquarium thermometers that cover 70-90
>( good to determine when to pitch), but I'd like one that goes lower (down into
> the lager fermentation range). Has anyone seen such a thing? (At a reasonable
> price? My aquarium thermometers cost less than $2 each. I don't really expect
> to find a wider range for that price, but $20 would certainly be out of the
> question.
I found the same thing, (70-90 F) range in the aquarium thermometers,
but also found that there are Broad Range Reptile Thermometers available. ThThe
one I use is from Tetra, and ran me about $4.50. I use it on my carboys to
loosely monitor fermentation temperature. Since it is movable, it works even
better because I do not need one for each carboy.
Brian Walter
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #855, 04/02/92
*************************************
-------
