Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #0843
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 92/03/13 03:13:17
HOMEBREW Digest #843 Fri 13 March 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Help! I'm about to worry! (a-kellyc)
Homebrew shops in/around Albany NY (HOGLE RICHARD A )
beer grovel (dave ballard)
kathy ireland & SLO brewing (Sean J. Caron)
homebrew supply shops in Albany NY (Sean J. Caron)
re: IBU <-> HBU revisited... (darrylri)
lots o stuff (Russ Gelinas)
dark grains in beer (Tony Babinec)
Naperville Beer / Wine Stores (Roger Lepine)
Cornelius Keg info please (Glenn A. Tremblay 12-Mar-1992 1052)
What helps you in competitions? (Eric Mintz)
Microbrew in the Northeast. (Kevin Murray)
Flavor profiles of roasted malts and barley (Eric Mintz)
Liquid vs dry yeast (Robert Schultz)
Lager vs. Ale Yeast (GEOFF REEVES)
Wyeast in AHA (donald oconnor)
More translators needed for phrasebook (chuck)
honey basil ale--results (Bryan Gros)
Non-gluten beer (Michael L. Hall)
Low Yield (Gordon Baldwin)
Wyeast woes (Rob Malouf)
stores in NY,other ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
Brewing Technique Statistics (Fred Condo)
Bashing the big boys from Micah Millspaw (Bob Jones)
Re: Profiles, Wyeast (Jeff Frane)
my first lager (dek)
Rust in your brew pot (GEOFF REEVES)
Recipe? (John Freeborg)
Please cancel my subscription (William Lyttle)
Rust, Taxes (jack schmidling)
Cat's Meow Steam Beer (page 42) (nate)
Frustrated and Nonplussed (chris campanelli)
Send submissions to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 92 15:47:33 PST
From: a-kellyc@microsoft.com
Subject: Help! I'm about to worry!
Howdy all-
This is my first time on HBD. I've gotton some pretty good info here, and
hope that some of you kind souls (snicker snicker) can help with a possible
problem I'm having with my latest batch.
I'm new to brewing. I brewed my 5th batch Monday night. (3-9) My problem
is a possible stalled fermentation. I don't know if I should repitch (not
an option because I don't have access to same yeast), or stir it up some
or do I have 5 gallons of bacteria infested waste?
I'm using the same recipe I used for my second batch. The only real difference
is that I'm using liquid yeast for the first time. (WYeast European Ale)
I used Edme for my previous batches, but wanted to try something new
because by homebrew smelled more like a bakery than hops and barley. Also
because I'm going to start all grain brewing in a couple of weeks and wanted to experiment now.
It took 24 hours to show any activity. This activity has amounted to a
kreusen that never quite made it to the blow-off tube. Usually get 1-2
quarts of blow-off w/Edme. I'm geting about one bubble every 20-30 seconds
36 hours after I pitched. I broke the inner pack Sunday and it swelled
to the brink of exploding by pitching time. A friend suggested I may
have left some bleach in the carboy, but I doubt it.
Another strange thing with this batch is that the O.G. was much lower
than the earlier batch using the same recipe. This batch 1.032 the
earlier batch 1.045. The recipe was the same except I used .25 lb less
crystal in the last batch.
7 lbs light malt extract (Scottish, bulk)
*1 or .75 lb crystal barley
1/4 c roasted barly
2 oz fuggles (boil 60min)
1.5 oz halatauer (sp) (finish)
1 tsp Irish moss.
Thanks for your time and effort. I look forward to your replies. BTW is
there anyone out there from the Seattle area that can send me info on
HB clubs. I'm interested in trading homebrews.
Kelly Connell-- a-kellyc@microsoft.com
------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 92 08:19 EST
From: HOGLE RICHARD A <HOGLE@CRDGW2.crd.ge.com>
Subject: Homebrew shops in/around Albany NY
Markku Koivula asks about homebrew shops in the Albany NY area. I know of
three:
Hennessy Homebrew Open weeknights and weekends
470 N Greenbush Rd about 10 min from downtown Albany
518-283-7094 from downtown take I-90E to rt 4, then towards
Troy
Beer Necessities Haven't been there yet, don't know the hours
306 Hudson Ave Albany but it is near downtown Albany
518-434-0381
Homebrew Haven Their grand opening is this weekend, Mar 14-15,
2925 Hamburg St so I don't kown too much about them (but they
Schenectady NY are a few minutes from my place so I looking
518-356-7141 forward to stopping in). 15-20 min from
downtown Albany, I-90W(thruway) to Exit 25
to Curry Rd to Rt 146 (which is Hamburg st)
Rich Hogle
hogle@crd.ge.com
------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 1992 8:39 EST
From: dab@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: beer grovel
hey now- i have a shameless grovel to present to you. is there
anyone living in the top left-hand corner of this country who
would be willing to send me a six-pack of red hook's ballard bitter?
i can't find it anywhere here (cent. nj) and really want to
get my paws on some since we have the same name and all. i
obviously would send $$ to cover all expenses. let me know if
you can help me out....
iko-
dab
=========================================================================
dave ballard "Life may not be the party we hoped for,
dab@dasher.cc.bellcore.com but while we're here we should dance."
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 09:10:58 EST
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS@TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: kathy ireland & SLO brewing
mike tavis writes
>Then again, perhaps it's just as well. The thought of a micro with one
>of the world's highest paid models [ireland] as part of their add campaign is
>truly frightening. Leave the bikinis to the big boys.
i disagree!
to the extent that a truely beautiful and wildly famous person is seen
supporting (and investing in!) good beer, we should be thankfull!
perhaps when miss ireland's a/b contract is complete, she will be free to
plug the type of beer she must really enjoy!
come to think of it, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? so i
guess the wildly famous part is most important. how about barbara bush as
a spokesmodel? "Just say no to watery beer!" sexy smile, bottle of snpa in
hand ... ah madison ave .............
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 09:30:18 EST
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS@TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: homebrew supply shops in Albany NY
Markku Koivula asks about homebrew shops in Albany, ny
i live just north of albany in saratoga springs, ny. there are several
shops in the area. i generally frequent Hennessy Homebrew on rt. 4 in
east greenbush, ny (about 5 minutes east of albany). There is a place
in downtown albany, the name of which escapes me right now. if you get
in touch with me directly
carons@tbosch.dnet.ge.com
i'll be happy to give you more specifics.
all usual disclaimers about financial interest apply (other than giving
them some large percentage of annual income on a regular basis 8-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 06:54:22 PST
From: darrylri@microsoft.com
Subject: re: IBU <-> HBU revisited...
whg@sunfa.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude) writes:
> Several sources give the %utilization number as 28% for leaf, 30% for pellet,
> given a 60 minute boil of "standard" gravity wort (1.040-1.045). Plugging
> it all in we get IBU=HBU(or AAU)*~4.5.
The numbers I've seen from Dr. Fix indicate more like 25% and 30%. Also,
George has indicated that pressure can have a dramatic effect on the
utilization.
> While persuing Micheal Jackson's New World Guild to Beer, he references
> 45 IBUs as extremely bitter. Now my beers with 10AAUs for 60 min. are
> not overly bitter. Why? Because like most partial mash brewers, I only
> boil about 2.5 gallons of wort. This means my boil has a gravity of about
> 1.090 for my "standard" beer. And my utilization is obviously far less
> than 30%.
>
> Does anyone have a formula for %utilization, incorperating gravity
> and boil time?
See the hops special issue of zymurgy, an article by Jackie Rager
on calculating hop bitterness. His formulae (which are sometimes
difficult to follow, sadly), includes a fudge factor for gravities
over 1.050. As I recall (and I am doing this from memory), for
each 10 points above 50 of gravity, Rager figures a 5% reduction
in utilization. I don't know what he bases this on.
> (I understand that this information may be buried in a Lotus 1-2-3
> spreadsheet authored by the infamous Mr. Richman.)
I'm not sure to what I can attribute my infamy (I hope it was
something really good, though), but my original spreadsheet
was written in Excel for the Mac. It had cells for pellet and whole
hop utilization right up at the top, out in the open. There was no
fudge factor for high gravities, and it is naturally inaccurate
because of that.
The Brewer's Worksheet, as I called it, has subsequently
been ported by others to 1-2-3 and Excel for the PC, and was available
on sumex-aim.stanford.edu and mthvax.cs.miami.edu for anonymous
ftp. (Has this changed? I haven't looked since I uploaded it.)
--Darryl Richman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1992 10:18:11 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: lots o stuff
How many gallons in the brewery unit, bbl?
The Czech Budweiser bottle I got had Budvar in smaller letter on the
label. Nice brew, lighter than I expected, but still thick as mud compared
to the US version.
I've got a fridge that has 2 settings, below 0 and off. How do the
Hunter Energy monitors et. al. work; are they just automatic ways of
unplugging the fridge when it gets too cold, or do they work more internally?
Thanks to the IBU/HBU/AAU discussion, I've realized why my last few brews
have been too bitter: I went to full boils, but never decreased my hopping
rates! Thanks folks.
Re. Kathy Ireland commercial: It's actually a good ad for Guinness
when they all hesitate as she says Bud is the national beer of Ireland.
Re. spraying droplets to reduce dust: Does that mean that when my
brewroom gets full of steam from boiling wort, it's helping clean the
air? I already knew it was cleaning the walls (the concrete gets dripping
wet).
Finally, Jack asks Why Wyeast doesn't mass produce a simple ale yeast?
Could it be they are not really all that interested in going "big time", but
are more into the enjoyment of providing an interesting variety of clean yeast?
Big time supplying means getting into the whole rat race of advertising
and pushing your product, and getting caught in economic cycles and .....
all things that can get in the way of enjoying your work. If I was Dave L.,
I wouldn't try to go for quantity. I'm not trying to give him any altruistic
properties he may not have (I don't know him at all), but there are some
people in the "marketing" business who are not just out to make gobs of money.
Finally (again): If the yeast is in the outer Wyeast packet, then why
not just cut it open *wihout* ever breaking the inner seal, and just make
a starter yourself? You should make a starter eventually anyway....
Russ the longwinded
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 9:46:35 CST
From: tony@spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: dark grains in beer
Dark, highly-kilned grains are used for two reasons: color and
flavor. In small amounts, they'll contribute color and have little
or no flavor impact. In large amounts, they'll contribute both.
There are three basic highly-kilned grains:
- roasted barley, which is made from unmalted barley,
- chocolate malt,
- black patent malt.
In a previous posting, someone alluded to a black unmalted barley.
I'm not familiar with it.
In darkening "power," for a given amount of malt added to a given
amount of wort, their order is chocolate malt-roasted barley-black
patent malt. Usage of malts should be dictated by style
considerations of the beer you're making. But I don't want to
legislate morality. Do whatever you want!
Roasted barley is the signature grain in dry stouts. Typical
additions are 1 pound of roasted barley for a 5-gallon batch of
stout. Dave Line's recipe for stout is useful here:
7 pounds pale malt
1 pound roasted barley
1 pound flaked barley
hops and yeast of course
Roasted barley can be used in smaller amounts in some other styles.
Chocolate malt is described as "sweet." It can be used in such
styles as mild, brown ale, porter, stout, Oktoberfest, or bock.
Amounts vary. In porters, you might use 1/2 pound or so. In an
Oktoberfest, you might be looking for a bit of darkening not
obtained by other grains in your recipe, such as Munich or crystal
malt, and so you add a couple of ounces, but maybe no more, of
chocolate or black malt to your mash. After all, you probably
don't want a chocolaty Oktoberfest. On the other hand, such a
flavor might be desired in a Traditional Bock.
Black patent malt is predominantly used as a coloring malt in small
additions. The exception is in porters, where its "sharp" flavor
character is desired. A black patent malt addition to a porter
might consist of 1/2 pound for a 5-gallon batch. More than that,
and you might have overdone it!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 10:51:27 EST
From: Roger Lepine <lepine@hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: Naperville Beer / Wine Stores
My brother-in-law recently moved to Naperville, Ill., 30 minutes west of
Chicago. He was wondering if there are any wine / beer making stores in
the area. Can anybody please help us?
Cheers,
Roger L.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 07:53:39 PST
From: Glenn A. Tremblay 12-Mar-1992 1052 <tremblay@vino.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Cornelius Keg info please
I would greatly appreciate if any of you Cornelius keg
users could pass on some of your knowledge on how to setup, test
and use this system. I just purchased all the parts I need and
am about to hook it all together and prepare to us it. I'd like
to utilize all that wonderful learned experience out there to
increase my success rate of using this new system.
Although I'm looking for any useful information, I do have some
specific questions.
Should I expect these systems to be totally leak free? For instance,
should I always leave the pressure on? Or do you turned it off when
not in use (and expect it to hold the original pressure)? Assuming
the beer is carbonated and is not absorbing any more C02.
Pressures. Someone posted a real informative note about adjusting
the beverage hose length to control faucet (tap) pressure. From this
I understand that I should have a keg pressure of 10-12 PSI and
a faucet pressure of about 4 PSI. Is this correct?
Is it ok to "larger" brew in these kegs for extended periods of
time?
Where can I get a "rebuild" kit for my used kegs? Is there a well
known source? Or should I contact my local beverage dealer?
Thanx in advance for *any* keg related information.
/Glenn Tremblay
BTW, I purchased my equipment from Superior Products, a wholesaler
of restaurant and bar equipment. They carry all sorts of beer
related supplies. They will sell to the genral public and have a
catalog. Their number is 800-328-9800 for anyone that might be
interested. (...insert standard disclaimer here).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 09:13:36 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm@bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: What helps you in competitions?
>From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
>So, how do you determine what is technically better? You do
>studies, with as many factors controlled as possible, and with as
>little known to those tasting the results as possible. Some
>clubs have sponsored these studies, some are done for magazines
>such as _zymurgy_. But in general, there is no funding for
>homebrewers to perform these types of studies (any advice on
>applying for a grant to do this?).
[motherhood and apple pie on]
IMHO, one of the fascinating elements of home-brewing is experiment and
discovery. Sure, less experienced home-brewers will try what the more
experienced brewers suggest but, then, it is up to each individual to
decide what works (favorably) and what doesn't. That's the fun. Then,
of course, another part of the fun is to convince others that you have
discovered the magic technique :-) :-)
[motherhood and apple pie off]
[soap-box on]
So, when we disagree on stuff (e.g. dry vs. liquid yeast), we should
realize that the person on the other end is as passionate about brewing
as we are and is in search of the holy brew just like us. Even when we
"know" the other is "wrong", just remember that half the fun of
home-brewing is finding out from one's own experimentation rather than
finding out from another's. If brewing were a cut-and-dry process, than
the fun would be gone.
[soap-box off]
Cheers,
- --Eric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 08:24:07 PST
From: kmurray@apd.MENTORG.COM (Kevin Murray)
Subject: Microbrew in the Northeast.
My family just spent a wonderful week in the Portland Oregon area. Much of
that time was spent drinking home brew and the local micro brew beer. My
brother now has the taste for good beer but doesn't know where to look back
home.
Can anyone provide information on.
Homebrew supply stores in the Rhode Island/Boston/New Haven area.
Micro breweries in the same area.
Send your reply to me and I'll repost the filtered set.
Thanks
Kevin
kmurray@mentorg.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 09:51:39 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm@bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: Flavor profiles of roasted malts and barley
From: arf@gagme.chi.il.us (jack schmidling)
> I know nothing about "profiles" but I would be amazed if two ounces of
> roasted barley could be detected by even the most gifted nose.
I have been working on a stout recipe over the last several months. On
my second to last attempt, I reduced the amount of chocolate malt from
6oz to 4oz -- 6oz tasted a little strong but 4oz was about right (I
wanted just a slight hint of chocolate malt flavor). Caveats: other
things changed as well from batch (e.g. mash temps, different yeast,
etc.) to batch so this was by no means a controlled experiment.
A suggestion: try your experiment again (side by side taste tests using
different roasted grains) but use smaller amounts. I suspect that the
grains tend to taste the same (burnt!) when used in high concentration.
If you try this, I would be very interested to hear your findings!
- --Eric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1992 09:26 CST
From: Robert Schultz <SCHULTZ@admin1.usask.ca>
Subject: Liquid vs dry yeast
I assume that the liquid/dry yeast general agreement also holds
true for brewing wine (i.e. liquid is in general a purer strain than
dried yeast).
Can someone supply/direct me to a source of information regarding
liquid yeasts for brewing wine? Is there a similar digest for wine brewers?
Information I have gained here for brewing beer is extremely valuable, but I
would like to have a similar source for brewing wine.
Thanks.
Robert Schultz
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 10:20:13 -0700
From: 105277@essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Lager vs. Ale Yeast
> Jack S. writes:
> It is obvious from reading the many and varied responses to my question,
> that
> the tastes are highly variable, to the point that ale can be made to taste
> like lager and vice versa. Therefore tasting different brands of the two
> styles to get the feel is utterly useless. That is why I asked for
> experience from anyone who has conducted experiments using the same
> batch of
> wort but different (ale/lager) yeasts and fermenting temps.
>
I've done this with several batches and I can tell you that it's
too complicated an issue to resolve. As several people have
pointed out there are general differences between ale and
lager yeasts and there are general differences between the
beers produced by each type of yeast. However there are LOTS
of variables. The result is the differences I tasted between ale
and lager in one batch were not the same as the differences I
tasted between ale and lager in a different batch. It depends a
lot on what the yeast is fermenting. Many of the differences
between ale and lager yeasts didn't even appear in my tests
because I used the same process (e.g. temp, duration, etc).
Lager yeast works better with the lagering process. Ale yeast
works better with the ale process. So even using the same
batch of wort to really get the difference you would have to
try both with a lager process and both with an ale process and
probably both with an intermediary process. Then figure out
all the differences. Then change your recipe a bunch of times.
Do it all again. Then see if you can come up with some general
ideas of the differences - which is what we started with
anyway. The bottom line is yes, you can make ales that taste
like lagers and visa versa but you will be hard pressed to
duplicate a particular brand (or style) of beer if you use a
different type of yeast.
Geoff Reeves
Atomic City Ales
Los Alamos NM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 11:27:21 -0600
From: oconnor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
Subject: Wyeast in AHA
Quick scenario
|. Tim M and Jack S play tag team Jeopardy against two rocks
2. 20 games played
3. Tim M and Jack S win all 20 games
Which of the following is true
a. Rocks can't form answers in form of a question
b. Tim M and Jack S are not dumber than two rocks
Answer
a. Is true
b. May be true but can't be determined from the above scenario
Thanks Tim. I'm beginning to see the merits of this type of reasoning.
------------------------------
Date: Thu Mar 12 12:24:33 1992
From: synchro!chuck@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: More translators needed for phrasebook
I am starting work on the Beer Drinker's Phrasebook.
I still need volunteers to translate and proof for the following languages:
English (British), Danish, Swedish, Gaelic, Spanish, Norwegian
I would also like translators for these languages, or at least someone to proof
my translations:
Japanese, Welsh
=====
Chuck Cox
SynchroSystems
chuck@synchro.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 10:15:15 PST
From: bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: honey basil ale--results
About my request for information on beer styles, most people said
Fred Eckhard's book, and I will get this. Also, a couple of people
said that the latest Zymurgy Special Issue is on beer styles, but
were unsure as to its value.
The Honey Basil Ale that I made and posted the recipe to a while
back was finally sampled. The result is good beer!
I used one ounce of basil, about a third of the "bunch" I bought
at the grocery store. This was sweet basil. The beer had a huge
basil aroma, and quite a strong basil taste. It was slightly
bitter, but not too bad. I primed with 1/2 cup honey, and the
carbonation is good. There is really no honey taste, however.
I think all the basil and hops cover over the honey flavor.
So I will make a couple of changes next time (less basil, less
hops), but I will recommend the beer. We'll see how it ages.
And to whoever was looking for "Italian beer", I don't really
know what that is. But I have seen several recipes for beer
with garlic, and the above basil beer would be good with
Italian foods.
Recipe available upon request.
- Bryan
p.s. The pub at which I had the original Honey Basil ale now has
a fennel porter. I didn't care for it too much, with the heavy
licorice (sp?) flavor, but some might.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 11:16:05 MST
From: mlh@cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Non-gluten beer
A non-homebrewer friend of mine has recently been told that he
has to go on a non-gluten diet. Alas, one of his favorite
activities is drinking a cold one while boating on the lake.
Apparently, barley, wheat, and oatmeal are no-nos, but rice is
okay. Does anyone know of a commercially available beer (if you
could call it that) that has no barley or wheat, and is made
only of rice? Yes, I suggested any American beer :^), but
*any* amount of barley is bad. Commercially available is
necessary because he's not a homebrewer.
Of course he's thought of the standard alternatives, such as
liquor, wine coolers, wine, etc., but I can understand why he
wants a nice crisp beer instead. Let me know if anyone has
any ideas.
Mike Hall
hall@lanl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 10:20:19 PST
From: Gordon Baldwin <hpubvwa.nsr.hp.com!sherpa2!gbaldwin>
Subject: Low Yield
I have been getting a low yield out of my grain and I expect it to be in
my sparging. The malt ingredients are :
8 lb klages
1/2 lb crystal
1/2 lb munich
I do an infusion mash for about 45 minutes in 2.5 gallons water. The iodine
test shows full conversion. I then dump the whole mess out to my ZapPap
lauter tun. I then slowly pour in my 4 gallons 170 degree sparg water,
keeping the level of the water above the grain bed. I open the tap on
the bottom bucket all the way and the water dumps through in about 15
minutes. I don't recycle any of the runnings.
My sg after my 45 minute boil is only 1.032. This seems to be way to low
after looking at various recepies. I think I should be getting above
1.040. Does anyone have a good description of using the ZapPap? Am I not
letting it sit long enough (ie letting it run too fast ?) My grain is
well cracked. I crack it using the roller mill at The Cellar brew shop
it cracks the grain well without powdering the husks. I checked the
grind with the pictures in TCJoHB and if anything mine is cracked
smaller. But then again I have never had a problem with a stuck sparge.
Gordon Baldwin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1992 13:54 EST
From: Rob Malouf <V103PDUZ@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Wyeast woes
I think part of the problem certain people are having with Wyeast is that they
have been reading the HBD too much. Posts about Wyeast seem to fall into two
classes: complaints about faulty packaging, bacterial contamination, and odd
mutations, and unsupported claims about Wyeast's overwhelming superiority to
dried yeasts. I can see why this might appear contradictory and dogmatic.
Perhaps those of us who have used Wyeast with no problems should speak up.
Switching to Wyeast was the single best thing I did to improve my beer. It
made a bigger difference than switching to all-grain brewing. I have never had
any problems with the packaging, I have never had a contaminated batch with
Wyeast, and I have never noticed any inconsistencies in the behavior of the
yeast strains. I actually spend less on yeast now than I did when I use dried
yeast. I have found that I really like their Chico Ale yeast (#1056), and I use
it for everything but weizens. Before I learned better yeast culturing
techniques, I kept the slurry from batch to batch in a mason jar in the back of
my fridge. Sometimes it sat there for months between batches, and I never had
any trouble with contamination or mutation. I've used packages well past their
expiration date, and they have always swelled up within a few days. I even
once used a package that had survived a week-long unrefrigerated move in the
heat of August! Now, maybe I've just been amazingly lucky, but I don't think
you should let all the horror stories about Wyeast scare you.
Rob Malouf
v103pduz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 17:31 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753@mcimail.com>
Subject: stores in NY,other
Date: 12-Mar-92 Time: 12:30 PM Msg: EXT03060
Hi folks,
This is my last post, so Thanks for the help and suggestions. I have learned
a lot and hope to subscribe again once I start school in the fall.
RE: HB stores in NY. In the Manhattan yellow pages there is one listed:
Milan home wine and beer 212-226-4780
57 Spring St. toll free 800-beer-keg
Manhattan fax 212-431-6985
Free brochures
Kits and supplies
home vinegar making kits
VISA and MasterCard
RE: Beer and food recipes. The Irish Trade Board have a free recipe book for
St. Pat's day. It has recipes using Irish ingredients, among them oatmeal
cookies, baked Irish salmon with ginger and beef braised in Guinness stout. You
can obtain the book by calling 800-289-4735.
RE: Beer tasting Monday in NY. (quote from NY Times) Guinness is one beer
that will definitely not be on tap at the third annual American Beer Tasting
Monday. It's being held by the American Institute of Wine and Food from 6 to
8:30 pm at Bridgewater's in the Fulton Market Building at the South Street
Seaport. This year Michael Jackson, an English expert on beer, will be the
guest of honor.
To accompany mor than 25 beers from small American breweries there will be an
array of food from more than two dozen New York restaurants.
Tickets are $15 for members of the institute, $25 from nonmembers. They can
be ordered by calling 212-447-0456. American Express Cards are accepted.
(unquote). When I called, they said that 24 breweries were small (Telluride,
Brooklyn, etc) and that a few biggies would be there (Miller, for example). I
asked, and they said Anchor and Boston BC would be there, Sierra Nevada would
not.
Disclaimer: I have no association with the store and I've never been there. I
have no association with the Irish Trade Board, I'm not even Irish. :) I have
no idea who the American Institute of Wine and Food are, and I'll be in
Michigan Monday anyway.
Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY
Don't send any mail. This account no longer exists.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1992 11:31 PST
From: Fred Condo <CONDOF@CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject: Brewing Technique Statistics
In #842, Steve Russell gives us a table regarding the 1990 national
competition, and writes:
>Besides, the jump from 67% to 84% in liquid yeast cited above
>is *tremendous* evidence that this is a great way to improve
>your beer. But again, it is only correlation, as statistical
>types will likely point out.
Unfortunately, it's not even that. I was going to put these data through
my stats program, but found the data weren't actually present in the
table. It was easy to convert the percentages in the "entries" column
to raw data, because the total number of entries wa given. But it's
not possible to convert the percentages in the "placed 1 2 or 3"
column to raw data, because the total number of such *winners* was not
given.
Without knowing the size of the data set, I don't think it's possible
to determine if the difference in proportions is statistically
significant. CAVEAT: I am not a statistician, and I usually don't
analyze data in this form; I usually use ANOVA on data structures of
my own design.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1992 13:03 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES@NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Bashing the big boys from Micah Millspaw
The last few days there has been some post about bashing the
big brewers. I think that it is hardly fair to attack them on a digest
which they do not praticipate on. In defense of the big boys. They do
a great deal of research that benifits all brewers. Many of the new
hop varieties that we HBers get to play with were developed at their
expence. At MBAA meetings I've had the opportunity to talk to brewers
from many of the big companies, they are knowledgable and very
informative about brewing,and they are very interested in homebrewing
some even have it as a hobby. So go easy in the BUDMILCOORs bunch
because even if you don't like their products, they can provide us
HBers with a lot if good info, and those great SS kegs.
Micah Millspaw 3/12/92
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 11:50 PST
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Profiles, Wyeast
homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Verify address before sending) writes:
Jack Schmidling writes:
>
> >From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
>
> >As far as Mr Schmidling's opinions on the best way to package yeast, I
> would suggest that having the yeast and nutrient in one package was the
> whole point!
>
> The business world is littered with failures who missed the point.
>
Ah, but since the business is a raging success it doesn't seem to be
WYeast who have missed the point.
> > and in fact largely responsible for the success of WYeast.
>
> It now seems to be largely responsible for a great deal of frustration.
>
> >I am also very aware of the huge amount of effort that Dave is putting
> into correcting the problem with his packaging, a problem that was
> neither inherent in the design
>
> If the package does not do what it is supposed to do it IS a design problem.
>
> > nor of his own doing.
>
> Is the Devil making his packaging decisions?
>
As I explained once before (please take notes this time): the problem
resulted from a material failure, which was a result of the oil company
that makes the plastic changing their formula and reducing the
structural strength of the package. It is clearly NOT a design problem,
and whatever quarrel you may have with the success of WYeast and the
purity of their product, the fact is that the company is very
successful, and the product revolutionized homebrewing.
> >WYeast is considering adding some new strains of yeast to their existing
> line. These would sell for less money than the current package, and
> would NOT include a starter.
>
> Sounds like he has been reading my mind. But why "new strains"? Why not
> sell the tried and proven ones without starter? Why not just a lower cost
> option for brewers willing to do a little more fiddling?
>
> My advice is to pick a standard ale and market the hell out of it. If they
> got the volume up, there is no reason why they could not drive dry yeast off
> the shelves. They are destroying any chances of economies of scale by
> spreading themselves so thin.
>
This is in fact pretty good advice--as long as you don't understand the
market. When WYeast introduced their Brewers' Choice strains a few years
ago, they offered one ale and one lager strain. The demand (remember
supply & demand?) for additional strains was so great that David has had
to continually expand his list.
Why do you continue to suggest that WYeast is a marketing failure when
the evidence is overwhelming against you?
As far as a lower-cost option for brewers willing to do a little more
fiddling is concerned--it already exists. Ever brewer I know that uses
liquid yeasts managed to contain costs by re-using their yeast at least
once. This brings the cost of using liquid yeast well down to the level
of using dry yeast (especially when considering that most sources
suggest two pkgs of dry yeast when pitching) while avoiding the inherent
problems of contamination from dried yeast packaging.
As far as providing the packaging without the starter: a significant
number of the retailers who handle WYeast said that their customers
would not buy the yeast without starters. Once again, the market knows
what it wants, which is not necessarily what *you* think it should want.
Hope this clears things up for you.
- --Jeff Frane
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 17:21:41 -0500
From: dek@linus.mitre.org
Subject: my first lager
Full-Name: Douglas E. Kolb
Hello homebrewers. I am brewing my first lager today (my third
brew altogether). I will be following Papazian's Dr. Bock
recipe. I have several questions:
(1) Do I pitch at 78 degrees?
(2) will blowoff begin around 12 hours after pitching like
ale?
(3) will blowoff last around the same amount of time as ale?
(4) How do I know when fermentation is complete? With the
ales that I have brewed I waited until at least 2 minutes
elapsed between bubbles through the fermentation lock.
Any other comments on the differences between brewing ales
and lagers will be appreciated.
(I know, "relax, have a homebrew")
thanks in advance,
Doug Kolb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 17:18:13 -0700
From: 105277@essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Rust in your brew pot
> From: mmlai!lucy!gildner@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Gildner)
>
> I've got an enamaled porcelain brew pot with a quarter sized chip in
> the bottom. Every time I take the pot out to brew a batch I've got to
> work hard to remove the recently formed rust on the exposed steel. Does
> anyone have any suggestion (aside from buying a new pot) on how to fix
> the porcelain? In the mean time, will a little rust be harmful to the
> wort?
>
I have a similar chip on the inside of my smallest enamaled pot. I
haven't had any problem with it so my advice (and this is not
original) is not to worry about it. This is not to say that there
is not the _potential_ for problems (e.g. metalic taste in your
beer) but rust isn't really terrible stuff. It doesn't hold unbound
oxygen (which is why tetnus lives in rust) and any beasties that
are living in the porous material are going to be boiled to death
anyway. I wouldn't ferment in a rusty pot but boiling in a pot with
a little rust isn't likely to ruin your beer.
If it bothers you you could try putting epoxy over the rusted area
but be aware that beasties can live in scratches in epoxy too.
It is possible to re-enamal metals and I know some home jewlry makers
that do enamal but I suspect that it's not worth the trouble.
Geoff Reeves
Atomic City Ales
Los Alamos NM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 15:09:40 CST
From: johnf@persoft.com (John Freeborg)
Subject: Recipe?
Has anybody found an extract recipe for duplicating Pete's Wicked
Ale or Sprecher Amber? These are two of my favorites and I'd love
to get a batch of them going. I've looked through the cats meow
text file, but don't have a good idea of exactly which recipes
might be close.
Thanks,
- John
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Freeborg Software Engineer Persoft
johnf@persoft.com 465 Science Dr.
608-273-6000 Madison, WI 53711
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 07:02:00 EST
From: William.Lyttle@f135.n151.z1.FIDONET.ORG (William Lyttle)
Subject: Please cancel my subscription
Please cancel my subscription.
- --- QuickBBS 2.76 (Gamma-1)
- --
William Lyttle via FidoNet node 1:369/11
UUCP (smart): William.Lyttle@f135.n151.z1.FIDONET.ORG
UUCP (not-so): cybernet.cse.fau.edu!branch!151!135!William.Lyttle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 21:05 CST
From: arf@gagme.chi.il.us (jack schmidling)
Subject: Rust, Taxes
To: Homebrew Digest
Fm: Jack Schmidling
>From: mmlai!lucy!gildner@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Gildner)
Hey there, I've got an enamaled porcelain brew pot with a quarter sized chip
in the bottom..... In the mean time, will a little rust be harmful to the
wort?
We know what the mom's are going to say but I took the plunge and bought a 10
gal SS pot for precisely the same reason. However, now that I have gotten
used to two kettle brewing, I can't part with the rusty old one. I use it
for mashing and the new one for boiling.
As I can't tell ale from lager, I couldn't be expected to notice a little
rust in my beer but I suspect most of the moms wouldn't either.
>From: pyle@intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
>It is very possible that work will commence in this area and
produce the pure dry yeast that you seek, but it will take $$$'s.....
> The government obviously isn't going to invest the research money (they've
got better things to do with your money),.....
I hadn't noticed.
js
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1992 23:42:49 -0600
From: nate@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Subject: Cat's Meow Steam Beer (page 42)
Greetings,
I would like to thank Clay Phipps (hplabs!garth!phipps) for his excellent
Anchor Steam-Style Amber recipe in the Cat's Meow. We brewed this as our
fourth batch just before Christmas and it was by far our best yet.
I without a doubt that the quality of our beers has improved with the
purchase of a glass carboy for use as a secondary. My next brewing
purchase will no doubt be a wort chiller. I'll probably wait until
next year to start full mash recipes. Watching Bill Seliger, who got
me into brewing in the first place, do a full mash twice a month is
enough for me right now.
Last week Bill told me about an unofficial tasting here in Evanston, IL,
and encouraged me to enter a beer. Believe it or not, the steam-style
beer came in second, only to Bill's light lager. But by far the best
part of the evening was getting to meet the judges. I also met the
owner of Goose Island brewery and a few other home brewers.
Just a new brewer's recent experience.
nate
Nate Berggren
"so funky I can smell it" - Buddy Guy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 22:18 CST
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Frustrated and Nonplussed
I'm frustrated and nonplussed. No, not about that. It's about the
way hops are described in a beer.
As you know, all beers have a hop profile. This consists of
bitterness, hop flavor and hop aroma. Yet when you describe a beer to
another homebrewer, what do you do? It usually goes something like this:
" . . . Well sir, the <HBU/AAU/IBU> was 25 and it had some hop
flavor and alot of hop nose . . ."
--- OR ---
" . . . boy I'lltellyawhat, the <HBU/AAU/IBU> was 10 but I
really wanted alot of hop flavor and aroma . . ."
I'll go one step further. Lets look at the AHA Style Definition
Chart. Calm down! I'm not ripping the AHA nor am I putting them on a
platform. I'm just using them as an example since most of us here in the
colonies are familiar with it.
If you were to brew a doppelbock and decided to use the AHA SDC as a
reference, you would see, among other things, an IBU rating of 17 - 27.
Thats all well and good for bitterness, but what about hop flavor and hop
aroma? If you want that information you must seek out the Rules and Regs
narrative of that style, which states: ". . . low hop flavor OK . . . no
hop aroma . . .".
See what I'm getting at? We use numerical scales for bitterness,
yet we have to resort to narrative for flavor and aroma. Wouldn't it be
great if we could say:
". . . Reggie, old boy! As you were quaffing my latest
creation, did you partake of the hops in this sustaining beverage? The
<HBU/AAU/IBU> was 20, the hop flavor was 7.5 and the hop aroma was a
bequiling 12! . . ."
--- OR ---
". . . HOY! Check this out! It's got a Total Hop Profile of
20 - 7.5 - 12. It kind of snuck up and ripped my face off! . . ."
With me now? What would it take to devise a numerical scale for hop
flavor and a separate scale for hop aroma? What are the chemical
compounds which provide the flavor and aroma? They're not phantoms. If
you can taste/smell it, then surely you must be able to isolate and
identify it. From that point its all down hill. Kind of.
Just alittle something to chew over the weekend. Email? You can do
me publicly or you can do me privately. It don't matter.
chris campanelli
PS. I'm not a science weenie so don't nit-pick the minor details. Try to
see the big picture here.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #843, 03/13/92
*************************************
-------
