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HOMEBREW Digest #0828
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 92/02/20 03:09:13
HOMEBREW Digest #828 Thu 20 February 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Starch ferments (Conn Copas)
CAMRA... (GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 19-Feb-1992 0824)
#825 please, please? ("Daniel J. Graham")
Berliner Weisse tasting results (Aaron Birenboim)
Cold Break (charlto)
cold break (Brian Bliss)
light on fermenting carboy (Sterling Udell)
Jasper's Home Brew Supply, Litchfield NH - Moving (donmoyer)
160 (was 200) British Beers (Desmond Mottram)
Re: Using Spent Grains (John DeCarlo)
Heat Yield and Measure Conversion (BOEGE)
refractometers et al. (JOE)
HBD vs. rec.crafts.brewing? (The Rider)
Help!! I'm trapped in a non-brewery! (Eric Mintz)
Dry Hopping Sanitation ("John Cotterill")
roasted grains (Aaron Birenboim)
Batting .250 (infected hop plugs?) (Eric Mintz)
goodbye (Dan Feldman)
Re: cold break (Walter H. Gude)
Aluminum and Alzheimer's Disease (S94WELKE)
Send submissions to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 12:36:04 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas@loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Starch ferments
I'm afraid to say that I am confused and, consequently, less relaxed. All these
recipes for bread wine, sake, etc, appear to employ starch as an energy source
for yeast, which leads one to question why we brewers are so fussy about
conversion to sugars during mashing. Even the making of bread itself is a
classic example of something some brewing texts would claim should not work.
Surely the yeasts being employed are not especially different. Are there
enzymes present in rice/wheat flours which do convert starch over a wide range
of temperatures ?
- --
Loughborough University of Technology tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : (0509)610815
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 08:24:01 EST
From: GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 19-Feb-1992 0824 <mason@habs11.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: CAMRA...
As a member of CAMRA, I was a bit disturbed about the comments made in the HBD
regarding CAMRA Canada. I sent the two complaints that were logged in the
Digest (anonymously and with permission) to CAMRA for comment. Below is their
reply, exactly as scanned and OCRed. I have added notations to represent the
logo and signature where they occurred, and have corrected the footer to account
for the inability of the OCR package to interpret the strange font and color
correctly. If anyone wishes, I will post the letter I sent to CAMRA as well.
I have been a happy member, and what they say is true - the newspaper (What's
Brewing) is good, albeit topical. Since I plan to spend as much time there as
possible, I think it is useful. Those who don't go to the UK may not.
Cheers...Gary
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Campaign for
< LOGO > Real Ale
Limited
Gary F Mason llth Feb 1992
2 Crestwood Lane
Milford
NH 03055
USA
Dear Mr Mason,
Thank you for your letter about CAMRA Canada.
I must point out that CAMRA Canada has no organisational link with
CAMRA UK. We are entirely separate organisations, although we
recognise them as a 'sister organisation' with shared aims. Many
members of CAMRA Canada are also members of CAMRA UK.
I am sorry if people have had difficulties dealing with them.
CAMRA UK is large enough to have a full-time staff, whereas CAMRA
Canada, I believe, is still run entirely by volunteers.
I very much doubt that CAMRA Canada are 'a bunch of swift-talking
con artists'. We understand from individual members over there
that they are having problems at the moment, but I doubt this is
due to any deliberate intention to take people's money.
I'd be grateful if you could publicise the above through the
computer network, for the benefit of those interested.
You might also tell people that joining CAMRA UK costs only
fourteen pounds per year, for which you get our sixteen page
monthly paper airmailed - reliably! Pretty good value, we think.
Thanks for writing. I appreciate your concern.
Yours sincerely
< SIGNATURE: Stephen Cox >
Campaigns Manager, CAMRA UK
Registered Office: 34 Alma Road, St. Albans, Herts, ALl 3BW Tel: 0727 867201;
Fax: 0727 867670
Company Secretary: Iain Dobson A non-profit making company limited by
guarantee. Registered in England No. 1270266
------------------------------
Date: 19 Feb 92 08:32:00 EDT
From: "Daniel J. Graham" <graham@drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: #825 please, please?
My VAX was down and I missed issue 825, and can't seem to get a good
internet path to the archive machine. Could some kind soul please send me
a copy? I'll dedicate my first born stout to you...
Thanks,
Dan Graham
graham@drcvax.af.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 08:15:40 MST
From: abirenbo@rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Berliner Weisse tasting results
I went to the Unfermentables meeting last night (denver area brew club).
I got some feedback on my "Berliner" weisse:
This was a beer soured a la papazian, except that i added
some acidopholis capsules to the souring mash. I believe that
most of the souring was due to the bacteria in the capsules.
Many commented that the sourness was in fact different from
the usual sour mash. Different, but not necessarily better or worse.
All said the beer was clean, which is unusual for sour mashes,
a good point for my technique.
Most said the souring (caried out to pH 3.4) was about right on,
although i found it to be a bit too sour for my taste.
Most said the hop level was about right on (1 oz. hollertau boil).
The only consistent criticism was a grainy flavor. This could be
due to many things. It may just be that letting the GRIST sour
extracted something nasty from husks, etc. My fix for that problem
would be to sparge, then sour the LIQUOR with pills ONLY, no
raw grain. I will most likely do this for my next experiment.
I am trying to plate the capsules out now, to try and seperate
bacteria strains out. If there are any differences i can see
in the colonies, I will sour some wort from a single colony,
and taste/smell the results. I will use only the most pleasing
sour wort for the next souring.
Another souring method id to use a prolonged acid rest in the
mash (like 3-5 days at 90F). One fellow said the best sour mashed
beer he had was made with this technique.
Now we fall to the discussion with another guy trying to make
a berliner weisse. he had seen the brewery in germany.
He said they pitch a pure Lactobcillus Delbreuckii along with a
standard ale yeast. If anybody knows were i can get a pure
L. Delbreuckii, let me know.
One other interesting part of the brewery was that they put
the hops in the MASH! This allows them to use more wheat.
My recipe had little wheat, it was about like:
5 lbs. pale
1 lb munich
1 lb barley flakes
2 lb wheat malt
Next time i will try something more like
3.5 lbs pale
1 lb wheat flakes
2.5 - 3 lbs wheat malt
1.5 is oz hollertau IN THE MASH
Oh one more thing on the pills. They do not smell much like
other sour mashes. I cultured some up in a test tube and smelled
it. It has a grainy putridness, but not as strong as a sour mash.
It is possible that the"grainy" cahracter was due to the bacteria
strain. I will try to see if culturing up from single cells
will yield a clean strain of lactic acid producer.
And, of course, I'd like to hear about any sour mash/sour
beer experience anyone has had.
aaron
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 09:33:36 CST
From: charlto@ccu.UManitoba.CA
Subject: Cold Break
jeorg@chs.com (Houck) asked about cold break. My personal feeling is that
you should try to get as much of the trub as you can comfortably get
(without worrying) out of the fermentor before pitching the yeast. For some
people, this means that they don't remove any of the trub (I think they
worry too much about infection, but to each their own...). In general, it
seems that it takes at least 30 minutes for the majority of the trub to
precipitate after cooling (this is based on my own observations). As long
as the wort is cool (below 70F, is my recommendation), you shouldn't have
too much problem letting it sit in a sealed carbouy for a couple of hours.
NOTE: I did not say that you *can't* get an infection. You certainly can
get infections, but I've been using this method for a couple of years without
any problem at all. After the trub has settled, you can rack it off. I
lose about 1/2 gallon of wort using this method. I've heard that the wastage
can be recovered by filtering it and using it for priming, but I've never
tried it (a 10% loss of extract and hop utilization is not significant to me).
In actual fact, I cool my wort down to about 45 degrees F and then let it
sit in the carbouy for up to a day before I rack and pitch. I then use a
non-blowoff method for fermentation. I've heard rumors that a blowoff method
negates the need for removing the trub, but I find it hard to believe and
have not heard of anyone who has done a side by side comparison. All I know
is that after I started doing this, my beer has improved immensly (the
improvement was better than going to all grain, or switching to liquid
yeast). I will go as far as to say that if you do not use blowoff and
do not make an effort to get rid of a significant quantity trub BEFORE you
pitch the yeast, you will almost certainly have a fusel alcohol problem.
(OK, wait a second while I put on my ring of fire protection -- there we
go, flame away!). I've never used a blowoff method, so I can't make any
rational comments on it (though I do find it fascinating that people claim
that their beer is less harsh using blowoff. I don't buy the hop resin
argument, so maybe it does have something to do with trub...). Anyway,
sorry for the length of this post, but this is something of a religious
topic with me...
Mike
P.S. All unhopped malt extract will produce large quantities of trub when
used. It is not really a function of the quality of the extract.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 11:16:25 CST
From: bliss@csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: cold break
>
> i brewed a extract brew this weekend, chilled the wort fairly quickly
> with an immersion chiller ( <15 mins), and then poured the cool wort
> into the carboy leaving behind a small amount of trub. after about 10
> minutes, when i was going to add the yeast, i noticed a considerable
> amount of matter (protein?) precipitating out of the wort. i added the
> yeast anyway and the matter settled out after about four hours (before
> the yeast took off). the yeast have not stirred up the precipitate and
> i will rack to a secondary after seven days.
> now the questions: should i have let the precipitate drop out first, then
> rack into another carboy, or continue as i have been? is this a sign of
> poor extract? (john bull amber unhopped)
> thanks, jeorg houck, jeorg@chs.com
>
No, it's a sign that you did everything correctly, and got the
boil going really good for at least an hour. With strains of
yeast that take off quickly and vigorously (i.e. most dry yeasts
like whitbread ale/lager, or M&F ale), the yeast will stir up the
trub on the bottom of the fermenter. with these, you should wait
for the trub to settle, then rack to a new carboy, aereate, and
then pitch. If you pitch before you rack, when you return to siphon,
it might bee too late (It's impossible to siphon vigorously fermenting
wort - the CO2 released keeps stopping the sipon, and in this
particular case, the chunks of trub will clog the siphon or any
sort of filter you try to put over it).
Most wyeasts are so slow to take off that you are safe pitching
and then racking later. A friend of mine feels that you should always
do vice-versa, since much of the yeast will settle out with the trub,
but I feel this stuff is mostly dead yeast, and that that the healthy
yeast will stay in suspension. With a lager yeast at cold temperatures,
It will probably never ferment vigorously enough to stir up the
precipitate, but you are still better off racking, because of
"yeast autolysis" (according to Miller), but I have left lagers on
the bed of trub for months, and never noticed a problem. Then
again, most of these batches have had polyclar added.
If I fail to siphon the wort from the trub and it gets stirred up
back into solution, I always use a clarifier - usually gelatin,
but polyclar works great at a low temperature, and I always use
polyclar If I feel that a great deal of tannin made it into the boil
in the form of grain husks not filtered in the sparge.
bb
P.S. you will usually notice significantly more hot break in the bottom
of the fermenter when using hop pellets.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 11:42:35 EST
From: sterling@glorfindel.umcs.maine.edu (Sterling Udell)
Subject: light on fermenting carboy
I recently got a new carboy, and since it came in a box, a method for
ensuring darkness seemed obvious. I cut a ~2" diameter hole in the
bottom of the box, and now when it's fermenting I just invert the box
over the carboy. A perfect fit, with the fermentation lock sticking
out the hole.
I'm sure a little light gets in around the hole, but not much.
Whenever I want to look at the ferment, I can just lift the box. Very
nice. The box isn't even ruined for its original use: the hole isn't
big enough to damage its structure, so I could still store/move the
carboy in it.
Anyway, just my $0.02 worth . . .
String
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division
"Setting New Standards in Brewing Quality"
-- Big Dog's Looker Light Lager
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 13:01:20 -0500
From: donmoyer@ypanic.mko.dec.com
Subject: Jasper's Home Brew Supply, Litchfield NH - Moving
Hello,
As an informational note, Jasper's Home Brew Supply of Litchfield, NH
is moving to Nottingham Plaza, 110 Tracy Lane, Hudson, NH 03051.
The phone numbers will remain unchanged, 800-FOR-BREW and 603-881-3052.
Thanks,
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 18:17:32 GMT
From: des@pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram)
Subject: 160 (was 200) British Beers
After mentioning recipies for 200 British beers, I had several requests for
details, so I'm putting them on HBD instead of direct post so that others
may also enjoy. I got a bit carried away I'm afraid, but there are still 160
recipies for excellent beers in these two books. Prices are in English
pounds and do not include postage and packing.
"Brew Beers Like Those You Buy" by Dave Line
"Great names like Draught Bass, Worthington and Guinness plus dozens of
other great beers. Over 100 famous beers selected from Britain, and beyond,
are included and fullest details given to ensure that anyone, even without
any previous knowlege of brewing, can produce a beer which will do justice
in flavour and quality to the original brew."
ISBN 0-900841-51-6 RRP #4.50,
Argus Books,
Argus House,
Boundary Way,
Hemel Hempstead,
Herts
HP2 7ST
UK
"Old British Beers and How to Make Them" by Dr.John Harrison
"Contains instructions for brewing 60 British Beers ranging from pre-1400
unhopped ales to early 1900 oatmeal stouts." 8 medieval beers (5 unhopped,
using herbs and spices instead), 17 Amber, 23 Brown and 12 Black. Most OGs
are above 50, many over 100 and the highest 140. Includes 10 pages of
historical notes, plus suggestions on home-roasting malts.
ISBN 0 9517752 0 0 Price (approx) #3.30,
Dr. J. Harrison
5 Dorney Reach Rd.
Dorney Reach
Maidenhead,
Berks,
SL6 0DX
UK
Anyone crass enough to suggest I have a financial interest deserves all he
gets :-p
Rgds and happy homebrewing,
Des.
------------------------------
Date: Wednesday, 19 Feb 1992 13:19:19 EST
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Using Spent Grains
On the subject of using spent grains in your bread, I am not sure
the issue of proper grinding was made clear. Any brewing grains
that are not properly ground can crack your teeth (well, some
can). So, whether you want to put the grains in your bread or
your granola or your cookies, please be sure that there are no
hard lumps left in the spent grains.
The last time I asked about ways to use spent grains (about two
years ago, I believe), this was the most important piece of
information I got.
Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
(or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet: 1:109/131
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:31 EDT
From: <BOEGE%UORHEP.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Heat Yield and Measure Conversion
Greetings,
I have an electric stove. Were I to buy a 6 gallon SS stock pot, would
I be able to bring 5 gallons of wort to a boil? I'm not asking for armchair
calculations, I am asking for empirical observations. It seems like most people
who mention boiling a large wort also mention doing so with high BTU devices.
If you have boiled 5+ gallons on a regular electric stove, please let me know.
I would hate to invest in a large brewpot and then have it produce only warmish
wort.
Is there a reference wherein the densities of cooking ingredients are
listed. I have many recipes that give amounts in mass units. I do not own a
kitchen scale, and so I would like to be able to convert masses into volumes. I
am specifically interested in doing said conversion for honey, flour, and sugar.
I realize that densities will vary, but I don't think ballpark conversions are
unreasonable to expect. Thanks, Mr. Schmidling, for the bread recipe. I'll be
sure to give it a try.
Cheers,
Steven J. Boege
"Man is certainly stark mad. He can't make a worm, but he makes gods
by the dozens."
Montaigne
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 16:06:17 -0500
From: chrisbpj@ldpfi.dnet.dupont.com
About a week ago, I brewed a batch of extract/mash weiss bier that was
supposed to make six gallons. Since I don't have a six gallon *glass*
carboy and didn't want to have any leftover ingredients, I figured
I'd make the 6 gallon recipe in a 5 gallon carboy. I knew
under-dilution would make for a thick wort, and figured the alcohol
content would be higher in the fermenter than usual, but I calculated
max alcohol content at around 7 percent, so I figured my yeast should
be fine.
Everything seems fine so far, though a bit slower than usual. The
ferment IS thick, but seems in good shape, and is just finishing
fermentation. I plan to rack to a 6 gallon plastic bucket, dilute to
approx 6 gallons (proper SG), prime, then bottle. Has anybody ever
tried this approach before? As I said, my main concern is that the
higher concentration of alcohol could kill the yeast before it has a
chance to fully ferment all fermentables. If this happens, I could
end up with exploding bottles. Also, I thought the higher
concentration might tend to change the flavor of my brew. Any
thoughts, experiences, etc out there? I'll be bottling shortly, so if
there's interest, I'll let you all know how it turns out.
-Pete
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1992 8:09:13 EST
From: JOE@syd.deg.CSIRO.AU
Subject: refractometers et al.
Date sent: 20-FEB-1992 07:59:57
Greetings from an exiled US Hombrewer in OZ!
1) I inherited a "hand-held-temperature-compensated-optical
refractometer" (whew!) from my wine-making dad. I've been using it
for a while now in place of my hydrometer and I wondered if other
homebrewers have used one. I think its a great tool since it only
uses a drop or two of beer (no waste and no dunking in the carboy etc.)
Mine reads out in degrees Brix (~ percent sugar content by weight I think)
from 0 to 30 with 0.2 gradations. Since its weight % I've just been
subtracting final from initial readings and dividing by two to get alcohol
% by weight (i.e. 14B-4B=10 10/2 ==> 5% by weight). Any experience with
refractometers and a "correct" conversion from Brix to HBD SG would be
appreciated!
2) Any other HBD'ers from Australia out there?
G'day (yes the actually say that here :) )
-
JOSEPH WILLIS BOARDMAN "let dead dogs alone"
Email: joe@syd.deg.csiro.au
Phone: 61-2-887-8884
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1992 13:37:04 -0800
From: mfetzer@ucsd.edu (The Rider)
Subject: HBD vs. rec.crafts.brewing?
Rob,
I discovered that HBD gets posted to r.c.b. This brings about the
question, do other articles on r.c.b get posted to the HBD? And... why is
HBD not a series of individual articles on the usenet?
Just curious if I should stop reading one or the other, since HBD is more
convenient for me personally, but I'd like to get the complete scoop.
Mike
- --------------
Michael Fetzer
Internet: mfetzer@ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet: FETZERM@SDSC
HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 14:41:55 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm@bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: Help!! I'm trapped in a non-brewery!
Dave,
[re: ice jugs in the tub]
That's a great idea for summer!! Thanks for the tip.
- --Eric
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 13:58:28 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Dry Hopping Sanitation
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"
When dry hopping, or pouring the wort over beer after chilling, what is the
best way to sanitize the hops to reduce infections?
JC
johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:04:18 MST
From: abirenbo@rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: roasted grains
Can i make a reasonable choclate or black patent malt by roasting
my pale malt in the oven? If so... what temps... what times.
Does anybody know how to make roasted barley? What kind of barley?
(un-husked?? pearled??) roastin time, temp?
aaron
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:15:42 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm@bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: Batting .250 (infected hop plugs?)
Mike Tavis asks: could hop plugs be infecting his beer?
Hops are a natural disinfectant -- I think you may be on a wild goose
chase. How about your plastic equipment (primary fermenter bucket,
siphon hoses, bottling valve, etc); are they getting scratched up or
opaque? If so, that could be a source of infection. How about your
bottle caps or your bottles? The stopper for your secondary fermenter?
Good luck! Oh, and about being out of HomeBrew: RELAX -- what a great
excuse to run out and by a 6 of <insert your favorite expensive import
here> :-)
- -- Eric
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 14:06 PST
From: Dan Feldman <Feldman@GODZILLA.SCH.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: goodbye
Well, this is it, I finally found a job (with no e-mail facilities
unfortunatly). Thanks to all for all the useful information that
I have recieved over the years. I will miss this forum a lot.
As soon as e-mail facilities are and running at my new place, I will
re-subscribe. Thanks again to all (sigh)...
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 14:39:58 CST
From: whg@tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Re: cold break
I had a similar experience using a John Bull Master Class bitter kit. I got
an amazing amount of cold break about an hour after transfering it to the
carboy and pitching. This was the first use of my new imersion chiller and
figured that was the reason. The beer came out clean as a whistle, but still
has a slight amount of chill haze. Would waiting an hour and then racking off
the cold break cause less chill haze? Would it be worth the infection risk?
Walter Gude
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 21:58 EST
From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Aluminum and Alzheimer's Disease
gEnter your message below. Press CTRL/Z when complete or CTRL/C to quit.
I know this is a bit off the theme of the digest, but it has come up
several times over the last few months. I've reviewed the literature
on Alzheimer's Disease (AD), as part of my medical education. I believe
the jury is IN on aluminum, and the verdict is NOT GUILTY. Several studies
clearly show Al does not directly cause AD. While it is still possible,
other culprits, namely amyloid acumulation and genetics, appear much
more likely to the cause (etiology, in the vernacular). The brain lesions
found in AD do indeed contain Al, but the same levels of Al are found in
normal peoples' brains. Al may contribute to the disease in those who are
susceptible, so the "watch out for demon aluminum" may be valid for those
whose ancestors died of AD. The rest of us can RELAX!
One of the pieces of evidence supporting the genetic origin of AD is
interesting...Down's syndrome victims have a much higher incidence of
AD than the normal population. Since these people have an extra chromo-
some 21, the search for the AD gene has focused there. One attempt has
failed, but the gene can't hide forever.
Sorry for the deep science, but with all the (interesting!) physics
and chemistry that get tossed around this digest, I had to put my $.02
in. BTW, thanks to those who post recipies; I've brewed two and both
were excellent. Also, if anyone wants references for the above,
Email me.
- --Scott Welker, USUHS School of Medicine
"Beer, the doorway to alcoholism." --from a PA turnpike billboard,
put up by the Christian Womens'
Temperance Union
"An alcoholic is someone you don't like who drinks as much as you do."
--Dylan Thomas
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #828, 02/20/92
*************************************
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