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HOMEBREW Digest #0823
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 92/02/13 03:08:39
HOMEBREW Digest #823 Thu 13 February 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
carbonation (Michael Gildner)
Re: Liberty Ale (Rick Larson)
Grain Mills (Brian Batke)
Other uses for crystal malt (Mahan_Stephen)
Re: Homebrew Digest CANCELATION (Kirk Botero)
Measuring Levels, HB info (Norm Pyle)
Re: Freezing hops (Michael J. Tuciarone)
Re: homebrew club responsibility question (John Polstra)
Different Yeast Cultures (Robert Spangle - TCU Department of Chemistry)
Brewclub Liability (Martin A. Lodahl)
Water (Timothy Mavor)
Nutty Idea (C.R. Saikley)
Soda Keg Dispensing help needed (Bob Jones)
Which Irish brewery? (Robert Bradley)
B-Brite and Deversol (Robert Bradley)
Re: Clorine and Iodophor (larryba)
Wyeast storage & STUFF (Paul Yatrou)
Burst WYeast packets and mailorder (Douglas DeMers)
Cutting kegs (martin wilde)
Re Freezing hops (korz)
Measuring levels (korz)
How do I bitter an American Pilsener? (Frank Tutzauer)
Eric M's porter (Eric Mintz)
Xingu beer (Eric Mintz)
Send submissions to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 08:13:50 EST
From: mmlai!lucy!gildner@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Gildner)
Subject: carbonation
Hello,
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 08:17:22 -0600
From: melkor!rick@uunet.UU.NET (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: Liberty Ale
In the 1990 Special Issue on Hops, Quentin B. Smith recommends Chinook at
24 BU, Cascade at 12 BU, Cascade at 9 dry hopped (total 45BU). OG=1.062.
Then, He wins first place in the Pale Ale catagory in the 1991 AHA Nationals.
His recipe uses 14 pounds Klages, 4 oz 40L crystal, 4 oz 90L crystal (and
of course different hops :-). This had a OG=1.062 and TG=1.010. He mashed
all grains for 90 minutes at 150F. Mashed off at 170F, sparged with 170F
water.
Given this I would propose:
Taking Liberty Ale
14 lbs Klages, 2-row Malt
4 oz. 40L Crystal Malt
4 oz. 90L Crystal Malt
1/2 oz. Chinook (12%), 60 minutes
1 oz. Cascade (5.5%), 30 minutes
2 oz. Cascade (5.5%), dry hopped
1 t. Irish moss, 15 minutes
Wyeast 1056 American ale
3/4 cup corn sugar to prime
Mash all grains for 90 minutes at 150F, adjust PH as needed. Mashed off at
170F, sparged with 170F water.
This has a total BU of 43.7. If you don't reach around 1.060, adjust the
dry hopping accordingly.
rick
rick.larson@adc.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 09:22:31 EST
From: Brian Batke <bab@whydah.icd.ab.com>
Subject: Grain Mills
I seem to remember someone asking about the Kitchen Aid grain
mill (that fits on the PTO of your Kitchen Aid mixer) a while back,
but I don't remember seeing any response.
So, has anyone tried it? If so, how well does it work? At $124,
it's pretty expensive.
Also, a while back someone posted a description of an Italian
grain mill he found (and was hoping to get as a wedding present).
Has anyone tried using one of these?
Thanks,
- -----------
Brian Batke
bab@icd.ab.com
Allen-Bradley Co., Highland Hts, Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 07:32:00 CST
From: Mahan_Stephen@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Other uses for crystal malt
Well, this is a little off the main topic, but I thought I should
share.
Last Saturday I was brewing up a brown ale and also involved in
baking some bread. I have been trying grinding some of my own grain
for the bread using my trusty Corona with the plates tightened down.
Anyhow, there I was, grinding my wheat, when I looked over and there sat
the bag of crystal malt. Why not? thought I and I dumped about a cup in
the hopper.
The resultant bread was wonderful. Anyone else tried something
like this, or any comments or suggestions? Oh yeah, bread recipe
available on request, or I will post with sufficient requests.
steve
mahan_stephen@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 8:33:26 MST
From: kir@inel.gov (Kirk Botero)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest CANCELATION
PLEASE CANCEL MY SUSBSCRIPTION
THANKS FOR THGREAT READING!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 08:34:48 MST
From: pyle@intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Measuring Levels, HB info
Micah Millspaw:
Your simple solution to measuring volume in the brew pot can be simplified
even more. He says to measure the inside diameter of the kettle, the depth,
calculate the volume, and then calculate the height for each gallon of
liquid. This is all fine, but I'd use this simpler method: pour a gallon of
water (from an old milk jug) into the pot. Dip your spoon and mark it. Pour
another gallon. Lather, rinse, repeat. This should be at least as accurate
as his method and avoids having to find the calculator that my 15-month-old
has hidden under the sofa, behind the washer, etc.
Bob Hostetler:
You should look at one of the much-talked-about-on-the-homebrew-digest
(MTAOTHBD) brewing bibles. I recommend The Complete Joy of Homebrewing by
Charlie Papazian. There are others - they are all well worth the investment
for the information received.
Norm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 08:28:51 PST
From: tooch@auspex.com (Michael J. Tuciarone)
Subject: Re: Freezing hops
It works for me. Use a tightly closed bag or Ziploc(R) so your
frost-free freezer doesn't dehydrate them, for then you'd wind up
with freeze-dried hops (though I suppose they'd actually work, too).
Since I don't use an entire 2 oz. packet for finishing, the excess
1 to 1-1/2 oz. goes into a Ziploc and into the freezer. I use the
freezer hops for bittering, and I usually buy "fresh" hops for
finishing when I make the next batch, saving the excess, etc.
Come to think of it, although my favored supplier (Fermentation
Settlement in San Jose) takes care to seal their hops in airtight
packages and keep them under refrigeration, I wonder if my frozen
hops aren't actually "fresher" in some ill-defined way.
I'll probably never know.
...---...
Mike Tuciarone Auspex Systems
tooch@Auspex.COM Santa Clara CA 95054
"Who wants to wallow in champagne?" 408-492-0900
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 08:39:12 PST
From: polstra!jdp@uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra)
Subject: Re: homebrew club responsibility question
In HBD #822, hall@buffa.enet.dec.com (Dan Hall) writes:
> If someone "gets into trouble after a meeting", they'd have to be a
> real sh*t to go after the club or the meeting host.
Ah, but you're missing the more likely scenario: Mr. Irresponsible Club
Member gets drunk at a club meeting at your house. On his way home, he
drives into a wall at 73 MPH and buys the farm. His wife (mother,
sister, brother, best friend, dog), understandably, is grief-stricken.
It just doesn't seem right. Here was my husband (son, brother, master)
just yesterday, happy, healthy, productive, bringing home a fat paycheck
every day. And now he's dead. It's not fair. I never liked him
hanging around with all those beer-making drunks anyway. It's THEIR
FAULT he's dead! And now I'm miserable and lonely and suffering. And
bored. And I can't sleep at night and I have a lot of free time, and
I'm going to see if I can make somebody PAY for this injustice!
Get the idea? It's all about the psychology of grief.
Worse, consider what happens if Mr. I. C. Member slams his car into
*somebody else's* car at 73 MPH on his way home, killing or maiming an
uninvolved person. You don't think that person or his survivors are
going to look for compensation?
> Perhaps we ought to draft a release and get members to sign it.
Based on the kinds of wierd court decisions that seem to get made in
personal injury lawsuits, I for one wouldn't trust such a release to
make a bit of difference. It might even be construed as evidence of
prior intent to get Mr. I. C. Member drunk.
A better bet would be to establish a club culture (no, not yeast) in
which Mr. I. C. M. would absolutely *not* be permitted to drive himself
home.
- -- Not a lawyer, not a psychologist, but hey, it's ONLY THE NET!
John Polstra polstra!jdp@uunet.uu.net
Polstra & Co., Inc. ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
Seattle, Washington USA (206) 932-6482
"Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 11:20 CST
From: Robert Spangle - TCU Department of Chemistry <KRAWIEC@gamma.is.tcu.edu>
Subject: Different Yeast Cultures
I am relativly new to the HBD (two weeks) and I have a couple of
questions pertaining to different yeast strains.
I would like to start my own yeast culturing, but I do not know where
to start. I know there are many different strains, but what do you
like out there? How do I get some? Mail order? Local brew shops?
Can anyone think of a good book or reference manual about culturing?
I have always heard that liquid yeasts make your beers taste better
than those little dry yeast packages. Has anyone cultured dry yeast?
Bottoms Up!
Robert Spangle
Texas Christian University
Department of Chemistry
Fort Worth, Texas 76129
Bitnet: Krawiec@TCUCVMS.Bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 10:48:41 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah@PacBell.COM>
Subject: Brewclub Liability
I just can't keep myself out of this. In HOMEBREW Digest #822, Dan
Hall responded to Alex Dietz's previous posting, with:
> ... If someone "gets into trouble
> after a meeting", they'd have to be a real sh*t to go after the
> club or the meeting host.
Spoken as one truly committed to beer and the zymurgic arts, and I
couldn't agree more. HOWEVER, there is no shortage of real sh*ts in
the world ... But I'm frankly more worried about the unfortunate
member's non-brewing next of kin, shocked by the accident and
frightened of the financial impact of a lengthy hospital stay.
They are likely to see us as the agent of the disaster that they're
suffering, and it wouldn't take much of a legal mind to establish a
connection between the plaintiff's admittedly disgusting condition
at the time of the accident, and the normal brewclub activites of
tasting commercial style references, tasting/judging member attempts
to meet a style, troubleshooting clinics, and general social
sipping. Our strength is also our weakness.
Our mature, long-established brewclub has recently begun grappling
with this question, and it frankly gives me the grues. I suspect,
though, that we have a lot of company out there ...
= Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah@pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) =
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 13:53:25 -0500
From: Timothy Mavor <tmavor@pandora.cms.udel.edu>
Subject: Water
After 18 months of extract brewing, I am preparing to shift to
all-grain recipes. Also, since I am in a new location, I am
concerned about my water. Upon receiving a water analysis
from my VERY cooperative and interestd water company, I tried to
compare my ranges with that in Dave Miller's book. Unfortunately,
several of his ions lack ranges as to what is acceptable, or give
answers such as "Large amounts are undesirable" or seemingly
contradictory (at least to me!). If some kind soul would
comment either here or thru email, I would appreciate your input.
All readings are in PPM:
WHAT PPM Comments
- ----------- ----- ---------
Total Alkalinity 45-65
Total Hardness 100-130
Calcium 75-95 Miller says 50-100
Chloride 35-50
Chlorine 1.0-2.0
Flouride 0.8-1.2 Miller says 1-10
Manganese 0.05
Nitrate 1.0-5.0 Millers says <25
pH 7.2-7.6
Silicate 2.0-5.0
Sodium 5.0-10.0
Sulfate 15-25
If you notice any omission of importance, please let me know.
I will be contacting the lab again, for I realize I do need the
carbonate-bicarbonate level.
Thanx!
-Tim
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Mavor | "I am known by many names.......
College of Marine Studies | some call me.........Tim."
Univ. of Delaware |
tmavor@pandora.cms.udel.edu| "You know much that is hidden, O' Tim!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 10:51:33 PST
From: grumpy!cr@uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Nutty Idea
From: slezakl@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU
>I just racked a batch of Hazel-Nut Brown Ale into my carboy and I got a crazy
>idea. What would happen if I put a hazel-nut in each bottle as a form of
>"dry-hopping" (actually "dry-nutting" in this case)? I have been reading the
[snip]
>I might
>add that I added some crushed roasted hazel nuts to the boil for 25 minutes,
Hazel nuts in a brown ale sound like they would add a nice element to the
flavor. I'd be concerned about head retention though. Nuts have oils, and
oils are notorious for destroying a beer's head. You might try adding a
nut to half of your bottles as an experiment.
CR
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1992 11:49 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES@NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Soda Keg Dispensing help needed
I recently put together a draft system using a frig. The frig. has 5 taps
mounted on the front door. The frig. can hold 6 cornelius kegs. A CO2
manifold allows connecting 5 kegs up at the same pressure for dispensing.
Now for the question. I would like to know what your procedures are for
using these drafts systems that insure the best and most consistant beer
quality. I have experienced a few problems with foaming and I am uncertain
about the proper dispensing pressure. I know alot of people who brewers
who have these draft systems but everyone seems to have varying amounts of
problems with them. Someone out there must have nailed down the ABC's for
using these systems. If you have the rule book that works for you I would
really like to read it. I posted a related question several months ago
about CO2 vs natural carbonation differences with no response. Does anyone
have any comparisons of the two methods as far as the taste/mouth feel is
concerned?
Thanks for your help,
Bob Jones
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 15:22:59 -0500
From: bradley@adelphi.edu (Robert Bradley)
Subject: Which Irish brewery?
>From Walpole & Meyers, _Prob_&_Stats_for_Eng_&_Sci_:
"The T distribution was first published in 1908 in a paper by W. S.
Gosset. At the time Gosset was working for an Irish brewery that
disallowed publication of research .... he published his work secretly
under the name 'Student'."
Once again, the art brewing inspires scientific advancement! Does anybody
know if the "Irish brewery" was Guinness?
Rob
(bradley@adx.adelphi.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 15:28:12 -0500
From: bradley@adelphi.edu (Robert Bradley)
Subject: B-Brite and Deversol
The discussion of B-Brite reminded me that when I lived in Toronto,
I used to santize with a product called Diversol. I was under the
impression that it was a chlorinated detergent with a some kind of
agent to promote easy rinsing. Apparently the commercial breweries
used it. Does anybody know what it is? If it's available here in
the USA? I used to re-use it for a total of perhaps 3 or 4 uses.
Near the end of my stay in Toronto a shop-keeper told me it should
never be re-used, but I never had problems.
'Course I only use bleach now (and am just as confused as ever as
regards how much to use and whether to rinse!).
Rob
(bradley@adx.adelphi.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 08:32:28 PST
From: larryba@microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Clorine and Iodophor
The head brewer at Thomas Kemper (Randy Reed) told me that Iodophor does
not kill all wild yeasts and beer unfriendly bacteria. He uses clorine
bleach solution in a spray bottle to hose everything down around the
area he is working in.
I don't know much about iodophor, so take the above statement with a
grain of salt. Randy does seem to know what he is talking about and does
produce some pretty good, if not true to style, beers.
- Larry Barello
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1992 11:04:05 -0500 (EST)
From: YATROU@INRS-TELECOM.UQUEBEC.CA (Paul Yatrou)
Subject: Wyeast storage & STUFF
I have a couple of questions for you HBDers:
1. The local homebrew supply store received a fresh supply
of Wyeast after a long "dry" spell. Of course, I went nuts
and bought way too many packets for my own good. Now I have
5 packets sitting in the fridge (after having used 2 on recent batches).
My question is how long should I expect the yeast to last (two
of them are dated Dec. 19 and the other three are Jan. 21)?
Is three months pushing it? I guess I can always brew a batch
a week for the next month, that ought to do it!
2. There's stuff floating in suspension in the bottles of a recent batch
of pale ale (bottling date Jan. 30). I had a bottle and aside from it tasting
young or "green" I couldn't identify any off-flavours. It looks like
the "stuff" might be yeast which hasn't sedimented but I've never seen this
before in a 1.5 week old bottle so I'm not sure. Here's some more info:
all the bottles have the stuff, it is an all grain batch, Wyeast #1098
(is one of the 3 strains of Whitbread responsible?), dry-hopped it in the
secondary with whole hops (is the stuff hop-related?), O.G. 37, F.G. 6,
used 1 T of gelatin (mixed in pre-boiled and cooled water) 2 days before
bottling. Anyone else have the same experience?
I would like to enter this in an upcoming contest, but not if the stuff
is still floating around.
Thanks in advance,
Paul.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 14:24 PST
From: dougd@uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers)
Subject: Burst WYeast packets and mailorder
>> These were the first duds in about 30 packages we've bought in
>> the past year. Luckily my friend is on good terms with the guys
>> at the brew supply shop, so he'll probably get his money back.
>> Unluckily, we were both itching to brew today, and instead spent
>> the day racking and tinkering with equipment.
>>
>> Grrr... When are they going to fix these damned things?!?
>This has been a real headache for Dave, as I know the new packaging was
>supposed to resolve burst seams. Dave has been hassling with the
>production firm, but in the meantime the solution is probably to try
>starting them while the homebrew shop is open, and well before you
>actually need to brew with the yeast. *All* retailers should refund on
>a burst package, or provide a replacement, and certainly any outfit
>interested in return business will do that.
>
>- --Jeff Frane
I just received an order from Alternative Beverage which included a
package of the new Belgian Ale yeast. Alternative Beverage included a
flyer stating that they would no longer refund/exchange failing
packages of WYeast. They suggested NOT using the method outlined on
the new package (using the heel of the palm, etc.) and instead use a
hammer on the inner pouch!
I don't think I'll be trying their method, but whatever method you use,
caution seems to be the watchword here. I always make a starter days
beforehand; this gives me the opportunity to replace a misfire. No
misfires yet, but who knows? (BTW- AB's price - $3.50 - is no better
than what I can find at the brewshops in the area; why I ordered it
from them is yet another story...)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 23:22:15 GMT
From: martin@daw_302.hf.intel.com (martin wilde)
Subject: Cutting kegs
The Brewer's Warehouse in Seattle (206-527-5047) will take a keg and
perform any operation you want on it. They are doing this for a keg
that I have. For about $150 they will do the following:
Cut the top off
install a nice stainless steel tap (welded)
install a perforated stainless steel bottom (5/32" offset holes) 18 guage
remove the concave from the bottom for better heat distribution
This may sound like a lot of money for what they are doing, but the
work they have done for me on other things has been very high
quality (this is what the do for a living). The welds are seamless
and they have a good turnaround (usually a week). Of course I have
no connection with them other than a highly satisfied customer. I
don't remember what the price is to just have the top cut, but you
can call them at the number mentioned above M-S 11-6 (PST).
martin@daw_302.hf.intel.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 17:51 CST
From: korz@ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re Freezing hops
I freeze my pellet hops but simply refridgerate my leaf hops. I'm
not quite sure why I don't freeze my leaf hops, but now that I
think of it, I can't see why not -- maybe simply because they take
up so much space and my fridge is much bigger than my freezer.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 18:04 CST
From: korz@ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Measuring levels
I did the same as Micah, but put only one mark on my charismatic
wooden spoon -- I filled my carboy with water dumped it in the
brewpot and marked *that* level on my spoon. Currently, I'm only
brewing for single, 5 gallon carboy, blowoff method batches so
I only need one mark. My four 7 gallon glass carboys are on order,
so when they come in, I'll add a 7 gallon carboy mark. The level
will actually be a bit lower than a full carboy because I leave the
hot and cold break in the kettle. The 7 gallon carboys will allow
me to fill 12 bottles for contests and club meetings and still be
able to fill a 5 gallon Cornelius keg -- currently, I'm bottling 12
and then putting the other 3.5 gal in the carboy.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1992 22:49 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: How do I bitter an American Pilsener?
I sometimes use Alternative Beverage's kits, and this weekend I was going to
brew an "American Pilsener"--for my friends who would like a flavorful beer,
but can't handle my stouts, etc. Anyway, the kit uses like 4 lbs. of light
dried malt extract, and bitters with 3/4 oz. of Hallertau. No alpha acid
rating, but I'm assuming 4.5 to 5.5. I understand an American Pilsener is not
supposed to be loaded up on hop bitterness, and also 4 lbs. of DME is not a
lot, but what bothers me is this: Normally, the kit uses Wyeast 2007, Pilsen
Lager yeast, but they were out and substituted Wyeast's Bohemian Lager yeast.
While the Bohemian Lager is probably a better yeast, I noticed in my stockpile
of literature that the Bohemian Lager's attenuation is only 69-73%, and it
ferments "clean," but with a "rich residual maltiness" which I interpret as
meaning "malty but sweet." Now malty is fine, but I HATE sweet beers, so I'm
worried that 3/4 oz. of Hallertau may not be enough bittering hops. Normally,
just to be safe, I would tweak the hops a little bit. But I have no
experience with this yeast, and I also have no experience brewing beer with so
little extract. So on the one hand, I'm afraid I'll make beer that is too
sweet (for me at least), and on the other hand I'm afraid that if I jack up
the hops a bit I might produce the Bitter Beer from Hell (which I would
probably drink, but my friends would hate). So help me out: I have plenty of
hops on hand, so I can get any desired IBU. What should I do? The details
are about 4 lbs. of light DME, a little bit of specialty grain, some Saaz
finishing hops, and a starting estimate of 3/4 oz. of Hallertau using Wyeast's
Bohemian Lager. Like I said, I wanted to brew this weekend, so if you can get
an answer into the Digest by Friday, cool. Otherwise, email me and I'll
report back.
Hell, maybe I should just throw in some black patent and make a porter....
Only kidding.
I thank you and my beer thanks you,
- --frank
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 18:36:58 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm@bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: Eric M's porter
Ed Kesicki writes:
At what temp. did you ferment your porter using the Red Star
lager yeast? We have been messing with various ale yeasts and hadn't
considered trying a lager yeast for our porters...however, we ferment
at room temp and were wondering if you might have done this batch at
room temp also. Looking forward to your reply.
I fermented at room temp. I still think the dry lager yeast is much
better then the dry ale yeasts but, since my post, I've had to eat a
little crow. A buddy of mine from San Diego recently brewed a really
fine stout using Wyeast Irish Ale yeast. I though my porter tasted
pretty good until I tasted it side by side with this stout. After a sip
of the stout, all I could taste from my porter was the muddy taste of
that damned dry lager yeast!
All that to say: if you *have* to use dry yeast, I recommend trying the
Red Star lager yeast. If you can see your way clear, by all means, use
the liquid!
[end of crow]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 18:41:36 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm@bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: Xingu beer
Has anybody tried Xingu beer from Brazil? Xingu calls it a "black"
beer. It tastes somewhere between an imperial stout and an Irish stout
with about 1/2 the hops of either. If you haven't yet, give it a taste!
If you have, how would *you* classify it?
Speaking of Brazilian beers, anyone ever hear of Malzbier? Brahma and
Antarctica (both brazilian breweries) make it. I've never been able to
find it in the US.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #823, 02/13/92
*************************************
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